OT bank notification of debit card use, continued

First, is there a newsgroup that specializes in banking, or commerce,
or business, or anything for which this would be on-topic? And
where people might know the answer to what I think is a very strange
question?

Some of you may remember that I get notifications from the bank every
time my charge card is used a) to charge more than some amount, maybe
$100, or b) to buy something outside the 50 states.

And you may remember my complaining about being charged $110 for a car
that only holds 10 gallons of gasoline, when every other gas station
charged between 50 and 57. Did I mention that the overcharge
happened twice, 110.19 and 109.74.

So today I went to the gas station and showed him a copy of the email
the bank sent me, and said, What do you think abouty that? We dont'
speak each other's language but he knows a little English and he said
"You didn't pay that". I assumed he was referring to the foreign
exchange commission, and I pointed out that no other gas station had
charged more than 57. He also got the guy who works behind the
counter, whose English was pretty good, and all he did was say the
same thing and give me the gas station chain's phone number.

But by the time I got back, it was after 5, so I called the bank in
the US.

(BTW, it used to be very hard to call an 800 number in the US, but
with Skype you can call it like any other number. You still pay the
2.3 cents a minute for Skype, but you'd have to do that anyhow and you
don't have to convert 800 to 8nn like you used to, (and in years
before that, you had to find their non-800 number) .

So the girl at the bank, who seemed a little flighty, told me that on
April 3, I hadn't paid $110.19, only $44.76, and on
April 10, I hadn't paid $109.74, only $34.36. Plus in each case
about 1.30 transaction fee.

I didnt' believe that, but I looked at the online monthly statement,
and by golly it was true. What's going on? Why are they sending me
emails saying I paid much more money than I did?

And what is the relationship?. The first one is 2.46 times the real
charge, but the second is 3.19 times the real charge!!

Now I have to go look at all the other gas station emails and compare
them with the monthly statement , and with the receipt fromn the gas
station.

For that matter, there are all the non-gas purchases I should compare,
restaurants, grocery stores, museums, and outdoor stuff like zoos.

The rentacar company keeps pinging my debit card account. For the 3rd
time they pinged it for $2400 but so far I think they've only billed
me for $650. I understand why they checked int he first place, and
maybe they put a hold on 2400 but the hold only lasts for a month?????

But the rentacar company doesn't know how long I'll keep the car or
how much damage I will do to it. The 800 extra is the maximum I have
to pay if I damage it (though I was told 550, so there may be a
fight.) But the gas station knows what the bill is 5 minutes after I
start pumping. Why not check or even put on a hold for the largest
tank any car has and then charge the actual amount 5 minutes later.

Exchange rate where you are at? Charged in dinars then paid dollars?

On Thu, 4 May 2017 14:58:34 -0700 (PDT), Thomas
wrote:

Exchange rate where you are at? Charged in dinars then paid dollars?


https://themoneyconverter.com/DKK/USD.aspx

On Thu, 4 May 2017 14:58:34 -0700 (PDT), Thomas wrote:

Exchange rate where you are at? Charged in dinars then paid dollars?

Hey, ****tard, when you reply to a post show the text you're replying to. Moron!

On 05/04/2017 4:24 PM, Micky wrote:
OT bank notification of debit card use, continued
....

... complaining about being charged $110 for a car
that only holds 10 gallons of gasoline, when every other gas station
charged between 50 and 57. ...

So today I went to the gas station and showed him a copy of the email
... and all he did was ... give me the gas station chain's phone number.
....

Well, the clerk at the counter doesn't set policy, so talking to them is
fruitless; they can't reprogram the pumps. It could be done by
corporate, yes, but it's highly unlikely they're going to change for
you. I'd guess the choice here is to use another station if the hold is
creating other problems.

So ... on April 3, I hadn't paid $110.19, only $44.76,
and on April 10, I hadn't paid $109.74, only $34.36. ...

I didnt' believe that, but I looked at the online monthly statement,
and by golly it was true. What's going on? Why are they sending me
emails saying I paid much more money than I did?

Well, the hold _was_ placed for at least a little while; the
notification 'bot doesn't wait to see there's a later credit to match up
with the merchant ID to send a net or to not bother with notification at
all if that net is under the trigger. If this bugs you, I'd expect
there's a way to shut off the notification entirely if you want but that
may have ramifications on coverage protection in case of actual misuse
if they're doing anything above the minimum letter of the law as service.

What's it hurt? Once you're aware of what's happening, it doesn't seem
as though there's any real concern other than the potential for a
transaction to be turned down elsewhere owing to limit while there's a
high level set but seems like that's only avoidable by changing where
you trade.

It's been a while since I've been overseas but used AmEx CC almost
exclusively; never noticed anything at all untoward with it. I don't
use debit cards owing to their limited consumer protection vis a vis
credit, but that's my personal paranoia.

--

Gordon, i do not know how. Im on a samsung tab e. I have asked a few posts back. Also in google groups typing this now
Hook me up bro..

On Thu, 4 May 2017 16:18:07 -0700 (PDT), Thomas wrote:

Gordon, i do not know how. Im on a samsung tab e. I have asked a few posts back. Also in google groups typing this now
Hook me up bro..

First, I ain't your ****in' bro! Second, there are groups for testing. Go there until you figure it out.
Moron.

On Thu, 4 May 2017 16:18:07 -0700 (PDT), Thomas
wrote:

Gordon, i do not know how. Im on a samsung tab e. I have asked a few posts back. Also in google groups typing this now
Hook me up bro..


Click the Quote original link to display the original message above
your response.

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 4:24:27 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:

OT bank notification of debit card use, continued


(LOTS of snippage.) I'm not sure what we can do for you
in this situation.

Doesn't your bank have a local office
that you can speak to someone face-to-face?

Micky
Thu, 04 May 2017
21:24:22 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

First, is there a newsgroup that specializes in banking, or
commerce, or business, or anything for which this would be
on-topic? And where people might know the answer to what I
think is a very strange question?

I answered your original question awhile ago...

And you may remember my complaining about being charged $110 for a
car that only holds 10 gallons of gasoline, when every other gas
station charged between 50 and 57. Did I mention that the
overcharge happened twice, 110.19 and 109.74.

