I've been reading a few things (mainly catalogs) to select some cutting
tools. I'm particularly interested in sets of carbide insert tool
holders.

Does anyone have any links to resources for various standard tool
(insert) dimensions, including rake angles, front clearances, etc. (all
the good buzzwords I've been picking up in preparation for picking up a
lathe).

I've seen references to designators like "CCMT 06" inserts, but I don't
know what the specs on those are, or what particular metals/operations
they would be suited for.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Rube Goldberg is alive and working for Microsoft.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:46:08 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
wrote:

I've been reading a few things (mainly catalogs) to select some cutting
tools. I'm particularly interested in sets of carbide insert tool
holders.

Does anyone have any links to resources for various standard tool
(insert) dimensions, including rake angles, front clearances, etc. (all
the good buzzwords I've been picking up in preparation for picking up a
lathe).

I've seen references to designators like "CCMT 06" inserts, but I don't
know what the specs on those are, or what particular metals/operations
they would be suited for.
--------------
If possible stick with the TPU/TPG holders.

TPU/TPG inserts are dirt cheap. Unless you are in high volume
production using exotic materials the other inserts will not be
cost effective. Coatings are also marginal for home shop use.
Use C6 grade for steel and C2 for everything else. You can even
get mill cutters that will use the TPU/TPG [u = unground, G =
ground] inserts.

One place to start is
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=159&PMCTLG=00
an example price {cheaper on sale and in the 10 pack}
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=164&PMCTLG=00

for the holders see
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=171&PMCTLG=00

end mills
http://tool.wttool.com/search?p=Q&ts...ng&isort=score


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On 2008-10-29, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
I've been reading a few things (mainly catalogs) to select some cutting
tools. I'm particularly interested in sets of carbide insert tool
holders.

Does anyone have any links to resources for various standard tool
(insert) dimensions, including rake angles, front clearances, etc. (all
the good buzzwords I've been picking up in preparation for picking up a
lathe).

Get a copy of MSC's catalog "the Big Book", which includes
tables from at least two makers of inserts in the introduction to the
carbide insert portion of the catalog.

You might also find the same information on their web site, or
on the web sites of the makers (like Valenite.)

I've seen references to designators like "CCMT 06" inserts, but I don't
know what the specs on those are, or what particular metals/operations
they would be suited for.

It is all in those tables.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
...
I've been reading a few things (mainly catalogs) to select some cutting
tools. I'm particularly interested in sets of carbide insert tool
holders.
snip

You would be better off with HSS and learn to grind you own cutting bits.
Carbide has it's uses but there are things you can do with HSS that carbide
won't do and you need a quantum leap in rigidity to use carbide without
severe problems. Trust me on this!

Paul,
I must second Buerste's response. The use of all carbide tools requires
power and rigidity in the machine. So, if you are envisioning a small
machine, 12" swing and under, stick to HSS. I use carbide on my 18 x 54 L&S,
but not on my 13 x 40 or my 10 x 40 SB. I only use HSS on both my small
machines. All 3 lathes are in absolutely top condition. When it comes to
HSS, always choose a cobalt alloy like M35 or M42. They perform much better
with all materials.
Steve

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
...
I've been reading a few things (mainly catalogs) to select some cutting
tools. I'm particularly interested in sets of carbide insert tool
holders.

Does anyone have any links to resources for various standard tool
(insert) dimensions, including rake angles, front clearances, etc. (all
the good buzzwords I've been picking up in preparation for picking up a
lathe).

I've seen references to designators like "CCMT 06" inserts, but I don't
know what the specs on those are, or what particular metals/operations
they would be suited for.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Rube Goldberg is alive and working for Microsoft.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 23:33:01 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:


I've seen references to designators like "CCMT 06" inserts, but I don't
know what the specs on those are, or what particular metals/operations
they would be suited for.
--------------
If possible stick with the TPU/TPG holders.

TPU/TPG inserts are dirt cheap. Unless you are in high volume
production using exotic materials the other inserts will not be
cost effective. Coatings are also marginal for home shop use.
Use C6 grade for steel and C2 for everything else. You can even
get mill cutters that will use the TPU/TPG [u = unground, G =
ground] inserts.

One place to start is
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=159&PMCTLG=00
an example price {cheaper on sale and in the 10 pack}
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=164&PMCTLG=00

for the holders see
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=171&PMCTLG=00

end mills
http://tool.wttool.com/search?p=Q&ts...ng&isort=score


Excellent post.

