ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 17:53:50 -0800, T wrote:
thing rankles; intercession of a saint goes against the solas. I find it bazaar that they pray for each other and get scandalized if a saint is asked for their prayers. I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have passed away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor when it comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa. -- Maggie |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 12/29/2016 09:59 PM, Muggles wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 17:53:50 -0800, T wrote: thing rankles; intercession of a saint goes against the solas. I find it bazaar that they pray for each other and get scandalized if a saint is asked for their prayers. I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have passed away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor when it comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa. Hi Maggie, Do you believe in the Trinity? The word "Trinity" is a Latin word and there is not one single word of Latin in the Bible. The Trinity came out of the same Nicaean council that compiled the Bible and the Nicaean Creed. If you believe in the Trinity, then you are not "sola scriptura" (the Bible Only). And you are trusting the authority of the Ancient Church in its teachings. Just as you are trusting their authority over what went in the Bible. Not everything Christians believe is in the Bible. This one is though. We Ancient Faith'ers have a long history of the asking others for their prayers, whether they are in Heaven or on Earth. The first time a saint prays for you, you can never be dissuaded of their existence. Those in heaven have a lot of access to us. As beloved Saint Paul says, "love never ends" (1 Corinthians 13). I personally have had several Saints pray for me. And I have a personal relationship with one who chose me. He has even spoken to me in English before. It gets really interesting when Jesus joins the conversation. And no saint is more approachable than Jesus. My personal belief is that the Lord loves it when we pray for others, not just ourselves. Also notice I said "we". The Church Triumphant in heaven and the Church Militant on Earth. "We". We are not abandoned and forgotten by the Church Triumphant. Our communion in prayer with the saints is the realization of the bond between Christians on earth and the Heavenly Church. (Heb 12:22-23) Asking a saint for their prayers is no different than me asking you for your prayers. And, of course, it is whatever you feel comfortable with. Love never ends. Yours in Christ, --Todd And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God. And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel. (Rev 8: 3-4) |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 12/29/2016 10:59 PM, Muggles wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 17:53:50 -0800, T wrote: thing rankles; intercession of a saint goes against the solas. I find it bazaar that they pray for each other and get scandalized if a saint is asked for their prayers. I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have passed away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor when it comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa. Try 2 Maccabees. You'll find it in the Apocrypha. The Protestants dumped it from the canon when they found it inconvenient sort of like Luther tried to get rid of James because James said faith without works was useless. That went against sola fides. |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 00:15:27 -0800, T wrote:
I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have passed away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor when it comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa. Hi Maggie, Hi Todd.. :) Do you believe in the Trinity? I do. The word "Trinity" is a Latin word and there is not one single word of Latin in the Bible. The Trinity came out of the same Nicaean council that compiled the Bible and the Nicaean Creed. "Trinity" just describes something that is found in the Bible: the father, son, and holy spirit. It doesn't matter if the origin of the word is Latin or a Hebrew word. It describes something actually in the Bible. If you believe in the Trinity, then you are not "sola scriptura" (the Bible Only). On the contrary... a word that describes something in the Bible doesn't negate "solar scriptura". And you are trusting the authority of the Ancient Church in its teachings. Just as you are trusting their authority over what went in the Bible. Not everything Christians believe is in the Bible. This one is though. If it's not in the Bible there's a reason it's not there. We Ancient Faith'ers have a long history of the asking others for their prayers, whether they are in Heaven or on Earth. There are no Bible scriptures that teach praying to anyone in heaven. Christ alone is our intercessor in heaven. The first time a saint prays for you, you can never be dissuaded of their existence. Those in heaven have a lot of access to us. As beloved Saint Paul says, "love never ends" (1 Corinthians 13). I'm not being critical of you.. OK? I've never understood praying to saints. It's not in the Bible. Why pray to Christ's servant when you can talk directly with the master himself? I personally have had several Saints pray for me. And I have a personal relationship with one who chose me. Doesn't that put Christ lower on the priority list? Doesn't it say that no-one is to come before Christ? I really don't understand. He has even spoken to me in English before. It gets really interesting when Jesus joins the conversation. Christ should be first in the conversation, not second. And no saint is more approachable than Jesus. Jesus isn't a saint... he's the Christ- son of the living God. To call him a saint removes his standing as king. I can't see how calling Jesus a saint glorifies him? My personal belief is that the Lord loves it when we pray for others, not just ourselves. I've no problem with people on earth praying for others here on earth. :-) Also notice I said "we". The Church Triumphant in heaven and the Church Militant on Earth. "We". We are not abandoned and forgotten by the Church Triumphant. But, there is no biblical reference that supports or encouraged prayer communication between those in heaven and earth. Our communion in prayer with the saints is the realization of the bond between Christians on earth and the Heavenly Church. (Heb 12:22-23) Asking a saint for their prayers is no different than me asking you for your prayers. And, of course, it is whatever you feel comfortable with. Saints on earth are different from those in heaven. Love never ends. :) Yours in Christ, Likewise -- Maggie |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 07:54:56 -0700, rbowman
