Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after uninstalling
68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll auto-update unless I
change some settings though .
--
Snag
Witty saying
goes here

On 2020-06-20 19:25, Snag wrote:
Â* Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after uninstalling
68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll auto-update unless I
change some settings though .

Welcome to the Dark Side!

On 6/20/2020 7:25 PM, Snag wrote:
Â* Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after uninstalling
68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll auto-update unless I
change some settings though .

I have been using Tbird after upgrading from XP to 7 with few problems,
until I had a power outage a few days ago. That one took me a couple
days to figure out and restore all my newsgroups and email, but seems to
be working great again. It turned out to be a mutilated prefs.js file
that caused it to lose all the connections to all my setting and
email/newsgroup data.

On 2020-06-20 19:57, Bob F wrote:
On 6/20/2020 7:25 PM, Snag wrote:
Â*Â* Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after uninstalling
68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll auto-update unless
I change some settings though .

I have been using Tbird after upgrading from XP to 7 with few problems,
until I had a power outage a few days ago. That one took me a couple
days to figure out and restore all my newsgroups and email, but seems to
be working great again. It turned out to be a mutilated prefs.js file
that caused it to lose all the connections to all my setting and
email/newsgroup data.

Hi Bob,

Get one of these:

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produ...o-700/P-BR700G

The cheaper ones suck.

-T

On 6/20/2020 10:57 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 6/20/2020 7:25 PM, Snag wrote:
Â*Â* Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after uninstalling
68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll auto-update unless
I change some settings though .

I have been using Tbird after upgrading from XP to 7 with few problems,
until I had a power outage a few days ago. That one took me a couple
days to figure out and restore all my newsgroups and email, but seems to
be working great again. It turned out to be a mutilated prefs.js file
that caused it to lose all the connections to all my setting and
email/newsgroup data.
Get a cheap UPS unit and avoid potential problems. I have them on the
cable boxes since they take forever to reboot after a few second outage.

Cable company owns the box so no cost to me if they get cooked but the
PITA is worth it.

On 6/20/2020 8:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 6/20/2020 10:57 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 6/20/2020 7:25 PM, Snag wrote:
Â*Â* Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after uninstalling
68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll auto-update unless
I change some settings though .

I have been using Tbird after upgrading from XP to 7 with few
problems, until I had a power outage a few days ago. That one took me
a couple days to figure out and restore all my newsgroups and email,
but seems to be working great again. It turned out to be a mutilated
prefs.js file that caused it to lose all the connections to all my
setting and email/newsgroup data.
Get a cheap UPS unit and avoid potential problems.Â* I have them on the
cable boxes since they take forever to reboot after a few second outage.

Cable company owns the box so no cost to me if they get cooked but the
PITA is worth it.

My problem was a vandal crow. Power company guys say it happens this
time of the year for about 3 months. Not any other time. Crow lands on
the transformer, then pecks the top of it until it reaches up to the top
of the insulator. Than BANG! Dead crop was at the bottom of the pole.
The fuse was clearly blown. I guess 6-7 amps at 15000 volts is enough to
cook a crow.

On 6/20/2020 11:06 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-06-20 19:57, Bob F wrote:
On 6/20/2020 7:25 PM, Snag wrote:
Â*Â* Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after uninstalling
68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll auto-update unless
I change some settings though .

I have been using Tbird after upgrading from XP to 7 with few
problems, until I had a power outage a few days ago. That one took me
a couple days to figure out and restore all my newsgroups and email,
but seems to be working great again. It turned out to be a mutilated
prefs.js file that caused it to lose all the connections to all my
setting and email/newsgroup data.

Hi Bob,

Get one of these:

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produ...o-700/P-BR700G


The cheaper ones suck.

-T


I have no problems with the cheap ones and have survived many power
failures with them. They keep you on long enough to have a safe shut down.

On 6/20/2020 10:25 PM, Snag wrote:
Â* Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after uninstalling
68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll auto-update unless I
change some settings though .

I never got the complete install of T-bird that I wanted on a second
computer even copying over the whole profile. I have mentioned in the
Mozilla newsgroup that it would be nice of they had a sync like in
Firefox where you can duplicate on a second system.

On 6/20/2020 9:25 PM, Snag wrote:
Â* Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after uninstalling
68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll auto-update unless I
change some settings though .



I am locked in at 60.9

The newer versions really sucked on Windows.


