Hello, fellow metalworkers!

To prepare Surplus Center's 10-1134 ceiling fan motor for use as a bicycle
generator to power abandoned buildings to 80 watts or so ( a few night lights
and clock radios), I started by drilling six spot welds and removing the
mounting brackets and spot weld kernels.

Then I sent the 17 mm shaft to Jensen and Tracy there turned it to 5/8 inch and
slotted it to fit the cogs he thinned earlier. The eight tooth cogs are 2mm
thick for bicycle chain now, and came with an integral key from Northern
Hydraulic. They are go cart drive pinions.

5/8 key rings serve as spacers and a length of 1/4 rod or a loooong carriage
bolt retains the cog. Internal nylon bushings in the 1/2 inch reamed 12 mm bore
center the 1/4 part.

For my bicycle I used a Bike Nashbar adjustable stem set at + 15 degrees
mounted to the front derailer mounting post, but then your bicycle probably
isn't a Lightning Cycle Dynamics Thunderbolt, their base model. I milled the
as-cast parts of the handlebar clamp to a 120 degree V to capture the motor
with a long hose clamp. This has worked for hundreds of miles.

With the cog in place, I will need to experiment with 20 and 10 degree settings
to get proper chain tension.

I've had it running for a few miles without proper chain tension but you don't
want it falling off in the middle of a ride. You might have to pick up the
pieces and that might make you late for your volunteer job at the library, or
something.

So I need to buy a length of spliceable old style chain. This is rather hard to
find.

Anyway, to make it go, I put the cap in the brown lead as directed for CCW
rotation seen from the shaft end on the left side of the bike, where the tandem
stoker's crank is, and I pole it with 12 VDC for a second or so, then I fire it
up, right? That's all there is to it?

So as long as I pedal I'll have variable speed and frequency AC in range for
powering small devices. Right?

And as long as my load shuts down at 80 VAC it won't depole the rotor as the
genny comes to a stop, right? But an incandescent load would depole the rotor.

I have doubts and want to get this right so I am asking for confirmation.

Surpluscenter.com not responding. Sorry. Nice motor for this app. Can you find
one somwhere with a 5/8 shaft? Surplus Center has corrected the listing to read
17 mm, I believe. Perhaps you will find # 10-1134 when you visit.

http://surpluscenter.com

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...tDisplay?catal
ogId=4006970&storeId=6970&productId=35383&langId=-1&search=138161

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...86&brand=&s k
u=10679&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=


Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )
Student member SAE for one year.
Loves in my life:
Dona, Jeff, Kim, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
So that is who I spend my time with.

Doug Goncz wrote:

So I need to buy a length of spliceable old style chain. This is rather hard to
find.

Chain tension is best supplied by a spring loaded idler. On a bike the
rear deraileur does this.

All modern chains are "spliceable". I just took a like out the other day
'cause it was bent. It took ten minutes. Buy a "chain tool" for $6-10.
It is used to drive the pins in and out of the links of the chain.

You can do it without a chain tool using a punch, but its a real PITA.

-Greg

I find the SRAM chains to be difficult to splice.

From: Greg

All modern chains are "spliceable".

I always have a chain tool.


Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )
Student member SAE for one year.
Loves in my life:
Dona, Jeff, Kim, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
So that is who I spend my time with.
24-35-51 / 34-28-23-19-16-13-11 = 6.57/11

Well, I attempted to pole the rotor, first with 6 V, then 12 V, then 110 VAC
half wave. After 110 VAC half wave poling, the output was a measly 0.4 VAC.

Something's wrong.


Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )
Student member SAE for one year.
Loves in my life:
Dona, Jeff, Kim, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
So that is who I spend my time with.
24-35-51 / 34-28-23-19-16-13-11 = 6.57/11

I don't think that'll work, Doug. It's true that an induction motor
run above synchronous speed can produce rather than consume power, but
it still needs AC excitation. At exactly synchronous speed the motor
would neither consume nor produce power, but it would still draw
excitation current from an AC line. This isn't power because the
voltage and current are in quadrature in that situation. Below synch
speed some component of the current is in phase with the excitation so
it's a motor (load). Above synch speed some component of the current
is out of phase with the excitation voltage so it's a generator
(source).

