On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 6:00:51 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
Could you always boot from a USB drive? My BIOS didn't have that
option.
Most of todays computers no longer use a "bios"

That has still become the buzz word for the firmware that turns a
bunch of random chips into a computer.



If not, what takes the place of the BIOS ? Maybe something like it by a
different name ? The Microsoft type computers I know of need something
in the hardware/firmware to tell the processor how to start up the hard
drive to load an operating system of some sort and where the video and
key board/mouse is.

Maybe something like the Chrome Book does not use it as such.

He may be referring to UEFI, which is the modernized version of a BIOS,
but it's still referred to as a BIOS by the industry and it performs
the same function.

On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:00:42 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...
Could you always boot from a USB drive? My BIOS didn't have that
option.
Most of todays computers no longer use a "bios"

That has still become the buzz word for the firmware that turns a
bunch of random chips into a computer.



If not, what takes the place of the BIOS ? Maybe something like it by a
different name ? The Microsoft type computers I know of need something
in the hardware/firmware to tell the processor how to start up the hard
drive to load an operating system of some sort and where the video and
key board/mouse is.

Maybe something like the Chrome Book does not use it as such.

PC makers have slowly been replacing BIOS with the Unified Extensible
Firmware Interface (UEFI). It is basically a "low level operating
system"

On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:02:51 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:00:42 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote:

In article ,
says...
Could you always boot from a USB drive? My BIOS didn't have that
option.
Most of todays computers no longer use a "bios"

That has still become the buzz word for the firmware that turns a
bunch of random chips into a computer.



If not, what takes the place of the BIOS ? Maybe something like it by a
different name ? The Microsoft type computers I know of need something
in the hardware/firmware to tell the processor how to start up the hard
drive to load an operating system of some sort and where the video and
key board/mouse is.


I use UEFI on my latest PC, although the MB supports legacy BIOS too.
UEFI has advantages. But AFAIK I haven't used them.
"Legacy BIOS" is in "emulation mode"

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 7:09:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:00:42 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...
Could you always boot from a USB drive? My BIOS didn't have that
option.
Most of todays computers no longer use a "bios"

That has still become the buzz word for the firmware that turns a
bunch of random chips into a computer.



If not, what takes the place of the BIOS ? Maybe something like it by a
different name ? The Microsoft type computers I know of need something
in the hardware/firmware to tell the processor how to start up the hard
drive to load an operating system of some sort and where the video and
key board/mouse is.

Maybe something like the Chrome Book does not use it as such.


They all need some kind of firmware to match each chip set to the
instruction set and to establish the environment. This probably traces
it back to the IBM 360 system where there was a vast difference in the
hardware under the covers of the various models but they all ran the
same instruction set because of the firmware loaded. At that time it
was called microcode but it had the same function. In fact the ones
with reloadable code could actually emulate other types of computer.

AT it's most minimum level, all a motherboard needs is enough code
to get the hardware running up to the point of loading the operating
system, or whatever code it's ultimately going to run. When it
powers up, the CPU goes to it's reset location in memory and starts
fetching the first instructions, from there and executing them.
That code has to be in Flash or some kind of non-volatile memory, so
it's always there at power-up. That first code
then initializes whatever hardware in the system needs to be
setup in order to get enough of it running so that it can load more
code, eg loading the OS from a disk drive, to make it fully functional, a process called bootstrapping.

On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 19:27:22 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:02:51 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:00:42 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote:

In article ,
says...
Could you always boot from a USB drive? My BIOS didn't have that
option.
Most of todays computers no longer use a "bios"

That has still become the buzz word for the firmware that turns a
bunch of random chips into a computer.



If not, what takes the place of the BIOS ? Maybe something like it by a
different name ? The Microsoft type computers I know of need something
in the hardware/firmware to tell the processor how to start up the hard
drive to load an operating system of some sort and where the video and
key board/mouse is.


