Recently the media(Dem) has been soft peddling the most recent of
many car crashes, bizarre episodes and drug rehab excuses of Democrat
Congressman Patrick Kennedy.

Kennedy(Dem)..the decendant of Nazi sympathizer, bootlegger and rum
runner Joe Kennedy(Dem), and nephew of Ted Kennedy(Dem), (anothe long
term drug and booze abuser, who in a drunken state, murdered his
pregnant girl friend Mary Jo Kopeckne), once again endangered the
public at large. Like many members of his extended family(Dem), he
has the DWK/FWK gene (Driving/flying while Kennedy), and as a public
safety measure, should be immediately taken to a place of execution
and put to death.

The execution should be witnessed by the Washington Post's Peter
Whoriskey(Dem), the entire reporting staff of the South Florida
Sun-Sentinel(Dem) , MSNBC(Dem), and Flordia state prosecutors
Martz(Dem) and Krischer(Dem) and NC District Attorney Mike
Nifong(Dem).

Please..remember its for the children. This public menace will kill
children if allowed to rampage. This Taliban wannabe needs to be
executed now.


Gunner



"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

Gunner wrote in
:

OT bull**** not marked OT

--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

Slow day Gunner? LOL

Perhaps we should start with Rush first? And boardcast it on his radio
show for the ratings?

And for what it is worth, in my opinion any drug addict (Republican or
Democrat) should be removed from any position of responsibility until
verification exists that they can be trusted.

That includes our alcoholic President (gotta watch those killer snack
foods) and his VP who can't shoot straight when he and the gun are both
loaded.

TMT

"Anthony" wrote in message
...
Gunner wrote in
:

OT bull**** not marked OT


Forwarded copy to Dept of Homeland Security.

--

SVL

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
Recently the media(Dem) has been soft peddling the most recent of
many car crashes, bizarre episodes and drug rehab excuses of Democrat
Congressman Patrick Kennedy.

And this differs from your coke-snorting, alcoholic, DWI busted president?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Execute them all,
regardless of party affiliation.

Anthony wrote:

Gunner wrote in
:

OT bull**** not marked OT

Yeah, Gunner,

Cross-post like you're supposed to!! LOL

Anthony wrote:
Gunner wrote in
:

OT bull**** not marked OT

Given the danger to survival that the dope fiend Kennedy poses, along
with the twisted metal of the wreckages caused by various Kennedy
driving/flying under the influence, it seems to be on topic. :-)

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
[snip]
This public menace will kill
children if allowed to rampage. This Taliban wannabe needs to be
executed now.

Hyperbole aside, anyone who drives impaired is a public menace, and deserves
a little trip through the legal system to make that perfectly clear. Power
and privilege seems to have had their usual effect, though. I might get a
ride from the cops in similar circumstances, but I doubt it would be to my
home.

Jeff

On Sat, 6 May 2006 14:26:38 -0700, "John Kunkel"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
Recently the media(Dem) has been soft peddling the most recent of
many car crashes, bizarre episodes and drug rehab excuses of Democrat
Congressman Patrick Kennedy.

And this differs from your coke-snorting, alcoholic, DWI busted president?

Do you have proof of his current addiction? Or anything other than a
DWI? Please provide it.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Execute them all,
regardless of party affiliation.

At least your are one of the semi-honest ones. Ill be waiting for your
citations to the above request.

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

On Sat, 6 May 2006 17:14:26 -0500, "Jeff McCann"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
[snip]
This public menace will kill
children if allowed to rampage. This Taliban wannabe needs to be
executed now.

Hyperbole aside, anyone who drives impaired is a public menace, and deserves
a little trip through the legal system to make that perfectly clear. Power
and privilege seems to have had their usual effect, though. I might get a
ride from the cops in similar circumstances, but I doubt it would be to my
home.

Jeff

Patrick Kennedy should be immediately transported to the place of
execution and after a short drumhead trial, executed. His goods to be
forfeit, his house(s) razed and the earth salted, and his family
members sold into bondage.

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

On Sat, 06 May 2006 15:00:42 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:

Anthony wrote:
Gunner wrote in
:

OT bull**** not marked OT

Given the danger to survival that the dope fiend Kennedy poses, along
with the twisted metal of the wreckages caused by various Kennedy
driving/flying under the influence, it seems to be on topic. :-)

"Bush pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor DUI charge, paid a $150 fine, ..."

PLUS "The White House disclosed information in documents Thursday showing that
President Bush had been arrested once for a college prank and was cited for two
automobile accidents and two speeding tickets .."

"In 1968, former president George Bush pins bars on son George W. Bush, who
was allowed to enter the National Guard despite several traffic violations."

"The accidents and tickets were disclosed for the first time in response to
questions about a portion of Bush's military record that had been blacked out
..."

[
The traffic violations are significant in the context of Bush's military career.
At the time Bush enlisted in the Texas National Guard, the Air Force typically
would have had to issue a waiver for an applicant who had multiple arrests or
driving violations.

An officer who served at the same time as the president, former Texas Air
National Guard pilot Dean Roome, was required by the Air Force to get a waiver
for a $25 speeding ticket when he enlisted in the Air National Guard in 1967.
]

"... Guard officials in Texas had been concerned about embarrassing
information in Bush's military records ..."

"There is evidence that Bush has more to hide involving his Texas driving
record. Soon after he became governor, he had a new driver's license issued with
the unusual ID number of "000000005", an action that destroyed the records of
his previous license."

AFAIK They don't even let him drive ....

"Before 1968, Bush was arrested for theft and vandalism .."
"Bush was arrested for cocaine in 1972."

Are there any of his kids or Jeb Bush's that have not been arrested?
--
Cliff

On Sat, 06 May 2006 22:25:22 GMT, Gunner wrote:

On Sat, 6 May 2006 17:14:26 -0500, "Jeff McCann"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
[snip]
This public menace will kill
children if allowed to rampage. This Taliban wannabe needs to be
executed now.

Hyperbole aside, anyone who drives impaired is a public menace, and deserves
a little trip through the legal system to make that perfectly clear. Power
and privilege seems to have had their usual effect, though. I might get a
ride from the cops in similar circumstances, but I doubt it would be to my
home.

Jeff

Patrick Kennedy should be immediately transported to the place of
execution and after a short drumhead trial, executed. His goods to be
forfeit, his house(s) razed and the earth salted, and his family
members sold into bondage.

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

Cliff wrote:
On Sat, 06 May 2006 15:00:42 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:


Anthony wrote:

Gunner wrote in
:

OT bull**** not marked OT

Given the danger to survival that the dope fiend Kennedy poses, along
with the twisted metal of the wreckages caused by various Kennedy
driving/flying under the influence, it seems to be on topic. :-)


"Bush pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor DUI charge, paid a $150 fine, ..."

Snip barely relevant gibber

Next time Bush does it while in office, you have my permission to
impeach him.

Now, about Kennedy, who IS in office and does often drive drunk (and
then lie his ass off about it...)_

On Sat, 06 May 2006 16:12:31 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:

Now, about Kennedy, who IS in office and does often drive drunk (and
then lie his ass off about it...)_

Let's see your foorp ...

BTW, Found those"WMDs" yet?
--
Cliff

"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...
Cliff wrote:
On Sat, 06 May 2006 15:00:42 -0700, Stuart Grey

wrote:


Anthony wrote:

Gunner wrote in
m:

OT bull**** not marked OT

Given the danger to survival that the dope fiend Kennedy poses, along
with the twisted metal of the wreckages caused by various Kennedy
driving/flying under the influence, it seems to be on topic. :-)


"Bush pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor DUI charge, paid a $150 fine,
..."

Snip barely relevant gibber

Next time Bush does it while in office, you have my permission to impeach
him.

Now, about Kennedy, who IS in office and does often drive drunk (and then
lie his ass off about it...)_


Yeah, but you have to admit that it was pretty slick that as messed up as he
was he still remembered to invoke a law prohibiting members of Congress from
being detained by police if they are on their way to a vote. And then to
cover that up by saying he was "disoriented" by the meds.

What the hell is it with our political system that keeps all the decent,
honest people from wanting to participate?

Steve.

SteveF wrote:
"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...

Cliff wrote:

On Sat, 06 May 2006 15:00:42 -0700, Stuart Grey

wrote:



Anthony wrote:


Gunner wrote in
om:

OT bull**** not marked OT

Given the danger to survival that the dope fiend Kennedy poses, along
with the twisted metal of the wreckages caused by various Kennedy
driving/flying under the influence, it seems to be on topic. :-)


"Bush pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor DUI charge, paid a $150 fine,
..."