The options would be to either find a way to magnetize the rotor so it
runs as a synchronous alternator, or devise a way to provide the
motor with AC excitation voltage.

On 27 Jul 2004 01:52:49 GMT, ( Doug Goncz ) wrote:


Anyway, to make it go, I put the cap in the brown lead as directed for CCW
rotation seen from the shaft end on the left side of the bike, where the tandem
stoker's crank is, and I pole it with 12 VDC for a second or so, then I fire it
up, right? That's all there is to it?

So as long as I pedal I'll have variable speed and frequency AC in range for
powering small devices. Right?

In article ,
says...


The options would be to either find a way to magnetize the rotor so it
runs as a synchronous alternator, or devise a way to provide the
motor with AC excitation voltage.


I'd expect a PM brushless motor would work pretty well as a
3 phase generator.

Doug - I think I may have Bodine 3409 stashed here
somewhere that was pulled because it had one bad phase.
You're welcome to it for the cost of shipping if you're
interested in playing with it, and assuming I can locate
it. The voltage constant is 47 volts/1000 RPM, the torque
constant is 57 oz-in/amp. I don't recall if the bad winding
was shorted or open.

Ned Simmons

In

http://www.google.com/search?q=induc...otor+generator

the first hit we read:

http://www.qsl.net/ns8o/Induction_Generator.html

"By adding capacitors in parallel with the motor power leads, and driving it a
little above the nameplate RPM, (1725 RPM ones need to turn at approximately
1875 RPM, and 3450 RPM ones at 3700 RPM) the motor will generate AC voltage! "

Now, my motor already uses a cap with the high resistance coil to produce a
rotating field. Does this mean it's not an induction motor and can't generate?

Or is the combination of cap and coil inductance resonant and I just need to
mount it on the bike, attach the chain and a pace meter, compute the gear ratio
and positive slip speed, then crank at the right pace on the pace meter, _then_
look for output?

I'd been turning the motor by hand...

I have a drill press but it will only go to 550 rpm. I am planning to buy a
slower speed drill press from Harbor Freight, one rated to lower speeds. But
this is part of a thousand dollar repeat of the self-reproducing milling
machine I made, at larger scale.

The college physics lab has a speed calibrated rotator drivable with adjustable
power, not at a given speed, but with that limitation, I believe I can get 225
rpm +- 10% for experiments with positive and negative slip.

I used the rotator and my PM DC motor generator connected to 10 D size NiCd
cells to draw a graph of speed versus power current in and out of the battery
last year. I computed a power/mph slope and did a paper in Mathcad.

From: Ned Simmons

I'd expect a PM brushless motor would work pretty well as a
3 phase generator.

Yes, they do. Sanyo is having development with their 250 W three phase
motor/controller combo. The hub motor is final, but they will not sell it
without the controller which is still in development. So I pester Mr. Nakamura
for a motor without controller and he says he'll "get around to it" meaning no
hub motor yet.

That would really simplify the project.

It's an internally geared three phase brushless, sensorless hub motor ideal for
use as a generator.

Doug - I think I may have Bodine 3409 stashed here
somewhere that was pulled because it had one bad phase.
You're welcome to it for the cost of shipping if you're
interested in playing with it, and assuming I can locate
it. The voltage constant is 47 volts/1000 RPM, the torque
constant is 57 oz-in/amp. I don't recall if the bad winding
was shorted or open.

Sure, Ned, I'm interested. Is this motor still in production or available
surplus? That's crucial.

What's the shaft size, what's the frame, and what's it weigh?

You can email me your payment address and the freight.

Rabbittool.com advertises the Sanyo hub motor but has nothing to sell.


Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )
Student member SAE for one year.
I love: Dona, Jeff, Kim, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
I drive: A double-step Thunderbolt with 657% range.

In article ,
says...


Doug - I think I may have Bodine 3409 stashed here
somewhere that was pulled because it had one bad phase.
You're welcome to it for the cost of shipping if you're
interested in playing with it, and assuming I can locate
it. The voltage constant is 47 volts/1000 RPM, the torque
constant is 57 oz-in/amp. I don't recall if the bad winding
was shorted or open.

