I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I
read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is
traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really
need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if
I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible,
especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic
equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an
electronics hobbyist anymore.

wrote in message
ups.com...
I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I
read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is
traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really
need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if
I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible,
especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic
equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an
electronics hobbyist anymore.


The situation is complex, and it depends on where exactly you are located.
As far as Europe goes, leaded solder is NOT illegal, and is unlikely to
become so. Supplies are still fairly readily available, although not as
abundantly as they were, as obviously, there is less demand. The directives
regarding the use of lead-free solder, allow for amateur and non-commercial
use of leaded solder, basically without restriction. Any equipment which was
"placed on the market" prior to July 1 2006, can be repaired, commercially,
using leaded solder if you wish. If it was constructed originally using
leaded solder, then the general opinion is that it should be repaired using
leaded solder, as there is considerable controversy as to whether leaded and
lead-free solder alloys mix to produce a joint with long-term stability.

If the item was originally constructed using lead-free, then for the same
reason, use lead-free to repair it. Any item that was placed on the market
after July 1 2006, will definitely be constructed using lead-free solder,
and lead-free components ( the other angle to staying within the terms of
the directive ). If you are a commercial repairer, you MUST use lead-free
solder and direct replacement or compatible lead-free RoHS ( Restriction of
Hazardous Substances ) certified components to perform any repair on this
equipment, and not commit a theoretical criminal offence. I say theoretical
because to date, I am not aware of anyone being prosecuted, or any means
being in place to police the directive.

You are not required to follow the terms of the directive for this
equipment, if you are working on it non-commercially ie for your own
personal purposes. Most commercial equipment has been manufactured in
lead-free for more than 2 years now, and some manufacturers - Sony for
instance - have been insisting for some time that their dealers use only
lead-free solder for carrying out repairs to their equipment, irrespective
of age or original construction materials, so apparently, they don't believe
that there is an issue with mixing alloys.

There is a lot of information on the web about this if you search " RoHS "
directive. Also, there is a lot of valuable information on the major
component suppliers' websites such as Farnell and RS Components. If you can
get hold of a copy of " Technology @ Home " magazine ( last issue ) -
www.technology-at-home.co.uk you can find the more comprehensive article
that I did.

Arfa

wrote:

I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I
read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is
traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really
need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if
I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible,
especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic
equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an
electronics hobbyist anymore.

You *need* tin lead solder for repairing old gear and it's still widely
available for that very reason. It's also hugely nicer to use.

There are a number of categories of equipment that are still allowed to use tin
lead solder too. The lead free thing is intended mainly I think to apply in
reality to consumer goods but the legislation in the EU doesn't distinguish as
such.

Graham

Eeyore wrote:

wrote:

I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I
read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is
traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really
need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if
I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible,
especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic
equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an
electronics hobbyist anymore.

Mixing leaded and lead-free solders can be problematic. Generally if a
device was built using leaded solder then leaded solder should be used
for repair. For lead free assemblies, of course lead free solder should
be used. The big question is, how will you be able to tell whether or
not a board was put together using leaded or lead-free solder?
Hopefully some mfrs will mark their boards accordingly but I doubt if
many will. Just because some components may be marked as being 'lead
free' or 'RoHS compliant' doesn't mean the board was assembled with lead
free solder. Lead free parts will work fine with leaded solders as well
as lead free solders.

As far as hobby work goes there's nothing wrong with using lead free
solder for hand work. It's slightly more difficult to work with, but
high silver bearing solders such as SAC305 formulas seem to work the
best. Using lots of flux is important as well, since a more agressive
flux is needed than with tin/lead solder to ensure proper wetting. But
if you are a soldering newbie it might be better to start out with some
tin/lead solder until you get the hang of it as it is a little more
forgiving...

-Jeff

"Jeff Sutherland" wrote in message
...
Eeyore wrote:

wrote:

I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I
read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is
traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really
need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if
I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible,
especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic
equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an
electronics hobbyist anymore.

