On 5/6/2017 6:03 PM, Micky wrote:

I do usually pay cash, certainly almost always in the states. But
here the maximum I can get from a cash machine is afaict about 75
dollars a day. At least that's the biggest number they offer you. At
some machines you can type in your own number if you want, ... I did
get 125 once, but I know when I tried for 200 or was it 250, it
woudln't do it. And it didn't bother to say it might work if I put
in a smaller number. It just "This service is not available to you."

And though the machine is only 4 blocks away, there's no place to
park. I've become like the locals, parking illegally for something
short like this, but I don't like it.


You bank may have a limit but puerhaps the machine does too. I can get
$800 a day on mine. Of course is is less in euros ur to the exchange
rate.

On Fri, 05 May 2017 09:06:30 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/05/2017 4:16 AM, Micky wrote:
...

There's no doubt he was the manager. Not sure if the word "owner" was
understood, even though the counter guy seemed to speak v.good
English. "Owner" is the kind of word that varies in meaning
depending on who's using it.

Well, even if he were, it's a franchise operation. The net is I am
certain he has no say in corporate policy regarding the amount set for
coverage on at-pump sales.

I'm going to go to another of their stations to see if it's the same.

But tomorrow I'm going to call them.

You're right, I'm sure, but if it's only a hold and not a debit, the
bank ought to say that. It ought to alert me that way. Instead it
says
Amount $109.74
Debit/ATM card ending in nnnn
Whe at this brand of gas in this town
When: Date
View details, A link which could go straight to the transaction in
the email but instead just goes to Bank of America, where I have to
page to find the transaction, and where I can't find it by looking for
a matching amount because the amounts don't come close to matching.
And where, when I do find the transaction, the added details are
more about me than about them. It doesn't give the amount of the
charge in the original denomination, It does give the lower amount,
$34.36 and it does say:
Description: CHECKCARD 0410 gas compny& town
and a 23-digit number which I guess is the transaction number
Merchant category: Service Stations (with or without Ancillary
Services)
Merchant category code: 5541
Merchant name: the same as on the email alert.
No reference to a prior hold, 5 minutes earlier, that is now released.

And so, as said, it's a temporary inconvenience that you get the
notification; the actual amount is transitory. _Could_ they reprogram
the 'bot? Sure. Are they going to? Most unlikely. It is, after all,
BOA, about the most worthless outfit going for consumer banking.

They're like a bunch of children.

...

It took me weeks to figure it out, and I suppose the other 100's of
thousands of BOA customers who look at the alerts are also wasting
their time trying to figure it out. The gas station manager seemed
to know about it when he said "You didn't pay that."
...

Doesn't seem that difficult; annoying perhaps, but not difficult. The
monthly statement is the final arbiter and you seem to be "whole" in the
end which is all that really matters to BOA.

Did I say before BOA sucks?

BTW, if you don't want the excessive hold, at least most stations will
set an upper limit on the pump if you ask instead of just the "free-pump
fillup".

I don't speak the language. I'm lucky to have learned how to say
"fill 'er up".

If you aren't insistent on topping-off, just go for what
you're certain can take and that's all the charge will be; the pump will
shut off automagically when gets there.

I still don't speak the language!

When gas prices skyrocketed there were so many driveoffs and card limits
exceeded before the limits were enacted the industry reacted and often
over-reacted as this particular one you've encountered. Here, at least,
with the stabilization in prices and the backing off from the most
extreme, the problem has abated and most, if not all, stations are
pretty reasonable.

Actually, the other chains all cause emails to be sent to me that are
always between 50 and 57 dollars, and I think the level of gas left in
my tank when I fill up has varied more than that. So since this
started I've been suspicious that they're putting that amount on hold
also, so I need to compare those emails with the actual charges.