wrote: I haven't come across scripture that says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa. Try 2 Maccabees. You'll find it in the Apocrypha. The Protestants dumped it from the canon when they found it inconvenient sort of like Luther tried to get rid of James because James said faith without works was useless. That went against sola fides. That's not part of the Bible. Never read it. -- Maggie |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 13:27:39 -0600, Muggles
wrote: Asking a saint for their prayers is no different than me asking you for your prayers. And, of course, it is whatever you feel comfortable with. Saints on earth are different from those in heaven. Love never ends. :) Yours in Christ, Likewise It is very entertaining when people debate fairy tales in public. ;-) |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:37:18 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote: Yours in Christ, Likewise It is very entertaining when people debate fairy tales in public. ;-) Debate? We aren't debating. One day you'll realize it's not fairy tales. -- Maggie |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 13:55:11 -0600, Muggles
wrote: On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:37:18 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote: Yours in Christ, Likewise It is very entertaining when people debate fairy tales in public. ;-) Debate? We aren't debating. One day you'll realize it's not fairy tales. Actually, I hope that one day you will realize they are fairy tales. But, I have not seen evidence that you have the ability to evaluate any issues using logic and with objectivity. |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 12/30/2016 12:32 PM, Muggles wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 07:54:56 -0700, rbowman wrote: I haven't come across scripture that says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa. Try 2 Maccabees. You'll find it in the Apocrypha. The Protestants dumped it from the canon when they found it inconvenient sort of like Luther tried to get rid of James because James said faith without works was useless. That went against sola fides. That's not part of the Bible. Never read it. 1 & 2 Maccabees certainly is in my bible right after Esther. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Bible http://www.catholic.org/bible/books_bible.php I can't help it if people like Luther and Calvin threw out the parts they didn't like. |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 12/30/2016 11:32 AM, Muggles wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 07:54:56 -0700, rbowman wrote: I haven't come across scripture that says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa. Try 2 Maccabees. You'll find it in the Apocrypha. The Protestants dumped it from the canon when they found it inconvenient sort of like Luther tried to get rid of James because James said faith without works was useless. That went against sola fides. That's not part of the Bible. Never read it. All the books of the Apocrypha were in the dead sea scrolls (the Zealots, I do believe). If you start throwing out books you don't like, then you call in questions all the rest of them and the authority the church had in the first place to put them there. |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 12/30/2016 11:55 AM, Muggles wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:37:18 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote: Yours in Christ, Likewise It is very entertaining when people debate fairy tales in public. ;-) Debate? We aren't debating. One day you'll realize it's not fairy tales. He has not clue. Debating. Oh Brother |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 17:23:36 -0700, rbowman
wrote: That's not part of the Bible. Never read it. 1 & 2 Maccabees certainly is in my bible right after Esther. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Bible http://www.catholic.org/bible/books_bible.php I'm not Catholic, so I don't use a Catholic version of the Bible. I can't help it if people like Luther and Calvin threw out the parts they didn't like. -- Maggie |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:05:23 -0800, T wrote:
That's not part of the Bible. Never read it. All the books of the Apocrypha were in the dead sea scrolls (the Zealots, I do believe). They evidently aren't all in the Bible. If you start throwing out books you don't like, then you call in questions all the rest of them and the authority the church had in the first place to put them there. What are you referring to when you say "the authority of the church"? -- Maggie |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:06:36 -0800, T wrote:
Debate? We aren't debating. One day you'll realize it's not fairy tales. He has not clue. Debating. Oh Brother :) -- Maggie |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 12/30/2016 11:27 AM, Muggles wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 00:15:27 -0800, T wrote: I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have passed away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor when it comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa. Hi Maggie, Hi Todd.. :) Do you believe in the Trinity? I do. The word "Trinity" is a Latin word and there is not one single word of Latin in the Bible. The Trinity came out of the same Nicaean council that compiled the Bible and the Nicaean Creed. "Trinity" just describes something that is found in the Bible: the father, son, and holy spirit. It doesn't matter if the origin of the word is Latin or a Hebrew word. It describes something actually in the Bible. If you believe in the Trinity, then you are not "sola scriptura" (the Bible Only). On the contrary... a word that describes something in the Bible doesn't negate "solar scriptura". So it is okay to believe in a word that doesn't appear in the Bible? You are confusing me. The references you are referring to about the trinity are also in the old testament. And I assure your that Jews do not believe in the trinity. The Nicaean Council was the one how cemented it in place the concept of the Trinity so there would be no misunderstandings, especially with all the heresies running about. The Bible did not exist for three centuries. We are also told by the Bible to hold to the traditions the founders (Apostles) taught us: Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word [i.e. oral tradition] or our epistle -- II Thessalonians 2:15 I praise you brethren, that you remember me in all things and hold fast to the traditions [paradoseis] just as I delivered [paredoka, a verbal form of paradosis] them to you" --First Corinthians 11:2 If "solar scriptura" was correct, then we wouldn't have folks going off on such tangents when they read the Bible. "Let's all throw burning coals on our adversaries heads and not call anyone Father, except our father in heaven. Or Teacher for that matter." Think anything got interpenetrated there? That is why we need the traditions spoken of in the Bible (i.e the authority