I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be installed in
our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?

Howie

"Howie" wrote in message
...
I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be installed
in
our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?

Howie



Google. This gets asked 200 times a month it seems.

Bottom line, make it easy for you:

The installer, not the brand, makes the difference.

Do not let anyone install the unit that does not perform a manual J, and D
or T (heat pump calc) on your home to insure it is sized correctly, as there
ARE NO RULES OF THUMB in this trade.

Verify licence, and insurance.

Hi Ace, hope you are having a nice day

On 14-Jun-04 At About 03:41:12, Ace AC and Heating wrote to All
Subject: buying/installing new central air conditioning

AAaH From: Ace AC and Heating

AAaH On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 07:45:51 -0600, "Howie" wrote:

AAaH I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be
AAaH installed in our 850 sq. ft home... any advice? Howie

AAaH The rule of thumb is you use a 2 ton system for your size home.

AAaH Ace

This is exactly WRONG!! there is no rule of thumb. you need to run a proper
manual J to get the proper size system.


-= HvacTech2 =-


... "Dad! Dad! Where do you keep your guns?" -- Calvin

___ TagDude 0.92á+[DM]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
spam protection measure, Please remove the 33 to send e-mail

"CBHVAC" same @as.it.was.com wrote:


"Howie" wrote in message
...
I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be installed
in
our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?

Howie



Google. This gets asked 200 times a month it seems.

Bottom line, make it easy for you:

The installer, not the brand, makes the difference.

Do not let anyone install the unit that does not perform a manual J, and D
or T (heat pump calc) on your home to insure it is sized correctly, as there
ARE NO RULES OF THUMB in this trade.

Where can I, as a home owner, find out more about this manual J & D
thingy, and the info required?

I'm wondering what info is required, since I've got a bunch of
electronic equipment that heats things up, which of course, needs to be
factored in.

Currently, I'm working on venting, and making sure there is air outlets
and returns in the rooms, but a new main unit is planned.

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 07:45:51 -0600, "Howie" wrote:

I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be installed in
our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?

Howie


The rule of thumb is you use a 2 ton system for your size home.

Ace

"Howie" wrote in message
...
I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be installed
in
our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?

Howie

Get the best installer you and find. Then the highest seer that you can
afford.
Try this site for comparisons.

http://198.147.238.24/ac_calc/default.asp

Granted you do not have an system now but you can look at cost/savings
pretty easily.

Attic insulation is always a good idea and pretty reasonable compared to
some of the other things a home needs.

Forget what www.AceACandhackboyheatingco.com says . Get a load calc
done there is No rule of thumb unless you are a hackboy,
Gee Ace is the house in northern Minnisota with r 40 sips walls and
r80 sips ceilings with tri pane glass in the shade getting a lake
breese where a ton could be overkill, or in a desert in sun with r-1
in attic and no r in walls with single pane aluminum frames all facing
south where 3 ton is a possibility.
Gee Ace Hack I have high R , tri pane, dual pane, 1200 sq in the shade
and my 2 ton is to big , yes i need to run 2 dehumififiers and im
near Chgo. Yep im in the shade on a lake.

John Hines wrote:
"CBHVAC" same @as.it.was.com wrote:


"Howie" wrote in message
...
I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be
installed in our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?

Howie



Google. This gets asked 200 times a month it seems.

Bottom line, make it easy for you:

The installer, not the brand, makes the difference.

Do not let anyone install the unit that does not perform a manual J,
and D or T (heat pump calc) on your home to insure it is sized
correctly, as there ARE NO RULES OF THUMB in this trade.

Where can I, as a home owner, find out more about this manual J & D
thingy, and the info required?

I'm wondering what info is required, since I've got a bunch of
electronic equipment that heats things up, which of course, needs to
be factored in.

Currently, I'm working on venting, and making sure there is air
outlets and returns in the rooms, but a new main unit is planned.

Don't start doing anything until you have the contractor do the manuals
and look everything over. While you might be able to find and do the manual
calculations, you lack the experience and other knowledge to put the whole
picture together.

Your part is to find a good contractor and let them do their job. It is
sort of like finding a doctor. You might be able to find a book on brain
surgery, but it is not a do it yourself thing. I admit there is a
difference between the two, but you really do want a pro in both cases.


--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Ace AC and Heating" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 07:45:51 -0600, "Howie" wrote:

I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be installed
in
our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?

Howie


The rule of thumb is you use a 2 ton system for your size home.

Ace



Really numbnuts? Rule of thumb? Where?
There are no rules of thumb in HVAC..NONE...only that most observant
contractors still have two, and havent lost one.

If that home is in Palm Springs CA, and on the third story of a condo unit,
it MIGHT take 4 tons...even 5.....you dont know.


In all seriousness, this Ace fella is no ace...hes a hack if he believes
what he wrote for a second.

"John Hines" wrote in message
news
"CBHVAC" same @as.it.was.com wrote:


"Howie" wrote in message
...
I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be
installed
in
our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?

Howie



Google. This gets asked 200 times a month it seems.

Bottom line, make it easy for you:

The installer, not the brand, makes the difference.

Do not let anyone install the unit that does not perform a manual J, and
D
or T (heat pump calc) on your home to insure it is sized correctly, as
there
ARE NO RULES OF THUMB in this trade.

Where can I, as a home owner, find out more about this manual J & D
thingy, and the info required?

Manual J, is a standard heat loss/gain program. It allows the contractor,
after measuring each room of your home, figuring the total construction
values, type of window, glass, doors, number of doors, sliders fireplaces,
ETC, basically the entire structure, to know exactly how many BTUs will need
to be given, or taken from each and every room that is in the home to
maintain a set temp, regardless of the outdoor temp, to a point.
Manual T, is the same, only it is for heat pumps.
Manual D is the calculation that takes into consideration the type of duct
system that the contractor will install, the material it is made of, and the
total effective length of each run, that will properly size each and every
duct that feeds from the unit to each room, that will allow the unit to
maintain its optimal static pressure, and each duct will have the proper
volume, and velocity to deliver the needed BTUs, or to remove the needed
BTUs from each room. It takes into consideration the unit, the coil, wet and
dry, each and every bend, the registers, the type of filter and filter
grille, grille face velocitys and such.

You might find info on the net, but to be perfectly honest with you, I tend
to trust the manuals that I am required to have...it takes a bit longer to
do them on paper, and I do at times use a program on the laptops to verify
that I didnt make a mistake somewhere since its not a walk in the park, but
I just dont really 100% trust the computer programs...nor alot of the info
you may or may not find on the net...I trust what ACCA states...thats it.


I'm wondering what info is required, since I've got a bunch of
electronic equipment that heats things up, which of course, needs to be
factored in.

In a nutshell roughly:

Each rooms dimensions, including ceiling, and ceiling height.
Drywall thickness,
Insulation values, and failing that, type and thickness
Window sizes, and type of glass, single, double, triple pane etc, and if its
a Low E construction.
Wall type
Frame, or mason construction
Number and size of every door to the outside, including sliders
Direction the home faces, N, S, E or W.
Direction each door and window faces,
Total running wall
Area below grade, (basement) or if the home is partially built below grade
Slab, or non slab construction
Roof construction, and color
Any shade, natural, or manmade..
# of fireplaces, (air infiltration)
CFM of outside air that may be brought in, such as from a bathroom fan, or
dryer, or kitchen vent fan.
# of people that will live in the home, + 1 or 2 additional if you entertain
or have family or friends over often. (each person adds 300 BTU, or more)
In the event of a computer room, number of units total, and types...
Location geographically of the home
Number of Degree Days for your area
Percentage of RH...normally now figured at 55%, can be figured as 50% in
residential, but 55 is the accepted standard now.

You take all that and some more, run the numbers, and depending on the
actual design, construction, and location of the home, your tonnage may vary
greatly.
We recently did a fairly large home, on slab, that had R80 ceilings, and R60
walls, and when it all got figured, the number of BTUs were very small
cmpared to a standard home. Matter of fact, it worried me so bad that I ran
the numbers 4 X to make 100% sure I had not made a mistake at some
point...and sure enough, 2 years later, the homeowners cant be happier.


Theres actually more, but its all factored in as you go.


Currently, I'm working on venting, and making sure there is air outlets
and returns in the rooms, but a new main unit is planned.

You cant do the returns and supplies, till the load calculation is complete.
If you are using gas as a heating source, the gas line has its own
calculation that must be done.

ANYONE that is going over the plans, and starts quoting prices and tonnages
needs to be dropped....period.
Some will charge for the calculations..make sure that if they get the job,
that is no longer a charge, and given back to you in some form, be it a
rebate of sorts from teh contractor.

"CBHVAC" same @as.it.was.com wrote in message
...

"Ace AC and Heating" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 07:45:51 -0600, "Howie" wrote:

I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be
installed
in
our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?

Howie


The rule of thumb is you use a 2 ton system for your size home.

Ace



Really numbnuts? Rule of thumb? Where?
There are no rules of thumb in HVAC..NONE...only that most observant
contractors still have two, and havent lost one.

If that home is in Palm Springs CA, and on the third story of a condo
unit,
it MIGHT take 4 tons...even 5.....you dont know.


In all seriousness, this Ace fella is no ace...hes a hack if he believes
what he wrote for a second.


Any suggestions on how to figure in the additional cooling load a 7.5 kw
hydraulic pump would create when operating within a shop building ??

Basically, its operating against a pressure relief most of the time--and
only rarely doing any actual mechanical work......so Im thinking probly best
to treat it as though it were a resistance heater having roughly the same kw
rating.

I do know it adds a significant amount of heat inside the building during
the summertime.

--

SVL

Theres actually more, but its all factored in as you go.


I'm sure there is, which is why I'm sure all the data is collected. For
example, I've already measured nearly 2k of additional heat load that
isn't common.

Currently, I'm working on venting, and making sure there is air outlets
and returns in the rooms, but a new main unit is planned.

You cant do the returns and supplies, till the load calculation is complete.
If you are using gas as a heating source, the gas line has its own
calculation that must be done.

At this point, I'm opening up floors and walls, I've not run anything
new.

The old ductwork ran a single outlet to the bedroom in the addition,
with no return, and braced the ductwork with concrete blocks and rocks
in the crawlspace.

I simply figure the existing return which is run in the wall (no
ductwork) can be opened on both sides

ANYONE that is going over the plans, and starts quoting prices and tonnages
needs to be dropped....period.

No, at this point I'm planning the big picture.

Some will charge for the calculations..make sure that if they get the job,
that is no longer a charge, and given back to you in some form, be it a
rebate of sorts from teh contractor.

Good idea. I've already expanded my thinking to include some pro duct
work.

'I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be
installed in our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?
Howie'

ME: Thats like saying that youre going to the Donut Shop...any advice
?! How elaborate do u want to go on this purchase...do u want a brand
everyone will recognize and pay thru the nose, how long will you live
in your house, how much do u use a/c , etc etc.... My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave




"Hey....have you hugged your Guage-Manifold today ?!"

Yea Be like Dave, Dont look into Inflated prices on Carrier Variable
speed DC motors on the air handler that will increase seer by 1 seer or
can use a humidistat- thermostat that can run on humidistat and remove
twice the amount of water a regular unit will. Or will save on your
electric bill even in winter. Or that can have fan speed programed at
the thermostat.

Thats what im getting in a week , Carrier. Because no other can do
all that as cheaply. It comes down to comfort.

"Dave HVACowner" wrote in message
...
'I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be
installed in our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?
Howie'

ME: Thats like saying that youre going to the Donut Shop...any advice
?! How elaborate do u want to go on this purchase...do u want a brand
everyone will recognize and pay thru the nose, how long will you live
in your house, how much do u use a/c , etc etc.... My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave


Owner of an AC unit. A HVAC unit. He don't know squat about working on it,
but he does own it until the bank takes it away....

I very much agree on the Carrier observation. I had quite a number of
them in my rental units (a friend is a dealer), and they've been a big
maintenance problem, well, not any more,
most of them are gone by now. Short life span, cheap materials, corrosion,
vibration, noisy, etc, etc .. Never again.
Bill

"Dave HVACowner" wrote: My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave

"Dave HVACowner" wrote in message
...
'I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be
installed in our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?
Howie'

ME: Thats like saying that youre going to the Donut Shop...any advice
?! How elaborate do u want to go on this purchase...do u want a brand
everyone will recognize and pay thru the nose, how long will you live
in your house, how much do u use a/c , etc etc.... My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave




"Hey....have you hugged your Guage-Manifold today ?!"



Dave:

In all seriousness, explain something to me...really...

Why is it that you suggest Goodman/Janitrol ****, that the customer is gonna
hate you for IF he even takes you serious for a moment, and suggest that we
real contractors can not get name brand, better quality equipment for less?
I mean...Goodman is playing hell with that stupid lifetime warranty on the
compressors..you DO know that right? Someone gets to pay for each units
average 15 years of compressors...thats at least an extra $400 per
unit...geeeeeee....is that why I can by Trane units for less than a Goodman?
Is that why that when a customer asks about the new York Infinitys the
initial price is a bit high, but the quality is there...and that sells
it..can you stand on top of a Goodman and feel safe? The new Infinity grille
for the fan is so strong, it can support more than 300lbs....and ask me how
I know this...
BTW...York isnt a big advertiser....nor is alot of companies this year....I
can buy Carrier units for less than a Goodman here...wonder why?
Umm....market perhaps? Sales are slack? Could it be..GASP...that the
lifetime warranty on select units is catching up to them? How about that new
Amana warranty.....lifetime UNIT replacement....does that mean anything to
you?
I tell you what it means...alot of mis-informed customers are going to buy
complete and utter garbage, installed by a bunch of guys like you and are
going to regret the day they let you in the house.
BTW...you are not the owner of any legitimate HVAC company. If you are, post
total proof, and I will appologize in public...otherwise, stop making the
people in the trade look bad..
Post your licence number....you know its the law that if you are asked for
it you have to give it to them..you dont have to do it here...you can email
it to me....
While you are at it, I want to see proof of insurance.

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Yea Be like Dave, Dont look into Inflated prices on Carrier Variable
speed DC motors on the air handler that will increase seer by 1 seer or
can use a humidistat- thermostat that can run on humidistat and remove
twice the amount of water a regular unit will. Or will save on your
electric bill even in winter. Or that can have fan speed programed at
the thermostat.

Thats what im getting in a week , Carrier. Because no other can do
all that as cheaply. It comes down to comfort.


Dave doesn't like things he doesn't understand. He has no idea why prices
on Carrier, Trane, and the like are higher. It's about received value, not
how cheap of equipment can you put in. Dave doesn't understand that
contractors that are dealers for many brands of equipment spend many
advertising dollars to supplement the conservative national ad campaign.
Dave doesn't understand the value of supplier to dealer loyalty and the
benefits that are passed on to the customer as a result. In fact, it
appears clear that Dave doesn't understand jack.

- Robert

"bill allemann" wrote in message
...
I very much agree on the Carrier observation. I had quite a number of
them in my rental units (a friend is a dealer), and they've been a big
maintenance problem, well, not any more,
most of them are gone by now. Short life span, cheap materials,
corrosion,
vibration, noisy, etc, etc .. Never again.
Bill

Most likely due to poor installation and/or poor maintenance. There is no
perfect brand but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if your problem stretched
over several units that it was not a quality problem with the unit. A
quality installation can make even a cheapo Goodman last quite a while with
only minor problems. (i.e. Fan relays, contactors, capacitors, and the many
other low grade parts that Goodman uses.)

- Robert



"Dave HVACowner" wrote: My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave

"Ace AC and Heating" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 07:45:51 -0600, "Howie" wrote:

I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be installed
in
our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?

Howie


The rule of thumb is you use a 2 ton system for your size home.

Ace

Hey, John.........just looky here.......a HACK showed up already!!

This is the type of contractor you should run from, FAST!!

~kjpro~

BTW Manuel J & D................PERIOD!!

"Ace AC and Heating" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 07:45:51 -0600, "Howie" wrote:

I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be installed
in
our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?

Howie


The rule of thumb is you use a 2 ton system for your size home.

Ace

Hey, John.........just looky here.......a HACK showed up already!!

This is the type of contractor you should run from, FAST!!

~kjpro~

BTW Manuel J & D................PERIOD!!

"Dave HVACowner" wrote in message
...
'I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be
installed in our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?
Howie'

ME: Thats like saying that youre going to the Donut Shop...any advice
?! How elaborate do u want to go on this purchase...do u want a brand
everyone will recognize and pay thru the nose, how long will you live
in your house, how much do u use a/c , etc etc.... My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave

This is the second IDIOT to stay away from!!

Goodman, Janitrol is JUNK, low end TRASH!!

"Hey....have you hugged your Guage-Manifold today ?!"

This DAVE is An IDIOT that can NOT spell the tools used in the trade, let
alone know how to use them.

~kjpro~

BTW, check with friends, relatives, co-workers, neighbors, ask them who they
use and is they're happy.

"Dave HVACowner" wrote in message
...
'I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be
installed in our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?
Howie'

ME: Thats like saying that youre going to the Donut Shop...any advice
?! How elaborate do u want to go on this purchase...do u want a brand
everyone will recognize and pay thru the nose, how long will you live
in your house, how much do u use a/c , etc etc.... My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave

This is the second IDIOT to stay away from!!

Goodman, Janitrol is JUNK, low end TRASH!!

"Hey....have you hugged your Guage-Manifold today ?!"

This DAVE is An IDIOT that can NOT spell the tools used in the trade, let
alone know how to use them.

~kjpro~

BTW, check with friends, relatives, co-workers, neighbors, ask them who they
use and is they're happy.

"American Mechanical" wrote in message
m...

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Yea Be like Dave, Dont look into Inflated prices on Carrier Variable
speed DC motors on the air handler that will increase seer by 1 seer or
can use a humidistat- thermostat that can run on humidistat and remove
twice the amount of water a regular unit will. Or will save on your
electric bill even in winter. Or that can have fan speed programed at
the thermostat.

Thats what im getting in a week , Carrier. Because no other can do
all that as cheaply. It comes down to comfort.


Dave doesn't like things he doesn't understand. He has no idea why prices
on Carrier, Trane, and the like are higher. It's about received value,
not
how cheap of equipment can you put in. Dave doesn't understand that
contractors that are dealers for many brands of equipment spend many
advertising dollars to supplement the conservative national ad campaign.
Dave doesn't understand the value of supplier to dealer loyalty and the
benefits that are passed on to the customer as a result. In fact, it
appears clear that Dave doesn't understand jack.

He knows Jack alright...............JACKOFF that is!!

~kjpro~

- Robert

"American Mechanical" wrote in message
m...

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Yea Be like Dave, Dont look into Inflated prices on Carrier Variable
speed DC motors on the air handler that will increase seer by 1 seer or
can use a humidistat- thermostat that can run on humidistat and remove
twice the amount of water a regular unit will. Or will save on your
electric bill even in winter. Or that can have fan speed programed at
the thermostat.

Thats what im getting in a week , Carrier. Because no other can do
all that as cheaply. It comes down to comfort.


Dave doesn't like things he doesn't understand. He has no idea why prices
on Carrier, Trane, and the like are higher. It's about received value,
not
how cheap of equipment can you put in. Dave doesn't understand that
contractors that are dealers for many brands of equipment spend many
advertising dollars to supplement the conservative national ad campaign.
Dave doesn't understand the value of supplier to dealer loyalty and the
benefits that are passed on to the customer as a result. In fact, it
appears clear that Dave doesn't understand jack.

He knows Jack alright...............JACKOFF that is!!

~kjpro~

- Robert

"American Mechanical" wrote in message
m...

"bill allemann" wrote in message
...
I very much agree on the Carrier observation. I had quite a number of
them in my rental units (a friend is a dealer), and they've been a big
maintenance problem, well, not any more,
most of them are gone by now. Short life span, cheap materials,
corrosion,
vibration, noisy, etc, etc .. Never again.
Bill

Most likely due to poor installation and/or poor maintenance. There is no
perfect brand but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if your problem stretched
over several units that it was not a quality problem with the unit. A
quality installation can make even a cheapo Goodman last quite a while
with
only minor problems. (i.e. Fan relays, contactors, capacitors, and the
many
other low grade parts that Goodman uses.)


Ditto....

~kjpro~


- Robert



"Dave HVACowner" wrote: My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high
efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave

"American Mechanical" wrote in message
m...

"bill allemann" wrote in message
...
I very much agree on the Carrier observation. I had quite a number of
them in my rental units (a friend is a dealer), and they've been a big
maintenance problem, well, not any more,
most of them are gone by now. Short life span, cheap materials,
corrosion,
vibration, noisy, etc, etc .. Never again.
Bill

Most likely due to poor installation and/or poor maintenance. There is no
perfect brand but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if your problem stretched
over several units that it was not a quality problem with the unit. A
quality installation can make even a cheapo Goodman last quite a while
with
only minor problems. (i.e. Fan relays, contactors, capacitors, and the
many
other low grade parts that Goodman uses.)


Ditto....

~kjpro~


- Robert



"Dave HVACowner" wrote: My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high
efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave

Poor installation makes them vibrate, noisy, and rust like crazy. I'll be
darned.


"~KJPRO~" wrote in message
...
"American Mechanical" wrote in message
m...

"bill allemann" wrote in message
...
I very much agree on the Carrier observation. I had quite a number of
them in my rental units (a friend is a dealer), and they've been a big
maintenance problem, well, not any more,
most of them are gone by now. Short life span, cheap materials,
corrosion,
vibration, noisy, etc, etc .. Never again.
Bill

Most likely due to poor installation and/or poor maintenance. There is
no
perfect brand but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if your problem
stretched
over several units that it was not a quality problem with the unit. A
quality installation can make even a cheapo Goodman last quite a while
with
only minor problems. (i.e. Fan relays, contactors, capacitors, and the
many
other low grade parts that Goodman uses.)


Ditto....

~kjpro~


- Robert



"Dave HVACowner" wrote: My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to
their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high
efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave

Poor installation makes them vibrate, noisy, and rust like crazy. I'll be
darned.


"~KJPRO~" wrote in message
...
"American Mechanical" wrote in message
m...

"bill allemann" wrote in message
...
I very much agree on the Carrier observation. I had quite a number of
them in my rental units (a friend is a dealer), and they've been a big
maintenance problem, well, not any more,
most of them are gone by now. Short life span, cheap materials,
corrosion,
vibration, noisy, etc, etc .. Never again.
Bill

Most likely due to poor installation and/or poor maintenance. There is
no
perfect brand but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if your problem
stretched
over several units that it was not a quality problem with the unit. A
quality installation can make even a cheapo Goodman last quite a while
with
only minor problems. (i.e. Fan relays, contactors, capacitors, and the
many
other low grade parts that Goodman uses.)


Ditto....

~kjpro~


- Robert



"Dave HVACowner" wrote: My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to
their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high
efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave

American Mechanical wrote:
"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Yea Be like Dave, Dont look into Inflated prices on Carrier
Variable speed DC motors on the air handler that will increase
seer by 1 seer or can use a humidistat- thermostat that can run
on humidistat and remove twice the amount of water a regular unit
will. Or will save on your electric bill even in winter. Or that
can have fan speed programed at the thermostat.

Thats what im getting in a week , Carrier. Because no other can
do all that as cheaply. It comes down to comfort.


Dave doesn't like things he doesn't understand. He has no idea why
prices on Carrier, Trane, and the like are higher. It's about
received value, not how cheap of equipment can you put in. Dave
doesn't understand that contractors that are dealers for many brands
of equipment spend many advertising dollars to supplement the
conservative national ad campaign. Dave doesn't understand the value
of supplier to dealer loyalty and the benefits that are passed on to
the customer as a result. In fact, it appears clear that Dave
doesn't understand jack.


For dave; a lesson on Jack ****. :-
http://www.bloodrunners.com/jack-****/

--
Pig out on the UKs CHEAPEST utilities + FREE phone calls without
changing your line. : http://tinyurl.com/3ff7m My website is at
http://tinyurl.com/t7tg Watch the PowerPoint Presentation. :-
http://www.geocities.com/spmf38/ServicesPresenterV6.ppt The Ultimate
Blog : http://thebrainspot.blogspot.com


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
It cannot however be idiot-proofed.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.706 / Virus Database: 462 - Release Date: 14/06/2004

American Mechanical wrote:
"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Yea Be like Dave, Dont look into Inflated prices on Carrier
Variable speed DC motors on the air handler that will increase
seer by 1 seer or can use a humidistat- thermostat that can run
on humidistat and remove twice the amount of water a regular unit
will. Or will save on your electric bill even in winter. Or that
can have fan speed programed at the thermostat.

Thats what im getting in a week , Carrier. Because no other can
do all that as cheaply. It comes down to comfort.


Dave doesn't like things he doesn't understand. He has no idea why
prices on Carrier, Trane, and the like are higher. It's about
received value, not how cheap of equipment can you put in. Dave
doesn't understand that contractors that are dealers for many brands
of equipment spend many advertising dollars to supplement the
conservative national ad campaign. Dave doesn't understand the value
of supplier to dealer loyalty and the benefits that are passed on to
the customer as a result. In fact, it appears clear that Dave
doesn't understand jack.


For dave; a lesson on Jack ****. :-
http://www.bloodrunners.com/jack-****/

--
Pig out on the UKs CHEAPEST utilities + FREE phone calls without
changing your line. : http://tinyurl.com/3ff7m My website is at
http://tinyurl.com/t7tg Watch the PowerPoint Presentation. :-
http://www.geocities.com/spmf38/ServicesPresenterV6.ppt The Ultimate
Blog : http://thebrainspot.blogspot.com


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
It cannot however be idiot-proofed.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.706 / Virus Database: 462 - Release Date: 14/06/2004

"CBHVAC" same @as.it.was.com wrote in message
...

"Dave HVACowner" wrote in message
...
'I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be
installed in our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?
Howie'

ME: Thats like saying that youre going to the Donut Shop...any advice
?! How elaborate do u want to go on this purchase...do u want a brand
everyone will recognize and pay thru the nose, how long will you live
in your house, how much do u use a/c , etc etc.... My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave




"Hey....have you hugged your Guage-Manifold today ?!"



Dave:

In all seriousness, explain something to me...really...

Why is it that you suggest Goodman/Janitrol ****, that the customer is
gonna
hate you for IF he even takes you serious for a moment, and suggest that
we
real contractors can not get name brand, better quality equipment for
less?
I mean...Goodman is playing hell with that stupid lifetime warranty on the
compressors..you DO know that right? Someone gets to pay for each units
average 15 years of compressors...thats at least an extra $400 per
unit...geeeeeee....is that why I can by Trane units for less than a
Goodman?
Is that why that when a customer asks about the new York Infinitys the
initial price is a bit high, but the quality is there...and that sells
it..can you stand on top of a Goodman and feel safe? The new Infinity
grille
for the fan is so strong, it can support more than 300lbs....and ask me
how
I know this...
BTW...York isnt a big advertiser....nor is alot of companies this
year....I
can buy Carrier units for less than a Goodman here...wonder why?
Umm....market perhaps? Sales are slack? Could it be..GASP...that the
lifetime warranty on select units is catching up to them? How about that
new
Amana warranty.....lifetime UNIT replacement....does that mean anything to
you?
I tell you what it means...alot of mis-informed customers are going to buy
complete and utter garbage, installed by a bunch of guys like you and are
going to regret the day they let you in the house.
BTW...you are not the owner of any legitimate HVAC company. If you are,
post
total proof, and I will appologize in public...otherwise, stop making the
people in the trade look bad..
Post your licence number....you know its the law that if you are asked for
it you have to give it to them..you dont have to do it here...you can
email
it to me....
While you are at it, I want to see proof of insurance.


You ain't gonna see squat from the idiot.

"CBHVAC" same @as.it.was.com wrote in message
...

"Dave HVACowner" wrote in message
...
'I am shopping around for a central air conditioner that will be
installed in our 850 sq. ft home... any advice?
Howie'

ME: Thats like saying that youre going to the Donut Shop...any advice
?! How elaborate do u want to go on this purchase...do u want a brand
everyone will recognize and pay thru the nose, how long will you live
in your house, how much do u use a/c , etc etc.... My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave




"Hey....have you hugged your Guage-Manifold today ?!"



Dave:

In all seriousness, explain something to me...really...

Why is it that you suggest Goodman/Janitrol ****, that the customer is
gonna
hate you for IF he even takes you serious for a moment, and suggest that
we
real contractors can not get name brand, better quality equipment for
less?
I mean...Goodman is playing hell with that stupid lifetime warranty on the
compressors..you DO know that right? Someone gets to pay for each units
average 15 years of compressors...thats at least an extra $400 per
unit...geeeeeee....is that why I can by Trane units for less than a
Goodman?
Is that why that when a customer asks about the new York Infinitys the
initial price is a bit high, but the quality is there...and that sells
it..can you stand on top of a Goodman and feel safe? The new Infinity
grille
for the fan is so strong, it can support more than 300lbs....and ask me
how
I know this...
BTW...York isnt a big advertiser....nor is alot of companies this
year....I
can buy Carrier units for less than a Goodman here...wonder why?
Umm....market perhaps? Sales are slack? Could it be..GASP...that the
lifetime warranty on select units is catching up to them? How about that
new
Amana warranty.....lifetime UNIT replacement....does that mean anything to
you?
I tell you what it means...alot of mis-informed customers are going to buy
complete and utter garbage, installed by a bunch of guys like you and are
going to regret the day they let you in the house.
BTW...you are not the owner of any legitimate HVAC company. If you are,
post
total proof, and I will appologize in public...otherwise, stop making the
people in the trade look bad..
Post your licence number....you know its the law that if you are asked for
it you have to give it to them..you dont have to do it here...you can
email
it to me....
While you are at it, I want to see proof of insurance.


You ain't gonna see squat from the idiot.

"bill allemann" wrote in message
m...
Poor installation makes them vibrate, noisy, and rust like crazy. I'll be
darned.

Actually..it can indeed.
Particularly the vibration and noise issue. There is ONE little thing that
no installer seems to remember....and it can indeed cause them to vibrate
like hell..



"~KJPRO~" wrote in message
...
"American Mechanical" wrote in message
m...

"bill allemann" wrote in message
...
I very much agree on the Carrier observation. I had quite a number
of
them in my rental units (a friend is a dealer), and they've been a
big
maintenance problem, well, not any more,
most of them are gone by now. Short life span, cheap materials,
corrosion,
vibration, noisy, etc, etc .. Never again.
Bill

Most likely due to poor installation and/or poor maintenance. There
is
no
perfect brand but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if your problem
stretched
over several units that it was not a quality problem with the unit. A
quality installation can make even a cheapo Goodman last quite a while
with
only minor problems. (i.e. Fan relays, contactors, capacitors, and the
many
other low grade parts that Goodman uses.)


Ditto....

~kjpro~


- Robert



"Dave HVACowner" wrote: My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to
their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high
efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales
and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave

"bill allemann" wrote in message
m...
Poor installation makes them vibrate, noisy, and rust like crazy. I'll be
darned.

Actually..it can indeed.
Particularly the vibration and noise issue. There is ONE little thing that
no installer seems to remember....and it can indeed cause them to vibrate
like hell..



"~KJPRO~" wrote in message
...
"American Mechanical" wrote in message
m...

"bill allemann" wrote in message
...
I very much agree on the Carrier observation. I had quite a number
of
them in my rental units (a friend is a dealer), and they've been a
big
maintenance problem, well, not any more,
most of them are gone by now. Short life span, cheap materials,
corrosion,
vibration, noisy, etc, etc .. Never again.
Bill

Most likely due to poor installation and/or poor maintenance. There
is
no
perfect brand but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if your problem
stretched
over several units that it was not a quality problem with the unit. A
quality installation can make even a cheapo Goodman last quite a while
with
only minor problems. (i.e. Fan relays, contactors, capacitors, and the
many
other low grade parts that Goodman uses.)


Ditto....

~kjpro~


- Robert



"Dave HVACowner" wrote: My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to
their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high
efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales
and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave

"bill allemann" wrote in message
m...
Poor installation makes them vibrate, noisy, and rust like crazy. I'll be
darned.

Yessir, you are correct.

- Robert



"~KJPRO~" wrote in message
...
"American Mechanical" wrote in message
m...

"bill allemann" wrote in message
...
I very much agree on the Carrier observation. I had quite a number
of
them in my rental units (a friend is a dealer), and they've been a
big
maintenance problem, well, not any more,
most of them are gone by now. Short life span, cheap materials,
corrosion,
vibration, noisy, etc, etc .. Never again.
Bill

Most likely due to poor installation and/or poor maintenance. There
is
no
perfect brand but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if your problem
stretched
over several units that it was not a quality problem with the unit. A
quality installation can make even a cheapo Goodman last quite a while
with
only minor problems. (i.e. Fan relays, contactors, capacitors, and the
many
other low grade parts that Goodman uses.)


Ditto....

~kjpro~


- Robert



"Dave HVACowner" wrote: My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to
their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high
efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales
and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave

"bill allemann" wrote in message
m...
Poor installation makes them vibrate, noisy, and rust like crazy. I'll be
darned.

Yessir, you are correct.

- Robert



"~KJPRO~" wrote in message
...
"American Mechanical" wrote in message
m...

"bill allemann" wrote in message
...
I very much agree on the Carrier observation. I had quite a number
of
them in my rental units (a friend is a dealer), and they've been a
big
maintenance problem, well, not any more,
most of them are gone by now. Short life span, cheap materials,
corrosion,
vibration, noisy, etc, etc .. Never again.
Bill

Most likely due to poor installation and/or poor maintenance. There
is
no
perfect brand but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if your problem
stretched
over several units that it was not a quality problem with the unit. A
quality installation can make even a cheapo Goodman last quite a while
with
only minor problems. (i.e. Fan relays, contactors, capacitors, and the
many
other low grade parts that Goodman uses.)


Ditto....

~kjpro~


- Robert



"Dave HVACowner" wrote: My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to
their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high
efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales
and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave

"CBHVAC" same @as.it.was.com wrote in message
...

"bill allemann" wrote in message
m...
Poor installation makes them vibrate, noisy, and rust like crazy. I'll
be
darned.

Actually..it can indeed.
Particularly the vibration and noise issue. There is ONE little thing that
no installer seems to remember....and it can indeed cause them to vibrate
like hell..

It's Curly's secret isn't it! :-o

- Robert




"~KJPRO~" wrote in message
...
"American Mechanical" wrote in message
m...

"bill allemann" wrote in
message
...
I very much agree on the Carrier observation. I had quite a
number
of
them in my rental units (a friend is a dealer), and they've been a
big
maintenance problem, well, not any more,
most of them are gone by now. Short life span, cheap materials,
corrosion,
vibration, noisy, etc, etc .. Never again.
Bill

Most likely due to poor installation and/or poor maintenance. There
is
no
perfect brand but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if your problem
stretched
over several units that it was not a quality problem with the unit.
A
quality installation can make even a cheapo Goodman last quite a
while
with
only minor problems. (i.e. Fan relays, contactors, capacitors, and
the
many
other low grade parts that Goodman uses.)


Ditto....

~kjpro~


- Robert



"Dave HVACowner" wrote: My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to
their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high
efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales
and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave

"CBHVAC" same @as.it.was.com wrote in message
...

"bill allemann" wrote in message
m...
Poor installation makes them vibrate, noisy, and rust like crazy. I'll
be
darned.

Actually..it can indeed.
Particularly the vibration and noise issue. There is ONE little thing that
no installer seems to remember....and it can indeed cause them to vibrate
like hell..

It's Curly's secret isn't it! :-o

- Robert




"~KJPRO~" wrote in message
...
"American Mechanical" wrote in message
m...

"bill allemann" wrote in
message
...
I very much agree on the Carrier observation. I had quite a
number
of
them in my rental units (a friend is a dealer), and they've been a
big
maintenance problem, well, not any more,
most of them are gone by now. Short life span, cheap materials,
corrosion,
vibration, noisy, etc, etc .. Never again.
Bill

Most likely due to poor installation and/or poor maintenance. There
is
no
perfect brand but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if your problem
stretched
over several units that it was not a quality problem with the unit.
A
quality installation can make even a cheapo Goodman last quite a
while
with
only minor problems. (i.e. Fan relays, contactors, capacitors, and
the
many
other low grade parts that Goodman uses.)


Ditto....

~kjpro~


- Robert



"Dave HVACowner" wrote: My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due to
their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high
efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac sales
and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner .
Dave

"American Mechanical" wrote in message
. ..

"CBHVAC" same @as.it.was.com wrote in message
...

"bill allemann" wrote in message
m...
Poor installation makes them vibrate, noisy, and rust like crazy.
I'll
be
darned.

Actually..it can indeed.
Particularly the vibration and noise issue. There is ONE little thing
that
no installer seems to remember....and it can indeed cause them to
vibrate
like hell..

It's Curly's secret isn't it! :-o

- Robert

LOL...

Nah...is those pesky compressor mounting bolts that everyone seems to think
need to be tight as hell....wrong...
Turn them out 1.4 turn or more...be amazed at how nice and quiet and how
little vibration is transmitted..wonder if THATS why they are on rubber
feet??






"~KJPRO~" wrote in message
...
"American Mechanical" wrote in message
m...

"bill allemann" wrote in
message
...
I very much agree on the Carrier observation. I had quite a
number
of
them in my rental units (a friend is a dealer), and they've been
a
big
maintenance problem, well, not any more,
most of them are gone by now. Short life span, cheap
materials,
corrosion,
vibration, noisy, etc, etc .. Never again.
Bill

Most likely due to poor installation and/or poor maintenance.
There
is
no
perfect brand but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if your problem
stretched
over several units that it was not a quality problem with the
unit.
A
quality installation can make even a cheapo Goodman last quite a
while
with
only minor problems. (i.e. Fan relays, contactors, capacitors, and
the
many
other low grade parts that Goodman uses.)


Ditto....

~kjpro~


- Robert



"Dave HVACowner" wrote: My personal
suggestion is that, you keep away from Carrier and Trane due
to
their
inflated prices to cover national advertising . Select a high
efficiency
Goodman . Its ranked number 2 in national residential hvac
sales
and
thier warranties are long. This is my opinion as an hvac owner
..
Dave