Yep. So, how long did you have to wait to get a new card? Since you
had the pin changed...Or, did you go in a local branch and fix it?


But by the time I got back, it was after 5, so I called the bank
in the US.

I feel for the person who took that call. I really do.

I didnt' believe that, but I looked at the online monthly
statement, and by golly it was true. What's going on? Why are
they sending me emails saying I paid much more money than I did?

Your monthly statement is the only one you need to be concerned with.
And, it's not your actual transaction history, but, I already covered
this.

And what is the relationship?. The first one is 2.46 times the
real charge, but the second is 3.19 times the real charge!!

I suspect i'd be wasting my time explaining what happened. based on
prior post to you. that, as far as I can tell, you didn't respond to.

Now I have to go look at all the other gas station emails and
compare them with the monthly statement , and with the receipt
fromn the gas station.

Why? You have your monthly statement, right? That's what you *should*
be going by.


--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

On 5/4/2017 5:24 PM, Micky wrote:
OT bank notification of debit card use, continued


And you may remember my complaining about being charged $110 for a car
that only holds 10 gallons of gasoline, when every other gas station
charged between 50 and 57. Did I mention that the overcharge
happened twice, 110.19 and 109.74.

So today I went to the gas station and showed him a copy of the email
the bank sent me, and said, What do you think abouty that? We dont'
speak each other's language but he knows a little English and he said
"You didn't pay that". I assumed he was referring to the foreign
exchange commission, and I pointed out that no other gas station had
charged more than 57. He also got the guy who works behind the
counter, whose English was pretty good, and all he did was say the
same thing and give me the gas station chain's phone number.

But by the time I got back, it was after 5, so I called the bank in
the US.

(BTW, it used to be very hard to call an 800 number in the US, but
with Skype you can call it like any other number. You still pay the
2.3 cents a minute for Skype, but you'd have to do that anyhow and you
don't have to convert 800 to 8nn like you used to, (and in years
before that, you had to find their non-800 number) .

So the girl at the bank, who seemed a little flighty, told me that on
April 3, I hadn't paid $110.19, only $44.76, and on
April 10, I hadn't paid $109.74, only $34.36. Plus in each case
about 1.30 transaction fee.

I didnt' believe that, but I looked at the online monthly statement,
and by golly it was true. What's going on? Why are they sending me
emails saying I paid much more money than I did?

And what is the relationship?. The first one is 2.46 times the real
charge, but the second is 3.19 times the real charge!!

Now I have to go look at all the other gas station emails and compare
them with the monthly statement , and with the receipt fromn the gas
station.


I know. Call on me! Call on me!

When you use a debit card in a gas station they do no know how much you
are going to pump. They put a hold on $XXX.xx in case you are going to
fill up a truck or camper. Once the actual charge comes through, they
adjust to the actual amount.




The rentacar company keeps pinging my debit card account. For the 3rd
time they pinged it for $2400 but so far I think they've only billed
me for $650. I understand why they checked int he first place, and
maybe they put a hold on 2400 but the hold only lasts for a month?????

Yes, same deal. That is why it is not good to use a debit card for gas
stations and car rentals. They can tie up your funds for a while.

On 5/4/2017 9:44 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

When you use a debit card in a gas station they do no know how much you
are going to pump. They put a hold on $XXX.xx in case you are going to
fill up a truck or camper. Once the actual charge comes through, they
adjust to the actual amount.

Yes, same deal. That is why it is not good to use a debit card for gas
stations and car rentals. They can tie up your funds for a while.

I had the same thing happen with a hotel, they reserve some amount
of money in case you charge things to the room or steal the towels,
whatever.

Of course, that was a credit card in my case. The pending charge
disappeared after a few days.

nancy

On Thu, 04 May 2017 18:12:50 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 4 May 2017 14:58:34 -0700 (PDT), Thomas
wrote:

Exchange rate where you are at? Charged in dinars then paid dollars?


https://themoneyconverter.com/DKK/USD.aspx

Thanks, but no, I allowed for that. The email transaction alert is
in dollars but it's 2.5 to 3 times what was actually charged the
account. And it's twice what every other gas station alert was,
though I still have to compare those alerts with the actual
withdrawals.

Ed Pawlowski Fri,
05 May 2017 01:44:48 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

[snip]

I know. Call on me! Call on me!

When you use a debit card in a gas station they do no know how
much you are going to pump. They put a hold on $XXX.xx in case
you are going to fill up a truck or camper. Once the actual
charge comes through, they adjust to the actual amount.

Sort of... You're very close though. It can also affect a credit
card transaction in the same manner. It's not restricted to your
debit card. They don't know how much money your card has available,
so, if you only had, say $20 available and you pumped $50 worth,
they're eating $30; since they do the transaction AFTER you receive
the gas.

They can't very well reverse the pump and get that gas back from
you. So, they place a hold on your card that's settable by them, and
*should* cover however much you might use at their pump. Your bank
and the ACH network determines how long that hold actually lasts,
not the gas merchant. The merchant just controls how much of a hold
they're going to place on you. Just to make sure you can pay for the
gas you pumped.

If you want to avoid the entire process, go inside and swipe your
card at the cash register. This also reduces the chances of your
card being skimmed, since it's much harder to modify the cash
register equipment (pending the cashier isn't in on it) than it is
to play with the gas pumps card reader.

Don't take my word for it, see he

http://www.cleveland.com/business/in..._your_car.html

One little thing the article doesn't mention is what happens if you
pump more gas than you can pay for using that card...Bring another
card and/or cash with you, or just prepay for a specified amount and
swipe your card for that amount, prior to pumping, INSIDE the store.
Otherwise, if you pump the gas and can't pay for it, well, you won't
be having a good day.

If your familiar with the vehicle, you should already have a good
idea how much gas it can drink to full up.


--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

On Thu, 04 May 2017 18:14:13 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/04/2017 4:24 PM, Micky wrote:
OT bank notification of debit card use, continued
...

... complaining about being charged $110 for a car
that only holds 10 gallons of gasoline, when every other gas station
charged between 50 and 57. ...

So today I went to the gas station and showed him a copy of the email
... and all he did was ... give me the gas station chain's phone number.
...

Well, the clerk at the counter doesn't set policy, so talking to them is

I didn't say so but I talked to the manager, who I was told was also
the owner. The counter clerk just did translating.

There's no doubt he was the manager. Not sure if the word "owner" was
understood, even though the counter guy seemed to speak v.good
English. "Owner" is the kind of word that varies in meaning
depending on who's using it.

fruitless; they can't reprogram the pumps. It could be done by
corporate, yes, but it's highly unlikely they're going to change for
you. I'd guess the choice here is to use another station if the hold is
creating other problems.

So ... on April 3, I hadn't paid $110.19, only $44.76,
and on April 10, I hadn't paid $109.74, only $34.36. ...

I didnt' believe that, but I looked at the online monthly statement,
and by golly it was true. What's going on? Why are they sending me
emails saying I paid much more money than I did?

Well, the hold _was_ placed for at least a little while; the

You're right, I'm sure, but if it's only a hold and not a debit, the
bank ought to say that. It ought to alert me that way. Instead it
says
Amount $109.74
Debit/ATM card ending in nnnn
Whe at this brand of gas in this town
When: Date
View details, A link which could go straight to the transaction in
the email but instead just goes to Bank of America, where I have to
page to find the transaction, and where I can't find it by looking for
a matching amount because the amounts don't come close to matching.
And where, when I do find the transaction, the added details are
more about me than about them. It doesn't give the amount of the
charge in the original denomination, It does give the lower amount,
$34.36 and it does say:
Description: CHECKCARD 0410 gas compny & town
and a 23-digit number which I guess is the transaction number
Merchant category: Service Stations (with or without Ancillary
Services)
Merchant category code: 5541
Merchant name: the same as on the email alert.
No reference to a prior hold, 5 minutes earlier, that is now released.

notification 'bot doesn't wait to see there's a later credit to match up
with the merchant ID to send a net or to not bother with notification at
all if that net is under the trigger. If this bugs you, I'd expect
there's a way to shut off the notification entirely

That would be worse, because except for the rentacar and this gas
station (and maybe the others, havent' checked yet) everyone else
sends the right amount.

if you want but that
may have ramifications on coverage protection in case of actual misuse
if they're doing anything above the minimum letter of the law as service.

What's it hurt? Once you're aware of what's happening, it doesn't seem

It took me weeks to figure it out, and I suppose the other 100's of
thousands of BOA customers who look at the alerts are also wasting
their time trying to figure it out. The gas station manager seemed
to know about it when he said "You didn't pay that."

Plus for travelers, someone who had unexpected expenses, or who stayed
longer than planned, might be getting near the end of his money in
the debit account or credit in the credit account.

And most of all, now that I know and since I wasn't running out of
money***, it's just so annoying to see a major institution, bankers
who are supposed to know how to bank, who claim to report transactions
but don't know how to report them.

It's like NASA had telemetry from the Apollo moon shots and the
booster rocket sent back an alert, "About 93,000 gallons of fuel
left", and that's not enough to get the ship out of earth's
gravitational pull and the ground crew is thinking they should abort,
about to abort. Then later Apollo adjusts the amount to say 270,000
gallons of fuel left, but doesn't bother to send that to the ground
crew. Would that system be acceptable?


If they want to send a notice that there is a hold, that's a good
thing but only if they follow with a notice, "Hold released / Actual
charge is $nn.nn." Aren't the actual charges more important to me
than the holds? Especially when the actual charge is only 5 minutes
after the hold? Especially when the hold is 50 dollars more and I
have over 5000 dollars in the account. What I want to know is how
much I was charged.

The monthly statement online does have that information (though I'm
not sure how soon), but it's much much harder to use than email, which
just arrives with no effort. To look at the monthly statement, one
has to be willing to do it on the phone, or he has to have access to a
computer. Has to go to the webpage, log in, get to the summary page
and scroll down looking for the charge. On April 10th somehow I had
about 10 charges on that one day (counting the commission charges
which are listed separately (a little over 1% for a $100 charges, 3%
for 10 dollar charges, and people here use their card for everything.
When I failed to ask for a plastic bag in advance at the supermiarket,
and I had no change, he took my card and charged me for the bag.
$0.03. I havent' checked yet what the commission was on that. ;-)


***Actually I added 4000 dollars to the debit account by writing a
check on another account somewhere else and holding it up to the
phone, and depositing it over net. Very strange. (I wasnt' running
out of money yet, but in case it didnt' work, I wanted time to do
other things.)

as though there's any real concern other than the potential for a
transaction to be turned down elsewhere owing to limit while there's a
high level set but seems like that's only avoidable by changing where
you trade.

It's been a while since I've been overseas but used AmEx CC almost
exclusively; never noticed anything at all untoward with it. I don't
use debit cards owing to their limited consumer protection vis a vis
credit, but that's my personal paranoia.

Oh, and the rentacar place caused the credit-card bank to send me
another notice today
"A transaction on your Voice Credit Card account nicknamed CC2827 with
card ending in 2827 attempted a single transaction that is above the
limit of $1.00 set in your alert preferences. " I hadn't noticed the
word "attempted" before. Maybe that means they're just checking to
see if I have enough credit, but they should be putting a hold on, and
the notice should say hold, not attempt. Attempt makes it sound like
they got the expiration date or the 3-number code wrong, so the charge
failed.

Back to the first bank, Bank of America, when I got charged the same
amount twice in 5 minutes, but one was cancelled, the woman at the
bank said they didnt' send me a notice because the merchant cancelled
it, not the bank. I explained that the merchant made the original
charge to and they notified me about that, so they should notify me
about cancellations. She seemed to agree and said she'd tell her
supervisor or someone. I find it amazing that after all these years,
their procedures are so bad. Maybe there is some benefit to the bank
in having these mistaken procedures, but I can't imagine what it is.

If I went by the rentacar alerts only I'd think they charged me 5000
dollars by now.


