"None4You" wrote:

GM makes you buy a big ass truck to get a decent vehicle , And has
abandoned the entry level car . Because its not profitable enough. They
abandoned building small cars people want. They abandoned the entry level
customer or college grad. They abandoned little cars.


I like my Saturn SL1, gets 36 MPG. I'll likely replace it some day with a Saturn ION.

WEs

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"None4You" wrote:

GM makes you buy a big ass truck to get a decent vehicle , And has
abandoned the entry level car . Because its not profitable enough. They
abandoned building small cars people want. They abandoned the entry level
customer or college grad. They abandoned little cars.


I like my Saturn SL1, gets 36 MPG. I'll likely replace it some day with a
Saturn ION.

WEs

actually, the market that the american car makers abandoned was two-fold -
small cars (like the rambler metropolitan), and small high end cars - there
is no reason why we can't make cars as nice as Porsche, but we dont' want
to. So, if you look at the profit margins, who is raking in the money?
Porsche (they just bought 75% of VW when the stock market tanked) - why
doesn't GM make a BMW killer? who knows, but it's not that it can't be
done.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Bill Noble wrote:

(snip)
- why
doesn't GM make a BMW killer? who knows, but it's not that it can't be
done.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

In a way they do, the Caddie STS, also Chrysler has the 300C. Both have
bleeding edge suspensions and powertrains that a US baby boomer like me
could only dream of in our youth.

Problem is, too many US consumers want a rocket ship for the price of a
bicycle (Wally world understands that).

If BMW had only the US market to sell into they would be a very small
company. It seems ironic to me that the STS, 300C and to a lesser
extent Mustangs sell well to the "beautiful people" in Europe. In the
first two there is no "status symbol" only the love of a good driver,
powered by a pushrod V8 thunderlump. The "Stang" is simply an icon over
there.

About Detroit... I have a hard time blaming the worker(UAW), we used to
have Harvester in Moline. If you're paid a handsome wage to put parts in
a turret lathe that someone else set up and "marked" the dials for you,
then comes by periodically to check your parts, "AND THEN" hands you a
Journeyman's card, what the he** are you supposed to know?

If I blame the UAW at all it's for not jealously guarding the skilled
crafts and thus losing them.

The real sad deal is that Detroit management is more fit for "pounding
sand" than the folks on the line.

Oh BTW... I don't think big Exec wages and bennies are "bad for the US"
(I think of that as a "big tip"). But it does tell me something of the
Execs MANNERS for taking that "big tip".

Lastly, it was horrible when those middle aged folks from Harvester
began showing up in job shops in the late 70s looking for work, they had
been given no clue... SAD, VERY SAD...

Matt

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:14:30 -0800, the infamous "Bill Noble"
scrawled the following:

actually, the market that the american car makers abandoned was two-fold -
small cars (like the rambler metropolitan), and small high end cars - there
is no reason why we can't make cars as nice as Porsche, but we dont' want
to. So, if you look at the profit margins, who is raking in the money?
Porsche (they just bought 75% of VW when the stock market tanked) - why
doesn't GM make a BMW killer? who knows, but it's not that it can't be
done.

Hell, given a few more years of production, Zastava Automobil (makers
of the famous Zastava Koral, aka: the Yugo) could have built a BMW
killer. Austrian and German engineering are waaaaay overrated in this
country, as far as vehicles go.

---
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight
very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday.
--John Wayne (1907 - 1979)

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:14:30 -0800, the infamous "Bill Noble"
scrawled the following:

actually, the market that the american car makers abandoned was two-fold -
small cars (like the rambler metropolitan), and small high end cars -
there
is no reason why we can't make cars as nice as Porsche, but we dont' want
to. So, if you look at the profit margins, who is raking in the money?
Porsche (they just bought 75% of VW when the stock market tanked) - why
doesn't GM make a BMW killer? who knows, but it's not that it can't be
done.

Hell, given a few more years of production, Zastava Automobil (makers
of the famous Zastava Koral, aka: the Yugo) could have built a BMW
killer. Austrian and German engineering are waaaaay overrated in this
country, as far as vehicles go.

---

last time I was in the market for a car, I drove the small cadilac -
horrible uncomfortable car at any price - I ended up with another german
car - not because it goes fast (after all, stuck in traffic, all cars go the
same speed) but because it was comfortable - though I don't think I'll be
getting another convertible any time soon. Give me a car with excellent
seats, good interior layout, tight and accurate suspension and excellent
fit, finish, and reliability - don't try and pawn off a miniaturized land
yacht with a big engine as the same thing. I tried the Vette - feels like a
big car, didn't like it (though it was really fast). I can't believe that
my tastes are all that unique. There is a segment of the market that
doesn't like to trade a car every 3 years (I prefer "never"), which will pay
for quality and reliability (as opposed to fancy chrome and big wheels), and
which doesn't require something that can drag a small house around.

If I want a land yacht, I can drive my 59 cad - when I want to go to work, I
certainly don't need that sized car (and it isn't all that comfortable
anyway)


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Bill Noble wrote:

(snip)
last time I was in the market for a car, I drove the small cadilac -
horrible uncomfortable car at any price - I ended up with another german
car - not because it goes fast (after all, stuck in traffic, all cars go the
same speed) but because it was comfortable - though I don't think I'll be
getting another convertible any time soon. Give me a car with excellent
seats, good interior layout, tight and accurate suspension and excellent
fit, finish, and reliability - don't try and pawn off a miniaturized land
yacht with a big engine as the same thing. I tried the Vette - feels like a
big car, didn't like it (though it was really fast). I can't believe that
my tastes are all that unique. There is a segment of the market that
doesn't like to trade a car every 3 years (I prefer "never"), which will pay
for quality and reliability (as opposed to fancy chrome and big wheels), and
which doesn't require something that can drag a small house around.

If I want a land yacht, I can drive my 59 cad - when I want to go to work, I
certainly don't need that sized car (and it isn't all that comfortable
anyway)


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

I think the STS"V" is more to the driving flavor of the older 325is
series with some whupass under the hood. The 300C is fashioned more like
the AMG but not as powerful (still silly fast for 4200# though).

Also the STS has its' own chassis that were built in europe (don't know
about now) and is available on no other GM vehicle. Cosidering the
weight it supports I think it's better than the vette.

Haven't heard much about the fit and finish of these two but everyone
seems to think the interiors are cheezy??? They're DRIVERS... (none of
this 8 way passenger seat nonsense).

I do wonder about the caddie (all) interior layouts.. My wifes' DTS is
horrible. But it's FWD and her 05 300C was RWD (I TOLD HER she have
trouble in the snow) and she is happy??? I really didn't Like the 300C
at first (passenger seat = no good, driver = good). I told the Caddie
guy to test drive the 300 with the windows down and everything turned
off (car had 89,000 miles), he came back amazed, no squeaks or rattles
just the thump of the tires and whisper of the air.

Matt