Sure, Ned, I'm interested. Is this motor still in production or available
surplus? That's crucial.

What's the shaft size, what's the frame, and what's it weigh?

http://www.bodineonline.com/22b&34b.html


You can email me your payment address and the freight.


I'll look later today and see exactly what's wrong with it.
All I remember is that it was being used as a servo in a
positioning system I built and failed after several months,
but I don't recall the symptoms. I'll let you know.

Ned

Interesting!

I think the generators described on the website work by resonating the
main winding with capacitance. Residual magnetism starts "pumping"
this parallel-resonant circuit to get the excitation current required.
Each revolution gives the resonant circuit another nudge, like
synchronous pushes to a pendulum. Voltage would increase without
limit until something limits it -- probably magnetic saturation in the
iron.

Cool!

A fan motor may not work as well as some other induction motors
because some fan motors sometimes have pretty high resistance. If
it's "impedance protected" so it won't burn out when stalled, it may
not work well as a generator because that winding resistance may
spoil the Q of the resonant circuit. The 10-1134 motor is such a
motor.

It sounds like your motor is a two-phase motor, the second phase being
produced with a capacitor. That's quite common on fans because they
run quietly. It's still an induction motor. I'd suggest that you
ignore the high-resistance winding, just put the cap in parallel with
the main winding.

I'd suspect (and the website confirms) that this setup will not start
generating under load. You must rev it up and get the excitation
established before you connect a load. You may need to experiment
with caps to get the amount of capacitance that resonates with your
motor. . Rev up the motor and vary capacitance while observing output
voltage, going for maximum.

Getting the speed right may be important. You need the speed to stay
fairly constant to stay near resonance. If the motor's nominal speed
is 225 RPM, it's "synchronous" speed will be higher. The difference
between synch speed and run speed is "slip" speed. To generate,
you'll want to run at synch + slip rather than synch - slip.




On 31 Jul 2004 10:30:55 GMT, ( Doug Goncz ) wrote:

In

http://www.google.com/search?q=induc...otor+generator

the first hit we read:

http://www.qsl.net/ns8o/Induction_Generator.html

"By adding capacitors in parallel with the motor power leads, and driving it a
little above the nameplate RPM, (1725 RPM ones need to turn at approximately
1875 RPM, and 3450 RPM ones at 3700 RPM) the motor will generate AC voltage! "

Now, my motor already uses a cap with the high resistance coil to produce a
rotating field. Does this mean it's not an induction motor and can't generate?

Yikes, I haven't seen that website for years.. it's kinda cool that the info
is kept available.
I haven't looked up the motor you're using, but it sounds like it's a
2-phase motor, as Don suggested.
The motors in the article are straight induction motors, and maybe
split-phase motors (although it's a little odd that this wouldn't have been
mentioned), since he stated his generator was a 1 HP pump motor.

All that said, I believe you want to try using a standard induction motor
for your tests of this principle. I'd suggest using an AC powered 1/4" drill
motor to drive your generator, and use a belt & pulleys to increase the
speed for the generator.

WB
...........

" Doug Goncz " wrote in message
...
In

http://www.google.com/search?q=induc...otor+generator

the first hit we read:

http://www.qsl.net/ns8o/Induction_Generator.html

"By adding capacitors in parallel with the motor power leads, and driving
it a
little above the nameplate RPM, (1725 RPM ones need to turn at
approximately
1875 RPM, and 3450 RPM ones at 3700 RPM) the motor will generate AC
voltage! "

Now, my motor already uses a cap with the high resistance coil to produce
a
rotating field. Does this mean it's not an induction motor and can't
generate?

Or is the combination of cap and coil inductance resonant and I just need
to
mount it on the bike, attach the chain and a pace meter, compute the gear
ratio
and positive slip speed, then crank at the right pace on the pace meter,
_then_
look for output?

I'd been turning the motor by hand...

I have a drill press but it will only go to 550 rpm. I am planning to buy
a
slower speed drill press from Harbor Freight, one rated to lower speeds.
But
this is part of a thousand dollar repeat of the self-reproducing milling
machine I made, at larger scale.