I use UEFI on my latest PC, although the MB supports legacy BIOS too.
UEFI has advantages. But AFAIK I haven't used them.
"Legacy BIOS" is in "emulation mode"

I doubt that. Last I looked it's encoded in flash memory on the MB.

On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 16:36:29 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 7:09:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:00:42 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...
Could you always boot from a USB drive? My BIOS didn't have that
option.
Most of todays computers no longer use a "bios"

That has still become the buzz word for the firmware that turns a
bunch of random chips into a computer.



If not, what takes the place of the BIOS ? Maybe something like it by a
different name ? The Microsoft type computers I know of need something
in the hardware/firmware to tell the processor how to start up the hard
drive to load an operating system of some sort and where the video and
key board/mouse is.

Maybe something like the Chrome Book does not use it as such.


They all need some kind of firmware to match each chip set to the
instruction set and to establish the environment. This probably traces
it back to the IBM 360 system where there was a vast difference in the
hardware under the covers of the various models but they all ran the
same instruction set because of the firmware loaded. At that time it
was called microcode but it had the same function. In fact the ones
with reloadable code could actually emulate other types of computer.

AT it's most minimum level, all a motherboard needs is enough code
to get the hardware running up to the point of loading the operating
system, or whatever code it's ultimately going to run. When it
powers up, the CPU goes to it's reset location in memory and starts
fetching the first instructions, from there and executing them.
That code has to be in Flash or some kind of non-volatile memory, so
it's always there at power-up. That first code
then initializes whatever hardware in the system needs to be
setup in order to get enough of it running so that it can load more
code, eg loading the OS from a disk drive, to make it fully functional, a process called bootstrapping.

Hence "Basic Input Output System". That firmware is what makes all of
the various chip sets speak "Intel".

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 9:00:29 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 16:36:29 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 7:09:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:00:42 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...
Could you always boot from a USB drive? My BIOS didn't have that
option.
Most of todays computers no longer use a "bios"

That has still become the buzz word for the firmware that turns a
bunch of random chips into a computer.



If not, what takes the place of the BIOS ? Maybe something like it by a
different name ? The Microsoft type computers I know of need something
in the hardware/firmware to tell the processor how to start up the hard
drive to load an operating system of some sort and where the video and
key board/mouse is.

Maybe something like the Chrome Book does not use it as such.


They all need some kind of firmware to match each chip set to the
instruction set and to establish the environment. This probably traces
it back to the IBM 360 system where there was a vast difference in the
hardware under the covers of the various models but they all ran the
same instruction set because of the firmware loaded. At that time it
was called microcode but it had the same function. In fact the ones
with reloadable code could actually emulate other types of computer.

AT it's most minimum level, all a motherboard needs is enough code
to get the hardware running up to the point of loading the operating
system, or whatever code it's ultimately going to run. When it
powers up, the CPU goes to it's reset location in memory and starts
fetching the first instructions, from there and executing them.
That code has to be in Flash or some kind of non-volatile memory, so
it's always there at power-up. That first code
then initializes whatever hardware in the system needs to be
setup in order to get enough of it running so that it can load more
code, eg loading the OS from a disk drive, to make it fully functional, a process called bootstrapping.

Hence "Basic Input Output System". That firmware is what makes all of
the various chip sets speak "Intel".

It's more like speak IBM and MSFT. They are the ones that came up
with the BIOS that went into the first Intel architecture PCs that
became the modern PC industry, not Intel. At that point, Intel was
just a chip manufacturer and IBM wound up picking the 8088 as the
CPU for it;s first PC.

[snip]

For a while I thought that USB ports did't work until after Windows
started, but PS-2 ports and the larger round ports that preceded them
worked before Windows loaded. As soon as the BIOS ran.

Now I think I'm wrong, but was there ever some truth to this?

I remember one system (from when USB was new) where I connected a PS/2
keyboard for use in BIOS setup. That BIOS didn't use a mouse so USB was
OK for that. It was a few more years before BIOS had USB support. Also,
that old system had only 2 USB ports and I wanted to leave one free for
a USB storage device.

