On 01/03/2017 08:28 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 1/3/2017 7:50 PM, T wrote:
On 12/31/2016 09:57 PM, Muggles wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:41:15 -0800, T wrote:
not call anyone Father, except our father in heaven.

Matt 23:9

That's the origin of this dispute. No everyone agrees with how it's
interpreted.

I, personally, won't call anyone "father" except for my dad (he was my
father on earth), and God who is my father in heaven.

For me, it would be wrong to do otherwise.


Nonsense Maggie! Do a search on the bible for the words
"father" and the words "teacher". The Disciples and writer
of Bible used those words over and over and over, including
those disciples that were personally tutored by Jesus!

Teacher and father are very different.

Not when you take things out of context:

But you, do not be called €˜Rabbi [teacher]; for One is
your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren.
Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is
your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called
teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.
-- Matthew 23:8-10 (NKJV)

What you missed when you took the above out of context was
the rest of the chapter.

But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who
humbles himself will be exalted.
-- Matthew 23:11-12 (NKJV)

This is a clear admonishment of our pomposity, not an order
not to use any particular word(s). If Jesus was ordering us
not to use the words Father and Teacher [rabbi], those he
personally tutored would have not used them over and over
and over and over.

This is why we need an authority over the bible and
that would be the physical institution that Jesus himself
founded and that showed up at the First Ecumenical
Council and compiled the Bible out of scraps of
papers floating around at the time.

A good example of taking things out of context is the Mormons
(Hellenists) who use Christ's baptism to prove the Jesus
had a biological father. This is why we needed the
Doctrine of the Trinity (that and the Arian Heresy). Came
from the same Ecumenical Council with the same authority.


Then go back and read the "entire" chapter. Jesus was
admonishing us for our "pomposity". Taking single
sentences out of context takes away the importance of
what Jesus was teaching. It also turned the teachings of
the Bible into Legalism.

And this is why we need the Church (the institution
that Jesus founded) to speak with authority over
what was placed in the Bible and what it is suppose
to mean.

The Church consists of the body of Christ - not a building,
denomination, or any one particular congregation.

When I speak of the "Church", I am speaking of the
the physical institution that Jesus himself founded.
It is not the same thing as all believers in Christ.

The church (physical institution) Jesus founded still
exists. It never vanished. It also showed up for six more
ecumenical councils.

Anyone who studies
"to show themselves approved"

By what authority? Anyone can pick up the Bible and
misinterpret it 25 way to the wind! This is
why you need the Authority of those who put it
together in the first place (the First Ecumenical
Council).

can teach and speak with authority over
what's in the Bible.

And how does picking up the Bible give you any
kind of historical context? How does it tell you
that the Trinity is not a biological bond?

Lets all burn our enemies heads by throwing burning coals
on them! (I will explain what that is all about, it
you like. It is not is the Bible either.)

By the way, when we pre-denominational-ists call our
priest "father", we know he is not our father in
heaven, anymore than when we call the wife of a priest
"mother".

Well, I'm non-denominational, and will never call a priest "father"
because I have only one father that is in heaven.

Or "teacher"? If you take one fragment out of context, why
not the fragment right next to it out of context as well?

The word "father" is a title of respect. It does not
connotate a deity any more than "saint" connotates
a deity.


Maybe, non-denominationalists and pre-deomininationalists still have
other things in common?

Yes we do. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our savior.