On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 02:59:49 -0000, T wrote:

On 12/31/2016 02:29 AM, Bod wrote:
If your god created everything, then that means he created Satan.

Yes it does. Satin was an angle and Jesus did indeed create
him.

An angle? Did you mean fisherman?

Jesus gave us all free will, including angles.

Ahh, not a typo, just ignorance.

Satin when

Are you drunk?

against God and wound up running the Eternal Golf Course.

The what?!?

Satin's power comes from his ability to seduce. Evil
comes wrapped in a pretty package.

Now WHY would he create something so evil?

He didn't. That was Satin's choice.

Satin is a texture of paint.

If he didn't create satan, that implies that Satan had equal powers to
your god and had a hand in creation.

Also if your god was so powerful and clever to give everyone free will,
then why did he not create *goodwill* in everyone?

He did. We are created in his image and likeness. Jesus took
on our form in every respect. (Yes, that does put a hitch in
the Wester belief of original sin.) We are all created
good.

We are not all created good, or half of us wouldn't be in jail.

If I was a god, I would make *all* humans to be good people.

Me too. My guess is that without free will, we could not chose him.
An he finds a conscious choice to choose him. And by choosing
him, we have to follow his teaching. All eh declarations in
the world are meaningless, if yo don't make a conscious effort to follow
his teaching.

Face it, god is playing a huge computer game and really really ****ed up with the character generation.

--
Condoms aren't completely safe. A friend of mine was wearing one and got hit by a bus.

On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 00:36:00 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/03/2017 04:23 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

He give us free will. Some do not act as desired.

Then he ****ed up. So why do you worship him?

Because he makes it apparent to me that he loves me.

No he doesn't. You're just making things up. Show me where you saw love from this non-existent thing?

--
I got invited to a Muslim party the other night.
It was the fastest game of pass the parcel I've even seen!

On 1/4/2017 5:32 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 11:42:07 PM UTC-5, Muggles wrote:
On 1/3/2017 8:03 PM, T wrote:
On 12/31/2016 10:12 PM, Muggles wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:41:15 -0800, T wrote:
I really don't understand.

I don't understand why this is an issue to you.

It's an issue because saints are dead and talking to the dead is akin to
fortune telling, which is forbidden. That's what the Bible says.

No it does not. The Bible says we are in "communion" with them.

Do you or do you not believe in Heaven?

We aren't going to agree on this particular practice.




I think everybody else can agree that you and T should take this
discussion to e-mail. It's tiresome.


We both use fake emails here and haven't exchanged email addresses, either.

I don't mind discussing such things here, just as, any other OT subject
is discussed here. I simply mark entire threads as "read" if I'm not
interested.

--
Maggie

On 01/03/2017 08:28 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 1/3/2017 7:50 PM, T wrote:
On 12/31/2016 09:57 PM, Muggles wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:41:15 -0800, T wrote:
not call anyone Father, except our father in heaven.

Matt 23:9

That's the origin of this dispute. No everyone agrees with how it's
interpreted.

I, personally, won't call anyone "father" except for my dad (he was my
father on earth), and God who is my father in heaven.

For me, it would be wrong to do otherwise.


Nonsense Maggie! Do a search on the bible for the words
"father" and the words "teacher". The Disciples and writer
of Bible used those words over and over and over, including
those disciples that were personally tutored by Jesus!

Teacher and father are very different.

Not when you take things out of context:

But you, do not be called €˜Rabbi [teacher]; for One is
your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren.
Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is
your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called
teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.
-- Matthew 23:8-10 (NKJV)

What you missed when you took the above out of context was
the rest of the chapter.

But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who
humbles himself will be exalted.
-- Matthew 23:11-12 (NKJV)

This is a clear admonishment of our pomposity, not an order
not to use any particular word(s). If Jesus was ordering us
not to use the words Father and Teacher [rabbi], those he
personally tutored would have not used them over and over
and over and over.

This is why we need an authority over the bible and
that would be the physical institution that Jesus himself
founded and that showed up at the First Ecumenical
Council and compiled the Bible out of scraps of
papers floating around at the time.

A good example of taking things out of context is the Mormons
(Hellenists) who use Christ's baptism to prove the Jesus
had a biological father. This is why we needed the
Doctrine of the Trinity (that and the Arian Heresy). Came
from the same Ecumenical Council with the same authority.


Then go back and read the "entire" chapter. Jesus was
admonishing us for our "pomposity". Taking single
sentences out of context takes away the importance of
what Jesus was teaching. It also turned the teachings of
the Bible into Legalism.

And this is why we need the Church (the institution
that Jesus founded) to speak with authority over
what was placed in the Bible and what it is suppose
to mean.

The Church consists of the body of Christ - not a building,
denomination, or any one particular congregation.

When I speak of the "Church", I am speaking of the
the physical institution that Jesus himself founded.
It is not the same thing as all believers in Christ.

The church (physical institution) Jesus founded still
exists. It never vanished. It also showed up for six more
ecumenical councils.

Anyone who studies
"to show themselves approved"

By what authority? Anyone can pick up the Bible and
misinterpret it 25 way to the wind! This is
why you need the Authority of those who put it
together in the first place (the First Ecumenical
Council).

can teach and speak with authority over
what's in the Bible.

And how does picking up the Bible give you any
kind of historical context? How does it tell you
that the Trinity is not a biological bond?

Lets all burn our enemies heads by throwing burning coals
on them! (I will explain what that is all about, it
you like. It is not is the Bible either.)

By the way, when we pre-denominational-ists call our
priest "father", we know he is not our father in
heaven, anymore than when we call the wife of a priest
"mother".

Well, I'm non-denominational, and will never call a priest "father"
because I have only one father that is in heaven.

Or "teacher"? If you take one fragment out of context, why
not the fragment right next to it out of context as well?

The word "father" is a title of respect. It does not
connotate a deity any more than "saint" connotates
a deity.


