Anyone got a "training collar" that would be interesting in selling
it?

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

The dog is great around familiar people, but tends to nut roll around
strangers..no one bitten yet..but scared the hell out of a few people.
Overly protective, aggressive.

She is worried..(quite rightly) about it biting someone and while the
muzzle Ive provided her is a stop gap measure, the time has come to
put a collar on the sob and stun his ass the moment he starts being
aggressive. The alternative is killing the dog, and as its her best
friend..shrug

Ive got an older Innotek remote setup, but the collar receiver is a
sealed unit and the rechargable battery has died. Im told by others
that its a potted unit (filled with silicone) and is impossible to
replace the battery. Ive got an email into the manufactures
support..and will call..and as a last resort, will use a slitting saw
on the case and pop it open and see what I can do...but..shrug. I
bought this unit about 15yrs ago from a buddy who was upgrading to a
collar with a longer range, used it for a couple days on a dog who
used to bolt whenever he was outside..which cured him very
quickly..then put it away and just now dug it out to find the battery
is toast.

The lady is looking to purchase another one if this one cannot be
fixed..but she is, like everyone else..not very well off.

Thanks

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:51:45 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Anyone got a "training collar" that would be interesting in selling
it?

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

The dog is great around familiar people, but tends to nut roll around
strangers..no one bitten yet..but scared the hell out of a few people.
Overly protective, aggressive.

She is worried..(quite rightly) about it biting someone and while the
muzzle Ive provided her is a stop gap measure, the time has come to
put a collar on the sob and stun his ass the moment he starts being
aggressive. The alternative is killing the dog, and as its her best
friend..shrug

Ive got an older Innotek remote setup, but the collar receiver is a
sealed unit and the rechargable battery has died. Im told by others
that its a potted unit (filled with silicone) and is impossible to
replace the battery. Ive got an email into the manufactures
support..and will call..and as a last resort, will use a slitting saw
on the case and pop it open and see what I can do...but..shrug. I
bought this unit about 15yrs ago from a buddy who was upgrading to a
collar with a longer range, used it for a couple days on a dog who
used to bolt whenever he was outside..which cured him very
quickly..then put it away and just now dug it out to find the battery
is toast.

The lady is looking to purchase another one if this one cannot be
fixed..but she is, like everyone else..not very well off.

Thanks

Gunner

Any idea what kind of battery? It's probably Ni-Cd, but what size
and how many cells? Even if you can't duplicate it, you can
certainly duplicate the voltage if you know the cell count. See
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T053/1499.pdf
for some possibilities.

Surgery on RTV (silicone) isn't too hard with an exacto knife,
Dremel, and sometimes a hot soldering iron. Lemme know if you'd
like a hand with this project, pro-bono of course. I have 2-part RTV
on hand for repotting.

Gunner Asch wrote:
Anyone got a "training collar" that would be interesting in selling
it?

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

The dog is great around familiar people, but tends to nut roll around
strangers..no one bitten yet..but scared the hell out of a few people.
Overly protective, aggressive.

She is worried..(quite rightly) about it biting someone and while the
muzzle Ive provided her is a stop gap measure, the time has come to
put a collar on the sob and stun his ass the moment he starts being
aggressive. The alternative is killing the dog, and as its her best
friend..shrug

Ive got an older Innotek remote setup, but the collar receiver is a
sealed unit and the rechargable battery has died. Im told by others
that its a potted unit (filled with silicone) and is impossible to
replace the battery. Ive got an email into the manufactures
support..and will call..and as a last resort, will use a slitting saw
on the case and pop it open and see what I can do...but..shrug. I
bought this unit about 15yrs ago from a buddy who was upgrading to a
collar with a longer range, used it for a couple days on a dog who
used to bolt whenever he was outside..which cured him very
quickly..then put it away and just now dug it out to find the battery
is toast.

The lady is looking to purchase another one if this one cannot be
fixed..but she is, like everyone else..not very well off.

