I have a 150amp panel in my home, which is decently full, but probably
has space for about another 70amps worth of breakers, but only about 4
spots left.

I HAD planned on running a 70 amp breaker, and then 4 gauge wire to my
garage to a new breaker panel. That will probably max out my panel in
my house. I've done all of the math, and I'm pretty sure it can handle
that.

One of the reasons I am doing this is to run some 230V tools in my
garage. Now recently, I may have come across the opportunity to get a
used cheap Millermatic 250 Welder, which is going to pull 44-45 amps vs
the original 20 amps, I was going to pull with a smaller Welder. This
welder all by itself would require a 60 or 70 amp breaker. So now, I
would like to run 100 amps to my garage instead.

Because of this, I'm thinking I need to increase my House Panel from
150amps to 200amps. What all is involved in this? Does the electrical
company usually do this for free? I know I will need to buy a bigger
main breaker, will there be anymore cost involved?

Is 4 gauge NM-B still ok for 100 amps, or is it pushing it too much?
Pushing that much through it, does that present a fire risk, or is 4
still enough? That kind of distance should be a 2% or less drop, which
is ok, just curious about heat.

This will be through my Basement Ceiling Joists, then up a Garage
finished wall, then through the Garage Attic, then to a Breaker Panel.
Should be about 70-80 feet.

Thanks, James

In article .com,
"sparty" wrote:

Because of this, I'm thinking I need to increase my House Panel from
150amps to 200amps. What all is involved in this?

At the *VERY* least, you're going to need a new main breaker. Beyond
that, well... You've heard that old line "The sky's the limit"?

Your first step is finding out what the power company has you hooked up
as. If you're on a 150 amp feedline, then without a service change,
that's your ceiling - Period. If you're wired as a 200 amp or higher
service (fairly common, but NOT universal) the power company won't need
to be involved - Just the panel/inside wiring changes that might be
required. Otherwise, you'll need a new service drop of the right
capacity, and that's going to run into medium-to-large dollars.

Does the electrical company usually do this for free?

Are you out of your everluvin' skull???

I want to try some of whatever it is you're smoking to get yourself
*THAT* stoned!

Expect to be charged if they need to change out or rewire your pole-pig
and/or change your drop line - Wouldn't surprise me if they charged it
the same as a completely new installation, all the while telling you
what amounts to "Poor planning isn't our problem. You should have
thought of that when you had the service installed in the first place".
And grinning all the way to the bank, of course.

Also expect to need city/county/state/whatever's applicable permits, and
a demand from the local powers that be that the work be done by a
licensed electrician, then inspected the same as when the initial hookup
was made - each one wanting their piece of the pie, of course.

I know I will need to buy a bigger
main breaker, will there be anymore cost involved?

I imagine the breaker will be the smallest cost involved, with plenty
more piled on top of it. Sucks, but that's pretty much reality if you
want it done (A) right (B) legally, and (C) insurably.

--
Don Bruder - - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd for more info

Here's my 2 cents FWIW:

How often are you going to be welding at full amperage? I would gues
very infrequently... so you will very rarely pull that kind of current.
Also, welding is an intermittent load... so, you can get away with less
current capacity, cause you aren't running continuously. And, anyways,
70A is plenty... you're not planning on welding at full current while
running a big lathe taking a .500" DOC, with a load of wash in the W/D,
the electric stove boiling spaghetti on every burner, and every light
in the house on, right? I'd suggest work with what you got if you can't
up your service easily. Get to buildin'!

Sounds a whole lot like what I went through a few years ago. I bought a house
which had a large 2-car garage below, and planned to use that full-time as my
shop. All good except there was very little wiring down there. There was a 220A
connection for an electric hot water heater which wasn't used, so I cobbled up a
long extension cord and just used my machines one at a time. My house at that
time had a 200 amp service which was absolutely maxed.

