Iggie,

You should be able to unload a 1,000 lbs lathe from a pickup using a
"shop crane", a.k.a. "engine hoist". You can make this even easier by
removing various parts from the lathe.

I have just such a crane, which I bought initially to handle my mill,
and now can't imagine how I ever got by w/o one


It is not really a "big
deal". You have to be careful and make sure that the center of gravity
of the lathe is inside the perimeter of crane legs and everything is
properly prevented from moving. As a precaution, I always throw a
couple of bags of soil on the back of the crane when lifting heavy
stuff on a driveway.

Sandbags are a good idea.


I loaded a Clausing 8530 mill on my pickup using my crane. See

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/packing/clausing/


Let's see if I'm following. You started out by using the hoist to
remove the head. Then I guess you removed the table and knee either w/o
the crane or with it and then re-hoisted the head. No accusation - just
hoping I'm not missing the obvious. Were there any tricks to load
balancing the table and knee? Any tricks to attaching to them?

Did you hoist the base and column? Are there holes for that purpose? I
would not expect much trouble clearing a 4" palette. But then you
apparently cleared a 3 ft pickup bed. Were there any tricks to that?
You appear to even have done it with the palette thrown in there. How
did that work?

Then you hoisted the head, table and knee into position on top of the
truck. Again I start to wonder about height. Did you have trouble
getting the knee over its way? Then you added components and built a
box around it. Wood blocks under the knee to help support it are no
surprise.

Any concerns about being so far back on the truck bed? Top-heaviness of
the box? What did you do to secure it to the bed?

If you don't mind saying, what was the goal, and/or destination? Was
the idea to remove it via forklift?


Observe proper precautions, that is, go slow, do not stand under load,
keep things as low as possible, think about what can go wrong, etc.

Understood. I did a fairly good job of that with my mill-drill, but
found that I was correct to question the guy telling me not to worry
about it. Also, the lathe will weigh more than the mill-drill, so some
extra planning won't hurt.

Thanks,

Bill

Ignoramus27804 wrote:

On 2007-10-13, Bill Schwab wrote:

Pete, Iggie,


Nope, 1,000# is pretty manageable. When it gets over 2,000# then you
start to tax "normal" home shop rigging supplies.

Yep, I consider 1,000 lbs to be a more or less a DIY job

That's just the kind of thing I am hoping to learn. Some questions a

What are the best options for DIYing a 1000 lb lathe into and out of a
pickup?


Shipping terminal is best for getting it into pickup.

Getting out would be done with a "shop crane", especially if you try
to take off all removable parts.

I would not try to unload a 2,000 lbs anything. I paid someone to
deliver my Bridgeport and I am very happy with that decision.


How sharp is the 2000 lb cutoff? Would you rig a mill at that weight,
or seek help?


I would seek help.

i


A chain hoist properly fastened to the garage ceiling would make
unloading easy. A couple of tempory vertical columns on each side of
the ceiling attach point would hold 1000 lbs.

John

On 2007-10-13, Bill Schwab wrote:
Iggie,

You should be able to unload a 1,000 lbs lathe from a pickup using a
"shop crane", a.k.a. "engine hoist". You can make this even easier by
removing various parts from the lathe.

I have just such a crane, which I bought initially to handle my mill,
and now can't imagine how I ever got by w/o one

I cannot imagine living without one either.


It is not really a "big
deal". You have to be careful and make sure that the center of gravity
of the lathe is inside the perimeter of crane legs and everything is
properly prevented from moving. As a precaution, I always throw a
couple of bags of soil on the back of the crane when lifting heavy
stuff on a driveway.

Sandbags are a good idea.

I used topsoil, but it is the same thing. It never hurts and can
possibly save me from the consequences of unintentionally doing
something stupid.


I loaded a Clausing 8530 mill on my pickup using my crane. See

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/packing/clausing/


Let's see if I'm following. You started out by using the hoist to
remove the head. Then I guess you removed the table and knee either w/o
the crane or with it and then re-hoisted the head. No accusation - just
hoping I'm not missing the obvious. Were there any tricks to load
balancing the table and knee? Any tricks to attaching to them?

I do not actually remember. I know that I took it off my truck with
the head attached. I then cleaned it, used a little and resold on
eBay. ($850 bought me that mill and a Clausing lathe, I sold the lathe
for $500 and the mill for $1,800, the buyer paid me also big money to
crate the mill).

Did you hoist the base and column? Are there holes for that purpose? I
would not expect much trouble clearing a 4" palette. But then you
apparently cleared a 3 ft pickup bed. Were there any tricks to that?
You appear to even have done it with the palette thrown in there. How
did that work?

Worked OK.

I lifted it and then drove my truck underneath.

Then you hoisted the head, table and knee into position on top of the
truck. Again I start to wonder about height. Did you have trouble
getting the knee over its way? Then you added components and built a
box around it. Wood blocks under the knee to help support it are no
surprise.

I think that it was the rec.crafts.metalworking suggestion.

Any concerns about being so far back on the truck bed? Top-heaviness of
the box? What did you do to secure it to the bed?

Tiedowns.

If you don't mind saying, what was the goal, and/or destination? Was
the idea to remove it via forklift?

The goal was to deliver to terminal.

i

According to Bill Schwab :
Pete, Iggie,

Nope, 1,000# is pretty manageable. When it gets over 2,000# then you
start to tax "normal" home shop rigging supplies.

Yep, I consider 1,000 lbs to be a more or less a DIY job

That's just the kind of thing I am hoping to learn. Some questions a

What are the best options for DIYing a 1000 lb lathe into and out of a
pickup? Is it reasonable to do w/o a trailer? I might have to ask some
follow up questions because my driveway isn't the friendliest.

Well ... I carried both an 800 pound 12x24" Clausing lathe with
bed turret, and later an 1100 pound Nichols horizontal mill up the
driveway to my garage^H^H^H^H^H^Hshop with a 3/4 ton pickup. The lathe
was moved directly from the side of the high flatbed to the pickup
(which was backed down the driveway to the side of the truck) with the
help of a ramp made of five 10' lengths of 2x4 bolted edge up to deck
planking with lag screws. The lathe was slid down this ramp into the
bed of the pickup, and then tied down to the corner anchors of the
pickup's bed. The ramp was on top of the edge of the tailgate to
provide something closer to a horizontal surface while the pickup was on
the rather steep driveway. (Oh yes -- the pickup was 4WD and thus
rather tall anyway.)