of the Church) to make sure we know what things are suppose to mean. By "Authority of the Church", I mean the Ancient Church (A.k.a the Orthodox Church), not the Catholic Church. I mean the seven holy councils. And you are trusting the authority of the Ancient Church in its teachings. Just as you are trusting their authority over what went in the Bible. Not everything Christians believe is in the Bible. This one is though. If it's not in the Bible there's a reason it's not there. Very true. So you are relying on the Church as to what did and did not get into the Bible? The Bible did not come first. We Ancient Faith'ers have a long history of the asking others for their prayers, whether they are in Heaven or on Earth. There are no Bible scriptures that teach praying to anyone in heaven. Depends on what your mean by praying. Am I praying to you by asking you for your prayers? We "communicate" with the Saints through the power of the Holy Spirit as they do with us. We are very well aware that the saints are no god. They are loved ones, not gods. Christ alone is our intercessor in heaven. Everyone has to go thought Christ. True. Doesn't matter whether you are on heaven or earth. The first time a saint prays for you, you can never be dissuaded of their existence. Those in heaven have a lot of access to us. As beloved Saint Paul says, "love never ends" (1 Corinthians 13). I'm not being critical of you.. OK? I've never understood praying to saints. It's not in the Bible. Actually, I did give you references. You just did not like them. Also you are disregarding II Thessalonians 2:15 about traditions. Why pray to Christ's servant when you can talk directly with the master himself? Absolutely. No saint is more approachable than God. Sains pray for you to God, just as you would. Why again would you ask anyone for their prayers? Why would I ask you for your prayers? Why not just go to the man himself? The answer is that praying for someone else is a selfless act and God loves that. Jesus is the God of Love. I personally have had several Saints pray for me. And I have a personal relationship with one who chose me. Doesn't that put Christ lower on the priority list? Absolutely not! Doesn't it say that no-one is to come before Christ? Correct. If I ask you for your prayers, am I putting you before God? I really don't understand. I don't understand why this is an issue to you. Think of the saints as loved ones. They don't forget about you. When they pray for you, they pray to the same Jesus you pray to. He has even spoken to me in English before. It gets really interesting when Jesus joins the conversation. Christ should be first in the conversation, not second. When others ask you for their prayers, are they putting Christ second? Remember that Christ listens in on all conversations with the saints. He knows what you are asking them. And no saint is more approachable than Jesus. Jesus isn't a saint... Jesus is God. Creator of Heaven and Earth. Where did you get the idea I though he was a saint? he's the Christ- son of the living God. To call him a saint removes his standing as king. I can't see how calling Jesus a saint glorifies him? Who called him a saint? My personal belief is that the Lord loves it when we pray for others, not just ourselves. I've no problem with people on earth praying for others here on earth. :-) Only not with loved ones in heaver? They can't pray for you? Also notice I said "we". The Church Triumphant in heaven and the Church Militant on Earth. "We". We are not abandoned and forgotten by the Church Triumphant. But, there is no biblical reference that supports or encouraged prayer communication between those in heaven and earth. Maybe you read "Our communion in prayer with the saints" differently than I do? Our communion in prayer with the saints is the realization of the bond between Christians on earth and the Heavenly Church. (Heb 12:22-23) Our communion in prayer with the saints is the realization of the bond between Christians on earth and the Heavenly Church. (Heb 12:22-23) Asking a saint for their prayers is no different than me asking you for your prayers. And, of course, it is whatever you feel comfortable with. Saints on earth are different from those in heaven. If you mean live folks, there are no saints on earth. Saintly people, yes. We are called to be saints, yes. You are not a Saint until you pass on and get judged by Jesus. Love never ends. :) Yours in Christ, Likewise One of the reason I want to go to Heaven is because I want to be with those loving people that have prayed for me. I don't know exactly what Heaven is, but I do know God resides there and there is a lot of love there. Glory be to God! -T |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 12/30/2016 08:28 PM, Muggles wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 17:23:36 -0700, rbowman wrote: That's not part of the Bible. Never read it. 1 & 2 Maccabees certainly is in my bible right after Esther. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Bible http://www.catholic.org/bible/books_bible.php I'm not Catholic, so I don't use a Catholic version of the Bible. I can't help it if people like Luther and Calvin threw out the parts they didn't like. Our Western brothers and sisters in Christ do a pretty good job of translating the Bible. If you ask for it, you can get any of them with the entire Bible, with all the books in it (Maccabees, etc.) |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 12/30/2016 08:31 PM, Muggles wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:05:23 -0800, T wrote: That's not part of the Bible. Never read it. All the books of the Apocrypha were in the dead sea scrolls (the Zealots, I do believe). They evidently aren't all in the Bible. Yes they are. Some of our western brother and sisters in Christ tossed out books they did out like. It is a sadness. If you start throwing out books you don't like, then you call in questions all the rest of them and the authority the church had in the first place to put them there. What are you referring to when you say "the authority of the church"? I am referring to the Church that was present at the First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the Orthodox Church). Specifically the authority over the bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_...Biblical_canon Three of the Councils great accomplishments were 1) the Nicaean creed 2) the doctrine of the trinity 3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air) A lot of stuff went on at that council |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:01:07 -0800, T wrote:
What are you referring to when you say "the authority of the church"? I am referring to the Church that was present at the First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the Orthodox Church). Specifically the authority over the bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_...Biblical_canon Three of the Councils great accomplishments were 1) the Nicaean creed 2) the doctrine of the trinity 3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air) A lot of stuff went on at that council For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same things as the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a Catholic Bible. -- Maggie |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:41:15 -0800, T wrote:
Glory be to God! This post is to long for me to respond sufficiently to every point of discussion all at once. I'll try to respond later to individual comments. -- Maggie |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 12/30/2016 09:08 PM, Muggles wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:01:07 -0800, T wrote: What are you referring to when you say "the authority of the church"? I am referring to the Church that was present at the First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the Orthodox Church). Specifically the authority over the bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_...Biblical_canon Three of the Councils great accomplishments were 1) the Nicaean creed 2) the doctrine of the trinity 3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air) A lot of stuff went on at that council For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same things as the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a Catholic Bible. I am not Catholic either. They were part of our church for the first 1000 year, then they went off on their own. If you find something different, quote me the verse and the edition of the Bible so I can see what is different. It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well "compiled" it. We did not write the Old Testament. All of the writers in the new testament were member of my church. We know what is suppose to be in it. By the way, the Lord prayer "lead us not into temptation" is a misinterpretation. The Lord doesn't tempt anyone; that is Satin's job. A better interpretation is "let us not 'yield' into temptation". In other word, keep us out of trouble. Glory be to God! -T |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 31/12/2016 04:41, T wrote:
On 12/30/2016 11:27 AM, Muggles wrote: On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 00:15:27 -0800, T wrote: I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have passed away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor when it comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa. Hi Maggie, Hi Todd.. :) Do you believe in the Trinity? I do. The word "Trinity" is a Latin word and there is not one single word of Latin in the Bible. The Trinity came out of the same Nicaean council that compiled the Bible and the Nicaean Creed. "Trinity" just describes something that is found in the Bible: the father, son, and holy spirit. It doesn't matter if the origin of the word is Latin or a Hebrew word. It describes something actually in the Bible. If you believe in the Trinity, then you are not "sola scriptura" (the Bible Only). On the contrary... a word that describes something in the Bible doesn't negate "solar scriptura". So it is okay to believe in a word that doesn't appear in the Bible? You are confusing me. The references you are referring to about the trinity are also in the old testament. And I assure your that Jews do not believe in the trinity. The Nicaean Council was the one how cemented it in place the concept of the Trinity so there would be no misunderstandings, especially with all the heresies running about. The Bible did not exist for three centuries. We are also told by the Bible to hold to the traditions the founders (Apostles) taught us: Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word [i.e. oral tradition] or our epistle -- II Thessalonians 2:15 I praise you brethren, that you remember me in all things and hold fast to the traditions [paradoseis] just as I delivered [paredoka, a verbal form of paradosis] them to you" --First Corinthians 11:2 If "solar scriptura" was correct, then we wouldn't have folks going off on such tangents when they read the Bible. "Let's all throw burning coals on our adversaries heads and not call anyone Father, except our father in heaven. Or Teacher for that matter." Think anything got interpenetrated there? That is why we need the traditions spoken of in the Bible (i.e the authority of the Church) to make sure we know what things are suppose to mean. By "Authority of the Church", I mean the Ancient Church (A.k.a the Orthodox Church), not the Catholic Church. I mean the seven holy councils. And you are trusting the authority of the Ancient Church in its teachings. Just as you are trusting their authority over what went in the Bible. Not everything Christians believe is in the Bible. This one is though. If it's not in the Bible there's a reason it's not there. Very true. So you are relying on the Church as to what did and did not get into the Bible? The Bible did not come first. We Ancient Faith'ers have a long history of the asking others for their prayers, whether they are in Heaven or on Earth. There are no Bible scriptures that teach praying to anyone in heaven. Depends on what your mean by praying. Am I praying to you by asking you for your prayers? We "communicate" with the Saints through the power of the Holy Spirit as they do with us. We are very well aware that the saints are no god. They are loved ones, not gods. Christ alone is our intercessor in heaven. Everyone has to go thought Christ. True. Doesn't matter whether you are on heaven or earth. The first time a saint prays for you, you can never be dissuaded of their existence. Those in heaven have a lot of access to us. As beloved Saint Paul says, "love never ends" (1 Corinthians 13). I'm not being critical of you.. OK? I've never understood praying to saints. It's not in the Bible. Actually, I did give you references. You just did not like them. Also you are disregarding II Thessalonians 2:15 about traditions. Why pray to Christ's servant when you can talk directly with the master himself? Absolutely. No saint is more approachable than God. Sains pray for you to God, just as you would. Why again would you ask anyone for their prayers? Why would I ask you for your prayers? Why not just go to the man himself? The answer is that praying for someone else is a selfless act and God loves that. Jesus is the God of Love. I personally have had several Saints pray for me. And I have a personal relationship with one who chose me. Doesn't that put Christ lower on the priority list? Absolutely not! Doesn't it say that no-one is to come before Christ? Correct. If I ask you for your prayers, am I putting you before God? I really don't understand. I don't understand why this is an issue to you. Think of the saints as loved ones. They don't forget about you. When they pray for you, they pray to the same Jesus you pray to. He has even spoken to me in English before. It gets really interesting when Jesus joins the