On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 22:36:56 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


I thought you read labels. The date is stamped on the collar and it is
good for 12 years. It can be re-certified but I don't know of any place
that does it.

Buy or get an old tank from CL, then exchange at BR to have a newer
tank. Can't imagine they use a "really" old one.

On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 21:12:46 -0600, rbowman wrote:

DOes it really matter? There's precious little I can do about it.
What I do watch very carefully is my budget.


I'm just an observer wondering if the masses are readying the
pitchforks. If so, I pop up a batch of corn and watch the show.

LOL You can get lost in the swamp.

On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 07:52:23 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

I thought you read labels. The date is stamped on the collar and it is
good for 12 years. It can be re-certified but I don't know of any place
that does it.

I would assume that Blue Rino keeps on top of this. Pressure test is
not something a home owner could do.

Local corner store clerks don't read the BR tanks. Give them an old
one and they give you a new one.

Our local HD has a 24 hour Kiosk outside in expanded wire cages.

I'd figure BR tosses the old one out for metal recycle.

On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 05:26:21 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:

There were fines
and other penalties for selling short weight bread, or for a miller
who returned less flour than he was given grain to grind.

Cindy Hamilton

Stone ground grits have loss from milling.

Used to be you could buy a pound of grits in a yellow bag. The best
are from Alabama.

On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 08:27:48 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside, shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing them...

I have two tanks outside attached now. Been in triple digits for ~
20 days, high 117°F. Nothing broke or exploded, yet.

On Sun, 02 Jul 2017 15:46:05 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:


I do and I did. We bought 3 new tanks at HD 5 years ago when we
moved into this o-op. I had forgotten about the date on the collar,
but I was not about to go out in 110 degree heat to saisfy someone's
curiosity. As of early this morning I took a look at them and the
date on all three tanks was 2/17/2012. We bought them in June of
that year.

110 degree heat? Reminds me of my brief stint at MCAS Yuma in
1963.....no A/C at that point in history. However, there were swamp
coolers.

The only relief on days like that came from flying at altitude. I
remember how the rubber on the gear tires would become tacky and seem
to stick to the concrete runways.

On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 05:33:48 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:

Forty years later, I just don't bother.

Cindy Hamilton

Some days it just isn't worth chewin' through the restraints.

On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 08:47:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing them...


Most follow NFPA 58 but your local Fire Marshall can make tougher rules.

So can local politicians..

On 07/02/2017 06:26 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
Vendors have provided short weight for centuries. There were fines
and other penalties for selling short weight bread, or for a miller
who returned less flour than he was given grain to grind.


There were penalties for usury too until a system that depends on usury
was adopted.

On 07/02/2017 06:32 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 8:58:18 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 07/01/2017 12:59 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
I don't bleat merrily. I pay attention when I'm shopping. If I see
the size has decreased I say, "Either they had to increase prices or
decrease quantity. It's the same result in the end."

Ever ask yourself why they 'had to'? Ever ask yourself where the extra
money goes when it leaves your purse?

Sure. A lot of it goes to increased costs in materials, energy, and labor.

I don't make the same amount of money that I did 20 years ago, and I don't
pay the same for a pound of beef that I did 20 years ago.

And the increased cost of materials, etc? From roughly 1200 to 1500
prices were stable. Black Death and the influx of gold and silver from
the New World upset the dynamics for a couple of centuries, then prices
stabilized again. Barring external circumstances like those the usual
cause of inflation is the debasement of the currency by the government.
Adopting a fiat currency and the manipulations of central banks
facilitates debasement. Cui bono?

On 07/02/2017 08:54 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 15:38:58 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/1/2017 10:49 AM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 22:07:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 6/30/2017 4:41 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:


It seems you've missed my point which is sellers have reduced
long-standing and familiar standard package sizes in lieu of raising
prices ;-)


It has been rampant the past 10 years or so. A half gallon of ice cream
is 1.5 quarts and a quart of may is 30 ounces. IMO, it is just a slezy
wzy to slip in a price increase

Where can you buy a pound of bacon these days, eh?


Plenty of 2 pounds still around. Check Wrights at WalMart. Good stuff,
thicker than most too.

Be interesting to know if the pork is from Birkshire hogs. The best
pigs brought from England.

Given Walmart, the best pigs in China.


