A gentleman set me the spindle from his Vernon horizontal mill, as the
arbor was stuck. It had not been removed for some time and nothing he
did would get it out. I started trying to remove the arbor
yesterday..normal stuff, heat, Kroil, etc etc. No go. I made a new
draw bolt less the treads, (his was broken off IN the arbor) and
tried pressing it out with my 6 ton press. Still no go.

I took it down to my buddies machine shop, and we stuck it in the 12
ton press. Still no go, even when beating on the top of the jack to
jar it free.

It took the 50 ton press to break it free, and when it let go, it
shook the entire building. The arbor had a very nice and even coating
of very thin rust on the taper. No pitting and it cleaned up very
nicely with a gray scotchbrite on the lathe.

The B&S tapers are self holding, using friction. And boy howdy..this
one sure was self holding.

I just finished making a new draw bolt for the gentleman, and cleaning
it all up, checking the arbor and spindle between centers for runout,
and cleaning the inside taper with a B&S 9 reamer (damn thats a hard
spindle..never did touch the metal, just cleaned out the rust) Every
thing is nice and straight

Just a heads up...be sure to remove your B&S taper device occasionally
to make sure it doesnt rust in.

Anyone have any suggestions for a proper lube to use on a self holding
taper, to make sure it doesnt rust, but still holds well enough to
use? No keys or pins in the B&S tapers..
Paste wax? ATF?

Gunner


"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object will,
through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to Floyds Knobs,
Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case the object will
tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota).
The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability.
Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones,
of machines disappear much faster than assembled machines."
Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
Anyone have any suggestions for a proper lube to use on a self holding
taper, to make sure it doesnt rust, but still holds well enough to
use? No keys or pins in the B&S tapers..
Paste wax? ATF?

Gunner

Maybe graphite or lithium disolfideSP? ?

Bernd

Gunner
Did your Index 40 have the nut on top of the spindle that would allow the
drawbar to push out the tool holder? Could this Vernon spindle be modified
so that the same idea could be used? I can't believe that this restrained
drawbar idea didn't become a standard throughout the industry. Its so nice
to loosen the draw bar a couple of turns and the tool is pushed out by the
drawbar with no pounding on the drawbar to remove the toolholder.
lg
no neat sig line

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
A gentleman set me the spindle from his Vernon horizontal mill, as the
arbor was stuck. It had not been removed for some time and nothing he
did would get it out. I started trying to remove the arbor
yesterday..normal stuff, heat, Kroil, etc etc. No go. I made a new
draw bolt less the treads, (his was broken off IN the arbor) and
tried pressing it out with my 6 ton press. Still no go.

I took it down to my buddies machine shop, and we stuck it in the 12
ton press. Still no go, even when beating on the top of the jack to
jar it free.

It took the 50 ton press to break it free, and when it let go, it
shook the entire building. The arbor had a very nice and even coating
of very thin rust on the taper. No pitting and it cleaned up very
nicely with a gray scotchbrite on the lathe.

The B&S tapers are self holding, using friction. And boy howdy..this
one sure was self holding.

I just finished making a new draw bolt for the gentleman, and cleaning
it all up, checking the arbor and spindle between centers for runout,
and cleaning the inside taper with a B&S 9 reamer (damn thats a hard
spindle..never did touch the metal, just cleaned out the rust) Every
thing is nice and straight

Just a heads up...be sure to remove your B&S taper device occasionally
to make sure it doesnt rust in.

Anyone have any suggestions for a proper lube to use on a self holding
taper, to make sure it doesnt rust, but still holds well enough to
use? No keys or pins in the B&S tapers..
Paste wax? ATF?

Gunner


"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object
will,
through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to Floyds
Knobs,
Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case the object
will
tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota).
The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability.
Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones,
of machines disappear much faster than assembled machines."
Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking

Gunner wrote in
:

A gentleman set me the spindle from his Vernon horizontal mill, as the
arbor was stuck. It had not been removed for some time and nothing he
did would get it out. I started trying to remove the arbor
yesterday..normal stuff, heat, Kroil, etc etc. No go. I made a new
draw bolt less the treads, (his was broken off IN the arbor) and
tried pressing it out with my 6 ton press. Still no go.

