Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old February 22nd 08, 08:11 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Lead in solder

I thought the people on this group would be interested int his
article:

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2...21_004346.html

It's about "green" lead-free solder has caused problems. It think the
money quote is this one:

"And if you think this problem is minor, I have been told that just
the cost of changing to lead-free solder stands right now at $280
BILLION and climbing. That cost is borne by all of us."

It even has some metal content...

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Old February 22nd 08, 08:36 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Lead in solder

This is the part of the article thet blows me away

"Most of these are now assembled using solder joints that have no lead in an
effort to save our groundwater and our health. The fact that the lead has
been generally replaced with silver or bismuth, both of which are actually
greater health risks than lead, well we'll leave that one for Ralph Nader if
he decides not to run for President."

I work in the electronics industry and have been hearing this for a year or
so now.

Carl Boyd

wrote in message
...
I thought the people on this group would be interested int his
article:

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2...21_004346.html

It's about "green" lead-free solder has caused problems. It think the
money quote is this one:

"And if you think this problem is minor, I have been told that just
the cost of changing to lead-free solder stands right now at $280
BILLION and climbing. That cost is borne by all of us."

It even has some metal content...



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Old February 22nd 08, 08:38 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Lead in solder

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:11:26 -0800 (PST), with neither quill nor
qualm, quickly quoth:

I thought the people on this group would be interested int his
article:

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2...21_004346.html

It's about "green" lead-free solder has caused problems. It think the
money quote is this one:

"And if you think this problem is minor, I have been told that just
the cost of changing to lead-free solder stands right now at $280
BILLION and climbing. That cost is borne by all of us."

It even has some metal content...


I'd like to know where he came up with that $280B figure.

Yeah, "green" can be mighty costly, and sometimes uselessly so. (The
Kyoto Protocol is one of those, with an estimated 0.07 degree C
difference if every country complies.)

---
Every moment is a golden one
for him who has the vision to recognize it as such.
-- Henry Miller
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Old February 22nd 08, 10:32 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Lead in solder

wrote:

I thought the people on this group would be interested int his
article:

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2...21_004346.html

It's about "green" lead-free solder has caused problems. It think the
money quote is this one:

"And if you think this problem is minor, I have been told that just
the cost of changing to lead-free solder stands right now at $280
BILLION and climbing. That cost is borne by all of us."

It even has some metal content...


I think nearly all the electrical connections in a car are solderless
compression fittings. If they aren't they should be. Done right it
makes a better connection than solder. That means using the appropiate
connector and the tooling that they were designed for. NOT those
idiot "multipurpose" thingos. :-)
...lew...
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Old February 22nd 08, 11:09 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Lead in solder


"Carl Boyd" quoted from the article: (clip)The fact that the lead has
been generally replaced with silver or bismuth, both of which are actually
greater health risks than lead, (clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Right! My silverware is going in the dumpster so I can replace it with less
hazardous leadware.




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Old February 22nd 08, 11:54 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Lead in solder

Carl Boyd wrote:
This is the part of the article thet blows me away

"The fact
that the lead has been generally replaced with silver or bismuth,
both of which are actually greater health risks than lead, "



That's patently false. Silver and bismuth are nowhere near as harmful as
lead.


_______________________________
** VOTE PICKLES! **
www.pickles-for-president.com

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Old February 23rd 08, 12:42 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
DT DT is offline
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Default Lead in solder


"Most of these are now assembled using solder joints that have no lead in an
effort to save our groundwater and our health. The fact that the lead has
been generally replaced with silver or bismuth, both of which are actually
greater health risks than lead,



Guess I'll have to do without silverware and Pepto Bismol.

--
Dennis

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Old February 23rd 08, 12:42 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Lead in solder

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:32:10 -0700, Lew Hartswick
wrote:

wrote:

I thought the people on this group would be interested int his
article:

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2...21_004346.html

It's about "green" lead-free solder has caused problems. It think the
money quote is this one:

"And if you think this problem is minor, I have been told that just
the cost of changing to lead-free solder stands right now at $280
BILLION and climbing. That cost is borne by all of us."

It even has some metal content...


I think nearly all the electrical connections in a car are solderless
compression fittings. If they aren't they should be. Done right it
makes a better connection than solder. That means using the appropiate
connector and the tooling that they were designed for. NOT those
idiot "multipurpose" thingos. :-)
...lew...

Virtually NONE of the connections in/on the microprocessors and
associated controllers (think Can-bus) are constructed with crimp
connections. They have ciecuit boards, which are soldered. Leadfre
solder is a total pain in the butt to work with, and ALL devices to be
soldered with lead free NEED to be specially made for lead free
solder. The problems with lead-free solder in electronics assembly are
legion.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

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Old February 23rd 08, 03:08 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Lead in solder

Naturally the other issues is the semiconductor material itself -
It had/has a trace of a trace amount of lead and had to be out.
Either copper or Aluminum micro wires either as bonding wire (was gold)
to substrate.

The royal pain is right - think BGA balls and have them function with the
exotic alloys needed.

Totally out of control rules and regulations that cost hundreds of millions
or maybe billions ?

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:32:10 -0700, Lew Hartswick
wrote:

wrote:

I thought the people on this group would be interested int his
article:

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2...21_004346.html

It's about "green" lead-free solder has caused problems. It think the
money quote is this one:

"And if you think this problem is minor, I have been told that just
the cost of changing to lead-free solder stands right now at $280
BILLION and climbing. That cost is borne by all of us."

It even has some metal content...

I think nearly all the electrical connections in a car are solderless
compression fittings. If they aren't they should be. Done right it
makes a better connection than solder. That means using the appropiate
connector and the tooling that they were designed for. NOT those
idiot "multipurpose" thingos. :-)
...lew...

Virtually NONE of the connections in/on the microprocessors and
associated controllers (think Can-bus) are constructed with crimp
connections. They have ciecuit boards, which are soldered. Leadfre
solder is a total pain in the butt to work with, and ALL devices to be
soldered with lead free NEED to be specially made for lead free
solder. The problems with lead-free solder in electronics assembly are
legion.

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Old February 23rd 08, 04:24 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 362
Default Lead in solder


I'd like to know where he came up with that $280B figure.


I don't know, exactly, but in my assembly business, the time taken by
our assemblers to place a component on a circuit board using lead-free
pure tin solder is about twice as long as with tin/lead solder. So,
that may be where the amount came from. The machine placed components
using a paste of tin-silver-copper takes the same amount of time. The
pass through the convection oven is also about the same time.

The scary thing is what two of our customers reported in the last
couple of weeks. That is a perfectly soldered lead-free component,
soldered to a silver plated circuit board using tin-silver-copper
solder paste, popped off the circuit board, leaving a trace of copper
from the component where it had been soldered.

The actual lead-free plating on the copper component leads detached
from the component.

I have read that lead-free wave soldering will always begin to
dissolve the copper board trace into the molten solder. Same thing may
happen with lead-free solder paste and a convection oven when the time
of the paste being liquid is too long. I have not read about the
component tinning/plating also causing copper problems in the
component.

This happened on one component on one board out of many for two
different customers. Not the same component manufacture, either.

Paul



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