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#1
Posted to alt.home.repair
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
We just got our common asphalt driveway "sealed" where the asphalt company
was a family who didn't finish the job (they didn't seal the cracks for example). We can't get them to come back, so we've stopped the checks we could stop. They stole some of our tools. And now we wonder if they used "quality" materials (probably not - but how can we tell?) We contracted them to do 3 things  every 5 years is our goal)1. Shovel the drainage clear 2. Seal cracks 3. Seal the asphalt How can we tell if they did a good job or used good materials? Here are some pictures. They didn't expose the paved drainage slope (we dug in 2' more). https://s26.postimg.org/6na637bxl/001_seal.jp We exposed this 2-foot drainage slant - how important is this slope? https://s26.postimg.org/9in9a2fxl/002_seal.jpg How can we tell if this "slurry" coat is good stuff? https://s26.postimg.org/6d2njuxbd/003_seal.jpg In most places, the cracks were not sealed (and we can't get them back!) https://s26.postimg.org/dhp26mtyh/004_seal.jpg Here's a rough berm section. https://s26.postimg.org/6tsgk1ag9/005_seal.jpg Some of the cracks are two inches wide and ten inches deep. https://s26.postimg.org/vgxi92z3d/006_seal.jpg The only place they went to the real edge was where WE dug it out. https://s26.postimg.org/56lbz7lt5/007_seal.jpg 008_seal.jpg They didn't scrape these old flakes off first (we did). https://s26.postimg.org/i1tblz12h/008_seal.jpg 009_seal.jpg But mainly we are upset about these unpatched cracks. https://s26.postimg.org/y2v3qfdpl/009_seal.jpg 010_seal.jpg Some of the cracks are a foot deep. https://s26.postimg.org/qbedrv9k9/010_seal.jpg 011_seal.jpg How can we tell if this "slurry" is quality material? https://s26.postimg.org/73r8v9r8p/011_seal.jpg 012_seal.jpg Does it matter they didn't expose the slanted drainage? https://s26.postimg.org/qk7d41wyx/012_seal.jpg 013_seal.jpg Some cracks seem sealed while others seem not sealed. https://s26.postimg.org/57zv6dd0p/013_seal.jpg 014_seal.jpg In some places, they just stopped midcrack with the seal. https://s26.postimg.org/s86iipauh/014_seal.jpg 015_seal.jpg How can we tell if this crack seal is done right? https://s26.postimg.org/nxrun45rd/015_seal.jpg 016_seal.jpg Is there any way to tell if the seal is good material? https://s26.postimg.org/yw345aucp/016_seal.jpg 017_seal.jpg In the future, is it possible to seal cracks ourselves? https://s26.postimg.org/oxi5itkx5/017_seal.jpg 018_seal.jpg One odd thing is these scratches they put in the "seal"? https://s26.postimg.org/4ourx3lm1/018_seal.jpg 019_seal.jpg How do we know the seal is done right? https://s26.postimg.org/crsy8f67d/019_seal.jpg |
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#2
Posted to alt.home.repair
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
We just got our common asphalt driveway "sealed" where the asphalt company was a family who didn't finish the job (they didn't seal the cracks for example). We can't get them to come back, so we've stopped the checks we could stop. They stole some of our tools. And now we wonder if they used "quality" materials (probably not - but how can we tell?) We contracted them to do 3 things every 5 years is our goal)1. Shovel the drainage clear 2. Seal cracks 3. Seal the asphalt How can we tell if they did a good job or used good materials? Here are some pictures. snip Time will tell ... |
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#3
Posted to alt.home.repair
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
On 8/30/17 2:55 AM, June Bug wrote:
We just got our common asphalt driveway "sealed" where the asphalt company was a family who didn't finish the job (they didn't seal the cracks for example). We can't get them to come back, so we've stopped the checks we could stop. They stole some of our tools. And now we wonder if they used "quality" materials (probably not - but how can we tell?) We contracted them to do 3 things every 5 years is our goal)1. Shovel the drainage clear 2. Seal cracks 3. Seal the asphalt How can we tell if they did a good job or used good materials? Here are some pictures. They didn't expose the paved drainage slope (we dug in 2' more). https://s26.postimg.org/6na637bxl/001_seal.jp We exposed this 2-foot drainage slant - how important is this slope? https://s26.postimg.org/9in9a2fxl/002_seal.jpg How can we tell if this "slurry" coat is good stuff? https://s26.postimg.org/6d2njuxbd/003_seal.jpg In most places, the cracks were not sealed (and we can't get them back!) https://s26.postimg.org/dhp26mtyh/004_seal.jpg Here's a rough berm section. https://s26.postimg.org/6tsgk1ag9/005_seal.jpg Some of the cracks are two inches wide and ten inches deep. https://s26.postimg.org/vgxi92z3d/006_seal.jpg The only place they went to the real edge was where WE dug it out. https://s26.postimg.org/56lbz7lt5/007_seal.jpg 008_seal.jpg They didn't scrape these old flakes off first (we did). https://s26.postimg.org/i1tblz12h/008_seal.jpg 009_seal.jpg But mainly we are upset about these unpatched cracks. https://s26.postimg.org/y2v3qfdpl/009_seal.jpg 010_seal.jpg Some of the cracks are a foot deep. https://s26.postimg.org/qbedrv9k9/010_seal.jpg 011_seal.jpg How can we tell if this "slurry" is quality material? https://s26.postimg.org/73r8v9r8p/011_seal.jpg 012_seal.jpg Does it matter they didn't expose the slanted drainage? https://s26.postimg.org/qk7d41wyx/012_seal.jpg 013_seal.jpg Some cracks seem sealed while others seem not sealed. https://s26.postimg.org/57zv6dd0p/013_seal.jpg 014_seal.jpg In some places, they just stopped midcrack with the seal. https://s26.postimg.org/s86iipauh/014_seal.jpg 015_seal.jpg How can we tell if this crack seal is done right? https://s26.postimg.org/nxrun45rd/015_seal.jpg 016_seal.jpg Is there any way to tell if the seal is good material? https://s26.postimg.org/yw345aucp/016_seal.jpg 017_seal.jpg In the future, is it possible to seal cracks ourselves? https://s26.postimg.org/oxi5itkx5/017_seal.jpg 018_seal.jpg One odd thing is these scratches they put in the "seal"? https://s26.postimg.org/4ourx3lm1/018_seal.jpg 019_seal.jpg How do we know the seal is done right? https://s26.postimg.org/crsy8f67d/019_seal.jpg How can we help you if you don't post anywhere near enough pictures? -- I don't lie to myself, and I don't hold on to a loser. |
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#4
Posted to alt.home.repair
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
On 8/30/2017 2:55 AM, June Bug wrote:
We just got our common asphalt driveway "sealed" where the asphalt company was a family who didn't finish the job (they didn't seal the cracks for example). We can't get them to come back, so we've stopped the checks we could stop. They stole some of our tools. And now we wonder if they used "quality" materials (probably not - but how can we tell?) We contracted them to do 3 things every 5 years is our goal)1. Shovel the drainage clear 2. Seal cracks 3. Seal the asphalt How can we tell if they did a good job or used good materials? From the photos, it looks like a crappy job. There are a lot of sleazy Gypsy outfits going doo to door and this looks like what you'd expect from them. Find a good local sealer that has been around a few years. |
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#5
Posted to alt.home.repair
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 1:55:18 AM UTC-5, June Bug wrote:
We just got our common asphalt driveway "sealed" where the asphalt company was a family who didn't finish the job (they didn't seal the cracks for example). We can't get them to come back, so we've stopped the checks we could stop. They stole some of our tools. And now we wonder if they used "quality" materials (probably not - but how can we tell?) We contracted them to do 3 things every 5 years is our goal)1. Shovel the drainage clear 2. Seal cracks 3. Seal the asphalt How can we tell if they did a good job or used good materials? Here are some pictures. They didn't expose the paved drainage slope (we dug in 2' more). https://s26.postimg.org/6na637bxl/001_seal.jp We exposed this 2-foot drainage slant - how important is this slope? https://s26.postimg.org/9in9a2fxl/002_seal.jpg How can we tell if this "slurry" coat is good stuff? https://s26.postimg.org/6d2njuxbd/003_seal.jpg In most places, the cracks were not sealed (and we can't get them back!) https://s26.postimg.org/dhp26mtyh/004_seal.jpg Here's a rough berm section. https://s26.postimg.org/6tsgk1ag9/005_seal.jpg Some of the cracks are two inches wide and ten inches deep. https://s26.postimg.org/vgxi92z3d/006_seal.jpg The only place they went to the real edge was where WE dug it out. https://s26.postimg.org/56lbz7lt5/007_seal.jpg 008_seal.jpg They didn't scrape these old flakes off first (we did). https://s26.postimg.org/i1tblz12h/008_seal.jpg 009_seal.jpg But mainly we are upset about these unpatched cracks. https://s26.postimg.org/y2v3qfdpl/009_seal.jpg 010_seal.jpg Some of the cracks are a foot deep. https://s26.postimg.org/qbedrv9k9/010_seal.jpg 011_seal.jpg How can we tell if this "slurry" is quality material? https://s26.postimg.org/73r8v9r8p/011_seal.jpg 012_seal.jpg Does it matter they didn't expose the slanted drainage? https://s26.postimg.org/qk7d41wyx/012_seal.jpg 013_seal.jpg Some cracks seem sealed while others seem not sealed. https://s26.postimg.org/57zv6dd0p/013_seal.jpg 014_seal.jpg In some places, they just stopped midcrack with the seal. https://s26.postimg.org/s86iipauh/014_seal.jpg 015_seal.jpg How can we tell if this crack seal is done right? https://s26.postimg.org/nxrun45rd/015_seal.jpg 016_seal.jpg Is there any way to tell if the seal is good material? https://s26.postimg.org/yw345aucp/016_seal.jpg 017_seal.jpg In the future, is it possible to seal cracks ourselves? https://s26.postimg.org/oxi5itkx5/017_seal.jpg 018_seal.jpg One odd thing is these scratches they put in the "seal"? https://s26.postimg.org/4ourx3lm1/018_seal.jpg 019_seal.jpg How do we know the seal is done right? https://s26.postimg.org/crsy8f67d/019_seal.jpg You have been taken really well. Didn't you watch while the work was being done???? |
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#7
Posted to alt.home.repair
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 2:55:18 AM UTC-4, June Bug wrote:
We just got our common asphalt driveway "sealed" where the asphalt company was a family who didn't finish the job (they didn't seal the cracks for example). We can't get them to come back, so we've stopped the checks we could stop. Checks? How many checks were there? Normally, a reputable company doing this would just want payment at the end. They stole some of our tools. And now we wonder if they used "quality" materials (probably not - but how can we tell?) And you want them to come back? Short of sending a sample to some lab for testing, IDK of any way to tell what exactly they used. If you DIY or hire a handyman where you supply the material, you know what you bought. If it's a reputable company, you generally rely on them being honest and telling you what it is if you ask. But since they generally show up with a truck that's loaded with the stuff in bulk, you don't know for sure. We contracted them to do 3 things every 5 years is our goal)1. Shovel the drainage clear 2. Seal cracks 3. Seal the asphalt How can we tell if they did a good job or used good materials? Here are some pictures. It doesn't look like a good job to me and from all of the above, I'd bet it's cheap material. They didn't expose the paved drainage slope (we dug in 2' more). https://s26.postimg.org/6na637bxl/001_seal.jp We exposed this 2-foot drainage slant - how important is this slope? https://s26.postimg.org/9in9a2fxl/002_seal.jpg How can we tell if this "slurry" coat is good stuff? https://s26.postimg.org/6d2njuxbd/003_seal.jpg In most places, the cracks were not sealed (and we can't get them back!) https://s26.postimg.org/dhp26mtyh/004_seal.jpg Then why did you pay them? Here's a rough berm section. https://s26.postimg.org/6tsgk1ag9/005_seal.jpg Some of the cracks are two inches wide and ten inches deep. https://s26.postimg.org/vgxi92z3d/006_seal.jpg ARe you sure you mean deep and not long? The only place they went to the real edge was where WE dug it out. https://s26.postimg.org/56lbz7lt5/007_seal.jpg 008_seal.jpg They didn't scrape these old flakes off first (we did). https://s26.postimg.org/i1tblz12h/008_seal.jpg 009_seal.jpg But mainly we are upset about these unpatched cracks. https://s26.postimg.org/y2v3qfdpl/009_seal.jpg 010_seal.jpg Some of the cracks are a foot deep. https://s26.postimg.org/qbedrv9k9/010_seal.jpg 011_seal.jpg How can we tell if this "slurry" is quality material? https://s26.postimg.org/73r8v9r8p/011_seal.jpg 012_seal.jpg Does it matter they didn't expose the slanted drainage? https://s26.postimg.org/qk7d41wyx/012_seal.jpg 013_seal.jpg Some cracks seem sealed while others seem not sealed. https://s26.postimg.org/57zv6dd0p/013_seal.jpg 014_seal.jpg In some places, they just stopped midcrack with the seal. https://s26.postimg.org/s86iipauh/014_seal.jpg 015_seal.jpg How can we tell if this crack seal is done right? https://s26.postimg.org/nxrun45rd/015_seal.jpg You must be kidding us now. 016_seal.jpg Is there any way to tell if the seal is good material? https://s26.postimg.org/yw345aucp/016_seal.jpg 017_seal.jpg In the future, is it possible to seal cracks ourselves? https://s26.postimg.org/oxi5itkx5/017_seal.jpg Yes, there are a variety of products sold and available at the ususal building supply type stores. 018_seal.jpg One odd thing is these scratches they put in the "seal"? https://s26.postimg.org/4ourx3lm1/018_seal.jpg 019_seal.jpg How do we know the seal is done right? https://s26.postimg.org/crsy8f67d/019_seal.jpg It wasn't. How old is the asphalt? Those cracks would seem to indicate to me that the asphalt itself wasn't done right. It doesn't look 25 years old and the way it's cracking isn't typical of what I see in old asphalt. Done right, it usually will alligator, with much smaller cracking when it's nearing end of life. This has large cracks running over long distances. That looks to me like a sign that it was not done over a proper base and/or it's not thick enough. But then I can't see the whole thing either. IDK how large a job this was or how much you paid them, but you're probably stuck at this point. Even if you can find them, sue them, win, shysters are usually smart and have no assets in their name, so you can't collect. Assuming it's just a few hundred bucks that you're out, I'd send them a final letter, both regular mail and certified, telling them that if they don't respond in 10 days, you're going to get someone else to fix it. In the future, check people out before giving them the business. Ask to see some of their recent work. Go ring the doorbell and ask what they think. Get quotes from several vendors. And don't pick the one that wants money upfront for a job like this. |