This assumes his machine can take a cut heavy enough to justify
carbide

Gunner

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:36:04 +0100, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Paul,
I must second Buerste's response. The use of all carbide tools requires
power and rigidity in the machine. So, if you are envisioning a small
machine, 12" swing and under, stick to HSS. I use carbide on my 18 x 54 L&S,
but not on my 13 x 40 or my 10 x 40 SB. I only use HSS on both my small
machines. All 3 lathes are in absolutely top condition. When it comes to
HSS, always choose a cobalt alloy like M35 or M42. They perform much better
with all materials.
Steve

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
...
I've been reading a few things (mainly catalogs) to select some cutting
tools. I'm particularly interested in sets of carbide insert tool
holders.

Does anyone have any links to resources for various standard tool
(insert) dimensions, including rake angles, front clearances, etc. (all
the good buzzwords I've been picking up in preparation for picking up a
lathe).

I've seen references to designators like "CCMT 06" inserts, but I don't
know what the specs on those are, or what particular metals/operations
they would be suited for.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Rube Goldberg is alive and working for Microsoft.


interrupted cuts, like cutting over a drilled hole, are the death of
carbide.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 03:05:59 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 23:33:01 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:


I've seen references to designators like "CCMT 06" inserts, but I don't
know what the specs on those are, or what particular metals/operations
they would be suited for.
--------------
If possible stick with the TPU/TPG holders.

TPU/TPG inserts are dirt cheap. Unless you are in high volume
production using exotic materials the other inserts will not be
cost effective. Coatings are also marginal for home shop use.
Use C6 grade for steel and C2 for everything else. You can even
get mill cutters that will use the TPU/TPG [u = unground, G =
ground] inserts.

One place to start is
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=159&PMCTLG=00
an example price {cheaper on sale and in the 10 pack}
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=164&PMCTLG=00

for the holders see
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=171&PMCTLG=00

end mills
http://tool.wttool.com/search?p=Q&ts...ng&isort=score


Excellent post.

This assumes his machine can take a cut heavy enough to justify
carbide

Gunner
=========
Good point. Big benefit for the newby is this eliminates the
need to grind your own HSS tools, which for home shop use are
most likely an even better choice.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:36:04 +0100, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:
snip
When it comes to
HSS, always choose a cobalt alloy like M35 or M42. They perform much better
with all materials.
snip
---------
Even here there are differences of opinion. High cobalt tooling
is much more expensive, harder to grind, and more brittle than
plain M2. While it does offer longer life and allow higher
speeds this is seldom a consideration for the typical home/hobby
shop. Unless you are wearing more tooling out than you break, M2
is the way to go.

A good combination for the typical home shop lathe is a small [4
X 36 / 6 ] belt/disk sander with "blue" belts and disks, and M2
tool bits. Enco typically has 1/4 square M2 bits on sale for 10$
or less in quantities of 10. Grinding your own tool bits allows
you to put the much greater back/side rake the typical home shop
lathe is "happier" with on the tools.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:36:04 +0100, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:
snip
When it comes to
HSS, always choose a cobalt alloy like M35 or M42. They perform much
better
with all materials.
snip
---------
Even here there are differences of opinion. High cobalt tooling
is much more expensive, harder to grind, and more brittle than
plain M2. While it does offer longer life and allow higher
speeds this is seldom a consideration for the typical home/hobby
shop. Unless you are wearing more tooling out than you break, M2
is the way to go.

A good combination for the typical home shop lathe is a small [4
X 36 / 6 ] belt/disk sander with "blue" belts and disks, and M2
tool bits. Enco typically has 1/4 square M2 bits on sale for 10$
or less in quantities of 10. Grinding your own tool bits allows
you to put the much greater back/side rake the typical home shop
lathe is "happier" with on the tools.



And, one learns "empathy" with the cut. Carbide is so impersonal.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:19:12 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:36:04 +0100, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:
snip
When it comes to
HSS, always choose a cobalt alloy like M35 or M42. They perform much
better
with all materials.
snip
---------
Even here there are differences of opinion. High cobalt tooling
is much more expensive, harder to grind, and more brittle than
plain M2. While it does offer longer life and allow higher
speeds this is seldom a consideration for the typical home/hobby
shop. Unless you are wearing more tooling out than you break, M2
is the way to go.