Maybe, non-denominationalists and pre-deomininationalists still have
other things in common?

Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

On 05/01/2017 17:40, T wrote:
On 01/03/2017 08:28 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 1/3/2017 7:50 PM, T wrote:
On 12/31/2016 09:57 PM, Muggles wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:41:15 -0800, T wrote:
not call anyone Father, except our father in heaven.

Matt 23:9

That's the origin of this dispute. No everyone agrees with how it's
interpreted.

I, personally, won't call anyone "father" except for my dad (he was my
father on earth), and God who is my father in heaven.

For me, it would be wrong to do otherwise.


Nonsense Maggie! Do a search on the bible for the words
"father" and the words "teacher". The Disciples and writer
of Bible used those words over and over and over, including
those disciples that were personally tutored by Jesus!

Teacher and father are very different.

Not when you take things out of context:

But you, do not be called €˜Rabbi [teacher]; for One is
your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren.
Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is
your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called
teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.
-- Matthew 23:8-10 (NKJV)

What you missed when you took the above out of context was
the rest of the chapter.

But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who
humbles himself will be exalted.
-- Matthew 23:11-12 (NKJV)

This is a clear admonishment of our pomposity, not an order
not to use any particular word(s). If Jesus was ordering us
not to use the words Father and Teacher [rabbi], those he
personally tutored would have not used them over and over
and over and over.

This is why we need an authority over the bible and
that would be the physical institution that Jesus himself
founded and that showed up at the First Ecumenical
Council and compiled the Bible out of scraps of
papers floating around at the time.

A good example of taking things out of context is the Mormons
(Hellenists) who use Christ's baptism to prove the Jesus
had a biological father. This is why we needed the
Doctrine of the Trinity (that and the Arian Heresy). Came
from the same Ecumenical Council with the same authority.


Then go back and read the "entire" chapter. Jesus was
admonishing us for our "pomposity". Taking single
sentences out of context takes away the importance of
what Jesus was teaching. It also turned the teachings of
the Bible into Legalism.

And this is why we need the Church (the institution
that Jesus founded) to speak with authority over
what was placed in the Bible and what it is suppose
to mean.

The Church consists of the body of Christ - not a building,
denomination, or any one particular congregation.

When I speak of the "Church", I am speaking of the
the physical institution that Jesus himself founded.
It is not the same thing as all believers in Christ.

The church (physical institution) Jesus founded still
exists. It never vanished. It also showed up for six more
ecumenical councils.

Anyone who studies
"to show themselves approved"

By what authority? Anyone can pick up the Bible and
misinterpret it 25 way to the wind! This is
why you need the Authority of those who put it
together in the first place (the First Ecumenical
Council).

can teach and speak with authority over
what's in the Bible.

And how does picking up the Bible give you any
kind of historical context? How does it tell you
that the Trinity is not a biological bond?

Lets all burn our enemies heads by throwing burning coals
on them! (I will explain what that is all about, it
you like. It is not is the Bible either.)

By the way, when we pre-denominational-ists call our
priest "father", we know he is not our father in
heaven, anymore than when we call the wife of a priest
"mother".

Well, I'm non-denominational, and will never call a priest "father"
because I have only one father that is in heaven.

Or "teacher"? If you take one fragment out of context, why
not the fragment right next to it out of context as well?

The word "father" is a title of respect. It does not
connotate a deity any more than "saint" connotates
a deity.


Maybe, non-denominationalists and pre-deomininationalists still have
other things in common?

Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

Saviour from what?

On 1/5/2017 11:40 AM, T wrote:
On 01/03/2017 08:28 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 1/3/2017 7:50 PM, T wrote:
On 12/31/2016 09:57 PM, Muggles wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:41:15 -0800, T wrote:
not call anyone Father, except our father in heaven.

Matt 23:9

That's the origin of this dispute. No everyone agrees with how it's
interpreted.

I, personally, won't call anyone "father" except for my dad (he was my
father on earth), and God who is my father in heaven.

For me, it would be wrong to do otherwise.


Nonsense Maggie! Do a search on the bible for the words
"father" and the words "teacher". The Disciples and writer
of Bible used those words over and over and over, including
those disciples that were personally tutored by Jesus!

Teacher and father are very different.

Not when you take things out of context:

But you, do not be called €˜Rabbi [teacher]; for One is
your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren.
Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is
your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called
teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.
-- Matthew 23:8-10 (NKJV)

What you missed when you took the above out of context was
the rest of the chapter.

But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who
humbles himself will be exalted.
-- Matthew 23:11-12 (NKJV)

This is a clear admonishment of our pomposity, not an order
not to use any particular word(s). If Jesus was ordering us
not to use the words Father and Teacher [rabbi], those he
personally tutored would have not used them over and over
and over and over.

This is why we need an authority over the bible and
that would be the physical institution that Jesus himself
founded and that showed up at the First Ecumenical
Council and compiled the Bible out of scraps of
papers floating around at the time.

A good example of taking things out of context is the Mormons
(Hellenists) who use Christ's baptism to prove the Jesus
had a biological father. This is why we needed the
Doctrine of the Trinity (that and the Arian Heresy). Came
from the same Ecumenical Council with the same authority.


Then go back and read the "entire" chapter. Jesus was
admonishing us for our "pomposity". Taking single
sentences out of context takes away the importance of
what Jesus was teaching. It also turned the teachings of
the Bible into Legalism.

And this is why we need the Church (the institution
that Jesus founded) to speak with authority over
what was placed in the Bible and what it is suppose
to mean.

The Church consists of the body of Christ - not a building,
denomination, or any one particular congregation.

When I speak of the "Church", I am speaking of the
the physical institution that Jesus himself founded.
It is not the same thing as all believers in Christ.

The church (physical institution) Jesus founded still
exists. It never vanished. It also showed up for six more
ecumenical councils.