After about a year we did a significant addition which doubled my shop space. I
decided to deal with my power issue properly. I had to start by finding out what
was available from my power company. I discovered that 400A services (what I
wanted) are only granted sparingly. I managed to get them to agree, then I had
to get hold of the local electrical inspector and ask him what I'd have to do.
He said I could put in a 400A service which split to two 200A panels, one to my
existing panel, and I could pull the other 200A down to a subpanel in my shop,
but I would have to have a disconnect outside at the service entrance so the
firemen could shut off the power if they had to. You don't have to do this if
the panel is right inside the back door, but if the panel is down through to the
basement, you gotta have it. The meter box (Square D) cost me about $600
wholesale on my electrician buddy's account, another $200 for the adapter it
needed (it was set up for buried power feed and ours is overhead). Then about
another $2800 in electrical labor and parts and I had a nice Square D 200A panel
in my shop.

In my shop, I have a bunch of machines, some 220 single phase, some 220 3-phase
running through a phase converter, and some 110 single phase. Included are 2
welders (one a Millermatic 250) which should by rights have a 60A 220V plug.
They are wired into a 40A circuit, one or the other (never both) and are never
used at anything like full amperage. My philosophy is this is a one-man shop, so
I can run my 30A three-phase power all over the place and as long as I only turn
on one machine at a time nothing bad happens.

You can't realistically do a major electrical move like this without getting a
permit. Think about what happens if something in your shop starts a fire which
does a lot of damage, and the insurance company were to find out you had major
unpermitted uninspected wiring. They could legally refuse to pay. Unless you're
as crazy as friends of mine who own large houses and drive cars without
insurance, you won't go there. So I suggest you do what I did and start by
calling your local building department and talking to the electrical inspector,
then call your power company. What they say is what you will have to pay for.
It's simple, but not cheap.

GWE

sparty wrote:

I have a 150amp panel in my home, which is decently full, but probably
has space for about another 70amps worth of breakers, but only about 4
spots left.

I HAD planned on running a 70 amp breaker, and then 4 gauge wire to my
garage to a new breaker panel. That will probably max out my panel in
my house. I've done all of the math, and I'm pretty sure it can handle
that.

One of the reasons I am doing this is to run some 230V tools in my
garage. Now recently, I may have come across the opportunity to get a
used cheap Millermatic 250 Welder, which is going to pull 44-45 amps vs
the original 20 amps, I was going to pull with a smaller Welder. This
welder all by itself would require a 60 or 70 amp breaker. So now, I
would like to run 100 amps to my garage instead.

Because of this, I'm thinking I need to increase my House Panel from
150amps to 200amps. What all is involved in this? Does the electrical
company usually do this for free? I know I will need to buy a bigger
main breaker, will there be anymore cost involved?

Is 4 gauge NM-B still ok for 100 amps, or is it pushing it too much?
Pushing that much through it, does that present a fire risk, or is 4
still enough? That kind of distance should be a 2% or less drop, which
is ok, just curious about heat.

This will be through my Basement Ceiling Joists, then up a Garage
finished wall, then through the Garage Attic, then to a Breaker Panel.
Should be about 70-80 feet.

Thanks, James

I have seen something you have posted earler

This is everything that will be on the breaker box, with room for a
hair more.


Equip Voltage Amps Watts


Welder 230 27 6210
Compressor 230 20 4600
Tools Outlet 120 20 2400
Outdoor Lights 120 20 2400
Misc 120 15 1800


Total Watts 17410
First 10,000 Watts at 100% 10000
Remaining Watts at 40% 2964
Total Watts for AMP determination 12964