A good combination for the typical home shop lathe is a small [4
X 36 / 6 ] belt/disk sander with "blue" belts and disks, and M2
tool bits. Enco typically has 1/4 square M2 bits on sale for 10$
or less in quantities of 10. Grinding your own tool bits allows
you to put the much greater back/side rake the typical home shop
lathe is "happier" with on the tools.



And, one learns "empathy" with the cut. Carbide is so impersonal.

-----------------
For grins, take piece of high carbon steel like a file or a tap
and grind a lathe tool, taking care not to "pull" the temper.
Run the lathe slow and try taking a cut.

Just as a HS tool will frequently give a better surface finish
than a carbide tool, a high carbon tool will frequently give a
better finish than a HS tool.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

Lots of good advice here. Thanks.

The lathe will be arriving in a few weeks, so I still have some time to
study before beginning production of metal shavings.

A small mill is on its way as well. At some point, I will take a whack
at making tool holders and other jigs when I get bored of simple
turning.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally, I'm against people who give vent to their loquacity by
extraneous bombastic circumlocution.

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:19:12 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:36:04 +0100, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:
snip
When it comes to
HSS, always choose a cobalt alloy like M35 or M42. They perform much
better
with all materials.
snip
---------
Even here there are differences of opinion. High cobalt tooling
is much more expensive, harder to grind, and more brittle than
plain M2. While it does offer longer life and allow higher
speeds this is seldom a consideration for the typical home/hobby
shop. Unless you are wearing more tooling out than you break, M2
is the way to go.

A good combination for the typical home shop lathe is a small [4
X 36 / 6 ] belt/disk sander with "blue" belts and disks, and M2
tool bits. Enco typically has 1/4 square M2 bits on sale for 10$
or less in quantities of 10. Grinding your own tool bits allows
you to put the much greater back/side rake the typical home shop
lathe is "happier" with on the tools.



And, one learns "empathy" with the cut. Carbide is so impersonal.

-----------------
For grins, take piece of high carbon steel like a file or a tap
and grind a lathe tool, taking care not to "pull" the temper.
Run the lathe slow and try taking a cut.

Just as a HS tool will frequently give a better surface finish
than a carbide tool, a high carbon tool will frequently give a
better finish than a HS tool.



The crystal structure is different, high-carbon will take a finer edge...I
think. Why are people obsessed with carbide? For us, we get more speed and
heavier cuts but we are under time constraints. And, I've got a big, lathe
with 10 hp and very ridged QC tooling. I still use HSS for intricate work
other than facing and hogging diameters.

Buerste wrote:



Why are people obsessed with carbide? For us, we
get more speed and heavier cuts but we are under time constraints. And,
I've got a big, lathe with 10 hp and very ridged QC tooling. I
still use HSS for intricate work other than facing and hogging
diameters.

I bought a few carbide lathe bits , wasn't impressed . I can hand grind a
1/4 inch cutter to perform bettter , longer . Only place I prefer carbide is
in the flycutter in my mill . Higher cutter speeds due to the larger
diameter are pretty tough on even cobalt .
--
Snag
'90 Ultra "Strider"
'39 WLDD "Popcycle"
Buncha cars and a truck

Gunner wrote:


This assumes his machine can take a cut heavy enough to justify
carbide
I used them for years on a 10" and later a 12" Atlas lathe, no problem.
You DO want positive rake tooling, though. the negative rake is
definitely for the heavy, production machines.

Jon

On 2008-10-30, Jon Elson wrote:
Gunner wrote:


This assumes his machine can take a cut heavy enough to justify
carbide
I used them for years on a 10" and later a 12" Atlas lathe, no problem.
You DO want positive rake tooling, though. the negative rake is
definitely for the heavy, production machines.

Well ... that depends. I use negative rake holders, but inserts
with the special chipbreaker groove which turns that negative rake into
positive rake. This on a 12x24" Clausing lathe.

And I particularly like the threading inserts with the angled
support anvils to adjust for the helix of the thread being cut.

I go to small (55 degree diamond) uncoated inserts with a very
sharp edge for finish cuts on steel where I care about the finish.
(These were purchased originally for my little Compact-5/CNC lathe, but
turn out to be very nice for certain things on the larger Clausing as
well.