Anyone who studies
"to show themselves approved"

By what authority? Anyone can pick up the Bible and
misinterpret it 25 way to the wind! This is
why you need the Authority of those who put it
together in the first place (the First Ecumenical
Council).

can teach and speak with authority over
what's in the Bible.

And how does picking up the Bible give you any
kind of historical context? How does it tell you
that the Trinity is not a biological bond?

Lets all burn our enemies heads by throwing burning coals
on them! (I will explain what that is all about, it
you like. It is not is the Bible either.)

By the way, when we pre-denominational-ists call our
priest "father", we know he is not our father in
heaven, anymore than when we call the wife of a priest
"mother".

Well, I'm non-denominational, and will never call a priest "father"
because I have only one father that is in heaven.

Or "teacher"? If you take one fragment out of context, why
not the fragment right next to it out of context as well?

The word "father" is a title of respect. It does not
connotate a deity any more than "saint" connotates
a deity.


Maybe, non-denominationalists and pre-deomininationalists still have
other things in common?

Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.


I enjoy discussions like this, but at the same time (on this group) I
don't really feel it's the right place to go into lengthy exegesis
discussions, which is where this discussion is heading. Maybe you know
of a better group we could discuss it on, or even ... taking it to email?

--
Maggie

On 01/04/2017 07:40 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 00:36:00 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/03/2017 04:23 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

He give us free will. Some do not act as desired.

Then he ****ed up. So why do you worship him?

Because he makes it apparent to me that he loves me.

No he doesn't. You're just making things up. Show me where you saw
love from this non-existent thing?


Hi James,

Or I could just be lying my ass off. Be a little more insightful!

God love you James!

-T

On 01/05/2017 11:01 AM, Bod wrote:
Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

Saviour from what?

Hell among other things

On 01/03/2017 08:37 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 1/3/2017 7:52 PM, T wrote:
On 12/31/2016 10:04 PM, Muggles wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:41:15 -0800, T wrote:
authority of the Church) to make sure we know what
things are suppose to mean.


The Bible says we're to study for ourselves, so we know if what others
are trying to teach us is true or not. No church or denomination has the
authority to supersede what the Bible says. That includes putting a
denominational spin on how they want to interpret scripture, too.
The Church is the body of Christ, not a building or special group of
people who claim they are the originals.


The writing authority was the First Council at Nicaea. No authority,
no Bible. You should not accept any teaching unless it has "authority"
to go with it.

The authority of the Nicaea Council ended when the content of the book
was decided upon.

Actually, councils can decide on anything they want. It is
nullified if it is not accept by the member in general.

We are told that each and every one of us is to study
(2 Timothy 2:15)

Do your best to present yourself to God as one
approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed
and who correctly handles the word of truth.

I am not seeing your point.

for ourselves, and we're supposed to hold those people
accountable who teach us. All too often those in leadership abuse their
positions and manipulate the people they are charged with to teach. Too
many trusting people get damaged and hurt because they haven't studied
for themselves, and instead, trusted someone else to do the work for them.

Very true. That is why we need a trusted authority. The councils
are a good start.

If you doubt who the "originals" are, read your church history.

No offense, but I don't really care who the "originals" are, and I don't
think it matters.

No authority, no Bible. It should matter a great deal to you.

Being an "original" has never been a criteria for
following Christ. I want to know how a person lives out their beliefs
in Christ, now.

And that is what it is all about.

On 01/04/2017 07:35 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
against God and wound up running the Eternal Golf Course.

The what?!?

Your have never heard Hell called the Eternal Golf
Course? It is where fishermen go when they lead
unrighteous lives and die.

On 1/6/2017 8:10 PM, T wrote:
On 01/03/2017 08:37 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 1/3/2017 7:52 PM, T wrote:
On 12/31/2016 10:04 PM, Muggles wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:41:15 -0800, T wrote:
authority of the Church) to make sure we know what
things are suppose to mean.


The Bible says we're to study for ourselves, so we know if what others
are trying to teach us is true or not. No church or denomination has
the
authority to supersede what the Bible says. That includes putting a
denominational spin on how they want to interpret scripture, too.
The Church is the body of Christ, not a building or special group of
people who claim they are the originals.


The writing authority was the First Council at Nicaea. No authority,
no Bible. You should not accept any teaching unless it has "authority"
to go with it.

The authority of the Nicaea Council ended when the content of the book
was decided upon.

Actually, councils can decide on anything they want. It is
nullified if it is not accept by the member in general.

We are told that each and every one of us is to study
(2 Timothy 2:15)

Do your best to present yourself to God as one
approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed
and who correctly handles the word of truth.

I am not seeing your point.

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to
be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

We're supposed to study the word ourselves and be able to "rightly
dividing the word of truth" ourselves, not be dependent on someone else
to understand what it means.

for ourselves, and we're supposed to hold those people
accountable who teach us. All too often those in leadership abuse their
positions and manipulate the people they are charged with to teach. Too
many trusting people get damaged and hurt because they haven't studied
for themselves, and instead, trusted someone else to do the work for
them.


Very true. That is why we need a trusted authority. The councils
are a good start.

They are fallible.


If you doubt who the "originals" are, read your church history.


No offense, but I don't really care who the "originals" are, and I don't
think it matters.


No authority, no Bible. It should matter a great deal to you.

Authority comes from God - not councils.

Being an "original" has never been a criteria for
following Christ. I want to know how a person lives out their beliefs
in Christ, now.


And that is what it is all about.


Something, we agree on!

--
Maggie

On 01/06/2017 08:12 PM, Muggles wrote:
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to
be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

We're supposed to study the word ourselves and be able to "rightly
dividing the word of truth" ourselves, not be dependent on someone else
to understand what it means.

It does not mean "sola scriptura", especially since the "words"
(we don't know what they were, possible the Teachings of the
Apostles) spoken of here were not the Bible, which wasn't
compiled for another 200 years. It doesn't mean to go off on
your own. It means to study the writings and traditions
given to them.

Sola scriptura is not biblical. This is what the Bible itself
teaches:

And behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority
under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge
of all her treasury, and had come to Jerusalem to worship,
was returning. And sitting in his chariot, he was reading
Isaiah the prophet. Then the Spirit said to Philip, €œGo
near and overtake this chariot.€�

So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet
Isaiah, and said, €œDo you understand what you are reading?€�

And he said, €œHow can I, unless someone guides me?€� And he
asked Philip to come up and sit with him.

--Acts 27-31

The phrase I want you to especially listen to is "How can I,
unless someone guides me?€�

"How can I, unless someone guides me?€� would not have been placed
the bible by the First Ecumenical Council if no "guidance"
was required when reading the Bible.

Now I will give you that there are a lot of charlatans out there.
The Teaching of the Apostles (Didache) spend a lot of time talking
about how to tell the difference, so it is not something
unique to our time and age.

But going off on your own can and does lead to wild misinterpretations,
such as in "call no man father".

Very true. That is why we need a trusted authority. The councils
are a good start.

They are fallible.

Absolutely! That is why the body of the church has to accept what
they come up with. The body accepted the Bible, the Creed, and the
Trinity.

Just out of curiosity, why are you trusting the council on the
Bible, especially since you do not accept their authority?
They may have goofed.

No authority, no Bible. It should matter a great deal to you.

Authority comes from God - not councils.

There was *** A LOT *** of praying going on when the Council
compiled the Bible. Without the Authority that came from
God and worked through the Councils and the people, we
would have no Bible.

You must give you pastor a hard time. He has to research,
pray, fast, and work his tail to tech every Sunday. That
is his job as a "spiritual advisor". What need do you have
for him if all you have to do is read it yourself and
interpret everything yourself?

"How can I, unless someone guides me?€�

I would love it if you would take a gander over at the
Teachings of the Apoltles:

http://www.orthodox.cn/patristics/ap...didache_en.htm

Though it is not of the Authority as the Bible -- neither
is your pastor, but you should still listen to him -- it
is a wonderful connection to our past. And a wonderful
look at what the Apostles taught hundreds of years before the
Bible was compiled.

Here is a quick snippet:

There are two ways, one of life and one of death, and there
is a great difference between the two ways.

The way of life is this.

First of all, Love God who made you;
Secondly, Love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Do not do anything to another you would not want to
befall yourself.

Now of these words the doctrine is this.

Bless those who curse you, pray for your enemies, and
fast for those who persecute you;

For what thanks do you deserve, if you love them that
love you? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? But do
love those who hate you, and you will not have an enemy.

Sound familiar?

Yours in Christ,
-T

On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:48:07 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/04/2017 07:40 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 00:36:00 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/03/2017 04:23 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

He give us free will. Some do not act as desired.

Then he ****ed up. So why do you worship him?

Because he makes it apparent to me that he loves me.

No he doesn't. You're just making things up. Show me where you saw
love from this non-existent thing?


Hi James,

Or I could just be lying my ass off. Be a little more insightful!

God love you James!

I prefer real, preferably physical, love.

--
Mick and Paddy are reading head stones at a nearby cemetery.
Mick says "Crikey! There's a bloke here who was 152!"
Paddy says "What's his name?"
Mick replies "Miles, from London!"

On 01/07/2017 11:31 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:48:07 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/04/2017 07:40 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 00:36:00 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/03/2017 04:23 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

He give us free will. Some do not act as desired.

Then he ****ed up. So why do you worship him?

Because he makes it apparent to me that he loves me.

No he doesn't. You're just making things up. Show me where you saw
love from this non-existent thing?


Hi James,

Or I could just be lying my ass off. Be a little more insightful!

God love you James!

I prefer real, preferably physical, love.


When a saint prays for you, you feel like a blanket
of love is coddling you. It is very, very palpable.
And humbling. A few times when this has happened
for no apparent reason, I have later found out that
my wife was praying and had asked others to pray
for me.

It is one of (not the only) the reason why I want to be
go to heaven. I want to be with those loving people
that have prayed for me.

Playing golf the rest of eternity, no so much.

God love you James!

On 1/7/2017 1:16 PM, T wrote:
On 01/06/2017 08:12 PM, Muggles wrote:
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to
be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

We're supposed to study the word ourselves and be able to "rightly
dividing the word of truth" ourselves, not be dependent on someone else
to understand what it means.

It does not mean "sola scriptura", especially since the "words"
(we don't know what they were, possible the Teachings of the
Apostles) spoken of here were not the Bible, which wasn't
compiled for another 200 years. It doesn't mean to go off on
your own. It means to study the writings and traditions
given to them.

Sola scriptura is not biblical. This is what the Bible itself
teaches:

We will still disagree on this, but that's ok if we do.


And behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority
under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge
of all her treasury, and had come to Jerusalem to worship,
was returning. And sitting in his chariot, he was reading
Isaiah the prophet. Then the Spirit said to Philip, €œGo
near and overtake this chariot.€�

So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet
Isaiah, and said, €œDo you understand what you are reading?€�

And he said, €œHow can I, unless someone guides me?€� And he
asked Philip to come up and sit with him.

--Acts 27-31

The phrase I want you to especially listen to is "How can I,
unless someone guides me?€�

"How can I, unless someone guides me?€� would not have been placed
the bible by the First Ecumenical Council if no "guidance"
was required when reading the Bible.

One man needed guidance because he wasn't familiar with what had been
read to him. When we study the scriptures ourselves we can understand
them. Sure, it's a good idea to use multiple sources, including people
who teach, but we don't have to depend on someone to guide us when we do
our own due diligence to study. We will also know if those teachers are
relaying the information correctly, too.