And I don't know if I posted here that BOA doesnt' send alerts for
some Ebay purchases claiming the PIN was used, even though it wasn't.
Ebay doesn't know my PIN and certainly the various vendors don't know
my PIN. I spent 2 hours on the phone with BOA about this, the second
hour she had someone from Ebay on the phone with us, and the ebay
woman explained things from her pov but the BOA woman just couldn't
believe that BOA was doing it wrong. I finally got referred to the
Electronic Payment Department, I think it was, but I need to rest up
before another phone call of an hour or two. (I also cherish the weak
hope that if I wait a month or two, the conversation will get back to
someone in charge who will fix this without my having to call again.)

So this is 3 major or substantial mistakes in BOA policy. It's
incredible.

On Thu, 4 May 2017 16:44:23 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 4:24:27 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:

OT bank notification of debit card use, continued


(LOTS of snippage.) I'm not sure what we can do for you
in this situation.

Doesn't your bank have a local office

Not in this country.

that you can speak to someone face-to-face?

I pays to post here. The reply I just made to dpb will function well
either as notes when I talk to someone in person or on the phone when
I get back home, or as the basis for a letter.

Much as I hate webforums, maybe I'll find a banking website with a
forum and post there, but when I get home. Too much interesting and
fun stuff to do here.

On Fri, 5 May 2017 00:40:19 -0000 (UTC), Diesel
wrote:

Micky
Thu, 04 May 2017
21:24:22 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

First, is there a newsgroup that specializes in banking, or
commerce, or business, or anything for which this would be
on-topic? And where people might know the answer to what I
think is a very strange question?

I answered your original question awhile ago...


I don't remember and I looked and coudn't find it. Could you tell me
again of a newsgroup like that, or someplace people really know about
these things.

And you may remember my complaining about being charged $110 for a
car that only holds 10 gallons of gasoline, when every other gas
station charged between 50 and 57. Did I mention that the
overcharge happened twice, 110.19 and 109.74.

Yep. So, how long did you have to wait to get a new card? Since you
had the pin changed...Or, did you go in a local branch and fix it?

I didn't lose the card, and the PIN wasn't involved in these charges.
At none of the gas stations do they ask for the pin or have me enter
it, and at only one of the stations did they ask for my signature.

When you pump it yourself, they do ask for you ID number, which I'm
told is mostly for cases when the gas is a deductible business expense
(and therefore if you enter a number that's no good, it doesn't hurt
them, only possibly you yourself, but not me since my gas is not a
deduction), and your license plate number, which I think has to do
with if you reverse the credit card charge, or maybe the card is
stolen so they can't use its info to find you, but at least they can
find the car.


But by the time I got back, it was after 5, so I called the bank
in the US.

I feel for the person who took that call. I really do.

That's sweet of you.

I didnt' believe that, but I looked at the online monthly
statement, and by golly it was true. What's going on? Why are
they sending me emails saying I paid much more money than I did?

Your monthly statement is the only one you need to be concerned with.
And, it's not your actual transaction history, but, I already covered
this.

And what is the relationship?. The first one is 2.46 times the
real charge, but the second is 3.19 times the real charge!!

I suspect i'd be wasting my time explaining what happened. based on
prior post to you. that, as far as I can tell, you didn't respond to.

I looked in the thread about gas and so forth and didn't find any
posts by you that tried to explain this.

Now I have to go look at all the other gas station emails and
compare them with the monthly statement , and with the receipt
fromn the gas station.

Why? You have your monthly statement, right? That's what you *should*
be going by.

Why send me alerts if they are just going to be misleading? Why send
alerts about holds if they don't send an alert for the actual charge?
Why send alerts about holds but not call them holds, and why not send
one when the hold is lifted?. One would think email notification
just started 6 months ago and they havent' figured anything out yet.

On Thu, 4 May 2017 21:44:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


So the girl at the bank, who seemed a little flighty, told me that on
April 3, I hadn't paid $110.19, only $44.76, and on
April 10, I hadn't paid $109.74, only $34.36. Plus in each case
about 1.30 transaction fee.

I didnt' believe that, but I looked at the online monthly statement,
and by golly it was true. What's going on? Why are they sending me
emails saying I paid much more money than I did?

And what is the relationship?. The first one is 2.46 times the real
charge, but the second is 3.19 times the real charge!!

Now I have to go look at all the other gas station emails and compare
them with the monthly statement , and with the receipt fromn the gas
station.


I know. Call on me! Call on me!

You in the back, chewing gum. You finally have something to
contribute?

When you use a debit card in a gas station they do no know how much you
are going to pump. They put a hold on $XXX.xx in case you are going to
fill up a truck or camper. Once the actual charge comes through, they
adjust to the actual amount.

I think notifying me of a hold is good, but they should in the email
distinguish holds from charges, and they should email me when the hold
is lifted, and they should email me the actual charge. Otherwise, the
whole email alert systerm is more lame than a 3-legged cat.


The rentacar company keeps pinging my debit card account. For the 3rd
time they pinged it for $2400 but so far I think they've only billed
me for $650. I understand why they checked int he first place, and
maybe they put a hold on 2400 but the hold only lasts for a month?????

Yes, same deal. That is why it is not good to use a debit card for gas
stations and car rentals. They can tie up your funds for a while.

You're right.

In this case I made sure I had plenty of money, because it's illegal
to work here when you're a tourist. ;-)

And most places insist on a credit card for car rental. I don't know
why since I learned you can put a hold on debit cards too. And
does't the hold on the credit card t ies up that amount of credit,
which for some people is more likely to be spent than money!

On Thu, 4 May 2017 22:04:48 -0400, Nancy Young
wrote:

On 5/4/2017 9:44 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

When you use a debit card in a gas station they do no know how much you
are going to pump. They put a hold on $XXX.xx in case you are going to
fill up a truck or camper. Once the actual charge comes through, they
adjust to the actual amount.

Yes, same deal. That is why it is not good to use a debit card for gas
stations and car rentals. They can tie up your funds for a while.

I had the same thing happen with a hotel, they reserve some amount
of money in case you charge things to the room or steal the towels,
whatever.

Of course, that was a credit card in my case. The pending charge
disappeared after a few days.

nancy

Serious questions:

Did the bank send you an email alert about the hold? (Well, do you
have it set up for email alerts at all?)