Of course -- when I need to cut something special, I do grind
appropriate tools from HSS or the like.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Oct 30, 10:09*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-10-30, Jon Elson wrote:

Gunner wrote:

This assumes his machine can take a cut heavy enough to justify
carbide
I used them for years on a 10" and later a 12" Atlas lathe, no problem.
* You DO want positive rake tooling, though. *the negative rake is
definitely for the heavy, production machines.

* * * * Well ... that depends. *I use negative rake holders, but inserts
with the special chipbreaker groove which turns that negative rake into
positive rake. *This on a 12x24" Clausing lathe.

* * * * And I particularly like the threading inserts with the angled
support anvils to adjust for the helix of the thread being cut.

* * * * I go to small (55 degree diamond) uncoated inserts with a very
sharp edge for finish cuts on steel where I care about the finish.
(These were purchased originally for my little Compact-5/CNC lathe, but
turn out to be very nice for certain things on the larger Clausing as
well.

* * * * Of course -- when I need to cut something special, I do grind
appropriate tools from HSS or the like.

* * * * Enjoy,
* * * * * * * * DoN.

Part numbers???

On 2008-10-31, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Part numbers???

How many of these things do you want the part number from. I've
moved your question to the top, so I can make what I can supply
interleaved with my original text.

On Oct 30, 10:09*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-10-30, Jon Elson wrote:
Y

Gunner wrote:

[ ... ]

* You DO want positive rake tooling, though. *the negative rake is
definitely for the heavy, production machines.

* * * * Well ... that depends. *I use negative rake holders, but inserts
with the special chipbreaker groove which turns that negative rake into
positive rake. *This on a 12x24" Clausing lathe.

My most commonly used holder is the Aloris BXA-16N -- a
double-ended holder for negative rake inserts -- one for turning, the
other for facing. This fits (of course) the BXA style wedge type
toolpost which I got made by Phase-II.

Insert numbers (from a box I keep on the lathe) -- TNMG-322 C6.

* * * * And I particularly like the threading inserts with the angled
support anvils to adjust for the helix of the thread being cut.

Iscar or Carmex IIRC -- interchangeable lay-down inserts, and
interchangeable angled anvils between the two. The numbers are a
function of the shank size among other things. I use 5/8" shanks to fit
the BXA tool holders.

* * * * I go to small (55 degree diamond) uncoated inserts with a very
sharp edge for finish cuts on steel where I care about the finish.
(These were purchased originally for my little Compact-5/CNC lathe, but
turn out to be very nice for certain things on the larger Clausing as
well.

I can't give you a working part number for these. The holders
are labeled "Tizit", and the inserts are positive rake 55 degree diamond
shaped with 1/4" IC (I think). Before I ran out of the ones which came
with the lathe (but was getting low) someone here on the newsgroups
offered some samples for free. Once I got them, I realized that they
were just exactly what I had hoped, and since nobody else had shown any
interest in them, I bought the whole lot from him. Some ground only for
right-hand turning, some only for left-hand turning, and some for both.

Sorry that I have no part numbers -- they came in plastic bags.
:-)

* * * * Of course -- when I need to cut something special, I do grind
appropriate tools from HSS or the like.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Oct 31, 11:28*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-10-31, Jim Wilkins wrote:
Part numbers???

On Oct 30, 10:09*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
* * * * My most commonly used holder is the Aloris BXA-16N -- a
double-ended holder for negative rake inserts -- one for turning, the
other for facing. *This fits (of course) the BXA style wedge type
toolpost which I got made by Phase-II....
* * * * Insert numbers (from a box I keep on the lathe) -- TNMG-322 C6.
* * * * And I particularly like the threading inserts with the angled
support anvils to adjust for the helix of the thread being cut.
* * * * Iscar or Carmex IIRC -- interchangeable lay-down inserts, and
interchangeable angled anvils between the two. *...
* * * * I go to small (55 degree diamond) uncoated inserts with a very
sharp edge for finish cuts on steel where I care about the finish....
* * * * I can't give you a working part number for these. *The holders
are labeled "Tizit", and the inserts are positive rake 55 degree diamond
shaped with 1/4" IC (I think). *... :-)...
* * * * * * * * DoN.

Thanks. The last time carbide came up 'micrograin' was suggested for
light cuts on old lathes. I have the 1/4" and 3/8" TT sets which I use
on stainless and hard cast iron, but they fail quickly by chipping.

On 2008-11-01, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Oct 31, 11:28*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-10-31, Jim Wilkins wrote:
Part numbers???