Now I will give you that there are a lot of charlatans out there.
The Teaching of the Apostles (Didache) spend a lot of time talking
about how to tell the difference, so it is not something
unique to our time and age.

I've come across many people who thought they were good teachers, but
they were only teaching what they accepted via their personal
denomination. No denomination I've come across wasn't guilty of putting
their own slant on what the Bible says.

But going off on your own can and does lead to wild misinterpretations,
such as in "call no man father".

Sorry, but that's not a wild misinterpretation. It flat out says it.

Matthew 23:9
New International Version
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and
he is in heaven.

Strongs uses the same word for father/Father:
(https://www.blueletterbible.org/nasb.../t_conc_952009)
(https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...s=G3962&t=NASB)

The entire 23rd chapter of Matthew speaks to the issue because the
Scribes and Pharisees would put themselves in positions of authority
where the people would have to show them honor. Jesus couldn't stand
them because of their behavior. According to the Matthew 23:1, Jesus
himself told us to "not call anyone on Earth 'father' for you have one
Father, and he is in heaven."

Btw, the blueletterbible site is one of the better research sites I've
seen to study the Bible.

Very true. That is why we need a trusted authority. The councils
are a good start.

They are fallible.


Absolutely! That is why the body of the church has to accept what
they come up with. The body accepted the Bible, the Creed, and the
Trinity.

We don't have to accept what people teach if it doesn't line up with
what is in the Bible.

Just out of curiosity, why are you trusting the council on the
Bible, especially since you do not accept their authority?
They may have goofed.

Millions of people accept that the Bible is the word of God put together
by divine inspiration.

No authority, no Bible. It should matter a great deal to you.

Authority comes from God - not councils.


There was *** A LOT *** of praying going on when the Council
compiled the Bible. Without the Authority that came from
God and worked through the Councils and the people, we
would have no Bible.

You must give you pastor a hard time. He has to research,
pray, fast, and work his tail to tech every Sunday. That
is his job as a "spiritual advisor". What need do you have
for him if all you have to do is read it yourself and
interpret everything yourself?

"How can I, unless someone guides me?€�

I've studied the Bible for 42 years, and that includes in church bible
studies, home bible groups, and on my own. When a christian is a baby
christian, they need someone to guide them, and often times they never
grow up and stand on their own 2 feet "rightly dividing the word"
because they've studied it. They allow people to feed them baby food
and they never grow up and mature. One should grow up in the word and
mature and then be able to teach others for themselves. That's how it's
supposed to work - all of us are supposed to study, learn, and then go
into the world and preach the gospel... not just a select few who see
themselves as having some mystical authority over the rest.

[...]

--
Maggie

On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 02:13:46 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/04/2017 07:35 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
against God and wound up running the Eternal Golf Course.

The what?!?

Your have never heard Hell called the Eternal Golf
Course? It is where fishermen go when they lead
unrighteous lives and die.

No, but then I've neve gone into a church (except to nick stuff).

--
What's long and pink and hard in the morning?
The Financial Times crossword.

On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 14:03:53 -0600, Muggles
wrote:
SNIPP

Authority comes from God - not councils.


There was *** A LOT *** of praying going on when the Council
compiled the Bible. Without the Authority that came from
God and worked through the Councils and the people, we
would have no Bible.

You must give you pastor a hard time. He has to research,
pray, fast, and work his tail to tech every Sunday. That
is his job as a "spiritual advisor". What need do you have
for him if all you have to do is read it yourself and
interpret everything yourself?
"How can I, unless someone guides me?”


I've studied the Bible for 42 years, and that includes in church bible
studies, home bible groups, and on my own. When a christian is a baby
christian, they need someone to guide them, and often times they never
grow up and stand on their own 2 feet "rightly dividing the word"
because they've studied it. They allow people to feed them baby food
and they never grow up and mature. One should grow up in the word and
mature and then be able to teach others for themselves. That's how it's
supposed to work - all of us are supposed to study, learn, and then go
into the world and preach the gospel... not just a select few who see
themselves as having some mystical authority over the rest.

[...]
That is the one difference between the "Roman Catholic Church" and
the "Universal Church". The Catholics have, for centuries, been told
only the church hiarchy can understand the written scriptures and tell
thecommon man what it means. For years the comman man was not allowed
to have the scriptures in their own language, so "the church" had
control over "the people".

With Luther and the Reformation, that changed for the "heretics" and
it became not only possible, but highly recommended, for "the people"
- who WERE "the church" to study the scriptures themselves, freeing
them from the control and dictatesd of "the (catholic) church"

If when those who complain about "the church"just being there to
control people and keep people down, as several here have complained -
base their observations solely on the "Church of Rome" - AKA the
"Catholic Church" there may be some truth to it, but the "Catholic
Church" is only a very small part of "the church" as a whole. and the
two can be VERY different.

On 1/7/2017 3:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 14:03:53 -0600, Muggles
wrote:
SNIPP

Authority comes from God - not councils.


There was *** A LOT *** of praying going on when the Council
compiled the Bible. Without the Authority that came from
God and worked through the Councils and the people, we
would have no Bible.

You must give you pastor a hard time. He has to research,
pray, fast, and work his tail to tech every Sunday. That
is his job as a "spiritual advisor". What need do you have
for him if all you have to do is read it yourself and
interpret everything yourself?
"How can I, unless someone guides me?”


I've studied the Bible for 42 years, and that includes in church bible
studies, home bible groups, and on my own. When a christian is a baby
christian, they need someone to guide them, and often times they never
grow up and stand on their own 2 feet "rightly dividing the word"
because they've studied it. They allow people to feed them baby food
and they never grow up and mature. One should grow up in the word and
mature and then be able to teach others for themselves. That's how it's
supposed to work - all of us are supposed to study, learn, and then go
into the world and preach the gospel... not just a select few who see
themselves as having some mystical authority over the rest.

[...]

That is the one difference between the "Roman Catholic Church" and
the "Universal Church". The Catholics have, for centuries, been told
only the church hiarchy can understand the written scriptures and tell
the common man what it means. For years the comman man was not allowed
to have the scriptures in their own language, so "the church" had
control over "the people".

I think the Bible compares leadership that tries to control "the church"
as being equivalent to what the Scribes and Pharisees did, and Jesus
couldn't stand what they were doing.

With Luther and the Reformation, that changed for the "heretics" and
it became not only possible, but highly recommended, for "the people"
- who WERE "the church" to study the scriptures themselves, freeing
them from the control and dictatesd of "the (catholic) church"

If when those who complain about "the church"just being there to
control people and keep people down, as several here have complained -
base their observations solely on the "Church of Rome" - AKA the
"Catholic Church" there may be some truth to it, but the "Catholic
Church" is only a very small part of "the church" as a whole. and the
two can be VERY different.


I've never attended a Catholic Church, and have only seen the occasional
priest or nun in a restaurant or grocery store, and rarely at that.

--
Maggie

On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 19:39:07 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/07/2017 11:31 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:48:07 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/04/2017 07:40 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 00:36:00 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/03/2017 04:23 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

He give us free will. Some do not act as desired.

Then he ****ed up. So why do you worship him?

Because he makes it apparent to me that he loves me.

No he doesn't. You're just making things up. Show me where you saw
love from this non-existent thing?


Hi James,

Or I could just be lying my ass off. Be a little more insightful!

God love you James!

I prefer real, preferably physical, love.


When a saint prays for you, you feel like a blanket
of love is coddling you. It is very, very palpable.
And humbling. A few times when this has happened
for no apparent reason, I have later found out that
my wife was praying and had asked others to pray
for me.

It is one of (not the only) the reason why I want to be
go to heaven. I want to be with those loving people
that have prayed for me.

Playing golf the rest of eternity, no so much.

God love you James!

You're either completely ****ed in the head, or you've had far too much to drink. Please try to get a grasp on reality. Don't they lock nutters up in padded cells when they get like you?

--
Went to the pub with my girlfriend last night.
Locals were shouting "paedophile!" and other names at me, just because my girlfriend is 21 and I'm 50.
It completely spoilt our 10th anniversary.

On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 01:59:37 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/05/2017 11:01 AM, Bod wrote:
Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

Saviour from what?

Hell among other things

Since intelligent folk don't believe in hell, I say "********".

--
A young teenager comes home from school and asks her mother, "Is it true what Rita just told me? That babies come out of the same place where boys put their thingies?"
"Yes, dear," replies her mother, pleased that the subject had finally come up and she wouldn't have to explain it.
"But then when I have a baby, won't it knock my teeth out?"

On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 15:59:21 -0600, Muggles
wrote:

On 1/7/2017 3:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 14:03:53 -0600, Muggles
wrote:
SNIPP

Authority comes from God - not councils.


There was *** A LOT *** of praying going on when the Council
compiled the Bible. Without the Authority that came from
God and worked through the Councils and the people, we
would have no Bible.

You must give you pastor a hard time. He has to research,
pray, fast, and work his tail to tech every Sunday. That
is his job as a "spiritual advisor". What need do you have
for him if all you have to do is read it yourself and
interpret everything yourself?
"How can I, unless someone guides me?”


I've studied the Bible for 42 years, and that includes in church bible
studies, home bible groups, and on my own. When a christian is a baby
christian, they need someone to guide them, and often times they never
grow up and stand on their own 2 feet "rightly dividing the word"
because they've studied it. They allow people to feed them baby food
and they never grow up and mature. One should grow up in the word and
mature and then be able to teach others for themselves. That's how it's
supposed to work - all of us are supposed to study, learn, and then go
into the world and preach the gospel... not just a select few who see
themselves as having some mystical authority over the rest.

[...]

That is the one difference between the "Roman Catholic Church" and
the "Universal Church". The Catholics have, for centuries, been told
only the church hiarchy can understand the written scriptures and tell
the common man what it means. For years the comman man was not allowed
to have the scriptures in their own language, so "the church" had
control over "the people".

I think the Bible compares leadership that tries to control "the church"
as being equivalent to what the Scribes and Pharisees did, and Jesus
couldn't stand what they were doing.

With Luther and the Reformation, that changed for the "heretics" and
it became not only possible, but highly recommended, for "the people"
- who WERE "the church" to study the scriptures themselves, freeing
them from the control and dictatesd of "the (catholic) church"

If when those who complain about "the church"just being there to
control people and keep people down, as several here have complained -
base their observations solely on the "Church of Rome" - AKA the
"Catholic Church" there may be some truth to it, but the "Catholic
Church" is only a very small part of "the church" as a whole. and the
two can be VERY different.


I've never attended a Catholic Church, and have only seen the occasional
priest or nun in a restaurant or grocery store, and rarely at that.
Today you wouldn't even recognise the average priest or nun if you
ran into them when shopping.

On 01/07/2017 12:47 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 02:13:46 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/04/2017 07:35 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
against God and wound up running the Eternal Golf Course.

The what?!?

Your have never heard Hell called the Eternal Golf
Course? It is where fishermen go when they lead
unrighteous lives and die.

No, but then I've neve gone into a church (except to nick stuff).


If you ever do, I'd recommend avoiding being splashed with the
holy water. It tends to burn. The smoke trails are
embarrassing too.

:-)

On 01/07/2017 03:35 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 19:39:07 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/07/2017 11:31 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:48:07 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/04/2017 07:40 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 00:36:00 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/03/2017 04:23 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

He give us free will. Some do not act as desired.

Then he ****ed up. So why do you worship him?

Because he makes it apparent to me that he loves me.

No he doesn't. You're just making things up. Show me where you saw
love from this non-existent thing?


