Should I buy a stock of 'proper' solder for my future plumbing needs before the
stuff with lead in it gets banned?

What is the lead free stuff made from?


--

Michael Chare

In article ,
"Michael Chare" writes:
Should I buy a stock of 'proper' solder for my future plumbing needs before the
stuff with lead in it gets banned?

Why? What's wrong with lead-free for plumbing?
I've used both, and there's very little difference in use.
The lead-free forms a slightly more shiny surface.

What is the lead free stuff made from?

It says on the reels -- I don't know if they're all the same,
but ISTR tin is the main component.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Michael Chare wrote:
Should I buy a stock of 'proper' solder for my future plumbing needs before the
stuff with lead in it gets banned?

There's nothing wrong with or difficult about lead-free solder
(except it's more expensive).


What is the lead free stuff made from?

99.5% tin, 0.5% copper.

Chris Bacon wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
Should I buy a stock of 'proper' solder for my future plumbing needs before the
stuff with lead in it gets banned?

There's nothing wrong with or difficult about lead-free solder
(except it's more expensive).


What is the lead free stuff made from?

99.5% tin, 0.5% copper.

Or any of the other variations, most with more copper and many
including silver.

MBQ

In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
Should I buy a stock of 'proper' solder for my future plumbing needs
before the stuff with lead in it gets banned?

Don't see why - I've not found the new stuff a problem for plumbing.
It's more of a problem for electronics, but IIRC there's no move to ban it
for repair purposes - just manufacture.

What is the lead free stuff made from?

Mainly tin.

--
*Taxation WITH representation ain't much fun, either.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

manatbandq wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
What is the lead free stuff made from?

99.5% tin, 0.5% copper.

Or any of the other variations, most with more copper and many
including silver.

Silver in plumbing solder?

In article ,
Chris Bacon wrote:
There's nothing wrong with or difficult about lead-free solder
(except it's more expensive).

You forgot to describe the circumstances. I know many (in the electronics
industry) who would question your sanity at that comment! ;-(

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

Chris Bacon wrote:
manatbandq wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
What is the lead free stuff made from?

99.5% tin, 0.5% copper.

Or any of the other variations, most with more copper and many
including silver.

Silver in plumbing solder?

In the ones I found by Googling, yes.

MBQ

Michael Chare wrote:
Should I buy a stock of 'proper' solder for my future plumbing needs before the
stuff with lead in it gets banned?

What is the lead free stuff made from?


--

Michael Chare

Lead free works fine. The only advantage of lead solder is that it's
slightly easier to work with if your soldering technique and
preparation is rank.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:35:19 +0000 (GMT), John Cartmell
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Bacon wrote:
There's nothing wrong with or difficult about lead-free solder
(except it's more expensive).

You forgot to describe the circumstances. I know many (in the electronics
industry) who would question your sanity at that comment! ;-(

You're not kidding.

The forthcoming legislation from the ROHSS Directive is turning out to
be quite a pain in the bum.

There are ifs buts and maybes all over the place, plus exemptions if a
product is a "server", used in telecomms or network management. Total
mess.

That's before the even bigger mess of the WEEE directive on recycling
where the government is in complete disarray and likely to fall foul
of time limits issued by Brussels for having everything in place.

--

..andy

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
Should I buy a stock of 'proper' solder for my future plumbing needs
before the stuff with lead in it gets banned?

Don't see why - I've not found the new stuff a problem for plumbing.
It's more of a problem for electronics, but IIRC there's no move to ban it
for repair purposes - just manufacture.

Thanks for the replies. I have wondered if the plumbing fittings I bought 3
years ago were in fact lead free.

Fortunately, I have a supply for electrical work!

*Taxation WITH representation ain't much fun, either.

Looks like voting for lower taxes will no longer be an option!

--

Michael Chare

The message
from (Andrew Gabriel) contains these words:

Why? What's wrong with lead-free for plumbing?

It's not quite as easy to use if you're not good at soldering in the
first place. It's OK but the transition from liquid to solid is rather
sudden.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Andy Hall wrote:

The forthcoming legislation from the ROHSS Directive is turning out to
be quite a pain in the bum.

There are ifs buts and maybes all over the place, plus exemptions if a
product is a "server", used in telecomms or network management. Total
mess.

Gets even worse when you have single source components supplied by US
manufactureres who have not got a clue about the whole lead free debate.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
Should I buy a stock of 'proper' solder for my future plumbing needs before the
stuff with lead in it gets banned?

There's nothing wrong with or difficult about lead-free solder
(except it's more expensive).


What is the lead free stuff made from?

99.5% tin, 0.5% copper.

Or any of the other variations, most with more copper and many
including silver.

MBQ

I thought that lead free melts at a higher temperature than Pb/Sn,
There is a lead free with silver that melts at a lower temperature but
still higher than Pb/Sn.

For somebody like me who is crap at soldering that makes all the
diffrence.