On Oct 30, 10:09*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
* * * * My most commonly used holder is the Aloris BXA-16N -- a
double-ended holder for negative rake inserts -- one for turning, the
other for facing. *This fits (of course) the BXA style wedge type
toolpost which I got made by Phase-II....
* * * * Insert numbers (from a box I keep on the lathe) -- TNMG-322 C6.
* * * * And I particularly like the threading inserts with the angled
support anvils to adjust for the helix of the thread being cut.
* * * * Iscar or Carmex IIRC -- interchangeable lay-down inserts, and
interchangeable angled anvils between the two. *...
* * * * I go to small (55 degree diamond) uncoated inserts with a very
sharp edge for finish cuts on steel where I care about the finish....
* * * * I can't give you a working part number for these. *The holders
are labeled "Tizit", and the inserts are positive rake 55 degree diamond
shaped with 1/4" IC (I think). *... :-)...
* * * * * * * * DoN.

Thanks. The last time carbide came up 'micrograin' was suggested for
light cuts on old lathes. I have the 1/4" and 3/8" TT sets which I use
on stainless and hard cast iron, but they fail quickly by chipping.

These are the sets of five (right, sorta-right, center,
sorta-left, and left) which come with allen head screws
(round/countersink combo head) and no carbide anvils under the insert?
I've tried these, and found them to be fairly useless for exactly the
reasons you give. And the price of the inserts is typically greater
than the price of a set of five with inserts).

The good ones -- AXA-16 or BXA-16 if you have the right toolpost
-- even better with the 16-N version of the proper size for your lathe
and the right inserts to match -- give a lot better results.

The presence of the anvil makes a big difference, and the 16-N
holder combines the part which fits the toolpost dovetail with the
insert holders in one hefty lump of forged steel. Toss in the carbide
anvil and you have proper support for the inserts, so they don't tend to
break.

And there are various styles of carbide (C-2 and C-6 are the
most commonly mentioned) one of which is for tough ferrous and hardened
workpieces, and the other better for non-ferrous.

But still -- if the cross-slide and/or the compound flex, you
can have chips from that. I forget whether you mentioned what your
lathe was -- size and make.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2008-11-01, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Oct 31, 11:28 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-10-31, Jim Wilkins wrote:
Part numbers???

On Oct 30, 10:09 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
My most commonly used holder is the Aloris BXA-16N -- a
double-ended holder for negative rake inserts -- one for turning, the
other for facing. This fits (of course) the BXA style wedge type
toolpost which I got made by Phase-II....
Insert numbers (from a box I keep on the lathe) -- TNMG-322 C6.
And I particularly like the threading inserts with the angled
support anvils to adjust for the helix of the thread being cut.
Iscar or Carmex IIRC -- interchangeable lay-down inserts, and
interchangeable angled anvils between the two. ...
I go to small (55 degree diamond) uncoated inserts with a very
sharp edge for finish cuts on steel where I care about the finish....
I can't give you a working part number for these. The holders
are labeled "Tizit", and the inserts are positive rake 55 degree diamond
shaped with 1/4" IC (I think). ... :-)...
DoN.

Thanks. The last time carbide came up 'micrograin' was suggested for
light cuts on old lathes. I have the 1/4" and 3/8" TT sets which I use
on stainless and hard cast iron, but they fail quickly by chipping.

These are the sets of five (right, sorta-right, center,
sorta-left, and left) which come with allen head screws
(round/countersink combo head) and no carbide anvils under the insert?
I've tried these, and found them to be fairly useless for exactly the
reasons you give. And the price of the inserts is typically greater
than the price of a set of five with inserts).

The good ones -- AXA-16 or BXA-16 if you have the right toolpost
-- even better with the 16-N version of the proper size for your lathe
and the right inserts to match -- give a lot better results.

The presence of the anvil makes a big difference, and the 16-N
holder combines the part which fits the toolpost dovetail with the
insert holders in one hefty lump of forged steel. Toss in the carbide
anvil and you have proper support for the inserts, so they don't tend to
break.

And there are various styles of carbide (C-2 and C-6 are the
most commonly mentioned) one of which is for tough ferrous and hardened
workpieces, and the other better for non-ferrous.

But still -- if the cross-slide and/or the compound flex, you
can have chips from that. I forget whether you mentioned what your
lathe was -- size and make.