Once the pickup was outside the driveway and parked, the end of
the ramp was lifted by hand (two people) and the tailgate was lowered --
below the horizontal point by disconnecting the support arms. Then the
lathe and ramp were moved out over the tailgate until we reached a point
where the ramp could be tilted to provide an angled surface down to the
garage floor. Mountain climbing rope went from a carabiner at one
corner of the bed, around the front of the lathe, to another carabiner
with several turns, and then to my wife to "tail" (feed it gently -- the
several turns made it easy for her to control the weight via friction.

We slid it down the ramp, and onto the garage floor, eventually
fully inside. At this point, the ramp was jacked up clear of the
tailgate (using a floor jack) and the pickup was driven clear. A bit of
cribbing allowed the gentle lowering and removal of the ramp.

Later, a borrowed engine hoist lifted it clear of the pallet on
which it was mounted, and it ws transferred directly to the floor.

The milling machine was more top-heavy, and was also crushing
the pallet, so the moving company had put another under it. The driver
knew where a fork lift was available which could be used to transfer it to
the pickup (and on top of the same ramp). The pallet disintegrating
was a bit of a problem. We drove some 4x4s into the bottom pallet to
keep it from being crushed as well, then worked at removing the parts of
the top pallet. Once that was done, we were able to put a similar
arrangement of mountain climbing rope and carabiners to support the top
end of the milling machine as it slid down the ramp -- assisted by a
come-along anchored deeper into the garage. Final removal was again
with a lot of cribbing removed one 2x4 at a time from each side. The
engine hoist was not available at the time. I now have my own. All
told, the hardest work was levering up one side at a time to remove the
parts of the top pallet so we could have a flat surface under the 1100
pounds.

How sharp is the 2000 lb cutoff? Would you rig a mill at that weight,
or seek help?

I'm not sure about a 2000 pound mill, but a 3500 pound one (my
first heavy tool) involved renting a forklift to remove it from the
truck and get it up the driveway. Once it was indoors (placed by the
fork lift) the remainder of moving it involved Johnson bars and pipe
rollers. For this, I had three friends, one of whom was experienced in
moving heavy machines.

And -- as always -- if something is starting to topple, *don't*
try to stop it, and warn all of your helpers to just get clear too.
Trying to stop it can lead to too much damage to people, instead of to
replaceable machines.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 06:50:28 -0500, Prometheus wrote:

My basement is at street level,...

That's Cheating! ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

DoN,

The lathe
was moved directly from the side of the high flatbed to the pickup
(which was backed down the driveway to the side of the truck) with the
help of a ramp made of five 10' lengths of 2x4 bolted edge up to deck
planking with lag screws. The lathe was slid down this ramp into the
bed of the pickup, and then tied down to the corner anchors of the
pickup's bed. The ramp was on top of the edge of the tailgate to
provide something closer to a horizontal surface while the pickup was on
the rather steep driveway. (Oh yes -- the pickup was 4WD and thus
rather tall anyway.)

So you have what amounts to a 4WD F-250?? Sorry for any offense re
brand loyalty In my case, I am fairly neutral, though very impressed
with the F-150 the fell out of my search for "older but worth having".

The ramp went from the truck to your vertical tailgate, and then the
lathe slid into the bed. Did the ramp pivot as the weight crossed the
gate? Any concerns about that much weight resting largely on the gate,
or am I missing how it worked?


Once the pickup was outside the driveway and parked, the end of
the ramp was lifted by hand (two people) and the tailgate was lowered --
below the horizontal point by disconnecting the support arms. Then the
lathe and ramp were moved out over the tailgate until we reached a point
where the ramp could be tilted to provide an angled surface down to the
garage floor. Mountain climbing rope went from a carabiner at one
corner of the bed, around the front of the lathe, to another carabiner
with several turns, and then to my wife to "tail" (feed it gently -- the
several turns made it easy for her to control the weight via friction.

That approach would allow me to back up to my garage and place the load
on its level floor. I am skeptical of achieving that with my hoist
because of the garage door, but will measure to see if it has a chance;
it would be great if the distances add up. Failing that, the "hoist and
drive out from under it" idea would put it near the garage on the
driveway. The slope there isn't much, and some leverage and sliding
should get it the rest of the way. There is small step up from driveway
to garage floor; something I never noticed until I had to get a 700 lb
mill to climb it on an engine hoist.

You mentioned anchoring a come-along deeper in your garage. Any
recommendations for doing that w/o (much anyway) damage to the house?



The milling machine was more top-heavy, and was also crushing
[snip]
told, the hardest work was levering up one side at a time to remove the
parts of the top pallet so we could have a flat surface under the 1100
pounds.

The smallest mill I am considering right now weighs 1650 lb, which by my
understanding is a trailer job. For the initial arrival, I would
probably attack it by a receive and redeliver trick, if only to avoid
surprises that might waste a driver's time. For a local move, I am
curious about breaking it down and moving the pieces. I am in no hurry
to move, but it might be nice to be able to ease the financial pain and
perhaps take better care of the machines by relocating them myself.



How sharp is the 2000 lb cutoff? Would you rig a mill at that weight,
or seek help?

I'm not sure about a 2000 pound mill, but a 3500 pound one (my
first heavy tool) involved renting a forklift to remove it from the
truck and get it up the driveway. Once it was indoors (placed by the
fork lift) the remainder of moving it involved Johnson bars and pipe
rollers. For this, I had three friends, one of whom was experienced in
moving heavy machines.

How did that cost compare to hiring a rigger?


And -- as always -- if something is starting to topple, *don't*
try to stop it, and warn all of your helpers to just get clear too.
Trying to stop it can lead to too much damage to people, instead of to
replaceable machines.

Good advice.

Thanks!

Bill

According to Bill Schwab :
DoN,

The lathe
was moved directly from the side of the high flatbed to the pickup
(which was backed down the driveway to the side of the truck) with the
help of a ramp made of five 10' lengths of 2x4 bolted edge up to deck
planking with lag screws. The lathe was slid down this ramp into the
bed of the pickup, and then tied down to the corner anchors of the
pickup's bed. The ramp was on top of the edge of the tailgate to
provide something closer to a horizontal surface while the pickup was on
the rather steep driveway. (Oh yes -- the pickup was 4WD and thus
rather tall anyway.)

So you have what amounts to a 4WD F-250??

Well ... I don't know the F-250, so I can't compare them. What
I have is a Mazda B2600i (big 4 cylinder engine). This was made just
before the "partnership" with Ford, and the engine has a real timing
chain (visible through the oil port) instead of a timing belt.

Sorry for any offense re
brand loyalty In my case, I am fairly neutral, though very impressed
with the F-150 the fell out of my search for "older but worth having".

O.K.

The ramp went from the truck to your vertical tailgate, and then the
lathe slid into the bed. Did the ramp pivot as the weight crossed the
gate?