Kevin

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Gets even worse when you have single source components supplied by US
manufactureres who have not got a clue about the whole lead free debate.

IIRC, the military in the US won't accept lead free solder on reliability
grounds.

--
*Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The message
from John Rumm contains these words:

Gets even worse when you have single source components supplied by US
manufactureres who have not got a clue about the whole lead free debate.

They tried some years ago but it got fillibustered.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 13:51:14 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

The forthcoming legislation from the ROHSS Directive is turning out to
be quite a pain in the bum.

There are ifs buts and maybes all over the place, plus exemptions if a
product is a "server", used in telecomms or network management. Total
mess.

Gets even worse when you have single source components supplied by US
manufactureres who have not got a clue about the whole lead free debate.


or others who are looking for any excuse not to have to do anything.


--

..andy

Kev wrote:
manatbandq wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
What is the lead free stuff made from?

99.5% tin, 0.5% copper.

Or any of the other variations, most with more copper and many
including silver.

I thought that lead free melts at a higher temperature than Pb/Sn,
There is a lead free with silver that melts at a lower temperature but
still higher than Pb/Sn.

If there's a pointer to the general use of tin/silver solder in
domestic plumbing, I'd appreciate an indication.


For somebody like me who is crap at soldering that makes all the
diffrence.

If the metal's clean, and you use a decent flux such as Laco,
there's no problem at all with tin/copper IME.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
Gets even worse when you have single source components supplied by US
manufactureres who have not got a clue about the whole lead free debate.

IIRC, the military in the US won't accept lead free solder on reliability
grounds.

I've no idea what relevance that has to UK domestic plumbing.

The message
from Chris Bacon contains these words:

IIRC, the military in the US won't accept lead free solder on reliability
grounds.

I've no idea what relevance that has to UK domestic plumbing.

Was it required to?

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Michael Chare wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

*Taxation WITH representation ain't much fun, either.


Looks like voting for lower taxes will no longer be an option!

Since when did any guv mint (with a tax hole) ever allow us to vote for
the tax we would prefer to pay? :-(

Dave

In article ,
Chris Bacon wrote:
Gets even worse when you have single source components supplied by US
manufactureres who have not got a clue about the whole lead free
debate.

IIRC, the military in the US won't accept lead free solder on
reliability grounds.

I've no idea what relevance that has to UK domestic plumbing.

Chris - seek treatment.

--
*You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Chris Bacon wrote:
Kev wrote:
manatbandq wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
What is the lead free stuff made from?

99.5% tin, 0.5% copper.

Or any of the other variations, most with more copper and many
including silver.

I thought that lead free melts at a higher temperature than Pb/Sn,
There is a lead free with silver that melts at a lower temperature but
still higher than Pb/Sn.

If there's a pointer to the general use of tin/silver solder in
domestic plumbing, I'd appreciate an indication.


For somebody like me who is crap at soldering that makes all the
diffrence.

If the metal's clean, and you use a decent flux such as Laco,
there's no problem at all with tin/copper IME.

I bought a white metal kit a few years ago and I have been to scared to
start it as the solder for white metal is white metal.
It takes me back to my apprenticeship when I had to braze brass studs
into copper blocks. You had about a second after the braze melted
before the stud melted and you finished up with a great blob of molten
brass.

Kevin

Chris Bacon wrote:

IIRC, the military in the US won't accept lead free solder on reliability
grounds.

I've no idea what relevance that has to UK domestic plumbing.

It's less reliable in the hands of Americans?

On second thoughts, that applies to most things.
No relevance at all.

What's the score with lead free solder for plumbing.

Do the new laws prohibiting the use of lead free solder in electronics
manufacturing also apply to plumbing? Will all solder joints now have to be
lead free?

I don't see much leaded 60/40 solder for sale nowadays - seems quite rare
and difficult to obtain......

Kev wrote:
It takes me back to my apprenticeship when I had to braze brass studs
into copper blocks. You had about a second after the braze melted
before the stud melted and you finished up with a great blob of molten
brass.

I tried that with carbon pencils, brass into copper bar. You're right!

The message .com
from "Kev" contains these words:

It takes me back to my apprenticeship when I had to braze brass studs
into copper blocks. You had about a second after the braze melted
before the stud melted and you finished up with a great blob of molten
brass.

I'd have thought friction welding might have been more suitable.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:57:19 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:


|I've never used leaded solder in plumbing. Lead free is superior in that it
|don't turn your children into retards.

I will take that as an insult, because I was brought up in the days when
water was delivered in lead pipes.

Never had any trouble earning a comfortable living :-)
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
Freedom of Speech, Expression, Religion, and Democracy are
the keys to Civilization, together with legal acceptance of
Fundamental Human rights.

I've never used leaded solder in plumbing. Lead free is superior in that
it don't turn your children into retards.

I will take that as an insult, because I was brought up in the days when
water was delivered in lead pipes.