Good Luck,
DoN.

Good info, but don't skip over the business about micrograin carbides
working better with less-rigid lathes. Traditional C-2 and C-6 can't hold a
candle to some of the micrograins that are actually used for
*high-positive-rake* milling in commercial work.

There was, as of three or four years ago, a real shortage of quality
micrograin carbides in shapes and sizes appropriate for small lathes. I
don't know the situation now. But the materials have impact strength and
chipping resistance that traditional carbides can't match. And they can take
a *very* sharp edge.

--
Ed Huntress

On Nov 2, 9:10*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-11-01, Jim Wilkins wrote:
[carbide problems]
* * * * But still -- if the cross-slide and/or the compound flex, you
can have chips from that. *I forget whether you mentioned what your
lathe was -- size and make.
* * * * * * * * DoN.

It's a 1965 South Bend 10L, leather belt and threaded spindle, from a
trade school where it was mistreated. The 40-position Multifix tool
post is very nice with hand-ground HSS bits but I haven't seen any
dedicated carbide toolholders for it.

HSS has been fine for my home projects, which are usually made from
aluminum, cast & malleable iron, mild steel, drill rod, 12L14 and 303
stainless. I want to understand carbide better for when I use larger
modern machines on 4140 and 4XX stainless in clients' model shops.

Jim Wilkins

On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 04:38:09 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Nov 2, 9:10*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-11-01, Jim Wilkins wrote:
[carbide problems]
* * * * But still -- if the cross-slide and/or the compound flex, you
can have chips from that. *I forget whether you mentioned what your
lathe was -- size and make.
* * * * * * * * DoN.

It's a 1965 South Bend 10L, leather belt and threaded spindle, from a
trade school where it was mistreated. The 40-position Multifix tool
post is very nice with hand-ground HSS bits but I haven't seen any
dedicated carbide toolholders for it.

HSS has been fine for my home projects, which are usually made from
aluminum, cast & malleable iron, mild steel, drill rod, 12L14 and 303
stainless. I want to understand carbide better for when I use larger
modern machines on 4140 and 4XX stainless in clients' model shops.

Jim Wilkins


You can cut either 4140 or stainless with HSS quite successfully. In
fact it was the common job shop method of machining nearly all metals
up to the 1970's when I left the business. And probably still is in
the smaller shops today.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

On Nov 3, 10:05*am, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:
....
You can cut either 4140 or stainless with HSS quite successfully. In
fact it was the common job shop method of machining nearly all metals
up to the 1970's when I left the business. And probably still is in
the smaller shops today.

Bruce-in-Bangkok

Agreed, but unless I can postpone the job a day I have to use the
tooling already on the lathe and the metal in the scrap bin.

On 2008-11-03, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Nov 2, 9:10*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-11-01, Jim Wilkins wrote:
[carbide problems]
* * * * But still -- if the cross-slide and/or the compound flex, you
can have chips from that. *I forget whether you mentioned what your
lathe was -- size and make.
* * * * * * * * DoN.

It's a 1965 South Bend 10L, leather belt and threaded spindle, from a
trade school where it was mistreated. The 40-position Multifix tool
post is very nice with hand-ground HSS bits but I haven't seen any
dedicated carbide toolholders for it.

O.K. So you need to get the standard shank insert holders.
What size can your toolpost's holders accept? My BXA can handle up to
5/8" shanks, and I started using left and right shanked insert holders
for negative rake in those. I got a pair of straight ahead (that is 30
degree angle on each side) holders from a eBay auction with 100 inserts
per holder, and those work in the BXA-16N -- but the newer TiN coated
ones which I listed work a bit better for heavy cutting.

Note that the shanked holders from eBay were actually 3/4"
instead of 5/8", so I had to mill 1/8" off of the bottom (*not* the top,
so you keep the cutting point height level with the top of the shank).

Your 10L should be sturdy enough -- perhaps for the AXA size
tools instead, which means that the inserts would probably drop to 222
or 221 size in the TNMB style. Isn't the 10L also called the "Heavy
10"?

HSS has been fine for my home projects, which are usually made from
aluminum, cast & malleable iron, mild steel, drill rod, 12L14 and 303
stainless. I want to understand carbide better for when I use larger
modern machines on 4140 and 4XX stainless in clients' model shops.