Snip barely relevant gibber

Next time Bush does it while in office, you have my permission to impeach
him.

Now, about Kennedy, who IS in office and does often drive drunk (and then
lie his ass off about it...)_



Yeah, but you have to admit that it was pretty slick that as messed up as he
was he still remembered to invoke a law prohibiting members of Congress from
being detained by police if they are on their way to a vote.

Kennedy LIED to the officers that he was on his way to a vote. That's
filing a false police report. There was no vote.


And then to
cover that up by saying he was "disoriented" by the meds.

Yes, after he went into great detail about the incident, he declared
that he didn't remember a thing, a bald face lie.

What the hell is it with our political system that keeps all the decent,
honest people from wanting to participate?

Decent, honest people don't get donations and don't get backing from the
people who bribed them. An honest man cannot get elected, and no one
would vote for him.

sittingduck wrote:
Anthony wrote:


OT bull**** not marked OT



wow, they say nothing about the ongoing saga of criminal republicans, but the
instant they find something on a democrat they scream for a rope....
Does anyone think Gunner isn't brain-damaged?

I doubt Gunner is serious, but rather, was doing satire that highlighted
that Limbaugh and Kennedy both get special treatment.

Kennedy, a Democrat, gets to skip the incriminating breathlizer test,
and everyone ignores his lie about having to get to a House vote.

Limbaugh, a Republican, gets persecuted for a crime that is seldom
prosecuted, and has his civil rights to privacy violated.

By the liberals standard calls for prison time for Limbaugh, if they are
not two faced lying hypocrits with a double standard; they would want to
hang Kennedy. Limbaugh didn't drive drunk, repeatedly.

In article .com,
Too_Many_Tools says...

Perhaps we should start with Rush first?

Yeah, that's what I thought at first, the poor fella
had a case of Ru****is. LOL.

Unfortunately the execution schedule is a bit clogged
up, before we do that guy in we have to deal with:

Karl Rove

Dick Cheney

Porter Goss

Tom Delay

Bob Ney

Duke Cunningham

Dennis Hastert

I heard yesterday that poor 'ol Tom Delay has
just spent his entire re-election budget. On
lawyers. Now ain't that a cryin shame.

I for one am amazed the watergate hotel is yet
again at the center of the corruption universe.

Isn't it darned interesting that the lady they
fired from the CIA worked in their IG office,
performing audits of all things. I wonder if
she came across the hooker bill. I wonder if
Jeff Gannon's name was on it.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Sat, 06 May 2006 16:53:40 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:

SteveF wrote:
"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...

Cliff wrote:

On Sat, 06 May 2006 15:00:42 -0700, Stuart Grey

wrote:



Anthony wrote:


Gunner wrote in
news:eeup5297bskqtt41gj7drjii55hpbhr4k1@4ax. com:

OT bull**** not marked OT

Given the danger to survival that the dope fiend Kennedy poses, along
with the twisted metal of the wreckages caused by various Kennedy
driving/flying under the influence, it seems to be on topic. :-)


"Bush pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor DUI charge, paid a $150 fine,
..."

Snip barely relevant gibber

Next time Bush does it while in office, you have my permission to impeach
him.

Now, about Kennedy, who IS in office and does often drive drunk (and then
lie his ass off about it...)_



Yeah, but you have to admit that it was pretty slick that as messed up as he
was he still remembered to invoke a law prohibiting members of Congress from
being detained by police if they are on their way to a vote.

Kennedy LIED to the officers that he was on his way to a vote. That's
filing a false police report. There was no vote.


And then to
cover that up by saying he was "disoriented" by the meds.

Yes, after he went into great detail about the incident, he declared
that he didn't remember a thing, a bald face lie.

What the hell is it with our political system that keeps all the decent,
honest people from wanting to participate?

Decent, honest people don't get donations and don't get backing from the
people who bribed them. An honest man cannot get elected, and no one
would vote for him.

And when bribed..honest politicians stay bribed. Dems even **** over
those who bribe em.

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

On Sat, 06 May 2006 17:29:33 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:

sittingduck wrote:
Anthony wrote:


OT bull**** not marked OT



wow, they say nothing about the ongoing saga of criminal republicans, but the
instant they find something on a democrat they scream for a rope....
Does anyone think Gunner isn't brain-damaged?

I doubt Gunner is serious, but rather, was doing satire that highlighted
that Limbaugh and Kennedy both get special treatment.

Kennedy, a Democrat, gets to skip the incriminating breathlizer test,
and everyone ignores his lie about having to get to a House vote.

Limbaugh, a Republican, gets persecuted for a crime that is seldom
prosecuted, and has his civil rights to privacy violated.

By the liberals standard calls for prison time for Limbaugh, if they are
not two faced lying hypocrits with a double standard; they would want to
hang Kennedy. Limbaugh didn't drive drunk, repeatedly.


Big big gold star.

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

On Sat, 06 May 2006 17:29:33 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:

sittingduck wrote:
Anthony wrote:


OT bull**** not marked OT



wow, they say nothing about the ongoing saga of criminal republicans, but the
instant they find something on a democrat they scream for a rope....
Does anyone think Gunner isn't brain-damaged?

I doubt Gunner is serious, but rather, was doing satire that highlighted
that Limbaugh and Kennedy both get special treatment.

What special treatment did Limbaugh get? Other than THE TREATMENT.?

Kennedy, a Democrat, gets to skip the incriminating breathlizer test,
and everyone ignores his lie about having to get to a House vote.

Limbaugh, a Republican, gets persecuted for a crime that is seldom
prosecuted, and has his civil rights to privacy violated.

By the liberals standard calls for prison time for Limbaugh, if they are
not two faced lying hypocrits with a double standard; they would want to
hang Kennedy. Limbaugh didn't drive drunk, repeatedly.


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On 6 May 2006 18:51:13 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article .com,
Too_Many_Tools says...

Perhaps we should start with Rush first?

Yeah, that's what I thought at first, the poor fella
had a case of Ru****is. LOL.

Unfortunately the execution schedule is a bit clogged
up, before we do that guy in we have to deal with:

Karl Rove

Dick Cheney

Porter Goss

Tom Delay

Bob Ney

Duke Cunningham

Dennis Hastert

I heard yesterday that poor 'ol Tom Delay has
just spent his entire re-election budget. On
lawyers. Now ain't that a cryin shame.

I for one am amazed the watergate hotel is yet
again at the center of the corruption universe.

Isn't it darned interesting that the lady they
fired from the CIA worked in their IG office,
performing audits of all things. I wonder if
she came across the hooker bill. I wonder if
Jeff Gannon's name was on it.

Jim

Odd..I dont recall any of those being drug addicts. Got cites?

Now do you REALLY want me to trot out the Dems who will get the ax?
Starting with the corrupt ******* on the Ethics committee who got
demoted by the Dems when they found he had his hand in the kitty?

Really want me to go there? Id be happy to hold it over your head.

Btw.,.did you see the news about Clintons collusion with Ken Lay and
Enron?

Laugh laugh laugh

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

Gunner wrote:
Recently the media(Dem) has been soft peddling the most recent of
many car crashes, bizarre episodes and drug rehab excuses of Democrat
Congressman Patrick Kennedy.

Kennedy(Dem)..the decendant of Nazi sympathizer, bootlegger and rum
runner Joe Kennedy(Dem), and nephew of Ted Kennedy(Dem





The founder of the Kennedy dynasty was a Nazi sympathizer.

The founder of the Bush dynasty was also a Nazi sympathizer.


Interesting stuff.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

On 7 May 2006 02:29:25 -0700, "kurgan" wrote:


Gunner wrote:
Recently the media(Dem) has been soft peddling the most recent of
many car crashes, bizarre episodes and drug rehab excuses of Democrat
Congressman Patrick Kennedy.

Kennedy(Dem)..the decendant of Nazi sympathizer, bootlegger and rum
runner Joe Kennedy(Dem), and nephew of Ted Kennedy(Dem





The founder of the Kennedy dynasty was a Nazi sympathizer.

The founder of the Bush dynasty was also a Nazi sympathizer.


Actually..no, Bush wasnt. He worked for a company that had business
with German companies. But so did IBM, Ford, Studebaker, Shell Oil,
and many thousands of other companies.

Now about ol Joe.....

Interesting stuff.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Too bad you are wrong. Interesting....

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

On Sat, 06 May 2006 19:57:37 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Recently the media(Dem) has been soft peddling the most recent of
many car crashes, bizarre episodes and drug rehab excuses of Democrat
Congressman Patrick Kennedy.