I took it down to my buddies machine shop, and we stuck it in the 12
ton press. Still no go, even when beating on the top of the jack to
jar it free.

It took the 50 ton press to break it free, and when it let go, it
shook the entire building. The arbor had a very nice and even coating
of very thin rust on the taper. No pitting and it cleaned up very
nicely with a gray scotchbrite on the lathe.

The B&S tapers are self holding, using friction. And boy howdy..this
one sure was self holding.

I just finished making a new draw bolt for the gentleman, and cleaning
it all up, checking the arbor and spindle between centers for runout,
and cleaning the inside taper with a B&S 9 reamer (damn thats a hard
spindle..never did touch the metal, just cleaned out the rust) Every
thing is nice and straight

Just a heads up...be sure to remove your B&S taper device occasionally
to make sure it doesnt rust in.

Anyone have any suggestions for a proper lube to use on a self holding
taper, to make sure it doesnt rust, but still holds well enough to
use? No keys or pins in the B&S tapers..
Paste wax? ATF?

Gunner

That reminds me, my buddy has his B&S #9 tool holder and a set of collets
for sale for $250.....

Marty

"larry g" wrote in
:

Gunner
Did your Index 40 have the nut on top of the spindle that would allow
the drawbar to push out the tool holder? Could this Vernon spindle be
modified so that the same idea could be used? I can't believe that
this restrained drawbar idea didn't become a standard throughout the
industry. Its so nice to loosen the draw bar a couple of turns and
the tool is pushed out by the drawbar with no pounding on the drawbar
to remove the toolholder. lg

Funny, you mention that. This 40H has a thread ontop of the spindle, have
no idea why, I can't figure out how it would eject the tool holder.....
Marty

With the top nut installed on the spindle, loosening the drawbar causes
the shoulder on the drawbar to come up hard against the nut which forces
the collet or tool holder to unseat from the spindle. My #645 Index (#9
B&S taper) and my Bridgeport "M" head (#7 B&S taper) are both set up in
a similar fashion.

Rex the Wrench



Marty Escarcega wrote:
"larry g" wrote in
:


Gunner
Did your Index 40 have the nut on top of the spindle that would allow
the drawbar to push out the tool holder? Could this Vernon spindle be
modified so that the same idea could be used? I can't believe that
this restrained drawbar idea didn't become a standard throughout the
industry. Its so nice to loosen the draw bar a couple of turns and
the tool is pushed out by the drawbar with no pounding on the drawbar
to remove the toolholder. lg


Funny, you mention that. This 40H has a thread ontop of the spindle, have
no idea why, I can't figure out how it would eject the tool holder.....
Marty

Rex the Wrench wrote in
:

With the top nut installed on the spindle, loosening the drawbar
causes the shoulder on the drawbar to come up hard against the nut
which forces the collet or tool holder to unseat from the spindle. My
#645 Index (#9 B&S taper) and my Bridgeport "M" head (#7 B&S taper)
are both set up in a similar fashion.

Rex the Wrench

Rex, is the drawbar something more than a common drawbar?
Must be?

Gunner

wrt B&S mill arbor removal

I started trying to remove the arbor
yesterday..normal stuff, heat, Kroil, etc etc. No go. I made a new
draw bolt less the treads, (his was broken off IN the arbor) and
tried pressing it out with my 6 ton press. Still no go.


I have no knowledge. But, the problem with a broken drawbolt is as to what's
pointing out at you when you're trying to get the knockout on it. If it and
the knockout bar's face are not making good contact, but sliding off of each
other then it gets frustrating. A knockout bar as large as possible for the
bore (the more weight the better), perhaps with a concave face, is best.
Have the outer end of the bar threaded with a nut (or shouldered) so you can
slam it with the BFH and not send it through the spindle. Spindle front end
supported (like on an anvil or welding table that has a hole to allow the arbor
to pass through). With a rigid knockout and a righteous hammer smack you have a
possible solution before going the press route. You can tell by the feel and
sound if a hammer blow is just rattling the knockout.
Oil, of course. Heat--the outside of the spindle to make its inside diameter
expand. Then the knockout and hammer.

I don't think rust is the problem. I think it was the event that caused the
drawbar to shear.

Frank Morrison

Gunner wrote:
A gentleman set me the spindle from his Vernon horizontal mill, as the
arbor was stuck. It had not been removed for some time and nothing he
did would get it out. I started trying to remove the arbor
yesterday..normal stuff, heat, Kroil, etc etc. No go. I made a new
draw bolt less the treads, (his was broken off IN the arbor) and
tried pressing it out with my 6 ton press. Still no go.

I took it down to my buddies machine shop, and we stuck it in the 12
ton press. Still no go, even when beating on the top of the jack to
jar it free.

It took the 50 ton press to break it free, and when it let go, it
shook the entire building. The arbor had a very nice and even coating
of very thin rust on the taper. No pitting and it cleaned up very
nicely with a gray scotchbrite on the lathe.

The B&S tapers are self holding, using friction. And boy howdy..this
one sure was self holding.

I just finished making a new draw bolt for the gentleman, and cleaning
it all up, checking the arbor and spindle between centers for runout,
and cleaning the inside taper with a B&S 9 reamer (damn thats a hard
spindle..never did touch the metal, just cleaned out the rust) Every
thing is nice and straight

Just a heads up...be sure to remove your B&S taper device occasionally
to make sure it doesnt rust in.

Anyone have any suggestions for a proper lube to use on a self holding
taper, to make sure it doesnt rust, but still holds well enough to
use? No keys or pins in the B&S tapers..
Paste wax? ATF?

Gunner


"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object will,
through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to Floyds Knobs,
Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case the object will
tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota).
The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability.
Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones,
of machines disappear much faster than assembled machines."
Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking

Just a guess from what I know of oils, but almost anything "ordinary"
should do -- you want the interface to exceed the film strength of the
lubricant to get it to stick, and if that happens you're probably
excluding all the water and other crap that you can.

How many years did it sit? Or did the arbor go into the spindle rusty?

---------------------------------------
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

"Marty Escarcega" wrote in message
...
Rex the Wrench wrote in
:

With the top nut installed on the spindle, loosening the drawbar
causes the shoulder on the drawbar to come up hard against the nut
which forces the collet or tool holder to unseat from the spindle. My
#645 Index (#9 B&S taper) and my Bridgeport "M" head (#7 B&S taper)
are both set up in a similar fashion.

Rex the Wrench

Rex, is the drawbar something more than a common drawbar?
Must be?

The drawbar has a reduced size hex on the top which leaves a shoulder. The
drawbar is 7/16 dia, the shoulder is about 3/4" dia and ~3/8" tall, then it
reduces to about a 1/2" square for the last inch or so. The nut that screws
on the top of the spindle just clears the 3/4 dia then has a 1/2" hole in it
for the hex to pass through. So in operation as you tighten the drawbar the
shoulder snugs up against the spindle and pulls in the collet. When loosing
the drawbar backs out of the spindle till it hits the nut capturing the
shoulder and the collet is forced out. Don't quote me on the dimensions but
there close. I could post pictures if needed.
lg
no neat sig line

The Index #645 drawbar is 1/2" bar stock. The "wrenching" end is milled
to a 3/8" square, below that is a brazed on shoulder of approx. 5/8"
diameter X 5/16" thick. The drawbar drops through the spindle and seats
on a brass thrust bearing then the nut screws onto the end of the
spindle. These are OEM parts that I bought from Wells-Index.
I've made a couple of drawbars, using 1/2" drill rod, since I got the
OEM part...one for an end mill holder that has 3/8" threads in the shank
and another for a set of import collets that seem a bit undersize. The
collets go farther into the spindle taper and the OEM drawbar would
bottom out before tightening.

Rex the Wrench



Marty Escarcega wrote:
Rex the Wrench wrote in
:


With the top nut installed on the spindle, loosening the drawbar
causes the shoulder on the drawbar to come up hard against the nut
which forces the collet or tool holder to unseat from the spindle. My
#645 Index (#9 B&S taper) and my Bridgeport "M" head (#7 B&S taper)
are both set up in a similar fashion.

Rex the Wrench


Rex, is the drawbar something more than a common drawbar?
Must be?

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:36:14 -0800, "larry g"
wrote:

Gunner
Did your Index 40 have the nut on top of the spindle that would allow the
drawbar to push out the tool holder? Could this Vernon spindle be modified
so that the same idea could be used? I can't believe that this restrained
drawbar idea didn't become a standard throughout the industry. Its so nice
to loosen the draw bar a couple of turns and the tool is pushed out by the
drawbar with no pounding on the drawbar to remove the toolholder.
lg
no neat sig line

Yup..it did..but it was missing the draw bolt when I got the mill, so
had to make a new one, and didnt know about the captured drawbolt
until long after the fact.

The Vernon doesnt have that threaded cap on the ass end of the
spindle, so it would be tougher to do it. Im not sure it would hold
the amount of pressure to get that particular arbor out even if it
did. That puppy was Stuck!

FYI..there doesnt appear to be enough meat in the spindle of the
Vernon (and the later Sheldons) to grind it out to R8. Bummer.

The owner sent the spindle with the front bearing still on it, which I
removed for him. The bearing was ingraved 4-04-42. I assume this was
the date of bearing manufacture? A rather nice tapered roller
bearing..New Departure.

Gunner


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
A gentleman set me the spindle from his Vernon horizontal mill, as the
arbor was stuck. It had not been removed for some time and nothing he
did would get it out. I started trying to remove the arbor
yesterday..normal stuff, heat, Kroil, etc etc. No go. I made a new
draw bolt less the treads, (his was broken off IN the arbor) and
tried pressing it out with my 6 ton press. Still no go.

I took it down to my buddies machine shop, and we stuck it in the 12
ton press. Still no go, even when beating on the top of the jack to
jar it free.

It took the 50 ton press to break it free, and when it let go, it
shook the entire building. The arbor had a very nice and even coating
of very thin rust on the taper. No pitting and it cleaned up very
nicely with a gray scotchbrite on the lathe.

The B&S tapers are self holding, using friction. And boy howdy..this
one sure was self holding.

I just finished making a new draw bolt for the gentleman, and cleaning
it all up, checking the arbor and spindle between centers for runout,
and cleaning the inside taper with a B&S 9 reamer (damn thats a hard
spindle..never did touch the metal, just cleaned out the rust) Every
thing is nice and straight

Just a heads up...be sure to remove your B&S taper device occasionally
to make sure it doesnt rust in.

Anyone have any suggestions for a proper lube to use on a self holding
taper, to make sure it doesnt rust, but still holds well enough to
use? No keys or pins in the B&S tapers..
Paste wax? ATF?

Gunner


"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object
will,
through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to Floyds
Knobs,
Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case the object
will
tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota).
The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability.
Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones,
of machines disappear much faster than assembled machines."
Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking


"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object will,
through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to Floyds Knobs,
Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case the object will
tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota).
The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability.
Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones,
of machines disappear much faster than assembled machines."
Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:51:13 -0500, "Gene Kearns"
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:02:30 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

A gentleman set me the spindle from his Vernon horizontal mill, as the
arbor was stuck. It had not been removed for some time and nothing he
did would get it out. I started trying to remove the arbor
yesterday..normal stuff, heat, Kroil, etc etc. No go. I made a new
draw bolt less the treads, (his was broken off IN the arbor) and
tried pressing it out with my 6 ton press. Still no go.

I took it down to my buddies machine shop, and we stuck it in the 12
ton press. Still no go, even when beating on the top of the jack to
jar it free.

It took the 50 ton press to break it free, and when it let go, it
shook the entire building. The arbor had a very nice and even coating
of very thin rust on the taper. No pitting and it cleaned up very
nicely with a gray scotchbrite on the lathe.

The B&S tapers are self holding, using friction. And boy howdy..this
one sure was self holding.

I just finished making a new draw bolt for the gentleman, and cleaning
it all up, checking the arbor and spindle between centers for runout,
and cleaning the inside taper with a B&S 9 reamer (damn thats a hard
spindle..never did touch the metal, just cleaned out the rust) Every
thing is nice and straight

Just a heads up...be sure to remove your B&S taper device occasionally
to make sure it doesnt rust in.

Anyone have any suggestions for a proper lube to use on a self holding
taper, to make sure it doesnt rust, but still holds well enough to
use? No keys or pins in the B&S tapers..
Paste wax? ATF?

Gunner

B&S tapers were a scourge. Stuck when you want them loose, loose when
you want them stuck. No positive drive and they can give a really
crappy surface finish when pocket milling in a horizontal boring mill,
since you are forced to use something like a right hand cut/left hand
spiral to keep the end mill from squirting out of the spindle.

Ditto any other taper without a drawbar.

This does have a drawbar. .560, with a 7/16-14 thread on the end. I
was going to make him a second drawbar with a 3/8-16, but ran out of
time. Im doing this for free..shrug. If he wants a second draw
bar..and doesnt have a lathe, Ill whip one out for him.
He bought this from a second party, who bought it from me..so I felt
it proper to make sure it was taken care of properly.

Gunner

"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object will,
through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to Floyds Knobs,
Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case the object will
tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota).
The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability.
Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones,
of machines disappear much faster than assembled machines."
Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 29 Mar 2004 00:43:19 GMT, (Fdmorrison) wrote:

Gunner

wrt B&S mill arbor removal

I started trying to remove the arbor
yesterday..normal stuff, heat, Kroil, etc etc. No go. I made a new
draw bolt less the treads, (his was broken off IN the arbor) and
tried pressing it out with my 6 ton press. Still no go.


I have no knowledge. But, the problem with a broken drawbolt is as to what's
pointing out at you when you're trying to get the knockout on it. If it and
the knockout bar's face are not making good contact, but sliding off of each
other then it gets frustrating. A knockout bar as large as possible for the
bore (the more weight the better), perhaps with a concave face, is best.
Have the outer end of the bar threaded with a nut (or shouldered) so you can
slam it with the BFH and not send it through the spindle. Spindle front end
supported (like on an anvil or welding table that has a hole to allow the arbor
to pass through). With a rigid knockout and a righteous hammer smack you have a
possible solution before going the press route. You can tell by the feel and
sound if a hammer blow is just rattling the knockout.
Oil, of course. Heat--the outside of the spindle to make its inside diameter
expand. Then the knockout and hammer.

I don't think rust is the problem. I think it was the event that caused the
drawbar to shear.

Frank Morrison

He busted off the drawbar, when thumping on the end of it with a BFH.
Looks to be a crystallization at the point that snapped. Old age and a
million BFH's. The arbor came out brown..and shiney. So it was a
combination of fine rust and old oil that had glued it in. I was the
original owner and Id left the arbor in, and stored it for over a year
wrapped in shrink wrap. Everything else was still nice and oily
(Boshield), but evidently some condensation or similar had gotten in
the taper. It was some hard stuff but came off after a bit of soak in
Kroil then hitting it with a gray scotchbrite while spinning in the
lathe.

Gunner

"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object will,
through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to Floyds Knobs,
Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case the object will
tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota).
The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability.
Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones,
of machines disappear much faster than assembled machines."
Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:56:23 -0800, Tim Wescott
wrote:

Gunner wrote:
A gentleman set me the spindle from his Vernon horizontal mill, as the
arbor was stuck. It had not been removed for some time and nothing he
did would get it out. I started trying to remove the arbor
yesterday..normal stuff, heat, Kroil, etc etc. No go. I made a new
draw bolt less the treads, (his was broken off IN the arbor) and
tried pressing it out with my 6 ton press. Still no go.

I took it down to my buddies machine shop, and we stuck it in the 12
ton press. Still no go, even when beating on the top of the jack to
jar it free.

It took the 50 ton press to break it free, and when it let go, it
shook the entire building. The arbor had a very nice and even coating
of very thin rust on the taper. No pitting and it cleaned up very
nicely with a gray scotchbrite on the lathe.

The B&S tapers are self holding, using friction. And boy howdy..this
one sure was self holding.

I just finished making a new draw bolt for the gentleman, and cleaning
it all up, checking the arbor and spindle between centers for runout,
and cleaning the inside taper with a B&S 9 reamer (damn thats a hard
spindle..never did touch the metal, just cleaned out the rust) Every
thing is nice and straight

Just a heads up...be sure to remove your B&S taper device occasionally
to make sure it doesnt rust in.

Anyone have any suggestions for a proper lube to use on a self holding
taper, to make sure it doesnt rust, but still holds well enough to
use? No keys or pins in the B&S tapers..
Paste wax? ATF?

Gunner


"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object will,
through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to Floyds Knobs,
Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case the object will
tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota).
The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability.
Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones,
of machines disappear much faster than assembled machines."
Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking

Just a guess from what I know of oils, but almost anything "ordinary"
should do -- you want the interface to exceed the film strength of the
lubricant to get it to stick, and if that happens you're probably
excluding all the water and other crap that you can.

How many years did it sit? Or did the arbor go into the spindle rusty?

It sat for about a year..18 months. The arbor was clean when I put it
in. Clean and dry. Which was probably the problem.

Gunner


---------------------------------------
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object will,
through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to Floyds Knobs,
Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case the object will
tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota).
The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability.
Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones,
of machines disappear much faster than assembled machines."
Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking

"larry g" wrote in
:


"Marty Escarcega" wrote in message
...
Rex the Wrench wrote in
:

With the top nut installed on the spindle, loosening the drawbar
causes the shoulder on the drawbar to come up hard against the nut
which forces the collet or tool holder to unseat from the spindle.
My #645 Index (#9 B&S taper) and my Bridgeport "M" head (#7 B&S
taper) are both set up in a similar fashion.

Rex the Wrench

Rex, is the drawbar something more than a common drawbar?
Must be?

The drawbar has a reduced size hex on the top which leaves a shoulder.
The drawbar is 7/16 dia, the shoulder is about 3/4" dia and ~3/8"
tall, then it reduces to about a 1/2" square for the last inch or so.
The nut that screws on the top of the spindle just clears the 3/4 dia
then has a 1/2" hole in it for the hex to pass through. So in
operation as you tighten the drawbar the shoulder snugs up against the
spindle and pulls in the collet. When loosing the drawbar backs out
of the spindle till it hits the nut capturing the shoulder and the
collet is forced out. Don't quote me on the dimensions but there
close. I could post pictures if needed. lg
no neat sig line

A picture to the RCM drop box would be great, thanks Larry....

The B&S tapers are self holding, using friction. And boy howdy..this
one sure was self holding.

Just a heads up...be sure to remove your B&S taper device occasionally
to make sure it doesnt rust in.

Anyone have any suggestions for a proper lube to use on a self holding
taper, to make sure it doesnt rust, but still holds well enough to
use? No keys or pins in the B&S tapers..
Paste wax? ATF?

Gunner


Tapers seem to be more art than science. Talk all you want about taper angles
and static coefficients of friction, they don't always work the way they should
in theory.

I've got a mill with a 40 taper spindle, which of course is a hell of a lot
steeper than the B&S. Taper is smooth with no burrs, arbors and toolholders
are the same. Just about what you'd expect for a system that uses
close-fitting driving dogs so that there is no slipping in the taper.

Clean the taper and the toolholder before inserting. Wipe the toolholder with
a rag with light lube oil - not much. Use for an hour or so. Toolholder
should fall right out on losening the drawbar, right? No way. Never without a
hammer, and it often takes some good hits. Doesn't make sense, but that's what
happens.

Maybe a light coat of Never Seize. Hate going around with silver hands,
though.

John Martin

Gunner wrote:
A gentleman set me the spindle from his Vernon horizontal mill, as the
arbor was stuck. It had not been removed for some time and nothing he
did would get it out. I started trying to remove the arbor
yesterday..normal stuff, heat, Kroil, etc etc. No go. I made a new
draw bolt less the treads, (his was broken off IN the arbor) and
tried pressing it out with my 6 ton press. Still no go.

I took it down to my buddies machine shop, and we stuck it in the 12
ton press. Still no go, even when beating on the top of the jack to
jar it free.