Thanks

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Call Uncle Matty.
http://www.unclematty.com/dir_frame.htm

Serving Dog Owners Worldwide.
Training is handled out of Southern California.
Administration/operations are in Diamond Springs, California.
General Store ships worldwide from Salt Lake City, UT.
Mailing Address
P.O. Box 3300, Diamond Springs, CA 95619
Main Telephone: 800-670-9663
Fax: 530-621-7114
Training Information: 800-334-3647
Career Information: 800-670-9663

General Store
Customer Service 800-670-9663

Hours: Mon-Fri 9AM to 5PM Pacific Time


:/
Halcitron

In article , Don Foreman says...

Any idea what kind of battery? It's probably Ni-Cd, but what size
and how many cells? Even if you can't duplicate it, you can
certainly duplicate the voltage if you know the cell count. See
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T053/1499.pdf
for some possibilities.

And the new cells don't absolutely *have* to fit inside the
space for the old ones. If there's any doubt that the
unit still works, you might consider splicing in a few
regular alkaline D cells to match the voltage (nicads are
what, 1.2 volts?) just to check it out before going
whole hog (er, dog) on it.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Don't overlook the possibility of mounting the battery pack on the outside
of the collar, and running a pair of leads into the circuit.

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:12:43 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:51:45 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Anyone got a "training collar" that would be interesting in selling
it?

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

The dog is great around familiar people, but tends to nut roll around
strangers..no one bitten yet..but scared the hell out of a few people.
Overly protective, aggressive.

She is worried..(quite rightly) about it biting someone and while the
muzzle Ive provided her is a stop gap measure, the time has come to
put a collar on the sob and stun his ass the moment he starts being
aggressive. The alternative is killing the dog, and as its her best
friend..shrug

Ive got an older Innotek remote setup, but the collar receiver is a
sealed unit and the rechargable battery has died. Im told by others
that its a potted unit (filled with silicone) and is impossible to
replace the battery. Ive got an email into the manufactures
support..and will call..and as a last resort, will use a slitting saw
on the case and pop it open and see what I can do...but..shrug. I
bought this unit about 15yrs ago from a buddy who was upgrading to a
collar with a longer range, used it for a couple days on a dog who
used to bolt whenever he was outside..which cured him very
quickly..then put it away and just now dug it out to find the battery
is toast.

The lady is looking to purchase another one if this one cannot be
fixed..but she is, like everyone else..not very well off.

Thanks

Gunner

Any idea what kind of battery? It's probably Ni-Cd, but what size
and how many cells? Even if you can't duplicate it, you can
certainly duplicate the voltage if you know the cell count. See
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T053/1499.pdf
for some possibilities.

Surgery on RTV (silicone) isn't too hard with an exacto knife,
Dremel, and sometimes a hot soldering iron. Lemme know if you'd
like a hand with this project, pro-bono of course. I have 2-part RTV
on hand for repotting.

The wall wart that is the charger..is 12vts dc, 100 ma.

The receiver unit is a monolithic block about 1.25 x 1.75, just
looking at it..and contains the coded receiver, battery and high
voltage generator. I can just bearly make out where the join was..or
should be..so thats where Ill make the slice using a .07 saw blade in
the mill.
Given its age..Im betting its a nicad pack..very small one

Ive got GE potting compound, though no idea if its any good anymore
...chuckle..its been a while since Ive used it.

Thanks for the offer, I may take you up on it.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:51:45 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

The dog is great around familiar people, but tends to nut roll around
strangers..no one bitten yet..but scared the hell out of a few people.
Overly protective, aggressive.

Stay well away from them.
Dogs seem to be good judges of character.
--
Cliff

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:51:45 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

The alternative is killing the dog, and as its her best
friend..shrug

Right. Your first thought is killing ... her best friend.
--
Cliff

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:51:45 GMT, the renowned Gunner Asch
wrote:

on the case and pop it open and see what I can do...but..shrug. I
bought this unit about 15yrs ago from a buddy who was upgrading to a
collar with a longer range, used it for a couple days on a dog who
used to bolt whenever he was outside..which cured him very
quickly..then put it away and just now dug it out to find the battery
is toast.