conversation. Christ should be first in the conversation, not second. When others ask you for their prayers, are they putting Christ second? Remember that Christ listens in on all conversations with the saints. He knows what you are asking them. And no saint is more approachable than Jesus. Jesus isn't a saint... Jesus is God. Creator of Heaven and Earth. Where did you get the idea I though he was a saint? he's the Christ- son of the living God. To call him a saint removes his standing as king. I can't see how calling Jesus a saint glorifies him? Who called him a saint? My personal belief is that the Lord loves it when we pray for others, not just ourselves. I've no problem with people on earth praying for others here on earth. :-) Only not with loved ones in heaver? They can't pray for you? Also notice I said "we". The Church Triumphant in heaven and the Church Militant on Earth. "We". We are not abandoned and forgotten by the Church Triumphant. But, there is no biblical reference that supports or encouraged prayer communication between those in heaven and earth. Maybe you read "Our communion in prayer with the saints" differently than I do? Our communion in prayer with the saints is the realization of the bond between Christians on earth and the Heavenly Church. (Heb 12:22-23) Our communion in prayer with the saints is the realization of the bond between Christians on earth and the Heavenly Church. (Heb 12:22-23) Asking a saint for their prayers is no different than me asking you for your prayers. And, of course, it is whatever you feel comfortable with. Saints on earth are different from those in heaven. If you mean live folks, there are no saints on earth. Saintly people, yes. We are called to be saints, yes. You are not a Saint until you pass on and get judged by Jesus. Love never ends. :) Yours in Christ, Likewise One of the reason I want to go to Heaven is because I want to be with those loving people that have prayed for me. I don't know exactly what Heaven is, but I do know God resides there and there is a lot of love there. Glory be to God! -T You *hope* :-) |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 31/12/2016 05:20, T wrote:
On 12/30/2016 09:08 PM, Muggles wrote: On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:01:07 -0800, T wrote: What are you referring to when you say "the authority of the church"? I am referring to the Church that was present at the First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the Orthodox Church). Specifically the authority over the bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_...Biblical_canon Three of the Councils great accomplishments were 1) the Nicaean creed 2) the doctrine of the trinity 3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air) A lot of stuff went on at that council For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same things as the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a Catholic Bible. I am not Catholic either. They were part of our church for the first 1000 year, then they went off on their own. If you find something different, quote me the verse and the edition of the Bible so I can see what is different. It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well "compiled" it. We did not write the Old Testament. All of the writers in the new testament were member of my church. We know what is suppose to be in it. By the way, the Lord prayer "lead us not into temptation" is a misinterpretation. The Lord doesn't tempt anyone; that is Satin's job. A better interpretation is "let us not 'yield' into temptation". In other word, keep us out of trouble. Glory be to God! -T If your god created everything, then that means he created Satan. Now WHY would he create something so evil? If he didn't create satan, that implies that Satan had equal powers to your god and had a hand in creation. Also if your god was so powerful and clever to give everyone free will, then why did he not create *goodwill* in everyone? If I was a god, I would make *all* humans to be good people. |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 12/30/2016 02:27 PM, Muggles wrote:
I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have passed away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor when it comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa. Hi Maggie, Hi Todd.. :) Do you believe in the Trinity? I do. The word "Trinity" is a Latin word and there is not one single word of Latin in the Bible. The Trinity came out of the same Nicaean council that compiled the Bible and the Nicaean Creed. "Trinity" just describes something that is found in the Bible: the father, son, and holy spirit. It doesn't matter if the origin of the word is Latin or a Hebrew word. It describes something actually in the Bible. But there were* (and still are**) bodies that call themselves "Christian" and read the same Bible but deny the doctrine of the Trinity: some see Father, Son and Holy Spirit as simply different names for the same single "person"; others see them as time-differentiated manifestations of God: formerly he was the Father, Jesus revealed/manifested him as the Son, and now he is the Holy Spirit. * The Nicene Creed was largely a response to the teachings of Arius, who held that "the Son" is merely a created being -- the highest created being, but nevertheless only a creation and not himself God. The "Jehovah's Witnesses" are prominent modern heirs of Arius. ** The United Pentecostal Church is a contemporary non-Trinitarian Protestant body. Perce |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 10:29:41 -0000, Bod wrote:
On 31/12/2016 05:20, T wrote: On 12/30/2016 09:08 PM, Muggles wrote: On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:01:07 -0800, T wrote: What are you referring to when you say "the authority of the church"? I am referring to the Church that was present at the First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the Orthodox Church). Specifically the authority over the bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_...Biblical_canon Three of the Councils great accomplishments were 1) the Nicaean creed 2) the doctrine of the trinity 3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air) A lot of stuff went on at that council For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same things as the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a Catholic Bible. I am not Catholic either. They were part of our church for the first 1000 year, then they went off on their own. If you find something different, quote me the verse and the edition of the Bible so I can see what is different. It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well "compiled" it. We did not write the Old Testament. All of the writers in the new testament were member of my church. We know what is suppose to be in it. By the way, the Lord prayer "lead us not into temptation" is a misinterpretation. The Lord doesn't tempt anyone; that is Satin's job. A better interpretation is "let us not 'yield' into temptation". In other word, keep us out of trouble. Glory be to God! -T If your god created everything, then that means he created Satan. Now WHY would he create something so evil? If he didn't create satan, that implies that Satan had equal powers to your god and had a hand in creation. Also if your god was so powerful and clever to give everyone free will, then why did he not create *goodwill* in everyone? If I was a god, I would make *all* humans to be good people. Satan is god's wife. Woman are evil. -- What does a married man say after sex? Don't tell my wife. |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:20:45 -0800, T wrote:
If you find something different, quote me the verse and the edition of the Bible so I can see what is different. The part about paying to saints isn't in any Bible I've read. It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well "compiled" it. We did not write the Old Testament. All of the writers in the new testament were member of my church. We know what is suppose to be in it. I always thought God's church were all believers - not any specific group or denomination. -- Maggie |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 31/12/2016 18:56, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 10:29:41 -0000, Bod wrote: On 31/12/2016 05:20, T wrote: On 12/30/2016 09:08 PM, Muggles wrote: On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:01:07 -0800, T wrote: What are you referring to when you say "the authority of the church"? I am referring to the Church that was present at the First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the Orthodox Church). Specifically the authority over the bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_...Biblical_canon Three of the Councils great accomplishments were 1) the Nicaean creed 2) the doctrine of the trinity 3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air) A lot of stuff went on at that council For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same things as the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a Catholic Bible. I am not Catholic either. They were part of our church for the first 1000 year, then they went off on their own. If you find something different, quote me the verse and the edition of the Bible so I can see what is different. It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well "compiled" it. We did not write the Old Testament. All of the writers in the new testament were member of my church. We know what is suppose to be in it. By the way, the Lord prayer "lead us not into temptation" is a misinterpretation. The Lord doesn't tempt anyone; that is Satin's job. A better interpretation is "let us not 'yield' into temptation". In other word, keep us out of trouble. Glory be to God! -T If your god created everything, then that means he created Satan. Now WHY would he create something so evil? If he didn't create satan, that implies that Satan had equal powers to your god and had a hand in creation. Also if your god was so powerful and clever to give everyone free will, then why did he not create *goodwill* in everyone? If I was a god, I would make *all* humans to be good people. Satan is god's wife. Woman are evil. Stupid comment. Can't be true, if anything my wife is an angel. |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 19:28:31 -0000, Bod wrote:
On 31/12/2016 18:56, James Wilkinson Sword wrote: On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 10:29:41 -0000, Bod wrote: On 31/12/2016 05:20, T wrote: On 12/30/2016 09:08 PM, Muggles wrote: On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:01:07 -0800, T wrote: What are you referring to when you say "the authority of the church"? I am referring to the Church that was present at the First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the Orthodox Church). Specifically the authority over the bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_...Biblical_canon Three of the Councils great accomplishments were 1) the Nicaean creed 2) the doctrine of the trinity 3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air) A lot of stuff went on at that council For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same things as the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a Catholic Bible. I am not Catholic either. They were part of our church for the first 1000 year, then they went off on their own. If you find something different, quote me the verse and the edition of the Bible so I can see what is different. It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well "compiled" it. We did not write the Old Testament. All of the writers in the new testament were member of my church. We know what is suppose to be in it. By the way, the Lord prayer "lead us not into temptation" is a misinterpretation. The Lord doesn't tempt anyone; that is Satin's job. A better interpretation is "let us not 'yield' into temptation". In other word, keep us out of trouble. Glory be to God! -T If your god created everything, then that means he created Satan. Now WHY would he create something so evil? If he didn't create satan, that implies that Satan had equal powers to your god and had a hand in creation. Also if your god was so powerful and clever to give everyone free will, then why did he not create *goodwill* in everyone? If I was a god, I would make *all* humans to be good people. Satan is god's wife. Woman are evil. Stupid comment. Can't be true, if anything my wife is an angel. She just wants you to think that. -- What is it when a man talks nasty to a woman? Sexual Harassment. What is it when a woman talks nasty to a man? £3.99 a minute. |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 31/12/2016 19:34, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 19:28:31 -0000, Bod wrote: On 31/12/2016 18:56, James Wilkinson Sword wrote: On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 10:29:41 -0000, Bod wrote: On 31/12/2016 05:20, T wrote: On 12/30/2016 09:08 PM, Muggles wrote: On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:01:07 -0800, T wrote: What are you referring to when you say "the authority of the church"? I am referring to the Church that was present at the First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the Orthodox Church). Specifically the authority over the bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_...Biblical_canon Three of the Councils great accomplishments were 1) the Nicaean creed 2) the doctrine of the trinity 3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air) A lot of stuff went on at that council For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same things as the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a Catholic Bible. I am not Catholic either. They were part of our church for the first 1000 year, then they went off on their own. If you find something different, quote me the verse and