AMPS needed total watts / 230V 56.37


Thanks, James


I have a few questions, and comments. Any one who don't agree feel
free to set me strait. First thing the new welder will only use 47
amps when you turn it up all the way. Not that you would not want to
use it cranked up all the way, but when you do you can always turn the
compressor off. the next thing you have shown, but was not clear was
the 120v loads. The loads could be put on opposite phases so the load
will not be 40 amps when you have 20 Amps on the black phase and 20
amps on the red phase it will be 20 amps. How many horse power
compressor do you have if you take the horsepower and multuply it by
746 that will give you the ammount of watts. Just because you use a 20
amp breaker that doesn't mean that the circuit will automatically draw
20 amps it just means that the wire that runs to the load is protected
at 20 amps. And on the outside lights you would have to have alot of
lights burning to equal 2400 watts. If you take the ammount of watts
off the bulbs you plan to use that will help your equation out alot.
I am not wanting you to change your mind, just giving some food for
thought before you spend three thousand dollars on electrical instead
of more metal working equipment.
PLE

"sparty" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a 150amp panel in my home, which is decently full, but probably
has space for about another 70amps worth of breakers, but only about 4
spots left.

I HAD planned on running a 70 amp breaker, and then 4 gauge wire to my
garage to a new breaker panel. That will probably max out my panel in
my house. I've done all of the math, and I'm pretty sure it can handle
that.

One of the reasons I am doing this is to run some 230V tools in my
garage. Now recently, I may have come across the opportunity to get a
used cheap Millermatic 250 Welder, which is going to pull 44-45 amps vs
the original 20 amps, I was going to pull with a smaller Welder. This
welder all by itself would require a 60 or 70 amp breaker. So now, I
would like to run 100 amps to my garage instead.

Because of this, I'm thinking I need to increase my House Panel from
150amps to 200amps. What all is involved in this? Does the electrical
company usually do this for free?

Service upgrades don't cost anything here unless you go underground. The
utility doesn't always change the drop anyway. Electricians like to be paid,
however. The electrician has to do everything beyond the service drop from
the pole.

I know I will need to buy a bigger
main breaker, will there be anymore cost involved?

Unless your existing panel is UL rated for a 200 amp breaker you will be
buying a new panel, which will come with a breaker. You might as well get
the new panel, which will have more spaces.

Is 4 gauge NM-B still ok for 100 amps, or is it pushing it too much?
Pushing that much through it, does that present a fire risk, or is 4
still enough? That kind of distance should be a 2% or less drop, which
is ok, just curious about heat.



This will be through my Basement Ceiling Joists, then up a Garage
finished wall, then through the Garage Attic, then to a Breaker Panel.
Should be about 70-80 feet.

Thanks, James

I think you'll be fine with your 70 amp subpanel. Install it and take some
current readings before you change your whole service. You'll probably be
surprised how little you're drawing.

The Local Electric is usually responsible up to the meter base. You might
be able to contact them regarding the transformer capability, how many homes
are connected with yours, etc. The last time I counted, I had 1800 amps of
breakers on a 225 amp main. It doesn't matter how many breakers or feeds
you might have but how much you turn on at one time. You might want to make
sure the electric oven is off when the welder is running. You should be OK.
Respectfully,
Ron Moore

"sparty" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a 150amp panel in my home, which is decently full, but probably
has space for about another 70amps worth of breakers, but only about 4
spots left.

I HAD planned on running a 70 amp breaker, and then 4 gauge wire to my
garage to a new breaker panel. That will probably max out my panel in
my house. I've done all of the math, and I'm pretty sure it can handle
that.

One of the reasons I am doing this is to run some 230V tools in my
garage. Now recently, I may have come across the opportunity to get a
used cheap Millermatic 250 Welder, which is going to pull 44-45 amps vs
the original 20 amps, I was going to pull with a smaller Welder. This
welder all by itself would require a 60 or 70 amp breaker. So now, I
would like to run 100 amps to my garage instead.

Because of this, I'm thinking I need to increase my House Panel from
150amps to 200amps. What all is involved in this? Does the electrical
company usually do this for free? I know I will need to buy a bigger
main breaker, will there be anymore cost involved?

Is 4 gauge NM-B still ok for 100 amps, or is it pushing it too much?
Pushing that much through it, does that present a fire risk, or is 4
still enough? That kind of distance should be a 2% or less drop, which
is ok, just curious about heat.

