On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 9:10:49 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
On 09/14/2016 06:07 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/14/2016 7:55 PM, Frank wrote:

At the gas station it takes longer to pay inside and wait for all the
lottery and sandwich customers so I pay at the pump.


I never understood pay at the pump. Sure, it is easy and fast. There
is a station I use when I use the company CC and in over a decasde I;ve
never been inside. If i was forced to go in and pay, perhaps I'd buy a
soda or coffee adding to their income. they let me come and go. OK by me.

The extra walk is good for me. My job is mostly sitting
on my ass. Plus, I get to know some of the folks at the
station and become friends.

I don't think using a credit card is worth all the
ramifications of an identity theft (usually, they
just steel money).

How do you get your cash?

On 09/14/2016 07:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 9:10:49 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
On 09/14/2016 06:07 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/14/2016 7:55 PM, Frank wrote:

At the gas station it takes longer to pay inside and wait for all the
lottery and sandwich customers so I pay at the pump.


I never understood pay at the pump. Sure, it is easy and fast. There
is a station I use when I use the company CC and in over a decasde I;ve
never been inside. If i was forced to go in and pay, perhaps I'd buy a
soda or coffee adding to their income. they let me come and go. OK by me.

The extra walk is good for me. My job is mostly sitting
on my ass. Plus, I get to know some of the folks at the
station and become friends.

I don't think using a credit card is worth all the
ramifications of an identity theft (usually, they
just steel money).

How do you get your cash?


Uhhh. From the teller at the credit union. I go once a week
to deposit business checks etc.. If you can walk up
to the instant teller at the bank, you can walk into the bank
too. What am I missing here?

Using cash also makes think about and budget for what you buy.
No surprises at the end of the month.

On 9/14/16 2:56 PM, T wrote:
My professional advice. Just use cash.

At 67, I don't ever recall paying for gas with anything but
cash.

No intention of changing that now.

I still pay cash for groceries, as well. Only used a card a
couple of times (as I don't carry much cash, either!)

On 09/14/2016 08:31 PM, John Albert wrote:
On 9/14/16 2:56 PM, T wrote:
My professional advice. Just use cash.

At 67, I don't ever recall paying for gas with anything but cash.

No intention of changing that now.

I still pay cash for groceries, as well. Only used a card a couple of
times (as I don't carry much cash, either!)

Using cash makes you think about what you buy and budget for it.
No surprises at the end of the month.

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 10:52:29 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
On 09/14/2016 07:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 9:10:49 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
On 09/14/2016 06:07 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/14/2016 7:55 PM, Frank wrote:

At the gas station it takes longer to pay inside and wait for all the
lottery and sandwich customers so I pay at the pump.


I never understood pay at the pump. Sure, it is easy and fast. There
is a station I use when I use the company CC and in over a decasde I;ve
never been inside. If i was forced to go in and pay, perhaps I'd buy a
soda or coffee adding to their income. they let me come and go. OK by me.

The extra walk is good for me. My job is mostly sitting
on my ass. Plus, I get to know some of the folks at the
station and become friends.

I don't think using a credit card is worth all the
ramifications of an identity theft (usually, they
just steel money).

How do you get your cash?


Uhhh. From the teller at the credit union. I go once a week
to deposit business checks etc..

That's what I though you'd say (the walking into a bank part)

I'm still trying to figure out how going to a bank for cash and then going into the store at
the gas station is more "convenient" than using a card at the pump.

Granted, I don't receive many checks, but when I do get one, I deposit it by taking a picture
of it and using the app my bank provides.

If you can walk up
to the instant teller at the bank, you can walk into the bank
too. What am I missing here?

I don't know what you're missing, but I'm missing the "walking" part. If I need cash
I *drive*up to the ATM.


Using cash also makes think about and budget for what you buy.
No surprises at the end of the month.

I'm not surprised because I keep track of my spending on my phone, my iPad, my computer,
the ATM, etc. My bank balances are all instantly available.

