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| Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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Automotive rust repair
This is probably a dumb question, but can I use either aluminum or
copper flashing materials to repair the rust cancer in my 1990 Bronco. I know that I can tack steel panels to the existing steel, but the steel sheet is tough to get while aluminum and copper flashing is common? I'm thinking about buying an inert gas wire fed welder for this purpose, since it is much cheaper than a body shop restoration, but can it tack dissimilar metals like aluminum and copper to steel, or should I seek out a dealer who can supply me with, say, 16-gauge steel stock? My second question is do I need an "English Wheel" to curve the stock material to fit, or is their a simplier, less costly method? After all, this is a one-time restoration job. Why aren't there more books available for auto body restoration? Thanks guys. Harry C. |
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#3
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Here is the ass end of a Bronco I had a few years ago
http://www.motherearthrecycling.net/rust/rust.htm The body looked good but when I went to hook up my boat trailer I discovered the above mess. I did weld in a rear frame and drove the thing for another year or 2 before trading to the local Monroe Muffler guy to put springs in my wifes car. The frame held up fine but I wonder every time I see it going down the road. Its been 4 years since it was welded, the rear bumper still looks even. wrote in message oups.com... This is probably a dumb question, but can I use either aluminum or copper flashing materials to repair the rust cancer in my 1990 Bronco. I know that I can tack steel panels to the existing steel, but the steel sheet is tough to get while aluminum and copper flashing is common? I'm thinking about buying an inert gas wire fed welder for this purpose, since it is much cheaper than a body shop restoration, but can it tack dissimilar metals like aluminum and copper to steel, or should I seek out a dealer who can supply me with, say, 16-gauge steel stock? My second question is do I need an "English Wheel" to curve the stock material to fit, or is their a simplier, less costly method? After all, this is a one-time restoration job. Why aren't there more books available for auto body restoration? Thanks guys. Harry C. |
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wrote in message oups.com... This is probably a dumb question, but can I use either aluminum or copper flashing materials to repair the rust cancer in my 1990 Bronco. I know that I can tack steel panels to the existing steel, but the steel sheet is tough to get while aluminum and copper flashing is common? I'm thinking about buying an inert gas wire fed welder for this purpose, since it is much cheaper than a body shop restoration, but can it tack dissimilar metals like aluminum and copper to steel, or should I seek out a dealer who can supply me with, say, 16-gauge steel stock? My second question is do I need an "English Wheel" to curve the stock material to fit, or is their a simplier, less costly method? After all, this is a one-time restoration job. Why aren't there more books available for auto body restoration? Thanks guys. Harry C. Harry, try a local factory that works with sheet metal. Alot of times their scraps are large enough to use as patches. You would be surprised what a dozen donuts can get you sometimes. good luck, walt |
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#5
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On 12 Sep 2005 16:50:51 -0700, wrote:
This is probably a dumb question, but can I use either aluminum or copper flashing materials to repair the rust cancer in my 1990 Bronco. I know that I can tack steel panels to the existing steel, but the steel sheet is tough to get while aluminum and copper flashing is common? I'm thinking about buying an inert gas wire fed welder for this purpose, since it is much cheaper than a body shop restoration, but can it tack dissimilar metals like aluminum and copper to steel, or should I seek out a dealer who can supply me with, say, 16-gauge steel stock? My second question is do I need an "English Wheel" to curve the stock material to fit, or is their a simplier, less costly method? After all, this is a one-time restoration job. Why aren't there more books available for auto body restoration? Thanks guys. Harry C. Buy the body parts (panels) you need and MIG 'em in. Check out http://www.rustrepair.com/ http://www.certifit.com/ Get print catalogs from these guys. It's a lot easier to figure out what you need when looking at pictures. Check a dealer too! If they have what you want, it may only be slightly more $$$ than from the above sources, and stuff like hoods are a lot more likely to fit without a fight. You can make smaller patches with sheet steel. Larger autoparts stores have it, at least they do around Minneapolis. I've even used the skin off an old hot water heater. (Bondo is your friend!) 16 gage is pretty heavy for autobody. 22 or 24 gage is more typical. Get a pneumatic punch 'n flange tool like this: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=41696 You punch one part, flange the other (one of these is part of the car), fit 'em up, tack 'em or shoot a few sheetmetal screws, fill the holes with the MIG. Very little grinding needed. Butter the joint with Bondo, sand, and you're ready for primer. You DO have air, right? Ya gotta have air and a DA sander to even think about bodywork. Check out my old '76 Blazer at http://users.goldengate.net/~dforeman/BYBS/ There wasn't much original body metal left on that truck. It was 10 years old when I got it, and I drove it in salty MN for 13 years. |
