On Jun 9, 8:07*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
...
It will take generations of outbreeding to get rid of the paranoia,
the deep dispair and the cynisism from their gene pool.
Gunner

I know that sad-eyed look of resignation but I think it's only in the
culture. The Russians raised outside their community I've met were
indistinguishable from other Americans.

The real female sniper portrayed in "Enemy at the Gates" was from New
York.

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:22:12 -0700
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:28:49 -0400, Wes wrote:

Trevor Jones wrote:

They work good for their intended purpose, though, which is to provide
a last ditch pokey thing on the end of a shooty thing! :-)

I wonder how well a 9# battle rifle and a bayonet does piercing flexible body armor?

Wes


whats a #9?

a "6#" held upside down?
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:28:14 -0700
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:28:07 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Jun 9, 5:28*pm, Wes wrote:
Trevor Jones wrote:
*They work good for their intended purpose, though, which is to provide
a last ditch pokey thing on the end of a shooty thing! :-)

I wonder how well a 9# battle rifle and a bayonet does piercing flexible body armor?

Wes

You mean 9 pound rifle, right?

I don't have Gunner's experience but I understood body armor to be
protection from blast fragments. The answer to the bayonet is your own
weapon.


military body armor indeed used to be primarily for shrapnel
protection, but its gotten so good, thats its got projectile ratings

And that rating has done some interesting things to the tactics of
those wearing it. You don't turn and run, you scuttle sidewise like a
crab "I'm wearing this wall!" as the E6 told me.

Civilian body armor of course is primarily projectile protection.

the best protection from a bayonet is a tot artillery barrage on the
oncoming enemy troops.

or massed machine guns in enfilade.

What ever works.
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:07:43 -0700
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
Unfortunately for the Russians, experience has taught them not to
get their hopes up. It's almost genetic by now. (In a similar vein, a
friend wrote of getting their house built in Greece a few years ago.
With over two thousand years of dealing with tax laws, tax avoidance
was part and parcel of the planning. Real short form, if you get the
county to sign off on the frame of the building, then that is the
"final" price of the house, and taxes are based on that. Then you
hire someone to finish the work... But they've changed the laws,
again, and now everybody is looking for the edge to get around it,)


The russian experience...indeed. I know a number of emigris from the
old soviet union...Latvia, the Ukraine, Georgia....

ive hung out in russian coffee houses, listened to the old music....

It will take generations of outbreeding to get rid of the paranoia,
the deep dispair and the cynisism from their gene pool.

shrug...

The Bolsheviks provided the one thing the Russian peoples wanted,
which the Social Democrats and the Provisional Government could not
provide: a reason to drink.

The interesting thing I heard on a pod cast a couple weeks back,
the speaker had been in San Francisco on business, and heard Russian
music coming from a Synagogue. He checks it out, it's a reunion of
ex-pat Veterans of the Great Patriotic War, decked out in their
medals, and remembering when they were soldiers once, and young. "Only
in America!" He said it was quite an emotional moment in it's own
right.

sigh

pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:46:34 -0700
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
Im a voracious student of life, and military and geopolitical history.
Ive talked to many russians , most whom were military in both the
Great War, and many all the way through Afghanistan. One of my
buddies...a master machinist living in Burbank, was Spetnaz..and in
Afghanistan. Many of my friends are ex-military..from many armies
across the planet. Some served in more than one...shrug.

They talk, I listen, I seperate the bull**** from the facts, and ask
intelligent questions.

There is something about those who have seen the elephant, or
Elefant, or what ever ... that they get along better with each other
than with those who haven't. The German term was Komraden, like
comrade, but with over tones of "Hey, we all went through boot camp
with a DI who could peel paint chew and had a first sergeant who could
eat nails and **** tacks ... "
I got great respect for those who have been there, done that,
would rather have not done either ... regardless of which side they
were on.
Had a landlord once. Got shot on D-Day in Normandy, Bullet right
through the forearm - missed the bones. Enough to get him sent home,
back to the Augsburg area. Milliard mark wound.


tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:59:57 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Jun 9, 8:07*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
...
It will take generations of outbreeding to get rid of the paranoia,
the deep dispair and the cynisism from their gene pool.
Gunner

I know that sad-eyed look of resignation but I think it's only in the
culture. The Russians raised outside their community I've met were
indistinguishable from other Americans.

Indeed...emigres

The real female sniper portrayed in "Enemy at the Gates" was from New
York.