Did the alert call it a hold or use the same words they use for an
actual charge?

Did they send another email when the hold was lifted? Sending the
first but not the second is like sending a letter, "Your baby has been
kidnapped" and then never saying when your 2-month old child who can't
walk to a telephone and can't use a telephone is released.

Did the bank send an alert about the final actual charge from the
hotel?

Why? You have your monthly statement, right? That's what you *should*
be going by.


Why send me alerts if they are just going to be misleading? Why send
alerts about holds if they don't send an alert for the actual charge?
Why send alerts about holds but not call them holds, and why not send
one when the hold is lifted?. One would think email notification
just started 6 months ago and they havent' figured anything out yet.


Questions that you could, perhaps, ask the credit card company ?
Duh Huh ...
John T.

"Micky" wrote in message
...
OT bank notification of debit card use, continued

First, is there a newsgroup that specializes in banking, or commerce,
or business, or anything for which this would be on-topic? And
where people might know the answer to what I think is a very strange
question?

Some of you may remember that I get notifications from the bank every
time my charge card is used a) to charge more than some amount, maybe
$100, or b) to buy something outside the 50 states.

And you may remember my complaining about being charged $110 for a car
that only holds 10 gallons of gasoline, when every other gas station
charged between 50 and 57. Did I mention that the overcharge
happened twice, 110.19 and 109.74.

So today I went to the gas station and showed him a copy of the email
the bank sent me, and said, What do you think abouty that? We dont'
speak each other's language but he knows a little English and he said
"You didn't pay that". I assumed he was referring to the foreign
exchange commission, and I pointed out that no other gas station had
charged more than 57. He also got the guy who works behind the
counter, whose English was pretty good, and all he did was say the
same thing and give me the gas station chain's phone number.

But by the time I got back, it was after 5, so I called the bank in
the US.

(BTW, it used to be very hard to call an 800 number in the US, but
with Skype you can call it like any other number. You still pay the
2.3 cents a minute for Skype, but you'd have to do that anyhow and you
don't have to convert 800 to 8nn like you used to, (and in years
before that, you had to find their non-800 number) .

So the girl at the bank, who seemed a little flighty, told me that on
April 3, I hadn't paid $110.19, only $44.76, and on
April 10, I hadn't paid $109.74, only $34.36. Plus in each case
about 1.30 transaction fee.

I didnt' believe that, but I looked at the online monthly statement,
and by golly it was true. What's going on? Why are they sending me
emails saying I paid much more money than I did?

And what is the relationship?. The first one is 2.46 times the real
charge, but the second is 3.19 times the real charge!!

Now I have to go look at all the other gas station emails and compare
them with the monthly statement , and with the receipt fromn the gas
station.

For that matter, there are all the non-gas purchases I should compare,
restaurants, grocery stores, museums, and outdoor stuff like zoos.

The rentacar company keeps pinging my debit card account. For the 3rd
time they pinged it for $2400 but so far I think they've only billed
me for $650. I understand why they checked int he first place, and
maybe they put a hold on 2400 but the hold only lasts for a month?????

But the rentacar company doesn't know how long I'll keep the car or
how much damage I will do to it. The 800 extra is the maximum I have
to pay if I damage it (though I was told 550, so there may be a
fight.) But the gas station knows what the bill is 5 minutes after I
start pumping. Why not check or even put on a hold for the largest
tank any car has and then charge the actual amount 5 minutes later.

Simplify your life. Use your card to get a bunch of cash, pay in cash.
When you run out of cash, get more.

On 5/5/2017 5:46 AM, Micky wrote:
On Thu, 4 May 2017 22:04:48 -0400, Nancy Young
wrote:

I had the same thing happen with a hotel, they reserve some amount
of money in case you charge things to the room or steal the towels,
whatever.

Of course, that was a credit card in my case. The pending charge
disappeared after a few days.

Serious questions:

Did the bank send you an email alert about the hold? (Well, do you
have it set up for email alerts at all?)

I tried the email thing once and it was just annoying so I turned
off that option. Really I have no idea if they would have notified
me of a block of credit on hold.

I knew this was common practice in some industries but I never
noticed it in action before.

Did the alert call it a hold or use the same words they use for an
actual charge?

Did they send another email when the hold was lifted? Sending the
first but not the second is like sending a letter, "Your baby has been
kidnapped" and then never saying when your 2-month old child who can't
walk to a telephone and can't use a telephone is released.

Did the bank send an alert about the final actual charge from the
hotel?

I only noticed the pending charge because I checked my statement
for some other reason. I use a credit card so it doesn't overly
concern me as I can dispute it later. If I used a debit card I'd
be checking all the time because the money would disappear from my
account if there was fraud.

Not a fan. Good thing you had enough cash in the account but maybe
traveling is a good time to use credit cards.

nancy

On 05/05/2017 4:16 AM, Micky wrote:
....

There's no doubt he was the manager. Not sure if the word "owner" was
understood, even though the counter guy seemed to speak v.good
English. "Owner" is the kind of word that varies in meaning
depending on who's using it.

Well, even if he were, it's a franchise operation. The net is I am
certain he has no say in corporate policy regarding the amount set for
coverage on at-pump sales.

....

You're right, I'm sure, but if it's only a hold and not a debit, the
bank ought to say that. It ought to alert me that way. Instead it
says
Amount $109.74
Debit/ATM card ending in nnnn
Whe at this brand of gas in this town
When: Date
View details, A link which could go straight to the transaction in
the email but instead just goes to Bank of America, where I have to
page to find the transaction, and where I can't find it by looking for
a matching amount because the amounts don't come close to matching.
And where, when I do find the transaction, the added details are
more about me than about them. It doesn't give the amount of the
charge in the original denomination, It does give the lower amount,
$34.36 and it does say:
Description: CHECKCARD 0410 gas compny& town
and a 23-digit number which I guess is the transaction number
Merchant category: Service Stations (with or without Ancillary
Services)
Merchant category code: 5541
Merchant name: the same as on the email alert.
No reference to a prior hold, 5 minutes earlier, that is now released.

