On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:10:15 GMT, Scott Cramer
wrote:

SYC is a national volunteer ministry that grants requests from
terminally ill and handicapped youth in the field of shooting and
hunting.



So... the donated funds go to kids whose dying wish is... to kill
something. It shore don't get much more Christian than that, Bubba.


It has usually been the case that a culture is described to itself by
those who live in metropolitan areas. The cities are the traditional
loci of the, allegedly, most highly valued cultural activities and
most histories of past cultures deal with the denizens of the urban
spaces and the activities of those who live, work and, in many
instances, are born into the most densely populated areas.

As we have come to live in the period of time that has produced the
megalopolis, this paradigm is ever more the reality.

The unfortunate result of this is that a vast segment of the
population is not represented in the expression of culture that spews
out of our cities. The city mouse knows not of the country mouse and,
all to often, could not care less.

The problem with this is that the urban and, increasingly, suburban
expression of culture becomes self referent to the degree that it
blindly excludes a large and vital sector of the culture that it
pretends to explain.

Essentially, the city boys assign a null value to those who do not
share their experience and consign those of us folks who do not share
this confined version of reality - to the minor religion of Bubbaism.

This is a great tragedy for both parties.

In so far as America can be said to have a shared cultural experience,
its historical antecedents are in the hardscrabble world of the rural
and semi rural environs, rather than the allegedly more refined venues
of the great cities or, more recently and, with more effective damage,
the suburbs. To ignore this reality is to transgress reality itself.

Many of us who grew up in this country had fishing rods and guns as
common household implements that shared the same level of familiarity
and availability as shovels and corn brooms. In a very real sense,
they were part of the furniture of our lives.

To state that many of us countrified folk hunt and fish is to state
the obvious. To imply or infer that we must therefore be less
intelligent or are more lacking in refinement than our metropolitan
brethren is to misstate and misunderstand.

I would refer you back to Jefferson's ideal of the American. I would
ask you to hearken to the message of Teddy Roosevelt and his appeal to
"The Active Life".

Those who eschew hunting and fishing are not my enemy. Those who
insist that their values are superior to and must supersede the values
of those who do not share their view, to an exclusionary level, are
everyone's enemy.



Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

Tom Watson responds:

Those who eschew hunting and fishing are not my enemy. Those who
insist that their values are superior to and must supersede the values
of those who do not share their view, to an exclusionary level, are
everyone's enemy.

I agree. True Believers, whatever their beliefs, are dangerous.

Charlie Self

"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the
people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent
and sudden usurpations."
James Madison

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...

snip

To state that many of us countrified folk hunt and fish is to state
the obvious. To imply or infer that we must therefore be less
intelligent or are more lacking in refinement than our metropolitan
brethren is to misstate and misunderstand.

I would refer you back to Jefferson's ideal of the American. I would
ask you to hearken to the message of Teddy Roosevelt and his appeal to
"The Active Life".

Those who eschew hunting and fishing are not my enemy. Those who
insist that their values are superior to and must supersede the values
of those who do not share their view, to an exclusionary level, are
everyone's enemy.



Regards, Tom

Go get 'em Tom.

Reminds me of a Wall Street Journal TV commercial they were running oh, say,
3-4 years ago about the orphaned twins separated and adopted, one by a
family who hunted & fished, read Field & Stream, etc. The other was adopted
by a family who taught him to read what else? The Wall Street Journal, and
when they grew up he was a great financial success, while his brother still
lived @ home with his parents, still reading fishing magazines.

The whole concept really burned my A**, and I e-mailed them and let them
know it. Don't know if it made any impression or not, but helped MY blood
pressure!LOL
Nahmie

Nahmie responds:

Reminds me of a Wall Street Journal TV commercial they were running oh, say,
3-4 years ago about the orphaned twins separated and adopted, one by a
family who hunted & fished, read Field & Stream, etc. The other was adopted
by a family who taught him to read what else? The Wall Street Journal, and
when they grew up he was a great financial success, while his brother still
lived @ home with his parents, still reading fishing magazines.

The whole concept really burned my A**,

That kind of goofiness abounds. Do it my way and you're a super person. Do it
another way, and you're a failure (especially financial). My bias: I don't hunt
and fish. No real reason, except that growing up it didn't interest me, and now
my wheels are so bad, they wouldn't take me far enough into the woods to help.
But the best friend I've ever had is an avid shooter, hunter and was almost
world class in fly fishing (did some super fly tying to, back in the "old days"
when he augmented his freelance writing income tying flies for Abercrombie &
Fitch).

It is stupid to limit oneself because of such asinine differences when there is
even the possibility of other interests that coincide with exceptional
strength.

Charlie Self

"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the
people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent
and sudden usurpations."
James Madison

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
misc. snippage
My bias: I don't hunt
and fish. No real reason, except that growing up it didn't interest me,
and now
my wheels are so bad, they wouldn't take me far enough into the woods to
help.

This is a *bias*? I enjoyed both when younger, but was never what you would
call an avid hunter or fisher. Still enjoy fishing, but not as much, because
the best spots are too far & ground too rough. I'm now same as you, SWMBO
wanted to go to county fair, so I had to come up with $232 for new set of
batteries for my *Rascal* so I could get around the fair.