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#8
Posted to alt.home.repair
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
The date is 30/08/2017 08:14
We can't get them to come back, so we've stopped the checks we could stop. Checks? How many checks were there? Normally, a reputable company doing this would just want payment at the end. This is a home repair newsgroup so let's stay out of legal things if we can because the question is really one of our ignorance of what matters when protecting the surface of a drive that is shared by others. We do this slurry every five years and I have been here for two of them and we never had a problem until now and all we want to know is technical facts about what you can "see" of the "quality" of their work. I realize you only have pictures, but what else can I tell you. I'm not the one who contracted and I don't want to get into our compromises as you know that you need to keep neighbors happy when you all share a common asset. So I am just asking from a home-repair standpoint for you to give me information so I am not stupid when I go to the meeting about it next week. And you want them to come back? Short of sending a sample to some lab for testing, IDK of any way to tell what exactly they used. I was afraid of that. If you DIY or hire a handyman where you supply the material, you know what you bought. If it's a reputable company, you generally rely on them being honest and telling you what it is if you ask. But since they generally show up with a truck that's loaded with the stuff in bulk, you don't know for sure. I was afraid of that. It doesn't look like a good job to me and from all of the above, I'd bet it's cheap material. But what do you use to make that judgment? That is the home-repair question. It's pretty clear to me the cracks weren't filled. It's pretty clear to me that the road wasn't fully shoveled. But what can you tell, from the pictures, of the "slurry"? Then why did you pay them? Let's stay out of the money issue because it's not a home-repair problem and we did hold back some checks so it's really only a quuestion of how to tell quality work. But specifics. Not like "it looks like crap" because anyone can say that and I'd agree but I can't say if they all are supposed to look like crap or not. Specifically, looks don't mean anything if, for example, you can use paint instead of slurry and you can make the paint look like a mona lisa but it won't last even if it looks like a piece of art. So my question is one of specifics, where I already know about the cracks and the shoveling but not the slurry. Some of the cracks are two inches wide and ten inches deep. https://s26.postimg.org/vgxi92z3d/006_seal.jpg ARe you sure you mean deep and not long? Good observation. I mean deep. I stuck a stick in there and there was no resistance for MORE than 10 inches in some spots (other spots resisted at 1 and 2 inches). I think what is happening is that the drainage is bad and water collects and finds its way DOWN the cracks, hence washing out the underlayment under the road. So filling the cracks is critical, as was fixing the drainage. One question I have is we have discussed taking the remaining uncashed checks and just buying the stuff and having the neighborhood teens finish the job. Is that feasible in that what do you recommend we buy from Home Depot, Lowes, Ace, by way of MATERIALS (not tools) but what would you use to fill the cracks. I watched videos all last night and there are lots of crack-filling methods, and even a few pothole methods. Advice from someone who has done it would be helpful as to materials to buy with the remaining uncashed checks. How can we tell if this crack seal is done right? https://s26.postimg.org/nxrun45rd/015_seal.jpg You must be kidding us now. Well - they did seal most of the cracks. I can't tell if the "seal" is good but they did cover them first with something that is about 6 inches wide and a different black than the "slurry" on top. All I'm asking is if _that_ crack repair is done well. And how you can tell. Yes, there are a variety of products sold and available at the ususal building supply type stores. After posting, I watched a lot of youtube videos. Most people are doing puny driveways of only a few hundred feet long. This drive is almost a half mile, so it may make a big difference since it's twice the width of a typical driveway and longer than scores of them put end to end. I should tell you that I am not the one making the decisions but I will always go with the flow because you need good neighbors more than you need to be right. I just want to know what's right. How do we know the seal is done right? https://s26.postimg.org/crsy8f67d/019_seal.jpg It wasn't. That's not helpful. I know you're _trying_ to be helpful but think about what will happen if I tell the neighbor who set this up that it's not done right. Then he asks me why. And I say, it's just not. That's not a helpful answer without a specific. I know you are handicapped by the fact that you can't touch it, but I can touch it. What can I touch or snap a photo of that will help you be helpful to me by providing specifics of what you see? How old is the asphalt? Good question. It was put in during the late sixties, early seventies. It has been sealed every five years. Those cracks would seem to indicate to me that the asphalt itself wasn't done right. It doesn't look 25 years old and the way it's cracking isn't typical of what I see in old asphalt. It's probably only about 45 years old, as far as anyone knows. The old timer recently died so someone else took over the maintenance task and that's OK with me because I can't do it. I just show up to the meeting and try to keep everyone happy as good neighbors are more important than little things. But I would love to know how to tell if the slurry is "good stuff". Done right, it usually will alligator, with much smaller cracking when it's nearing end of life. This has large cracks running over long distances. That looks to me like a sign that it was not done over a proper base and/or it's not thick enough. But then I can't see the whole thing either. I think the larger cracks are where the water pools, which is a problem of drainage and not really the slurry's fault. IDK how large a job this was or how much you paid them, but you're probably stuck at this point. I'm not worried about the money. We held back two checks and stopped a third. This isn't a legal group anyway. I'm going to do whatever everyone decides to do anyway. I just want to know from a home-repair standpoint what you would do and how you can tell if what was done was done right. My thought, but ignorant I admit I am, but my thought is we take the remaining checks and buy "something" and with that something we hire some neighborhood teens and "they" finish the job. But what needs to be done? 1. Shovel the two feet of road to get better drainage (that's easy). 