No -- the other end of the ramp was near the cab end of the bed.
I slowly backed my truck towards the delivery truck until the foot of
the ramp was against the back of the bed, so it would not slide while
the lathe was on it.

Any concerns about that much weight resting largely on the gate,
or am I missing how it worked?

The ramp was above the gate when the lathe passed over it. Once
the lathe was as far towards the cab as the pallet would allow (heavy
headstock end towards the cab), I checked the force needed to lift the
far (delivery truck) end of the ramp, and felt comfortable letting that
rest on the upright tailgate. I put a jack under the ramp right by the
tailgate (inside the bed) and jacked it up just enough to clear the
delivery truck so I could drive forward a little and let it gently down
onto the tailgate. Once at the garage, I tried lifting the end again,
and felt comfortable letting the tailgate down and by hand lowering the
ramp until it was flat on the bed.

[ ... ]

That approach would allow me to back up to my garage and place the load
on its level floor. I am skeptical of achieving that with my hoist
because of the garage door, but will measure to see if it has a chance;
it would be great if the distances add up. Failing that, the "hoist and
drive out from under it" idea would put it near the garage on the
driveway. The slope there isn't much, and some leverage and sliding
should get it the rest of the way. There is small step up from driveway
to garage floor; something I never noticed until I had to get a 700 lb
mill to climb it on an engine hoist.

I didn't have an engine hoist until the next day, when I could
drive the pickup to pick it up. :-)

You mentioned anchoring a come-along deeper in your garage. Any
recommendations for doing that w/o (much anyway) damage to the house?

Well ... you probably don't have what I used. I already had a
3500 pound CNC Bridgeport about as far into the garage as I could get
it, and a 2" web strap around the base of the Bridgeport offered a place
to hook the come-along. :-)

BTW I also used that same web strap (which was sewn into a circle
with a pair of hook plates on it -- Army surplus) when lifting
the lathe with the engine hoist. There, the ends of the loop
went under the (rather stiff) chip tray at both ends coming out
past the front and back edges, and I shifted the hook plates
closer to the headstock end for balance, and tied around the web
straps to keep it from sliding towards the lighter end.

The real trick was getting the engine hoist close enough without
the legs interfering with the pallet. I had to approach from the
headstock end, unbolt the lathe from the pallet, lift the lathe clear,
slide the pallet out, and then rotate the lathe so it was at right
angles to the beam and legs of the hoist and lower it onto cribbing to
let the legs be rolled out from under it. Then, it was the floor jack
and removing cribbing from one end, then the other back and forth until
it was on the floor.

As for the come-along and the milling machine below -- there was
a T-shaped pit (with curbs to keep from driving into the T-bar or the
pit) at the far end. I put a length of aluminum I-beam across the T-bar
and pulled it against that, which gave me a good pull into the garage
with no chance of damaging the poured concrete pit. Again, something
which is not present in most home garages. :-)



The milling machine was more top-heavy, and was also crushing
[snip]
told, the hardest work was levering up one side at a time to remove the
parts of the top pallet so we could have a flat surface under the 1100
pounds.

The smallest mill I am considering right now weighs 1650 lb, which by my
understanding is a trailer job. For the initial arrival, I would
probably attack it by a receive and redeliver trick, if only to avoid
surprises that might waste a driver's time. For a local move, I am
curious about breaking it down and moving the pieces. I am in no hurry
to move, but it might be nice to be able to ease the financial pain and
perhaps take better care of the machines by relocating them myself.

You'll probably need the engine host to break down the mill. Is
it a vertical or horizontal spindle mill? In any case, you will
probably want someone with some experience in taking things like that
apart -- especially if you remove the knee after removing the table and
saddle. The Bridgeports have tapered gibs, and if you lower the knee
with the wrong things loose, you will wedge the gibs firmly in place,
making it quite difficult to get apart without damage to the machine.
(No -- I haven't done this.) The only thing removed from my Bridgeport
when I brought it in was the 2JP three-phase motor. All the cabinets
full of heavy three-phase transformers and saturable reactors were still
installed. (CNC of that vintage adds a *lot* of weight to the machine. :-)


How sharp is the 2000 lb cutoff? Would you rig a mill at that weight,
or seek help?

I'm not sure about a 2000 pound mill, but a 3500 pound one (my
first heavy tool) involved renting a forklift to remove it from the
truck and get it up the driveway. Once it was indoors (placed by the
fork lift) the remainder of moving it involved Johnson bars and pipe
rollers. For this, I had three friends, one of whom was experienced in
moving heavy machines.

How did that cost compare to hiring a rigger?

I didn't know about hiring riggers then. I think that the fork
lift rental (including delivery and eventual pick-up) was something like
$600.00. But this was over ten years ago, so my memory is probably
rather poor at this point.

And -- as always -- if something is starting to topple, *don't*
try to stop it, and warn all of your helpers to just get clear too.
Trying to stop it can lead to too much damage to people, instead of to
replaceable machines.

Good advice.

Always remember to warn everybody when you start, and several
times more during the operation.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN,

Well ... I don't know the F-250, so I can't compare them. What
I have is a Mazda B2600i (big 4 cylinder engine). This was made just
before the "partnership" with Ford, and the engine has a real timing
chain (visible through the oil port) instead of a timing belt.

My 1990 Sentra has a chain, which is new as of a couple of years ago,
along with the gears, guides, chain and water pump - that scream you
heard around that time was me seeing the estimate



No -- the other end of the ramp was near the cab end of the bed.
I slowly backed my truck towards the delivery truck until the foot of
the ramp was against the back of the bed, so it would not slide while
the lathe was on it.

Got it.


Any concerns about that much weight resting largely on the gate,
or am I missing how it worked?

The ramp was above the gate when the lathe passed over it.
[snip]

Got it.




You mentioned anchoring a come-along deeper in your garage. Any
recommendations for doing that w/o (much anyway) damage to the house?

Well ... you probably don't have what I used. I already had a
3500 pound CNC Bridgeport about as far into the garage as I could get
it, and a 2" web strap around the base of the Bridgeport offered a place
to hook the come-along. :-)

First the chicken and egg, and now this


The real trick was getting the engine hoist close enough without
the legs interfering with the pallet.

That can be a problem.


I had to approach from the
headstock end, unbolt the lathe from the pallet, lift the lathe clear,
slide the pallet out, and then rotate the lathe so it was at right
angles to the beam and legs of the hoist and lower it onto cribbing to
let the legs be rolled out from under it. Then, it was the floor jack
and removing cribbing from one end, then the other back and forth until
it was on the floor.

Was the lathe too big to lower between the legs when aligned with the
boom? I've wondered about that, but cribbing would fix it.