Kennedy(Dem)..the decendant of Nazi sympathizer, bootlegger and rum
runner Joe Kennedy(Dem), and nephew of Ted Kennedy(Dem), (anothe long
term drug and booze abuser, who in a drunken state, murdered his
pregnant girl friend Mary Jo Kopeckne), once again endangered the
public at large. Like many members of his extended family(Dem), he
has the DWK/FWK gene (Driving/flying while Kennedy),

Still laughing my ass off over this one....

Gunner wrote:


The founder of the Kennedy dynasty was a Nazi sympathizer.

The founder of the Bush dynasty was also a Nazi sympathizer.


Actually..no, Bush wasnt. He worked for a company that had business
with German companies. But so did IBM, Ford, Studebaker, Shell Oil,
and many thousands of other companies.




Incorrect. His situation was unusual. The company he worked for was a
covert holding company for Fritz Thyssen and Bush wasn't just an
employee, he was a director.


Here is a good synopsis of the situation:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...312540,00.html

The debate over Prescott Bush's behaviour has been bubbling under the
surface for some time. There has been a steady internet chatter about
the "Bush/Nazi" connection, much of it inaccurate and unfair. But the
new documents, many of which were only declassified last year, show
that even after America had entered the war and when there was already
significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked
for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German
businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power. It has also been
suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to
establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty.

Remarkably, little of Bush's dealings with Germany has received public
scrutiny, partly because of the secret status of the documentation
involving him. But now the multibillion dollar legal action for damages
by two Holocaust survivors against the Bush family, and the imminent
publication of three books on the subject are threatening to make
Prescott Bush's business history an uncomfortable issue for his
grandson, George W, as he seeks re-election.

While there is no suggestion that Prescott Bush was sympathetic to the
Nazi cause, the documents reveal that the firm he worked for, Brown
Brothers Harriman (BBH), acted as a US base for the German
industrialist, Fritz Thyssen, who helped finance Hitler in the 1930s
before falling out with him at the end of the decade. The Guardian has
seen evidence that shows Bush was the director of the New York-based
Union Banking Corporation (UBC) that represented Thyssen's US interests
and he continued to work for the bank after America entered the war.

Tantalising


Bush was also on the board of at least one of the companies that formed
part of a multinational network of front companies to allow Thyssen to
move assets around the world.

Thyssen owned the largest steel and coal company in Germany and grew
rich from Hitler's efforts to re-arm between the two world wars. One of
the pillars in Thyssen's international corporate web, UBC, worked
exclusively for, and was owned by, a Thyssen-controlled bank in the
Netherlands. More tantalising are Bush's links to the Consolidated
Silesian Steel Company (CSSC), based in mineral rich Silesia on the
German-Polish border. During the war, the company made use of Nazi
slave labour from the concentration camps, including Auschwitz. The
ownership of CSSC changed hands several times in the 1930s, but
documents from the US National Archive declassified last year link Bush
to CSSC, although it is not clear if he and UBC were still involved in
the company when Thyssen's American assets were seized in 1942.

Three sets of archives spell out Prescott Bush's involvement. All three
are readily available, thanks to the efficient US archive system and a
helpful and dedicated staff at both the Library of Congress in
Washington and the National Archives at the University of Maryland.

The first set of files, the Harriman papers in the Library of Congress,
show that Prescott Bush was a director and shareholder of a number of
companies involved with Thyssen.

The second set of papers, which are in the National Archives, are
contained in vesting order number 248 which records the seizure of the
company assets. What these files show is that on October 20 1942 the
alien property custodian seized the assets of the UBC, of which
Prescott Bush was a director. Having gone through the books of the
bank, further seizures were made against two affiliates, the
Holland-American Trading Corporation and the Seamless Steel Equipment
Corporation. By November, the Silesian-American Company, another of
Prescott Bush's ventures, had also been seized.

The third set of documents, also at the National Archives, are
contained in the files on IG Farben, who was prosecuted for war crimes.


A report issued by the Office of Alien Property Custodian in 1942
stated of the companies that "since 1939, these (steel and mining)
properties have been in possession of and have been operated by the
German government and have undoubtedly been of considerable assistance
to that country's war effort".

Prescott Bush, a 6ft 4in charmer with a rich singing voice, was the
founder of the Bush political dynasty and was once considered a
potential presidential candidate himself. Like his son, George, and
grandson, George W, he went to Yale where he was, again like his
descendants, a member of the secretive and influential Skull and Bones
student society. He was an artillery captain in the first world war and
married Dorothy Walker, the daughter of George Herbert Walker, in 1921.


In 1924, his father-in-law, a well-known St Louis investment banker,
helped set him up in business in New York with Averill Harriman, the
wealthy son of railroad magnate E H Harriman in New York, who had gone
into banking.

One of the first jobs Walker gave Bush was to manage UBC. Bush was a
founding member of the bank and the incorporation documents, which list
him as one of seven directors, show he owned one share in UBC worth
$125.

The bank was set up by Harriman and Bush's father-in-law to provide a
US bank for the Thyssens, Germany's most powerful industrial family.

August Thyssen, the founder of the dynasty had been a major contributor
to Germany's first world war effort and in the 1920s, he and his sons
Fritz and Heinrich established a network of overseas banks and
companies so their assets and money could be whisked offshore if
threatened again.

By the time Fritz Thyssen inherited the business empire in 1926,
Germany's economic recovery was faltering. After hearing Adolf Hitler
speak, Thyssen became mesmerised by the young firebrand. He joined the
Nazi party in December 1931 and admits backing Hitler in his
autobiography, I Paid Hitler, when the National Socialists were still a
radical fringe party. He stepped in several times to bail out the
struggling party: in 1928 Thyssen had bought the Barlow Palace on
Briennerstrasse, in Munich, which Hitler converted into the Brown
House, the headquarters of the Nazi party. The money came from another
Thyssen overseas institution, the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvarrt in
Rotterdam.

By the late 1930s, Brown Brothers Harriman, which claimed to be the
world's largest private investment bank, and UBC had bought and shipped
millions of dollars of gold, fuel, steel, coal and US treasury bonds to
Germany, both feeding and financing Hitler's build-up to war.

Between 1931 and 1933 UBC bought more than $8m worth of gold, of which
$3m was shipped abroad. According to documents seen by the Guardian,
after UBC was set up it transferred $2m to BBH accounts and between
1924 and 1940 the assets of UBC hovered around $3m, dropping to $1m
only on a few occasions.

In 1941, Thyssen fled Germany after falling out with Hitler but he was
captured in France and detained for the remainder of the war.

There was nothing illegal in doing business with the Thyssens
throughout the 1930s and many of America's best-known business names
invested heavily in the German economic recovery. However, everything
changed after Germany invaded Poland in 1939. Even then it could be
argued that BBH was within its rights continuing business relations
with the Thyssens until the end of 1941 as the US was still technically
neutral until the attack on Pearl Harbor. The trouble started on July
30 1942 when the New York Herald-Tribune ran an article entitled
"Hitler's Angel Has $3m in US Bank". UBC's huge gold purchases had
raised suspicions that the bank was in fact a "secret nest egg" hidden
in New York for Thyssen and other Nazi bigwigs. The Alien Property
Commission (APC) launched an investigation.

There is no dispute over the fact that the US government seized a
string of assets controlled by BBH - including UBC and SAC - in the
autumn of 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy act. What is in dispute
is if Harriman, Walker and Bush did more than own these companies on
paper.

Erwin May, a treasury attache and officer for the department of
investigation in the APC, was assigned to look into UBC's business. The
first fact to emerge was that Roland Harriman, Prescott Bush and the
other directors didn't actually own their shares in UBC but merely held
them on behalf of Bank voor Handel. Strangely, no one seemed to know
who owned the Rotterdam-based bank, including UBC's president.

May wrote in his report of August 16 1941: "Union Banking Corporation,
incorporated August 4 1924, is wholly owned by the Bank voor Handel en
Scheepvaart N.V of Rotterdam, the Netherlands. My investigation has
produced no evidence as to the ownership of the Dutch bank. Mr Cornelis
[sic] Lievense, president of UBC, claims no knowledge as to the
ownership of the Bank voor Handel but believes it possible that Baron
Heinrich Thyssen, brother of Fritz Thyssen, may own a substantial
interest."

May cleared the bank of holding a golden nest egg for the Nazi leaders
but went on to describe a network of companies spreading out from UBC
across Europe, America and Canada, and how money from voor Handel
travelled to these companies through UBC.

