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| Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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I need a welder
Grr, damn flux isn't working on this rusty 1/4x1 1/4" flat bar...
(yeah, I know, clean off the rust, so what.) Plus I burn 5-10 minutes of propane each time I try brazing this... I need a welder!!! This thing looks pretty lame but do you think it would be worth it? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=34 099 Mom and Dad have a severe aversion to anything over 4 cents.. Tim -- "That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms |
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#2
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I need a welder
"Tim Williams" wrote in message ... Grr, damn flux isn't working on this rusty 1/4x1 1/4" flat bar... (yeah, I know, clean off the rust, so what.) Plus I burn 5-10 minutes of propane each time I try brazing this... I need a welder!!! This thing looks pretty lame but do you think it would be worth it? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=34 099 Mom and Dad have a severe aversion to anything over 4 cents.. Tim -- "That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms One prime directive in life that cannot be ignored: "Ya gotta have the correct tool for the job." |
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#3
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I need a welder
I have one of those. It's usable but not really slick. OK with 3/32 6013,
probably would be better with 1/16. Made in Italy for Harbor Freight and sold new in the $59.99-79.99 range. They usually go for $40-60 on eBay. What's your maximum price range? The Century/Sears models with the sliding lever probably would be better, but closer to $80-100. GTO(John) Grr, damn flux isn't working on this rusty 1/4x1 1/4" flat bar... (yeah, I know, clean off the rust, so what.) Plus I burn 5-10 minutes of propane each time I try brazing this... I need a welder!!! This thing looks pretty lame but do you think it would be worth it? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=34 099 Mom and Dad have a severe aversion to anything over 4 cents.. Tim -- "That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms |
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#4
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I need a welder
Stick welding isn't hard. Used AC buzzbox welders are often available for
$40 or less but still work fine. Pick up some used lead and a stinger and ground clamp and a welding helmet and slag hammer and some rod and you will be "in bidness" as they say in Texas .. and you won't own some consumer POS like is in that URL you posted. - GWE |
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#5
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I need a welder
"Tim Williams" wrote in message ... Grr, damn flux isn't working on this rusty 1/4x1 1/4" flat bar... (yeah, I know, clean off the rust, so what.) Plus I burn 5-10 minutes of propane each time I try brazing this... I need a welder!!! This thing looks pretty lame but do you think it would be worth it? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=34 099 Mom and Dad have a severe aversion to anything over 4 cents.. Tim -- "That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms No offense intended in the following message: NO! You need to learn how to weld. You can do a LOT with just an AC?DC welder that you can buy anywhere used for about $100. From there, you go from there. An experienced welder can take most anything and make it work. An inexperienced welder can take the best machine out there and mess things up. How do you get experience? By doing. Go take some courses. It is infinitely cheaper than buying welder after welder. Once in a welding circle of friends, you will probably find many more deals far better than this ebay cheap-O! Once you learn to weld, buy good machinery because it will last, it will make you money, and you won't outgrow it as your skill, knowledge, and talents increase. I know this doesn't help you much now when you really want to get going. So, go sign up for some classes, get your feet wet, and be able to make good choices based on your OWN knowledge. Talk to anyone who will listen, and anyone who has a welder. Save yer dough until you are SURE. You can fry Franklins at an amazing rate when you are starting out. Steve, who has been welding since 1974. Underwater. Topside. x-ray certified. ex-steel erection contractor. Presently owns welding machines, and welds. Good luck. Have fun. And remember ............... this is not a test. You WILL make mistakes. Just study in advance, and learn when you do make a booboo. As long as it doesn't cost you a finger, no big deal. |
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#6
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I need a welder
"Tim Williams" wrote in message ...