O.K. I've used (or abused) carbide inserts on hardened tools,
including the flange of a CAT-30 tool holder to convince it to work in a
quick-change holder for NTMB-30 end mill holders. I was amazed that the
carbide could handle that with no apparent problems.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Nov 3, 7:30*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-11-03, Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Nov 2, 9:10*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-11-01, Jim Wilkins wrote:
[carbide problems]
* * * * But still -- if the cross-slide and/or the compound flex, you
can have chips from that. *I forget whether you mentioned what your
lathe was -- size and make.
* * * * * * * * DoN.

It's a 1965 South Bend 10L, leather belt and threaded spindle, from a
trade school where it was mistreated. The 40-position Multifix tool
post is very nice with hand-ground HSS bits but I haven't seen any
dedicated carbide toolholders for it.

* * * * O.K. *So you need to get the standard shank insert holders.
What size can your toolpost's holders accept? *

The slot is 0.82" high.

My BXA can handle up to
5/8" shanks, and I started using left and right shanked insert holders
for negative rake in those. *I got a pair of straight ahead (that is 30
degree angle on each side) holders from a eBay auction with 100 inserts
per holder, and those work in the BXA-16N -- but the newer TiN coated
ones which I listed work a bit better for heavy cutting.

* * * * Note that the shanked holders from eBay were actually 3/4"
instead of 5/8", so I had to mill 1/8" off of the bottom (*not* the top,
so you keep the cutting point height level with the top of the shank).

* * * * Your 10L should be sturdy enough -- perhaps for the AXA size
tools instead, which means that the inserts would probably drop to 222
or 221 size in the TNMB style. *Isn't the 10L also called the "Heavy
10"?

Yes, it's a lower version of the 13" lathe rather than a higher 9".
This one has worn dovetails so it's a bit loose in the normal work
area and very snug at the ends. It's problems may be typical of old
lathes, which is why I'm asking here.

* * * * O.K. *I've used (or abused) carbide inserts on hardened tools,
including the flange of a CAT-30 tool holder to convince it to work in a
quick-change holder for NTMB-30 end mill holders. *I was amazed that the
carbide could handle that with no apparent problems.

* * * * Enjoy,
* * * * * * * * DoN.

On 2008-11-04, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Nov 3, 7:30*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

* * * * O.K. *So you need to get the standard shank insert holders.
What size can your toolpost's holders accept? *

The slot is 0.82" high.

O.K. Then you can go with the 3/4" high tool shanks at a
minimum. Not quite 7/8" -- but I think that the next size up from 3/4"
is 1" anyway. It sounds as though yours was made to metric dimensions,
20mm plus a bit of spare. :-)

Anyway -- the largest shank you can get to fit is the best to
use.

My BXA can handle up to
5/8" shanks, and I started using left and right shanked insert holders
for negative rake in those. *I got a pair of straight ahead (that is 30
degree angle on each side) holders from a eBay auction with 100 inserts
per holder, and those work in the BXA-16N -- but the newer TiN coated
ones which I listed work a bit better for heavy cutting.

* * * * Note that the shanked holders from eBay were actually 3/4"
instead of 5/8", so I had to mill 1/8" off of the bottom (*not* the top,
so you keep the cutting point height level with the top of the shank).

* * * * Your 10L should be sturdy enough -- perhaps for the AXA size
tools instead, which means that the inserts would probably drop to 222
or 221 size in the TNMB style. *Isn't the 10L also called the "Heavy
10"?

Yes, it's a lower version of the 13" lathe rather than a higher 9".
This one has worn dovetails so it's a bit loose in the normal work
area and very snug at the ends. It's problems may be typical of old
lathes, which is why I'm asking here.

Hmm ... the cross-slide and/or compound dovetails worn? Perhaps
it is time to redo those dovetails before working with carbide -- or
tighten the gibs to work only in the worn center area perhaps while
using carbide.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 09:09:22 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Nov 3, 10:05*am, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:
...
You can cut either 4140 or stainless with HSS quite successfully. In
fact it was the common job shop method of machining nearly all metals
up to the 1970's when I left the business. And probably still is in
the smaller shops today.

Bruce-in-Bangkok

Agreed, but unless I can postpone the job a day I have to use the
tooling already on the lathe and the metal in the scrap bin.

Of course. I thought you were saying that you were going to add
carbide tooling so that you could machine 4140 and/or stainless. I was
just saying that you could machine both materials with (what I
thought) would be the added cost of the carbide tooling.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)