The college physics lab has a speed calibrated rotator drivable with
adjustable
power, not at a given speed, but with that limitation, I believe I can get
225
rpm +- 10% for experiments with positive and negative slip.

I used the rotator and my PM DC motor generator connected to 10 D size
NiCd
cells to draw a graph of speed versus power current in and out of the
battery
last year. I computed a power/mph slope and did a paper in Mathcad.

From: Ned Simmons

I'd expect a PM brushless motor would work pretty well as a
3 phase generator.

Yes, they do. Sanyo is having development with their 250 W three phase
motor/controller combo. The hub motor is final, but they will not sell it
without the controller which is still in development. So I pester Mr.
Nakamura
for a motor without controller and he says he'll "get around to it"
meaning no
hub motor yet.

That would really simplify the project.

It's an internally geared three phase brushless, sensorless hub motor
ideal for
use as a generator.

Doug - I think I may have Bodine 3409 stashed here
somewhere that was pulled because it had one bad phase.
You're welcome to it for the cost of shipping if you're
interested in playing with it, and assuming I can locate
it. The voltage constant is 47 volts/1000 RPM, the torque
constant is 57 oz-in/amp. I don't recall if the bad winding
was shorted or open.

Sure, Ned, I'm interested. Is this motor still in production or available
surplus? That's crucial.

What's the shaft size, what's the frame, and what's it weigh?

You can email me your payment address and the freight.

Rabbittool.com advertises the Sanyo hub motor but has nothing to sell.


Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )
Student member SAE for one year.
I love: Dona, Jeff, Kim, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
I drive: A double-step Thunderbolt with 657% range.

Dear Don,

From: Don Foreman

Message-ID:

I think the generators described on the website work by resonating the
main winding with capacitance.

I'd theorized this also.

Residual magnetism starts "pumping"
this parallel-resonant circuit to get the excitation current required.

Yep.

Each revolution gives the resonant circuit another nudge, like
synchronous pushes to a pendulum.

Since there are many poles, each 3600/225 = 1/32 revolution plus or minus
factor of two, that is it's got to be either 1/16 to 1/64 revolution pumps the
circuit.

Voltage would increase without
limit until something limits it -- probably magnetic saturation in the
iron.

I'll bet they have arranged that.

A fan motor may not work as well as some other induction motors
because some fan motors sometimes have pretty high resistance.

Over 100 ohms minor coil, around 35 ohms main coil IIRC. I can have it rewound
with silver magnet wire after I get it online..... The external coil _should_
have lower resistance than the equivalent internal (rotor) coil configuration.

If
it's "impedance protected" so it won't burn out when stalled, it may
not work well as a generator because that winding resistance may
spoil the Q of the resonant circuit.

I will recheck the namepate label, which gives the wiring configuration, for
"impedance protected". The web listing does not say.

The 10-1134 motor is such a
motor.

A fan motor or an impedance protected motor?

It sounds like your motor is a two-phase motor, the second phase being
produced with a capacitor.

Yes.

It's still an induction motor.

Oh, thank God. Buy you a latte someday?

I'd suggest that you
ignore the high-resistance winding, just put the cap in parallel with
the main winding.

Eureka! Of course. Good thing I bought two caps.

I'd suspect (and the website confirms) that this setup will not start
generating under load. You must rev it up and get the excitation
established before you connect a load.

Yes, shutdown under load will depole the rotor. However, my white LED signal
light from Dialight, donated by John Viselli when I provided the serial number
of the green traffic light I purchased on ebay under suspicious conditions,
shuts down at 80 VAC. It goes off line automatically. The perfect match.

You may need to experiment
with caps to get the amount of capacitance that resonates with your
motor. .

Or the driving speed.

Rev up the motor and vary capacitance while observing output
voltage, going for maximum.

Easier to affix the motor to the bicycle and crank at various speeds with known
capacitance. Looks like it's time to buy a cheap LCR meter, or get out the
scope.

Getting the speed right may be important. You need the speed to stay
fairly constant to stay near resonance.