By September May had traced the origins of the non-American board
members and found that Dutchman HJ Kouwenhoven - who met with Harriman
in 1924 to set up UBC - had several other jobs: in addition to being
the managing director of voor Handel he was also the director of the
August Thyssen bank in Berlin and a director of Fritz Thyssen's Union
Steel Works, the holding company that controlled Thyssen's steel and
coal mine empire in Germany.

Within a few weeks, Homer Jones, the chief of the APC investigation and
research division sent a memo to the executive committee of APC
recommending the US government vest UBC and its assets. Jones named the
directors of the bank in the memo, including Prescott Bush's name, and
wrote: "Said stock is held by the above named individuals, however,
solely as nominees for the Bank voor Handel, Rotterdam, Holland, which
is owned by one or more of the Thyssen family, nationals of Germany and
Hungary. The 4,000 shares hereinbefore set out are therefore
beneficially owned and help for the interests of enemy nationals, and
are vestible by the APC," according to the memo from the National
Archives seen by the Guardian.

Red-handed


Jones recommended that the assets be liquidated for the benefit of the
government, but instead UBC was maintained intact and eventually
returned to the American shareholders after the war. Some claim that
Bush sold his share in UBC after the war for $1.5m - a huge amount of
money at the time - but there is no documentary evidence to support
this claim. No further action was ever taken nor was the investigation
continued, despite the fact UBC was caught red-handed operating a
American shell company for the Thyssen family eight months after
America had entered the war and that this was the bank that had partly
financed Hitler's rise to power.

The most tantalising part of the story remains shrouded in mystery: the
connection, if any, between Prescott Bush, Thyssen, Consolidated
Silesian Steel Company (CSSC) and Auschwitz.

Thyssen's partner in United Steel Works, which had coal mines and steel
plants across the region, was Friedrich Flick, another steel magnate
who also owned part of IG Farben, the powerful German chemical company.


Flick's plants in Poland made heavy use of slave labour from the
concentration camps in Poland. According to a New York Times article
published in March 18 1934 Flick owned two-thirds of CSSC while
"American interests" held the rest.

The US National Archive documents show that BBH's involvement with CSSC
was more than simply holding the shares in the mid-1930s. Bush's friend
and fellow "bonesman" Knight Woolley, another partner at BBH, wrote to
Averill Harriman in January 1933 warning of problems with CSSC after
the Poles started their drive to nationalise the plant. "The
Consolidated Silesian Steel Company situation has become increasingly
complicated, and I have accordingly brought in Sullivan and Cromwell,
in order to be sure that our interests are protected," wrote Knight.
"After studying the situation Foster Dulles is insisting that their man
in Berlin get into the picture and obtain the information which the
directors here should have. You will recall that Foster is a director
and he is particularly anxious to be certain that there is no liability
attaching to the American directors."

But the ownership of the CSSC between 1939 when the Germans invaded
Poland and 1942 when the US government vested UBC and SAC is not clear.


"SAC held coal mines and definitely owned CSSC between 1934 and 1935,
but when SAC was vested there was no trace of CSSC. All concrete
evidence of its ownership disappears after 1935 and there are only a
few traces in 1938 and 1939," says Eva Schweitzer, the journalist and
author whose book, America and the Holocaust, is published next month.

Silesia was quickly made part of the German Reich after the invasion,
but while Polish factories were seized by the Nazis, those belonging to
the still neutral Americans (and some other nationals) were treated
more carefully as Hitler was still hoping to persuade the US to at
least sit out the war as a neutral country. Schweitzer says American
interests were dealt with on a case-by-case basis. The Nazis bought
some out, but not others.

The two Holocaust survivors suing the US government and the Bush family
for a total of $40bn in compensation claim both materially benefited
from Auschwitz slave labour during the second world war.

Kurt Julius Goldstein, 87, and Peter Gingold, 85, began a class action
in America in 2001, but the case was thrown out by Judge Rosemary
Collier on the grounds that the government cannot be held liable under
the principle of "state sovereignty".

Jan Lissmann, one of the lawyers for the survivors, said: "President
Bush withdrew President Bill Clinton's signature from the treaty [that
founded the court] not only to protect Americans, but also to protect
himself and his family."

Lissmann argues that genocide-related cases are covered by
international law, which does hold governments accountable for their
actions. He claims the ruling was invalid as no hearing took place.

In their claims, Mr Goldstein and Mr Gingold, honorary chairman of the
League of Anti-fascists, suggest the Americans were aware of what was
happening at Auschwitz and should have bombed the camp.

The lawyers also filed a motion in The Hague asking for an opinion on
whether state sovereignty is a valid reason for refusing to hear their
case. A ruling is expected within a month.

The petition to The Hague states: "From April 1944 on, the American Air
Force could have destroyed the camp with air raids, as well as the
railway bridges and railway lines from Hungary to Auschwitz. The murder
of about 400,000 Hungarian Holocaust victims could have been
prevented."

The case is built around a January 22 1944 executive order signed by
President Franklin Roosevelt calling on the government to take all
measures to rescue the European Jews. The lawyers claim the order was
ignored because of pressure brought by a group of big American
companies, including BBH, where Prescott Bush was a director.

Lissmann said: "If we have a positive ruling from the court it will
cause [president] Bush huge problems and make him personally liable to
pay compensation."

The US government and the Bush family deny all the claims against them.


In addition to Eva Schweitzer's book, two other books are about to be
published that raise the subject of Prescott Bush's business history.
The author of the second book, to be published next year, John Loftus,
is a former US attorney who prosecuted Nazi war criminals in the 70s.
Now living in St Petersburg, Florida and earning his living as a
security commentator for Fox News and ABC radio, Loftus is working on a
novel which uses some of the material he has uncovered on Bush. Loftus
stressed that what Prescott Bush was involved in was just what many
other American and British businessmen were doing at the time.

"You can't blame Bush for what his grandfather did any more than you
can blame Jack Kennedy for what his father did - bought Nazi stocks -
but what is important is the cover-up, how it could have gone on so
successfully for half a century, and does that have implications for us
today?" he said.

"This was the mechanism by which Hitler was funded to come to power,
this was the mechanism by which the Third Reich's defence industry was
re-armed, this was the mechanism by which Nazi profits were repatriated
back to the American owners, this was the mechanism by which
investigations into the financial laundering of the Third Reich were
blunted," said Loftus, who is vice-chairman of the Holocaust Museum in
St Petersburg.

"The Union Banking Corporation was a holding company for the Nazis, for
Fritz Thyssen," said Loftus. "At various times, the Bush family has
tried to spin it, saying they were owned by a Dutch bank and it wasn't
until the Nazis took over Holland that they realised that now the Nazis
controlled the apparent company and that is why the Bush supporters
claim when the war was over they got their money back. Both the
American treasury investigations and the intelligence investigations in
Europe completely bely that, it's absolute horse****. They always knew
who the ultimate beneficiaries were."

"There is no one left alive who could be prosecuted but they did get
away with it," said Loftus. "As a former federal prosecutor, I would
make a case for Prescott Bush, his father-in-law (George Walker) and
Averill Harriman [to be prosecuted] for giving aid and comfort to the
enemy. They remained on the boards of these companies knowing that they
were of financial benefit to the nation of Germany."

Loftus said Prescott Bush must have been aware of what was happening in
Germany at the time. "My take on him was that he was a not terribly
successful in-law who did what Herbert Walker told him to. Walker and
Harriman were the two evil geniuses, they didn't care about the Nazis
any more than they cared about their investments with the Bolsheviks."

What is also at issue is how much money Bush made from his involvement.
His supporters suggest that he had one token share. Loftus disputes
this, citing sources in "the banking and intelligence communities" and
suggesting that the Bush family, through George Herbert Walker and
Prescott, got $1.5m out of the involvement. There is, however, no paper
trail to this sum.

The third person going into print on the subject is John Buchanan, 54,
a Miami-based magazine journalist who started examining the files while
working on a screenplay. Last year, Buchanan published his findings in
the venerable but small-circulation New Hampshire Gazette under the
headline "Documents in National Archives Prove George Bush's
Grandfather Traded With the Nazis - Even After Pearl Harbor". He
expands on this in his book to be published next month - Fixing
America: Breaking the Stranglehold of Corporate Rule, Big Media and the
Religious Right.

In the article, Buchanan, who has worked mainly in the trade and music
press with a spell as a muckraking reporter in Miami, claimed that "the
essential facts have appeared on the internet and in relatively obscure
books but were dismissed by the media and Bush family as undocumented
diatribes".

Buchanan suffers from hypermania, a form of manic depression, and when
he found himself rebuffed in his initial efforts to interest the media,
he responded with a series of threats against the journalists and media
outlets that had spurned him. The threats, contained in e-mails,
suggested that he would expose the journalists as "traitors to the
truth".