When I find the right piece of pork belly, I'll make a slab of it. A
process I found, done right.

In 2014 pork belly prices were rising rapidly, heading toward $2.50 a
pound, and there was even talk of a bacon shortage. Then the market
crashed. One reason was the slow down of the Chinese economy; they
weren't buying pork bellies at their former rate. Then the hog raisers
ramped up production and by 2015 they were down to $.70.

There was a blurb about a bacon shortage back in February that lasted a
couple of days before being declared fake news.

On 07/02/2017 08:56 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 20:27:18 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 7/1/17 7:15 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

Sure, why not? They want to sell stuff, but their costs have increased,
and they know that people would squawk if prices increased. It's
capitalism in action.

Cindy Hamilton

There must be some way to blame the metric system.

LOL


Hell, yes. A fifth of Old Turkey Feathers is supposed to be 757
milliliters, not 750.

On 2017-07-02 1:21 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/02/2017 08:54 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 15:38:58 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/1/2017 10:49 AM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 22:07:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 6/30/2017 4:41 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:


It seems you've missed my point which is sellers have reduced
long-standing and familiar standard package sizes in lieu of raising
prices ;-)


It has been rampant the past 10 years or so. A half gallon of ice
cream
is 1.5 quarts and a quart of may is 30 ounces. IMO, it is just a
slezy
wzy to slip in a price increase

Where can you buy a pound of bacon these days, eh?


Plenty of 2 pounds still around. Check Wrights at WalMart. Good stuff,
thicker than most too.

Be interesting to know if the pork is from Birkshire hogs. The best
pigs brought from England.

Given Walmart, the best pigs in China.


When I find the right piece of pork belly, I'll make a slab of it. A
process I found, done right.

In 2014 pork belly prices were rising rapidly, heading toward $2.50 a
pound, and there was even talk of a bacon shortage. Then the market
crashed. One reason was the slow down of the Chinese economy; they
weren't buying pork bellies at their former rate. Then the hog raisers
ramped up production and by 2015 they were down to $.70.

There was a blurb about a bacon shortage back in February that lasted a
couple of days before being declared fake news.

In Canada we used to buy bacon in 500 gram packs, a couple years ago it
went to 375 gram packs, no change in price.

On 7/2/2017 10:54 AM, Oren wrote:

Plenty of 1 pounds still around. Check Wrights at WalMart. Good stuff,
thicker than most too.

Be interesting to know if the pork is from Birkshire hogs. The best
pigs brought from England.

When I find the right piece of pork belly, I'll make a slab of it. A
process I found, done right.


I buy a lot of bacon from Nodines from Berkshire hogs. We go out there
twice a year for a Berkshire ham and pick up a few months supply of
bacon. Good stuff.
https://www.nodinesmokehouse.com/

On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 1:01:36 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 07/02/2017 06:32 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 8:58:18 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 07/01/2017 12:59 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
I don't bleat merrily. I pay attention when I'm shopping. If I see
the size has decreased I say, "Either they had to increase prices or
decrease quantity. It's the same result in the end."

Ever ask yourself why they 'had to'? Ever ask yourself where the extra
money goes when it leaves your purse?

Sure. A lot of it goes to increased costs in materials, energy, and labor.

I don't make the same amount of money that I did 20 years ago, and I don't
pay the same for a pound of beef that I did 20 years ago.

And the increased cost of materials, etc? From roughly 1200 to 1500
prices were stable. Black Death and the influx of gold and silver from
the New World upset the dynamics for a couple of centuries, then prices
stabilized again. Barring external circumstances like those the usual
cause of inflation is the debasement of the currency by the government.
Adopting a fiat currency and the manipulations of central banks
facilitates debasement. Cui bono?

The economy between 1200 and 1500 was nothing like the U.S. economy,
nor would we want it to be.

Cindy Hamiltonn

On 07/03/2017 04:50 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
The economy between 1200 and 1500 was nothing like the U.S. economy,
nor would we want it to be.

I suppose not if you're good on an economy based on debt and consumerism.

On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 09:59:34 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 07/03/2017 04:50 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
The economy between 1200 and 1500 was nothing like the U.S. economy,
nor would we want it to be.

I suppose not if you're good on an economy based on debt and consumerism.

