In article 2Icef.574812$xm3.305769@attbi_s21, JWho says...

From an earlier post:

The bike is disassembled to the frame currently, so measuring rake and trail
is not possible right now. I haven't checked offset, as it is close to the
same, and if it were any different, it would be for the better. The tire OD
is the same. I'll have to get it all bolted up before worrying about fork
length (travel is the same, but axle to clamping area may be different). I
am thinking any slight height difference can be taken up by sliding the fork
tubes up in the clamps. Right now, I am just worried about how to get one
metalworking issue solved. I have to take care of "first things first".

As has been mentioned before, a steel spacer is the best way to go.
You are hampered by the thin wall that the geometry requires. You
cannot make this by hand. You will need to have it made on a lathe.
One way to do this is to shrink fit it (with heat) into the top clamp.
Shim stock is a bad approach I think.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article 2Icef.574812$xm3.305769@attbi_s21, JWho says...

From an earlier post:

The bike is disassembled to the frame currently, so measuring rake and
trail
is not possible right now. I haven't checked offset, as it is close to
the
same, and if it were any different, it would be for the better. The tire
OD
is the same. I'll have to get it all bolted up before worrying about
fork
length (travel is the same, but axle to clamping area may be different).
I
am thinking any slight height difference can be taken up by sliding the
fork
tubes up in the clamps. Right now, I am just worried about how to get
one
metalworking issue solved. I have to take care of "first things first".

As has been mentioned before, a steel spacer is the best way to go.
You are hampered by the thin wall that the geometry requires. You
cannot make this by hand. You will need to have it made on a lathe.
One way to do this is to shrink fit it (with heat) into the top clamp.
Shim stock is a bad approach I think.

Jim

Hi. I agree that a steel tube is the way to go. After everyone's advice, I
am not going to try the tube method by hand. If the stainless shim stock
and Loc-Tite 638 do not work, then I will definitely pay someone to make me
a couple of tubes/sleeves. Do you have a rough estimate of what this would
cost to have made at a local machine shop? I have never had any machine
shop work done, so I have no clue on how getting one to make something for
me would normally go. Do they charge by the hour, plus cost of the metal,
or just charge X amount for a particular job?

Thanks.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:32:49 GMT, "JWho" wrote:

The bike is disassembled to the frame currently, so measuring rake and trail
is not possible right now.

Actually it is. That would take some effort such as partial
reassembly of th' bike using th' old top triple tree and taking
measurements. Then measuring th' offset difference between th' old
and replacement trees and doing th' math. Th' question is, how much
effort is your hide worth g.

I haven't checked offset, as it is close to the
same, and if it were any different, it would be for the better.

Don't know how you can come to that conclusion without knowing exactly
what th' difference is. A degree or two is all it takes to make for
dramatic changes.

The tire OD
is the same. I'll have to get it all bolted up before worrying about fork
length (travel is the same, but axle to clamping area may be different). I
am thinking any slight height difference can be taken up by sliding the fork
tubes up in the clamps. Right now, I am just worried about how to get one
metalworking issue solved. I have to take care of "first things first".
:-)

Hold m' beer and watch this?

Snarl

On 15 Nov 2005 05:46:41 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:
In article 2Icef.574812$xm3.305769@attbi_s21, JWho says...

From an earlier post:

The bike is disassembled to the frame currently, so measuring rake and trail
is not possible right now. I haven't checked offset, as it is close to the
same, and if it were any different, it would be for the better. The tire OD
is the same. I'll have to get it all bolted up before worrying about fork
length (travel is the same, but axle to clamping area may be different). I
am thinking any slight height difference can be taken up by sliding the fork
tubes up in the clamps. Right now, I am just worried about how to get one
metalworking issue solved. I have to take care of "first things first".

As has been mentioned before, a steel spacer is the best way to go.
You are hampered by the thin wall that the geometry requires. You
cannot make this by hand. You will need to have it made on a lathe.
One way to do this is to shrink fit it (with heat) into the top clamp.
Shim stock is a bad approach I think.