Unsurprisingly, he soon had difficulty getting his calls returned. Most
seriously, he faced aggravated stalking charges in Miami, in connection
with a man with whom he had fallen out over the best way to publicise
his findings. The charges were dropped last month.

Biography


Buchanan said he regretted his behaviour had damaged his credibility
but his main aim was to secure publicity for the story. Both Loftus and
Schweitzer say Buchanan has come up with previously undisclosed
documentation.

The Bush family have largely responded with no comment to any reference
to Prescott Bush. Brown Brothers Harriman also declined to comment.

The Bush family recently approved a flattering biography of Prescott
Bush entitled Duty, Honour, Country by Mickey Herskowitz. The
publishers, Rutledge Hill Press, promised the book would "deal honestly
with Prescott Bush's alleged business relationships with Nazi
industrialists and other accusations".

In fact, the allegations are dealt with in less than two pages. The
book refers to the Herald-Tribune story by saying that "a person of
less established ethics would have panicked ... Bush and his partners
at Brown Brothers Harriman informed the government regulators that the
account, opened in the late 1930s, was 'an unpaid courtesy for a
client' ... Prescott Bush acted quickly and openly on behalf of the
firm, served well by a reputation that had never been compromised. He
made available all records and all documents. Viewed six decades later
in the era of serial corporate scandals and shattered careers, he
received what can be viewed as the ultimate clean bill."

The Prescott Bush story has been condemned by both conservatives and
some liberals as having nothing to do with the current president. It
has also been suggested that Prescott Bush had little to do with
Averill Harriman and that the two men opposed each other politically.

However, documents from the Harriman papers include a flattering
wartime profile of Harriman in the New York Journal American and next
to it in the files is a letter to the financial editor of that paper
from Prescott Bush congratulating the paper for running the profile. He
added that Harriman's "performance and his whole attitude has been a
source of inspiration and pride to his partners and his friends".

The Anti-Defamation League in the US is supportive of Prescott Bush and
the Bush family. In a statement last year they said that "rumours about
the alleged Nazi 'ties' of the late Prescott Bush ... have circulated
widely through the internet in recent years. These charges are
untenable and politically motivated ... Prescott Bush was neither a
Nazi nor a Nazi sympathiser."

However, one of the country's oldest Jewish publications, the Jewish
Advocate, has aired the controversy in detail.

More than 60 years after Prescott Bush came briefly under scrutiny at
the time of a faraway war, his grandson is facing a different kind of
scrutiny but one underpinned by the same perception that, for some
people, war can be a profitable business.

On 7 May 2006 07:53:09 -0700, "kurgan" wrote:

In fact, the allegations are dealt with in less than two pages. The
book refers to the Herald-Tribune story by saying that "a person of
less established ethics would have panicked ... Bush and his partners
at Brown Brothers Harriman informed the government regulators that the
account, opened in the late 1930s, was 'an unpaid courtesy for a
client' ... Prescott Bush acted quickly and openly on behalf of the
firm, served well by a reputation that had never been compromised. He
made available all records and all documents. Viewed six decades later
in the era of serial corporate scandals and shattered careers, he
received what can be viewed as the ultimate clean bill."

The Prescott Bush story has been condemned by both conservatives and
some liberals as having nothing to do with the current president. It
has also been suggested that Prescott Bush had little to do with
Averill Harriman and that the two men opposed each other politically.

However, documents from the Harriman papers include a flattering
wartime profile of Harriman in the New York Journal American and next
to it in the files is a letter to the financial editor of that paper
from Prescott Bush congratulating the paper for running the profile. He
added that Harriman's "performance and his whole attitude has been a
source of inspiration and pride to his partners and his friends".

The Anti-Defamation League in the US is supportive of Prescott Bush and
the Bush family. In a statement last year they said that "rumours about
the alleged Nazi 'ties' of the late Prescott Bush ... have circulated
widely through the internet in recent years. These charges are
untenable and politically motivated ... Prescott Bush was neither a
Nazi nor a Nazi sympathiser."


When the ADL gives you a clean bill of health..its pretty solid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Thyssen

"In 1930 Thyssen, together with other industrialists, bought the
"Braunes Haus" in Munich and financed its remodelation to be NSDAP
headquarter. They also started a campaign to encourage other
industrialists to work with the NSDAP. In 1930, first May, he
officially becomes a member of the NSDAP.

He was also an ideological supporter, since he backed repression
against trade unions and left-wing parties. However, he was in strong
disagreement with the religious persecutions of Jews. One of his
strongest motivation to join the NSDAP was likely his dislike for the
Treaty of Versailles.

Following the Kristallnacht, Thyssen resigned from all his political
offices and fled to Switzerland and then to France. Hitler confiscated
all his property and demanded his capture. The Vichy government of
occupied France promptly obeyed and Thyssen was sent to the
concentration camp Sachsenhausen."
"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

On Sun, 07 May 2006 08:27:02 -0400, LiRM wrote:

On Sat, 06 May 2006 19:57:37 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Recently the media(Dem) has been soft peddling the most recent of
many car crashes, bizarre episodes and drug rehab excuses of Democrat
Congressman Patrick Kennedy.

Kennedy(Dem)..the decendant of Nazi sympathizer, bootlegger and rum
runner Joe Kennedy(Dem), and nephew of Ted Kennedy(Dem), (anothe long
term drug and booze abuser, who in a drunken state, murdered his
pregnant girl friend Mary Jo Kopeckne), once again endangered the
public at large. Like many members of his extended family(Dem), he
has the DWK/FWK gene (Driving/flying while Kennedy),

Still laughing my ass off over this one....

g

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

sittingduck wrote:
Stuart Grey wrote:


I doubt Gunner is serious, but rather, was doing satire that highlighted
that Limbaugh and Kennedy both get special treatment.

Kennedy, a Democrat, gets to skip the incriminating breathlizer test,
and everyone ignores his lie about having to get to a House vote.

Limbaugh, a Republican, gets persecuted for a crime that is seldom
prosecuted, and has his civil rights to privacy violated.

By the liberals standard calls for prison time for Limbaugh, if they are
not two faced lying hypocrits with a double standard; they would want to
hang Kennedy. Limbaugh didn't drive drunk, repeatedly.



He

He who? The subject was Gunner. Are you talking about Limbaugh?

has perpetuated lies and ignorance that has led to the retardation of the
nation.

I doubt that he had diddle to do with your lack of being informed, or
your constant unsported spew.

The Gunners of the world are perfect examples. They don't even know that they
have been ****ed, and keep on cheering for and siding with, the enemy.

Do you know what projection means?

On 7 May 2006 07:53:09 -0700, "kurgan" wrote:


Gunner wrote:


The founder of the Kennedy dynasty was a Nazi sympathizer.

The founder of the Bush dynasty was also a Nazi sympathizer.


Actually..no, Bush wasnt. He worked for a company that had business
with German companies. But so did IBM, Ford, Studebaker, Shell Oil,
and many thousands of other companies.




Incorrect. His situation was unusual. The company he worked for was a
covert holding company for Fritz Thyssen and Bush wasn't just an
employee, he was a director.

Thyssen was indeed ONE of his clients.

Yep..he was employed by Harriman. That means he worked for the
firm..correct? He was a stockholder as well. As I recall..his salary
was $1 a year, or that was the value of his stock..I mix them up.
UBC was your typical megabusiness, with interlocking boards of other
companies, not just Thyssens and UBC.

Its akin to European Royalty..everyone in the biz is related to one
another in some fashion or another, no matter the country.


Here is a good synopsis of the situation:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...312540,00.html

The debate over Prescott Bush's behaviour has been bubbling under the
surface for some time. There has been a steady internet chatter about
the "Bush/Nazi" connection, much of it inaccurate and unfair. But the
new documents, many of which were only declassified last year, show
that even after America had entered the war and when there was already
significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked
for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German
businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power. It has also been
suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to
establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty.

Remarkably, little of Bush's dealings with Germany has received public
scrutiny, partly because of the secret status of the documentation
involving him. But now the multibillion dollar legal action for damages
by two Holocaust survivors against the Bush family, and the imminent
publication of three books on the subject are threatening to make
Prescott Bush's business history an uncomfortable issue for his
grandson, George W, as he seeks re-election.

While there is no suggestion that Prescott Bush was sympathetic to the
Nazi cause, the documents reveal that the firm he worked for, Brown
Brothers Harriman (BBH), acted as a US base for the German
industrialist, Fritz Thyssen, who helped finance Hitler in the 1930s
before falling out with him at the end of the decade. The Guardian has
seen evidence that shows Bush was the director of the New York-based
Union Banking Corporation (UBC) that represented Thyssen's US interests
and he continued to work for the bank after America entered the war.