This will be through my Basement Ceiling Joists, then up a Garage
finished wall, then through the Garage Attic, then to a Breaker Panel.
Should be about 70-80 feet.

Thanks, James

See interlinear comments. I upgraded my house from 60A service to 350A
service. I'm not an electrician so I had to do a *lot* of research. Was
able after some self education (bought and studied a copy of the NEC) to get
a city permit and do it safely myself. The inspector was impressed, so I
must have done at least a decent job. =) See comments interlinear.

"sparty" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a 150amp panel in my home, which is decently full, but probably
has space for about another 70amps worth of breakers, but only about 4
spots left.

I HAD planned on running a 70 amp breaker, and then 4 gauge wire to my
garage to a new breaker panel. That will probably max out my panel in
my house. I've done all of the math, and I'm pretty sure it can handle
that.

One of the reasons I am doing this is to run some 230V tools in my
garage. Now recently, I may have come across the opportunity to get a
used cheap Millermatic 250 Welder, which is going to pull 44-45 amps vs
the original 20 amps, I was going to pull with a smaller Welder. This
welder all by itself would require a 60 or 70 amp breaker. So now, I
would like to run 100 amps to my garage instead.

I ended up completely redoing the service to my house. Put in twin 200 Amp
panels to match the large twin lug meter, swapped a 150 into the panel for
the house for a total of 350 amps.

Because of this, I'm thinking I need to increase my House Panel from
150amps to 200amps. What all is involved in this? Does the electrical
company usually do this for free?

In Omaha at least the power company is required by the city to provide
service on their end (appropriately sized transformer, meter socket, meter,
wire from the pole to my wires protruding from the mast thru the roof) at no
charge. Before I started the project, I called the power company and got in
touch with the service designer over my area. He was pretty helpful.
Didn't hurt that I sounded motivated to do whatever my part was and not be a
nuisance. My neighborhood was built in the late sixties. He came out and
looked things over. Said they would have to upgrade the current transformer
that runs the block. Turns out they dug a new hole in my yard, installed my
own utility pole and hung a commercial sized transformer just for my house.
The old can stayed one house over and runs everyone up the block from me
while mine now runs everyone from my house down. It seems they didn't want
the block to brown out when I cranked things up. =) I'm tapped directly off
the big can.

I know I will need to buy a bigger
main breaker, will there be anymore cost involved?

You need to make sure the existing panel is rated for the bigger breaker.
For me to replace the 200A breaker with a 150 in one of my panels it was
actually cheaper to buy another main breaker panel kit with the same style
breaker and use the one it came with.

I realize you are talking a much simpler project, but for mine the basic
order was something like this:
-call the power company to make sure the project was doable and glean what I
could in the way of their special requirements
-get the city permit
-power company issued me a new meter socket, no charge
-power co sends a team to install "my" new utility pole in preparation for
my upgrade, also no charge
-install a complete overhead service about 20' from my old one to place the
new panels directly in the garage
-install new monster grounding rod system sized for the new service.
Interestingly enough the conductor running just to the ground rods is bigger
than the old main service lines
-convert my old panel into a subpanel (just separating neutral from ground,
had to install another ground bus)
-install a single breaker to feed the old house subpanel from the new house
panel
-wire everything literally just short of connecting the new panel to the old
main breaker. I ran the wires all the way and taped the ends to avoid
fireworks before the power company came out to shut off the old and transfer
to the new transformer
-make sure everything is perfect, then have the inspector out to have his
look
-inform the power co that the inspection is complete and approved
-schedule a day for them to come do the switch
-wait around most of the day for them to come =)
-power co. crew arrives and kills power to the block
-with a flashlight i do the final hookup inside between new panel and (old,
now sub)panel
-give the crew the thumbs up that I'm done and everything is squared away
inside. ie: no shorts. =)
-line outside goes live
-check voltages inside before throwin' the switch
-done. From tabulated resistance values, I calculated that at full 350A
load the aluminum wiring between the house and pole becomes an approx. 1000
watt strip heater. The power company does not have to obey NEC for
distribution lines. Even so, the voltage drop at that load should be less
than 4 volts. Better than the guys at the far end of the block get even at
low loading.