{Satire Alert for the Humor Impaired...}

If I'm following this whole mess correctly through all the Angels
doing a Rockettes Dance Line on the head of a pin... ;-)

JWho is shimming where the steering bearing shaft goes through the
top and bottom plates of the triple tree, right?

(The other two holes are where the fork tubes go down to the front
tire, and the handlebars fasten to the top plate somehow.)

And he said something about their being nuts on the top and bottom
of each plate where he needs to shim the hole, right?

So both the shims would be held 100% captive by the nuts on top and
bottom, and washers on the sides toward the bearings, right?

So why the (heck) can't JWho just use a simple ring of .030
stainless shim stock (or the thickness needed) cut to the right length
and Loctite'd into place? Someone please tell me, I want to know!

Common sense, My GOD! What a CONCEPT!! ;-O

Somebody call Paul Teutel Sr. and Jr. and get their opinions on this
mess too, while we're at it! :-P I know Paul Sr. is in town, he
just Grand Marshaled the Love Ride. If you want abuse while building
a bike, he's the Go-To Guy to get it from...

{Satire Alert Off}

If that bearing shaft can't go anywhere, it should not be a problem.
And if he is bushing the hole evenly he isn't changing the steering
geometry at all - the hole is in the exact same place, it's just too
large.

Now if the triple tree and forks combination isn't the right
geometry for the bike, I can see a problem with that, but the bushing
for the steering shaft would not have anything to do with that. It's
just holding the shaft in the right place.

And in conclusion: Why is Common Sense so uncommon?

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

In article , Bruce L. Bergman
says...

So why the (heck) can't JWho just use a simple ring of .030
stainless shim stock (or the thickness needed) cut to the right length
and Loctite'd into place? Someone please tell me, I want to know!

He sure could. He could do a lot of stuff. It would
probably work. 95% of the time, for years, probably.

Heck he could stuff cardboard in there and the bike
would go down the road. Yep.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Bruce L. Bergman
says...

Common sense, My GOD! What a CONCEPT!! ;-O

He could also ask one of the guys who hangs out on r.m.harley
their opinion. I'd be willing to go by that.

:^)

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
On 15 Nov 2005 05:46:41 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:
In article 2Icef.574812$xm3.305769@attbi_s21, JWho says...

From an earlier post:

The bike is disassembled to the frame currently, so measuring rake and
trail
is not possible right now. I haven't checked offset, as it is close to
the
same, and if it were any different, it would be for the better. The
tire OD
is the same. I'll have to get it all bolted up before worrying about
fork
length (travel is the same, but axle to clamping area may be different).
I
am thinking any slight height difference can be taken up by sliding the
fork
tubes up in the clamps. Right now, I am just worried about how to get
one
metalworking issue solved. I have to take care of "first things first".

As has been mentioned before, a steel spacer is the best way to go.
You are hampered by the thin wall that the geometry requires. You
cannot make this by hand. You will need to have it made on a lathe.
One way to do this is to shrink fit it (with heat) into the top clamp.
Shim stock is a bad approach I think.

{Satire Alert for the Humor Impaired...}

If I'm following this whole mess correctly through all the Angels
doing a Rockettes Dance Line on the head of a pin... ;-)

JWho is shimming where the steering bearing shaft goes through the
top and bottom plates of the triple tree, right?

(The other two holes are where the fork tubes go down to the front
tire, and the handlebars fasten to the top plate somehow.)

And he said something about their being nuts on the top and bottom
of each plate where he needs to shim the hole, right?

So both the shims would be held 100% captive by the nuts on top and
bottom, and washers on the sides toward the bearings, right?

So why the (heck) can't JWho just use a simple ring of .030
stainless shim stock (or the thickness needed) cut to the right length
and Loctite'd into place? Someone please tell me, I want to know!

Common sense, My GOD! What a CONCEPT!! ;-O

Somebody call Paul Teutel Sr. and Jr. and get their opinions on this
mess too, while we're at it! :-P I know Paul Sr. is in town, he
just Grand Marshaled the Love Ride. If you want abuse while building
a bike, he's the Go-To Guy to get it from...