On 09/14/2016 08:45 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 10:52:29 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
On 09/14/2016 07:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 9:10:49 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
On 09/14/2016 06:07 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/14/2016 7:55 PM, Frank wrote:

At the gas station it takes longer to pay inside and wait for all the
lottery and sandwich customers so I pay at the pump.


I never understood pay at the pump. Sure, it is easy and fast. There
is a station I use when I use the company CC and in over a decasde I;ve
never been inside. If i was forced to go in and pay, perhaps I'd buy a
soda or coffee adding to their income. they let me come and go. OK by me.

The extra walk is good for me. My job is mostly sitting
on my ass. Plus, I get to know some of the folks at the
station and become friends.

I don't think using a credit card is worth all the
ramifications of an identity theft (usually, they
just steel money).

How do you get your cash?


Uhhh. From the teller at the credit union. I go once a week
to deposit business checks etc..

That's what I though you'd say (the walking into a bank part)

I'm still trying to figure out how going to a bank for cash and then going into the store at
the gas station is more "convenient" than using a card at the pump.

It is not. But there is more to it than that


Granted, I don't receive many checks, but when I do get one, I deposit it by taking a picture
of it and using the app my bank provides.

If you can walk up
to the instant teller at the bank, you can walk into the bank
too. What am I missing here?

I don't know what you're missing, but I'm missing the "walking" part. If I need cash
I *drive*up to the ATM.


Using cash also makes think about and budget for what you buy.
No surprises at the end of the month.

I'm not surprised because I keep track of my spending on my phone, my iPad, my computer,
the ATM, etc. My bank balances are all instantly available.

Outstanding checks do not show. And if you use on line
banking (I recommend against it), you are risking a
really nasty identity theft. The banks won't secure
their on line services enough, as it annoys the customer
too much.

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 1:31:16 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 09/14/2016 12:45 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 12:37:32 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
A recent article in the newspaper noted how often credit card skimmers
(devices are very quickly put in the gas pump that copy credit card info
and provide it to crooks) are being found in local gas pumps. Evidently the
pumps are only checked when they need a fresh roll of receipt paper.

I would think it would improve business for the stations - gas is gas - if
they advertised that they check the pumps for skimmers every day. I'd buy
there. No such ads though. Seeing any in your area?

that's why I prefer the convenience of cash

As most credit card companies refund the money I still like the cards.
If paying in cash you have to go inside and give them some money and
pump the gas. If too much money , then another trip back inside. That
can make for a trip over 100 feet each way or more at some stations.
Hardly convenient for me.

I also get back 3 % on the card I use at the gas station. That is
worth it. As most everything I buy is put on the card it really ammouts
up over a years time. I pay the cards off every month on the computer
by transfreing the money from my bank. Think of it, if you spend $
20,000 a year and only get back 1 % that is still $ 200 per year and
some cards are 3 to 5 % on some items.

I think I will take my chances with the cards.
While not very likely if you carry cash you could loose it or get
robbed. I found that when I exited my truck with certain paints on, my
billfold would come out and lay on the ground. I had it hapen to me
twice before I started checking on it every time I left the truck. Just
lucky that I discovered it both times and no one had picked it up.

Me too . I like the convenience of a credit card. but I have been
skimmed several times. Never lost any money but I find it impossible to
believe this is not preventable. I am 99.99% sure the employee at the
gas station is in on it.


Several years ago when I was still able to drive. I always used my bank/debit card inside the station paying a set amount for gasoline not because I feared pump mounted card skimmers but because using your card at the pump means $75 to $100 could be frozen in your bank account and not available until the payment for $20 worth of gas cleared. This little scam by the banks means that those who can least afford it get hit with overdraft charges because if they only had $50 in the bank to start with, they were screwed until they made their next deposit. The security people at my bank did contact me when someone in another country tried to use my debit card number to make a purchase. I had bought gas at a convenience store owned by Pakistanis so you can guess which country the fraudulent purchase was attempted from. _(ツ)_/¯

[8~{} Uncle Racist Monster

On 9/14/2016 10:35 PM, T wrote:
On 09/14/2016 08:31 PM, John Albert wrote:
On 9/14/16 2:56 PM, T wrote:
My professional advice. Just use cash.

At 67, I don't ever recall paying for gas with anything but cash.

No intention of changing that now.

I still pay cash for groceries, as well. Only used a card a couple of
times (as I don't carry much cash, either!)

Using cash makes you think about what you buy and budget for it.
No surprises at the end of the month.
My system, use only one credit card for everything I can. I get a
daily e-mail showing the running balance. No debit card. A couple of
clicks and I can see what's been charged to the card. Yes, I pay it off
every month. Gasoline? I get the 100% gasoline since I don't drive
much anymore and a tank in the pickup or car is apt to last 6 months and
the lawnmower likes it. Pumping gas... that was one my first jobs, for
two bucks a customer expected the windshield cleaned and maybe the oil
checked and the air in the tires. Gas was around 30 cents a gallon back
then.

On 09/14/2016 11:55 PM, Frank wrote:
At the gas station it takes longer to pay inside and wait for all the lottery and sandwich customers so I pay at the pump.

Gas station lines are the worst. Suzie Slo-pay is always in front of me, slowly digging in her purse for the exact change.

On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 12:01:30 AM UTC-4, T wrote:
On 09/14/2016 08:45 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 10:52:29 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
On 09/14/2016 07:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 9:10:49 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
On 09/14/2016 06:07 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/14/2016 7:55 PM, Frank wrote:

At the gas station it takes longer to pay inside and wait for all the
lottery and sandwich customers so I pay at the pump.


I never understood pay at the pump. Sure, it is easy and fast. There
is a station I use when I use the company CC and in over a decasde I;ve
never been inside. If i was forced to go in and pay, perhaps I'd buy a
soda or coffee adding to their income. they let me come and go. OK by me.

The extra walk is good for me. My job is mostly sitting
on my ass. Plus, I get to know some of the folks at the
station and become friends.

I don't think using a credit card is worth all the
ramifications of an identity theft (usually, they
just steel money).

How do you get your cash?


Uhhh. From the teller at the credit union. I go once a week
to deposit business checks etc..

That's what I though you'd say (the walking into a bank part)

I'm still trying to figure out how going to a bank for cash and then going into the store at
the gas station is more "convenient" than using a card at the pump.

It is not. But there is more to it than that

OK, then the conversation has shifted somewhat. I had originally responded
to "mako" who said: "that's why I prefer the convenience of cash". I thought
you were agreeing with him. If it's not about "convenience" then you and I
are on the same page now.



Granted, I don't receive many checks, but when I do get one, I deposit it by taking a picture
of it and using the app my bank provides.

If you can walk up
to the instant teller at the bank, you can walk into the bank
too. What am I missing here?

I don't know what you're missing, but I'm missing the "walking" part. If I need cash
I *drive*up to the ATM.


Using cash also makes think about and budget for what you buy.
No surprises at the end of the month.

I'm not surprised because I keep track of my spending on my phone, my iPad, my computer,
the ATM, etc. My bank balances are all instantly available.

Outstanding checks do not show.

I rarely write checks, *maybe* 4 - 6 a year, if that many. When I do,
it's for big things like taxes, so knowing whether they've been cashed
or not is pretty simple.


And if you use on line
banking (I recommend against it), you are risking a
really nasty identity theft. The banks won't secure
their on line services enough, as it annoys the customer
too much.

You are not wrong, but I'll take my chances.

"DerbyDad03" wrote

| What deductions for a debit card? I have never been charged a deduction
| when paying at the pump with a debit card.

You've been conditioned to accept an unnecessary
middleman. We have cash as a means of exchange.
Now we've developed almost universal middleman
exchanges to handle the cash exchange. A new
phase of that has started with various kinds of cellphone
payment options. It's creating a massive, unncessary
industry out of thin air.
The merchant pays a fee for your debit card use, and
we all pay for your ignorance as a result. Did you think
the banks were going to all that trouble just to be nice?
Did you think they push debit cards on you because
they're desperate to handle money exchanges on your
behalf without compensation?
Debit cards are a massive scam. They're also don't offer
the same fraud protection that credit cards do. (None
at all on commercial accounts.) The only coherent argument
for the use of debit cards is convenience. People don't like
carrying cash. I think people have heard that argument so
many times it makes sense to them, even though it really
doesn't. I stop by the ATM occasionally for cash and use
that for nearly everything. (It took 3 times to get TD Bank
to give me an ATM-only card that can't be used for debit...
I suspect other banks are probably worse.) I don't find those
trips are exhausting or time-consuming. Finding it tedious to
have to handle cash or actually relate to retail clerks may
be the ultimate case of a "first world problem".