Native Americans used Wampum!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wampum

"...Wampum was used by the northeastern Americans Indians as a form of
gift exchange, and the colonists adopted it as currency in trading
with them. Eventually, the colonists developed more efficient methods
of producing wampum, which caused inflation and ultimately the
obsolescence of it as currency."

On Sun, 02 Jul 2017 20:13:01 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside,
shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing
them...

I have two tanks outside attached now. Been in triple digits for
~ 20 days, high 117°F. Nothing broke or exploded, yet.


Last week hit 119°F. and two other days that hit 118°F., and we're
still in triple digits. One tank is installed in the enclosed base
of our grill, another is installed in the base of our patio
heater. The spare is outside, but sits under a deep overhang of the
roof. --

A couple of weeks ago, in Las Vegas, there was fire at an outdoor home
party event. Not sure, and didn't follow up on the story. Either the
tank caught fire or exploded. Very first indications was fire. An
explosion would suggest serious injuries at the party.

On Monday, July 3, 2017 at 11:57:27 AM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 07/03/2017 04:50 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
The economy between 1200 and 1500 was nothing like the U.S. economy,
nor would we want it to be.

I suppose not if you're good on an economy based on debt and consumerism.

The agrarian economy that worked under feudalism would not work in the
U.S. today.

Feel free to time travel back there, if you wish. I'm going to continue
on to the future.

Cindy Hamilton

Uncle Monster posted for all of us...



On Friday, June 30, 2017 at 9:02:49 PM UTC-5, rbowman wrote:
On 06/30/2017 03:24 PM, Oren wrote:
It didn't start today. Check your ice cream packages.

I had a cousin that worked for Sealtest. They had several levels of
quality. The cheap half-gallon blocks didn't differ much in ingredients
from the expensive ones but had a lot more air pumped into the mix.

He ruined my taste for Fudgsicles too. When the ice cream passed its
expiration date the route driver would bring it back to the plant. It
was melted and any fruit, nuts, or other solids were strained out. The
only thing that would cover up the assorted flavors was chocolate. The
resulting mixture was recast into a Fudgsicle.

As another factoid, I once picked up a load of beer that had passed its
shelf life and took it to an operation in Rancho Cucamonga, CA that
distilled out the alcohol. They also accepted soft drinks which they
fermented and distilled. They would get a certain percentage of diet
soda that they discarded and wrote off.

Make you wonder where the other past its prime stuff winds up.


A nursing home. ?(?)?

[8~{} Uncle Prime Monster

I was going to say - my home. But upon reflection it might be a homeless
shelter or a gov't food program.

--
Tekkie

Oren posted for all of us...



On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 22:07:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 6/30/2017 4:41 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:


It seems you've missed my point which is sellers have reduced
long-standing and familiar standard package sizes in lieu of raising
prices ;-)


It has been rampant the past 10 years or so. A half gallon of ice cream
is 1.5 quarts and a quart of may is 30 ounces. IMO, it is just a slezy
wzy to slip in a price increase

Where can you buy a pound of bacon these days, eh?

I go to the local meat market.

--
Tekkie

rbowman posted for all of us...



On 07/01/2017 01:03 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
The consumer should inform himself, rather than just unthinkingly tossing
the product into his shopping cart.

If you haven't noticed the consumer rarely informs herself about
anything. (just being gender inclusive like a good little SJW)

+1 on that!

--
Tekkie

Wade Garrett posted for all of us...



On 7/1/17 6:30 PM, Frank wrote:
On 7/1/2017 2:21 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...



Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside, shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing them...

Not inside any structure per NFPA standards. We responded to a fire from one
that was stored inside a garage. Propane rises while gasoline & natural gas
falls.

--
Tekkie

Oren posted for all of us...



On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 08:27:48 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside, shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing them....

I have two tanks outside attached now. Been in triple digits for ~
20 days, high 117°F. Nothing broke or exploded, yet.

I like your optimism (g)

--
Tekkie

On 7/3/2017 2:06 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Oren posted for all of us...



On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 08:27:48 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside, shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing them...

I have two tanks outside attached now. Been in triple digits for ~
20 days, high 117°F. Nothing broke or exploded, yet.

I like your optimism (g)


Curious .. how much heat can those gas tanks from mother nature before
they do explode?

--
Maggie

Cindy Hamilton posted for all of us...



On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 12:36:22 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 07/01/2017 06:16 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Friday, June 30, 2017 at 9:49:26 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 06/30/2017 11:04 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
Funny, my 5-pound bag of sugar is still 5 pounds (4 pound bags are
also available), and a 1-pound bag of coffee is still 1 pound. I've
seen smaller bags in the grocery store, but I generally go right to the
roaster for coffee.

I don't recall seeing 5 lb bags of sugar where I shop for either the
name brands or the generics; they are all 4 lbs. I buy beans so a pound
of beans is a pound. Some 3 lb cans of ground coffee have 3 lbs. I used
to buy MJB. I have some old cans I use for cereal storage that are
marked 39 ounces. The latest offerings are 33.9. There was one brand
that advertised that although it was only 33 ounces it made as much
coffee as 48 ounces used to. Less is more. Orwell would be pleased.

Perhaps your grocery store feels it isn't worth stocking 5-pound bags
of sugar. Perhaps they discovered the uncritical customers grabbed
the 4-pound bag at a lower price and left the more expensive 5-pound
bag on the shelf.

It's the free market, man.

Ain't it great. Free market, free trade, globalism... And the sheep
bleat merrily.

I don't bleat merrily. I pay attention when I'm shopping. If I see
the size has decreased I say, "Either they had to increase prices or
decrease quantity. It's the same result in the end."

Cindy Hamilton

Or quality - New & improved - isn't. Bigger & better - isn't.

--
Tekkie

In article , says...

Wade Garrett posted for all of us...



On 7/1/17 6:30 PM, Frank wrote:
On 7/1/2017 2:21 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...



Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside, shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing them...

Not inside any structure per NFPA standards. We responded to a fire from one
that was stored inside a garage. Propane rises while gasoline & natural gas
falls.

I think you have that 180 out...

"Propane is heavier than air, so the gas will settle in low places. ...
Unlike propane, natural gas is lighter than air"


http://www.thereddingpilot.com/2012/...-advises-take-
precautions-with-propane-gas/

--
RonNNN

On 7/3/2017 3:10 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 7/3/2017 2:06 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Oren posted for all of us...



On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 08:27:48 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside, shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing them...

I have two tanks outside attached now. Been in triple digits for ~
20 days, high 117°F. Nothing broke or exploded, yet.

I like your optimism (g)


Curious .. how much heat can those gas tanks from mother nature before
they do explode?

I find the critical temperature for propane is 97 degrees centigrade.
That is the temperature where above it only exists as a gas. For water
I found 374 degrees C. Of course this is only under pressure as both
materials boil at much lower temperature.

When I worked in R&D we dissolved polymers in solvents at temperatures
beyond their boiling point under pressure and spun fibers from them.

On 7/3/2017 3:04 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Wade Garrett posted for all of us...



On 7/1/17 6:30 PM, Frank wrote:
On 7/1/2017 2:21 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...



Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside, shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing them...

Not inside any structure per NFPA standards. We responded to a fire from one
that was stored inside a garage. Propane rises while gasoline & natural gas
falls.

Their density depends on molecular weight which makes methane lighter
than air and the others heavier.

On 7/3/2017 6:04 PM, Frank wrote:
On 7/3/2017 3:10 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 7/3/2017 2:06 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Oren posted for all of us...



On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 08:27:48 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill
that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside,
shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing
them...

I have two tanks outside attached now. Been in triple digits for ~
20 days, high 117°F. Nothing broke or exploded, yet.

I like your optimism (g)

Curious .. how much heat can those gas tanks from mother nature before
they do explode?

I find the critical temperature for propane is 97 degrees centigrade.
That is the temperature where above it only exists as a gas. For water
I found 374 degrees C. Of course this is only under pressure as both
materials boil at much lower temperature.

So, even on very hot days those propane tanks are safe, right?

When I worked in R&D we dissolved polymers in solvents at temperatures
beyond their boiling point under pressure and spun fibers from them.

What's R&D?

--
Maggie

On 7/3/17 7:41 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 7/3/2017 6:04 PM, Frank wrote:
On 7/3/2017 3:10 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 7/3/2017 2:06 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Oren posted for all of us...



On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 08:27:48 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill
that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside,
shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing
them...

I have two tanks outside attached now. Been in triple digits for ~
20 days, high 117°F. Nothing broke or exploded, yet.