The only cost to me was for the permit and inspection, the hardware and wire
inside the house and some of the stuff outside the house. I bought and own
the mast and the copper wire inside. The meter socket is now an integral
part of my house and they tell me it is mine to keep. The meter itself and
the wire going from my mast to the transformer at the corner of the yard are
owned by the power company, provided at no cost to me.

Is 4 gauge NM-B still ok for 100 amps, or is it pushing it too much?

There are so many tables for the various insulation/environment combinations
it takes me a bit to find the right one. Hopefully someone will chime in
with an expert tip.

Pushing that much through it, does that present a fire risk, or is 4
still enough? That kind of distance should be a 2% or less drop, which
is ok, just curious about heat.

This will be through my Basement Ceiling Joists, then up a Garage
finished wall, then through the Garage Attic, then to a Breaker Panel.
Should be about 70-80 feet.

Thanks, James


hth,

StaticsJason

"sparty" wrote in news:1139532111.190142.301710
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:


This will be through my Basement Ceiling Joists, then up a Garage
finished wall, then through the Garage Attic, then to a Breaker Panel.
Should be about 70-80 feet.


Personally, I would just upgrade the entrance service (meter base) to a
400 Amp unit with a 350A disconnect and split between the existing 150
Amp service and a new 200 amp box in the basement. This will cover any
future additions (lathe/mill/surface grinder/other cool tools) you may do
also.



--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

"ATP*" wrote in message
...

"sparty" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a 150amp panel in my home, which is decently full, but probably
has space for about another 70amps worth of breakers, but only about 4
spots left.

I HAD planned on running a 70 amp breaker, and then 4 gauge wire to my
garage to a new breaker panel. That will probably max out my panel in
my house. I've done all of the math, and I'm pretty sure it can handle
that.

One of the reasons I am doing this is to run some 230V tools in my
garage. Now recently, I may have come across the opportunity to get a
used cheap Millermatic 250 Welder, which is going to pull 44-45 amps vs
the original 20 amps, I was going to pull with a smaller Welder. This
welder all by itself would require a 60 or 70 amp breaker. So now, I
would like to run 100 amps to my garage instead.

Because of this, I'm thinking I need to increase my House Panel from
150amps to 200amps. What all is involved in this? Does the electrical
company usually do this for free?

Service upgrades don't cost anything here unless you go underground. The
utility doesn't always change the drop anyway. Electricians like to be
paid, however. The electrician has to do everything beyond the service
drop from the pole.


Depends on where you live. In North Carolina the property owner can do
their own electrical work. Still has to be permitted, inspected and meet
code but an electrician isn't required.

Steve.
Who is currently installing a 200A panel and all the wiring in my new shop.

On 9 Feb 2006 16:41:51 -0800, "sparty" wrote:

I have a 150amp panel in my home, which is decently full, but probably
has space for about another 70amps worth of breakers, but only about 4
spots left.

I HAD planned on running a 70 amp breaker, and then 4 gauge wire to my
garage to a new breaker panel. That will probably max out my panel in
my house. I've done all of the math, and I'm pretty sure it can handle
that.

One of the reasons I am doing this is to run some 230V tools in my
garage. Now recently, I may have come across the opportunity to get a
used cheap Millermatic 250 Welder, which is going to pull 44-45 amps vs
the original 20 amps, I was going to pull with a smaller Welder. This
welder all by itself would require a 60 or 70 amp breaker. So now, I
would like to run 100 amps to my garage instead.

Because of this, I'm thinking I need to increase my House Panel from
150amps to 200amps. What all is involved in this? Does the electrical
company usually do this for free? I know I will need to buy a bigger
main breaker, will there be anymore cost involved?