Note that if you're going to use a PS/2 device, it has to be connected
at system boot, unlike USB which can be plugged in anytime.

IIRC, "both" devices (keyboards / mice that work on USB or PS/2) are in
USB mode initially, but switch if they detect a PS/2 initialization from
the PC (which happens only at boot).

--
98 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"What is the function that a clergyman performs in the world? Answer: he
gets his living by assuring idiots that he can save them from an
imaginary hell." [H. L. Mencken, "Minority Reports"]

On 09/18/2018 11:34 AM, micky wrote:

[snip]

Everything else worked. It's still like that years later. Did I
knock a bit out of place?

That could have happened, putting it in some sort of test mode. However,
it'd be hard to find the proper reset command to fix it.

**A small huawei about 7 years old fwiw

--
98 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"What is the function that a clergyman performs in the world? Answer: he
gets his living by assuring idiots that he can save them from an
imaginary hell." [H. L. Mencken, "Minority Reports"]

On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:47:15 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 19:27:22 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:02:51 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:00:42 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote:

In article ,
says...
Could you always boot from a USB drive? My BIOS didn't have that
option.
Most of todays computers no longer use a "bios"

That has still become the buzz word for the firmware that turns a
bunch of random chips into a computer.



If not, what takes the place of the BIOS ? Maybe something like it by a
different name ? The Microsoft type computers I know of need something
in the hardware/firmware to tell the processor how to start up the hard
drive to load an operating system of some sort and where the video and
key board/mouse is.


I use UEFI on my latest PC, although the MB supports legacy BIOS too.
UEFI has advantages. But AFAIK I haven't used them.
"Legacy BIOS" is in "emulation mode"

I doubt that. Last I looked it's encoded in flash memory on the MB.


Not on a UEFI board. The BIOS is emulated in the UEFI -on virtually
ALL of them

On 09/18/2018 11:36 AM, micky wrote:

[snip]

mini-DIN. Regular DIN describes the older PC keyboard (and cassette on
the original PCs) connectors.

So what is the difference between mini-DIN and PS/2?

The Wikipedia article at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN_connector shows 7 varieties of
mini-DIN. The one in the middle looks like a PS/2 connector.

BTW, normal DIN is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector . I
have seen the 5,6, and 8 pin varieties.

BTW, one of the varieties of mini-DIN was used for S-video (which also
fell out too easily).


--
98 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"What is the function that a clergyman performs in the world? Answer: he
gets his living by assuring idiots that he can save them from an
imaginary hell." [H. L. Mencken, "Minority Reports"]

On 09/18/2018 11:37 AM, micky wrote:

[snip]

Could you always boot from a USB drive? My BIOS didn't have that
option.

Apparently BIOS didn't have USB support for several years after the PCs
had USB ports. I'm not sure just how long. Does anyone know?


--
98 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"What is the function that a clergyman performs in the world? Answer: he
gets his living by assuring idiots that he can save them from an
imaginary hell." [H. L. Mencken, "Minority Reports"]

On 09/18/2018 03:19 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

[snip]

Could you always boot from a USB drive? My BIOS didn't have that
option.
Most oftodays computers no longer use a "bios"

True, although they did at the time when you couldn't use USB until the
OS loaded.

--
98 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"What is the function that a clergyman performs in the world? Answer: he
gets his living by assuring idiots that he can save them from an
imaginary hell." [H. L. Mencken, "Minority Reports"]

On 09/18/2018 04:06 PM, wrote:

[snip]

Most of todays computers no longer use a "bios"

That has still become the buzz word for the firmware that turns a
bunch of random chips into a computer.

Although I'd try to use the correct term, UEFI (or "firmware" is this is
unknown).