I like your optimism (g)

Curious .. how much heat can those gas tanks from mother nature before
they do explode?

I find the critical temperature for propane is 97 degrees centigrade.
That is the temperature where above it only exists as a gas. For water
I found 374 degrees C. Of course this is only under pressure as both
materials boil at much lower temperature.

So, even on very hot days those propane tanks are safe, right?

When I worked in R&D we dissolved polymers in solvents at temperatures
beyond their boiling point under pressure and spun fibers from them.

What's R&D?


Research and development.

--
If a man speaks in the woods and there is no woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?

On 7/3/2017 6:44 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 7/3/17 7:41 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 7/3/2017 6:04 PM, Frank wrote:
On 7/3/2017 3:10 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 7/3/2017 2:06 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Oren posted for all of us...



On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 08:27:48 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill
that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full
tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside,
shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing
them...

I have two tanks outside attached now. Been in triple digits for ~
20 days, high 117°F. Nothing broke or exploded, yet.

I like your optimism (g)

Curious .. how much heat can those gas tanks from mother nature before
they do explode?

I find the critical temperature for propane is 97 degrees centigrade.
That is the temperature where above it only exists as a gas. For water
I found 374 degrees C. Of course this is only under pressure as both
materials boil at much lower temperature.

So, even on very hot days those propane tanks are safe, right?

When I worked in R&D we dissolved polymers in solvents at temperatures
beyond their boiling point under pressure and spun fibers from them.

What's R&D?


Research and development.


Ahh! Thanks! Lots of acronyms out there. I wasn't sure which one this was.

--
Maggie

On 7/3/2017 3:10 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 7/3/2017 2:06 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Oren posted for all of us...



On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 08:27:48 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside, shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing them...

I have two tanks outside attached now. Been in triple digits for ~
20 days, high 117°F. Nothing broke or exploded, yet.

I like your optimism (g)


Curious .. how much heat can those gas tanks from mother nature before
they do explode?



The short answer is a lot. Some years ago I was involved in study
regarding propane tanks of all sizes from little portable ones to large
ones used as fuel tanks on vehicles. The tanks were exposed to gasoline
fires (with fuel pumped continuously to pans under the tanks) and none
exploded. They did however, after reaching a high temperature, have the
pressure release valves and/or fusible plugs let go. Being a fire
fighter at the time, and having been assigned as the safety officer for
these tests, I was quite amazed at the results. They can take a lot of
abuse, but should still demand our respect. All the safety regulations
as stated in the NFPA are there for a reason.

On 7/3/2017 10:11 PM, Gil wrote:
On 7/3/2017 3:10 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 7/3/2017 2:06 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Oren posted for all of us...



On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 08:27:48 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill
that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside,
shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing
them...

I have two tanks outside attached now. Been in triple digits for ~
20 days, high 117°F. Nothing broke or exploded, yet.

I like your optimism (g)


Curious .. how much heat can those gas tanks from mother nature before
they do explode?


The short answer is a lot. Some years ago I was involved in study
regarding propane tanks of all sizes from little portable ones to large
ones used as fuel tanks on vehicles. The tanks were exposed to gasoline
fires (with fuel pumped continuously to pans under the tanks) and none
exploded. They did however, after reaching a high temperature, have the
pressure release valves and/or fusible plugs let go. Being a fire
fighter at the time, and having been assigned as the safety officer for
these tests, I was quite amazed at the results. They can take a lot of
abuse, but should still demand our respect. All the safety regulations
as stated in the NFPA are there for a reason.



We have at least 4 propane tanks. Three of them are the small ones and
one is about 4 feet tall...something like that. It's pretty heavy when
it's full, too.

--
Maggie

On 7/3/2017 7:47 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 7/3/2017 6:44 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 7/3/17 7:41 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 7/3/2017 6:04 PM, Frank wrote:
On 7/3/2017 3:10 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 7/3/2017 2:06 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Oren posted for all of us...



On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 08:27:48 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill
that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full
tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside,
shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing
them...

I have two tanks outside attached now. Been in triple digits for ~
20 days, high 117°F. Nothing broke or exploded, yet.

I like your optimism (g)

Curious .. how much heat can those gas tanks from mother nature before
they do explode?