I've got some battery packs for Tritronics units-- they are three NiMH
AAA cells in a heat shrink pack with a little connector on them. Let
me know if one of those would be any help.

BTW, apparently it's not good to try to solder to ordinary NiMH cells
because of the internal structure, like many of us have done with NiCd
cells.

Best regards,

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

In article , Cliff says...

Right. Your first thought is killing ... her best friend.

Ah, you seem to be missing a key point here - namely the
intent behind the post in the first place.....

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Gunner,

Before starting surgery on the collar, make darn sure the wall wart
charger is working.

More than once I have had a charger, its cable or connector become
intermitent and lead me down the wrong path.

It will have a Nicd battery inside and for the collar to suddenly not
take any charge is unusual.

If you have to go into the collar, a light touch should do it since the
potting material is there to prevent moisture ingress and not for
tampering resistance.

Good luck,

TMT

On 21 Nov 2005 10:20:02 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Cliff says...

Right. Your first thought is killing ... her best friend.

Ah, you seem to be missing a key point here - namely the
intent behind the post in the first place.....

Jim

Cliff..is pointless..as usual.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:51:45 +0000, Gunner Asch wrote:

Anyone got a "training collar" that would be interesting in selling
it?

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

The dog is great around familiar people, but tends to nut roll around
strangers..no one bitten yet..but scared the hell out of a few people.
Overly protective, aggressive.

She is worried..(quite rightly) about it biting someone and while the
muzzle Ive provided her is a stop gap measure, the time has come to
put a collar on the sob and stun his ass the moment he starts being
aggressive. The alternative is killing the dog, and as its her best
friend..shrug

Ive got an older Innotek remote setup, but the collar receiver is a
sealed unit and the rechargable battery has died. Im told by others
that its a potted unit (filled with silicone) and is impossible to
replace the battery.

My usual response to people considering a remote collar is that they get
some professional advice. They work well, if used correctly, but they are
very easy to misuse.

But if you have one, you may well have learned how to use it. But have
you used it to deal with aggression?

Using aversives to control aggression is a very tricky area - it's very
easy to make the dog a lot worse, if you don't do it right.

As for the batteries, I don't know about the Innotek. I've been told that Dogtra and Tritronics
are simply o-ring sealed. Not that it's not easy to screw up an o-ring
when closing things back together.

I will say that the last thing you want to put on a dog is an improperly
functioning collar. If it delivers the stim late, or an inconsistent
levels, your better off without it. And if, God forbid, it shorts...

It's not an area I'd recommend people be cheap.

--
Quidam ludunt, quidam bibunt,
quidam indiscrete vivunt,
sed in ludu qui morandur,
ex his quidam denudantur.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
Anyone got a "training collar" that would be interesting in selling
it?

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

The dog is great around familiar people, but tends to nut roll
around
strangers..no one bitten yet..but scared the hell out of a few
people.
Overly protective, aggressive.

She is worried..(quite rightly) about it biting someone and while
the
muzzle Ive provided her is a stop gap measure, the time has come to
put a collar on the sob and stun his ass the moment he starts being
aggressive. The alternative is killing the dog, and as its her best
friend..shrug

Ive got an older Innotek remote setup, but the collar receiver is a
sealed unit and the rechargable battery has died. Im told by others
that its a potted unit (filled with silicone) and is impossible to
replace the battery. Ive got an email into the manufactures
support..and will call..and as a last resort, will use a slitting
saw
on the case and pop it open and see what I can do...but..shrug. I
bought this unit about 15yrs ago from a buddy who was upgrading to a
collar with a longer range, used it for a couple days on a dog who
used to bolt whenever he was outside..which cured him very
quickly..then put it away and just now dug it out to find the
battery
is toast.

The lady is looking to purchase another one if this one cannot be
fixed..but she is, like everyone else..not very well off.

Thanks

Gunner


Just be careful if she says she wants to buy you a shirt for being so
helpful and asks to measure your neck : )

Cliff wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

The dog is great around familiar people, but tends to nut roll around
strangers..no one bitten yet..but scared the hell out of a few people.
Overly protective, aggressive.