You'll probably need the engine host to break down the mill. Is
it a vertical or horizontal spindle mill?

I suspect I will buy vertical.


In any case, you will
probably want someone with some experience in taking things like that
apart -- especially if you remove the knee after removing the table and
saddle. The Bridgeports have tapered gibs, and if you lower the knee
with the wrong things loose, you will wedge the gibs firmly in place,
making it quite difficult to get apart without damage to the machine.

Thanks for the cautions. It is something that I would want to
understand how to do, but I do not want to hinge the arrival on it. The
1650 lb 8x36 mill is sounding a little better than it originally did,
but there is no rush at the moment.

Thanks,

Bill

Hello all,

I think I found a good mover. He estimates $500 to receive and
re-deliver a mill, and $100 to receive and load a lathe. To move
equipment locally, they start talking about minimum times; it's not
outrageous, but I am a little perplexed at why they do not do that type
of thing on the delivery side. The delivery price does not include
removing the machine from the palette, which means they can get in and
out quickly - is that the difference?

Bill

john wrote:

A chain hoist properly fastened to the garage ceiling would make
unloading easy. A couple of tempory vertical columns on each side of
the ceiling attach point would hold 1000 lbs.


A very risky thing to do since "Properly fastened" and properly
supported can be complex. Basically the hoist needs an independent
support structure to carry the load and not rely on the building
structure for anything but lateral support. Spending the $500 or so on
Harbor Freights small gantry is a much better idea and the repair cost
when you collapse the garage ceiling and the roof or room above it will
be a lot more than $500.

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

And -- as always -- if something is starting to topple, *don't*
try to stop it, and warn all of your helpers to just get clear too.
Trying to stop it can lead to too much damage to people, instead of to
replaceable machines.


That is *the* most important rigging rule, and why I am typically leery
of having anyone assist me with any rigging project. Fortunately I don't
have any friends nearby (ditched them 1,700 miles away a few years back)
so it's not much of an issue. Of course I also have nobody to remove
stuff from on top of me if there were to be an "event" so it makes the
rule even more important.

Plan you lift before lifting anything, consider *every* possible failure
point (sling, chain, shackle, cribbing, etc.) and what would happen in
the event of that failure. Check clearances and plan escape routes. Much
easier to fix a machine than a person.

DoN. Nichols wrote:
(snip)
And -- as always -- if something is starting to topple, *don't*
try to stop it, and warn all of your helpers to just get clear too.
Trying to stop it can lead to too much damage to people, instead of to
replaceable machines.

Good Luck,
DoN.

Seconded. I just got my Quincy compressor home Friday night, and just
about everything that could go wrong did. The helpers my BIL arranged for
showed up drunk. We were able to get the compressor off the trailer with
a 2 ton engine hoist, and I was able to convince them to go home rather
than trying to get it into the garage, as we couldn't get it off of the
hoist without additional equipment. The next day I took another look at
the compressor and thought it looked pretty unstable. So I went to chock
it up with some wood. However the extra 1/2" I raised to be able to slide
the wood under it was too much. Tipped over on its side.

When it started moving, so did I. In the opposite direction at top speed.

Total damage after getting it flipped back with a comealong and chains to
keep it from going in the wrong direction: Air filter need to be replace,
and the pully guard needs to be banged back into shape.

Had I tried to stop it from flipping? I probably wouldn't be writing
this. The compressor weighs in at 2010 pounds.

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 17:22:39 -0400, john
wrote:

A chain hoist properly fastened to the garage ceiling would make
unloading easy. A couple of tempory vertical columns on each side of
the ceiling attach point would hold 1000 lbs.

You are making some Really Huge Assumptions without knowing a single
thing about the structure you suggest be used as a lifting point. And
it's rash assumptions like that which get people hurt or killed, when
the building comes down on them.

But that's okay, we know you wouldn't dare try it yourself. But
it's real easy to make a Usenet posing for some other schlub to do it
at his house. ;-)

It might be doable IF there's a suitable heavy wood structural beam
(Say a 6"x16" supporting a set-back 2nd floor room) already right
where you need it...

and IF you can rig a suitable pick point fitting to spread the load
evenly from a lifting eye onto the beam...

and IF you can place lally columns to get that extra load down to
the floor with as short a span as possible...

and IF you can provide enough cribbing to spread the load out on the
garage floor slab - remember, there's no footings and if the sub-soil
wasn't compacted right or is water saturated a heavily loaded column
foot could punch right through.

Concrete doesn't carry tension loads worth beans, and they don't
require much steel in a garage slab - might have one sheet of 1/8" x
6" x 6" welded wire if you're lucky, and that's nothing.

Before I tried a trick like that, I'd invite my friend the Architect
and his wife the Civil Engineer over to take a look (I'd probably end
up buying dinner...) and make sure I was on the right track and not
overlooking something obvious. And potentially deadly.

-- Bruce --

I lifted a 2,200 lbs Bridgeport off my garage ceiling using a chain hoist.

The load was spread across about 5 6x2's using a "crossbeam" made of a
6x6.

The lifting point was about 5 feet away from one of the walls.

This is not something that I would recommend, ie I will not come help
scraping your remains off the floor if you do the same thing and your
mill falls on you.

i

On Oct 15, 10:40 am, Ignoramus31535 ignoramus31...@NOSPAM.
31535.invalid wrote:
I lifted a 2,200 lbs Bridgeport off my garage ceiling using a chain hoist.

The load was spread across about 5 6x2's using a "crossbeam" made of a
6x6.

The lifting point was about 5 feet away from one of the walls.

This is not something that I would recommend, ie I will not come help
scraping your remains off the floor if you do the same thing and your
mill falls on you.

i

Would you do the lift the same way today? Was there any
indication, while lifting, that you were being unsafe (i.e. Any
sagging of the rafters or ANY nasty creaking or snapping
sounds). If none of the above, and you protected the rafters
against being damaged by your chain, then I'd say "You got
it right."

dennis
in nca

On 2007-10-15, rigger wrote:
On Oct 15, 10:40 am, Ignoramus31535 ignoramus31...@NOSPAM.
31535.invalid wrote:
I lifted a 2,200 lbs Bridgeport off my garage ceiling using a chain hoist.

The load was spread across about 5 6x2's using a "crossbeam" made of a
6x6.

The lifting point was about 5 feet away from one of the walls.

This is not something that I would recommend, ie I will not come help
scraping your remains off the floor if you do the same thing and your
mill falls on you.

i

Would you do the lift the same way today?

Yes.

Was there any indication, while lifting, that you were being unsafe
(i.e. Any sagging of the rafters or ANY nasty creaking or snapping
sounds).

None that I recall.