It took the 50 ton press to break it free, and when it let go, it
shook the entire building. The arbor had a very nice and even coating
of very thin rust on the taper. No pitting and it cleaned up very
nicely with a gray scotchbrite on the lathe.

The B&S tapers are self holding, using friction. And boy howdy..this
one sure was self holding.

Yeah, I had the same experience when I got my Bridgeport with the M head
and B&S #7 taper. Same story. I did manage to get the end mill holder
out of the spindle, but it took 2 weeks. Oil did nothing. Bashing the
drawbar did nothing. The end mill holder was wider at the outer end
than the taper, so we had something to grip it by, and the machine was
usable, as long as you could work with a 3/8" end mill. So, I made
a paur of U-shaped collars, one for the spindle nose, one for the
end mill holder, and put in threaded holes for bolts to spread the
collars. My friend and I applied force to those collars until they bent,
no movement! Finally, we applied heat to the spindle (gently) with a
propane torch, cold to the end mill holder with ice, pressure with
the collars, AND severe pounding on the drawbar with a 6 Lb hammer,
all at the same time! It finally released with a pop.

I just finished making a new draw bolt for the gentleman, and cleaning
it all up, checking the arbor and spindle between centers for runout,
and cleaning the inside taper with a B&S 9 reamer (damn thats a hard
spindle..never did touch the metal, just cleaned out the rust) Every
thing is nice and straight

Just a heads up...be sure to remove your B&S taper device occasionally
to make sure it doesnt rust in.

Anyone have any suggestions for a proper lube to use on a self holding
taper, to make sure it doesnt rust, but still holds well enough to
use? No keys or pins in the B&S tapers..
Paste wax? ATF?

Try cleaning them occasionally with LPS #1. It isn't much of a "lube"
which you don't want, especially in an unkeyed taper. But, it keeps
things from rusting very well.

I have my shop in a basement that gets pretty damp in the summer, and after
using LPS #1 fairly liberally for a couple of years, I think the place
has built up a bit of saturation with the stuff, and I don't have much
rust anymore. (You can't smell it, so there isn't much of it around,
but it may hang around in drawers of tools and such.)

Jon

In article , Jon Elson says...

Yeah, I had the same experience when I got my Bridgeport with the M head
and B&S #7 taper. Same story. I did manage to get the end mill holder
out of the spindle, but it took 2 weeks. Oil did nothing. Bashing the
drawbar did nothing. The end mill holder was wider at the outer end
than the taper, so we had something to grip it by, and the machine was
usable, as long as you could work with a 3/8" end mill. So, I made
a paur of U-shaped collars, one for the spindle nose, one for the
end mill holder, and put in threaded holes for bolts to spread the
collars. My friend and I applied force to those collars until they bent,
no movement! Finally, we applied heat to the spindle (gently) with a
propane torch, cold to the end mill holder with ice, pressure with
the collars, AND severe pounding on the drawbar with a 6 Lb hammer,
all at the same time! It finally released with a pop.

Ouch. That's gotta hurt the bearings.

I think if I were in that spot, I'd disassemble the
spindle and machine out the offending part.

Jim

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Gunner wrote:

Anyone have any suggestions for a proper lube to use on a self holding
taper, to make sure it doesnt rust, but still holds well enough to
use?

CRC 3-36. Very light oil but with serious anti-corrosion properties.
Also good for tool wipe-down to prevent rusting. It really does do what
WD-40 _claims_ to do. Did the job for me even when I was living on the
Wet Coast.

Ted

CRC 3-36. Very light oil but with serious anti-corrosion properties.
Also good for tool wipe-down to prevent rusting. It really does do what
WD-40 _claims_ to do. Did the job for me even when I was living on the
Wet Coast.

Ted

Be careful with crc 3-36! I was at work, using the product to clean
a lathe. I cleaned and whiped down the ways with a rag, using the CRC
to remove any dried oil resedue and stains off the ways. After
contact with this product for less than 10 minutes, my vision was
blurred and I was dizzy and naushous. My company had given me some
oxygen and I took a trip to the hospital. Took blood and tests, found
nothing. It went away 4 or 5 hours later. Great product for
instrament oil use. I am just leary of comming close to a can ever
again. --Doozer