2. Fill the cracks (but what do people suggest) And we'd probably leave it at that until five years from now comes up. I saw videos of people laying plastic-covered 10-foot long tubes of goop and then using a propane burner, which will never work because it would take from now until the end of time to do a half mile of road that way. I also saw videos of people using caulking guns to fill the cracks, and again, that's like painting a house with a toothbrush. It would work but it's not ever going to happen. Then I saw videos of people "pouring" the goop into the cracks, which seems to me is fast enough to be feasible - but is that method a good one in the end? Really, I'm just asking what you recommend not from a financial or legal standpoint, but from a how to fix it standpoint. Even if you can find them, sue them, win, shysters are usually smart and have no assets in their name, so you can't collect. Assuming it's just a few hundred bucks that you're out, I'd send them a final letter, both regular mail and certified, telling them that if they don't respond in 10 days, you're going to get someone else to fix it. This isn't a legal group so I don't really expect legal advice and we're not worried anyway because we have three of 8 checks which is fine with us. I am not the one organizing this anyway. I just want to have a solution to suggest. For example, would you buy the "goop" online or at Home Depot or at Lowes or at Ace? In the future, check people out before giving them the business. Ask to see some of their recent work. Go ring the doorbell and ask what they think. Get quotes from several vendors. And don't pick the one that wants money upfront for a job like this. I didn't set this up and we're actually not worried about the money because we held and stopped some checks so this question isn't a money or legal question. Otherwise I would have given you more detail on the money and legal side of the picture (where the detail is enormous already). I just want to know a few critical things which aren't answered yet which are my fault for not asking directly. MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION: How is that 2-foot slanted drainage supposed to work? The pavers told me it's supposed to be "protected" under dirt but I do not believe a word they said. I think it's supposed to be open to the air. But why is it a 45-degree slant for two feet? Is that normal for pavement? Is it critical for the runoff? (The water runs off into big 2 or 3-foot wide drains under the drive.) SECOND MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION: How would you fill the cracks in a drive that is about a half mile long? (If you say caulking gun or tubes of goop and then propane burner, I will have to tell you that's not feasible, for example.) TIA!!!!!!! |
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#9
Posted to alt.home.repair
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
The date is 30/08/2017 08:10
are they real contractors with a contractors license? Do they need to be in your jurisdiction? Have you paid them? What recourse do you have with various authorities, such as the contractors licensing board? None of us are the type to sue so that's not something we will ever do. We all gave our checks ahead of time to one of the people on the drive, who is withholding two of the checks, and a third put her check on hold. We're not asking a legal question of this newsgroup anyway. I know a picture is all I have to show you, and I may not have shown you enough for you to tell - but we just want to know your observations of the "quality". Just saying "crappy" won't teach us anything. What exactly is crappy? BTW, in the future, we wonder if we have to do it ourselves. Is it something our teenager boys can be taught to do? Do they need special equipment or just brushes and shovels? |
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#10
Posted to alt.home.repair
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
The date is 30/08/2017 08:04
You have been taken really well. Didn't you watch while the work was being done???? We don't know what to look for. We see they didn't shovel the sides to the edge of the drainage "slant" but the previous crew five years ago (and five years before them) didn't shovel at all. We only found out about the fact that two feet of "drive" went beyond the side of the road when we dug those test tunnels. The cracks are only half done in places so one question we have is how "flush" is a crack repair supposed to be when the crack starts at about 1/4 to 2 inches wide? Is it supposed to be fully flush? And how can you tell if the slurry is "good" stuff? We still need to fill the cracks so would you go buy the "goop" at Home Depot and just drip it into the cracks and be done with it? |
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#11
Posted to alt.home.repair
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
On 8/30/2017 12:11 PM, June Bug wrote:
The date is 30/08/2017 08:04 You have been taken really well. Didn't you watch while the work was being done???? We don't know what to look for. We see they didn't shovel the sides to the edge of the drainage "slant" but the previous crew five years ago (and five years before them) didn't shovel at all. We only found out about the fact that two feet of "drive" went beyond the side of the road when we dug those test tunnels. The cracks are only half done in places so one question we have is how "flush" is a crack repair supposed to be when the crack starts at about 1/4 to 2 inches wide? Is it supposed to be fully flush? And how can you tell if the slurry is "good" stuff? We still need to fill the cracks so would you go buy the "goop" at Home Depot and just drip it into the cracks and be done with it? Yes, you can buy stuff at HD and fill them. Given that you have cracks 13" deep, you may be in for serious problems in the next year or two and should start saving for a complete new paving job. Meantime, you can buy filler and sealer and have the teenagers do the work. It is heavy stuff but does not require a lot of skill. |
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#12
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
On 8/30/2017 9:10 AM, June Bug wrote:
The date is 30/08/2017 08:10 are they real contractors with a contractors license? Do they need to be in your jurisdiction? Have you paid them? What recourse do you have with various authorities, such as the contractors licensing board? None of us are the type to sue so that's not something we will ever do. We all gave our checks ahead of time to one of the people on the drive, who is withholding two of the checks, and a third put her check on hold. We're not asking a legal question of this newsgroup anyway. sometimes responses prove useful for others. |
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#13
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 12:10:54 PM UTC-4, June Bug wrote:
The date is 30/08/2017 08:10 are they real contractors with a contractors license? Do they need to be in your jurisdiction? Have you paid them? What recourse do you have with various authorities, such as the contractors licensing board? None of us are the type to sue so that's not something we will ever do. From what I've seen so far, probably not worth it anyway. These guys are usually judgment proof. How much did you pay them and how much was it supposed to cost? We all gave our checks ahead of time to one of the people on the drive, who is withholding two of the checks, and a third put her check on hold. So this is some kind of group thing? Not sure what exactly this means, who exactly is withholding what. We're not asking a legal question of this newsgroup anyway. I know a picture is all I have to show you, and I may not have shown you enough for you to tell - but we just want to know your observations of the "quality". Just saying "crappy" won't teach us anything. What exactly is crappy? I think you already know or you wouldn't be here. You have big, obvious cracks that were never filled for example. I'm sure there are other seal coating examples in your area, neighbors, parking lots, where you can see what a good job looks like. Was there a written contract that details what was to be done and for how much? BTW, in the future, we wonder if we have to do it ourselves. Is it something our teenager boys can be taught to do? Do they need special equipment or just brushes and shovels? It's not hard to do, you can buy the supplies at the typical building supply centers. I'm sure there are plenty of videos and DIY stuff on the internet. If there is no patching, just some cracks, all you need is an applicator brush/squeegee, a good broom. It helps if you have an air compressor to blow out the cracks. But since you don't have experience, don't know what it should look like, expecting teenagers with no experience either to do the job is probably another mistake. |
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#14
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
On 2017-08-30 12:10 PM, June Bug wrote:
The date is 30/08/2017 08:14 We can't get them to come back, so we've stopped the checks we could stop. Checks? How many checks were there? Normally, a reputable company doing this would just want payment at the end. This is a home repair newsgroup so let's stay out of legal things if we can because the question is really one of our ignorance of what matters when protecting the surface of a drive that is shared by others. We do this slurry every five years and I have been here for two of them and we never had a problem until now and all we want to know is technical facts about what you can "see" of the "quality" of their work. I realize you only have pictures, but what else can I tell you. I'm not the one who contracted and I don't want to get into our compromises as you know that you need to keep neighbors happy when you all share a common asset. So I am just asking from a home-repair standpoint for you to give me information so I am not stupid when I go to the meeting about it next week. And you want them to come back? Short of sending a sample to some lab for testing, IDK of any way to tell what exactly they used. I was afraid of that. If you DIY or hire a handyman where you supply the material, you know what you bought. If it's a reputable company, you generally rely on them being honest and telling you what it is if you ask. But since they generally show up with a truck that's loaded with the stuff in bulk, you don't know for sure. I was afraid of that. It doesn't look like a good job to me and from all of the above, I'd bet it's cheap material. But what do you use to make that judgment? That is the home-repair question. It's pretty clear to me the cracks weren't filled. It's pretty clear to me that the road wasn't fully shoveled. But what can you tell, from the pictures, of the "slurry"? Then why did you pay them? Let's stay out of the money issue because it's not a home-repair problem and we did hold back some checks so it's really only a quuestion of how to tell quality work. But specifics. Not like "it looks like crap" because anyone can say that and I'd agree but I can't say if they all are supposed to look like crap or not. Specifically, looks don't mean anything if, for example, you can use paint instead of slurry and you can make the paint look like a mona lisa but it won't last even if it looks like a piece of art. So my question is one of specifics, where I already know about the cracks and the shoveling but not the slurry. Some of the cracks are two inches wide and ten inches deep. https://s26.postimg.org/vgxi92z3d/006_seal.jpg ARe you sure you mean deep and not long? Good observation. I mean deep. I stuck a stick in there and there was no resistance for MORE than 10 inches in some spots (other spots resisted at 1 and 2 inches). I think what is happening is that the drainage is bad and water collects and finds its way DOWN the cracks, hence washing out the underlayment under the road. So filling the cracks is critical, as was fixing the drainage. One question I have is we have discussed taking the remaining uncashed checks and just buying the stuff and having the neighborhood teens finish the job. Is that feasible in that what do you recommend we buy from Home Depot, Lowes, Ace, by way of MATERIALS (not tools) but what would you use to fill the cracks. I watched videos all last night and there are lots of crack-filling methods, and even a few pothole methods. Advice from someone who has done it would be helpful as to materials to buy with the remaining uncashed checks. How can we tell if this crack seal is done right? https://s26.postimg.org/nxrun45rd/015_seal.jpg You must be kidding us now. Well - they did seal most of the cracks. I can't tell if the "seal" is good but they did cover them first with something that is about 6 inches wide and a different black than the "slurry" on top. All I'm asking is if _that_ crack repair is done well. And how you can tell. Yes, there are a variety of products sold and available at the ususal building supply type stores. After posting, I watched a lot of youtube videos. Most people are doing puny driveways of only a few hundred feet long. This drive is almost a half mile, so it may make a big difference since it's twice the width of a typical driveway and longer than scores of them put end to end. I should tell you that I am not the one making the decisions but I will always go with the flow because you need good neighbors more than you need to be right. I just want to know what's right. How do we know the seal is done right? https://s26.postimg.org/crsy8f67d/019_seal.jpg It wasn't. That's not helpful. I know you're _trying_ to be helpful but think about what will happen if I tell the neighbor who set this up that it's not done right. Then he asks me why. And I say, it's just not. That's not a helpful answer without a specific. I know you are handicapped by the fact that you can't touch it, but I can touch it. What can I touch or snap a photo of that will help you be helpful to me by providing specifics of what you see? How old is the asphalt? Good question. It was put in during the late sixties, early seventies. It has been sealed every five years. Those cracks would seem to indicate to me that the asphalt itself wasn't done right. It doesn't look 25 years old and the way it's cracking isn't typical of what I see in old asphalt. It's probably only about 45 years old, as far as anyone knows. The old timer recently died so someone else took over the maintenance task and that's OK with me because I can't do it. I just show up to the meeting and try to keep everyone happy as good neighbors are more important than little things. But I would love to know how to tell if the slurry is "good stuff". Done right, it usually will alligator, with much smaller cracking when it's nearing end of life. This has large cracks running over long distances. That looks to me like a sign that it was not done over a proper base and/or it's not thick enough. But then I can't see the whole thing either. I think the larger cracks are where the water pools, which is a problem of drainage and not really the slurry's fault. IDK how large a job this was or how much you paid them, but you're probably stuck at this point. I'm not worried about the money. We held back two checks and stopped a third. This isn't a legal group anyway. I'm going to do whatever everyone decides to do anyway. I just want to know from a home-repair standpoint what you would do and how you can tell if what was done was done right. My thought, but ignorant I admit I am, but my thought is we take the remaining checks and buy "something" and with that something we hire some neighborhood teens and "they" finish the job. But what needs to be done? 1. Shovel the two feet of road to get better drainage (that's easy). 2. Fill the cracks (but what do people suggest) And we'd probably leave it at that until five years from now comes up. I saw videos of people laying plastic-covered 10-foot long tubes of goop and then using a propane burner, which will never work because it would take from now until the end of time to do a half mile of road that way. I also saw videos of people using caulking guns to fill the cracks, and again, that's like painting a house with a toothbrush. It would work but it's not ever going to happen. Then I saw videos of people "pouring" the goop into the cracks, which seems to me is fast enough to be feasible - but is that method a good one in the end? Really, I'm just asking what you recommend not from a financial or legal standpoint, but from a how to fix it standpoint. Even if you can find them, sue them, win, shysters are usually smart and have no assets in their name, so you can't collect. Assuming it's just a few hundred bucks that you're out, I'd send them a final letter, both regular mail and certified, telling them that if they don't respond in 10 days, you're going to get someone else to fix it. This isn't a legal group so I don't really expect legal advice and we're not worried anyway because we have three of 8 checks which is fine with us. I am not the one organizing this anyway. I just want to have a solution to suggest. For example, would you buy the "goop" online or at Home Depot or at Lowes or at Ace? In the future, check people out before giving them the business. Ask to see some of their recent work. Go ring the doorbell and ask what they think. Get quotes from several vendors. And don't pick the one that wants money upfront for a job like this. I didn't set this up and we're actually not worried about the money because we held and stopped some checks so this question isn't a money or legal question. Otherwise I would have given you more detail on the money and legal side of the picture (where the detail is enormous already). I just want to know a few critical things which aren't answered yet which are my fault for not asking directly. MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION: How is that 2-foot slanted drainage supposed to work? The pavers told me it's supposed to be "protected" under dirt but I do not believe a word they said. I think it's supposed to be open to the air. But why is it a 45-degree slant for two feet? Is that normal for pavement? Is it critical for the runoff? (The water runs off into big 2 or 3-foot wide drains under the drive.) SECOND MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION: How would you fill the cracks in a drive that is about a half mile long? (If you say caulking gun or tubes of goop and then propane burner, I will have to tell you that's not feasible, for example.) TIA!!!!!!! Cracks that are that big and deep cannot be filled properly period, Time to rip it up and repave it. The company that coated my driveway said, quite clearly that they would walk away from a job with very large cracks as they could not, and would not, warrant the job to either their or my satisfaction. |
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#15
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 12:12:05 PM UTC-4, June Bug wrote:
The date is 30/08/2017 08:04 You have been taken really well. Didn't you watch while the work was being done???? We don't know what to look for. We see they didn't shovel the sides to the edge of the drainage "slant" but the previous crew five years ago (and five years before them) didn't shovel at all. We only found out about the fact that two feet of "drive" went beyond the side of the road when we dug those test tunnels. What did the contract say they were supposed to do? If you're saying there was driveway covered with dirt and they didn't clean it off and then seal coat it, obviously that's a sign of shysters. A reputable company would walk it with you, point out what needs to be done, including the above, write up a contract. The cracks are only half done in places so one question we have is how "flush" is a crack repair supposed to be when the crack starts at about 1/4 to 2 inches wide? Is it supposed to be fully flush? Yes, close to flush. Usually they wind up over. And how can you tell if the slurry is "good" stuff? By asking what specific product they use, putting it in the contract and dealing with a reputable local company that you have checked out. Given what we've heard and seen, I'd wager big odds that it's cheap stuff. How long it lasts, who knows, but I would not expect much. We still need to fill the cracks so would you go buy the "goop" at Home Depot and just drip it into the cracks and be done with it? Depends on what you want it to look likem and how much you're willing to spend. We can't see the overall situation. You complained that there are apparently edges that are covered with dirt that was never cleaned away to get to the driveway. You OK with that? OK with how uniform it looks? You could do anything from just the cracks, to doing it all right and applying sealer to the whole thing. |
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#16
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
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#17
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
The date is 30/08/2017 09:32
Who cares about you or yer ****in' driveway. People on a home-repair group do. |
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#18
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
The date is 30/08/2017 09:34
sometimes responses prove useful for others. No problem there as that is what usernet is all about, but I'm really asking a home repair question. The main question really is how to tell WHAT materials were used. The main focus moving forward, really, is how to pick up where they left off. |
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#19
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
The date is 30/08/2017 11:01
They don't provide quality service or work, why would they use quality materials? Makes sense but maybe there's not way NOT to use quality materials? Know what I mean? Take, oh, I don't know, a cook. A cook can be lazy and do a lousy job making food, but the flour, sugar, and water can be just fine coming from huge bags at Costco. So, the question is HOW TO TELL from looking at it what materials were used. If I were a dentist, I could look in your mouth and tell you whether you had quality work. If I knew this road slurry job, I could probably do the same thing. I just need to find someone here on home repair who can do that. Can you? |
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#20
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
The date is 30/08/2017 09:53
Cracks that are that big and deep cannot be filled properly period, Time to rip it up and repave it. The company that coated my driveway said, quite clearly that they would walk away from a job with very large cracks as they could not, and would not, warrant the job to either their or my satisfaction. This is good to know. At what point is a "crack too deep?" |