If none of the above, and you protected the rafters against being
damaged by your chain, then I'd say "You got it right."

The chain did not touch the rafters. The way it worked is that above
the ceiling, a 6x6 was thrown perpendiculat to the rafters. The chain
hoist was below the ceiling and attached to rafters by means of 1/2"
threaded rod.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/ChainHoist/

Pete,

john wrote:
A chain hoist properly fastened to the garage ceiling would make
unloading easy. A couple of tempory vertical columns on each side of
the ceiling attach point would hold 1000 lbs.


A very risky thing to do since "Properly fastened" and properly
supported can be complex. Basically the hoist needs an independent
support structure to carry the load and not rely on the building
structure for anything but lateral support. Spending the $500 or so on
Harbor Freights small gantry is a much better idea and the repair cost
when you collapse the garage ceiling and the roof or room above it will
be a lot more than $500.

Thanks for the suggestion:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=41188

So many tools, so little time

Thanks!

Bill

Are you saying your rigger charges way more to remove the machine from
the pallet? If so, he may be using his own flatbed tow truck or drop
deck trailer (and hand pallet jack) to deliver if you don't want the
machine separated from the pallet. Lifting the machine off the pallet
would require bringing a forklift.

Regardless, do consider paying extra to get them to remove the
pallet. Enco's pallets are big and bulky and, in my opinion, it would
be very difficult to separate the machine from the pallet without a
forklift.

On Oct 15, 8:20 am, Bill Schwab wrote:
Hello all,

I think I found a good mover. He estimates $500 to receive and
re-deliver a mill, and $100 to receive and load a lathe. To move
equipment locally, they start talking about minimum times; it's not
outrageous, but I am a little perplexed at why they do not do that type
of thing on the delivery side. The delivery price does not include
removing the machine from the palette, which means they can get in and
out quickly - is that the difference?

Bill

"Pete C." wrote:

john wrote:

A chain hoist properly fastened to the garage ceiling would make
unloading easy. A couple of tempory vertical columns on each side of
the ceiling attach point would hold 1000 lbs.


A very risky thing to do since "Properly fastened" and properly
supported can be complex. Basically the hoist needs an independent
support structure to carry the load and not rely on the building
structure for anything but lateral support.


That is exactly what I was saying with a properly fastened hoist.

Spending the $500 or so on
Harbor Freights small gantry is a much better idea and the repair cost
when you collapse the garage ceiling and the roof or room above it will
be a lot more than $500.

Gantry cranes can be very dangerous if you are not familiar with using
them. If you are moving a load and you hit a small bump it is very
possible that the gantry will be pulled over by the swinging weight
caused by the sudden stoppage of the gantry.


I will correct what I said...... If you have no experience in moving
heavy loads don't attempt it..... get a company with a rollback to move
it for you. It will probably cost you a lot less than a rigger.


John

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote:

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 17:22:39 -0400, john
wrote:

A chain hoist properly fastened to the garage ceiling would make
unloading easy. A couple of tempory vertical columns on each side of
the ceiling attach point would hold 1000 lbs.

You are making some Really Huge Assumptions without knowing a single
thing about the structure you suggest be used as a lifting point. And
it's rash assumptions like that which get people hurt or killed, when
the building comes down on them.

I did not make any rash assumptions, I said a properly fastened hoist
with vertical columns would support a 1000 pound load.

But that's okay, we know you wouldn't dare try it yourself. But
it's real easy to make a Usenet posing for some other schlub to do it
at his house. ;-)

Now you are making assumptions. I move heavy parts every day with
weights up to over two tons. I have lifted many heavy machines with
temporary setups and never dropped any of them.

It might be doable IF there's a suitable heavy wood structural beam
(Say a 6"x16" supporting a set-back 2nd floor room) already right
where you need it...

and IF you can rig a suitable pick point fitting to spread the load
evenly from a lifting eye onto the beam...

Its only 1000 lb. not five ton.



and IF you can place lally columns to get that extra load down to
the floor with as short a span as possible...

and IF you can provide enough cribbing to spread the load out on the
garage floor slab - remember, there's no footings and if the sub-soil
wasn't compacted right or is water saturated a heavily loaded column
foot could punch right through. and if there is an abandoned mine shaft under the house and if a fault line had opened a fissure under the concrete and if it has rained for the past 40 days and the whole house is about to slide down the hill and if......

a heavily loaded column,,, 1000 lbs on two columns... that puts 500 lb.
on each post.
If the post is only four square inches in section, that would be about
125 lbs per sq inch hardly enough to punch through the concrete even
without using a bottom plate.



Concrete doesn't carry tension loads worth beans, and they don't
require much steel in a garage slab - might have one sheet of 1/8" x
6" x 6" welded wire if you're lucky, and that's nothing.


I though it was a garage... cars weigh a lot more than 1000 lbs.

Before I tried a trick like that, I'd invite my friend the Architect
and his wife the Civil Engineer over to take a look (I'd probably end
up buying dinner...) and make sure I was on the right track and not
overlooking something obvious. And potentially deadly.

Id make sure he or she has had a PE for at least 20 years, just to be
real safe, in fact come to think of it the machinery itself is not safe
to run so I would forget the whole idea.


John

Albert,

Not really, I'm saying that when I asked (for future reference) what it
cost to move the machine across town, he began talking in time, minimum
time charges, etc. It all sounded reasonable, but it was quite a
departure from, "sure, we'll receive and deliver for $500" which sounds
like a flat rate in his mind.

You raise an excellent point about the fork lift. My shop crane should
be able to lift the mill (especially up to a ton), but getting the legs
around the palette might be another story.

Again, I am most likely going to buy a lathe before deciding on another
mill. At 1000 lb, it should be something I can handle. Any takers on
how far a shop crane boom would have to be above the bed of the truck to
lift a 12x36 lathe off of a palette in the bed?

Bill




Albert wrote:
Are you saying your rigger charges way more to remove the machine from
the pallet? If so, he may be using his own flatbed tow truck or drop
deck trailer (and hand pallet jack) to deliver if you don't want the
machine separated from the pallet. Lifting the machine off the pallet
would require bringing a forklift.

Regardless, do consider paying extra to get them to remove the
pallet. Enco's pallets are big and bulky and, in my opinion, it would
be very difficult to separate the machine from the pallet without a
forklift.

On Oct 15, 8:20 am, Bill Schwab wrote:
Hello all,

I think I found a good mover. He estimates $500 to receive and
re-deliver a mill, and $100 to receive and load a lathe. To move
equipment locally, they start talking about minimum times; it's not
outrageous, but I am a little perplexed at why they do not do that type
of thing on the delivery side. The delivery price does not include
removing the machine from the palette, which means they can get in and
out quickly - is that the difference?