Yes, she was.

Gunner

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:47:01 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:28:14 -0700
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:28:07 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Jun 9, 5:28*pm, Wes wrote:
Trevor Jones wrote:
*They work good for their intended purpose, though, which is to provide
a last ditch pokey thing on the end of a shooty thing! :-)

I wonder how well a 9# battle rifle and a bayonet does piercing flexible body armor?

Wes

You mean 9 pound rifle, right?

I don't have Gunner's experience but I understood body armor to be
protection from blast fragments. The answer to the bayonet is your own
weapon.


military body armor indeed used to be primarily for shrapnel
protection, but its gotten so good, thats its got projectile ratings

And that rating has done some interesting things to the tactics of
those wearing it. You don't turn and run, you scuttle sidewise like a
crab "I'm wearing this wall!" as the E6 told me.

Its also the reason we are having so many people coming back from the
Sandbox sans arms, legs and with brain injuries.

Being involved in explosions that in any other war would have simply
killed you outright, are being survived in this one, due to good
quality body armor. Arms, legs and heads of course are not covered by
this torso armor.



Civilian body armor of course is primarily projectile protection.

the best protection from a bayonet is a tot artillery barrage on the
oncoming enemy troops.

or massed machine guns in enfilade.

What ever works.


Its far far better to kill the enemy at a distance then up close and
personal. The Golden BB is a very real thing.

Gunner

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 23:00:53 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:46:34 -0700
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
Im a voracious student of life, and military and geopolitical history.
Ive talked to many russians , most whom were military in both the
Great War, and many all the way through Afghanistan. One of my
buddies...a master machinist living in Burbank, was Spetnaz..and in
Afghanistan. Many of my friends are ex-military..from many armies
across the planet. Some served in more than one...shrug.

They talk, I listen, I seperate the bull**** from the facts, and ask
intelligent questions.

There is something about those who have seen the elephant, or
Elefant, or what ever ... that they get along better with each other
than with those who haven't. The German term was Komraden, like
comrade, but with over tones of "Hey, we all went through boot camp
with a DI who could peel paint chew and had a first sergeant who could
eat nails and **** tacks ... "
I got great respect for those who have been there, done that,
would rather have not done either ... regardless of which side they
were on.
Had a landlord once. Got shot on D-Day in Normandy, Bullet right
through the forearm - missed the bones. Enough to get him sent home,
back to the Augsburg area. Milliard mark wound.


tschus
pyotr


I met an intersting charector many many years ago..a German fellow
that owned a string of brothels, cafes and hotels..in Vietnam.

After WW2..a huge number of Wermacht and SS troops (mostly SS) wound
up in the Legion de Estrange..the French Foreign Legion and were sent
to French Indo China (Vietnam) to fight against the Viet Minh. After
some injuries he retired and stayed in country to build up wealth.
Ive always wondered what happened to Hans...hope he got out before the
Communists took over..though he certainly paid them enough to leave
his places alone...shrug

My grandmother owned the ancestrial home, up in Houghton Michigan..a
freaking HUGE old 3 story Victorian style home. They had 9 kids, so
built a house to fit them all, in the 20s.

Right across the street from Michigan Tech.

Post WW2, Tech had need of professors, German instructors and so
forth, so brought in a bunch from Germany. By this time, most of the
kids were grown, so Grandma converted much of the upstairs to
apartments and rented them out to the Germans, that side of our family
being German ourselves.

I suspect..Operation Paperclip was involved.....

Many the nights as a wee lad in the 50s and early 60s, I sat talking
to these guys, some of whom had dueling scars etc etc as they sat
drinking schnapps and singing old German battle songs in the huge old
basement. A couple had built a sallie de Arms down there, where they
tutored fencing and sabre as well...got my first blade scar down there
when I didnt parry a slash fast enough. I think I was 10.

Some interesting people in the world, if you take the time to talk to
them.

Gunner


Gunner

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:08:12 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner quickly quoth:

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:47:01 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

And that rating has done some interesting things to the tactics of
those wearing it. You don't turn and run, you scuttle sidewise like a
crab "I'm wearing this wall!" as the E6 told me.

Its also the reason we are having so many people coming back from the
Sandbox sans arms, legs and with brain injuries.

Being involved in explosions that in any other war would have simply
killed you outright, are being survived in this one, due to good
quality body armor. Arms, legs and heads of course are not covered by
this torso armor.