I find the critical temperature for propane is 97 degrees centigrade.
That is the temperature where above it only exists as a gas. For water
I found 374 degrees C. Of course this is only under pressure as both
materials boil at much lower temperature.

So, even on very hot days those propane tanks are safe, right?

When I worked in R&D we dissolved polymers in solvents at temperatures
beyond their boiling point under pressure and spun fibers from them.

What's R&D?


Research and development.


Ahh! Thanks! Lots of acronyms out there. I wasn't sure which one this was.


I thought all knew this or I would have spelled it out.

I am learning a lot from this thread and most of all after discussing
with a friend find he pays nearly half the price that I do for propane.

He takes his empty tank to his job where they also use 5 gallon tanks of
propane to power machinery etc. When several need filling, he includes
his and saves a lot of money with their business rate. A couple of
bucks for convenience I do not mind but when convenience costs more than
a 6 pack of beer, I get concerned.

On 7/4/2017 7:27 AM, Frank wrote:
On 7/3/2017 7:47 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 7/3/2017 6:44 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 7/3/17 7:41 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 7/3/2017 6:04 PM, Frank wrote:
On 7/3/2017 3:10 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 7/3/2017 2:06 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Oren posted for all of us...



On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 08:27:48 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill
that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full
tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside,
shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing
them...

I have two tanks outside attached now. Been in triple digits
for ~
20 days, high 117°F. Nothing broke or exploded, yet.

I like your optimism (g)

Curious .. how much heat can those gas tanks from mother nature
before
they do explode?

I find the critical temperature for propane is 97 degrees centigrade.
That is the temperature where above it only exists as a gas. For
water
I found 374 degrees C. Of course this is only under pressure as both
materials boil at much lower temperature.

So, even on very hot days those propane tanks are safe, right?

When I worked in R&D we dissolved polymers in solvents at temperatures
beyond their boiling point under pressure and spun fibers from them.

What's R&D?

Research and development.

Ahh! Thanks! Lots of acronyms out there. I wasn't sure which one
this was.

I thought all knew this or I would have spelled it out.

I haven't worked in that particular field, so just wasn't sure.

I am learning a lot from this thread and most of all after discussing
with a friend find he pays nearly half the price that I do for propane.

He takes his empty tank to his job where they also use 5 gallon tanks of
propane to power machinery etc. When several need filling, he includes
his and saves a lot of money with their business rate. A couple of
bucks for convenience I do not mind but when convenience costs more than
a 6 pack of beer, I get concerned.

That six pack of beer is an important baseline, too!

--
Maggie

RonNNN posted for all of us...



In article , says...

Wade Garrett posted for all of us...



On 7/1/17 6:30 PM, Frank wrote:
On 7/1/2017 2:21 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...



Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside, shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing them...

Not inside any structure per NFPA standards. We responded to a fire from one
that was stored inside a garage. Propane rises while gasoline & natural gas
falls.

I think you have that 180 out...

"Propane is heavier than air, so the gas will settle in low places. ...
Unlike propane, natural gas is lighter than air"


http://www.thereddingpilot.com/2012/...-advises-take-
precautions-with-propane-gas/

You are correct another brain fart. Propane & gasoline are heaver and nat
gas lighter. Whew, I will now crawl in my hole and pull the lid over. Thank
you for correcting me.

--
Tekkie

In article , says...

RonNNN posted for all of us...



In article , says...

Wade Garrett posted for all of us...



On 7/1/17 6:30 PM, Frank wrote:
On 7/1/2017 2:21 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...



Yup. I put up with it because of the convenience. I don't grill that
much and a tank lasts all season and I always have a spare full tank.


Just curious; where do you store the spare tank- inside, outside, shed?

I wonder if different locales have local regulations about storing them...

Not inside any structure per NFPA standards. We responded to a fire from one
that was stored inside a garage. Propane rises while gasoline & natural gas
falls.

I think you have that 180 out...

"Propane is heavier than air, so the gas will settle in low places. ...
Unlike propane, natural gas is lighter than air"


http://www.thereddingpilot.com/2012/...-advises-take-
precautions-with-propane-gas/

You are correct another brain fart. Propane & gasoline are heaver and nat
gas lighter. Whew, I will now crawl in my hole and pull the lid over. Thank
you for correcting me.

I just remember filling balloons with gas from the wall when I was a kid
and they floated like helium balloons.

--
RonNNN