But my reaction when I saw $110 for gas was that gas would be a major
expense like the airplane ticket and renting the room. (The phone has
only been iirc $40 a month, but I bought the wrong phone. It only has
one of the 2 frequencies used for 3G, so I only get 2G I think. Phone
calls work fine, and I figured I wouldn't really need much data, since
I preloaded maps while still in the US, but I forgot or didn't know
about 3 things.
They have an app when you park on the street or in some lots in a
busy area. You have to register (and my landlady put me on her
account) and when you park, you start the app and say you're parking.
It knows where you are and what the rate is for that location at that
time. Then when you leave you tell it you're leaving. Meter maids
go by and somehow they can quickly check if the car parked in the spot
has signed in to the parking app, and if not they give a ticket. I
got one once because Icouldnt' get the app to work and I think it is
about $25. The app didn't work, I think, because I only have 2G.
When it does work, it takes minutes to go from one screen to the next.
When I sign out and leave the parking place, I can be two blocks away
before it comes back with how much I owe.
Google translate has an app that you can point at a sign, or piece
of paper I suppose, and it will copy it, sent it back to Google
Central, and come back with a translation, but that's only worked for
me one time out of about 7. It usually says it can't do it, and I
think that's because it's 2G.
And once in the car, one of the map program, which I thought I had
dl'd the data for, said "Downloading map, 0%" and zero never got
bigger. Again, I think I was 2G.

So next trip I'll get a phone that corresponds to the cell phone
company's requirements, wherever I'm going. My phone was cheap.
LIsted at 120, on sale for 100, and I found it online for 50, but I've
checked and the 3 features it's lacking aren't necessarily on a 300
dollar phone.

1) a magnetometer, so that compass apps will work, though the roads
wind so much that I haven't used the one compass app I have that
works. Also when the sun is shining and it's not too close to noon, I
go by the sun. Plus the phone maps will tell me where I am, and I've
definitely used that. And they will tell me where someplace I enter
into the phone is and I've used that, but i"m not going to let it tell
me when to turn. I hate that. (For one thing with the radio on it's
hard to hear.) Plus my goal is to learn the roads so I know
where I am without external help.

2) FM radio, though when I'm not in the car, I haven't wanted radio.
Beause I'm not home, there are no programss I know in advance I want
to listen to.

3) I guess the third is the right frequencies, but I fear when I get
all 3 of these, there will be something I have now that I won't get.

BTW, if I haven't mentioned it before, BOA is terrible...find a "real" bank.

Wells Fargo was a possibility until I learned they'd been stealing
from customers, literally stealling and a couple people should have
gone to jail, IMO, by reordering checks to pay the largest ones first
to make the greatest number of checks bounce, so they could collecting
bounced check fees. Just like BOA did and was caught a year ealier,
but did WFargo stop then. Noooo. Not until it was caught.

On 5/7/2017 3:27 AM, Micky wrote:

Wells Fargo was a possibility until I learned they'd been stealing
from customers, literally stealling and a couple people should have
gone to jail, IMO, by reordering checks to pay the largest ones first
to make the greatest number of checks bounce, so they could collecting
bounced check fees. Just like BOA did and was caught a year ealier,
but did WFargo stop then. Noooo. Not until it was caught.


Every bank did that. It was common practice so they could nab you on a
$5 check after a big one wiped out the balance.

On 05/07/2017 2:27 AM, Micky wrote:
On Fri, 05 May 2017 09:06:30 -0500, wrote:
....

Well, even if he were, it's a franchise operation. The net is I am
certain he has no say in corporate policy regarding the amount set for
coverage on at-pump sales.

I'm going to go to another of their stations to see if it's the same.

But tomorrow I'm going to call them.
....

I think you're worrying about the wrong thing entirely.

The vendor is going to make the transaction by whatever rule they have
for covering driveoffs/lack of funds/whatever; arguing with them will
get you nowhere.

As noted elsewhere, the large charge, while real on a debit card, will
clear in seconds/minutes resulting in the final net charge on the
monthly bill.

When you get the text and you know you just made a transaction, you can
pretty-much ignore it as you are in possession of the card and using it
at the time. What the service does is alert you if something else
happens on that account and you've _not_ made that transaction; then
"Houston, we have a problem!"

That it would be nice if BOA would reprogram their 'bot to be a little
smarter and cut down on the noise would be _a_good_thing_(tm), but
again, while there's just a tiny bit larger probability than zero that
might happen, making the customer satisfaction complaint/suggestion
can't hurt. Perhaps enough others will as well will get some attention
but BOA is, if anything, not into retail customer services much so
wouldn't hold out much hope in that regards.

There are some other monitoring services that purport to be more
intelligent in their notifications; not sure if they suffer the same
issues regarding debit card charges such as this or not; as said
elsewhere, I don't have any DCs owing to what I see as high(er) risk not
needed to be taken vis a vis CCs so have no data.

--

Sounds like you need to dispatch all this nonsense from yer life, son.
Some folks just can't help but taking the hard road in life, and I think
yer one of 'em.

On Sat, 6 May 2017 21:43:15 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/6/2017 6:03 PM, Micky wrote:

I do usually pay cash, certainly almost always in the states. But
here the maximum I can get from a cash machine is afaict about 75
dollars a day. At least that's the biggest number they offer you. At
some machines you can type in your own number if you want, ... I did
get 125 once, but I know when I tried for 200 or was it 250, it
woudln't do it. And it didn't bother to say it might work if I put
in a smaller number. It just "This service is not available to you."

And though the machine is only 4 blocks away, there's no place to
park. I've become like the locals, parking illegally for something
short like this, but I don't like it.


You bank may have a limit but puerhaps the machine does too. I can get
$800 a day on mine. Of course is is less in euros ur to the exchange
rate.

Today I started high and worked down but and the most I could get was
about $125, at least at the bank 4 blocks away. And that doesn't last
long with restaurants, museums, and other admissions.

The commission is not high, about 3% on v. small amounts but 1%
above... I have to check again.

Back to the gasoline thing, why do they check if your debit or credit
card has enough to pay even for more than will go in your tank, but
if you plan to pay cash, they don't check in advance** to see if you
really have the cash?

Why would their remedy be different? They can hold your card until
they get a Yes, which seems to only take a minute because now they
give the card back to me only a minute, 2 at most, after I give it to
them. So if, after charging the gas, the electronic charge bounces,
they're in the same position they woudl be in if you were going to pay
cash and then didn't have any. **(I'm almost certain they don't
ask for the cash in advance, but I'll check. )

On Sat, 06 May 2017 19:55:53 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/06/2017 4:57 PM, Micky wrote:
...


I asked BoAmerica once if I could dispute a debit card charge, and
I'm not sure but I think I was told yes. But it may well vary by
bank.
...

The big difference is that CC liability is limited by the FCBA (Fair
Credit Billing Act) while debit card transactions are under EFTA
(Electronic Funds Transfer Act) because it is a direct funds transfer,
not a credit transaction.

The limitations of you liability under the two is quite different--

FCBA

Maximum liability for fraudulent transactions: $50.
Report before fraudulent transaction occurs; $0

Many credit cards promise zero liability for all fraudulent
transactions, but that's not required by law so they can renege or
change the rules at their whim.

EFTA


Maximum liability for fraudulent transactions: UNLIMITED
Reported before unauthorized transactions: $0
Reported within two days: $50
Reported within 60 days: $500
After 60 days: no protection. (IOW, they can get it all)

I have to read this in more detail, but assuming it convinces me to
stop using the debit card, doesn't that mean I should also stop
carrying it? OTOH, of course if I lose my wallet I'll notice that
pretty quickly, so maybe the danger with the DebitCard is that it will
be skimmed and the numbers known**. So that would mean not using it
is enough.

**Does skimming get the expiration date and the 3-number code on the
back? If not, how do they use it?


Most debit card issuers have signed agreement with VISA/MC who
underwrite virtually all issued in the US to extend similar consumer
protection to customers as with CCs. But, again, this is the issuer
voluntarily agreeing to this; it is not required by law.

The biggest difference is what you're already experiencing except in
spades--when a debit card transaction occurs, real _OR_ fraudulent, the
money is gone from your account at that instant and it's up to somebody
else to get it back or you're out.

OTOH, if you dispute a CC transaction before you've paid it, then you're
not out anything out of pocket until the process is resolved.

But it seems the result will be the same in the long run. If I lose
the dispute or fail to dispute it, I'll lose the money, debit or
credit. And if I win the dispute, I'll either retain the money or get
it back, and those two are close enough to each other that I'd be
happy either way.

In the former, you could be totally destitute overnight if somebody got
access to the debit card and even if your ultimate liability is $0,

Someone with all his money in the debit account could be, but even now
that I've started keeping more money there, it's never over 4000.
Except during this trip when it is up to 7000^^^. If they were to,
temporarily, get the whole 7000, I'd be very unhappy, but I still have
two credit cards to live on (except I think the charges for cash
advances are very high. ??? But I guess I would have to do it. Yes,
that's the reason I use the debit card, because the only charge for
cash from the ATM is ....see below***

^^^From which is paid my supplemental health insurance, storage unit,
phone, electricity, etc., at least 1200 of bills (for 3 months) back
in the states, But I put more in than I'll need, just in case.

To use a credit card for this, I'd have to take out a cash advance on
the CC for all the cash I expect to need for the whole trip, (or bring
all that cash with me). Or I can get less, but do it several times.
My recollectiion is that there's an initial charge for borrowing the
money that would make doing it several times substantially more
expensive.

So I'm going to predict that you will say to get cash from ATMs *at a
bank^^, as opposed to a gas station etc.* with the debit card and use
the credit card for everything else?????? Am I right about that?

^^On the theory that a bank's ATM won't skim my card

** well it may be mrore that the 1% I said in another post, because I
didn't consider that they might use a penalizing exchange rate, or a
good exchange rate and just not tell me what the local bank charges
for handing out the money. They should charge something. They're not
even my bank.! )


you've got to go through a recovery process before the money is back in
the account. Meanwhile, the account may have been drained and you've
got other bills to pay and no money to pay with...the snowball effect
can be disastrous.

One of the advantages of being thrifty all my life (and not having a
wife or children, and not having great economic losses) is that I'm
very far from this situation. I calculated roughtly that I have
enough money (though conceivably not enough interest or energy) to
take 11 week vacations like this every year.^^^^. (When I was working
full time, of coursse I couldnt' take vacations over 2 weeks, but I'm
70 y.o. now and in great health except overweight and back hurts
sometimes.) But even this trip is cheap by, for example, my
brother's standards. He's still working, and makes a lot more money
than I did. For me, this trip was under 1000 for the air fare, 1600
for the car, 2200 for the rented room^^^, maybe 500 for gasoline , 220
for the phone (plus 18 for 3 months of a skype number**** and an
undeteterminable amount for restaurants and grocery food to eat at
"home" (and in the car.) . So that's 5550 plus food for 11 weeks. .


^^^And there were cheaper rooms. I should have started serious
looking 6 weeks in advance. Instead it was 4.5. I wrote 4 emails to
craigslist people, 3 replied, one could handle only parts of the time
I wanted, one was never going to be there, and at 3.4 weeks I panicked
and took the one that was expensive. I should have started earlier
or sent more emails, though there were not, for example, 10 good
choices. Maybe 6 or 7, but new ones every couple days.

^^^^It's hard to calculate how much it will eat into my savings and
how much that will decrease the income on my savings. Compound
interest in reverse. And how long I will live and if I'll be very
sick for a while, need nursing care or nursing home. I guess I
should look into long-term care insurance to take some (or could it be
all?) of the uncertainty out of that expense.

**** I only mention Skype because it was a really good investment if
you have people to give the number to who might call you. But what is
interesting is that Verizon dumped its email on AOL, which I think it
owns, and it expected me to reregister and confirm my identity with a
phone number, and it only gave 10 spaces for numbers. No way online
for it to call a foreign number. But the Skype number worked fine
(for a phone call. First I tried twice to get them to text me. Later
I saw that Skype on the PC won't accept texts, but the phone is
supposed to. The phone has Skype that also rings when I get a call,
but the texts never showed up. But like I say, the phone call
worked.

I will not have a debit card...just too much risk that don't need to
take when CCs are all around without the same issues.

On Sat, 06 May 2017 20:12:31 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/06/2017 7:55 PM, dpb wrote:
...

The biggest difference is what you're already experiencing except in
spades--when a debit card transaction occurs, real _OR_ fraudulent, the
money is gone from your account at that instant and it's up to somebody
else to get it back or you're out.

...

I don't know just how fast these "holds" actually get cleared; I would
presume within minutes if not seconds after the transaction is actually
completed the final billing transaction occurs.

I tried to call the local gasoline company today, to learn about
their end of things (The gas station guy gave me their number, told me
to call them, and he's right.) but I couldn't get the phone to work.
My landlady/roommate told me it's a toll-free number but it's one
can't call from a cell phone!!!! So tomorrow I'll use her home phone.

Thus, even though your bank balance really does take such a "ding", it
lasts only a very short time and so unless you're trying to do two
transactions simultaneously, you never really notice.

OTOH, if somebody actually makes a fraudulent transaction, now they've
either got the actual hard cash if it were an ATM withdrawal

For that, they'd need the actual card. Which indeed I could lose,
but they'd also need the PIN (which is memorized and not written on
the card.)

or the
merchandise or whatever it was and the $$ are gone from your account not
to return _UNTIL_ you make the complaint and go through the process.

This is btw, why I want those email alerts, not to read about my
purchases but about whoever that guy is who's spending my money.

If it is really fraud, the chances of them cooperating as BOA suggests
you should do first is, of course, zero.

Good point. I think I was carried away with the fact that in this
case, it wasn't fraud and the merchant ... well he didn't have a good
explanation since he could barely speak English, but he pointed me to
one.

Only in the case of you're
dissatisfied with a purchase or the like does that ever come into play;
probably the least likely occurrence in the real world with gas pump
skimmers and all the other nefarious ways to compromise your security.

Yes, the bank is mostly just saying "Go away, kid. You bother me."

But it's not because of the bank that I went first to the gas station.
I wanted to hear from him first. Glad I did.

Glad to have cheered your day...

And I appreciate it. I'm going to send your original letter to my
niece and nephew for their birthdays.

On Sat, 06 May 2017 19:13:10 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/06/2017 5:11 PM, Micky wrote:
...

Ugh. Someone told me they were a bad bank. Is that what you think?

Need you ask?

It was sarcasm. Or understatement, or something like that.

On 05/07/2017 2:54 PM, Micky wrote:
....

I have to read this in more detail, but assuming it convinces me to
stop using the debit card, doesn't that mean I should also stop
carrying it? OTOH, of course if I lose my wallet I'll notice that
pretty quickly, so maybe the danger with the DebitCard is that it will
be skimmed and the numbers known**. So that would mean not using it
is enough.

**Does skimming get the expiration date and the 3-number code on the
back? If not, how do they use it?

AIUI, the skimming device clones the card data and records your
keystrokes so for them "Yes, Virginia, there _is_ a Santa Claus!" if
your happen to be the lucky one. Of course, on that end, the CC is no
different as being compromised, it's just the difference it consumer
protection rules and how the two physically work that is different.

I'm not trying to convince you or anybody else to do anything; only
point out what is/isn't actually the liability limit by law as opposed
to your issuer's policy which can be changed at their will so I consider
those of much less value than what is actually set in statute.

I'd expect most cards that are lost are actually mislaid by themselves,
not as the complete wallet by some distraction or other mishap during
the process of being used. If that were to occur, the two-day thing
might not be all that long altho I'll grant 60 days surely ought to not
be difficult to manage; again, though, just pointing out that the limits
established by statute are different.
....

So I'm going to predict that you will say to get cash from ATMs *at a
bank^^, as opposed to a gas station etc.* with the debit card and use
the credit card for everything else?????? Am I right about that?
....

I'm apparently at least a couple years ahead of you and I've not used an
ATM in my life and expect to meet my maker in that virgin state--I've
just never had desperately needed cash-in-hand...of course, in normal
business all farm transactions are on account for everything I buy so I
don't have any need for cash except for the mornings I make it to the
donut shop for coffee klatch...

A prime reason besides the above limits/that they are debit factors is
that I simply don't want to have to remember a PIN. When the local bank
didn't want to convert the DB to CC for the convenience, I had it
canceled and have never looked back. That was 15+ year ago...

I've not dealt with an extended overseas stay; the several times for
work were only a couple weeks at a time. That by now has been almost 20
year ago now as Dad passed the week we got back from the last and we
came back to the farm following that and I quit the consulting gig after
finishing up the last 18-months or so of backlog. Back then, you dealt
with it with traveler's checks; I suppose they're now about as common as
the dodo bird, too.

I'd have trouble with the parking lot as well as I don't have a smart
mobile device that would work with their app, 3G reception or not...

--

On 5/7/2017 3:08 PM, Micky wrote:

Back to the gasoline thing, why do they check if your debit or credit
card has enough to pay even for more than will go in your tank, but
if you plan to pay cash, they don't check in advance** to see if you
really have the cash?

They certainly do. Many stations take the money up front and set the
pump to give only what you paid for.

On 5/7/2017 4:04 PM, Micky wrote:
On Sat, 06 May 2017 20:12:31 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/06/2017 7:55 PM, dpb wrote:
...

The biggest difference is what you're already experiencing except in
spades--when a debit card transaction occurs, real _OR_ fraudulent, the
money is gone from your account at that instant and it's up to somebody
else to get it back or you're out.

...

I don't know just how fast these "holds" actually get cleared; I would
presume within minutes if not seconds after the transaction is actually
completed the final billing transaction occurs.

I tried to call the local gasoline company today, to learn about
their end of things (The gas station guy gave me their number, told me
to call them, and he's right.) but I couldn't get the phone to work.
My landlady/roommate told me it's a toll-free number but it's one
can't call from a cell phone!!!! So tomorrow I'll use her home phone.

Thus, even though your bank balance really does take such a "ding", it
lasts only a very short time and so unless you're trying to do two
transactions simultaneously, you never really notice.

OTOH, if somebody actually makes a fraudulent transaction, now they've
either got the actual hard cash if it were an ATM withdrawal

For that, they'd need the actual card. Which indeed I could lose,
but they'd also need the PIN (which is memorized and not written on
the card.)

For cash you need the PIN, but you can use it as a credit card to buy
merchandise. Under $50 or so you don't even sign for it.

On Sun, 07 May 2017 18:00:02 -0500, dpb wrote:


I'd have trouble with the parking lot as well as I don't have a smart
mobile device that would work with their app, 3G reception or not...

Not just the lots but the on-street parking too, on the commercial
streets and sometimes elsewhere. But I've decided that even if the
parking were free, it's easier to turn on to a side street and drive
until there's a parking place than it is to find a parking place on
one of the busy commercial streets.

There are also 3 more icons representing places to use the app but I
don't remember what they are.

On Sun, 7 May 2017 19:47:40 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/7/2017 3:08 PM, Micky wrote:

Back to the gasoline thing, why do they check if your debit or credit
card has enough to pay even for more than will go in your tank, but
if you plan to pay cash, they don't check in advance** to see if you
really have the cash?

They certainly do. Many stations take the money up front and set the
pump to give only what you paid for.

I forgot about that, because in the states I use the debit card all
the time (I'll have to check if I get emails about more money than I
actually spend at US gas stations, self-service. The only place near
me with service is New Jersey, where the law requires them to give
service.)

But here, one guy told me that you don't have to pay in advance. Glad
you reminded me I might be wrong. I'll check on that some more. But
even if it's the same here, that doesn't change the fact that they
send notices and call them "transactions" when they are only holds,
they don't say either in the email or in a later email when the hold
is released (it might be 30 days in some cases and that might be why
the car rental keeps doing it again every 30 days) and it doesn't send
one specifying the actual amount charged.

On an earlier occasion, I was talking to BOA when a charge disappeared
(because he couldn't get the pump to work, but it took hours or tens
of hours to disappear), and I asked her, Why didn't I get an email.
She said, We didn't cancel it, the merchant did. This also means it
DID show up on my monthly statement -- I remember that I saw it there
-- even though it was just a hold, unless it was an actual debit that
later got reversed. Either way. That's some hing I can definitely
check out. Usually I buy gas on the way out, or in the middle of the
day, and when I come home I'm tired and I put off buying gas until the
next day. But I can buy it just before I get back here, and see if
the amount at first matches what is on the pump, or is greater.

Transaction: The act of transacting.

Transact:
verb (used with object)
1.to carry on or conduct (business, negotiations, activities, etc.) to
a conclusion or settlement. Synonyms: enact, conclude, settle,
manage, negotiate.

verb (used without object)
2. to carry on or conduct business, negotiations, etc.:
He was ordered to transact only with the highest authorities.

So I'm right. Unless you call a hold a conclusion or settlement, and
I don't, it's not a transaction.

On 05/08/2017 12:32 PM, Micky wrote:
....


Just out of curiosity, which country/countries are you visiting?

Actually it was so long ago had almost forgotten in earlier comment
time...

_MANY_ years go, employer had subsidiaries/cooperative European ventures
in Germany, France, Spain and spent fair amount of time at those
locations, particularly Germany. Was somewhat interesting to we
'Murricans to find the beer on tap dispensers in engineering offices for
a reactor vendor as we would think of a soda fountain in the break room.

While in many ways the German equivalent was much more stringent to deal
with, don't think the NRC would have approved if had tried that in the
VA office!

The more recent (altho as noted, that's now approach 20 year since which
seems impossible to have been already) were all in England/Scotland
altho did take side trip to France one year when youngest daughter was
HS senior; we took her to Paris as she had been fixated on that since a
wee 'un...

--

#New Jersey "ha ha he he
Yes this are Famous words of Mr. Adolf Hitler
Known as Mein Kampf
The best way to take control over a people and control them €œUtterly€� is to
take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand,
tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way the people will not
see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which
these changes cannot be reversed.
These is in existent today you dont believe
Go and live in #NEW JERSEY
My God if there is one: How truth a full this is!!!!

"Micky" wrote in message ...

On Sun, 7 May 2017 19:47:40 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/7/2017 3:08 PM, Micky wrote:

Back to the gasoline thing, why do they check if your debit or credit
card has enough to pay even for more than will go in your tank, but
if you plan to pay cash, they don't check in advance** to see if you
really have the cash?

They certainly do. Many stations take the money up front and set the
pump to give only what you paid for.

I forgot about that, because in the states I use the debit card all
the time (I'll have to check if I get emails about more money than I
actually spend at US gas stations, self-service. The only place near
me with service is New Jersey, where the law requires them to give
service.)

But here, one guy told me that you don't have to pay in advance. Glad
you reminded me I might be wrong. I'll check on that some more. But
even if it's the same here, that doesn't change the fact that they
send notices and call them "transactions" when they are only holds,
they don't say either in the email or in a later email when the hold
is released (it might be 30 days in some cases and that might be why
the car rental keeps doing it again every 30 days) and it doesn't send
one specifying the actual amount charged.

On an earlier occasion, I was talking to BOA when a charge disappeared
(because he couldn't get the pump to work, but it took hours or tens
of hours to disappear), and I asked her, Why didn't I get an email.
She said, We didn't cancel it, the merchant did. This also means it
DID show up on my monthly statement -- I remember that I saw it there
-- even though it was just a hold, unless it was an actual debit that
later got reversed. Either way. That's some hing I can definitely
check out. Usually I buy gas on the way out, or in the middle of the
day, and when I come home I'm tired and I put off buying gas until the
next day. But I can buy it just before I get back here, and see if
the amount at first matches what is on the pump, or is greater.

Transaction: The act of transacting.

Transact:
verb (used with object)
1.to carry on or conduct (business, negotiations, activities, etc.) to
a conclusion or settlement. Synonyms: enact, conclude, settle,
manage, negotiate.

verb (used without object)
2. to carry on or conduct business, negotiations, etc.:
He was ordered to transact only with the highest authorities.

So I'm right. Unless you call a hold a conclusion or settlement, and
I don't, it's not a transaction.