Yes. I can drive the system backwards from the DC motor generator through the
derailer and chain under light loads. The ineria of the wheel will stablize the
speed. Dr. Majewski will provide 0-30 VDC for the DC motor generator.

If the motor's nominal speed
is 225 RPM, it's "synchronous" speed will be higher.

But 3600/16 = 225. So this must be nominal.

The difference
between synch speed and run speed is "slip" speed. To generate,
you'll want to run at synch + slip rather than synch - slip.


Yes, I understand this and will look in my EET 350 text for more.

You've given me enough information to get out of this funk and get on with it.
I'll report soon.

Thanks, Don.


Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )
Student member SAE for one year.
I love: Dona, Jeff, Kim, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
I drive: A double-step Thunderbolt with 657% range.

From: "Wild Bill"

Message-ID:

I believe you want to try using a standard induction motor
for your tests of this principle.

Yes, I do but nothing else will fit up between the cranks!

I'd suggest using an AC powered 1/4" drill
motor to drive your generator, and use a belt & pulleys to increase the
speed for the generator.

Good idea. My usual approach is to put a nut, bolt, and rubber stopper in the
drill / driver, and engage a tubular part driven with the rubber section. I use
this for graining aluminum tubing at 45 degree crosshatch frequently, and they
come out looking nicely finished.


Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )
Student member SAE for one year.
I love: Dona, Jeff, Kim, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
I drive: A double-step Thunderbolt with 657% range.

Dear Group,

I've sent Ned my shipping adress. The Bodine is compatible with my existing
Ametek, but what a wonderful difference in quality!


Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )
Student member SAE for one year.
I love: Dona, Jeff, Kim, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
I drive: A double-step Thunderbolt with 657% range.

On 01 Aug 2004 11:03:32 GMT, ( Doug Goncz ) wrote:



Since there are many poles, each 3600/225 = 1/32 revolution plus or minus
factor of two, that is it's got to be either 1/16 to 1/64 revolution pumps the
circuit.

Voltage would increase without
limit until something limits it -- probably magnetic saturation in the
iron.

I'll bet they have arranged that.

They didn't have to. Equilibrium will be reached when I^R losses
equal energy pumped into the cap each bump, or when the iron starts to
saturate a little.

A fan motor may not work as well as some other induction motors
because some fan motors sometimes have pretty high resistance.

Over 100 ohms minor coil, around 35 ohms main coil IIRC. I can have it rewound
with silver magnet wire after I get it online..... The external coil _should_
have lower resistance than the equivalent internal (rotor) coil configuration.

If
it's "impedance protected" so it won't burn out when stalled, it may
not work well as a generator because that winding resistance may
spoil the Q of the resonant circuit.

I will recheck the namepate label, which gives the wiring configuration, for
"impedance protected". The web listing does not say.

Yes it did! It's impedance protected. Copied from web page:

New G.E. ceiling fan motor. Impedance protected.

The 10-1134 motor is such a
motor.

A fan motor or an impedance protected motor?

Both.


If the motor's nominal speed
is 225 RPM, it's "synchronous" speed will be higher.

But 3600/16 = 225. So this must be nominal.

An induction motor can't run at zero slip speed. Maybe it has 15
pole pairs which would make synch speed 240RPM, or 14 polepairs which
would be 257.15 RPM. I say pole pairs because remember that a "2
pole" induction motor runs at 3450 RPM: 3600 - 150 slip.

Yahoo!

I poled the rotor with 6 VDC at like a tenth amp on the battery charger,
connected the main and then the secondary windings solo across one or two 5/330
run caps, and also both windings in parallel that way, and drove the rotor with
my hand electric drill at various speeds.

Very interesting behavior.

In many cases, there was a certain speed for maximum voltage output, below and
above which (loaded only with DMM voltmeter) there was reduced voltage.

Max voltage reached so far:

5.3 VAC!

Ugh.

Do I need to get out the scope?

I'll count poles soonest.

Fabbed two mount halves today from 1/2 x 3 Aspen glued in four layers under six
fire bricks as clamping to 2 x 3 dressed. Took the 5 1/2 inch hole saw, padded
the work with paper, and sawed down two layers, snapped the waste, then
finished to scrape the paper leaving a fine concave feature.

Set it all up on the self-reproducing HF drill press mill using the 4x6 pattern
of M6x1 holes to take 4 SHCS as stops, and clamped. Nice finish.

A little self-adhesive sandpaper on the motor shell, some epoxy, and some
dowels and screws, and it'll be rock solid. I'm facing the two cut blocks with
maple to distribute the stress and installing T-nuts to take screw from the
stem. I'm reinforcing the epoxy with wood screws from the inside. I'm
reinforcing the solid mounting to the stem with a hose clamp. The hose clamp
was all I had at first and it wasn't solid enough to let me load the chain the
right way.

I set up the LED light today and a 3x3 foot sheet of paper in the kitchen. Drew
out the triangular beam pattern. God, it's gorgeous. I can add a wooden block
to mount the Dialight LED signal light (not a traffic light, it's white and 8
inch diameter) dead level later. Thanks to John Viselli at Dialight for the
donation. This is really high tech. EIGHT WATTS!

Now, how do I get from 5.3 VAC to 110 VAC 60 Hz so I can run the LED signal
light? (This is the whole point....)

Thanks to all. Let's keep at it, this could work.




Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )
Student member SAE for one year.
I love: Dona, Jeff, Kim, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
I drive: A double-step Thunderbolt with 657% range.

From: ( Doug Goncz ) (Me)

http://www.qsl.net/ns8o/Induction_Generator.html

"By adding capacitors in parallel with the motor power leads, and driving it
a
little above the nameplate RPM,

This is what is wrong. The web page recommends 150-200 mfd run caps or back to
back electrolytics. AC power flows through a run cap. AC just flows in and out
of the generator caps. I think using a run cap for the genny is overkill. My
run cap is 5 mfd and it's the size of my fist.

So I think I'll get out the scope, wire up each coil and the combinations in
parallel and series, and hit them with the deflection from the scope, and draw
the circuits up, with each labeled with the resonant frequency. Then (I could
do this with one measurement, but I'm playing) I can calculate the inductance
of the coils, and knowing their resistance, compute the cap size to resonate at
60 Hz.

Sure am glad I still have the scope. If I didn't I'd have to use Daqarta. Of
course, Daqarta gives a more precise frequency, but I don't need 0.001 Hz
resolution for a ten pound AC generator.

My DMM's frequency function may be blown. If so, I'll go with Daqarta and
really learn something.

As a generator, having the coils in parallel produces the lowest source
resistance. So maybe I'll leave the run cap in permanently, and put the other
across the terminals, find one resonance, and adjust.

I don't know but at least it's mounted solidly now. I glued up the blocks,
epoxied them to the motor with six 10-24 x 2 inch screws, square nuts, and an
acrylic washer plate, then drilled the plate and wood for four #8 phillips head
sheet metal screws. I screwed the stem to the block (are my arms ever tired),
then added a hose clamp for reinforcement and set the stem all the way up to
give the minimum lever arm when I hit a pothole.

Solid like a gravestone. I think.. We'll see Saturday or maybe tomorrow.

I worked two hours for free at the library. If you'd care to visit, you'll find
two bookcases in good order. From Win 98 through XHTML to Access and
PowerPoint.


Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )
Student member SAE for one year.
I love: Dona, Jeff, Kim, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
I drive: A double-step Thunderbolt with 657% range.

" Doug Goncz " wrote in message
...

So I think I'll get out the scope, wire up each coil and the combinations in
parallel and series, and hit them with the deflection from the scope, and
draw
the circuits up, with each labeled with the resonant frequency. Then (I could
do this with one measurement, but I'm playing) I can calculate the inductance
of the coils, and knowing their resistance, compute the cap size to resonate
at
60 Hz.

I suspect the capacitor size will be prohibitively large to resonate at 60 Hz.
You might do a quick calculation with some estimated inductor sizes to get an
idea of the order of magnitude....

- Bob Headrick

( Doug Goncz ) wrote in message ...
Yahoo!

I poled the rotor with 6 VDC at like a tenth amp on the battery charger,
connected the main and then the secondary windings solo across one or two 5/330
run caps, and also both windings in parallel that way, and drove the rotor with
my hand electric drill at various speeds.

Very interesting behavior.

In many cases, there was a certain speed for maximum voltage output, below and
above which (loaded only with DMM voltmeter) there was reduced voltage.

Max voltage reached so far:

5.3 VAC!

Ugh.

Do I need to get out the scope?


I would spend a little more time making sure that this motor is
actually suitable for use as an induction generator. Ceiling fan
motors are notoriously inefficient, as a quick www search will reveal.
They have thin wire (high voltage drops) and large gap leakages
compared with motors which do real work. The ceiling fan motor market
is very price sensitive. It sounds like resistance is not an issue
yet, since you are only loading with a DMM. This is essentially no
load.

It is really tempting to use a ceiling fan motor, since they are
cheap, mass-produced, and operate at low RPM's. But it might be wise
to spend more time finding out if you can get decent output from this
thing, under load, so that your fancy mount won't be thrown in the
trash (needless waste of resources and time). Test it under the
designed load!!!!!!!!! Typical fan motors are about 60 watts. Light
bulbs of this size are readily available and occasionally may be
scrounged for free. Try to light one of these bulbs to full
brightness.

Bob's right, it doesn't have to resonate.

I went to bed at 9:30 and got up at midnight. Had a smoke and a cup of coffee
and went over to the shop.

Installed the rotor and pinion, a new chain ring, length of spliced chain, and
ghost cog for tensioning.

Ran the rear wheel off the motor in high gear.

Video and a jpg at:

ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/Bicycle/ACMotorGenerator

Yes, it got warm, yes, it's not an efficient motor, but the load is only 8
watts.

I'll put 150 mfd of run caps across the main coil and see what happens with my
white LED light as load.

You know my dad, Joseph Paul Goncz, was always delighted to receive JPG files.
He took it personally. What fun he had.



Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )
Student member SAE for one year.
I love: Dona, Jeff, Kim, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
I drive: A double-step Thunderbolt with 657% range.

Doug Goncz wrote:

Hello, fellow metalworkers!

To prepare Surplus Center's 10-1134 ceiling fan motor for use as a bicycle
generator to power abandoned buildings to 80 watts or so ( a few night lights
and clock radios), I started by drilling six spot welds and removing the
mounting brackets and spot weld kernels.

Err, why bother?
Okay, I probably know why.

What I would like to point out to you is that some of the aid
agencies/technology aid mobs have web pages on wind generators that can
be built in the boon docks. They might be a lot less work for greater
return.

I haven't experimented with magnets and coils for a really long time, but
I'd considered suggesting earlier that you might want permanent magnets
rotating within a stator and coils.
I wouldn't have a guess what the output would be if you'd take a simple AC
motor's rotor (or make a new one) that is cut to accept some PMs. I think
it'd be something like an alternator with a lot of stator poles.. maybe.
One (probably odd/weird) idea that occurred to me was to reduce the diameter
of the rotor, then machine some pockets into the rotor for the magnets,
epoxy them in place, and slip a brass sleeve over the assembly.

I'm almost curious enough to try it, but there are so many pending projects
already.
I thought I'd mench that there are other small-value AC caps that're a lot
more compact than the aluminum can type.. they're sold at places that sell
replacement parts for ceiling fans.

WB
..................

" Doug Goncz " wrote in message
...
Bob's right, it doesn't have to resonate.

I went to bed at 9:30 and got up at midnight. Had a smoke and a cup of
coffee
and went over to the shop.

Installed the rotor and pinion, a new chain ring, length of spliced chain,
and
ghost cog for tensioning.

Ran the rear wheel off the motor in high gear.

Video and a jpg at:

ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/Bicycle/ACMotorGenerator

Yes, it got warm, yes, it's not an efficient motor, but the load is only 8
watts.

I'll put 150 mfd of run caps across the main coil and see what happens
with my
white LED light as load.

You know my dad, Joseph Paul Goncz, was always delighted to receive JPG
files.
He took it personally. What fun he had.



Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )
Student member SAE for one year.
I love: Dona, Jeff, Kim, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
I drive: A double-step Thunderbolt with 657% range.