Is 4 gauge NM-B still ok for 100 amps, or is it pushing it too much?
Pushing that much through it, does that present a fire risk, or is 4
still enough? That kind of distance should be a 2% or less drop, which
is ok, just curious about heat.

This will be through my Basement Ceiling Joists, then up a Garage
finished wall, then through the Garage Attic, then to a Breaker Panel.
Should be about 70-80 feet.

Thanks, James

Several months ago I got a call from DTE Energy (Southeast Michigan),
wanting to know if they could send someone out to do a "meter audit".
Thier concern, they said, was dogs and safety of the auditor.

Anyway, when the guy got here I followed him out back where, as near
as I could tell, all he did was verify the serial number on the meter.

Getting to the point of all this, I mentioned to him that I was
considering a similar upgrade from 100A to 200A, and I was curious as
to what was involved.

The guy told me that I didn't need to do that, since I already had
200A service, and he showed me on the meter where it was marked as
such. He said that for DTE, a 200A installation is their normal
practice, unless the customer requests more.

Since this is an old house, and an old meter, I'd assumed the service
was only 100A, which matches the breaker box in the house.

So maybe all you need to do is find out what your service will handle
and change the breaker box accordingly.

I don't know where you're located but I can't imagine that DTE is
alone in this practice.

"Adam" wrote in message
oups.com...
Here's my 2 cents FWIW:

How often are you going to be welding at full amperage? I would gues
very infrequently... so you will very rarely pull that kind of current.
Also, welding is an intermittent load... so, you can get away with less
current capacity, cause you aren't running continuously. And, anyways,
70A is plenty... you're not planning on welding at full current while
running a big lathe taking a .500" DOC, with a load of wash in the W/D,
the electric stove boiling spaghetti on every burner, and every light
in the house on, right? I'd suggest work with what you got if you can't
up your service easily. Get to buildin'!


That's pretty much what my power company told me when I told them 200 amps
wasn't enough.

I have 2 edms
1 cnc lathe
3 cnc mills
air conditioned shop (over 5 tons)
large air compressor to run the place
And multiple manual machines and welders.


They said to contact them when I noticed power problems....It's been 5
years, and I still haven't had to call them.

I ran my whole shop on a 70 amp breaker,2 phase convertors, 2 cnc knee
mills, 5 hp lathe, 2hp tumbler, 5 hp fully auto cold saw, saws, drill
presses, compressor, 1200 watts of light. Did occasionally pop the
breaker. That is with 2 cncs running, the FA saw and compressor going
and the tumbler going

What I would have done different, which I don't see mentioned: much
bigger feed wire ga. try a 1/0 instead of 4 ga, you will be happier.

The power company replaced the wire from the pole to the house because
the other side of the 2 family the lights blinked when I powered up a
machine.

I now run my shop on a 175 amp breaker, 3phase, with 3 cnc mills, much
bigger compressor, tig welder, 80 kva VMC, 3 tumblers an tons more lights.


400 amps is nuts



Dave Lyon wrote:
"Adam" wrote in message
oups.com...

Here's my 2 cents FWIW:

How often are you going to be welding at full amperage? I would gues
very infrequently... so you will very rarely pull that kind of current.
Also, welding is an intermittent load... so, you can get away with less
current capacity, cause you aren't running continuously. And, anyways,
70A is plenty... you're not planning on welding at full current while
running a big lathe taking a .500" DOC, with a load of wash in the W/D,
the electric stove boiling spaghetti on every burner, and every light
in the house on, right? I'd suggest work with what you got if you can't
up your service easily. Get to buildin'!



That's pretty much what my power company told me when I told them 200 amps
wasn't enough.

I have 2 edms
1 cnc lathe
3 cnc mills
air conditioned shop (over 5 tons)
large air compressor to run the place
And multiple manual machines and welders.


They said to contact them when I noticed power problems....It's been 5
years, and I still haven't had to call them.