{Satire Alert Off}

If that bearing shaft can't go anywhere, it should not be a problem.
And if he is bushing the hole evenly he isn't changing the steering
geometry at all - the hole is in the exact same place, it's just too
large.

Now if the triple tree and forks combination isn't the right
geometry for the bike, I can see a problem with that, but the bushing
for the steering shaft would not have anything to do with that. It's
just holding the shaft in the right place.

And in conclusion: Why is Common Sense so uncommon?

-- Bruce --

Hi. Actually, it is just the top clamp, not both the top and bottom. I
know of one person who has 1,000 miles using just .025 brass shim stock to
take up the gap. There are several other people who have done similar, or
had a machine shop to install a bushing/sleeve/tube. NO ONE who has died
has reported of a failure. :-) From my measurements, it looks like the gap
between the shaft and clamp is 1.5 thousandths of an inch. I am hoping to
recreate that type of fit. I think the .025 tube/shim thickness is going to
be what is needed. I am trying to test fit some folded over aluminum foil
to test fit and then measure that with micrometers. Unforutnately, I don't
own a lathe, so I can't make up a few different sizes and just keep test
fitting them until I find the right one (measurement wise). "Nope that one
didn't fit, I need you to make me another one" is a whole lot of money spent
on gas to a machine shop or paying someone here to do it. :-(

Thanks.

JWho wrote:

"Nope that one
didn't fit, I need you to make me another one" is a whole lot of money spent
on gas to a machine shop or paying someone here to do it. :-(

Pay the shop to do the measuring too. They have better tools for it.

wrote in message
oups.com...
JWho wrote:

"Nope that one
didn't fit, I need you to make me another one" is a whole lot of money
spent
on gas to a machine shop or paying someone here to do it. :-(

Pay the shop to do the measuring too. They have better tools for it.


On average, what does a shop charge for an hourly rate, or do they just
charge per job?

Thanks.

In article ovIef.336421$084.211281@attbi_s22, JWho says...

On average, what does a shop charge for an hourly rate, or do they just
charge per job?

It varies. Basically you have to ask around. Make up a
simple hand sketch (no cad program needed) of what you
want. Put real dimensions on it, and put tolerances
on it. The lengths are going to be +/- 0.010 or so,
but the diameter will be +/- 0.001 or so, and be sure
you've chosen it so it will work if arrives just at
the tolerance limits.

If you show up with real numbers like that you may well
get a cheaper rate. But ask around and see what shops
are in the area.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 06:10:02 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On 15 Nov 2005 05:46:41 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:
In article 2Icef.574812$xm3.305769@attbi_s21, JWho says...

From an earlier post:

The bike is disassembled to the frame currently, so measuring rake and trail
is not possible right now. I haven't checked offset, as it is close to the
same, and if it were any different, it would be for the better. The tire OD
is the same. I'll have to get it all bolted up before worrying about fork
length (travel is the same, but axle to clamping area may be different). I
am thinking any slight height difference can be taken up by sliding the fork
tubes up in the clamps. Right now, I am just worried about how to get one
metalworking issue solved. I have to take care of "first things first".

As has been mentioned before, a steel spacer is the best way to go.
You are hampered by the thin wall that the geometry requires. You
cannot make this by hand. You will need to have it made on a lathe.
One way to do this is to shrink fit it (with heat) into the top clamp.
Shim stock is a bad approach I think.

{Satire Alert for the Humor Impaired...}

If I'm following this whole mess correctly through all the Angels
doing a Rockettes Dance Line on the head of a pin... ;-)

JWho is shimming where the steering bearing shaft goes through the
top and bottom plates of the triple tree, right?

(The other two holes are where the fork tubes go down to the front
tire, and the handlebars fasten to the top plate somehow.)

And he said something about their being nuts on the top and bottom
of each plate where he needs to shim the hole, right?

So both the shims would be held 100% captive by the nuts on top and
bottom, and washers on the sides toward the bearings, right?

So why the (heck) can't JWho just use a simple ring of .030
stainless shim stock (or the thickness needed) cut to the right length
and Loctite'd into place? Someone please tell me, I want to know!