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#21
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
The date is 30/08/2017 09:50
I think you already know or you wouldn't be here. No I don't. I have two unanswered questions that deal with the drive repair. One is I ask you for advice on your experience with drive drainage given the 45-year-old drive has two feet of soil on top of a 2-foot 45-degree "swale" that I don't understand because I have never seen this before. Have you seen this type of drain swale before? https://s26.postimg.org/vfyd2yhbd/005_seals.jpg How is it supposed to work? It's not hard to do, you can buy the supplies at the typical building supply centers. I'm sure there are plenty of videos and DIY stuff on the internet. If there is no patching, just some cracks, all you need is an applicator brush/squeegee, a good broom. It helps if you have an air compressor to blow out the cracks. But since you don't have experience, don't know what it should look like, expecting teenagers with no experience either to do the job is probably another mistake. I watched videos yesterday where people were on their knees pressing black strings cheese goop into cracks and then heating them with propane burners. All that fine detail and exquisite care for every quarter inch crack might work for a drive that is twenty feet long but not 100 times that in length which is shared by 9 people. Here's the equipment they used, for example (don't bother telling me about the u-haul). I just want to know what kind of equipment was that? Do we need it, for example? https://s26.postimg.org/iw7tsyii1/001_seals.jpg -- (Please keep this to home repair. I can see it's a u-haul truck.) |
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#22
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
The date is 30/08/2017 09:24
Yes, you can buy stuff at HD and fill them. Given that you have cracks 13" deep, you may be in for serious problems in the next year or two and should start saving for a complete new paving job. Thank you for that advice which is that we can buy "something" (but what works best?) at Home Depot. There is only one section near a drain that gets plugged up where the cracks are a foot deep. All the rest of the cracks have no depth to speak of. At most, the big ones are an inch or two. There are myriad little ones with no depth at all. Meantime, you can buy filler and sealer and have the teenagers do the work. It is heavy stuff but does not require a lot of skill. We will likely be finishing the job they left off. Take the shoveling for example which we can hire kids to do. Here is a very short 100 foot section where one resident shoveled his own area where he said he personally took out 100 wheelbarrow loads (he said it was a dump truck full). https://s26.postimg.org/9s9esigx5/004_seals.jpg After he did that, the "swale" looked like this (but the people I talked to were confounded by how the swale was supposed to work since it's a 2-foot 45-degree ramp). https://s26.postimg.org/4fkkedt0p/003_seals.jpg He did this on his own because he saw the contractors at the other end were not doing it. https://s26.postimg.org/i7yza0js9/002_seals.jpg In the end, here is what his section of the swale looks like. https://s26.postimg.org/4xfpu8ill/007_seals.jpg But none of us can figure out how that swale works because water goes perpendicular to the 45 degrees down the drive. Do you know how that swale works? https://s26.postimg.org/ipu4pv9d5/006_seals.jpg Is it really a "retaining wall" and not a drainage "swale" for example? |
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#23
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
One is I ask you for advice on your experience with drive drainage given the 45-year-old drive has two feet of soil on top of a 2-foot 45-degree "swale" that I don't understand because I have never seen this before. Have you seen this type of drain swale before? https://s26.postimg.org/vfyd2yhbd/005_seals.jpg How is it supposed to work? I suspect that the paved driveway is slightly crowned or sloped - the asphalt swale takes the heavy run-off during downpours and channels it to a more desireable drainage point - so as to avoid erosion along the edge of the pavement which will eventually lead to damage. John T. |
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#24
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 4:04:30 PM UTC-4, June Bug wrote:
The date is 30/08/2017 09:50 I think you already know or you wouldn't be here. No I don't. I have two unanswered questions that deal with the drive repair. One is I ask you for advice on your experience with drive drainage given the 45-year-old drive has two feet of soil on top of a 2-foot 45-degree "swale" that I don't understand because I have never seen this before. Have you seen this type of drain swale before? https://s26.postimg.org/vfyd2yhbd/005_seals.jpg How is it supposed to work? How are we supposed to tell from a picture that shows a closeup of one section? We have no idea the grade, how much surface area there is, where the water goes to, etc. It looks like it's essentially a gutter to take the water away, but then I'm not there when it's raining. IDK what this means: "the 45-year-old drive has two feet of soil on top of a 2-foot 45-degree" But if the asphalt is 45 years old, the advice someone else gave, that with all those big cracks you're going to need to think about replacement, probably is right. Short of that, you're probably putting lipstick on a pig. But then we can't see the whole thing either. It's not hard to do, you can buy the supplies at the typical building supply centers. I'm sure there are plenty of videos and DIY stuff on the internet. If there is no patching, just some cracks, all you need is an applicator brush/squeegee, a good broom. It helps if you have an air compressor to blow out the cracks. But since you don't have experience, don't know what it should look like, expecting teenagers with no experience either to do the job is probably another mistake. I watched videos yesterday where people were on their knees pressing black strings cheese goop into cracks and then heating them with propane burners. I think that rope type crack sealer is probably the best stuff there is for a DIY. It melts and goes in hot. All that fine detail and exquisite care for every quarter inch crack might work for a drive that is twenty feet long but not 100 times that in length which is shared by 9 people. Which is why they have a variety of other products available too. Pros use hot product or similar that comes off a truck, which is probably what you need when you have a 2000 ft driveway that 9 people are paying for. Here's the equipment they used, for example (don't bother telling me about the u-haul). I just want to know what kind of equipment was that? Do we need it, for example? https://s26.postimg.org/iw7tsyii1/001_seals.jpg -- (Please keep this to home repair. I can see it's a u-haul truck.) Looks like the cheap eqpt that a typical fly-by-night type would use to apply seal coat. The eqpt isn't the problem, it and the truck are symptoms of the problem. Guys who know what they are doing could seal coat your driveway using that eqpt and do a good job. But pros who know what they are doing usually don't drive around in a rental truck with a small trailer. Where were you when this was all happening? I can understand that you wouldn't be able to tell what the specific seal coat product was they were using. But you say there were areas on the sides that were covered with dirt, that they just ignored. That there were cracks not done right, other cracks you have pics of that were not done at all. It's not rockets science that has to be done first, then the seal coat goes over the whole thing. It's like painting a house, you do the prep work, repairs first, then apply the top coat. If they were applying seal coat, but cracks were not done, dirt areas were still on the side, why wasn't anyone stopping them and asking what's going on? Did you have a written contract? What does it say? How large is this job and what did you pay? |
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#25
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
On 2017-08-30 3:36 PM, June Bug wrote:
The date is 30/08/2017 09:53 Cracks that are that big and deep cannot be filled properly period, Time to rip it up and repave it. The company that coated my driveway said, quite clearly that they would walk away from a job with very large cracks as they could not, and would not, warrant the job to either their or my satisfaction. This is good to know. At what point is a "crack too deep?" I have no idea, but 10 inches is obviously too deep. |
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#26
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 5:54:07 PM UTC-4, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2017-08-30 3:36 PM, June Bug wrote: The date is 30/08/2017 09:53 Cracks that are that big and deep cannot be filled properly period, Time to rip it up and repave it. The company that coated my driveway said, quite clearly that they would walk away from a job with very large cracks as they could not, and would not, warrant the job to either their or my satisfaction. This is good to know. At what point is a "crack too deep?" I have no idea, but 10 inches is obviously too deep. The op said 10 inches deep, wonder if they meant long? I asked, didn't see an answer. This may to be more then a typical seal coat project,especially since it now appears the pavement is 40 years old. |
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#27
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
On 8/30/2017 2:55 AM, June Bug wrote:
We just got our common asphalt driveway "sealed" where the asphalt company was a family who didn't finish the job (they didn't seal the cracks for example). There's 2 or 3 crews come by our house every year offering to seal our driveway. As it's over 1800 ft. long, they likely figure it's a good paycheck. Problem is, unless you follow them from where they buy the sealant to your home, there is no guarantee that the sealant is 100%. A common ruse is to get a partial tank, and top it off with water. There is variation as to the quality of sealant as well. So, first off, you hope the sealant they are purchasing is of good quality, and then you hope they don't dilute it after they purchase it. IOW, as someone else pointed out, only time will tell. Usually our driveway 'looks good' for two years... tops. |
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#28
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
The date is 29/08/2017 23:55
We just got our common asphalt driveway "sealed" where the asphalt company was a family who didn't finish the job (they didn't seal the cracks for example). In continuing, I found a nice PDF of the different kinds of asphalt cracks: http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/maint/mtag/...ck_sealing.pdf Ours don't seem to be "Fatigue Cracks" (which can't be effectively sealed), the lack of which explains why we have no potholes even after 45 years of use. Nor do they seem to be "Edge cracks" or "Slippage cracks" or "Reflection cracks", nor "Joint cracks", none of which respond well to sealing. Our cracks seem to be more like "Longitudinal cracks" & "Transverse cracks" caused most likely by thermal stress, which can be effectively sealed. The decision of whether to seal or fill a crack seems to be based on whether the crack is working or non-working and whether the crack undergoes horizontal or vertical movement. The main problem is that the better sealants are thermoplastics with cloth binders, both of which take specialized equipment. But the good news is that the cold-poured materials are ok for non highly trafficked areas like our drive, which maybe gets a dozen to two dozen vehicles a day. https://www.asphaltsealcoatingdirect...-filling-guide |
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#29
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How can we tell our drive was actually properly slurry sealed
The date is 31/08/2017 06:13
In continuing, I found a nice PDF of the different kinds of asphalt cracks: http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/maint/mtag/...ck_sealing.pdf Ours don't seem to be "Fatigue Cracks" (which can't be effectively sealed), the lack of which explains why we have no potholes even after 45 years of use. Nor do they seem to be "Edge cracks" or "Slippage cracks" or "Reflection cracks", nor "Joint cracks", none of which respond well to sealing. Our cracks seem to be more like "Longitudinal cracks" & "Transverse cracks" caused most likely by thermal stress, which can be effectively sealed. The decision of whether to seal or fill a crack seems to be based on whether the crack is working or non-working and whether the crack undergoes horizontal or vertical movement. We had what seems like a reputable paver walk the drive with some of us, and he recommended a few things, but otherwise said the slurry is OK. This second paver recommended fixing some of the aligatoring (which I hadn't noticed until I read the Caltrans crack-repair PDF) so what the second paver said is reasonable. This second paver said the slurry is fine and that the 45-degree drainage "bank" is just there for good drainage but that it would cost us two days of "bobcat" work to remove but that it doesn't need to be removed. This second paver said that the cracks that were sealed were not sealed with the filler but just the sand & slurry seal, but that this is often done by pavers so it's "normal" and maybe even "ok" but the deeper cracks should be filled & sealed. This second paver said "leave it alone" for about a year, except for the deeper cracks, and he said he'd give us $200 worth of materials to do an emergency seal, gratis, as a gesture of good faith for us to consider him in about a year (he said he's so busy that he couldn't get to us until October anyway, which we believe because three of the contractors we contacted, I found out, told us the same thing - that they're so busy they can't do the work until the winter or spring of next year). In the end, I got what I wanted, which was an education. When I walk the drive, I NOTICE STUFF I never noticed before, like the aligatoring, and the deeper cracks, and the sandy seal where it's done well and where it's not done so well, and the difference between fill and seal, etc. Thanks for all your help - the job was better than we thought, but not really a good job and we withheld much of the payment but they just disappeared so, we'll sit tight and relatively happy since we got exactly what we paid for (so far). We have a third paver coming next week to give us a quote to finish the repair, but we may call him off based on what the second paver told us. |
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