Seems ok on Linux though

On 06/21/2020 07:32 AM, Frank wrote:
On 6/20/2020 11:06 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-06-20 19:57, Bob F wrote:
On 6/20/2020 7:25 PM, Snag wrote:
Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after
uninstalling 68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll
auto-update unless I change some settings though .

I have been using Tbird after upgrading from XP to 7 with few
problems, until I had a power outage a few days ago. That one took me
a couple days to figure out and restore all my newsgroups and email,
but seems to be working great again. It turned out to be a mutilated
prefs.js file that caused it to lose all the connections to all my
setting and email/newsgroup data.

Hi Bob,

Get one of these:

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produ...o-700/P-BR700G


The cheaper ones suck.

-T


I have no problems with the cheap ones and have survived many power
failures with them. They keep you on long enough to have a safe shut down.

Everything fails sooner or later but the cheap ones tend to fail sooner.
I haven't done a nose count but we must have at least 50 computers in my
department alone so it's a larger sample.

The annoying thing is when they fail it's worse than no UPS. during
those brief flashes where everyone screams 'Oh ****!' it's the boxes
with faulty UPSes that go down when even those just plugged into the
wall survive.

On 6/21/2020 12:32 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 06/21/2020 07:32 AM, Frank wrote:
On 6/20/2020 11:06 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-06-20 19:57, Bob F wrote:
On 6/20/2020 7:25 PM, Snag wrote:
Â*Â* Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after
uninstalling 68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll
auto-update unless I change some settings though .

I have been using Tbird after upgrading from XP to 7 with few
problems, until I had a power outage a few days ago. That one took me
a couple days to figure out and restore all my newsgroups and email,
but seems to be working great again. It turned out to be a mutilated
prefs.js file that caused it to lose all the connections to all my
setting and email/newsgroup data.

Hi Bob,

Get one of these:

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produ...o-700/P-BR700G



The cheaper ones suck.

-T


I have no problems with the cheap ones and have survived many power
failures with them.Â* They keep you on long enough to have a safe shut
down.

Everything fails sooner or later but the cheap ones tend to fail sooner.
I haven't done a nose count but we must have at least 50 computers in my
department alone so it's a larger sample.

The annoying thing is when they fail it's worse than no UPS. during
those brief flashes where everyone screams 'Oh ****!' it's the boxes
with faulty UPSes that go down when even those just plugged into the
wall survive.

You have a lot more experience than me. I figure you only need a minute
or two of reserve power to enact a safe shutdown.

Years ago I had a Gateway computer go down in a power failure and had
all kinds of problems. Hard drives cannot take a hard shut down.

Now I even plug the UPS into surge protector. One day while on line a
branch down the street came down shorting the high tension to the low
tension wire. Every surge protector in the house got fried including
the one to the UPS but computer survived. I did lose a microwave.

On 6/21/2020 12:43 PM, Frank wrote:
On 6/21/2020 12:32 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 06/21/2020 07:32 AM, Frank wrote:
On 6/20/2020 11:06 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-06-20 19:57, Bob F wrote:
On 6/20/2020 7:25 PM, Snag wrote:
Â*Â* Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after
uninstalling 68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll
auto-update unless I change some settings though .

I have been using Tbird after upgrading from XP to 7 with few
problems, until I had a power outage a few days ago. That one took me
a couple days to figure out and restore all my newsgroups and email,
but seems to be working great again. It turned out to be a mutilated
prefs.js file that caused it to lose all the connections to all my
setting and email/newsgroup data.

Hi Bob,

Get one of these:

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produ...o-700/P-BR700G



The cheaper ones suck.

-T


I have no problems with the cheap ones and have survived many power
failures with them.Â* They keep you on long enough to have a safe shut
down.

Everything fails sooner or later but the cheap ones tend to fail
sooner. I haven't done a nose count but we must have at least 50
computers in my department alone so it's a larger sample.

The annoying thing is when they fail it's worse than no UPS. during
those brief flashes where everyone screams 'Oh ****!' it's the boxes
with faulty UPSes that go down when even those just plugged into the
wall survive.

You have a lot more experience than me.Â* I figure you only need a minute
or two of reserve power to enact a safe shutdown.

Years ago I had a Gateway computer go down in a power failure and had
all kinds of problems.Â* Hard drives cannot take a hard shut down.

Now I even plug the UPS into surge protector.Â* One day while on line a
branch down the street came down shorting the high tension to the low
tension wire.Â* Every surge protector in the house got fried including
the one to the UPS but computer survived.Â* I did lose a microwave.

