Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #141   Report Post  
Old July 22nd 03, 06:14 PM
jim rozen
 
Posts: n/a
Default An apology

In article , Gunner says...

The economy started into the ****ter in the last quarter of the
Clinton administration, and thats easily proven.


No, you're not getting it.

The only time in god knows how long that the US has
run a budget suplus was during *his* years. End of
story. I think we need to go back to wilson or
something to see that again.

You can say "it's OK for the US to run a deficit spending govenment"

Or you can say, "hey, what about carter, carter was in there, it
wasn't just republicans,"

Or you can say all kinds of things. But the data on the
graph were pretty unequivocal. Clinton showed up, the
deficit went away. And don't go trying to say it the
republicans that set it up for him, because then carter
would have seen the same effect.

Voters don't care any about the fancy-pants stuff. Or about
hundred dollar tax rebates. If they're out of work, they're
gonna vote the man out of office. Bank on that, I would say.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================


  #142   Report Post  
Old July 23rd 03, 01:32 AM
Desert Traveler
 
Posts: n/a
Default 8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree-UPDATE

Just flew in from LA, and boy, are my arms tired!

Just got back from five days in LA at the Convention Center, Calmart, et al.
Watched the evening news as this tragedy unfolded and progressed. Just a
sad accident, all in all.

But, as with everything, something new is growing out of the sadness. Two
youths, one from Poway, and one from Pacoima have announced they will be
forming a company that will provide surrogate drivers for those over 65 who
need to take a driving test.

Fee is $500, and you have to sign the usual disclaimer. Last I heard, they
were getting thousands of applicants, and getting ready to go public.

Steve


  #143   Report Post  
Old July 23rd 03, 02:22 AM
Lennie the Lurker
 
Posts: n/a
Default An apology

"Mark Winlund" wrote in message ...

I find Lennie's posts quite entertaining..... I actually look for them. I
have built a quite specific mental picture of this fellow....


From a conservative viewpoint as is shared by you and all other
assholes, you have formed a picture that is entirely wrong, but you
will defend your unknowing assessment to your death.

I have heard, "God don't make no trash", but in gunners case, that
can't be right. No redeeming virtues to that subhuman. the GWeeB is
proof positive that God *does* make trash. Second only to gummer.
gummer has no values, and even less worth.
  #144   Report Post  
Old July 23rd 03, 04:02 AM
Ken Davey
 
Posts: n/a
Default An apology

Lennie the lunchbucket
. com...
"Mark Winlund" wrote in message

...

I find Lennie's posts quite entertaining..... I actually look for them.

I
have built a quite specific mental picture of this fellow....


From a conservative viewpoint as is shared by you and all other
assholes, you have formed a picture that is entirely wrong, but you
will defend your unknowing assessment to your death.

I have heard, "God don't make no trash", but in gunners case, that
can't be right. No redeeming virtues to that subhuman. the GWeeB is
proof positive that God *does* make trash. Second only to gummer.
gummer has no values, and even less worth.


Once again Lennie lowers the bar!
Well done Lennie!

Ken (tongue firmly in cheek)


  #146   Report Post  
Old July 23rd 03, 05:19 AM
John Flanagan
 
Posts: n/a
Default 8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree (what a moron)

On 22 Jul 2003 07:46:28 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Traditionally "omnipotent" means that God is all powerful, not that
everything is a result of His will specifically. Scripture explicitly
states that many things are not His will. Things contrary to His will
are things He had to allow for "free will" or "choice" to have any
real meaning. If people could only choose His will then what meaning
would "choice" have?


Let me get this straight, god decides certain things should
be totally random, and left to chance?


No, I don't think I said that. Nothing physical is random, it only
appears to be to us, being we are finite and unable to discern why
they happen. I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you saying that
choice introduces randomness to the universe?

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.
  #147   Report Post  
Old July 23rd 03, 05:26 AM
John Flanagan
 
Posts: n/a
Default 8 Murdered, 45 critically injured in LA Spree (what a moron)

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:13:26 -0700, "Ken Davey"
wrote:


"John Flanagan" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:18:00 -0500, "Tim Williams"
wrote:

"John Flanagan" wrote in message
...
??? If there is no God then *everything* is predetermined. There is
no such thing as free will choice.