Tantalising


Bush was also on the board of at least one of the companies that formed
part of a multinational network of front companies to allow Thyssen to
move assets around the world.

Thyssen owned the largest steel and coal company in Germany and grew
rich from Hitler's efforts to re-arm between the two world wars. One of
the pillars in Thyssen's international corporate web, UBC, worked
exclusively for, and was owned by, a Thyssen-controlled bank in the
Netherlands. More tantalising are Bush's links to the Consolidated
Silesian Steel Company (CSSC), based in mineral rich Silesia on the
German-Polish border. During the war, the company made use of Nazi
slave labour from the concentration camps, including Auschwitz. The
ownership of CSSC changed hands several times in the 1930s, but
documents from the US National Archive declassified last year link Bush
to CSSC, although it is not clear if he and UBC were still involved in
the company when Thyssen's American assets were seized in 1942.

Three sets of archives spell out Prescott Bush's involvement. All three
are readily available, thanks to the efficient US archive system and a
helpful and dedicated staff at both the Library of Congress in
Washington and the National Archives at the University of Maryland.

The first set of files, the Harriman papers in the Library of Congress,
show that Prescott Bush was a director and shareholder of a number of
companies involved with Thyssen.

The second set of papers, which are in the National Archives, are
contained in vesting order number 248 which records the seizure of the
company assets. What these files show is that on October 20 1942 the
alien property custodian seized the assets of the UBC, of which
Prescott Bush was a director. Having gone through the books of the
bank, further seizures were made against two affiliates, the
Holland-American Trading Corporation and the Seamless Steel Equipment
Corporation. By November, the Silesian-American Company, another of
Prescott Bush's ventures, had also been seized.

The third set of documents, also at the National Archives, are
contained in the files on IG Farben, who was prosecuted for war crimes.


A report issued by the Office of Alien Property Custodian in 1942
stated of the companies that "since 1939, these (steel and mining)
properties have been in possession of and have been operated by the
German government and have undoubtedly been of considerable assistance
to that country's war effort".

Prescott Bush, a 6ft 4in charmer with a rich singing voice, was the
founder of the Bush political dynasty and was once considered a
potential presidential candidate himself. Like his son, George, and
grandson, George W, he went to Yale where he was, again like his
descendants, a member of the secretive and influential Skull and Bones
student society. He was an artillery captain in the first world war and
married Dorothy Walker, the daughter of George Herbert Walker, in 1921.


In 1924, his father-in-law, a well-known St Louis investment banker,
helped set him up in business in New York with Averill Harriman, the
wealthy son of railroad magnate E H Harriman in New York, who had gone
into banking.

One of the first jobs Walker gave Bush was to manage UBC. Bush was a
founding member of the bank and the incorporation documents, which list
him as one of seven directors, show he owned one share in UBC worth
$125.

The bank was set up by Harriman and Bush's father-in-law to provide a
US bank for the Thyssens, Germany's most powerful industrial family.

August Thyssen, the founder of the dynasty had been a major contributor
to Germany's first world war effort and in the 1920s, he and his sons
Fritz and Heinrich established a network of overseas banks and
companies so their assets and money could be whisked offshore if
threatened again.

By the time Fritz Thyssen inherited the business empire in 1926,
Germany's economic recovery was faltering. After hearing Adolf Hitler
speak, Thyssen became mesmerised by the young firebrand. He joined the
Nazi party in December 1931 and admits backing Hitler in his
autobiography, I Paid Hitler, when the National Socialists were still a
radical fringe party. He stepped in several times to bail out the
struggling party: in 1928 Thyssen had bought the Barlow Palace on
Briennerstrasse, in Munich, which Hitler converted into the Brown
House, the headquarters of the Nazi party. The money came from another
Thyssen overseas institution, the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvarrt in
Rotterdam.

By the late 1930s, Brown Brothers Harriman, which claimed to be the
world's largest private investment bank, and UBC had bought and shipped
millions of dollars of gold, fuel, steel, coal and US treasury bonds to
Germany, both feeding and financing Hitler's build-up to war.

Between 1931 and 1933 UBC bought more than $8m worth of gold, of which
$3m was shipped abroad. According to documents seen by the Guardian,
after UBC was set up it transferred $2m to BBH accounts and between
1924 and 1940 the assets of UBC hovered around $3m, dropping to $1m
only on a few occasions.

In 1941, Thyssen fled Germany after falling out with Hitler but he was
captured in France and detained for the remainder of the war.

There was nothing illegal in doing business with the Thyssens
throughout the 1930s and many of America's best-known business names
invested heavily in the German economic recovery. However, everything
changed after Germany invaded Poland in 1939. Even then it could be
argued that BBH was within its rights continuing business relations
with the Thyssens until the end of 1941 as the US was still technically
neutral until the attack on Pearl Harbor. The trouble started on July
30 1942 when the New York Herald-Tribune ran an article entitled
"Hitler's Angel Has $3m in US Bank". UBC's huge gold purchases had
raised suspicions that the bank was in fact a "secret nest egg" hidden
in New York for Thyssen and other Nazi bigwigs. The Alien Property
Commission (APC) launched an investigation.

There is no dispute over the fact that the US government seized a
string of assets controlled by BBH - including UBC and SAC - in the
autumn of 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy act. What is in dispute
is if Harriman, Walker and Bush did more than own these companies on
paper.

Erwin May, a treasury attache and officer for the department of
investigation in the APC, was assigned to look into UBC's business. The
first fact to emerge was that Roland Harriman, Prescott Bush and the
other directors didn't actually own their shares in UBC but merely held
them on behalf of Bank voor Handel. Strangely, no one seemed to know
who owned the Rotterdam-based bank, including UBC's president.

May wrote in his report of August 16 1941: "Union Banking Corporation,
incorporated August 4 1924, is wholly owned by the Bank voor Handel en
Scheepvaart N.V of Rotterdam, the Netherlands. My investigation has
produced no evidence as to the ownership of the Dutch bank. Mr Cornelis
[sic] Lievense, president of UBC, claims no knowledge as to the
ownership of the Bank voor Handel but believes it possible that Baron
Heinrich Thyssen, brother of Fritz Thyssen, may own a substantial
interest."

May cleared the bank of holding a golden nest egg for the Nazi leaders
but went on to describe a network of companies spreading out from UBC
across Europe, America and Canada, and how money from voor Handel
travelled to these companies through UBC.

By September May had traced the origins of the non-American board
members and found that Dutchman HJ Kouwenhoven - who met with Harriman
in 1924 to set up UBC - had several other jobs: in addition to being
the managing director of voor Handel he was also the director of the
August Thyssen bank in Berlin and a director of Fritz Thyssen's Union
Steel Works, the holding company that controlled Thyssen's steel and
coal mine empire in Germany.

Within a few weeks, Homer Jones, the chief of the APC investigation and
research division sent a memo to the executive committee of APC
recommending the US government vest UBC and its assets. Jones named the
directors of the bank in the memo, including Prescott Bush's name, and
wrote: "Said stock is held by the above named individuals, however,
solely as nominees for the Bank voor Handel, Rotterdam, Holland, which
is owned by one or more of the Thyssen family, nationals of Germany and
Hungary. The 4,000 shares hereinbefore set out are therefore
beneficially owned and help for the interests of enemy nationals, and
are vestible by the APC," according to the memo from the National
Archives seen by the Guardian.

Red-handed


Jones recommended that the assets be liquidated for the benefit of the
government, but instead UBC was maintained intact and eventually
returned to the American shareholders after the war. Some claim that
Bush sold his share in UBC after the war for $1.5m - a huge amount of
money at the time - but there is no documentary evidence to support
this claim. No further action was ever taken nor was the investigation
continued, despite the fact UBC was caught red-handed operating a
American shell company for the Thyssen family eight months after
America had entered the war and that this was the bank that had partly
financed Hitler's rise to power.

The most tantalising part of the story remains shrouded in mystery: the
connection, if any, between Prescott Bush, Thyssen, Consolidated
Silesian Steel Company (CSSC) and Auschwitz.

Thyssen's partner in United Steel Works, which had coal mines and steel
plants across the region, was Friedrich Flick, another steel magnate
who also owned part of IG Farben, the powerful German chemical company.


Flick's plants in Poland made heavy use of slave labour from the
concentration camps in Poland. According to a New York Times article
published in March 18 1934 Flick owned two-thirds of CSSC while
"American interests" held the rest.