I live just a few miles from Lightning Alley, Tampa to Orlando. I have
a whole house surge protector.

Its not always a bad thing though. A few years back in CT I wanted to
get a nice flat screen TV but could not justify getting rid of a
perfectly good 3 year old CRT 16:9 screen. God answered my prayers with
a lightning bolt. Took out everything on that circuit including the
breaker.

On 6/21/20 11:43 AM, Frank wrote:

[snip]

Now I even plug the UPS into surge protector.Â* One day while on line a
branch down the street came down shorting the high tension to the low
tension wire.Â* Every surge protector in the house got fried including
the one to the UPS but computer survived.Â* I did lose a microwave.

Last summer we had a series of brownouts, where the power voltage went
from 150V down to about 60V several times. The only damage was to one
computer. It was the computer power supply, so no software
reinstallation required.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Making fun of born-again Christians is like hunting dairy cows with a
high powered rifle and scope." -- P.J. O'Rourke

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 13:18:49 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 6/21/20 11:43 AM, Frank wrote:

[snip]

Now I even plug the UPS into surge protector.* One day while on line a
branch down the street came down shorting the high tension to the low
tension wire.* Every surge protector in the house got fried including
the one to the UPS but computer survived.* I did lose a microwave.

Last summer we had a series of brownouts, where the power voltage went
from 150V down to about 60V several times. The only damage was to one
computer. It was the computer power supply, so no software
reinstallation required.

150V? Is that a typo or did your power company turn it up to 11?

Cheap Spinal Tap reference.

On 2020-06-21 06:32, Frank wrote:
On 6/20/2020 11:06 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-06-20 19:57, Bob F wrote:
On 6/20/2020 7:25 PM, Snag wrote:
Â*Â* Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after
uninstalling 68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll
auto-update unless I change some settings though .

I have been using Tbird after upgrading from XP to 7 with few
problems, until I had a power outage a few days ago. That one took me
a couple days to figure out and restore all my newsgroups and email,
but seems to be working great again. It turned out to be a mutilated
prefs.js file that caused it to lose all the connections to all my
setting and email/newsgroup data.

Hi Bob,

Get one of these:

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produ...o-700/P-BR700G


The cheaper ones suck.

-T


I have no problems with the cheap ones and have survived many power
failures with them.Â* They keep you on long enough to have a safe shut down.

Hi Frank,

It is my experience with my numberous customer usign these
tings, that the cheap ones

1) don't provide enough power
2) are terrible at surge suppression
3) do not mechanically step up / step down under / over voltages
4) crap out a lot
5) don't have a feedback mechanism to tell your computer when they are
browning out

You pay for what you get.

-T

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 10:32:04 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 06/21/2020 07:32 AM, Frank wrote:
On 6/20/2020 11:06 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-06-20 19:57, Bob F wrote:
On 6/20/2020 7:25 PM, Snag wrote:
Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after
uninstalling 68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll
auto-update unless I change some settings though .

I have been using Tbird after upgrading from XP to 7 with few
problems, until I had a power outage a few days ago. That one took me
a couple days to figure out and restore all my newsgroups and email,
but seems to be working great again. It turned out to be a mutilated
prefs.js file that caused it to lose all the connections to all my
setting and email/newsgroup data.

Hi Bob,

Get one of these:

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produ...o-700/P-BR700G


The cheaper ones suck.

-T


I have no problems with the cheap ones and have survived many power
failures with them. They keep you on long enough to have a safe shut down.

Everything fails sooner or later but the cheap ones tend to fail sooner.
I haven't done a nose count but we must have at least 50 computers in my
department alone so it's a larger sample.

The annoying thing is when they fail it's worse than no UPS. during
those brief flashes where everyone screams 'Oh ****!' it's the boxes
with faulty UPSes that go down when even those just plugged into the
wall survive.
I've got no use for the over-hyped APC units - an associate told me
years ago it means "A Piece of Crap"and I fully concur. I've been
selling Powerware and it's predecessors for about 30 years (Best Power
and Eaton) Their line interactive unit is as low as I'll go even with
their products unless a customer insists - I've sold a fair amount of
their "dual conversion" or "online" systems. A "standby" system is
just a false sense of security, IMNSHO.
An APC online unit IS available but they are overpriced - they spend
too much money on retail advertising.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 13:23:18 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 6/21/2020 12:43 PM, Frank wrote:
On 6/21/2020 12:32 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 06/21/2020 07:32 AM, Frank wrote:
On 6/20/2020 11:06 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-06-20 19:57, Bob F wrote:
On 6/20/2020 7:25 PM, Snag wrote:
** Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after
uninstalling 68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll
auto-update unless I change some settings though .