Stay well away from them.
Dogs seem to be good judges of character.

I think it's rather that they become like their owners.

Gio

Jeff Dege wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

Anyone got a "training collar" that would be interesting in selling
it?

My usual response to people considering a remote collar is that they get
some professional advice. They work well, if used correctly, but they are
very easy to misuse.

But if you have one, you may well have learned how to use it. But have
you used it to deal with aggression?

Using aversives to control aggression is a very tricky area - it's very
easy to make the dog a lot worse, if you don't do it right.

You're talking to a cat lover who still thinks that training the
Vietnamese was a good idea. And he wants a tighter collar on them
damned Iraqis too. He definitely needs a model that will stand up to
shocking the same dog thousands of times with no results.

Gio

Dealing with an aggressive dog is a tricky affair. Like a prior poster
recommended, get professional advice from a qualified dog trainer.
They can make a proper evaluation. I have known if situations where
the only solution was to put the dog down. A terrible outcome, but far
better outcome than an attacked person. Trainers have taught me
techniques that would have not come up with on my own.

Bob

Gunner Asch wrote:
Anyone got a "training collar" that would be interesting in selling
it?

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

I know those dogs... they change dramatically if you expose them to lots
o people.

But you can't just bring them there, you have to be involved with
getting to know the other people (and their dogs.) The dog takes the
que somehow and changes his/her ideas about others.

Socialization is the key.

er
--
email not valid

"Enoch Root" wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:
Anyone got a "training collar" that would be interesting in selling
it?

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

I know those dogs... they change dramatically if you expose them to lots
o people.

But you can't just bring them there, you have to be involved with
getting to know the other people (and their dogs.) The dog takes the
que somehow and changes his/her ideas about others.

Socialization is the key.

Correct, as does having control of the dog in the first place, i.e., the dog
owner establishing and reinforcing herself as alpha. Of course, then you
get into the area of human behavior with some women (and men, for that
matter) not being comfortable establishing themselves as an alpha, in which
case a professional dog trainer will help train the human how to assert
themselves in the relationship.

Dogs are easy to train; training people to understand the factors that
influence behavior is the tough part.

Jon

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:55:09 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

On 21 Nov 2005 10:20:02 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

Cliff..is pointless..as usual.

Which means he is never worth a reply, boys and girls.
Why must so many of you continue to reply to all of his posts?

I thought you guys were smarter than that. --(SUBTLE HINT)

big sigh



--
Sex is Evil, Evil is Sin, Sin is Forgiven.
Gee, ain't religion GREAT?
---------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Sin-free Website Design

In article , Larry Jaques says...

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:55:09 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

On 21 Nov 2005 10:20:02 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

Cliff..is pointless..as usual.

Actually incorrect. That's gunner's comment above.

I commented because this was a case where the cliffmeister
didn't actually spam with an ot crossposted troll. And
yet he still didn't grasp the concepts being put forth.
It just seemed a bit much even for him.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Gunner Asch wrote:
Anyone got a "training collar" that would be interesting in selling
it?

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

These things don't work with all dogs. Once they discover that the
blitz only lasts for a few seconds and then they are through the
"fence" and free to travel miles, the war is lost. We had a neighbor
that had a dog that had figured this out, and no collar would
deter him. They got a collar so powerful it would knock him out.
His solution was to charge through the fence with enough velocity
so his parylyzed budy would roll through the zone and he'd come
to rest outside. A couple seconds later, he'd come to, and prance
off. Not only that, he taught their OTHER dog the same trick.
Then, they had TWO wanderers.

Yeah, if you had the thing stored for 15 years, the Ni Cads are
toast. There's nothing potted so well a determined person can't
get inside, if he's careful.

Jon

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:32:22 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Anyone got a "training collar" that would be interesting in selling
it?

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

These things don't work with all dogs. Once they discover that the
blitz only lasts for a few seconds and then they are through the
"fence" and free to travel miles, the war is lost.

He's talking about a remote training collar, not an electric fence. They
stim when the trainer hits a button on the transmitter, not when the dog
gets too close to a boundary line.

That said, if you introduce the collar to the dog incorrectly, he may well
learn that the appropriate response to a stim is to run away as fast as he
can. It's why you should get someone with experience to guide you through
that first session.

--
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give
orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem,
pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently,
die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
- R. A. Heinlein

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:16:12 -0800, Enoch Root wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Anyone got a "training collar" that would be interesting in selling
it?

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

I know those dogs... they change dramatically if you expose them to lots
o people.

But you can't just bring them there, you have to be involved with
getting to know the other people (and their dogs.) The dog takes the
que somehow and changes his/her ideas about others.

Socialization is the key.

What people call "aggressiveness" in dogs can be any of a number of
different behaviors. Fear aggressiveness is very different from dominance
aggressiveness is very different from plain old viciousness.

Trying to use techniques appropriate for dealing with a dominant
aggressive dog can make the problem worse if you really have a fear
aggressive dog, and can get people badly hurt if you really have a vicious
dog.

That's why it's so important to get someone who has real experience
dealing with aggressiveness to observe the dog.

--
He was a conservative in the sense that he believed civilization to be
something laboriously achieved which was only precariously defended. He
wanted to see the defences fully manned and he hated the liberals because
he thought them gullible and feeble, believing in the easy perfectibility
of man and ready to abandon the work of centuries for sentimental qualms.
- Evelyn Waugh on Rudyard Kipling

"Rick" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
Anyone got a "training collar" that would be interesting in selling
it?

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

The dog is great around familiar people, but tends to nut roll
around
strangers..no one bitten yet..but scared the hell out of a few
people.
Overly protective, aggressive.

She is worried..(quite rightly) about it biting someone and while
the
muzzle Ive provided her is a stop gap measure, the time has come to
put a collar on the sob and stun his ass the moment he starts being
aggressive. The alternative is killing the dog, and as its her best
friend..shrug

Ive got an older Innotek remote setup, but the collar receiver is a
sealed unit and the rechargable battery has died. Im told by others
that its a potted unit (filled with silicone) and is impossible to
replace the battery. Ive got an email into the manufactures
support..and will call..and as a last resort, will use a slitting
saw
on the case and pop it open and see what I can do...but..shrug. I
bought this unit about 15yrs ago from a buddy who was upgrading to a
collar with a longer range, used it for a couple days on a dog who
used to bolt whenever he was outside..which cured him very
quickly..then put it away and just now dug it out to find the
battery
is toast.

The lady is looking to purchase another one if this one cannot be
fixed..but she is, like everyone else..not very well off.

Thanks


You have several choices but fixing a 15 year old electronic collar isn't
going to be one of them. There is an outfit called the Collar Clinic I
think, or something like that. You can find out with at Google search. They
sell new and refurbished dog collars so you can get them at a good price.
But an electronic collar is just a training device, meaning that the owner
has to "train" the dog. If the owner isn't up to doing that then the collar
is a waste of money. Just getting the collar is no guarantee of anything. I
just bought a Tritronics unit in September and am very happy with the way it
has allowed me to correct some problems I had with my dog. If you are
willing to spend the time training the dog the collar is a good solution. If
you can't do it yourself then you need to go to some different alternatives.

There was a dog expert on the Oprah Winfrey show a while back I think they
called him the dog whisperer and he's in Southern California some place. He
is a real wizard with dogs. I'm sure he could help but I doubt he'd be
available. But the point is there are plenty of other people that can help
with dog training. Any decent dog trainer can break a dog of aggressive
behavior. It is rare indeed to find a dog that can't be trained. But if your
friend had such a dog even then putting it down is not a good solution.
Usually a dog can be relocated to another home and/or owner that can deal
with the problem. Better to find a different home for the dog than to have
it killed.

Aggression in dogs is a common problem, finding a dog trainer to correct
this problem should not be too difficult or too expensive. Between the
electronic collar as a training device and consultation with a professional
trainer, breaking a dog from overly aggressive behavior isn't a big deal.
But I'm not surprised that it is a woman that has the problem. Most women
don't have the ability to command respect from many dogs. Get the dog and
the owner some training and then she will most likely be able to handle it.

Hawke

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:32:22 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

Yeah, if you had the thing stored for 15 years, the Ni Cads are
toast.

IIRC The problem is that the things dry out. IF that's the case
IF you can refill them with *distilled water* ......

A deeply discharged NiCd has another answer too IIRC. Something
about getting polarized ... ? Or is it that they have to be deeply
discharged or they will become poarized after many recharge cycles?
--
Cliff

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:39:43 -0800, "Hawke"
wrote:

Aggression in dogs is a common problem

Wingers ....
--
Cliff

Adjusting his nuts( metal content) i.e removal of
same, is often effective in reducing aggression in
dogs


"Enoch Root" wrote in
message
news:t6CdneOgI5aayB_enZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@forethought. net...
Gunner Asch wrote:
Anyone got a "training collar" that would be
interesting in selling
it?

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this
is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

I know those dogs... they change dramatically if
you expose them to lots
o people.

But you can't just bring them there, you have to
be involved with
getting to know the other people (and their
dogs.) The dog takes the
que somehow and changes his/her ideas about
others.

Socialization is the key.

er
--
email not valid

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:26:03 -0700, Gio Medici
wrote:

Jeff Dege wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

Anyone got a "training collar" that would be interesting in selling
it?

My usual response to people considering a remote collar is that they get
some professional advice. They work well, if used correctly, but they are
very easy to misuse.

But if you have one, you may well have learned how to use it. But have
you used it to deal with aggression?

Using aversives to control aggression is a very tricky area - it's very
easy to make the dog a lot worse, if you don't do it right.

You're talking to a cat lover who still thinks that training the
Vietnamese was a good idea. And he wants a tighter collar on them
damned Iraqis too. He definitely needs a model that will stand up to
shocking the same dog thousands of times with no results.

Gio

Oddly enough..this dog reminds me of you, Gio.
Moderatly stupid, it smells, tends to lick its ass in public, and has
no balls

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:27:00 -0600, Jeff Dege
wrote:


These things don't work with all dogs. Once they discover that the
blitz only lasts for a few seconds and then they are through the
"fence" and free to travel miles, the war is lost.

He's talking about a remote training collar, not an electric fence. They
stim when the trainer hits a button on the transmitter, not when the dog
gets too close to a boundary line.

That said, if you introduce the collar to the dog incorrectly, he may well
learn that the appropriate response to a stim is to run away as fast as he
can. It's why you should get someone with experience to guide you through
that first session.

I thank you for the suggestions. Ive had some small amounts of
training on the subject over the years, and have several professional
K9 trainers in my net work.

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:17:46 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

I thank you for the suggestions. Ive had some small amounts of
training on the subject over the years, and have several professional
K9 trainers in my net work.

Hence your posts here begging for help with a dog
that suspects you ....
--
Cliff

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:36:48 -0800, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

"Enoch Root" wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:
Anyone got a "training collar" that would be interesting in selling
it?

Ive a lady friend with a problem dog, and this is the last resort
before putting the dog down.

I know those dogs... they change dramatically if you expose them to lots
o people.

But you can't just bring them there, you have to be involved with
getting to know the other people (and their dogs.) The dog takes the
que somehow and changes his/her ideas about others.

Socialization is the key.

Correct, as does having control of the dog in the first place, i.e., the dog
owner establishing and reinforcing herself as alpha. Of course, then you
get into the area of human behavior with some women (and men, for that
matter) not being comfortable establishing themselves as an alpha, in which
case a professional dog trainer will help train the human how to assert
themselves in the relationship.

Dogs are easy to train; training people to understand the factors that
influence behavior is the tough part.

Jon

Very true. I have some experience in this...shrug...

The dog responds well with me, but the owner....tends to be something
of a softy..and has soft control of the lead. The dog has been
socialized with a number of dogs, cats and people, including public
parks. With me..the dog has good manners, with her..he nut rolls
unexpectedly. He has been neutered about 2 yrs ago, no complications,
etc etc
It did little to fix the problem.

He was taken to a professional trainer, who trained both the dog and
the woman. The dog did well for about 4 months..then reverts
occasionally.

I suspect its a protection thing..but its hard to determine the exact
cause, or trigger.

He/she needs to revisit a trainer..but she is unable to afford the
fees. Shrug.

So intelligent aversion training is indicated at this point.

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On 21 Nov 2005 10:46:22 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

Gunner,

Before starting surgery on the collar, make darn sure the wall wart
charger is working.

More than once I have had a charger, its cable or connector become
intermitent and lead me down the wrong path.

First thing I tried. I do repair CNC machinery for a living G But
thanks all the same.

It will have a Nicd battery inside and for the collar to suddenly not
take any charge is unusual.

If you have to go into the collar, a light touch should do it since the
potting material is there to prevent moisture ingress and not for
tampering resistance.

Good luck,

TMT

I called the manufacture yesterday morning and they of course dont
support the device any longer, but did offer to knock $50 off the
price of a new one..bringing the total down to about $200.....

So it looks like time for a bit of surgery.

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:07:54 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:55:09 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

On 21 Nov 2005 10:20:02 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

Cliff..is pointless..as usual.

Which means he is never worth a reply, boys and girls.
Why must so many of you continue to reply to all of his posts?

I thought you guys were smarter than that. --(SUBTLE HINT)

big sigh

Ahh...Larry? I dont respond to Clits posts. In fact..Ive got him kill
filed and for well over a year now.

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

In article , Gunner says...

So it looks like time for a bit of surgery.

Good luck and let us know what you find. Sometimes
potted stuff can be a real pain. I still have the
ignition module for a kawasaki KLR250 that I'm trying
to dismantle.

The stinkers loaded the epoxy potting compound with
grains of coarse quartz.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:25:32 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:07:54 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:55:09 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

On 21 Nov 2005 10:20:02 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

Cliff..is pointless..as usual.

Which means he is never worth a reply, boys and girls.
Why must so many of you continue to reply to all of his posts?

I thought you guys were smarter than that. --(SUBTLE HINT)

big sigh

Ahh...Larry? I dont respond to Clits posts. In fact..Ive got him kill
filed and for well over a year now.

I've plonked Cliff, too, but half your posts contain his sig. sigh

Well, you respond to so many of his trollings via answering someone
else's response to him that I can't filter out Cliff without filtering
your posts, too. I don't want to do that.
(The Limburg troll, neocons, ad nauseum)

I guess I need to harangue Fortè into updating Agent's filters for
message text. I bought Agent when it first came out a decade ago and
will gladly pay for the upgrade once that lone new feature is
integrated.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
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On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:58:54 -0500, Strabo
wrote:

Animals are taken from their natural environment by humans
and made neurotic by human interaction.

Wingers do so miss trees & caves.

The problem is that
you're counseling people who are more screwed up than their
animals.

Perhaps they should go back ....
--
Cliff

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:09:29 -0500, wrote:

"jmk" wrote:

I wanted a Republican dog.

so he can spend all day barking furiously at nonexistent cats ...

Dude, if you are going to jump in you gotta use, ""Found those "WMDs"
yet?""

No, he doesn't bark at the nonexistent cat.

Blind as a winger, eh?
--
Cliff

"Hawke" wrote:

... But the point is there are plenty of other people that can help
with dog training. Any decent dog trainer can break a dog of aggressive
behavior.....

But it's a rare dog that's worth the effort.

Gio

"The stinkers loaded the epoxy potting compound with grains of coarse
quartz. "

Oooh...nice touch...gotta remember that one. ;)

I have seen ground glass used before but quartz would be better....much
harder.

Another good one is to use THIN wire with insulation the exact same
color as the potting material...a nightmare to take apart.

TMT