Bill

Just remember Fudds first rule of opposition;

"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over"

Firesign theater, in the 70's

Bob

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 05:36:07 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

Just remember Fudds first rule of opposition;

"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over"

Firesign theater, in the 70's

We're all bozos on this bus, Bob.

--
Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives.
-- A. Sachs

On Oct 16, 7:38 pm, Bill Schwab wrote:
Albert,

snip discussion

Generally most lathes are very "headstock heavy" which is
very fortunate for someone removing one from a pallet.

If the overall weight of a lathe is, for example, 1000# it's
usually a simple matter to unbolt the lathe and, with the
help of a friend, manually swivel the lathe, bringing the
tailstock end around/over the side of the skid and set it
on the floor. This is accomplished by leaving one bolt
loose, but still through the machine and skid, and using
your lift to pickup/pull the tailstock end (unless you and
your friend are big, chunky, machinery mover types).

The bolt I'd leave loose normally would be on the head-
stock end of the machine closest to the front of the
machine. If you have 4 bolts rather than two on the
headstock end then I'd use the one at the front and
closest to the point of balance of the machine.

By keeping most of the weight on the pallet (headstock
end) and still somewhat fastened, you stabilize the mach-
ine, preventing it from twisting (which is the common
way to begin dropping such a machine).

Does this make sense to you?

dennis
in nca

On Oct 17, 9:20 am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 05:36:07 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

Just remember Fudds first rule of opposition;

"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over"

Firesign theater, in the 70's

We're all bozos on this bus, Bob.

--
Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives.
-- A. Sachs

LOL Larry, I wasn't sure of which album, thought it may have been
"Don't crush that dwarf, Hand me the Pliars". There cannot be many
here (or anywhere) that have ever heard or remember this stuff. Lots
of classics, Rocky Rococo, Nick Danger, etc.

Bob

On Oct 17, 9:20 am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 05:36:07 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

Just remember Fudds first rule of opposition;

"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over"

Firesign theater, in the 70's

We're all bozos on this bus, Bob.

--
Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives.
-- A. Sachs

LOL Larry, I wasn't sure of which album, thought it may have been
"Don't crush that dwarf, Hand me the Pliars". There cannot be many
here (or anywhere) that have ever heard or remember this stuff. Lots
of classics, Rocky Rococo, Nick Danger, etc.

Bob

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 17, 9:20 am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 05:36:07 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

Just remember Fudds first rule of opposition;

"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over"

Firesign theater, in the 70's

We're all bozos on this bus, Bob.

--
Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives.
-- A. Sachs

LOL Larry, I wasn't sure of which album, thought it may have been
"Don't crush that dwarf, Hand me the Pliars". There cannot be many
here (or anywhere) that have ever heard or remember this stuff. Lots
of classics, Rocky Rococo, Nick Danger, etc.

I think that half the Baby Boomers in America who attended college in the
'60s or '70s remember them well. Whenever they come up in a conversation
among people of that approximate age, somebody will say, "All out for Fort
Stinkindesert." d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

Bill et al,

Liftgate truck rental:
I've had good luck with renting liftgate trucks from penske. (In the
Boston, MA area.)
I've moved an older (round ram) Bridgport, and a Southbend heavy 10
lathe without incident. Penske has two types of liftgates, regular
and heavy-duty. I seem to recall that the heavy-duty ones were rated
to 3500 lbs. What I found esp. helpful about those were the larger
area of the liftgate. (though the rating margin was nice, given
sketchy info on the weight of an older mill.)

Other very handy tools:

Pallet jack
** Johnson Bar/Jo-bar (at mscdirect.com, I think they call this a
"pry dolly" ) **
pry bar,
Steel pipes,
Straps, chains,
Hydraulic jack,
Come-along,
Scrap wood

I got my BP off its pallet using the Jo-bar, pry bar, lots of scrap
lumber, the pipe, and one buddy. IMHO, you can do this sort of
machine moving yourself IFF you plan, replan, and think carefully
ahead of time about every possible thing that could go wrong. Slow
and steady does it.

HTH -- and best of luck,

Larry

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:07:14 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

On Oct 17, 9:20 am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 05:36:07 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

Just remember Fudds first rule of opposition;

"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over"

Firesign theater, in the 70's

We're all bozos on this bus, Bob.

--
Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives.
-- A. Sachs

LOL Larry, I wasn't sure of which album, thought it may have been
"Don't crush that dwarf, Hand me the Pliars". There cannot be many
here (or anywhere) that have ever heard or remember this stuff. Lots
of classics, Rocky Rococo, Nick Danger, etc.

"All Hail (Harpo Marx, Lennon)" was their best, fer sher.

More from Bozos, if my recollector recollects correctly:
"Look, there goes a boxcar full of industrial coke."
"Where's it headed?"
"Oh, there, it's going into the Executive Branch."

--
Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives.
-- A. Sachs

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:16:45 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


wrote in message
roups.com...
On Oct 17, 9:20 am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 05:36:07 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

Just remember Fudds first rule of opposition;

"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over"

Firesign theater, in the 70's

We're all bozos on this bus, Bob.

--
Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives.
-- A. Sachs

LOL Larry, I wasn't sure of which album, thought it may have been
"Don't crush that dwarf, Hand me the Pliars". There cannot be many
here (or anywhere) that have ever heard or remember this stuff. Lots
of classics, Rocky Rococo, Nick Danger, etc.

I think that half the Baby Boomers in America who attended college in the
'60s or '70s remember them well. Whenever they come up in a conversation
among people of that approximate age, somebody will say, "All out for Fort
Stinkindesert." d8-)

I've found only a dozen folks so far, both here Wreck.Metal and on the
Wreck) who remember them. Most people I've talked to don't have any
idea what I'm talking about and they think I'm even weirder than I
really am. Yes, I know. That's pretty tough to do.

....talking to my wall...

--
Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives.
-- A. Sachs

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:16:45 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


wrote in message
groups.com...
On Oct 17, 9:20 am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 05:36:07 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

Just remember Fudds first rule of opposition;

"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over"

Firesign theater, in the 70's

We're all bozos on this bus, Bob.

--
Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone
lives.
-- A. Sachs

LOL Larry, I wasn't sure of which album, thought it may have been
"Don't crush that dwarf, Hand me the Pliars". There cannot be many
here (or anywhere) that have ever heard or remember this stuff. Lots
of classics, Rocky Rococo, Nick Danger, etc.