I'm not familiar with 1/0 or 2/0 wire. I guess that is just a thick
copper wire shielded. So I would need 3 of those to run Hot, Hot,
Neutral wire? Plus I would need a ground wire? How does that compare
price wise? Also, what is the best way to wrap them together, and do
you have to run it through condiut?

Also, the Millermatic 250, that I was trying to buy, fell through, so I
won't have anything that big now. I know I would never need anything
bigger than a Millermatic 210, but saw the 250 for a good price and
that fell through.

I just bought a Hobart Handler 180 reconditioned welder off Ebay today
for cheap, so will be using that for a long time. That is rated for 20
amps, and something like a Millermatic 210 or Hobart IronMan 210 are
rated at 25 - 27 amps. So now I know I won't ever need a 45 amp
welder, 25 - 27 amps max. Also the more I think about it, I will never
be using the Air Compressor and Welder at the same time. So I'm sure I
could take my Air Compressor off the list, math wise.

I think this may be good enough for the math

Welder, Tools Outlet, Outdoor Lights. What do these Welders draw
usually just being turned on and not used? Just incase I have it on,
and am running saws or grindings at the same time.

I'm starting to think now, I could easily run 6 ga wire and a 50-60 amp
breaker and be just fine. Any opinions on that? I can get 6 ga wire
pretty easy and cheap in my area. I can get that as low as $1.10 /
foot, where I got quoted $2.46 / foot for 4 gauge. I may still run the
4 ga though to be safe. Would cost me about $100 or so more to run,
but might save me in the future, if I don't need to up the amperage.

"SteveF" wrote in message
...

"ATP*" wrote in message
...

"sparty" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a 150amp panel in my home, which is decently full, but probably
has space for about another 70amps worth of breakers, but only about 4
spots left.

I HAD planned on running a 70 amp breaker, and then 4 gauge wire to my
garage to a new breaker panel. That will probably max out my panel in
my house. I've done all of the math, and I'm pretty sure it can handle
that.

One of the reasons I am doing this is to run some 230V tools in my
garage. Now recently, I may have come across the opportunity to get a
used cheap Millermatic 250 Welder, which is going to pull 44-45 amps vs
the original 20 amps, I was going to pull with a smaller Welder. This
welder all by itself would require a 60 or 70 amp breaker. So now, I
would like to run 100 amps to my garage instead.

Because of this, I'm thinking I need to increase my House Panel from
150amps to 200amps. What all is involved in this? Does the electrical
company usually do this for free?

Service upgrades don't cost anything here unless you go underground. The
utility doesn't always change the drop anyway. Electricians like to be
paid, however. The electrician has to do everything beyond the service
drop from the pole.


Depends on where you live. In North Carolina the property owner can do
their own electrical work. Still has to be permitted, inspected and meet
code but an electrician isn't required.

Steve.
Who is currently installing a 200A panel and all the wiring in my new
shop.

I didn't mean to imply that a licensed electrician is required. Very few
homeowners are up to the task of bugnutting the live service drop, which is
part of the job here since the utility's responsibility ends at the drop.

I can easily run wires and hook them up no problem. Just for kicks
though, I'm going to call the city and ask them if I can take a test or
something along that to do my own electricity and get it inspected. I
know someone where I used to live in TX, that called and they let him
take a test and get a temporary license to do his own.

Irving, TX, where I live, just requires you have a permit and have it pass
inspection. The inspector I dealt with told me he would help in any way but
would not pull wire. If I had a question he answered it. When I was finished
it was to code. He also told me of shortcuts to save money. When I asked
about brands of breakers he said he couldn't recommend any brand BUT brand x
would not trip as fast as brand y. (Drag test of a live wire to ground, x
would let the wire weld before opening. Y opened as soon as it touched, my
choice).

--

Clif Holland KA5IPF
www.avvid.com


"sparty" wrote in message
oups.com...
I can easily run wires and hook them up no problem. Just for kicks
though, I'm going to call the city and ask them if I can take a test or
something along that to do my own electricity and get it inspected. I
know someone where I used to live in TX, that called and they let him
take a test and get a temporary license to do his own.