Common sense, My GOD! What a CONCEPT!! ;-O

Somebody call Paul Teutel Sr. and Jr. and get their opinions on this
mess too, while we're at it! :-P I know Paul Sr. is in town, he
just Grand Marshaled the Love Ride. If you want abuse while building
a bike, he's the Go-To Guy to get it from...

{Satire Alert Off}

If that bearing shaft can't go anywhere, it should not be a problem.
And if he is bushing the hole evenly he isn't changing the steering
geometry at all - the hole is in the exact same place, it's just too
large.

Now if the triple tree and forks combination isn't the right
geometry for the bike, I can see a problem with that, but the bushing
for the steering shaft would not have anything to do with that. It's
just holding the shaft in the right place.

And in conclusion: Why is Common Sense so uncommon?

-- Bruce --

Big gold star, yet again, Bruce.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On 16 Nov 2005 08:35:02 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article ovIef.336421$084.211281@attbi_s22, JWho says...

On average, what does a shop charge for an hourly rate, or do they just
charge per job?

It varies. Basically you have to ask around. Make up a
simple hand sketch (no cad program needed) of what you
want. Put real dimensions on it, and put tolerances
on it. The lengths are going to be +/- 0.010 or so,
but the diameter will be +/- 0.001 or so, and be sure
you've chosen it so it will work if arrives just at
the tolerance limits.

If you show up with real numbers like that you may well
get a cheaper rate. But ask around and see what shops
are in the area.

Jim

And bring a dozen donuts when you go. Not the cheapies..but the kind
from a bakery. The discount you get may surprise you.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article ovIef.336421$084.211281@attbi_s22, JWho says...

On average, what does a shop charge for an hourly rate, or do they just
charge per job?

It varies. Basically you have to ask around. Make up a
simple hand sketch (no cad program needed) of what you
want. Put real dimensions on it, and put tolerances
on it. The lengths are going to be +/- 0.010 or so,
but the diameter will be +/- 0.001 or so, and be sure
you've chosen it so it will work if arrives just at
the tolerance limits.

If you show up with real numbers like that you may well
get a cheaper rate. But ask around and see what shops
are in the area.

Jim

Hi. Thank you for the information. I hope I don't call too many places
that require a minimum 1,000 quantity or something like that. :-)

Thanks.

This might be a good test of the online service whose name escapes me at the
moment...

Emmo (who changed the fork lengths and rear suspension a half dozen times
when I was chopping my '65 Triumph back in the 70's)

"JWho" wrote in message
newsUMef.336716$084.78141@attbi_s22...

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article ovIef.336421$084.211281@attbi_s22, JWho says...

On average, what does a shop charge for an hourly rate, or do they just
charge per job?

It varies. Basically you have to ask around. Make up a
simple hand sketch (no cad program needed) of what you
want. Put real dimensions on it, and put tolerances
on it. The lengths are going to be +/- 0.010 or so,
but the diameter will be +/- 0.001 or so, and be sure
you've chosen it so it will work if arrives just at
the tolerance limits.

If you show up with real numbers like that you may well
get a cheaper rate. But ask around and see what shops
are in the area.

Jim

Hi. Thank you for the information. I hope I don't call too many places
that require a minimum 1,000 quantity or something like that. :-)

Thanks.

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:04:27 GMT, "JWho" wrote:

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
.. .

{Satire Alert for the Humor Impaired...}

If I'm following this whole mess correctly through all the Angels
doing a Rockettes Dance Line on the head of a pin... ;-)

JWho is shimming where the steering bearing shaft goes through the
top and bottom plates of the triple tree, right?

I think it's just th' top triple tree if I'm readin' him correctly.

And he said something about their being nuts on the top and bottom
of each plate where he needs to shim the hole, right?

Those nuts do more than just secure th' top triple tree in place.
More importantly, they are what sets and maintains pre-load on th'
steering head bearings. Correct pre-load is kinda, sorta important.

So both the shims would be held 100% captive by the nuts on top and
bottom, and washers on the sides toward the bearings, right?