The US National Archive documents show that BBH's involvement with CSSC
was more than simply holding the shares in the mid-1930s. Bush's friend
and fellow "bonesman" Knight Woolley, another partner at BBH, wrote to
Averill Harriman in January 1933 warning of problems with CSSC after
the Poles started their drive to nationalise the plant. "The
Consolidated Silesian Steel Company situation has become increasingly
complicated, and I have accordingly brought in Sullivan and Cromwell,
in order to be sure that our interests are protected," wrote Knight.
"After studying the situation Foster Dulles is insisting that their man
in Berlin get into the picture and obtain the information which the
directors here should have. You will recall that Foster is a director
and he is particularly anxious to be certain that there is no liability
attaching to the American directors."

But the ownership of the CSSC between 1939 when the Germans invaded
Poland and 1942 when the US government vested UBC and SAC is not clear.


"SAC held coal mines and definitely owned CSSC between 1934 and 1935,
but when SAC was vested there was no trace of CSSC. All concrete
evidence of its ownership disappears after 1935 and there are only a
few traces in 1938 and 1939," says Eva Schweitzer, the journalist and
author whose book, America and the Holocaust, is published next month.

Silesia was quickly made part of the German Reich after the invasion,
but while Polish factories were seized by the Nazis, those belonging to
the still neutral Americans (and some other nationals) were treated
more carefully as Hitler was still hoping to persuade the US to at
least sit out the war as a neutral country. Schweitzer says American
interests were dealt with on a case-by-case basis. The Nazis bought
some out, but not others.

The two Holocaust survivors suing the US government and the Bush family
for a total of $40bn in compensation claim both materially benefited
from Auschwitz slave labour during the second world war.

Kurt Julius Goldstein, 87, and Peter Gingold, 85, began a class action
in America in 2001, but the case was thrown out by Judge Rosemary
Collier on the grounds that the government cannot be held liable under
the principle of "state sovereignty".

Jan Lissmann, one of the lawyers for the survivors, said: "President
Bush withdrew President Bill Clinton's signature from the treaty [that
founded the court] not only to protect Americans, but also to protect
himself and his family."

Lissmann argues that genocide-related cases are covered by
international law, which does hold governments accountable for their
actions. He claims the ruling was invalid as no hearing took place.

In their claims, Mr Goldstein and Mr Gingold, honorary chairman of the
League of Anti-fascists, suggest the Americans were aware of what was
happening at Auschwitz and should have bombed the camp.

The lawyers also filed a motion in The Hague asking for an opinion on
whether state sovereignty is a valid reason for refusing to hear their
case. A ruling is expected within a month.

The petition to The Hague states: "From April 1944 on, the American Air
Force could have destroyed the camp with air raids, as well as the
railway bridges and railway lines from Hungary to Auschwitz. The murder
of about 400,000 Hungarian Holocaust victims could have been
prevented."

The case is built around a January 22 1944 executive order signed by
President Franklin Roosevelt calling on the government to take all
measures to rescue the European Jews. The lawyers claim the order was
ignored because of pressure brought by a group of big American
companies, including BBH, where Prescott Bush was a director.

Lissmann said: "If we have a positive ruling from the court it will
cause [president] Bush huge problems and make him personally liable to
pay compensation."

The US government and the Bush family deny all the claims against them.


In addition to Eva Schweitzer's book, two other books are about to be
published that raise the subject of Prescott Bush's business history.
The author of the second book, to be published next year, John Loftus,
is a former US attorney who prosecuted Nazi war criminals in the 70s.
Now living in St Petersburg, Florida and earning his living as a
security commentator for Fox News and ABC radio, Loftus is working on a
novel which uses some of the material he has uncovered on Bush. Loftus
stressed that what Prescott Bush was involved in was just what many
other American and British businessmen were doing at the time.

"You can't blame Bush for what his grandfather did any more than you
can blame Jack Kennedy for what his father did - bought Nazi stocks -
but what is important is the cover-up, how it could have gone on so
successfully for half a century, and does that have implications for us
today?" he said.

"This was the mechanism by which Hitler was funded to come to power,
this was the mechanism by which the Third Reich's defence industry was
re-armed, this was the mechanism by which Nazi profits were repatriated
back to the American owners, this was the mechanism by which
investigations into the financial laundering of the Third Reich were
blunted," said Loftus, who is vice-chairman of the Holocaust Museum in
St Petersburg.

"The Union Banking Corporation was a holding company for the Nazis, for
Fritz Thyssen," said Loftus. "At various times, the Bush family has
tried to spin it, saying they were owned by a Dutch bank and it wasn't
until the Nazis took over Holland that they realised that now the Nazis
controlled the apparent company and that is why the Bush supporters
claim when the war was over they got their money back. Both the
American treasury investigations and the intelligence investigations in
Europe completely bely that, it's absolute horse****. They always knew
who the ultimate beneficiaries were."

"There is no one left alive who could be prosecuted but they did get
away with it," said Loftus. "As a former federal prosecutor, I would
make a case for Prescott Bush, his father-in-law (George Walker) and
Averill Harriman [to be prosecuted] for giving aid and comfort to the
enemy. They remained on the boards of these companies knowing that they
were of financial benefit to the nation of Germany."

Loftus said Prescott Bush must have been aware of what was happening in
Germany at the time. "My take on him was that he was a not terribly
successful in-law who did what Herbert Walker told him to. Walker and
Harriman were the two evil geniuses, they didn't care about the Nazis
any more than they cared about their investments with the Bolsheviks."

What is also at issue is how much money Bush made from his involvement.
His supporters suggest that he had one token share. Loftus disputes
this, citing sources in "the banking and intelligence communities" and
suggesting that the Bush family, through George Herbert Walker and
Prescott, got $1.5m out of the involvement. There is, however, no paper
trail to this sum.

The third person going into print on the subject is John Buchanan, 54,
a Miami-based magazine journalist who started examining the files while
working on a screenplay. Last year, Buchanan published his findings in
the venerable but small-circulation New Hampshire Gazette under the
headline "Documents in National Archives Prove George Bush's
Grandfather Traded With the Nazis - Even After Pearl Harbor". He
expands on this in his book to be published next month - Fixing
America: Breaking the Stranglehold of Corporate Rule, Big Media and the
Religious Right.

In the article, Buchanan, who has worked mainly in the trade and music
press with a spell as a muckraking reporter in Miami, claimed that "the
essential facts have appeared on the internet and in relatively obscure
books but were dismissed by the media and Bush family as undocumented
diatribes".

Buchanan suffers from hypermania, a form of manic depression, and when
he found himself rebuffed in his initial efforts to interest the media,
he responded with a series of threats against the journalists and media
outlets that had spurned him. The threats, contained in e-mails,
suggested that he would expose the journalists as "traitors to the
truth".

Unsurprisingly, he soon had difficulty getting his calls returned. Most
seriously, he faced aggravated stalking charges in Miami, in connection
with a man with whom he had fallen out over the best way to publicise
his findings. The charges were dropped last month.

Biography


Buchanan said he regretted his behaviour had damaged his credibility
but his main aim was to secure publicity for the story. Both Loftus and
Schweitzer say Buchanan has come up with previously undisclosed
documentation.

The Bush family have largely responded with no comment to any reference
to Prescott Bush. Brown Brothers Harriman also declined to comment.

The Bush family recently approved a flattering biography of Prescott
Bush entitled Duty, Honour, Country by Mickey Herskowitz. The
publishers, Rutledge Hill Press, promised the book would "deal honestly
with Prescott Bush's alleged business relationships with Nazi
industrialists and other accusations".

In fact, the allegations are dealt with in less than two pages. The
book refers to the Herald-Tribune story by saying that "a person of
less established ethics would have panicked ... Bush and his partners
at Brown Brothers Harriman informed the government regulators that the
account, opened in the late 1930s, was 'an unpaid courtesy for a
client' ... Prescott Bush acted quickly and openly on behalf of the
firm, served well by a reputation that had never been compromised. He
made available all records and all documents. Viewed six decades later
in the era of serial corporate scandals and shattered careers, he
received what can be viewed as the ultimate clean bill."

The Prescott Bush story has been condemned by both conservatives and
some liberals as having nothing to do with the current president. It
has also been suggested that Prescott Bush had little to do with
Averill Harriman and that the two men opposed each other politically.

However, documents from the Harriman papers include a flattering
wartime profile of Harriman in the New York Journal American and next
to it in the files is a letter to the financial editor of that paper
from Prescott Bush congratulating the paper for running the profile. He
added that Harriman's "performance and his whole attitude has been a
source of inspiration and pride to his partners and his friends".

The Anti-Defamation League in the US is supportive of Prescott Bush and
the Bush family. In a statement last year they said that "rumours about
the alleged Nazi 'ties' of the late Prescott Bush ... have circulated
widely through the internet in recent years. These charges are
untenable and politically motivated ... Prescott Bush was neither a
Nazi nor a Nazi sympathiser."

However, one of the country's oldest Jewish publications, the Jewish
Advocate, has aired the controversy in detail.

More than 60 years after Prescott Bush came briefly under scrutiny at
the time of a faraway war, his grandson is facing a different kind of
scrutiny but one underpinned by the same perception that, for some
people, war can be a profitable business.

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 May 2006 16:53:40 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:

SteveF wrote:
"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...

Cliff wrote:

On Sat, 06 May 2006 15:00:42 -0700, Stuart Grey

wrote:



Anthony wrote:


Gunner wrote in
news:eeup5297bskqtt41gj7drjii55hpbhr4k1@4ax. com:

OT bull**** not marked OT

Given the danger to survival that the dope fiend Kennedy poses, along
with the twisted metal of the wreckages caused by various Kennedy
driving/flying under the influence, it seems to be on topic. :-)


"Bush pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor DUI charge, paid a $150
fine,
..."

Snip barely relevant gibber

Next time Bush does it while in office, you have my permission to
impeach
him.

Now, about Kennedy, who IS in office and does often drive drunk (and
then
lie his ass off about it...)_



Yeah, but you have to admit that it was pretty slick that as messed up
as he
was he still remembered to invoke a law prohibiting members of Congress
from
being detained by police if they are on their way to a vote.

Kennedy LIED to the officers that he was on his way to a vote. That's
filing a false police report. There was no vote.


And then to
cover that up by saying he was "disoriented" by the meds.

Yes, after he went into great detail about the incident, he declared
that he didn't remember a thing, a bald face lie.

What the hell is it with our political system that keeps all the
decent,
honest people from wanting to participate?

Decent, honest people don't get donations and don't get backing from the
people who bribed them. An honest man cannot get elected, and no one
would vote for him.

And when bribed..honest politicians stay bribed. Dems even **** over
those who bribe em.

Gunner

Not like those republican politicians who never fail to do what they are
paid to do by those who bribe them.

Hawke

"sittingduck" wrote in message
ynews.com...
Anthony wrote:

OT bull**** not marked OT


wow, they say nothing about the ongoing saga of criminal republicans, but
the
instant they find something on a democrat they scream for a rope....
Does anyone think Gunner isn't brain-damaged?

We all know the sad case of Gunner's brain situation. But aside from making
a scene every time a Democrat goes off the rails, don't you wonder how many
of those criticizing Kennedy are themselves drug addicts and alcoholics? We
already have seen what a hypocrite the drug addled Rush Limbaugh is, and to
make matters worse, he's on record as being for harsh and extreme penalties
for people committing drug related crimes, with himself excepted. I expect
that the same is true for those right wingers coming down on Kennedy for his
drug problems. They probably have the same problems, but being hypocrites,
they take the opportunity to come down on someone else whenever possible.
Which only goes to show their complete lack of character.

Hawke

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 May 2006 14:26:38 -0700, "John Kunkel"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
Recently the media(Dem) has been soft peddling the most recent of
many car crashes, bizarre episodes and drug rehab excuses of Democrat
Congressman Patrick Kennedy.

And this differs from your coke-snorting, alcoholic, DWI busted president?

Do you have proof of his current addiction?


Addiction, past or present, speaks of character. Shouldn't Kennedy be given
the same opportunity to reform as your beloved president? If the shrub was
executed (as you suggest) during his days of addiction the point would be
moot and the world would be a better place.



Or anything other than a DWI? Please provide it.

Proof? Do you mean something besides his own admission of being an addict?

"John Kunkel" wrote in message
. ..

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 May 2006 14:26:38 -0700, "John Kunkel"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
Recently the media(Dem) has been soft peddling the most recent of
many car crashes, bizarre episodes and drug rehab excuses of Democrat
Congressman Patrick Kennedy.

And this differs from your coke-snorting, alcoholic, DWI busted
president?

Do you have proof of his current addiction?


Addiction, past or present, speaks of character. Shouldn't Kennedy be
given
the same opportunity to reform as your beloved president? If the shrub was
executed (as you suggest) during his days of addiction the point would be
moot and the world would be a better place.



Or anything other than a DWI? Please provide it.

Proof? Do you mean something besides his own admission of being an addict?

He never admitted being an addict, and has never been treated for addiction.
Both are considered necessary steps for overcoming addiction. If the rumors
are to be believed, he has since moved on from alcohol and cocaine to
prescription medications, and his behavior has become increasingly erratic.

His reported DUI, car crashes, drunken confrontation with his father and
brushes with the law, loss of flight status after refusing to take an
ordered flight physical that may have included a drug test for the first
time, along with his unwillingness to either deny or discuss his behavior
prior to age forty all support an inference of possible heavy drug abuse in
his past.

I also found his spending exactly one year doing "voluntary" community
service with disadvantaged children, never to be repeated, to be exactly
like the classic alternative sometimes given in lieu of criminal
prosecution, typically for some drug offense. It serves the interests of
justice, and protects the offender from being saddled with a criminal
record. Bush doesn't strike me as the type to actually volunteer for such
service, especially he did it only once for just a year, then never did
anything similar ever again. This strongly implies he did it for reasons
other than charitable intent.

I also found the claim that he choked on a pretzel to the point of
unconsciousness while alone in the private quarters to be non-credible and
highly suspicious. In twenty years as a paramedic, I've seen plenty of
choking incidents, and I just don't believe that a healthy adult couldn't
reflexively clear his airway of a pretzel unless his protective reflexes
were impaired by alcohol, drugs or some other cause.

But, no, none of this constitutes "proof."

Jeff

On 7 May 2006 07:53:09 -0700, "kurgan" wrote:

The debate over Prescott Bush's behaviour has been bubbling under the
surface for some time. There has been a steady internet chatter about
the "Bush/Nazi" connection, much of it inaccurate and unfair. But the
new documents, many of which were only declassified last year, show
that even after America had entered the war and when there was already
significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked
for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German
businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power. It has also been
suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to
establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty.

He continued doing so long after it was illegal to do so. Hence the
legal actions taken against him -- and he got off almost scott-free,
probably due to pull & $$.
This has long been well known.
--
Cliff

On Sun, 07 May 2006 17:30:53 GMT, Gunner wrote:

When the ADL gives you a clean bill of health..its pretty solid.

They love the neocons, right?
--
Cliff

On Sun, 07 May 2006 10:51:22 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:

I doubt that he had diddle to do with your lack of being informed, or
your constant unsported spew.

Found those "WMDs" yet?
How about those three "communists" under your bed?
--
Cliff

On Sun, 07 May 2006 19:07:58 GMT, Gunner wrote:

Its akin to European Royalty..everyone in the biz is related to one
another in some fashion or another, no matter the country.

Sounds like incest & nepotism run wild ... look at the results.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...pad/1143pe.jpg
--
Cliff

Well the president hasn't fallen off the wagon time and time again at the cost of
those who elect him to office. Kinda like calling in sick excessively and letting
the customer and manager down. Kennedy keeps falling down and as you can see on the
TV yourself - he is a chronic abuser - and a chronic story teller to say it nice.


Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member


John Kunkel wrote:
"Gunner" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 6 May 2006 14:26:38 -0700, "John Kunkel"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
...

Recently the media(Dem) has been soft peddling the most recent of
many car crashes, bizarre episodes and drug rehab excuses of Democrat
Congressman Patrick Kennedy.

And this differs from your coke-snorting, alcoholic, DWI busted president?

Do you have proof of his current addiction?



Addiction, past or present, speaks of character. Shouldn't Kennedy be given
the same opportunity to reform as your beloved president? If the shrub was
executed (as you suggest) during his days of addiction the point would be
moot and the world would be a better place.




Or anything other than a DWI? Please provide it.


Proof? Do you mean something besides his own admission of being an addict?



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http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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"Well the president hasn't fallen off the wagon time and time again at
the cost of
those who elect him to office. Kinda like calling in sick excessively
and letting
the customer and manager down. "

You may want to rethink these statements.

Dear George Jr. likes to take ALOT of vacations (I believe I read
somewhere is the record holder for not being on the job)...ever wonder
why he does?

He isn't clearing bush all the time....

You may also want to consider why Bush took so long to personally
respond to Katrina...it does take days to dry out when you are on a
bender.

TMT