Mixing leaded and lead-free solders can be problematic. Generally if a
device was built using leaded solder then leaded solder should be used for
repair. For lead free assemblies, of course lead free solder should be
used. The big question is, how will you be able to tell whether or not a
board was put together using leaded or lead-free solder? Hopefully some
mfrs will mark their boards accordingly but I doubt if many will. Just
because some components may be marked as being 'lead free' or 'RoHS
compliant' doesn't mean the board was assembled with lead free solder.
Lead free parts will work fine with leaded solders as well as lead free
solders.

As far as hobby work goes there's nothing wrong with using lead free
solder for hand work. It's slightly more difficult to work with, but high
silver bearing solders such as SAC305 formulas seem to work the best.
Using lots of flux is important as well, since a more agressive flux is
needed than with tin/lead solder to ensure proper wetting. But if you are
a soldering newbie it might be better to start out with some tin/lead
solder until you get the hang of it as it is a little more forgiving...

-Jeff

Are there manufacturers that are not marking their boards for lead content?
I thought it was required in Europe and all of the CE vendors that I have
seen in the US are marking the boards.

What is the problem with mixing the solders? Other than the lead free types
making it harder to rework and needing slightly higher temps, what problems
are there? What does "problematic" mean in this case? Is there a real
issue or does it mean that you are not sure and are being conservative?

Leonard


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 2917 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Try SPAMfighter for free now!

"Leonard Caillouet" wrote in message
news:2yfJg.3687$Zm1.1807@dukeread02...

"Jeff Sutherland" wrote in message
...
Eeyore wrote:

wrote:

I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I
read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is
traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really
need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if
I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible,
especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic
equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an
electronics hobbyist anymore.

Mixing leaded and lead-free solders can be problematic. Generally if a
device was built using leaded solder then leaded solder should be used
for repair. For lead free assemblies, of course lead free solder should
be used. The big question is, how will you be able to tell whether or
not a board was put together using leaded or lead-free solder? Hopefully
some mfrs will mark their boards accordingly but I doubt if many will.
Just because some components may be marked as being 'lead free' or 'RoHS
compliant' doesn't mean the board was assembled with lead free solder.
Lead free parts will work fine with leaded solders as well as lead free
solders.

As far as hobby work goes there's nothing wrong with using lead free
solder for hand work. It's slightly more difficult to work with, but
high silver bearing solders such as SAC305 formulas seem to work the
best. Using lots of flux is important as well, since a more agressive
flux is needed than with tin/lead solder to ensure proper wetting. But
if you are a soldering newbie it might be better to start out with some
tin/lead solder until you get the hang of it as it is a little more
forgiving...

-Jeff

Are there manufacturers that are not marking their boards for lead
content? I thought it was required in Europe and all of the CE vendors
that I have seen in the US are marking the boards.

What is the problem with mixing the solders? Other than the lead free
types making it harder to rework and needing slightly higher temps, what
problems are there? What does "problematic" mean in this case? Is there
a real issue or does it mean that you are not sure and are being
conservative?

Leonard



Hi Leonard

I have done quite a bit of research into this, and have corresponded with
several experts in the field, and it seems that the jury is still out on
this one. Half of the solder manufacturers say that it's ok to mix leaded
and unleaded, and half say not. Some of the experts that I have spoken to
say definitely not, so make up your own mind. I prefer not to mix them, as
it seems that marginally more people seem to be saying don't than do. As the
solder is still available, I see no reason to risk an unknown long term
compromise in the stability of the joint, and will continue to use like for
like, unless forced by product availability, or legislation, to do
otherwise.

Personally, I think that the whole thing is an ill-conceived and poorly
thought through excuse to justify the existence of an EU department, and the
jobs of those who work in it. And, as I've said before, the avionics
industry, and medical instruments industry, amongst others, have been
granted an exemption, and the American military flatly refuse to use it, so
what are we to make of that ... ?