Hi James,

Or I could just be lying my ass off. Be a little more insightful!

God love you James!

I prefer real, preferably physical, love.


When a saint prays for you, you feel like a blanket
of love is coddling you. It is very, very palpable.
And humbling. A few times when this has happened
for no apparent reason, I have later found out that
my wife was praying and had asked others to pray
for me.

It is one of (not the only) the reason why I want to be
go to heaven. I want to be with those loving people
that have prayed for me.

Playing golf the rest of eternity, no so much.

God love you James!

You're either completely ****ed in the head, or you've had far too much
to drink. Please try to get a grasp on reality. Don't they lock
nutters up in padded cells when they get like you?


Chuckle!

God love you James!

On 01/07/2017 04:19 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 01:59:37 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/05/2017 11:01 AM, Bod wrote:
Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

Saviour from what?

Hell among other things

Since intelligent folk don't believe in hell, I say "********".


That is just baloney itself. Einstein didn't think that
the quantum theory was correct because "God is not random".
A lot of very smart people are believers.

Be careful, playing golf for eternity ...

T has brought this to us :
On 01/07/2017 04:19 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 01:59:37 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/05/2017 11:01 AM, Bod wrote:
Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

Saviour from what?

Hell among other things

Since intelligent folk don't believe in hell, I say "********".


That is just baloney itself. Einstein didn't think that
the quantum theory was correct because "God is not random".
A lot of very smart people are believers.

Be careful, playing golf for eternity ...

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of
human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still
primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No
interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

~Albert Einstein

On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 20:32:51 -0800
T wrote:

On 01/07/2017 04:19 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 01:59:37 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/05/2017 11:01 AM, Bod wrote:
Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

Saviour from what?

Hell among other things

Since intelligent folk don't believe in hell, I say "********".


That is just baloney itself. Einstein didn't think that
the quantum theory was correct because "God is not random".
A lot of very smart people are believers.

Be careful, playing golf for eternity ...

Have you ever noticed how all those that profess the is no God
seems very afraid?
Wonder why they are so afraid of something that does not exist??????

On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 9:42:17 AM UTC-5, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 20:32:51 -0800
T wrote:

On 01/07/2017 04:19 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 01:59:37 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/05/2017 11:01 AM, Bod wrote:
Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

Saviour from what?

Hell among other things

Since intelligent folk don't believe in hell, I say "********".


That is just baloney itself. Einstein didn't think that
the quantum theory was correct because "God is not random".
A lot of very smart people are believers.

Be careful, playing golf for eternity ...

Have you ever noticed how all those that profess the is no God
seems very afraid?
Wonder why they are so afraid of something that does not exist??????

Really? I'm not afraid of anything except physical threats. Fire,
disease, etc.

Cindy Hamilton

On 08/01/2017 17:50, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 9:42:17 AM UTC-5, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 20:32:51 -0800
T wrote:

On 01/07/2017 04:19 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 01:59:37 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/05/2017 11:01 AM, Bod wrote:
Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

Saviour from what?

Hell among other things

Since intelligent folk don't believe in hell, I say "********".


That is just baloney itself. Einstein didn't think that
the quantum theory was correct because "God is not random".
A lot of very smart people are believers.

Be careful, playing golf for eternity ...

Have you ever noticed how all those that profess the is no God
seems very afraid?
Wonder why they are so afraid of something that does not exist??????

Really? I'm not afraid of anything except physical threats. Fire,
disease, etc.

Cindy Hamilton

Same here.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 04:30:17 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/07/2017 03:35 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 19:39:07 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/07/2017 11:31 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:48:07 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/04/2017 07:40 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 00:36:00 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/03/2017 04:23 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

He give us free will. Some do not act as desired.

Then he ****ed up. So why do you worship him?

Because he makes it apparent to me that he loves me.

No he doesn't. You're just making things up. Show me where you saw
love from this non-existent thing?


Hi James,

Or I could just be lying my ass off. Be a little more insightful!

God love you James!

I prefer real, preferably physical, love.


When a saint prays for you, you feel like a blanket
of love is coddling you. It is very, very palpable.
And humbling. A few times when this has happened
for no apparent reason, I have later found out that
my wife was praying and had asked others to pray
for me.

It is one of (not the only) the reason why I want to be
go to heaven. I want to be with those loving people
that have prayed for me.

Playing golf the rest of eternity, no so much.

God love you James!

You're either completely ****ed in the head, or you've had far too much
to drink. Please try to get a grasp on reality. Don't they lock
nutters up in padded cells when they get like you?


Chuckle!

God love you James!

Denial noted.

--
Do you know what a Jewish dilemma is?
Free ham.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 17:50:40 -0000, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 9:42:17 AM UTC-5, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 20:32:51 -0800
T wrote:

On 01/07/2017 04:19 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 01:59:37 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/05/2017 11:01 AM, Bod wrote:
Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

Saviour from what?

Hell among other things

Since intelligent folk don't believe in hell, I say "********".


That is just baloney itself. Einstein didn't think that
the quantum theory was correct because "God is not random".
A lot of very smart people are believers.

Be careful, playing golf for eternity ...

Have you ever noticed how all those that profess the is no God
seems very afraid?
Wonder why they are so afraid of something that does not exist??????

Really? I'm not afraid of anything except physical threats. Fire,
disease, etc.

It's the believers who are afraid, that's why they need god to make them feel better.

--
Why does sour cream have an expiration date?

On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 04:32:51 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/07/2017 04:19 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 01:59:37 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/05/2017 11:01 AM, Bod wrote:
Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

Saviour from what?

Hell among other things

Since intelligent folk don't believe in hell, I say "********".


That is just baloney itself. Einstein didn't think that
the quantum theory was correct because "God is not random".
A lot of very smart people are believers.

Be careful, playing golf for eternity ...

Imagine what Einstein could have achieved if he didn't believe in that nonsense, clouding his scientific judgement.