--
98 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"What is the function that a clergyman performs in the world? Answer: he
gets his living by assuring idiots that he can save them from an
imaginary hell." [H. L. Mencken, "Minority Reports"]

On 09/18/2018 04:20 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

[snip]

I am thinking the first version of either win 95 or 98 had computers
with the USB port,but it would not work. Then there was an update that
would load a driver for the USB port.

Could be that win 95B was the first one that even used the usb.

Been a long time, so could be way off.

Win95B "Detroit". was the first with USB support. Also:

long file name support, a Windows (not DOS) feature
DOS 7.1 with FAT32 support.

--
98 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"What is the function that a clergyman performs in the world? Answer: he
gets his living by assuring idiots that he can save them from an
imaginary hell." [H. L. Mencken, "Minority Reports"]

On 09/18/2018 08:08 PM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

It's more like speak IBM and MSFT. They are the ones that came up
with the BIOS that went into the first Intel architecture PCs that
became the modern PC industry, not Intel. At that point, Intel was
just a chip manufacturer and IBM wound up picking the 8088 as the
CPU for it;s first PC.

Before IBM PC, CP/M used the term BIOS although that module was loaded
from disk by the boot code.

--
98 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"What is the function that a clergyman performs in the world? Answer: he
gets his living by assuring idiots that he can save them from an
imaginary hell." [H. L. Mencken, "Minority Reports"]

On 09/18/2018 09:02 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 09/17/2018 09:54 PM, rbowman wrote:

[snip]

Old mobos have to go someplace...

in 1998 I didn't think that "Y2K compatible" would ever mean it's old.

One of my projects in '99 was cleaning up legacy code in preparation for
Y2K. Some programmers apparently didn't think we'd make it to 2000. They
were the same people who used signed shorts to save a couple of bytes in
key data structures. Who would ever need more than 32,737 of anything?

2000 was the beginning of the end of AIX for us. iirc AIX 4.1 was y2k
compliant but wouldn't run on older RS6000 servers. Sites looked at the
price of new IBM hardware and Windows Server started looked very good to
them.

I was on call on Dec 31 and went to the local First Night functions.
When the Ed Norton Big Band struck up auld lang Syne in the University
Ballroom and the lights didn't go out I figured I might as well go home
and go to bed.

On 09/18/2018 02:19 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 12:37:29 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 18 Sep 2018 09:35:33 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 12:31:04 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 17 Sep 2018 20:56:18 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

[snip]

When's the last time you saw a new PC that uses a PS2 connector for the
keyboard? Fifteen, twenty years? They didn't send anything wrong,
she's just confused or trolling.

Some do have them, although it's better to use USB. Use any port
(although you might want to avoid USB3, usually with blue plastic in the
connector).


For a while I thought that USB ports did't work until after Windows
started, but PS-2 ports and the larger round ports that preceded them
worked before Windows loaded. As soon as the BIOS ran.

Now I think I'm wrong, but was there ever some truth to this?

Since you can boot from a USB drive, I'd say the answer is a definite no.

Could you always boot from a USB drive? My BIOS didn't have that
option.
Most oftodays computers no longer use a "bios"


A rose by any other name like UEFI is still essentially a rose.

On 09/18/2018 04:00 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
Could you always boot from a USB drive? My BIOS didn't have that
option.
Most of todays computers no longer use a "bios"

That has still become the buzz word for the firmware that turns a
bunch of random chips into a computer.



If not, what takes the place of the BIOS ? Maybe something like it by a
different name ? The Microsoft type computers I know of need something
in the hardware/firmware to tell the processor how to start up the hard
drive to load an operating system of some sort and where the video and
key board/mouse is.

Unified Extensible Firmware Interface.

On 09/18/2018 10:36 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 17 Sep 2018 20:49:21 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 09/17/2018 02:58 PM, Tekkie® wrote:

[snip]

The round type are called DIN connectors. The flat type are called USB
connectors. USB is most common these days. They sent the wrong k/b and
mouse. Are there adapters in the box?

mini-DIN. Regular DIN describes the older PC keyboard (and cassette on
the original PCs) connectors.

So what is the difference between mini-DIN and PS/2?

All PS/2 connectors are mini-DIN but not all mini-DIN patterns are PS/2.

In article ,
says...

If not, what takes the place of the BIOS ? Maybe something like it by a
different name ? The Microsoft type computers I know of need something
in the hardware/firmware to tell the processor how to start up the hard
drive to load an operating system of some sort and where the video and
key board/mouse is.

Unified Extensible Firmware Interface.




Ok, seems to do the same thing,a program that runs to start with to get
access to the hard drive or other starting device that contains the
programs you want to use.

On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:08:27 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 9:00:29 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 16:36:29 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 7:09:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:00:42 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...
Could you always boot from a USB drive? My BIOS didn't have that
option.
Most of todays computers no longer use a "bios"

That has still become the buzz word for the firmware that turns a
bunch of random chips into a computer.



If not, what takes the place of the BIOS ? Maybe something like it by a
different name ? The Microsoft type computers I know of need something
in the hardware/firmware to tell the processor how to start up the hard
drive to load an operating system of some sort and where the video and
key board/mouse is.

Maybe something like the Chrome Book does not use it as such.


They all need some kind of firmware to match each chip set to the
instruction set and to establish the environment. This probably traces
it back to the IBM 360 system where there was a vast difference in the
hardware under the covers of the various models but they all ran the
same instruction set because of the firmware loaded. At that time it
was called microcode but it had the same function. In fact the ones
with reloadable code could actually emulate other types of computer.

AT it's most minimum level, all a motherboard needs is enough code
to get the hardware running up to the point of loading the operating
system, or whatever code it's ultimately going to run. When it
powers up, the CPU goes to it's reset location in memory and starts
fetching the first instructions, from there and executing them.
That code has to be in Flash or some kind of non-volatile memory, so
it's always there at power-up. That first code
then initializes whatever hardware in the system needs to be
setup in order to get enough of it running so that it can load more
code, eg loading the OS from a disk drive, to make it fully functional, a process called bootstrapping.

Hence "Basic Input Output System". That firmware is what makes all of
the various chip sets speak "Intel".

It's more like speak IBM and MSFT. They are the ones that came up
with the BIOS that went into the first Intel architecture PCs that
became the modern PC industry, not Intel. At that point, Intel was
just a chip manufacturer and IBM wound up picking the 8088 as the
CPU for it;s first PC.

I was just using Intel to refer to the instruction set also called
Wintel. It actually had it's roots in CP/M.
Bill Gates bought the MS DOS software from the guy who stole it from
Digital Research.

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 11:55:02 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:08:27 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 9:00:29 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 16:36:29 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 7:09:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 18:00:42 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...
Could you always boot from a USB drive? My BIOS didn't have that
option.
Most of todays computers no longer use a "bios"

That has still become the buzz word for the firmware that turns a
bunch of random chips into a computer.



If not, what takes the place of the BIOS ? Maybe something like it by a
different name ? The Microsoft type computers I know of need something
in the hardware/firmware to tell the processor how to start up the hard
drive to load an operating system of some sort and where the video and
key board/mouse is.

Maybe something like the Chrome Book does not use it as such.


They all need some kind of firmware to match each chip set to the
instruction set and to establish the environment. This probably traces
it back to the IBM 360 system where there was a vast difference in the
hardware under the covers of the various models but they all ran the
same instruction set because of the firmware loaded. At that time it
was called microcode but it had the same function. In fact the ones
with reloadable code could actually emulate other types of computer.

AT it's most minimum level, all a motherboard needs is enough code
to get the hardware running up to the point of loading the operating
system, or whatever code it's ultimately going to run. When it
powers up, the CPU goes to it's reset location in memory and starts
fetching the first instructions, from there and executing them.
That code has to be in Flash or some kind of non-volatile memory, so
it's always there at power-up. That first code
then initializes whatever hardware in the system needs to be
setup in order to get enough of it running so that it can load more
code, eg loading the OS from a disk drive, to make it fully functional, a process called bootstrapping.