Arfa

Leonard Caillouet wrote:
"Jeff Sutherland" wrote in message
...
Eeyore wrote:
wrote:

I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I
read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is
traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really
need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if
I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible,
especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic
equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an
electronics hobbyist anymore.
Mixing leaded and lead-free solders can be problematic. Generally if a
device was built using leaded solder then leaded solder should be used for
repair. For lead free assemblies, of course lead free solder should be
used. The big question is, how will you be able to tell whether or not a
board was put together using leaded or lead-free solder? Hopefully some
mfrs will mark their boards accordingly but I doubt if many will. Just
because some components may be marked as being 'lead free' or 'RoHS
compliant' doesn't mean the board was assembled with lead free solder.
Lead free parts will work fine with leaded solders as well as lead free
solders.

As far as hobby work goes there's nothing wrong with using lead free
solder for hand work. It's slightly more difficult to work with, but high
silver bearing solders such as SAC305 formulas seem to work the best.
Using lots of flux is important as well, since a more agressive flux is
needed than with tin/lead solder to ensure proper wetting. But if you are
a soldering newbie it might be better to start out with some tin/lead
solder until you get the hang of it as it is a little more forgiving...

-Jeff

Are there manufacturers that are not marking their boards for lead content?
I thought it was required in Europe and all of the CE vendors that I have
seen in the US are marking the boards.

What is the problem with mixing the solders? Other than the lead free types
making it harder to rework and needing slightly higher temps, what problems
are there? What does "problematic" mean in this case? Is there a real
issue or does it mean that you are not sure and are being conservative?

From what I've read about the subject, it comes down to metallurgical
issues. If a part with tin/lead plated leads is used in a lead free
process, the lead will contaminate the joint. As little as 0.5% lead is
enough to weaken the joint and lead to cracking around the footprint.
What happens is the lead, as it melts at a lower temperature than tin
(we're not talking about alloys here but trace contaminating amounts),
will collect in the joint at the place that cools last, which is the
center of mass, right under the footprint. (Obviously we're talking
about SMT components here). This reduces the amount of tin doing the
actual bonding of the lead and can lead to early joint failure.

Boards made with lead free solders have been found to have better
reliability when thermally cycled, one reason the automotive companies
have embraced lead free assembly here in the USA. Long term reliability
due to tin whiskers is the issue no one wants to talk about however, as
the process of whisker formation is still not well understood.

-Jeff

Jeff Sutherland wrote:

Leonard Caillouet wrote:
"Jeff Sutherland" wrote in message
...
Eeyore wrote:
wrote:

I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I
read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is
traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really
need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if
I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible,
especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic
equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an
electronics hobbyist anymore.
Mixing leaded and lead-free solders can be problematic. Generally if a
device was built using leaded solder then leaded solder should be used for
repair. For lead free assemblies, of course lead free solder should be
used. The big question is, how will you be able to tell whether or not a
board was put together using leaded or lead-free solder? Hopefully some
mfrs will mark their boards accordingly but I doubt if many will. Just
because some components may be marked as being 'lead free' or 'RoHS
compliant' doesn't mean the board was assembled with lead free solder.
Lead free parts will work fine with leaded solders as well as lead free
solders.

As far as hobby work goes there's nothing wrong with using lead free
solder for hand work. It's slightly more difficult to work with, but high
silver bearing solders such as SAC305 formulas seem to work the best.
Using lots of flux is important as well, since a more agressive flux is
needed than with tin/lead solder to ensure proper wetting. But if you are
a soldering newbie it might be better to start out with some tin/lead
solder until you get the hang of it as it is a little more forgiving...

-Jeff

Are there manufacturers that are not marking their boards for lead content?
I thought it was required in Europe and all of the CE vendors that I have
seen in the US are marking the boards.