I think that half the Baby Boomers in America who attended college in the
'60s or '70s remember them well. Whenever they come up in a conversation
among people of that approximate age, somebody will say, "All out for Fort
Stinkindesert." d8-)

I've found only a dozen folks so far, both here Wreck.Metal and on the
Wreck) who remember them. Most people I've talked to don't have any
idea what I'm talking about and they think I'm even weirder than I
really am. Yes, I know. That's pretty tough to do.

...talking to my wall...

Firesign Theater was really popular among the kids I hung out with. My
neighbors remember them, too, which we remind ourselves about at our annual
Christmas party. When we get going I'm sure everyone else thinks we're nuts.
d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

According to Larry Jaques :
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:16:45 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:

[ ... ]

I think that half the Baby Boomers in America who attended college in the
'60s or '70s remember them well. Whenever they come up in a conversation
among people of that approximate age, somebody will say, "All out for Fort
Stinkindesert." d8-)

I've found only a dozen folks so far, both here Wreck.Metal and on the
Wreck) who remember them. Most people I've talked to don't have any
idea what I'm talking about and they think I'm even weirder than I
really am. Yes, I know. That's pretty tough to do.

Well ... I heard them -- though I was born a bit early for them,
but I was listening to the weird radio stations at the time which would
play the full recording from time to time.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Larry,

Liftgate truck rental:
I've had good luck with renting liftgate trucks from penske. (In the
Boston, MA area.)
I've moved an older (round ram) Bridgport, and a Southbend heavy 10
lathe without incident. Penske has two types of liftgates, regular
and heavy-duty. I seem to recall that the heavy-duty ones were rated
to 3500 lbs. What I found esp. helpful about those were the larger
area of the liftgate. (though the rating margin was nice, given
sketchy info on the weight of an older mill.)

That's a really interesting idea; I will check on local availability.
Did you do anything special to secure the machine in the truck? Any
concerns about the center of gravity? Did you invert the head? Note
that I know to ask about that, but that's about as far as it goes.


Other very handy tools:

Pallet jack

I am seriously considering getting one. The capacities are impressive,
and the prices are (gulp) reasonable. A stacker/work positioner would
probably do more for me, but would be no match for a mill where a
palette jack would. I already have an engine hoist, so some strong
dollies and a light stacker might be a better use of my money,
especially if I take it easy on the weight of the mill.


** Johnson Bar/Jo-bar (at mscdirect.com, I think they call this a
"pry dolly" ) **

Do you mean something like:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...MT4NO=31172429

I have not seen those before, but they do look useful. What is the
purpose of the wheel? Do the wheels spin, or are they fixed to the bar?
Having them spin seems counter-intuitive to me, but maybe that's just
because I've nudged some heavy loads around with a pry bar too many
times, and don't know what I'm missing.



pry bar,
Steel pipes,
Straps, chains,
Hydraulic jack,
Come-along,
Scrap wood

I do not yet have a come-along, but getting a couple of them is on my
list. I know exactly how to find an anchor for going out of the garage
(I keep finding new ways to use a pickup truckg), but getting an
anchor inside the garage is tougher.

The pipe idea is familiar, but bothers me a bit. Right or wrong, my
engine hoist feels safer to me. There have been mentions of combining a
hoist and heavy dollies, and also using a gantry crane. A gantry crane
could sit almost out of the way (over other stuff), but looks like a lot
of metal with not too many uses.



I got my BP off its pallet using the Jo-bar, pry bar, lots of scrap
lumber, the pipe, and one buddy. IMHO, you can do this sort of
machine moving yourself IFF you plan, replan, and think carefully
ahead of time about every possible thing that could go wrong. Slow
and steady does it.

Beyond just understanding what I am getting into in buying any
particular machine, I would very much like to be able to move (or at
least nudge) whatever I buy. Imagine storm damage that leaves water
pouring on the mill and/or the mill in the way of a temporary repair.
Being able to get it out of the way would seem really important in a hurry.

Thinking of it from that perspective, looking at the reactions here
regarding what is or isn't too heavy for a DIY move, what did and did
not ruffle movers, etc., it would be nice to stay under 2000 lb. There
are a couple of 8x36 machines that I might learn to like. One looks
attractive, but has sealed bearings, which I am not sure I want???

No rush, but thanks to all for the insights. I think a lathe is next,
but this has been very helpful. Anyone wanting to argue for a better
mill instead of a lathe? I think I'm too happy with my existing mill
for that to wash, but now would be a good time if you care to debate that

Bill

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 22:50:13 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:16:45 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:

We're all bozos on this bus, Bob.

LOL Larry, I wasn't sure of which album, thought it may have been
"Don't crush that dwarf, Hand me the Pliars". There cannot be many
here (or anywhere) that have ever heard or remember this stuff. Lots
of classics, Rocky Rococo, Nick Danger, etc.

I think that half the Baby Boomers in America who attended college in the
'60s or '70s remember them well. Whenever they come up in a conversation
among people of that approximate age, somebody will say, "All out for Fort
Stinkindesert." d8-)

I've found only a dozen folks so far, both here Wreck.Metal and on the
Wreck) who remember them. Most people I've talked to don't have any
idea what I'm talking about and they think I'm even weirder than I
really am. Yes, I know. That's pretty tough to do.

Firesign Theater was really popular among the kids I hung out with. My

Ditto my "pack", but not with many others.


neighbors remember them, too, which we remind ourselves about at our annual
Christmas party. When we get going I'm sure everyone else thinks we're nuts.
d8-)

They all still do, I'm sure.

"Roll up your sleeve and bend over. Do you want regular or Ethyl?"

--
History is often stranger than fiction. Fiction has to be plausible.
History is what happens when people don't follow the script.
--pete flip, RCM

According to Bill Schwab :
Larry,

[ ... ]

** Johnson Bar/Jo-bar (at mscdirect.com, I think they call this a
"pry dolly" ) **

Do you mean something like:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...MT4NO=31172429

I have not seen those before, but they do look useful. What is the
purpose of the wheel? Do the wheels spin, or are they fixed to the bar?
Having them spin seems counter-intuitive to me, but maybe that's just
because I've nudged some heavy loads around with a pry bar too many
times, and don't know what I'm missing.

Two of those can be used to move the machine by lifting one edge
and then rolling in the direction that edge points. Two of them can
also be use to lift one edge enough (with two people) to set the pipes
under that edge, and then moved to lift the other edge to allow it to
roll, while relaxing your force on the handle allows the lifted edge to
come back into contact to act as a brake.

They can also be used to lift an edge and fit mice under that
edge, and then you can move to the opposite edge to lift and allow motion
or set the edge back down to prevent motion while the mice permit motion
full time (until they are removed).