I have been using Tbird after upgrading from XP to 7 with few
problems, until I had a power outage a few days ago. That one took me
a couple days to figure out and restore all my newsgroups and email,
but seems to be working great again. It turned out to be a mutilated
prefs.js file that caused it to lose all the connections to all my
setting and email/newsgroup data.

Hi Bob,

Get one of these:

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produ...o-700/P-BR700G



The cheaper ones suck.

-T


I have no problems with the cheap ones and have survived many power
failures with them.* They keep you on long enough to have a safe shut
down.

Everything fails sooner or later but the cheap ones tend to fail
sooner. I haven't done a nose count but we must have at least 50
computers in my department alone so it's a larger sample.

The annoying thing is when they fail it's worse than no UPS. during
those brief flashes where everyone screams 'Oh ****!' it's the boxes
with faulty UPSes that go down when even those just plugged into the
wall survive.

You have a lot more experience than me.* I figure you only need a minute
or two of reserve power to enact a safe shutdown.

Years ago I had a Gateway computer go down in a power failure and had
all kinds of problems.* Hard drives cannot take a hard shut down.

Now I even plug the UPS into surge protector.* One day while on line a
branch down the street came down shorting the high tension to the low
tension wire.* Every surge protector in the house got fried including
the one to the UPS but computer survived.* I did lose a microwave.

Someone drove into an above-ground trandformer vault just fown the
road from my Dad's place a number of years back and it sent a few
thousand volts onto the one sife of the split 240 volt distribution
line. Took out a bunch of light bulbs and the TV. All it took to fix
the TV was a fuse at something like 37 cents.

I live just a few miles from Lightning Alley, Tampa to Orlando. I have
a whole house surge protector.

I installed one with my new service entrance panel as well. Central
Ontario's Thunder Alley.

I've got a brand new surplus Cutler Hammer CHSPBRSRB "Clipper"
complete with cable and phone protection if anybody up here in Canada
needs one. Price negatiable in Waterloo Ontario (I ended up
installing the fedicated Square D unit in my panel)

Its not always a bad thing though. A few years back in CT I wanted to
get a nice flat screen TV but could not justify getting rid of a
perfectly good 3 year old CRT 16:9 screen. God answered my prayers with
a lightning bolt. Took out everything on that circuit including the
breaker.

On 6/21/2020 4:55 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-06-21 06:32, Frank wrote:
On 6/20/2020 11:06 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-06-20 19:57, Bob F wrote:
On 6/20/2020 7:25 PM, Snag wrote:
Â*Â* Earlier version , 60.6.1 , I did a cold restart after
uninstalling 68.9.1 and started from scratch . Looks like it'll
auto-update unless I change some settings though .

I have been using Tbird after upgrading from XP to 7 with few
problems, until I had a power outage a few days ago. That one took
me a couple days to figure out and restore all my newsgroups and
email, but seems to be working great again. It turned out to be a
mutilated prefs.js file that caused it to lose all the connections
to all my setting and email/newsgroup data.

Hi Bob,

Get one of these:

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produ...o-700/P-BR700G


The cheaper ones suck.

-T


I have no problems with the cheap ones and have survived many power
failures with them.Â* They keep you on long enough to have a safe shut
down.

Hi Frank,

It is my experience with my numberous customer usign these
tings, that the cheap ones

1) don't provide enough power
2) are terrible at surge suppression
3) do not mechanically step up / step down under / over voltages
4) crap out a lot
5) don't have a feedback mechanism to tell your computer when they are
browning out

You pay for what you get.

-T


Have not had any problems and it is plugged into a surge protector but I
will consider getting better when this one fails.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 14:49:53 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 13:18:49 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 6/21/20 11:43 AM, Frank wrote:

[snip]

Now I even plug the UPS into surge protector.* One day while on line a
branch down the street came down shorting the high tension to the low
tension wire.* Every surge protector in the house got fried including
the one to the UPS but computer survived.* I did lose a microwave.

Last summer we had a series of brownouts, where the power voltage went
from 150V down to about 60V several times. The only damage was to one
computer. It was the computer power supply, so no software
reinstallation required.

150V? Is that a typo or did your power company turn it up to 11?

Cheap Spinal Tap reference.