What is the problem with mixing the solders? Other than the lead free types
making it harder to rework and needing slightly higher temps, what problems
are there? What does "problematic" mean in this case? Is there a real
issue or does it mean that you are not sure and are being conservative?

From what I've read about the subject, it comes down to metallurgical
issues. If a part with tin/lead plated leads is used in a lead free
process, the lead will contaminate the joint. As little as 0.5% lead is
enough to weaken the joint and lead to cracking around the footprint.
What happens is the lead, as it melts at a lower temperature than tin
(we're not talking about alloys here but trace contaminating amounts),
will collect in the joint at the place that cools last, which is the
center of mass, right under the footprint. (Obviously we're talking
about SMT components here). This reduces the amount of tin doing the
actual bonding of the lead and can lead to early joint failure.

Boards made with lead free solders have been found to have better
reliability when thermally cycled, one reason the automotive companies
have embraced lead free assembly here in the USA. Long term reliability
due to tin whiskers is the issue no one wants to talk about however, as
the process of whisker formation is still not well understood.

-Jeff


Tin can fracture at low temperatures.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Leonard Caillouet wrote:

"Jeff Sutherland" wrote in message
...
Eeyore wrote:

wrote:

I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I
read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is
traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really
need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if
I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible,
especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic
equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an
electronics hobbyist anymore.

Mixing leaded and lead-free solders can be problematic. Generally if a
device was built using leaded solder then leaded solder should be used for
repair. For lead free assemblies, of course lead free solder should be
used. The big question is, how will you be able to tell whether or not a
board was put together using leaded or lead-free solder? Hopefully some
mfrs will mark their boards accordingly but I doubt if many will. Just
because some components may be marked as being 'lead free' or 'RoHS
compliant' doesn't mean the board was assembled with lead free solder.
Lead free parts will work fine with leaded solders as well as lead free
solders.

As far as hobby work goes there's nothing wrong with using lead free
solder for hand work. It's slightly more difficult to work with, but high
silver bearing solders such as SAC305 formulas seem to work the best.
Using lots of flux is important as well, since a more agressive flux is
needed than with tin/lead solder to ensure proper wetting. But if you are
a soldering newbie it might be better to start out with some tin/lead
solder until you get the hang of it as it is a little more forgiving...

-Jeff

Are there manufacturers that are not marking their boards for lead content?
I thought it was required in Europe and all of the CE vendors that I have
seen in the US are marking the boards.

What is the problem with mixing the solders? Other than the lead free types
making it harder to rework and needing slightly higher temps, what problems
are there? What does "problematic" mean in this case? Is there a real
issue or does it mean that you are not sure and are being conservative?


Lenoard, From what I've read you should wick away most of the old
solder and do the repair with eutectic solder


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Lenoard, From what I've read you should wick away most of the old
solder and do the repair with eutectic solder

I usually do, adding some fresh solder to help it off.

Leonard



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 3076 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Try SPAMfighter for free now!

Jeff Sutherland wrote:

If a part with tin/lead plated leads is used in a lead free
process, the lead will contaminate the joint. As little as 0.5% lead is
enough to weaken the joint and lead to cracking around the footprint.

Yes, but I gather that the other way round is just fine.

Graham

Leonard Caillouet wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Lenoard, From what I've read you should wick away most of the old
solder and do the repair with eutectic solder

I usually do, adding some fresh solder to help it off.

Leonard


Do you leave a tiny bit of saturated braid on the end when you trim
it? It helps conduct the heat to the joint faster and minimizes heat
damage. I try to leave about half the width of the tip when I trim
solder wick, then dip it about 1/4 inch into fresh liquid RMA flux. I've
changed thousands of ICs this way with almost no damage to the PC
boards.

The few that were damaged were mostly due to other causes, like some
idiot slamming a fist down on the bench while you're working because
they think you're ignoring them, or defective PC boards that have all
kinds of loose foils and pads. I have to see if my digital camera will
do decent macro shots. If it does, I'll put some pictures for the new
people on my website. BTW, How's business?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida