On Sat, 06 May 2017 19:55:53 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/06/2017 4:57 PM, Micky wrote:
...


I asked BoAmerica once if I could dispute a debit card charge, and
I'm not sure but I think I was told yes. But it may well vary by
bank.
...

The big difference is that CC liability is limited by the FCBA (Fair
Credit Billing Act) while debit card transactions are under EFTA
(Electronic Funds Transfer Act) because it is a direct funds transfer,
not a credit transaction.

The limitations of you liability under the two is quite different--

FCBA

Maximum liability for fraudulent transactions: $50.
Report before fraudulent transaction occurs; $0

Many credit cards promise zero liability for all fraudulent
transactions, but that's not required by law so they can renege or
change the rules at their whim.

EFTA


Maximum liability for fraudulent transactions: UNLIMITED
Reported before unauthorized transactions: $0
Reported within two days: $50
Reported within 60 days: $500
After 60 days: no protection. (IOW, they can get it all)

I have to read this in more detail, but assuming it convinces me to
stop using the debit card, doesn't that mean I should also stop
carrying it? OTOH, of course if I lose my wallet I'll notice that
pretty quickly, so maybe the danger with the DebitCard is that it will
be skimmed and the numbers known**. So that would mean not using it
is enough.

**Does skimming get the expiration date and the 3-number code on the
back? If not, how do they use it?


Most debit card issuers have signed agreement with VISA/MC who
underwrite virtually all issued in the US to extend similar consumer
protection to customers as with CCs. But, again, this is the issuer
voluntarily agreeing to this; it is not required by law.

The biggest difference is what you're already experiencing except in
spades--when a debit card transaction occurs, real _OR_ fraudulent, the
money is gone from your account at that instant and it's up to somebody
else to get it back or you're out.

OTOH, if you dispute a CC transaction before you've paid it, then you're
not out anything out of pocket until the process is resolved.

But it seems the result will be the same in the long run. If I lose
the dispute or fail to dispute it, I'll lose the money, debit or
credit. And if I win the dispute, I'll either retain the money or get
it back, and those two are close enough to each other that I'd be
happy either way.

In the former, you could be totally destitute overnight if somebody got
access to the debit card and even if your ultimate liability is $0,

Someone with all his money in the debit account could be, but even now
that I've started keeping more money there, it's never over 4000.
Except during this trip when it is up to 7000^^^. If they were to,
temporarily, get the whole 7000, I'd be very unhappy, but I still have
two credit cards to live on (except I think the charges for cash
advances are very high. ??? But I guess I would have to do it. Yes,
that's the reason I use the debit card, because the only charge for
cash from the ATM is ....see below***

^^^From which is paid my supplemental health insurance, storage unit,
phone, electricity, etc., at least 1200 of bills (for 3 months) back
in the states, But I put more in than I'll need, just in case.

To use a credit card for this, I'd have to take out a cash advance on
the CC for all the cash I expect to need for the whole trip, (or bring
all that cash with me). Or I can get less, but do it several times.
My recollectiion is that there's an initial charge for borrowing the
money that would make doing it several times substantially more
expensive.

So I'm going to predict that you will say to get cash from ATMs *at a
bank^^, as opposed to a gas station etc.* with the debit card and use
the credit card for everything else?????? Am I right about that?

^^On the theory that a bank's ATM won't skim my card

** well it may be mrore that the 1% I said in another post, because I
didn't consider that they might use a penalizing exchange rate, or a
good exchange rate and just not tell me what the local bank charges
for handing out the money. They should charge something. They're not
even my bank.! )


you've got to go through a recovery process before the money is back in
the account. Meanwhile, the account may have been drained and you've
got other bills to pay and no money to pay with...the snowball effect
can be disastrous.

One of the advantages of being thrifty all my life (and not having a
wife or children, and not having great economic losses) is that I'm
very far from this situation. I calculated roughtly that I have
enough money (though conceivably not enough interest or energy) to
take 11 week vacations like this every year.^^^^. (When I was working
full time, of coursse I couldnt' take vacations over 2 weeks, but I'm
70 y.o. now and in great health except overweight and back hurts
sometimes.) But even this trip is cheap by, for example, my
brother's standards. He's still working, and makes a lot more money
than I did. For me, this trip was under 1000 for the air fare, 1600
for the car, 2200 for the rented room^^^, maybe 500 for gasoline , 220
for the phone (plus 18 for 3 months of a skype number**** and an
undeteterminable amount for restaurants and grocery food to eat at
"home" (and in the car.) . So that's 5550 plus food for 11 weeks. .


^^^And there were cheaper rooms. I should have started serious
looking 6 weeks in advance. Instead it was 4.5. I wrote 4 emails to
craigslist people, 3 replied, one could handle only parts of the time
I wanted, one was never going to be there, and at 3.4 weeks I panicked
and took the one that was expensive. I should have started earlier
or sent more emails, though there were not, for example, 10 good
choices. Maybe 6 or 7, but new ones every couple days.

^^^^It's hard to calculate how much it will eat into my savings and
how much that will decrease the income on my savings. Compound
interest in reverse. And how long I will live and if I'll be very
sick for a while, need nursing care or nursing home. I guess I
should look into long-term care insurance to take some (or could it be
all?) of the uncertainty out of that expense.

**** I only mention Skype because it was a really good investment if
you have people to give the number to who might call you. But what is
interesting is that Verizon dumped its email on AOL, which I think it
owns, and it expected me to reregister and confirm my identity with a
phone number, and it only gave 10 spaces for numbers. No way online
for it to call a foreign number. But the Skype number worked fine
(for a phone call. First I tried twice to get them to text me. Later
I saw that Skype on the PC won't accept texts, but the phone is
supposed to. The phone has Skype that also rings when I get a call,
but the texts never showed up. But like I say, the phone call
worked.

I will not have a debit card...just too much risk that don't need to
take when CCs are all around without the same issues.