Hence "Basic Input Output System". That firmware is what makes all of
the various chip sets speak "Intel".

It's more like speak IBM and MSFT. They are the ones that came up
with the BIOS that went into the first Intel architecture PCs that
became the modern PC industry, not Intel. At that point, Intel was
just a chip manufacturer and IBM wound up picking the 8088 as the
CPU for it;s first PC.

I was just using Intel to refer to the instruction set also called
Wintel.


The Bios has nothing to do with the instruction set, which is solely defined
by the architects of the microprocessor and is implemented in the
microprocessor. The Bios is the low layer software that existed between the
OS and the hardware and boots the OS. The Bios is essentially OS independent,
which is why you can run OS's other than MSFT ones on the same motherboard.



It actually had it's roots in CP/M.
Bill Gates bought the MS DOS software from the guy who stole it from
Digital Research.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 18 Sep 2018 20:53:27 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 09/18/2018 11:36 AM, micky wrote:

[snip]

mini-DIN. Regular DIN describes the older PC keyboard (and cassette on
the original PCs) connectors.

So what is the difference between mini-DIN and PS/2?

The Wikipedia article at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN_connector shows 7 varieties of
mini-DIN. The one in the middle looks like a PS/2 connector.

BTW, normal DIN is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector . I
have seen the 5,6, and 8 pin varieties.

BTW, one of the varieties of mini-DIN was used for S-video (which also
fell out too easily).

Thank you, Clare and Mark. I'll have to go look at the two articles
above.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 18 Sep 2018 20:53:27 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 09/18/2018 11:36 AM, micky wrote:

[snip]

mini-DIN. Regular DIN describes the older PC keyboard (and cassette on
the original PCs) connectors.

So what is the difference between mini-DIN and PS/2?

The Wikipedia article at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN_connector shows 7 varieties of
mini-DIN. The one in the middle looks like a PS/2 connector.

BTW, I didn't see that coming. All these years and I don't remember
every learning about mini-DIN, and all I know about DIN is that car
radios come in that size.

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:40:45 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 18 Sep 2018 20:53:27 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 09/18/2018 11:36 AM, micky wrote:

[snip]

mini-DIN. Regular DIN describes the older PC keyboard (and cassette on
the original PCs) connectors.

So what is the difference between mini-DIN and PS/2?

The Wikipedia article at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN_connector shows 7 varieties of
mini-DIN. The one in the middle looks like a PS/2 connector.

BTW, I didn't see that coming. All these years and I don't remember
every learning about mini-DIN, and all I know about DIN is that car
radios come in that size.

Deutsches Institut für Normung
The German standards agency.
They are sort of like NEMA or SAE

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:40:45 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 18 Sep 2018 20:53:27 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 09/18/2018 11:36 AM, micky wrote:

[snip]

mini-DIN. Regular DIN describes the older PC keyboard (and cassette on
the original PCs) connectors.

So what is the difference between mini-DIN and PS/2?

The Wikipedia article at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN_connector shows 7 varieties of
mini-DIN. The one in the middle looks like a PS/2 connector.

BTW, I didn't see that coming. All these years and I don't remember
every learning about mini-DIN, and all I know about DIN is that car
radios come in that size.
DIN is a "standaed" - not a size.

DIN, Deutsches Institut für Normung e.V. (German Institute for
Standardization) develops norms and standards for rationalization,
quality assurance, environmental protection, safety and communication
in industry, technology, science, and government, as well as the
public domain

something like ISO and SAE and ANSI and ASTM combined.

On 09/19/2018 08:46 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:40:45 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 18 Sep 2018 20:53:27 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 09/18/2018 11:36 AM, micky wrote:

[snip]

mini-DIN. Regular DIN describes the older PC keyboard (and cassette on
the original PCs) connectors.

So what is the difference between mini-DIN and PS/2?

The Wikipedia article at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN_connector shows 7 varieties of
mini-DIN. The one in the middle looks like a PS/2 connector.

BTW, I didn't see that coming. All these years and I don't remember
every learning about mini-DIN, and all I know about DIN is that car
radios come in that size.

Deutsches Institut für Normung
The German standards agency.
They are sort of like NEMA or SAE


Leave it to the Germans to say "FFS, can't you make all the frigging car
radios the same size instead of everybody marching to their own
drummer?" Damn Nazis...

Even if it's a 1/2 DIN, double DIN, or some other variant a dashkit puts
you in business.

On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 12:39:25 AM UTC-5, rbowman wrote:
On 09/19/2018 08:46 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:40:45 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 18 Sep 2018 20:53:27 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 09/18/2018 11:36 AM, micky wrote:

[snip]

mini-DIN. Regular DIN describes the older PC keyboard (and cassette on
the original PCs) connectors.

So what is the difference between mini-DIN and PS/2?

The Wikipedia article at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN_connector shows 7 varieties of
mini-DIN. The one in the middle looks like a PS/2 connector.

BTW, I didn't see that coming. All these years and I don't remember
every learning about mini-DIN, and all I know about DIN is that car
radios come in that size.

Deutsches Institut für Normung
The German standards agency.
They are sort of like NEMA or SAE


Leave it to the Germans to say "FFS, can't you make all the frigging car
radios the same size instead of everybody marching to their own
drummer?" Damn Nazis...

Even if it's a 1/2 DIN, double DIN, or some other variant a dashkit puts
you in business.

Do standard keyboards and mice fit? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster

On 09/19/2018 08:40 PM, micky wrote:

[snip]

BTW, I didn't see that coming. All these years and I don't remember
every learning about mini-DIN, and all I know about DIN is that car
radios come in that size.

The first I heard of DIN was in about 1975, with my father's tape deck
(IIRC, the brand name was Dokorder). At one time he suspected that the
problem was in the audio connectors. Since this tape deck had a (5-pin)
DIN connector (same as old PC keyboards?) he got an adapter (4 RCA jacks
to 5-pin DIN plug).

--
96 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"To rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another
world, is just as base as to use force." -- Hypatia (c. 370-415 CE)

Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us...



On 9/17/2018 3:58 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Cheri posted for all of us...



"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
k.net...
In article , says....

Hi, I'm sorry if this is the wrong group but hoping someone can help.. I
ordered a desktop computer with Win10 that came with mouse and keyboard.
The
computer plug ins on the back of computer for these are round pin type,
but
the mouse and keyboard that came with it have the slotted flat plug ends.
I
have a man coming from Best Buy on Tuesday and wonder what type if any
adapters there are for this. Thanks to anyone who can help, I am not
computer savvy at all.

--




Does the computer have any of the flat slots on the back ? Those are
called USB ports and if there are any , you can plug the keyboard and
mouse into any of them and Win10 will find them.


They do make the adapters for this, but most computers have not used the
round plugs in years.


Thank you so much for that answer! I can now see what you mean. You have
been most helpful.

Cheri

The round type are called DIN connectors. The flat type are called USB
connectors. USB is most common these days. They sent the wrong k/b and
mouse. Are there adapters in the box?


No, they sent USB. You are thinking backwards on this. There will not
be a labeled plug though, that is the confusion.

Ok, I didn't read it correctly (again) :-(

--
Tekkie

Mark Lloyd posted for all of us...



On 09/17/2018 02:58 PM, Tekkie® wrote:

[snip]

The round type are called DIN connectors. The flat type are called USB
connectors. USB is most common these days. They sent the wrong k/b and
mouse. Are there adapters in the box?

mini-DIN. Regular DIN describes the older PC keyboard (and cassette on
the original PCs) connectors.

BTW, one of the varieties of mini-DIN was used for S-video (which also
fell out too easily).

Thanks for the correction.

--
Tekkie