Overshoot isn't totally unheard of with brownouts

On 06/21/2020 10:43 AM, Frank wrote:
You have a lot more experience than me. I figure you only need a minute
or two of reserve power to enact a safe shutdown.

Most of ours have PowerChute monitors that will initiate a shutdown when
the reserve capacity hits a certain point. My home Linux box has a
similar monitor setup. You don't want every flicker to cause a shutdown.

I think the problem with the bad UPSs is the batteries are completely
dead so when the device fails over there's nothing. For those
millisecond flickers that's worse than being connected to the lines.

On 06/21/2020 03:17 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
I've got no use for the over-hyped APC units - an associate told me
years ago it means "A Piece of Crap"and I fully concur.

I'm using an APC at home and have no complaints. iirc I replace one
about 10 years ago.

The company is getting better. For a while it was like IT was spending
their own money so they'd send a gopher over to Best Buy for the
cheapest UPS on the shelf.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 22:02:35 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 14:49:53 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 13:18:49 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 6/21/20 11:43 AM, Frank wrote:

[snip]

Now I even plug the UPS into surge protector.* One day while on line a
branch down the street came down shorting the high tension to the low
tension wire.* Every surge protector in the house got fried including
the one to the UPS but computer survived.* I did lose a microwave.

Last summer we had a series of brownouts, where the power voltage went
from 150V down to about 60V several times. The only damage was to one
computer. It was the computer power supply, so no software
reinstallation required.

150V? Is that a typo or did your power company turn it up to 11?

Cheap Spinal Tap reference.

Overshoot isn't totally unheard of with brownouts

That seemed like a lot of overshoot, but if you say it's within limits I'll
go along.

On 2020-06-21 20:02, rbowman wrote:
On 06/21/2020 10:43 AM, Frank wrote:
You have a lot more experience than me.Â* I figure you only need a minute
or two of reserve power to enact a safe shutdown.

Most of ours have PowerChute monitors that will initiate a shutdown when
the reserve capacity hits a certain point. My home Linux box has a
similar monitor setup. You don't want every flicker to cause a shutdown.

I think the problem with the bad UPSs is the batteries are completely
dead so when the device fails over there's nothing. For those
millisecond flickers that's worse than being connected to the lines.



A test I run on customer's machines is to boot into
BIOS and press "pause" or go into Bios settings.
Then unplug the UPS from the wall and see what happens.

The other problem I see is folks plugging their computers
into the "Surge Only" side of the UPS

On 2020-06-21 20:09, rbowman wrote:
On 06/21/2020 03:17 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
Â*I've got no use for the over-hyped APC units - an associate told me
years ago it means "A Piece of Crap"and I fully concur.

I'm using an APC at home and have no complaints. iirc I replace one
about 10 years ago.

The company is getting better. For a while it was like IT was spending
their own money so they'd send a gopher over to Best Buy for the
cheapest UPS on the shelf.

I had a guy the got himself a Amazon essentials UPS.
What a piece of ...

And he acted like I was trying to "rip him off"
when I told him it was a poor choice.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 21:02:17 -0600, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


Most of ours have

Define "ours", gossip! Is that your other babbling room mates in your old
people's home?

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 21:09:16 -0600, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


I'm using an APC at home and have no complaints. iirc I replace one
about 10 years ago.

The company is getting better.

Let's all hope YOU aren't ...or your driveling will never stop! G

On 06/22/2020 01:54 AM, T wrote:
On 2020-06-21 20:09, rbowman wrote:
On 06/21/2020 03:17 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
I've got no use for the over-hyped APC units - an associate told me
years ago it means "A Piece of Crap"and I fully concur.

I'm using an APC at home and have no complaints. iirc I replace one
about 10 years ago.

The company is getting better. For a while it was like IT was spending
their own money so they'd send a gopher over to Best Buy for the
cheapest UPS on the shelf.

I had a guy the got himself a Amazon essentials UPS.
What a piece of ...

Like Harbor Freight, the higher the parts count. I bought a couple
Essentials 6' USB cables and an HDMI cable that work okay. iirc the USB
cables were under $2. Maybe they would be a problem with USB 3.0 but not
2.0.

On 6/21/20 2:49 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:

[snip]

Last summer we had a series of brownouts, where the power voltage went
from 150V down to about 60V several times. The only damage was to one
computer. It was the computer power supply, so no software
reinstallation required.

150V? Is that a typo or did your power company turn it up to 11?

It got that high before dropping.

Cheap Spinal Tap reference.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out,
which is the exact opposite." -- Bertrand Russell