Ah. Explains a lot. ;-)

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
.. .
Should I buy a stock of 'proper' solder for my future plumbing needs
before the
stuff with lead in it gets banned?

I've never used leaded solder in plumbing. Lead free is superior in that
it
don't turn your children into retards.

Lead is only an issue in hot water systems which are used for drinking
water. Cold is fine with no safety issues here. Much of UK is still served
up by means of lead pipe as the rising main. Anything pre 1950's afaik most
likely have lead.
To be totally honest I don't drink water from the hot tap - the thought of
water delivered from a water tank in the loft isn't as appealling from water
delivered from the rising main!!

Christian McArdle wrote:
Should I buy a stock of 'proper' solder for my future plumbing needs
before the
stuff with lead in it gets banned?

I've never used leaded solder in plumbing. Lead free is superior in that it
don't turn your children into retards. There is no reason whatsoever to use
leaded solder. Perhaps you just have a poor torch (i.e. a paint stripping
type Taymar) that isn't suitable for plumbing.

Christian.


Lead solder won't do that half as fast as Nu Laber and tellytubbies will.

Fix the IMPORTANT things first.

The message
from SuitSat contains these words:

To be totally honest I don't drink water from the hot tap - the thought of
water delivered from a water tank in the loft isn't as appealling from
water
delivered from the rising main!!

You got something against dilute pigeon soup?

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in
My hot water system is potable. Not a rat infested loft tank in sight!
Good
for filling kettles and pans.

Rat & pigeon soup? Adds to the flavour.....

On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:57:19 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

Should I buy a stock of 'proper' solder for my future plumbing needs
before the
stuff with lead in it gets banned?

I've never used leaded solder in plumbing. Lead free is superior in that it
don't turn your children into retards. There is no reason whatsoever to use
leaded solder. Perhaps you just have a poor torch (i.e. a paint stripping
type Taymar) that isn't suitable for plumbing.

Lead free is inferior in that it when subjected to heat cycling in use
cracks develop. It also needs significantly higher temperatures to
melt and also has a longer setting time compared to leaded solders.

The amount of lead uptake from a typical household water system joined
with lead containing solder is so small as to be totally
insignificant. You'd die of dihydrogen monoxide (Hydrogen hydroxide)
poisoning before the lead caused any damage.

Leaded pipes in soft water areas are where the real risk lies.


--

The amount of lead uptake from a typical household water system joined
with lead containing solder is so small as to be totally
insignificant. You'd die of dihydrogen monoxide (Hydrogen hydroxide)
poisoning before the lead caused any damage.

I know. However, lead free solder works just fine in practice and there is
absolutely no need to stock up on leaded solder.

Christian.

The message
from Matt contains these words:

You'd die of dihydrogen monoxide (Hydrogen hydroxide)

I've just realised - alcohols are distinguished by their hydroxyl (-OH)
group on one end. This means that water is an alcohol! At last an
explanation for Monday mornings.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Christian McArdle wrote:
Should I buy a stock of 'proper' solder for my future plumbing needs
before the
stuff with lead in it gets banned?
I've never used leaded solder in plumbing. Lead free is superior in
that it
don't turn your children into retards. There is no reason whatsoever to use
leaded solder. Perhaps you just have a poor torch (i.e. a paint stripping
type Taymar) that isn't suitable for plumbing.
Christian.

Lead solder won't do that half as fast as Nu Laber and tellytubbies
will.

Fix the IMPORTANT things first.

Like ... get rid of prime ministers who listen to the voices in their
head


--
geoff

On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 21:53:05 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Christian McArdle wrote:
Should I buy a stock of 'proper' solder for my future plumbing needs
before the
stuff with lead in it gets banned?
I've never used leaded solder in plumbing. Lead free is superior in
that it
don't turn your children into retards. There is no reason whatsoever to use
leaded solder. Perhaps you just have a poor torch (i.e. a paint stripping
type Taymar) that isn't suitable for plumbing.
Christian.

Lead solder won't do that half as fast as Nu Laber and tellytubbies
will.

Fix the IMPORTANT things first.

Like ... get rid of prime ministers who listen to the voices in their
head

Wouldn't that make finding a new one a bit difficult??

In message , EricP
writes
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 21:53:05 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Christian McArdle wrote:
Should I buy a stock of 'proper' solder for my future plumbing needs
before the
stuff with lead in it gets banned?
I've never used leaded solder in plumbing. Lead free is superior in
that it
don't turn your children into retards. There is no reason whatsoever to use
leaded solder. Perhaps you just have a poor torch (i.e. a paint stripping
type Taymar) that isn't suitable for plumbing.
Christian.

Lead solder won't do that half as fast as Nu Laber and tellytubbies
will.

Fix the IMPORTANT things first.

Like ... get rid of prime ministers who listen to the voices in their
head

Wouldn't that make finding a new one a bit difficult??

No, they're safer when the grey matter has been sucked out

--
geoff