the edition of the Bible so I can see what is different. It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well "compiled" it. We did not write the Old Testament. All of the writers in the new testament were member of my church. We know what is suppose to be in it. By the way, the Lord prayer "lead us not into temptation" is a misinterpretation. The Lord doesn't tempt anyone; that is Satin's job. A better interpretation is "let us not 'yield' into temptation". In other word, keep us out of trouble. Glory be to God! -T If your god created everything, then that means he created Satan. Now WHY would he create something so evil? If he didn't create satan, that implies that Satan had equal powers to your god and had a hand in creation. Also if your god was so powerful and clever to give everyone free will, then why did he not create *goodwill* in everyone? If I was a god, I would make *all* humans to be good people. Satan is god's wife. Woman are evil. Stupid comment. Can't be true, if anything my wife is an angel. She just wants you to think that. Go and take your medicine. |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 19:36:36 -0000, Bod wrote:
On 31/12/2016 19:34, James Wilkinson Sword wrote: On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 19:28:31 -0000, Bod wrote: On 31/12/2016 18:56, James Wilkinson Sword wrote: On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 10:29:41 -0000, Bod wrote: On 31/12/2016 05:20, T wrote: On 12/30/2016 09:08 PM, Muggles wrote: On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:01:07 -0800, T wrote: What are you referring to when you say "the authority of the church"? I am referring to the Church that was present at the First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the Orthodox Church). Specifically the authority over the bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_...Biblical_canon Three of the Councils great accomplishments were 1) the Nicaean creed 2) the doctrine of the trinity 3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air) A lot of stuff went on at that council For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same things as the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a Catholic Bible. I am not Catholic either. They were part of our church for the first 1000 year, then they went off on their own. If you find something different, quote me the verse and the edition of the Bible so I can see what is different. It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well "compiled" it. We did not write the Old Testament. All of the writers in the new testament were member of my church. We know what is suppose to be in it. By the way, the Lord prayer "lead us not into temptation" is a misinterpretation. The Lord doesn't tempt anyone; that is Satin's job. A better interpretation is "let us not 'yield' into temptation". In other word, keep us out of trouble. Glory be to God! -T If your god created everything, then that means he created Satan. Now WHY would he create something so evil? If he didn't create satan, that implies that Satan had equal powers to your god and had a hand in creation. Also if your god was so powerful and clever to give everyone free will, then why did he not create *goodwill* in everyone? If I was a god, I would make *all* humans to be good people. Satan is god's wife. Woman are evil. Stupid comment. Can't be true, if anything my wife is an angel. She just wants you to think that. Go and take your medicine. Think of a woman as a spy. Everything is calculated. -- The planet Neptune has barely completed one orbit since it was discovered in 1846. Pluto hasn't completed a full orbit since its discovery, and won't until March 23, 2178. |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 12/31/2016 02:14 AM, Bod wrote:
You *hope* :-) No hoping about it. The Lord is active in my life. I do not believe is God because someone made a rational argument that won me over. It is because I have a personal relationship with him. Is still remember the times he has spoken to me. If you are interested, I can describe it to you. |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 12/31/2016 09:38 AM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 12/30/2016 02:27 PM, Muggles wrote: I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have passed away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor when it comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa. Hi Maggie, Hi Todd.. :) Do you believe in the Trinity? I do. The word "Trinity" is a Latin word and there is not one single word of Latin in the Bible. The Trinity came out of the same Nicaean council that compiled the Bible and the Nicaean Creed. "Trinity" just describes something that is found in the Bible: the father, son, and holy spirit. It doesn't matter if the origin of the word is Latin or a Hebrew word. It describes something actually in the Bible. But there were* (and still are**) bodies that call themselves "Christian" and read the same Bible but deny the doctrine of the Trinity: some see Father, Son and Holy Spirit as simply different names for the same single "person"; others see them as time-differentiated manifestations of God: formerly he was the Father, Jesus revealed/manifested him as the Son, and now he is the Holy Spirit. * The Nicene Creed was largely a response to the teachings of Arius, who held that "the Son" is merely a created being -- the highest created being, but nevertheless only a creation and not himself God. The "Jehovah's Witnesses" are prominent modern heirs of Arius. ** The United Pentecostal Church is a contemporary non-Trinitarian Protestant body. Perce I do know this. It saddens me. But, if they are following the spirit of Jesus teachings, then it is of not much matter. What is important is if God knows them (Whatsoever you do unto the least of them, you do unto me). |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 22:36:50 -0000, T wrote:
On 12/31/2016 02:14 AM, Bod wrote: You *hope* :-) No hoping about it. The Lord is active in my life. I do not believe is God because someone made a rational argument that won me over. It is because I have a personal relationship with him. Is still remember the times he has spoken to me. If you are interested, I can describe it to you. You're smoking illegal drugs, there is no other explanation for this stupidity. -- For centuries, the English have had a love affair with all types of hunting. Early one morning, a fellow was blasting away at a clump of brush on a grouse hunt. Suddenly an outraged gentleman appeared and said "See here old man, you almost shot my wife with that volley." The hunter, properly shamed replied, "So sorry old chap. Here, have a go at mine, over there." |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 12/31/2016 03:14 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 22:36:50 -0000, T wrote: On 12/31/2016 02:14 AM, Bod wrote: You *hope* :-) No hoping about it. The Lord is active in my life. I do not believe is God because someone made a rational argument that won me over. It is because I have a personal relationship with him. Is still remember the times he has spoken to me. If you are interested, I can describe it to you. You're smoking illegal drugs, there is no other explanation for this stupidity. That is exactly what I would expect you to think. |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Sun, 01 Jan 2017 00:11:32 -0000, T wrote:
On 12/31/2016 03:14 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote: On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 22:36:50 -0000, T wrote: On 12/31/2016 02:14 AM, Bod wrote: You *hope* :-) No hoping about it. The Lord is active in my life. I do not believe is God because someone made a rational argument that won me over. It is because I have a personal relationship with him. Is still remember the times he has spoken to me. If you are interested, I can describe it to you. You're smoking illegal drugs, there is no other explanation for this stupidity. That is exactly what I would expect you to think. People who believe in god are unable to think clearly. I therefore ignore your desire to expect. -- Don't take life so seriously, it's not permanent. |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 05:59:12 -0000, Muggles wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 17:53:50 -0800, T wrote: thing rankles; intercession of a saint goes against the solas. I find it bazaar that they pray for each other and get scandalized if a saint is asked for their prayers. I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have passed away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor when it comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa. Why are you reading that ****ing ****e? Are you a religious moron? Is it true that most Americans are so ****ing thick that they believe in a floaty light being instead of grasping reality? -- How do you titillate an ocelot? Oscillate its titalot. |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 08:15:27 -0000, T wrote:
On 12/29/2016 09:59 PM, Muggles wrote: On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 17:53:50 -0800, T wrote: thing rankles; intercession of a saint goes against the solas. I find it bazaar that they pray for each other and get scandalized if a saint is asked for their prayers. I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have passed away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor when it comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa. Hi Maggie, Do you believe in the Trinity? The word "Trinity" is a Latin word and there is not one single word of Latin in the Bible. The Trinity came out of the same Nicaean council that compiled the Bible and the Nicaean Creed. If you believe in the Trinity, then you are not "sola scriptura" (the Bible Only). And you are trusting the authority of the Ancient Church in its teachings. Just as you are trusting their authority over what went in the Bible. Not everything Christians believe is in the Bible. This one is though. We Ancient Faith'ers have a long history of the asking others for their prayers, whether they are in Heaven or on Earth. The first time a saint prays for you, you can never be dissuaded of their existence. Those in heaven have a lot of access to us. As beloved Saint Paul says, "love never ends" (1 Corinthians 13). I personally have had several Saints pray for me. And I have a personal relationship with one who chose me. He has even spoken to me in English before. It gets really interesting when Jesus joins the conversation. And no saint is more approachable than Jesus. My personal belief is that the Lord loves it when we pray for others, not just ourselves. Also notice I said "we". The Church Triumphant in heaven and the Church Militant on Earth. "We". We are not abandoned and forgotten by the Church Triumphant. Our communion in prayer with the saints is the realization of the bond between Christians on earth and the Heavenly Church. (Heb 12:22-23) Asking a saint for their prayers is no different than me asking you for your prayers. And, of course, it is whatever you feel comfortable with. Love never ends. Yours in Christ, --Todd And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God. And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel. (Rev 8: 3-4) Cut the religious **** you ****ing imbecile. -- If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren't people from Holland called Holes? |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:55:11 -0000, Muggles wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:37:18 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote: Yours in Christ, Likewise It is very entertaining when people debate fairy tales in public. ;-) Debate? We aren't debating. One day you'll realize it's not fairy tales. Fairy tales cover everything without proof. -- A gang-member was holding his 8-month-old baby while his wife was in kitchen fixing lunch. The baby murmured "mother". The guy gets all excited and hollered to his wife "Hey, the baby just said half a word!" |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On Sun, 01 Jan 2017 00:35:47 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote: when it comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa. Why are you reading that ****ing ****e? Are you a religious moron? I study... and I'm not religious. I'm spiritual. There's a difference. Morons can't and don't know the difference. -- Maggie |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 12/31/2016 04:29 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2017 00:11:32 -0000, T wrote: On 12/31/2016 03:14 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote: On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 22:36:50 -0000, T wrote: On 12/31/2016 02:14 AM, Bod wrote: You *hope* :-) No hoping about it. The Lord is active in my life. I do not believe is God because someone made a rational argument that won me over. It is because I have a personal relationship with him. Is still remember the times he has spoken to me. If you are interested, I can describe it to you. You're smoking illegal drugs, there is no other explanation for this stupidity. That is exactly what I would expect you to think. People who believe in god are unable to think clearly. I therefore ignore your desire to expect. No problem. God love you James. "desire to expect" is that a British term? |
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
On 12/31/2016 04:40 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Cut the religious **** you ****ing imbecile. Is someone forcing you to read it? Are you tied to a chair and someone is reading religious stuff to you? Do we need to call 911? Are they drenching you with holy water and it stings like ****e? James, just ignore what you don't want to read. -T |
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