Captive as in up and down (vertical play) correct. However as bearing
pre-load changes with wear, pivitol forces can/will start hammerin' on
th' shimstock. Said shimstock will wear in an oval manner, increasing
as th' shimstock is further beaten as more play occurs. There's a
video clip he http://tinyurl.com/dnqqy Scroll down to "Bad
tank-slapping accident at Isle of Mann! (I hope this guy was ok)"

So why the (heck) can't JWho just use a simple ring of .030
stainless shim stock (or the thickness needed) cut to the right length
and Loctite'd into place? Someone please tell me, I want to know!

He can. Nobody said he couldn't far as I know. I sure as hell
wouldn't make one with hand tools tho. But that's all after th' fact
of th' point I was attempting to make. Check th' damned geometry
*before* ya even bother futzin' with it any further. What's wrong
with knowing that what you're attempting to customize will be within
reasonable specs? Especially on a murdersickle .

Common sense, My GOD! What a CONCEPT!! ;-O

Yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about. Then again, ain't my ass if he
chooses not to use any. Just hate to see a kid get hurt for no good
reason... other than bein' too lazy to do a little math. Oh well.

{Satire Alert Off}

If that bearing shaft can't go anywhere, it should not be a problem.

Yeah, but it *can* move around. It can, and will pivot inside that
shim with wear or improper pre-load.

And if he is bushing the hole evenly he isn't changing the steering
geometry at all - the hole is in the exact same place, it's just too
large.

Th' steering stem hole on his replacement is not in th' same place,
relative to th' fork tube holes, as th' original. I can see it from
th' pics. That can considerably exacerbate stresses on th' shim.
I've seen this **** happen on altered motorcycles before. There's a
reason his insurance co. won't touch his bike if he informs them of
this modification.

Now if the triple tree and forks combination isn't the right
geometry for the bike, I can see a problem with that, but the bushing
for the steering shaft would not have anything to do with that. It's
just holding the shaft in the right place.

That bushing will be th' weak link after bearings wear any measurable
amount. Those steering neck bearings take a hell of a pounding.
There's a lot of stress there. You gonna trust yer ass to it?

And in conclusion: Why is Common Sense so uncommon?

Can't answer that, but it surely is. I think it has somethin' to do
with laziness, but can't prove it.

Snarl

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:04:27 GMT, "JWho" wrote:

Hi. Actually, it is just the top clamp, not both the top and bottom. I
know of one person who has 1,000 miles using just .025 brass shim stock to
take up the gap.

I was assuming this was for a street bike application, is it for
off-road? 1,000 miles isn't anything for street bike testing. Brass
huh? Sheesh.

There are several other people who have done similar, or
had a machine shop to install a bushing/sleeve/tube.

Seems like that's yer answer right there. Have one of those machine
shops who've already done this make yours.

NO ONE who has died has reported of a failure. :-)

Heh, heh.

I might've missed it, but what's th' reason for this modification
again?

Snarl

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 20:49:31 GMT, "Emmo" wrote:

This might be a good test of the online service whose name escapes me at the
moment...

You mean this: http://www.emachineshop.com/

Emmo (who changed the fork lengths and rear suspension a half dozen times
when I was chopping my '65 Triumph back in the 70's)

Might as well do somethin' since they rarely actually ran for any
length of time ; ) And yeah, I've built and ridden a custom bike er
two in th' past 40 years m'self. Still do.

Snarl

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:04:27 GMT, "JWho" wrote:

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
.. .

{Satire Alert for the Humor Impaired...}

If I'm following this whole mess correctly through all the Angels
doing a Rockettes Dance Line on the head of a pin... ;-)

JWho is shimming where the steering bearing shaft goes through the
top and bottom plates of the triple tree, right?

I think it's just th' top triple tree if I'm readin' him correctly.

Yes, it is just the upper clamp.



And he said something about their being nuts on the top and bottom
of each plate where he needs to shim the hole, right?

Those nuts do more than just secure th' top triple tree in place.
More importantly, they are what sets and maintains pre-load on th'
steering head bearings. Correct pre-load is kinda, sorta important.

So both the shims would be held 100% captive by the nuts on top and
bottom, and washers on the sides toward the bearings, right?