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#6
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If you cruise around a few body shops, you will likely be able to pick up a
couple of hoods or other discarded body parts. I kept an old hood in the corner of my shop and cut pieces off of it for a couple of years. |
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wrote in message oups.com... This is probably a dumb question, but can I use either aluminum or copper flashing materials to repair the rust cancer in my 1990 Bronco. I know that I can tack steel panels to the existing steel, but the steel sheet is tough to get while aluminum and copper flashing is common? I'm thinking about buying an inert gas wire fed welder for this purpose, since it is much cheaper than a body shop restoration, but can it tack dissimilar metals like aluminum and copper to steel, or should I seek out a dealer who can supply me with, say, 16-gauge steel stock? My second question is do I need an "English Wheel" to curve the stock material to fit, or is their a simplier, less costly method? After all, this is a one-time restoration job. Why aren't there more books available for auto body restoration? Thanks guys. Harry C. Hi Harry, If you want to have a go at making the panels yourself, have a look at http://allshops.org/ Down the page a bit, you will see a panel on the right entitled metalshaping 101, have a look in there, better than a book. The associated yahoo group metalshapers is a good spot to ask as well, you might find you have someone into metalshaping just around the corner who would help you learn how to do this. regards, John |
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#8
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skrev i en meddelelse oups.com... This is probably a dumb question, but can I use either aluminum or copper flashing materials to repair the rust cancer in my 1990 Bronco. I know that I can tack steel panels to the existing steel, but the steel sheet is tough to get while aluminum and copper flashing is common? I'm thinking about buying an inert gas wire fed welder for this purpose, since it is much cheaper than a body shop restoration, but can it tack dissimilar metals like aluminum and copper to steel, or should I seek out a dealer who can supply me with, say, 16-gauge steel stock? My second question is do I need an "English Wheel" to curve the stock material to fit, or is their a simplier, less costly method? After all, this is a one-time restoration job. Why aren't there more books available for auto body restoration? I dont know about the US cars, but you can get replacement parts for most of the panel work for the cars we drive over here in europe.. This should give you an idea of what I am trying to explain: Befo http://hem.passagen.se/jodu/bilder/saab/jodu/saab7.jpg After: http://hem.passagen.se/jodu/bilder/saab/jodu/saab22.jpg Punch, Flange, MIG, Bondo, Sand and Paint.. Check with the local body shops Also: I dont know if you are required to have the car inspected for safety etc. ( MOT test in the UK ) on a regular basis, but over here the inspectors dont look too kindly at repairs done on load bearing parts ( they want them replaced instead ) /peter |
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#10
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:11:55 -0500, "*" wrote:
wrote in article s.com... This is probably a dumb question, but can I use either aluminum or copper flashing materials to repair the rust cancer in my 1990 Bronco. I know that I can tack steel panels to the existing steel, but the steel sheet is tough to get while aluminum and copper flashing is common? I'm thinking about buying an inert gas wire fed welder for this purpose, since it is much cheaper than a body shop restoration, but can it tack dissimilar metals like aluminum and copper to steel, or should I seek out a dealer who can supply me with, say, 16-gauge steel stock? My second question is do I need an "English Wheel" to curve the stock material to fit, or is their a simplier, less costly method? After all, this is a one-time restoration job. Why aren't there more books available for auto body restoration? If you choose to use anything other than same-guage steel, carefully fitted and welded, you are patching, cobbling, jury-rigging, etc.......NOT restoring.......... .......and, true restoration books will be a waste of your money and time. A book I found useful was: Paint & Body Handbook, Don Taylor & Larry Hofer, HP books. Available from Amazon, $14.95. It addresses most of the tools, techniques and materials useful for body repair, including plastic body filler AKA Bondo. Also prepping, painting, fitting panels, fiberglass, and welding. There is a chapter specifically devoted to rust repair. Some would not regard rust work, even pretty good rust work, as "restoration". So call it repair. Bondo, used properly, is very useful stuff. A patch starting with any welded-in metal is far better than stuffing a T-shirt in the hole and covering it with Bondo. A good rust repair ( or "patch" if you like), even if not of restoration purity, can look good and last a decade in daily use. |
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wrote in message oups.com... This is probably a dumb question, but can I use either aluminum or copper flashing materials to repair the rust cancer in my 1990 Bronco. With gas at $3.00 a gallon and you have a rust bucket why are you even bothering to fix this car? Seems to me it is going to be more work than you got value. -- Roger Shoaf If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, what does this say about the Congress? |
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#12
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:54:51 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote: With gas at $3.00 a gallon and you have a rust bucket why are you even bothering to fix this car? Seems to me it is going to be more work than you got value. It might also be added value well worth the effort, particularly if the capability of a Bronco (vs that of a small sedan) is useful. The price of fuel may be a minor consideration. New trucks get better mileage, but not that much better. New trucks are expensive. Repairs to get another few years or 50K to 100K more miles may be a very cost-effective course. Value is in minimizing cost of acceptable transport including fuel, maintenance and insurance. Insurance cost is significantly higher on new vehicles, particularly if the bank has an interest to protect --at your expense, of course. A little skilled (learn while doing, buy tools as needed) labor can add and maintain a lot of value. I put five kids thru University to baccalaureate level with money I did not send to Detroit, Japan, bank interest or insurance companies beyond more-than-ample PL & PD for 20 years. All of us had reliable and presentable rides during that time. I don't do rust work anymore, but I gotta say it was well worth my while when I did. |
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#13
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Don Foreman wrote in article ... Some would not regard rust work, even pretty good rust work, as "restoration". So call it repair. Bondo, used properly, is very useful stuff. A patch starting with any welded-in metal is far better than stuffing a T-shirt in the hole and covering it with Bondo. Some of the true restorations I have seen use absolutely no body filler - not even lead. Properly done and ground, a welded-in panel can be made to look original, like a solid piece of sheet metal - even before paint is applied..... THAT is what I consider "restoration".....making it as good as, if not better than original. A good rust repair ( or "patch" if you like), even if not of restoration purity, can look good and last a decade in daily use. Yes, it can.....and I don't mind calling it "rust repair.".....but, "restoration" it is NOT. |
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#14
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"Don Foreman" wrote in message ... On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:54:51 -0700, "Roger Shoaf" wrote: With gas at $3.00 a gallon and you have a rust bucket why are you even bothering to fix this car? Seems to me it is going to be more work than you got value. It might also be added value well worth the effort, particularly if the capability of a Bronco (vs that of a small sedan) is useful. The price of fuel may be a minor consideration. New trucks get better mileage, but not that much better. New trucks are expensive. Repairs to get another few years or 50K to 100K more miles may be a very cost-effective course. Value is in minimizing cost of acceptable transport including fuel, maintenance and insurance. Insurance cost is significantly higher on new vehicles, particularly if the bank has an interest to protect --at your expense, of course. A little skilled (learn while doing, buy tools as needed) labor can add and maintain a lot of value. I put five kids thru University to baccalaureate level with money I did not send to Detroit, Japan, bank interest or insurance companies beyond more-than-ample PL & PD for 20 years. All of us had reliable and presentable rides during that time. I don't do rust work anymore, but I gotta say it was well worth my while when I did. I'm with you on not sending money to Detroit etc. My current inventory of cars are an 83 MBZ an 82 Ford PU and 94 Taurus. I really don't have much of a perspective on cancer rust repair however. In CA when we got a rust bucket it was considered a poor candidate for repair as there are a lot of cheap intact cars to be had. The rusters always seemed to have a lot of other grief due to the corrosion like broken bolts when you went to change a fan belt and lots of electrical gremlins also. -- Roger Shoaf If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, what does this say about the Congress? |
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#15
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You can get all your materials online for way less money than you will
pay at other places. Call us at 1-800-548-4321 or by going to www.paintworldinc.com for the sandpaper, primer, custom matched touch-up paint ect. Even if you don't purchase anything we will give you expert advice for the best price around....FREE  . Give us acall, you will be happy you did. Mike Gallagher www.paintworldinc.com 1-800-548-4321 Automotive Touch-up Paint and Detailing Products |
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#16
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:53:48 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote: I'm with you on not sending money to Detroit etc. My current inventory of cars are an 83 MBZ an 82 Ford PU and 94 Taurus. I really don't have much of a perspective on cancer rust repair however. In CA when we got a rust bucket it was considered a poor candidate for repair as there are a lot of cheap intact cars to be had. The rusters always seemed to have a lot of other grief due to the corrosion like broken bolts when you went to change a fan belt and lots of electrical gremlins also. MN uses salt on the roads, particularly in metro areas. Cars rust, though they're better than they used to be. It wasn't hard to find cars with fairly low mileage (80K) in good mech condx but ugly as sin so quite cheap. Most people buy appearance. "California cars" go for a premium here. I found (did not buy) one Blazer that I traced the history of. It had sold in Chicago for $800, came up here, got a quick 'n dirty paint job (not even washed before painting), was on the lot for $3500. It was a jewel: one broken spring concealed with bodyputty and paint, front diffy disconnected -- because it was different ratio than the rear one. ("Doesn't matter, ya only use 4WD in snow, right?") |
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MikeGallagher@xxxxxxxxxxxwrote in article .com... You can get all your materials online for way less money than you will pay at other places. Ah yes!! Just where I was hoping this discussion on quality restoration would lead....... ........to somebody SPAMMING cheap, mail order crap......... Do you carry the screen that you stuff into the hole to hold the body filler???? |
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:56:11 -0500, * wrote:
Just where I was hoping this discussion on quality restoration would lead....... .......to somebody SPAMMING cheap, mail order crap......... Figures. If you want -quality- restoration supplies, check out the Eastwood company. They don't spam, they're not cheap, but they're not cheap. Do you carry the screen that you stuff into the hole to hold the body filler???? I bet he's got _both_ types. |
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#19
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I can beat your 3M prices at my local NAPA store......it's in-stock for purchase NOW.....I don't have to pay shipping.......and I don't have to wait for it....... For example, I buy the gold sanding discs for 45 cents each - which would be $2.25 for a five-pack compared to your $2.99 plus shipping, plus waiting, etc. |
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#20
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Dave Hinz wrote in article ... On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:56:11 -0500, * wrote: Just where I was hoping this discussion on quality restoration would lead....... .......to somebody SPAMMING cheap, mail order crap......... Figures. If you want -quality- restoration supplies, check out the Eastwood company. They don't spam, they're not cheap, but they're not cheap. I would certainly agree that most of the Eastwood stuff is, indeed, high quality.....but, it is also awfully pricey. If one checks around with various automotive and industrial suppliers, it is often possible to find the exact same thing as Eastwood for a little less money. In many cases, I believe I have actually found the companies who sell to Eastwood. On the other hand, I've also seen some specialty suppliers peddling Eastwood stuff. You could even buy Eastwood from Sears at one point. |
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#21
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:14:07 -0500, * wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote in article ... If you want -quality- restoration supplies, check out the Eastwood company. They don't spam, they're not cheap, but they're not cheap. I would certainly agree that most of the Eastwood stuff is, indeed, high quality.....but, it is also awfully pricey. Oh, no objection here. But sometimes it's the only place you can find things, and/or the most convenient. If one checks around with various automotive and industrial suppliers, it is often possible to find the exact same thing as Eastwood for a little less money. True. But, again, time is worth something. If it takes me 3 hours to save 3 bucks, I'd rather spend the extra at Eastwood. On the other hand, I've also seen some specialty suppliers peddling Eastwood stuff. You could even buy Eastwood from Sears at one point. Didn't know that. But, for lead bodywork paddles and such, they're a great source for the paddles and files - I sourced the tallow and lead locally. |
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