I don't have any (yet) but I do want to get them when the other
expenses go away for a while. (The air conditioner compressor seized up
Wednesday night, and will have to be replaced.)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Oct 18, 8:30 pm, (DoN. Nichols) wrote:
According to Bill Schwab :

Larry,

snip

They can also be used to lift an edge and fit mice under that
edge, and then you can move to the opposite edge to lift and
allow motion or set the edge back down to prevent motion
while the mice permit motion full time (until they are removed).

But what do the mice say about this?? Should someone not-
ify PETA?

In other words: What's "mice?" I've never heard the term used
in machinery moving before (however, mousing hooks is a term
I am familiar with).

dennis
in nca

Bill, et al,

Sorry for the delayed reply. Busy here.
Comments interspersed below.

-- L
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Oct 18, 12:52 am, Bill Schwab wrote:

snip
Re renting a liftgate truck:

That's a really interesting idea; I will check on local availability.

Fingers crossed that penske (or some other co.) will rent liftgates in
your area; it's a nice option to have.

Did you do anything special to secure the machine in the truck? Any
concerns about the center of gravity? Did you invert the head? Note
that I know to ask about that, but that's about as far as it goes.

My Bport was the first machine I moved -- probably could have done it
better.
That said:
We put down 3/4" plywood to roll the pallet jack (with the mill) over
the rough ground to the truck. Then used the liftgate to raise
everything (with the pallet jack "dropped" so it wouldn't roll, of
course), re-jacked once up to truck level, and slowly rolled the mill
next to the back wall of the truck, centered.
No, we didn't flip the head (the J1 head is much smaller and lower
than the J2.) We probably should have. (If you do, watch for oil.)
We lowered the knee to lower the cg, and blocked between the head and
the knee. We blocked the whole thing in with scrap lumber, and then
strapped and chained it in place. (The attachment points in those
rental trucks are not nearly has strong as I'd like for securing a
machine {they looked like cardboard compared to the chains}, but they
were better than nothing.) I drove home slowly and carefully, with a
friend serving as navigator/lookout.

Other very handy tools:

Pallet jack

I am seriously considering getting one. The capacities are impressive,
and the prices are (gulp) reasonable.

Unless you forsee repeated use, see if you can borrow one, or rent.
Save the $ for more tooling and metal!

** Johnson Bar/Jo-bar (at mscdirect.com, I think they call this a
"pry dolly" ) **

Do you mean something like:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...MT4NO=31172429

Yes. Very handy tool!
One reason I bought the Jo-Bar and not a pallet jack was that I could
borrow a pallet jack, but not a Jo-bar. Jo-bar is also easier to
store, and less cost.

I do not yet have a come-along, but getting a couple of them is on my
list. I know exactly how to find an anchor for going out of the garage
(I keep finding new ways to use a pickup truckg), but getting an
anchor inside the garage is tougher.

I ended up not needing to use the come-along on my end, though it was
handy for getting my lathe up a short flight of (concrete) stairs from
the seller's basement. I made prelim plans to put in a couple come-
along anchors in my garage. (masonry drill to set anchors into the
slab + big bolts into the anchors, holding a plate .... )

The pipe idea is familiar, but bothers me a bit. Right or wrong, my
engine hoist feels safer to me. There have been mentions of combining a
hoist and heavy dollies, and also using a gantry crane. A gantry crane
could sit almost out of the way (over other stuff), but looks like a lot
of metal with not too many uses.

I like the pipe because it keeps the cg low enough that (unless you
are really careless and have really small feet) you won't get your
foot under the load.) I wore steel toed boots, though I have little
illusion that they'd hold up if I dropped the mill on them.
It also helped that I had scrounged the pipe, gratis.
(Mine is 1.25" nominal, sch 40. Better to get sch 80, if you can.)

snip

Beyond just understanding what I am getting into in buying any
particular machine, I would very much like to be able to move (or at
least nudge) whatever I buy. Imagine storm damage that leaves water
pouring on the mill and/or the mill in the way of a temporary repair.
Being able to get it out of the way would seem really important in a hurry.

The Jo-bar and pipe would be good for this. But if you're worried
about that, I'd suggest keeping some plastic handy, and not hurrying,
even with water pouring in. (Rust can be cleaned up; injuries are not
always so forgiving....)

Thinking of it from that perspective, looking at the reactions here
regarding what is or isn't too heavy for a DIY move, what did and did
not ruffle movers, etc., it would be nice to stay under 2000 lb.

IMHO, there's nothing magic about 2000 lbs, or even 1000 Kg.
Instead, look at the ratings of the gear you're planning to use (and
the floors, too!), and apply both a healthy margin and lots of
thinking it through, beforehand..

HTH,

Larry

According to rigger :
On Oct 18, 8:30 pm, (DoN. Nichols) wrote:
According to Bill Schwab :

Larry,

snip

They can also be used to lift an edge and fit mice under that
edge, and then you can move to the opposite edge to lift and
allow motion or set the edge back down to prevent motion
while the mice permit motion full time (until they are removed).

But what do the mice say about this?? Should someone not-
ify PETA?

Probably not -- these are the Atlas of mice. :-)

In other words: What's "mice?" I've never heard the term used
in machinery moving before (however, mousing hooks is a term
I am familiar with).

A mouse is a little box with a series of rollers which circulate
around it -- sort of an infinite set of short pipe rollers except tha
these rollers are solid, not hollow.

They also have a "tail" (a handle which lets you control the
direction it is pointing), and a turret on the top to allow you to turn
the mouse body while there is weight on the top.

They are referred to in the plural, because you need at least
two to have reasonable balance and control.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Oct 19, 3:43 pm, (DoN. Nichols) wrote:
According to rigger :

On Oct 18, 8:30 pm, (DoN. Nichols) wrote:
According to Bill Schwab :

Larry,

snip

They can also be used to lift an edge and fit mice under that
edge, and then you can move to the opposite edge to lift and
allow motion or set the edge back down to prevent motion
while the mice permit motion full time (until they are removed).

But what do the mice say about this?? Should someone not-
ify PETA?

Probably not -- these are the Atlas of mice. :-)

In other words: What's "mice?" I've never heard the term used
in machinery moving before (however, mousing hooks is a term
I am familiar with).

A mouse is a little box with a series of rollers which circulate
around it -- sort of an infinite set of short pipe rollers except tha
these rollers are solid, not hollow.

They also have a "tail" (a handle which lets you control the
direction it is pointing), and a turret on the top to allow you to turn
the mouse body while there is weight on the top.

They are referred to in the plural, because you need at least
two to have reasonable balance and control.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

I see, thanks. In the Chicago area we would call them
machinery moving dollies or "roller skates." Different
manufacturers might call them something else, so "mice"
may just be another manufacturer's term.

dennis
in nca

dennis
in nca