According to sparty :
I'm not familiar with 1/0 or 2/0 wire.

That's where you wind up after going through the normal wire
gauge sizes -- from say 22 or 18 ga (zip cord), 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4
and 2, you then hit 0 (which is also called 1/0), then 2/0, 3/0, and
4/0. That last size is about the diameter of my middle finger,
exclusive of the insulation. There are smaller and larger wires, but
these are the ones which I have worked with.

Suffice it to say that 2/0 is capable of carrying eight to
sixteen times the current of the wire sizes which you mentioned in the
part which I trimmed below.

I guess that is just a thick
copper wire shielded.

You mean "insulated"? Shielded requires a layer of insulation
one or more layers of electrical braid or foil, and another layer of
insulation, and shielding is uncommon on power wiring -- more for low
level signal wiring to keep electrical noise out.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 00:49:50 +0000, Clif Holland top-posted:

Irving, TX, where I live, just requires you have a permit and have it pass
inspection. The inspector I dealt with told me he would help in any way
but would not pull wire. If I had a question he answered it. When I was
finished it was to code. He also told me of shortcuts to save money. When
I asked about brands of breakers he said he couldn't recommend any brand
BUT brand x would not trip as fast as brand y. (Drag test of a live wire
to ground, x would let the wire weld before opening. Y opened as soon as
it touched, my choice).

Sounds like a right neighborly fellow! :-) Was he charging by the hour? ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 00:49:50 +0000, Clif Holland top-posted:

Irving, TX, where I live, just requires you have a permit and have it
pass
inspection. The inspector I dealt with told me he would help in any way
but would not pull wire. If I had a question he answered it. When I was
finished it was to code. He also told me of shortcuts to save money. When
I asked about brands of breakers he said he couldn't recommend any brand
BUT brand x would not trip as fast as brand y. (Drag test of a live wire
to ground, x would let the wire weld before opening. Y opened as soon as
it touched, my choice).

Sounds like a right neighborly fellow! :-) Was he charging by the hour?
;-)

Cheers!
Rich


Nope, once I paid for the permit he was the inspector, no additional charge.
As you can figure out a super nice guy.

--

Clif Holland KA5IPF
www.avvid.com

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 05:36:01 GMT, "Clif Holland"
wrote:



"Rich Grise" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 00:49:50 +0000, Clif Holland top-posted:

Irving, TX, where I live, just requires you have a permit and have it
pass
inspection. The inspector I dealt with told me he would help in any way
but would not pull wire. If I had a question he answered it. When I was
finished it was to code. He also told me of shortcuts to save money. When
I asked about brands of breakers he said he couldn't recommend any brand
BUT brand x would not trip as fast as brand y. (Drag test of a live wire
to ground, x would let the wire weld before opening. Y opened as soon as
it touched, my choice).

Sounds like a right neighborly fellow! :-) Was he charging by the hour?
;-)

Cheers!
Rich


Nope, once I paid for the permit he was the inspector, no additional charge.
As you can figure out a super nice guy.
The chap who inspected my last house when I re-wired it, noticed that
I had not installed a gasket where the overhead service stack (scepter
aka plastic conduit) connected to the meter box, provided the required
cork gasket and showed me how to instal it without pulling the wire
out - just unbolt the flange, break the gasket on one side and slide
it into place. Later he noted that I had grounded the copper drain
from the kitchen sink and commented that this was not required by code
but was such a good idea that he intended to do the same in his own
home so I paid him back for the gasket with the proper ground clamp
salvaged from work.
I never had any problem with inspectors even though they always knew
that I was not licensed, but had been working at the trade part time
since 1948. The city building inspector, on the other hand, just about
blew a fuse when he discovered my lack of license,however, the house
had been passed and the service connected. His only recouse was to
tell me not to wire any more houses in his territory, so we built the
next house in a neighbouring village. His main concern was that he
wanted to sell me a city business licence and couldn't do it without a
journeyman ticket.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada