I have heard, not seen anything in print yet, that the sale/supply of
lead based solder of any type is to cease within the next few years,
due to EU ruling. Anyone else heard of this, any info. on it?

On 24 Apr 2005 00:58:21 -0700, "4square"
wrote:

I have heard, not seen anything in print yet, that the sale/supply of
lead based solder of any type is to cease within the next few years,
due to EU ruling.

Well that's what you get for listening to UKIP scaremongering. They're
going to straighten your bananas too you know !

Was it Europe that imposed Part P on us ? Or Blair ?

"4square" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have heard, not seen anything in print yet, that the sale/supply of
lead based solder of any type is to cease within the next few years,
due to EU ruling. Anyone else heard of this, any info. on it?

Well, there is this (been out for quite q few years);
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...5/477158/?lang
=_e
There are exemptions.

In article . com,
4square wrote:
I have heard, not seen anything in print yet, that the sale/supply of
lead based solder of any type is to cease within the next few years,
due to EU ruling. Anyone else heard of this, any info. on it?

Certainly for use on potable water supplies. Doubt it for electrical or
general use. The fumes from the flux are said to be more of a risk. They
can't be much of a risk or I'd be dead by now.

--
*You can't have everything, where would you put it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 00:58:21 -0700, 4square wrote:

I have heard, not seen anything in print yet, that the sale/supply of
lead based solder of any type is to cease within the next few years, due
to EU ruling. Anyone else heard of this, any info. on it?

Yes, our company went lead free last year. All flow soldering and hand
soldering inc my service side has gone that way. TAkes a while to get used
to lead free solder I found.

Dave

--
For what we are about to balls up may common sense prevent us doing it
again
in the future!!

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Certainly for use on potable water supplies. Doubt it for electrical or
general use. The fumes from the flux are said to be more of a risk. They
can't be much of a risk or I'd be dead by now.

I've got some lead-free solder for electronic assembly work. It's got a
very nice sweet fragance which just invites more breathing in of the
stuff. I'm still alive as i write this last wordl;wqdwqdfeqCARRIER LOST
AT 2048KBPS......

--
Adrian

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Doubt it for electrical or general use. The fumes from the flux are said to be more of a risk. They
can't be much of a risk or I'd be dead by now.


Some manufacturers ar switching to lead free solder - probably out of
fear or hype that lead solder will eventually be banned.
And I'd agree on the flux, it gives me asthma if I breathe it in too much.

Lee
--
Email address is valid, but is unlikely to be read.

4square wrote:
I have heard, not seen anything in print yet, that the sale/supply of
lead based solder of any type is to cease within the next few years,
due to EU ruling. Anyone else heard of this, any info. on it?


More than you ever want to know...

For a start, scroll down to "lead-free soldering", at:
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/in-prac/index.htm

The basic aim is very praiseworthy: to drastically reduce the amount of
lead going into landfill in the solder content of scrap electronic
equipment. But lead-free solder requires much tighter process tolerances
than the old tin/lead, and many industry commentators are expecting a
decrease in reliability of electronic equipment.

Hand soldering and repairs are significantly more difficult with
lead-free solder. Bit temperatures have to increase, and/or it takes
significantly longer to heat up the joint, both of which increase the
risk of overheating the components and PC boards.

In trying to avoid that risk, you may instead risk making 'cold' joints
that will very quickly fail... but even good joints made with lead-free
solder *look* like they are cold joints! Your experience in judging the
quality of tin-lead solder joints by their appearance can actually
mislead you with lead-free. That can lead you into a vicious circle of
re-heating joints that actually may be perfectly OK... if only you could
be sure.

For ordinary DIY hand soldering, stock up on all the leaded solder
you're going to need for a lifetime, while it's still available. If you
use it to repair existing equipment and extend its working life, then
IMO you'll have done more than your share to keep lead out of landfill.


--
Ian White

In article ,
Ian White wrote:
The basic aim is very praiseworthy: to drastically reduce the amount of
lead going into landfill in the solder content of scrap electronic
equipment.

But lead being a natural mineral surely occurs in some concentration
anyway in some parts of the world? Or am I missing something?

--
*And don't start a sentence with a conjunction *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article . com,
4square wrote:
I have heard, not seen anything in print yet, that the sale/supply of
lead based solder of any type is to cease within the next few years,
due to EU ruling. Anyone else heard of this, any info. on it?

Certainly for use on potable water supplies. Doubt it for electrical or
general use. The fumes from the flux are said to be more of a risk. They
can't be much of a risk or I'd be dead by now.

Huh ... I bet you don't get through a reel of solder a month !


--
geoff

In message . com,
4square writes
I have heard, not seen anything in print yet, that the sale/supply of
lead based solder of any type is to cease within the next few years,
due to EU ruling. Anyone else heard of this, any info. on it?


Yes, its banned (there are some exemptions) from 1 July 2006 under the
RoHS (restriction of Hazardous Substances) directive.
Total ******* nightmare.
Lead free solders require higher process temperatures and much better
process control, and still the joints look crap.
The real problem is contamination by lead. Even a fractional percentage
of lead in the solder completely screws joint reliability. Therefore
before you turn a product / process over to leadfree, you have to 100%
sure ALL your components are leadfree. Some component manufactures have
changed part numbers, some haven't. Everything has to be checked,
inventories and databases updated etc etc. Now if you make loads of a
small range of products, it manageable. We make small volumes of a huge
range of complex products.
Its a complete bureaucratic nonsense that will cripple UK / European
electronics manufacture, and just drive more of it to China.

The real stupid thing is that the WEEE directive (Waste electrical /
electronic equipment) means that in future most electrical stuff will be
separated and recycled anyway, so all this lead was to be taken out of
the landfill route anyway.

RoHS is my favourite anti-euro rant topic at the moment!

Plenty of info here :
http://uk.farnell.com/static/en/rohs/index.html

--
steve

In article ,
raden wrote:
Certainly for use on potable water supplies. Doubt it for electrical or
general use. The fumes from the flux are said to be more of a risk. They
can't be much of a risk or I'd be dead by now.

Huh ... I bet you don't get through a reel of solder a month !

Heh heh - no. More like one a year. But I do have an extractor fan by the
workbench anyway.

--
*The severity of the itch is proportional to the reach *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
raden wrote:
Certainly for use on potable water supplies. Doubt it for electrical or
general use. The fumes from the flux are said to be more of a risk. They
can't be much of a risk or I'd be dead by now.

Huh ... I bet you don't get through a reel of solder a month !

Heh heh - no. More like one a year. But I do have an extractor fan by the
workbench anyway.

Until I started CET, I never, ever, actually got through a reel of
solder

--
geoff

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:26:58 UTC, Dave Stanton wrote:

: Yes, our company went lead free last year. All flow soldering and hand
: soldering inc my service side has gone that way. TAkes a while to get used
: to lead free solder I found.

I do a lot of soldering work with children. The first reel of lead
free solder I got was dreadful - far too high a melting point. I got
some from Maplins recently, though, as an experiment, which works
fine.

Ian

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Ian White wrote:
The basic aim is very praiseworthy: to drastically reduce the amount of
lead going into landfill in the solder content of scrap electronic
equipment.

But lead being a natural mineral surely occurs in some concentration
anyway in some parts of the world? Or am I missing something?

As far as lead in solder is concerned, those arguments are already over.
The global electronics industry is changing to lead-free soldering, and
that's unstoppable.

My point was that a forced and hurried change is not the right way to do
it. Not if safety-critical systems become less reliable, failure rates
in general increase... and by the way, more scrap electronics goes into
landfill. Less lead, but even more junk.


--
Ian White

Ian Johnston wrote:
I do a lot of soldering work with children.

You'll have the RSPCC onto you sharpish mate!

Andrew

--
Please note that the email address used for posting
usenet messages is configured such that my antispam
filter will automatically update itself so that the
senders email address is flagged as spam. If you do
need to contact me please visit my web site and
submit an enquiry - http://www.kazmax.co.uk

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
raden wrote:
Certainly for use on potable water supplies. Doubt it for electrical
or
general use. The fumes from the flux are said to be more of a risk.
They
can't be much of a risk or I'd be dead by now.

Huh ... I bet you don't get through a reel of solder a month !

Heh heh - no. More like one a year. But I do have an extractor fan by the
workbench anyway.

Until I started CET, I never, ever, actually got through a reel of
solder



Can't be safe, though. Makes yer teeth drop out!


--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:24:17 UTC, Andrew McKay
wrote:

: Ian Johnston wrote:
: I do a lot of soldering work with children.
:
: You'll have the RSPCC onto you sharpish mate!

"with", not "onto".

Ian

Ian White wrote:
The global electronics industry is changing to lead-free soldering, and
that's unstoppable.


What's that done to the price of tin, then?

Chris Bacon wrote:
Ian White wrote:
The global electronics industry is changing to lead-free soldering,
and that's unstoppable.


What's that done to the price of tin, then?

You're getting the idea now...


--
Ian White

Ian White wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:

Ian White wrote:

The global electronics industry is changing to lead-free soldering,
and that's unstoppable.

What's that done to the price of tin, then?

You're getting the idea now...

http://www.lme.com/tin_graphs.asp

Well, well. It's now much nearer the price before the collapse of the
International Tin Council in 1985.

wrote:
I took a tour around a privately owned tin mine in Cornwall last year,
the chap said it was just about economic to consider re working it
rather than just giving tours.


Which was that, then, AJH? Geevor? I don't know what's on at South
Crofty, which was the last mine... (AFAIR it got to around 500 fm
deep, one shaft (New Cooks?) being 450 fm straight down!).

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
raden wrote:
Certainly for use on potable water supplies. Doubt it for electrical or
general use. The fumes from the flux are said to be more of a risk.
They
can't be much of a risk or I'd be dead by now.

Huh ... I bet you don't get through a reel of solder a month !

Heh heh - no. More like one a year. But I do have an extractor fan by the
workbench anyway.

And the flux used now (even on lead based solders) doesn't cause asthma in
the same way the old stuff in the 60s/70s did.

In message , RichardS
writes
"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
raden wrote:
Certainly for use on potable water supplies. Doubt it for electrical
or
general use. The fumes from the flux are said to be more of a risk.
They
can't be much of a risk or I'd be dead by now.

Huh ... I bet you don't get through a reel of solder a month !

Heh heh - no. More like one a year. But I do have an extractor fan by the
workbench anyway.

Until I started CET, I never, ever, actually got through a reel of
solder



Can't be safe, though. Makes yer teeth drop out!

Don't you have a shed to get sorted ?

ha ha

--
geoff

In message cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-PlqTlrnfFKQ3@localhost, Ian Johnston
writes
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:26:58 UTC, Dave Stanton wrote:

: Yes, our company went lead free last year. All flow soldering and hand
: soldering inc my service side has gone that way. TAkes a while to get used
: to lead free solder I found.

I do a lot of soldering work with children.

Don't they squeal a bit

--
geoff

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:00:00 UTC, raden wrote:

: In message cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-PlqTlrnfFKQ3@localhost, Ian Johnston
: writes
: On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:26:58 UTC, Dave Stanton wrote:
:
: : Yes, our company went lead free last year. All flow soldering and hand
: : soldering inc my service side has gone that way. TAkes a while to get used
: : to lead free solder I found.
:
: I do a lot of soldering work with children.
:
: Don't they squeal a bit

Not when they're up to temperature. Tinning them can be noisy the
first time, though.

Ian

Was it Europe that imposed Part P on us ? Or Blair ?

Europe

"Fred" wrote in message
...

Was it Europe that imposed Part P on us ? Or Blair ?

Europe


No it wasn't. Europe's main interest is the use of the common IEC socket.
Prescott is to blame for Part P.

Fred wrote:


Europe

Bull. Nothing in the Deputy-Prime-Minister's-Department documentation
refers to any EU Directive/Communication or any such. Overt
justification was 'safety', shown at the time and subsequently admitted
to be bogus (they used numbers for 'electrical fires' which included
appliances (over 90% of the cause), and firemen's 'not sure but prolly
lextrical' reports). Real reason was to bring small cash jobs into the
documented, through-the-books, taxed world. Unintended consequences -
polarising supply of leccy services for householders into gold-plated
thru-the-books and even more cash-in-hand who-cares jobs.

Nice one, Mr Prescott. P'raps if you were as close to your roots as your
image-makers try to paint you, you'd've foreseen the effect on 'ordinary
hard-working families'. And pigs might sprout wings...

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 12:19:20 +0100, Stefek Zaba
wrote:

Nice one, Mr Prescott.

Does Part P have anything to say about unexpected installation of
photovoltaic panels ?

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 11:12:24 +0100, "Grumps"
wrote:

"4square" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have heard, not seen anything in print yet, that the sale/supply of
lead based solder of any type is to cease within the next few years,
due to EU ruling. Anyone else heard of this, any info. on it?

Well, there is this (been out for quite q few years);
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...5/477158/?lang
=_e
There are exemptions.

I suppose you could consider solder as an "electronic component" and
therefore exempt :-)

--
Frank Erskine

Andy Dingley wrote:


Does Part P have anything to say about unexpected installation of
photovoltaic panels ?

Not unless they're in a bathroom or kitchen ;-)

However, I expect a Gummint Target for their erection soon enough. No
requirement to *connect* them, mind - and it'll be for the
marginally-useful photovoltaics, rather'n the simpler and more useful
solar water heating...

Stefek

Stefek Zaba wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
Does Part P have anything to say about unexpected installation of
photovoltaic panels ?
Not unless they're in a bathroom or kitchen ;-)

Or outside ;-) ;-)

Owain

In message , Frank Erskine
writes
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 11:12:24 +0100, "Grumps"
wrote:

"4square" wrote in message
roups.com...
I have heard, not seen anything in print yet, that the sale/supply of
lead based solder of any type is to cease within the next few years,
due to EU ruling. Anyone else heard of this, any info. on it?

Well, there is this (been out for quite q few years);
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...5/477158/?lang
=_e
There are exemptions.

I suppose you could consider solder as an "electronic component" and
therefore exempt :-)

Especially on potterton pcbs

They have semiconducting solder joints - they only work half the time

--
geoff

I don't think lead free solder would be much good in the stained glass window trade.