I'm not so sure I'd reeeeealy want to survive if I were missing arms,
legs, and/or had brain injuries/PTSD after a nasty war. Dad caught an
AK round in the steel bottom of his C-123 seat directly below The
Boys. Had it been a wooden seat, he said -he- might not have wanted to
survive that triple dismemberment. (I agreed.)
He was over there in '65 pushing strapped-together crates of chickens
or pigs out on chutes. It took half a dozen Airmen to get the cows to
"voluntarily" jump with their chute harnesses.

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
O
O
O
O
O
O
O!

--
Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is a nobler art of
leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination
of nonessentials. -- Lin Yutang

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:23:26 -0700, Gunner
wrote:



Some interesting people in the world, if you take the time to talk to
them.

As a 9 year old, I learned about smokeless tobacco from displaced
persons ( derogatory - Damned DP's) brought to my area of mid-central
Ontario to clear right-of-way for the transmission line to provide
this modern miracle of electricity, to our kerosene lit homes. These
chaps were accommodated in canvas tent bunk houses - a plain canvas
tent atop four foot, single layer, board walls through the middle of
winter. They worked on the wonderful, native device - snow shoes,
using state of the art axes. A couple years latter, a local
entrepreneur bought the bulk lot of snow shoes from Ontario Hydro, and
sold them off at $2 per pair, and being a childhood friend, my father
was given an early choice. I still have the result of my $2 investment
which only required replacement of the coarser mid section webbing,
and, although I haven't used them in over thirty years, they are ready
should the need arise.
My aunt and uncle employed a young lady as housekeeper in exchange for
room and board for herself and her husband who was employed elsewhere.
This couple remained friends with my aunt for the rest of her life,
crediting her with their success as Canadian citizens.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:01:26 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:08:12 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner quickly quoth:

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:47:01 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

And that rating has done some interesting things to the tactics of
those wearing it. You don't turn and run, you scuttle sidewise like a
crab "I'm wearing this wall!" as the E6 told me.

Its also the reason we are having so many people coming back from the
Sandbox sans arms, legs and with brain injuries.

Being involved in explosions that in any other war would have simply
killed you outright, are being survived in this one, due to good
quality body armor. Arms, legs and heads of course are not covered by
this torso armor.

I'm not so sure I'd reeeeealy want to survive if I were missing arms,
legs, and/or had brain injuries/PTSD after a nasty war. Dad caught an
AK round in the steel bottom of his C-123 seat directly below The
Boys. Had it been a wooden seat, he said -he- might not have wanted to
survive that triple dismemberment. (I agreed.)
He was over there in '65 pushing strapped-together crates of chickens
or pigs out on chutes. It took half a dozen Airmen to get the cows to
"voluntarily" jump with their chute harnesses.

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
O
O
O
O
O
O
O!


EVERY war since Boog smote Ogg with a mammoth knee joint has resulted
in PTSD. EVERY one. Its all part of the man killing other men thingy.
Some worse than others

Someone posted that their dad went nuts as an MP on Guam during
Korea..not a hell of a lot of incoming or dead to pick up on Guam as
an MP

Others went the course in the middle of hard combat and only have a
bad nightmare now and then.

Shrug

As for missing an arm or leg...Ill take that over the Big Dirt Nap

Gunner

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:08:12
-0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :


Civilian body armor of course is primarily projectile protection.

the best protection from a bayonet is a tot artillery barrage on the
oncoming enemy troops.

or massed machine guns in enfilade.

What ever works.


Its far far better to kill the enemy at a distance then up close and
personal. The Golden BB is a very real thing.

Dad said he wasn't worried about the one with his name on it. It
was all those addressed "Occupant" or "Boxholder Local".

I've seen a drawing of a guy with a machine gun, blazing away, and
the caption "I know there's a bullet in here with you name on it! I'll
just keep firing till I find it!"

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

On Jun 12, 9:28*am, pyotr filipivich wrote:
* * * * Dad said he wasn't worried about the one with his name on it. *It
was all those addressed "Occupant" or "Boxholder Local".

* * * * I've seen a drawing of a guy with a machine gun, blazing away, and
the caption "I know there's a bullet in here with you name on it! I'll
just keep firing till I find it!"
pyotr filipivich

I've loaded blanks with people's names engraved on them for presents.
They're safe as long as there aren't TWO such bullets.