Grr, damn flux isn't working on this rusty 1/4x1 1/4" flat bar... (yeah, I know, clean off the rust, so what.) Plus I burn 5-10 minutes of propane each time I try brazing this... I need a welder!!! This thing looks pretty lame but do you think it would be worth it? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=34 099 Mom and Dad have a severe aversion to anything over 4 cents.. Tim Chicago electric is one of Harbor Fright's house brands. Might see what it goes for there. |
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#7
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I need a welder
"SteveB" wrote in message
news:q56Cb.67$BQ5.51@fed1read03... An experienced welder can take most anything and make it work. An inexperienced welder can take the best machine out there and mess things up. How do you get experience? By doing. Go take some courses. I'll have to see if Blackhawk Tech. has a summer welding class... That wouldn't be bad because the parents would be paying for it, but they would justify it as education (and whatever tax benefits that holds, what Idunno... and not to say I wouldn't mind a proper welding education!) Still doesn't get a welder in my basement though :-p It is infinitely cheaper than buying welder after welder. I'm a quick study, and remember I made something cheezier before - http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/...timwelder.html I got some neat looking welds off that, if brittle because the beads became pretty much white cast iron... Besides that, my friend has taken a highschool welding class, so he can show me the jist of it. Save yer dough until you are SURE. You can fry Franklins at an amazing rate when you are starting out. I can certainly understand that.. TIGs starting around $1k for instance... Good luck. Have fun. And remember ............... this is not a test. You WILL make mistakes. Just study in advance, and learn when you do make a booboo. As long as it doesn't cost you a finger, no big deal. It's gonna cost an arm and a leg though, at least where I am now... I need a job... Tim -- "That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms |
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#8
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I need a welder
Yes, you do! Everybody needs a welder. A small ac only stick welder
would be very useful. It opens up a whole other dimension of "shop". You say cost is very important, but for the basic stuff it doesn't have to be the best. Stick welders are not sophisticated machines. There are differences, but not like the differences between different MIG or TIG machines. I'd recommend a 30-120A HF machine. Cheap and free shipping. 220v input option. People say that you can get used tombstones cheap, but not around here (eastern Mass) - maybe in your area, maybe not. If you buy used and have to replace parts, that can add up (try pricing cable). Or take a long time finding used/bargain parts. Welding classes can be pretty expensive too. Unless, of course, parents view them as "education" and have different justification. You don't need them to start - there are books to get you started. You're not going to be welding pressure vessels, are you? I do most of my stuff with 6013 rods, horizontal. Pretty easy. Go for it! Bob BTW - 6010 is better for dirty/rusty/painted stock, but even 6013 just welds right through it. Again, it's not pressure vessels. |
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#9
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I need a welder
"SteveB" wrote in message
news:q56Cb.67$BQ5.51@fed1read03... An experienced welder can take most anything and make it work. An inexperienced welder can take the best machine out there and mess things up. How do you get experience? By doing. Go take some courses. I'll have to see if Blackhawk Tech. has a summer welding class... That wouldn't be bad because the parents would be paying for it, but they would justify it as education (and whatever tax benefits that holds, what Idunno... and not to say I wouldn't mind a proper welding education!) Still doesn't get a welder in my basement though :-p It is infinitely cheaper than buying welder after welder. I'm a quick study, and remember I made something cheezier before - http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/...timwelder.html I got some neat looking welds off that, if brittle because the beads became pretty much white cast iron... Besides that, my friend has taken a highschool welding class, so he can show me the jist of it. Save yer dough until you are SURE. You can fry Franklins at an amazing rate when you are starting out. I can certainly understand that.. TIGs starting around $1k for instance... Good luck. Have fun. And remember ............... this is not a test. You WILL make mistakes. Just study in advance, and learn when you do make a booboo. As long as it doesn't cost you a finger, no big deal. It's gonna cost an arm and a leg though, at least where I am now... I need a job... Tim -- "That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms Maybe you have a few people in the neighborhood that may have an old Lincoln AC buzzbox that's not being used - and you could trade some labor for it??? Ken. |
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#11
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I need a welder
Classes aren't cheap but the one I have been taking at night, you almost
pay for the course with what consumables you use. We were taught on a variety of rods, doing mainly fillets on the horizontal. Whatever you do, don't buy a 120V welder, I have one due to power restraints and it is frustrating to learn on due to it's limited abilities. If money is that tight, it may be better to find somebody with the proper equipment that you can trade labour for or even get some hands on training, then to buy equipment that won't fulfill your needs in a years time. DanK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- "Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message ... Yes, you do! Everybody needs a welder. A small ac only stick welder would be very useful. It opens up a whole other dimension of "shop". You say cost is very important, but for the basic stuff it doesn't have to be the best. Stick welders are not sophisticated machines. There are differences, but not like the differences between different MIG or TIG machines. I'd recommend a 30-120A HF machine. Cheap and free shipping. 220v input option. People say that you can get used tombstones cheap, but not around here (eastern Mass) - maybe in your area, maybe not. If you buy used and have to replace parts, that can add up (try pricing cable). Or take a long time finding used/bargain parts. Welding classes can be pretty expensive too. Unless, of course, parents view them as "education" and have different justification. You don't need them to start - there are books to get you started. You're not going to be welding pressure vessels, are you? I do most of my stuff with 6013 rods, horizontal. Pretty easy. Go for it! Bob BTW - 6010 is better for dirty/rusty/painted stock, but even 6013 just welds right through it. Again, it's not pressure vessels. |
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#12
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I need a welder