It is stupid to limit oneself because of such asinine differences when
there is
even the possibility of other interests that coincide with exceptional
strength.


Don't know about "limiting", but spent most of adult life maintaining large
scale mainframe EDP. My "outlet" was USNR Seabees one weekend/mo., 2wks./yr.
gettin' "down in the dirt" as an Equipment Operator. If it runs on diesel,
has BIG wheels or tracks, moves dirt, & makes dust, I'm happy! Sadly those
days are gone forever too. but that's life. Now I depend on *wood* dust when
I get the chance.
Nahmie

In article ,
leah says...
I agree. True Believers, whatever their beliefs, are dangerous.

Yeah. I grew up in Kentucky where "politics are the damndest" and there
was an old saying about electing crooks vs do-gooders. Something like "a
crook can only steal so much, there's no limit on what a do-gooder can
screw up".

I'm sure that's not a correct quote, but you get the idea :-).

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

Tom Watson wrote in message . ..
Those who
insist that their values are superior to and must supersede the values
of those who do not share their view, to an exclusionary level, are
everyone's enemy.



See, I *knew* Hillary Clinton was the enemy... I just couldn't put it
as eloquently as you did.

-Chris

The Wall Street Journal, and
when they grew up he was a great financial success, while his brother still
lived @ home with his parents, still reading fishing magazines.


Gee, my boys read hunting and fishing magazines as well as the Wall
Street Journal, Reader's Digest, Boy's Life, Wood, Discovery, National
Geographic, and a plethera of other magazines, as well as the classics
and even comic books! I wonder how they will turn out!!!

Indyrose

"Rose" wrote in message
m...
The Wall Street Journal, and
when they grew up he was a great financial success, while his
brother still
lived @ home with his parents, still reading fishing magazines.


Gee, my boys read hunting and fishing magazines as well as the Wall
Street Journal, Reader's Digest, Boy's Life, Wood, Discovery, National
Geographic, and a plethera of other magazines, as well as the classics
and even comic books! I wonder how they will turn out!!!

Indyrose


Probably better than the bunch of PMSing crybabies that get their
collective tit in a wringer whenever someone makes the slightest little
comment that bruises their fragile little egos. AKA 10% of the Wreck.

Tom Watson wrote:



Those who eschew hunting and fishing are not my enemy. Those who
insist that their values are superior to and must supersede the values
of those who do not share their view, to an exclusionary level, are
everyone's enemy.

Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

Tom,
That's an excellent comment. Is it yours origionally or a
quote? If yours, may I quote you?

It reminds me of the woman who was the spokesperson for
the Baltimore censorship board in the 1950s and 60s. She was
on the radio, television, and in print many times saying that she
most qualified to decide what we could see, read, or hear.
Her reason that she was the so well qualified? She was a
housewife and mother.
I was in junior high and high school during those days, but I
had enough brains to know that a good percentage of hookers and
strippers where mothers and home makers, so her reasoning did
not obtain.
Please note, before someone flames me: I've since traveled
much of the world and have met quite a few strippers and
"ladies of the evening" that I found to be quite religious and
moral. Morals and mores are two very different things.

ARM

Tom Watson wrote:

I would refer you back to Jefferson's ideal of the American. I would
ask you to hearken to the message of Teddy Roosevelt and his appeal to
"The Active Life".

Those who eschew hunting and fishing are not my enemy. Those who
insist that their values are superior to and must supersede the values
of those who do not share their view, to an exclusionary level, are
everyone's enemy.

Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

DOH!!!!
I just re-read the paragraph preceeding the one I triggered on.

Now that I see the source it's obvious T.R. was the kind of
man I would vote for.
ARM

He was a genius, that's for sure. Can't figure, save the party label, why
he isn't regarded as even the equal of his cousin as president.

"Alan McClure" wrote in message
...
Teddy Roosevelt and his appeal to
"The Active Life".

Those who eschew hunting and fishing are not my enemy. Those who
insist that their values are superior to and must supersede the values
of those who do not share their view, to an exclusionary level, are
everyone's enemy.

Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

DOH!!!!
I just re-read the paragraph preceeding the one I triggered on.

Now that I see the source it's obvious T.R. was the kind of
man I would vote for.
ARM

On 29 Jul 2003 08:45:00 GMT, leah (Charlie Self)
wrote:

....snip
But the best friend I've ever had is an avid shooter, hunter and was almost
world class in fly fishing (did some super fly tying to, back in the "old days"
when he augmented his freelance writing income tying flies for Abercrombie &
Fitch).

If the current Abercrombie and Fitch isn't a perfect example of what
Tom's origianal was illustrating, I don't know what is...

The current A&F sells nothing that cannot be used by urban-teens-with
too-much-money to adorn themselves with clothing that looks like it
used to be worn by someone who loved the outdoors before _they_ got
ahold of it.

True story...
The time: Just-before-Christmas, two years ago.
The place: The local Mall-for-the-self-absorbed.

My daughter tells me that what my teenaged son would probably
reeeeeely love for Christmas is a sweater from Abercrombie and Fitch.
Fine. I hate malls, but love my kid, so off I go to retail hell in
search of said sweater. Now, since I'm a GUY, I don't really shop all
that well, so I did what I always do-- I looked around at all the
manequins and grabbed one of the "I-always-wear-my-A&F-baseball-caps
with-the-frayed-brim-on-backwards" sales dweebs to set me up with the
clothes on the mannequin. Gave him my son's sizes and got ready to
unload the credit card on the counter, when the kid says:

(Are you ready? You need to be sitting for this...)

"Sir, we don't actchowally haaave those clothes."

I swear to God, I am not making this up. I asked;
"What do you _MEAN?_ How can you _not_ have the clothes you're
advertising on your displays???"

He looked at me like I was from the land-of-the-tragically-unhip, and
informed me that "Corporate has someone dress all the mannequins, so
that we have a consistant image. We don't necessarily have the
clothes we show on the mannequins."

I looked at him like he was from the land-of-the-soon-to-be-unemployed
and informed him since I was IN marketing, I'd love to inform the
manager that I was NOT pleased to be duped into entering their store
for what turned out to be nothing more or less than false advertising.

The fact that he used the word "corporate" in a sentence should have
been a clue... He _was_ the manager.

Like lathes, I'm telling you,
Mssrs. A&F must be spinning in their graves like lathes.

Michael Baglio
(who now shops exclusively at the tragically un-hip Land's End.com)
Chapel Hill

Michael Baglio relates:

...snip
But the best friend I've ever had is an avid shooter, hunter and was almost
world class in fly fishing (did some super fly tying to, back in the "old
days"
when he augmented his freelance writing income tying flies for Abercrombie &
Fitch).

If the current Abercrombie and Fitch isn't a perfect example of what
Tom's origianal was illustrating, I don't know what is...

The current A&F sells nothing that cannot be used by urban-teens-with
too-much-money to adorn themselves with clothing that looks like it
used to be worn by someone who loved the outdoors before _they_ got
ahold of it.

True story...
The time: Just-before-Christmas, two years ago.
The place: The local Mall-for-the-self-absorbed.

snip of funny tale

Yeah, well...something like 25 years ago, I moved from NY to VA, and Don moved
from NY to Utah. Something like 8-10 years after that, he was no longer fly
tieing for A&F, and a few years after that, I started getting their yuppified
calendars.

Weird transition.

As I recall, there was an A&F bankruptcy in the middle of all this, though that
may be failing brain cells. My guess is they resurrected in the largest market
arena they could identify. Pity.


Charlie Self

"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child."
Dan Quayle

Talk about weird transitions:

years after that, he was no longer fly
tieing for A&F, and a few years after that, I started getting their yuppified
calendars.

Weird transition.

That's supposed to be catalogs, not calendars.

Charlie Self

"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child."
Dan Quayle

Sounds like the old Soviet Union. Or present Cuba.

Once spent several minutes in line at a store on the Arbat, listening to the
saleschick "educating" some poor bugger newly arrived from central Asia in
the same reality. Clincher was when she told him that the reason they had a
full display even with little inventory was because of the number of foreign
tourists who visited the store.

I tried to hide my Japanese camera as I presented my slip and collected my
10-ruble hat. May have snickered a bit, though.

"Michael Baglio" wrote in message
...
My daughter tells me that what my teenaged son would probably
reeeeeely love for Christmas is a sweater from Abercrombie and Fitch.
Fine. I hate malls, but love my kid, so off I go to retail hell in
search of said sweater. Now, since I'm a GUY, I don't really shop all
that well, so I did what I always do-- I looked around at all the
manequins and grabbed one of the "I-always-wear-my-A&F-baseball-caps
with-the-frayed-brim-on-backwards" sales dweebs to set me up with the
clothes on the mannequin. Gave him my son's sizes and got ready to
unload the credit card on the counter, when the kid says:

(Are you ready? You need to be sitting for this...)

"Sir, we don't actchowally haaave those clothes."

I swear to God, I am not making this up. I asked;
"What do you _MEAN?_ How can you _not_ have the clothes you're
advertising on your displays???"

He looked at me like I was from the land-of-the-tragically-unhip, and
informed me that "Corporate has someone dress all the mannequins, so
that we have a consistant image. We don't necessarily have the
clothes we show on the mannequins."

"Michael Baglio" wrote in message
...
On 29 Jul 2003 08:45:00 GMT, leah (Charlie Self)
wrote:
If the current Abercrombie and Fitch isn't a perfect example of what
Tom's origianal was illustrating, I don't know what is...

The current A&F sells nothing that cannot be used by urban-teens-with
...

A&F used to be a great store. Bought all my Kahki's from them. Damn - they
would last *years*. Usually my waist busted the fit long before any seams
would give or the fabric wear thru.

So, like you, I don't shop there anymore.

Like lathes, I'm telling you,
Mssrs. A&F must be spinning in their graves like lathes.

But, no denying their success. I think the shareholders must be happy.