And so, as said, it's a temporary inconvenience that you get the
notification; the actual amount is transitory. _Could_ they reprogram
the 'bot? Sure. Are they going to? Most unlikely. It is, after all,
BOA, about the most worthless outfit going for consumer banking.


....

It took me weeks to figure it out, and I suppose the other 100's of
thousands of BOA customers who look at the alerts are also wasting
their time trying to figure it out. The gas station manager seemed
to know about it when he said "You didn't pay that."
....

Doesn't seem that difficult; annoying perhaps, but not difficult. The
monthly statement is the final arbiter and you seem to be "whole" in the
end which is all that really matters to BOA.

Did I say before BOA sucks?

BTW, if you don't want the excessive hold, at least most stations will
set an upper limit on the pump if you ask instead of just the "free-pump
fillup". If you aren't insistent on topping-off, just go for what
you're certain can take and that's all the charge will be; the pump will
shut off automagically when gets there.

When gas prices skyrocketed there were so many driveoffs and card limits
exceeded before the limits were enacted the industry reacted and often
over-reacted as this particular one you've encountered. Here, at least,
with the stabilization in prices and the backing off from the most
extreme, the problem has abated and most, if not all, stations are
pretty reasonable.

BTW, if I haven't mentioned it before, BOA is terrible...find a "real" bank.

--

On Fri, 05 May 2017 00:24:22 +0300
Micky wrote:

From: Micky
Subject: OT bank notification of debit card use, continued
Date: Fri, 05 May 2017 00:24:22 +0300
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)


Stay home in your "safe Place" and never leave.

On 05/05/2017 8:09 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
....

Not a fan. Good thing you had enough cash in the account but maybe
traveling is a good time to use credit cards.

+1

And, of course, the second rule is to have at _least_ two with sizable
limits, "just in case"...

--

On 5/5/17 11:46 AM, dpb wrote:
On 05/05/2017 8:09 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
...

Not a fan. Good thing you had enough cash in the account but maybe
traveling is a good time to use credit cards.

+1

And, of course, the second rule is to have at _least_ two with sizable
limits, "just in case"...

Especially if you are going to certain places. I have been going down
to the FL Keys for 12 years and EVERY year I get my card stopped at
least once. This is over 4 different cards during the year. If I call in
and let them know, they say I don't need it w/in continental US and then
I run afoul of the computer. Never have understood why the computer
doesn't note that I go to the same place at the same time every year,
but it doesn't.

On 05/05/2017 4:16 AM, Micky wrote:
....

says
Amount $109.74
Debit/ATM card ending in nnnn
Whe at this brand of gas in this town
....

The ones that tick me off are the ones where the limit is so low can
only half-fill the truck before it cuts off the pump...

At least for that $$ amount can get there with current (US)
prices...what's petrol in UK these days; still roughly same face number
except in liters instead of gallons (iwo, roughly 4X US price)?

That, actually, now that think of it, pretty-much explains the high
limit -- it's a station that must cater to larger vehicles as well as
the tiny little toys most drive over there...with their high prices, 20
gallon or so would add up to quite a tidy sum. (Not what filling up one
of the tractors does, but...)

--

On 5/5/2017 11:46 AM, dpb wrote:
On 05/05/2017 8:09 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
...

Not a fan. Good thing you had enough cash in the account but maybe
traveling is a good time to use credit cards.

+1

And, of course, the second rule is to have at _least_ two with sizable
limits, "just in case"...

Right? I see advice to carry just one card and I think You've
never had your card not readable by some store? It's happened to
me a couple of times, luckily I carry more than one type of card.

nancy

On Fri, 05 May 2017 06:08:35 -0400, wrote:



Why? You have your monthly statement, right? That's what you *should*
be going by.


Why send me alerts if they are just going to be misleading? Why send
alerts about holds if they don't send an alert for the actual charge?
Why send alerts about holds but not call them holds, and why not send
one when the hold is lifted?. One would think email notification
just started 6 months ago and they havent' figured anything out yet.


Questions that you could, perhaps, ask the credit card company ?
Duh Huh ...
John T.

I will. Writing it about it here helps me organize my thoughts, prior
to my assault on the great lump of clay, when I get back to the
States. Lump of clay meaning nothing will change. I did find a
banking forum by bankers for bankers, and one short thread rougly on
this subject, about what was required by law.. Only two answers and
the second was that there is no point to doing more than the law
requires. Of course pleasing the customer might be a reason, but iiuc
he didn't think so.

In article ,
says...

On 5/5/2017 11:46 AM, dpb wrote:
On 05/05/2017 8:09 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
...


And, of course, the second rule is to have at _least_ two with sizable
limits, "just in case"...

Right? I see advice to carry just one card and I think You've
never had your card not readable by some store? It's happened to
me a couple of times, luckily I carry more than one type of card.


Make sure they are different. Like a Master Card and Visa card. I have
been in a place that would only take one kind.

I usually have several cards with me. Seems that each one gives
different ammounts of cash back at different places. One will give 3 %
at a drug store, another will give 3 % at a gas station, and one gives
back 5 % at the choice stores of the month. Then there is the cards for
each store that give cash back only at that store.

On 5/5/2017 1:30 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

says...

Right? I see advice to carry just one card and I think You've
never had your card not readable by some store? It's happened to
me a couple of times, luckily I carry more than one type of card.


Make sure they are different. Like a Master Card and Visa card. I have
been in a place that would only take one kind.

I do carry three kinds. Overkill maybe but I'm covered.

I usually have several cards with me. Seems that each one gives
different ammounts of cash back at different places. One will give 3 %
at a drug store, another will give 3 % at a gas station, and one gives
back 5 % at the choice stores of the month. Then there is the cards for
each store that give cash back only at that store.

After Costco switched to Visa and I also had to replace my Costco
American Express, I took to carrying a cheat sheet (okay, tiny scrap
of paper) to remind me what rewards were better in what type of store.
It's gotten complicated. Nice problem to have.

nancy

On 5/5/2017 10:06 AM, dpb wrote:

Did I say before BOA sucks?



BTW, if I haven't mentioned it before, BOA is terrible...find a "real"
bank.

In case you missed it, dpb mention how much he thinks of BOA. I think
he is wrong calling them terrible. They are not that good to be called
terrible.

On 5/5/2017 12:00 PM, Kurt V. Ullman wrote:


And, of course, the second rule is to have at _least_ two with sizable
limits, "just in case"...

Especially if you are going to certain places. I have been going down
to the FL Keys for 12 years and EVERY year I get my card stopped at
least once. This is over 4 different cards during the year. If I call in
and let them know, they say I don't need it w/in continental US and then
I run afoul of the computer. Never have understood why the computer
doesn't note that I go to the same place at the same time every year,
but it doesn't.



I go on line and give the travel information but did have a problem one
time.

I did have an episode last week though. I carry two Shell cards. One
is a company card, the other personal. Stopped for gas and swiped the
card and entered the zip code. Said it was incorrect. OK, maybe a
typo, put it in again. Nope, third try refused it. Use a Visa instead.
A hundred miles later, it clicked. I swiped the company card instead
of my personal card, duh!

On 05/05/2017 4:03 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
....

In case you missed it, dpb mention how much he thinks of BOA. I think he
is wrong calling them terrible. They are not that good to be called
terrible.

Chuckles...

When they closed the branch here the college Foundation had a couple of
large CDs on file (BOA had bought out the preceding which had bought the
one prior to that and in turn, but initially was a locally-owned bank so
we had kept the CDs there in respect to the "local" presence) that they
held the certificates.

Instead of letting us know/offer the opportunity to choose to hold them
ourselves or redeem them or whatever, they packed them up with the
office furniture and everything else and moved it to storage some 200 mi
away.

When they were coming up for renewal, we started making inquiries at
least two months in advance...it took every bit of that and more before
they were able to find them and then we ended up having to drive almost
100 mi to the last remaining branch left open west of Wichita to cash
them out...

--

On Fri, 5 May 2017 09:09:33 -0400, Nancy Young
wrote:

On 5/5/2017 5:46 AM, Micky wrote:
On Thu, 4 May 2017 22:04:48 -0400, Nancy Young
wrote:

I had the same thing happen with a hotel, they reserve some amount
of money in case you charge things to the room or steal the towels,
whatever.

Of course, that was a credit card in my case. The pending charge
disappeared after a few days.

Serious questions:

Did the bank send you an email alert about the hold? (Well, do you
have it set up for email alerts at all?)

I tried the email thing once and it was just annoying so I turned
off that option. Really I have no idea if they would have notified
me of a block of credit on hold.

Well, the point is not to remind me of what I spent, but to know if
someone is using my card-number. Not very likely, but that's why I do
it. It also makes it easier to note what each charge is for because
it almost always comes the day I spend the money, even when I'm in
Europe. If I wait until the end of the month, I won't know what any
of the charges are.

But now that I see there is little relationship between what they
email me and what they charge me, to a great extent is worse than
nothing. I guess the grocery stores get it right. And if anyone else
were using the number, I'd know about it.


I knew this was common practice in some industries but I never
noticed it in action before.

Did the alert call it a hold or use the same words they use for an
actual charge?

Did they send another email when the hold was lifted? Sending the
first but not the second is like sending a letter, "Your baby has been
kidnapped" and then never saying when your 2-month old child who can't
walk to a telephone and can't use a telephone is released.

Did the bank send an alert about the final actual charge from the
hotel?

I only noticed the pending charge because I checked my statement
for some other reason. I use a credit card so it doesn't overly
concern me as I can dispute it later. If I used a debit card I'd
be checking all the time because the money would disappear from my
account if there was fraud.

I asked BoAmerica once if I could dispute a debit card charge, and
I'm not sure but I think I was told yes. But it may well vary by
bank.

This is what one of the boa webpages says:

"How do I dispute a transaction on my ATM or debit card?

We recommend that you contact the merchant prior to calling us about a
dispute as it's generally faster and simpler for you to attempt to
resolve the question with the merchant directly before going through
the dispute process. [I'm sure that's usually true.]

To dispute a debit card transaction, please call us at 877.366.1121."

Of course, this doesn't actually say you can get your money back. I
wouldn't put it past them to have a dispute process where you can't
win, or if you win you don't get your money back. I don't trust boa
at all. Did you hear how they would reorder checks so that if a
customer was going to be overdrawn, they'd put the big checks first,
regardless of what order they came in on, so he'd run out of money on
the first check or two and the maximum number would bounce.

Wells Fargo did the same thing. I consider it outright stealing.
I think they paid a big fine but they should have gone to jail for a
couple years.

Not a fan. Good thing you had enough cash in the account but maybe
traveling is a good time to use credit cards.

I have two credit cards with me. I thought I decided to carry one of
them, but it's still in my suitcase in my room. And today, a closed
gas station woudln't take my card. Don't know why. I can't
understand the language on the pump's screen, and the girl I got to
help me didn't know enough English to translate. (She had had trouble
too, at first and had asked me for help.)

nancy

On Fri, 5 May 2017 09:03:23 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:


"Micky" wrote in message
.. .
OT bank notification of debit card use, continued

First, is there a newsgroup that specializes in banking, or commerce,
or business, or anything for which this would be on-topic? And
where people might know the answer to what I think is a very strange
question?

Some of you may remember that I get notifications from the bank every
time my charge card is used a) to charge more than some amount, maybe
$100, or b) to buy something outside the 50 states.

And you may remember my complaining about being charged $110 for a car
that only holds 10 gallons of gasoline, when every other gas station
charged between 50 and 57. Did I mention that the overcharge
happened twice, 110.19 and 109.74.

So today I went to the gas station and showed him a copy of the email
the bank sent me, and said, What do you think abouty that? We dont'
speak each other's language but he knows a little English and he said
"You didn't pay that". I assumed he was referring to the foreign
exchange commission, and I pointed out that no other gas station had
charged more than 57. He also got the guy who works behind the
counter, whose English was pretty good, and all he did was say the
same thing and give me the gas station chain's phone number.

But by the time I got back, it was after 5, so I called the bank in
the US.

(BTW, it used to be very hard to call an 800 number in the US, but
with Skype you can call it like any other number. You still pay the
2.3 cents a minute for Skype, but you'd have to do that anyhow and you
don't have to convert 800 to 8nn like you used to, (and in years
before that, you had to find their non-800 number) .

So the girl at the bank, who seemed a little flighty, told me that on
April 3, I hadn't paid $110.19, only $44.76, and on
April 10, I hadn't paid $109.74, only $34.36. Plus in each case
about 1.30 transaction fee.

I didnt' believe that, but I looked at the online monthly statement,
and by golly it was true. What's going on? Why are they sending me
emails saying I paid much more money than I did?

And what is the relationship?. The first one is 2.46 times the real
charge, but the second is 3.19 times the real charge!!

Now I have to go look at all the other gas station emails and compare
them with the monthly statement , and with the receipt fromn the gas
station.

For that matter, there are all the non-gas purchases I should compare,
restaurants, grocery stores, museums, and outdoor stuff like zoos.

The rentacar company keeps pinging my debit card account. For the 3rd
time they pinged it for $2400 but so far I think they've only billed
me for $650. I understand why they checked int he first place, and
maybe they put a hold on 2400 but the hold only lasts for a month?????

But the rentacar company doesn't know how long I'll keep the car or
how much damage I will do to it. The 800 extra is the maximum I have
to pay if I damage it (though I was told 550, so there may be a
fight.) But the gas station knows what the bill is 5 minutes after I
start pumping. Why not check or even put on a hold for the largest
tank any car has and then charge the actual amount 5 minutes later.

Simplify your life. Use your card to get a bunch of cash, pay in cash.
When you run out of cash, get more.

I do usually pay cash, certainly almost always in the states. But
here the maximum I can get from a cash machine is afaict about 75
dollars a day. At least that's the biggest number they offer you. At
some machines you can type in your own number if you want, ... I did
get 125 once, but I know when I tried for 200 or was it 250, it
woudln't do it. And it didn't bother to say it might work if I put
in a smaller number. It just "This service is not available to you."

And though the machine is only 4 blocks away, there's no place to
park. I've become like the locals, parking illegally for something
short like this, but I don't like it.

On Fri, 05 May 2017 16:48:31 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/05/2017 4:03 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
...

In case you missed it, dpb mention how much he thinks of BOA. I think he
is wrong calling them terrible. They are not that good to be called
terrible.

Chuckles...

When they closed the branch here the college Foundation had a couple of
large CDs on file (BOA had bought out the preceding which had bought the
one prior to that and in turn, but initially was a locally-owned bank so
we had kept the CDs there in respect to the "local" presence) that they
held the certificates.

Instead of letting us know/offer the opportunity to choose to hold them
ourselves or redeem them or whatever, they packed them up with the
office furniture and everything else and moved it to storage some 200 mi
away.

Incredible.

When they were coming up for renewal, we started making inquiries at
least two months in advance...it took every bit of that and more before
they were able to find them and then we ended up having to drive almost
100 mi to the last remaining branch left open west of Wichita to cash
them out...

Ugh. Someone told me they were a bad bank. Is that what you think?

On 05/06/2017 5:11 PM, Micky wrote:
....

Ugh. Someone told me they were a bad bank. Is that what you think?

Need you ask?

--

On 05/06/2017 4:57 PM, Micky wrote:
....


I asked BoAmerica once if I could dispute a debit card charge, and
I'm not sure but I think I was told yes. But it may well vary by
bank.
....

The big difference is that CC liability is limited by the FCBA (Fair
Credit Billing Act) while debit card transactions are under EFTA
(Electronic Funds Transfer Act) because it is a direct funds transfer,
not a credit transaction.

The limitations of you liability under the two is quite different--

FCBA

Maximum liability for fraudulent transactions: $50.
Report before fraudulent transaction occurs; $0

Many credit cards promise zero liability for all fraudulent
transactions, but that's not required by law so they can renege or
change the rules at their whim.

EFTA


Maximum liability for fraudulent transactions: UNLIMITED
Reported before unauthorized transactions: $0
Reported within two days: $50
Reported within 60 days: $500
After 60 days: no protection. (IOW, they can get it all)


Most debit card issuers have signed agreement with VISA/MC who
underwrite virtually all issued in the US to extend similar consumer
protection to customers as with CCs. But, again, this is the issuer
voluntarily agreeing to this; it is not required by law.

The biggest difference is what you're already experiencing except in
spades--when a debit card transaction occurs, real _OR_ fraudulent, the
money is gone from your account at that instant and it's up to somebody
else to get it back or you're out.

OTOH, if you dispute a CC transaction before you've paid it, then you're
not out anything out of pocket until the process is resolved.

In the former, you could be totally destitute overnight if somebody got
access to the debit card and even if your ultimate liability is $0,
you've got to go through a recovery process before the money is back in
the account. Meanwhile, the account may have been drained and you've
got other bills to pay and no money to pay with...the snowball effect
can be disastrous.

I will not have a debit card...just too much risk that don't need to
take when CCs are all around without the same issues.

--

On 05/06/2017 7:55 PM, dpb wrote:
....

The biggest difference is what you're already experiencing except in
spades--when a debit card transaction occurs, real _OR_ fraudulent, the
money is gone from your account at that instant and it's up to somebody
else to get it back or you're out.

....

I don't know just how fast these "holds" actually get cleared; I would
presume within minutes if not seconds after the transaction is actually
completed the final billing transaction occurs.

Thus, even though your bank balance really does take such a "ding", it
lasts only a very short time and so unless you're trying to do two
transactions simultaneously, you never really notice.

OTOH, if somebody actually makes a fraudulent transaction, now they've
either got the actual hard cash if it were an ATM withdrawal or the
merchandise or whatever it was and the $$ are gone from your account not
to return _UNTIL_ you make the complaint and go through the process.

If it is really fraud, the chances of them cooperating as BOA suggests
you should do first is, of course, zero. Only in the case of you're
dissatisfied with a purchase or the like does that ever come into play;
probably the least likely occurrence in the real world with gas pump
skimmers and all the other nefarious ways to compromise your security.

Glad to have cheered your day...

--