"DanK" wrote in message ... Classes aren't cheap but the one I have been taking at night, you almost pay for the course with what consumables you use. We were taught on a variety of rods, doing mainly fillets on the horizontal. ABSOLUTELY! Just the price of steel and rods (which most schools have donated) make it a deal. Then, you get to use machine beveled materials in some courses, which is expensive stuff. Particularly in pipe classes. I tend to think that classes ARE cheap. If they charged a person for the steel and rods at the going rate, the price would jump up quite a bit. IMHO, that is. And when you come to aluminum and stainless, the price goes through the roof. If you are showing a talent, the instructor will usually let you use other machines and techniques to try them. Where are you going to get metal, a $4,000 welding machine, and argon handed to you? Welding classes are like a buffet. If you walk away and not get your money's worth, you are the one to blame. A person can learn to weld without classes, but it will take a lot longer and a lot more materials. Someone can SHOW you things about welding in ONE day that you can't learn on your own in months. But isn't that a "class" too? STeve |
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#13
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I need a welder
SteveB wrote:
[about how cheap welding classes are relative to the material supplied (rods, steel, beveled material, pipe, aluminum, stainless) and the machines available] Put yourself in Tim's shoes (he's the OP). He's having trouble affording a sub-$100 stick machine. I don't think aluminum, stainless, MIG, or TIG are in his foreseeable future. All that stuff is nice, but it's really off-thread. Tim will be _really_ happy being able to weld 1/16 - 1/4 mild steel, horizontal. He has a friend to show him that. I can buy scrap from a local fabricator for $.05 a pound. 6013 is, what, $2/lb? For $25 Tim can buy 50lb of scrap and 5lb each of 3/32 and 1/8 6013 and be practicing. Add the price of a 6-pack for his buddy. Maybe someday Tim will be another Ernie and classes would certainly be involved. Right now Tim just wants to make things. Just do it, Tim. BTW - I hope that I didn't put too many words in your mouth. :-) Bob |
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#14
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I need a welder
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:05:19 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote: "DanK" wrote in message ... Classes aren't cheap but the one I have been taking at night, you almost pay for the course with what consumables you use. We were taught on a variety of rods, doing mainly fillets on the horizontal. ABSOLUTELY! Just the price of steel and rods (which most schools have donated) make it a deal. Then, you get to use machine beveled materials in some courses, which is expensive stuff. Particularly in pipe classes. I tend to think that classes ARE cheap. If they charged a person for the steel and rods at the going rate, the price would jump up quite a bit. IMHO, that is. And when you come to aluminum and stainless, the price goes through the roof. I took a 3 unit TIG class. $33 (was $11/unit, they just went up to $18/unit) It's too bad the TIG pipe class is never offered at a time I can take it.... Welders: Miller Aerowave and Synchowaves and assorted other heavy duty units. (Water cooled torches.) Materials: Provided.. We welded mostly thin aluminum and stainless. No additional materials fee. All the Tungstens I contaminated, ground, recontaminated, and eventually required replacing probably cost as much as the class.. I also took a 4 unit intro course where they covered, SMAW, GTAW, GMAW, O/A, Plasma Cutting. I went through atleast 10 lbs of electrodes.. I also used lots of electricity, gas, wire, metal coupons.. Cost $44. Instructor w/ 20+ years of experience.. Cost: Included! Grand Total: $77 for a semester of welding. Money well spent... __________________ Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with 'mail'. N38.6 W121.4 |
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#15
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I need a welder
"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
... Just do it, Tim. BTW - I hope that I didn't put too many words in your mouth. :-) Nope, all sounds right.  Only I don't know where the scrap is... :-oTim -- "That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms |
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#16
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I need a welder
Tim Williams wrote:
... Only I don't know where the scrap is... :-o .... The place I got mine was a weldor-fabricator. They custom make landscape trailers, parts racks, pretty much anything smaller than a building. Look in the Yellow Pages under "Steel Fabricators" or "Welding". A welding supply house could probably give you a name. Visiting is better than the phone. Tell them you need _scrap_ to practice on. Given you're a kid (in their eyes) and want to learn welding, they might even give it to you. Price will be a matter of the nuisance cost to them. I.e., if they don't want to be bothered it will be higher. But the scrap itself is worthless to them. Worse, they probably have to pay to have it taken away. You know that, they know that. It's a good place to be friendly with. When you what to make something and need _stock_, it can be the place to get that, too. My place is cheaper than the local steel yard, unless I want it cut. Their cutting charge is outrageous ($15). It's cheaper to buy much more than I need in a whole piece. Good luck, Bob |
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#17
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I need a welder
I can buy scrap from a local fabricator for $.05 a pound. 6013 is,
what, $2/lb? For $25 Tim can buy 50lb of scrap and 5lb each of 3/32 and 1/8 6013 and be practicing. I'd recommend 7014, since it's so easy to run with a buzzbox... 7018AC is nice too. Keep an eye out in the local Pennysaver/WantAd/ Uncle Henry's/Town Crier or whatever it is they call the local classified ad magazine or paper in your neck of the woods. Look for a Lincoln 225AC or Miller Thunderbolt, you will occasionally see them for maybe $50. Don't be scared by bad paint. For only $15 more than that auction welder with shipping you'll be a _lot_ happier. I've tried to use one of those little 110v welders and it was truly miserable. It will take patience and persistence to find the deal, though. --Glenn Lyford |
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#18
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I need a welder
Glenn Lyford wrote:
I'd recommend 7014, since it's so easy to run with a buzzbox... 7018AC is nice too. ^^^^^^ If you have an oven to keep them in. Keep an eye out in the local Pennysaver/WantAd/ Uncle Henry's/Town Crier or whatever it is they call the local classified ad magazine or paper in your neck of the woods. Look for a Lincoln 225AC or Miller Thunderbolt, you will occasionally see them for maybe $50. ... Not in Eastern Mass. I just checked our "Want Advertiser": about 500 items in "Tools", 3 were for stick welders. A Lincoln for $150, a Sears for $175, and a Miller for $100 ("cables and clamps also available"). That's typical IIRC. |
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