The condition was that God didn't exist. If He does exist then you
can't say all things are God's will since there is therefore free
choice, and the choices made may be against his will.

You must be assuming God gives us free will; thus without a God, there
is no free will and all is predetermined.


You are exactly right :^). If there is only material then you are
only what the atoms in your body make you. There is no free will
there, merely the illusion of it. Free will must be something beyond
the physical, in fact it must be infinite or omnipotent for free will
to be in it's fullest, purest form. So the idea is free will comes
from God within us, for those who have God in them. As the Apostle
Peter said, those who have not God are like unreasoning animals, by
which I believe he meant they do not possess free will but are guided
by animal instinct, not moral choice.

John

Good grief! Is this what 'believers' think is going on?
No wonder I detest them all.


Really now, please explain to me how free will can come out of the
material world alone? If all there is is the material then everything
that will ever be, including whatever you "choose" to have for lunch
tomorrow, was predetermined at the instant of the big bang. Since all
you are is the chemical makeup of your body. Your body and your
experience, which was also predetermined, decides what you will
decide. Cause and effect goes all the way back to the big band and is
completely predictable, if you could know the complete state of the
material universe at that instant.

It also goes back to the axiom that nothing can create something equal
to or greater than itself. Materialism cannot create anything greater
than a robot. Albeit a very fancy and complex one perhaps, but
nevertheless a robot (at best) :^).

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.
  #148   Report Post  
Old July 23rd 03, 05:37 AM
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default An apology

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:57:46 -0700, "Mark Winlund"
wrote:


"Lennie the Lurker" wrote in message
. com...
"Mark Winlund" wrote in message

...

I find Lennie's posts quite entertaining..... I actually look for them.

I
have built a quite specific mental picture of this fellow....


From a conservative viewpoint as is shared by you and all other
assholes, you have formed a picture that is entirely wrong, but you
will defend your unknowing assessment to your death.

I have heard, "God don't make no trash", but in gunners case, that
can't be right. No redeeming virtues to that subhuman. the GWeeB is
proof positive that God *does* make trash. Second only to gummer.
gummer has no values, and even less worth.




See? I told you so.... comes through every time!

Gunner, isn't it nice to know that you are considered by Lennie the Luddite
to be presidential material?

Mark

If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve. See the
gentleman in the corner if you wish to make a large cash donation.
G

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli
  #149   Report Post  
Old July 23rd 03, 05:45 AM
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default An apology

On 22 Jul 2003 10:14:14 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

The economy started into the ****ter in the last quarter of the
Clinton administration, and thats easily proven.


No, you're not getting it.

The only time in god knows how long that the US has
run a budget suplus was during *his* years. End of
story. I think we need to go back to wilson or
something to see that again.

You can say "it's OK for the US to run a deficit spending govenment"

Or you can say, "hey, what about carter, carter was in there, it
wasn't just republicans,"

Or you can say all kinds of things. But the data on the
graph were pretty unequivocal. Clinton showed up, the
deficit went away. And don't go trying to say it the
republicans that set it up for him, because then carter
would have seen the same effect.


Actually it was the end result of Trickle Down. The WSJ and economists
did quite a bit of study on the matter. Carter didn't have Reaganomics
running interference for him.

Now Jim, would you care to indicate where that surplus went ? After all
there wasn't one at the end of his administration....unless you care to
use CBO numbers..and those were seriously cooked as even the Left
admits.



Voters don't care any about the fancy-pants stuff. Or about
hundred dollar tax rebates. If they're out of work, they're
gonna vote the man out of office. Bank on that, I would say.

Jim

================================================= =
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
================================================= =


Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli
  #150   Report Post  
Old July 23rd 03, 05:53 AM
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default An apology

On 22 Jul 2003 10:14:14 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:


Voters don't care any about the fancy-pants stuff. Or about
hundred dollar tax rebates. If they're out of work, they're
gonna vote the man out of office. Bank on that, I would say.

Jim


Which reminds me. You may or may not have heard about this yet..but its
a clear cut case of the Dems trying to further their political ambitions
and using the pain of the people to do it. A transcript will be
forthcoming, but it was quite clear to several thousand people that the
Dems were quite happy about prolonging the crisis here in California, so
those same Dems could use it to further their own agendas. As I said in
an earlier post... to the Dems, the ends justifys the means, no matter
how many innocent people it hurts (including their own) and its even
better when they can feather their own nests while doing it..

The voters are indeed going to remember this come November.. this is one
that the California Dems are not going to be able to weasel out of...and
we are going to hold their feet to the fire....EG

Lawmakers' hush-hush talk broadcast live
By Alexa H. Bluth -- Bee Capitol Bureau
Published 2:15 a.m. PDT Tuesday, July 22, 2003

Unbeknown to them, a group of Assembly Democrats' private gab session
about the state budget impasse -- including the political implications
of accepting a Republican-driven spending plan without tax hikes -- was
broadcast across the Capitol on Monday.
Part of the more than hourlong conversation rang out on a broadcast
system available inside the Capitol and to subscribers outside the
building -- including media and lobbyists. Alerted to the mix-up,
Republican staffers recorded about 15 minutes of the conversation and
later supplied a partial transcript to reporters.



The Assembly members at the meeting tried to guess which Senate
Democrats would support a plan being crafted by Senate Republican leader
Jim Brulte and Senate President Pro Tem John Burton, D-San Francisco.

Some also tried to gauge the political costs of going along with a
budget that contained heavy program cuts, suggesting that it might be
advantageous to swallow an additional $1.5 billion worth of cuts
included in the GOP plan this year, instead of next year when Assembly
members face re-election.

The lawmakers also discussed how the budget impasse would affect a
planned ballot initiative that some Democrats are pressing. The
initiative would ask voters to reduce the required threshold to approve
a budget to 55 percent of the Legislature instead of the current
two-thirds requirement. At least one legislator said that a longer delay
would help the case for lowering the threshold.

"Since this is going to be a crisis, the crisis could be this year. No
one's running, and maybe you end up better off than you would have, and
maybe you don't. But what you do is you show people that you can't get
to this without a 55 percent vote," said Assemblywoman Jackie Goldberg,
D-Los Angeles, according to excerpts of the discussion provided by
Republican legislative staff.

Goldberg also said, according to the excerpts, that the budget crisis
would illustrate what she called damaging effects of Proposition 13,
which limited the growth of property taxes.

"Some of us are thinking that maybe people should see the pain up close
and personal, right now," said Goldberg, who could not be reached for
comment Monday night.

The lawmakers were meeting in one of the Capitol's many committee rooms,
which are equipped to broadcast public hearings. The audio equipment
typically is turned off for such private meetings.

"It's just one of those accidents, much ado about nothing," said
Assemblyman Mervyn Dymally, D-Compton, who assembled the small group of
what he called "progressive Democrats" that has been meeting since
January to hash out budget issues.

The blunder came as the state has operated for 21 days without a budget,
and as Senate leaders are reportedly on the verge of striking a budget
deal that would not include new taxes.

Republicans -- the minority in both chambers -- have said they will not
supply the needed votes for a budget that includes tax increases to help
erase a $38.2 billion state budget hole. But Brulte and Burton have been
meeting to reach a compromise that could hit the Senate floor this week.

Assemblywoman Hannah-Beth Jackson, D-Santa Barbara, who was at the
meeting, was unhappy that the discussion was broadcast, but also was
unapologetic.

"If the Republicans are gleeful that they caught us on tape, the
discussion was open and frank, and frankly one that we need to have,"
Jackson said. "It was really just sort of a brainstorming discussion."

Still, when someone finally informed the group that the conversation was
being broadcast, Goldberg uttered a profanity and declared, "How could
that happen?"


Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:37 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2020 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"

 

Copyright © 2017