--
Coffee (n.), the person upon whom one coughs.

On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 11:50:43 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 9:42:17 AM UTC-5, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 20:32:51 -0800
T wrote:

On 01/07/2017 04:19 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 01:59:37 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/05/2017 11:01 AM, Bod wrote:
Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

Saviour from what?

Hell among other things

Since intelligent folk don't believe in hell, I say "********".


That is just baloney itself. Einstein didn't think that
the quantum theory was correct because "God is not random".
A lot of very smart people are believers.

Be careful, playing golf for eternity ...

Have you ever noticed how all those that profess the is no God
seems very afraid?
Wonder why they are so afraid of something that does not exist??????

Really? I'm not afraid of anything except physical threats. Fire,
disease, etc.

Cindy Hamilton

You left out creepy clowns. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Clownish Monster

On Mon, 09 Jan 2017 01:58:15 -0000, Uncle Monster wrote:

On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 11:50:43 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 9:42:17 AM UTC-5, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 20:32:51 -0800
T wrote:

On 01/07/2017 04:19 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 01:59:37 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/05/2017 11:01 AM, Bod wrote:
Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

Saviour from what?

Hell among other things

Since intelligent folk don't believe in hell, I say "********".


That is just baloney itself. Einstein didn't think that
the quantum theory was correct because "God is not random".
A lot of very smart people are believers.

Be careful, playing golf for eternity ...

Have you ever noticed how all those that profess the is no God
seems very afraid?
Wonder why they are so afraid of something that does not exist??????

Really? I'm not afraid of anything except physical threats. Fire,
disease, etc.

Cindy Hamilton

You left out creepy clowns. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Clownish Monster

Clowns are only scary when they're naked.

--
Why is there no Disneyland in China?
No one's tall enough to go on the good rides.

On 08/01/2017 21:45, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 04:32:51 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/07/2017 04:19 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 01:59:37 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/05/2017 11:01 AM, Bod wrote:
Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

Saviour from what?

Hell among other things

Since intelligent folk don't believe in hell, I say "********".


That is just baloney itself. Einstein didn't think that
the quantum theory was correct because "God is not random".
A lot of very smart people are believers.

Be careful, playing golf for eternity ...

Imagine what Einstein could have achieved if he didn't believe in that
nonsense, clouding his scientific judgement.

"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but
have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called
religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the
world so far as our science can reveal it" (Albert Einstein, 1954)

On 01/08/2017 05:59 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:
T has brought this to us :
On 01/07/2017 04:19 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 01:59:37 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/05/2017 11:01 AM, Bod wrote:
Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

Saviour from what?

Hell among other things

Since intelligent folk don't believe in hell, I say "********".


That is just baloney itself. Einstein didn't think that
the quantum theory was correct because "God is not random".
A lot of very smart people are believers.

Be careful, playing golf for eternity ...

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of
human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still
primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No
interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

~Albert Einstein

Go look over he
http://spaceandmotion.com/albert-ein...n-theology.htm

A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate,
of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most
radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion
that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense,
and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)

On 01/07/2017 12:03 PM, Muggles wrote:
Matthew 23:9
New International Version

And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and
he is in heaven.

Then it says

10 Nor are you to be called instructors [teacher/rabbi], for you have
one Instructor, the Messiah

and

11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt
themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

And that is why taking things one sentence at a time
can lead to wild misinterpretations. If in doubt, ask
yourself why those personally taught by Jesus used both
words.

It is an admonition against our pomposity (versus 11 and 12).
Not a command to not use certain works (father and teacher).
And a great example of how things can be taken wildly out of
context when one only relies on himself to interpret
what he reads. And why we need an authority over the bible.
So misinterpretations don't take on a life of their own.

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of
human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still
primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No
interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

~Albert Einstein

Go look over he
http://spaceandmotion.com/albert-ein...n-theology.htm

A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate,
of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most
radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion
that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense,
and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)

To clarify:

"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but
have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called
religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the
world so far as our science can reveal it" (Albert Einstein, 1954)

On 01/07/2017 12:03 PM, Muggles wrote:
When we study the scriptures ourselves we can understand
them.

Most of the time, yes. All of the time, no. We need to consult the
authority that wrote it. If we do not accept the authority, then
the Bible is just an interesting religious document.

On 09/01/2017 05:42, Bod wrote:


"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of
human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still
primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No
interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

~Albert Einstein

Go look over he
http://spaceandmotion.com/albert-ein...n-theology.htm

A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate,
of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most
radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion
that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense,
and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)

To clarify:

"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but
have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called
religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the
world so far as our science can reveal it" (Albert Einstein, 1954)

Added to that quote, here is part of one of Einstein's last letters:

The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of
human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still
primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No
interpretation no matter how subtle can [for me] change this. These
subtilized interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature
and have almost nothing to do with the original text. For me the Jewish
religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish
superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with
whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me
than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no
better than other human groups, although they are protected from the
worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything
€˜chosen about them.

http://deadstate.org/think-einstein-...wrote-in-1954/

After serious thinking T wrote :
On 01/08/2017 05:59 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:
T has brought this to us :
On 01/07/2017 04:19 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 01:59:37 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/05/2017 11:01 AM, Bod wrote:
Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.

Saviour from what?

Hell among other things

Since intelligent folk don't believe in hell, I say "********".


That is just baloney itself. Einstein didn't think that
the quantum theory was correct because "God is not random".
A lot of very smart people are believers.

Be careful, playing golf for eternity ...

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of
human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still
primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No
interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

~Albert Einstein

Go look over he
http://spaceandmotion.com/albert-ein...n-theology.htm

A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate,
of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most
radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion
that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense,
and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)

Or he

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religi...ert_Einste in

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions,
a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a
personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it
clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is
the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our
science can reveal it."