Captive as in up and down (vertical play) correct. However as bearing
pre-load changes with wear, pivitol forces can/will start hammerin' on
th' shimstock. Said shimstock will wear in an oval manner, increasing
as th' shimstock is further beaten as more play occurs. There's a
video clip he http://tinyurl.com/dnqqy Scroll down to "Bad
tank-slapping accident at Isle of Mann! (I hope this guy was ok)"

The OEM stem and clamps are aluminum, so I doubt stainless steel is going to
become worn in such a setting.






So why the (heck) can't JWho just use a simple ring of .030
stainless shim stock (or the thickness needed) cut to the right length
and Loctite'd into place? Someone please tell me, I want to know!

He can. Nobody said he couldn't far as I know. I sure as hell
wouldn't make one with hand tools tho. But that's all after th' fact
of th' point I was attempting to make. Check th' damned geometry
*before* ya even bother futzin' with it any further. What's wrong
with knowing that what you're attempting to customize will be within
reasonable specs? Especially on a murdersickle .

I think I already mentioned that I agreed with everyone and am not going to
try to make a tube/sleeve/buhing by hand. If several other people already
have done it, doesn't it make sense that it would be OK?




Common sense, My GOD! What a CONCEPT!! ;-O

Yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about. Then again, ain't my ass if he
chooses not to use any. Just hate to see a kid get hurt for no good
reason... other than bein' too lazy to do a little math. Oh well.

{Satire Alert Off}

If that bearing shaft can't go anywhere, it should not be a problem.

Yeah, but it *can* move around. It can, and will pivot inside that
shim with wear or improper pre-load.

And if he is bushing the hole evenly he isn't changing the steering
geometry at all - the hole is in the exact same place, it's just too
large.

Th' steering stem hole on his replacement is not in th' same place,
relative to th' fork tube holes, as th' original. I can see it from
th' pics. That can considerably exacerbate stresses on th' shim.
I've seen this **** happen on altered motorcycles before. There's a
reason his insurance co. won't touch his bike if he informs them of
this modification.

The steering stem hole IS in the same place. I think you are looking at the
"representative sample" pictures. Those were to just show a general idea of
the concept. I am replacing the lower clamp and stem, but using the same
upper and lower bearings, as that is what the original and replacement both
use.



Now if the triple tree and forks combination isn't the right
geometry for the bike, I can see a problem with that, but the bushing
for the steering shaft would not have anything to do with that. It's
just holding the shaft in the right place.

That bushing will be th' weak link after bearings wear any measurable
amount. Those steering neck bearings take a hell of a pounding.
There's a lot of stress there. You gonna trust yer ass to it?

....and the rest of me too. :-)



And in conclusion: Why is Common Sense so uncommon?

Can't answer that, but it surely is. I think it has somethin' to do
with laziness, but can't prove it.

Snarl

I am just repeating what several others have done, so it is not like I am
doing something all new and untested.

As far as the bike it is on, here's a hint if you are a motorcyclist. I
hope to travel 24 mph on it. Thanks for your concern on the rake, trail,
clamp offset and such. If I was doing something new and revolutionary, I
would be all over it, but the swap has been done for years, so it is not a
concern to me.

Thanks!

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:04:27 GMT, "JWho" wrote:

Hi. Actually, it is just the top clamp, not both the top and bottom. I
know of one person who has 1,000 miles using just .025 brass shim stock
to
take up the gap.

I was assuming this was for a street bike application, is it for
off-road? 1,000 miles isn't anything for street bike testing. Brass
huh? Sheesh.

If brass was good for 1,000, and the original was aluminum, then I am
thinking proper fitting stainless steel should last.





There are several other people who have done similar, or
had a machine shop to install a bushing/sleeve/tube.

Seems like that's yer answer right there. Have one of those machine
shops who've already done this make yours.

It may very well come to that.



NO ONE who has died has reported of a failure. :-)

Heh, heh.

I might've missed it, but what's th' reason for this modification
again?

Snarl


It is to get more modern forks.

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 01:30:04 GMT, "JWho" wrote:

As far as the bike it is on, here's a hint if you are a motorcyclist. I
hope to travel 24 mph on it.

And that's what I get for making assumptions, Doh!

Thanks for your concern on the rake, trail, clamp offset and such.

Yeah, I got funny that way after m' 50th b-day for some reason g.

If I was doing something new and revolutionary, I
would be all over it, but the swap has been done for years, so it is not a
concern to me.

Post all of th' measurements, including tolerances, in here and I'm
sure one of us could turn that puppy for ya, m'self included.

This thread is a good example why including more info than less is a
good idea when one is asking questions.

Snarl

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 01:30:04 GMT, "JWho" wrote:

As far as the bike it is on, here's a hint if you are a motorcyclist. I
hope to travel 24 mph on it.

And that's what I get for making assumptions, Doh!

Thanks for your concern on the rake, trail, clamp offset and such.

Yeah, I got funny that way after m' 50th b-day for some reason g.

If I was doing something new and revolutionary, I
would be all over it, but the swap has been done for years, so it is not
a
concern to me.

Post all of th' measurements, including tolerances, in here and I'm
sure one of us could turn that puppy for ya, m'self included.

This thread is a good example why including more info than less is a
good idea when one is asking questions.

Snarl


OK, just for you, :-) I checked on something, but want to be sure. Is
"castor" degrees the same as rake degrees?

Thanks.

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:31:38 GMT, "JWho" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 01:30:04 GMT, "JWho" wrote:

As far as the bike it is on, here's a hint if you are a motorcyclist. I
hope to travel 24 mph on it.

And that's what I get for making assumptions, Doh!

Thanks for your concern on the rake, trail, clamp offset and such.

Yeah, I got funny that way after m' 50th b-day for some reason g.

If I was doing something new and revolutionary, I
would be all over it, but the swap has been done for years, so it is not
a
concern to me.

Post all of th' measurements, including tolerances, in here and I'm
sure one of us could turn that puppy for ya, m'self included.

This thread is a good example why including more info than less is a
good idea when one is asking questions.

OK, just for you, :-) I checked on something, but want to be sure. Is
"castor" degrees the same as rake degrees?

Nope. Rake is th' number of degrees as measured between th' angle
between th' steering neck (on yer bike) to a vertical line down
through th' axle. An example of a zero rake application would be a
shopping cart wheel.

Thanks.

Your welcome ; )

Snarl

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:31:38 GMT, "JWho" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 01:30:04 GMT, "JWho" wrote:

As far as the bike it is on, here's a hint if you are a motorcyclist.
I
hope to travel 24 mph on it.

And that's what I get for making assumptions, Doh!

Thanks for your concern on the rake, trail, clamp offset and such.

Yeah, I got funny that way after m' 50th b-day for some reason g.

If I was doing something new and revolutionary, I
would be all over it, but the swap has been done for years, so it is
not
a
concern to me.

Post all of th' measurements, including tolerances, in here and I'm
sure one of us could turn that puppy for ya, m'self included.

This thread is a good example why including more info than less is a
good idea when one is asking questions.

OK, just for you, :-) I checked on something, but want to be sure. Is
"castor" degrees the same as rake degrees?

Nope. Rake is th' number of degrees as measured between th' angle
between th' steering neck (on yer bike) to a vertical line down
through th' axle. An example of a zero rake application would be a
shopping cart wheel.

Thanks.

Your welcome ; )

Snarl


So what's castor?

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:15:46 GMT, "JWho" wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:31:38 GMT, "JWho" wrote:

schnipp

OK, just for you, :-) I checked on something, but want to be sure. Is
"castor" degrees the same as rake degrees?

Nope. Rake is th' number of degrees as measured between th' angle
between th' steering neck (on yer bike) to a vertical line down
through th' axle. An example of a zero rake application would be a
shopping cart wheel.

Thanks.

Your welcome ; )

So what's castor?

****, I read that as *camber* for some reason. Both (camber and
castor) are typically automotive terms that I don't usually deal with.
But yes, rake and castor are measured in a similar manner but on
different vehicles.

So if you talk rake to an automotive guy, he'll give you th' same
blank stare as a motorcycle frame guy when asked about castor g.

Snarl