"KenK" wrote

| I would think it would improve business for the stations - gas is gas - if
| they advertised that they check the pumps for skimmers every day. I'd buy
| there. No such ads though. Seeing any in your area?
|

I don't think it's that simple. The skimmers
can be very convincing. (After all, people using
them are not suspicious.) Station attendants
have no qualifications to assess whether the
system is somehow being hacked.

If you want to
use credit/debit that's a risk you take. It's also
an extra expense. Fortunately, the credit-lobby
laws forcing stations to offer the same price for
cash or credit seem to be getting phased out.
I've seen some stations with two prices. I'd like
to see the credit card addicts pay for their own
stupidity, rather than my having to subsidize it.

It's not just gas stations. There have been cases
of dept stores, supermarkets and the like, too. There
was one case -- I don't remember the company
offhand -- where fake technicians came into the
store and "updated" card readers at the checkouts.
There's no IT staff standing around in that scenario.
Just clerks and managers who know nothing about
the hardware.

There have been famous cases like Home Depot
and Target.

It's all surely going to get a lot worse. We're
computerizing aspects of life far more than we
need to. How long will it be before your computerized
frig is hacked and your account drained? Yet people
will say, "There's no other option! What, I'm going
to go to a store to buy food?!"

In article ,
says...



Several years ago when I was still able to drive. I always used my bank/debit card inside the station paying a set amount for gasoline not because I feared pump mounted card skimmers but because using your card at the pump means $75 to $100 could be frozen in your bank account and not available until the payment for $20 worth of gas cleared. This little scam by the banks means that those who can least afford it
get hit with overdraft charges because if they only had $50 in the bank to start with, they were screwed until they made their next deposit. The security people at my bank did contact me when someone in another country tried to use my debit card number to make a purchase. I had bought gas at a convenience store owned by Pakistanis so you can guess which country the fraudulent purchase was attempted from. _(?)_/¯

[8~{} Uncle Racist Monster


If you just use the credit card you do not have to worry about the bank
holding onto your money.

Inever did understand the use of a debit card or what good it is. It
may be that the bank does not charge the store owners a couple of
percent like they do the credit cards.

I never use a debit card, but buy most everything on a credit card.
Mainly to get about an average of 2 % back on everything I buy.

On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 9:54:56 AM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote

| What deductions for a debit card? I have never been charged a deduction
| when paying at the pump with a debit card.

You've been conditioned to accept an unnecessary
middleman. We have cash as a means of exchange.
Now we've developed almost universal middleman
exchanges to handle the cash exchange. A new
phase of that has started with various kinds of cellphone
payment options. It's creating a massive, unncessary
industry out of thin air.
The merchant pays a fee for your debit card use, and
we all pay for your ignorance as a result. Did you think
the banks were going to all that trouble just to be nice?
Did you think they push debit cards on you because
they're desperate to handle money exchanges on your
behalf without compensation?
Debit cards are a massive scam. They're also don't offer
the same fraud protection that credit cards do. (None
at all on commercial accounts.) The only coherent argument
for the use of debit cards is convenience. People don't like
carrying cash. I think people have heard that argument so
many times it makes sense to them, even though it really
doesn't. I stop by the ATM occasionally for cash and use
that for nearly everything. (It took 3 times to get TD Bank
to give me an ATM-only card that can't be used for debit...
I suspect other banks are probably worse.) I don't find those
trips are exhausting or time-consuming. Finding it tedious to
have to handle cash or actually relate to retail clerks may
be the ultimate case of a "first world problem".

You missed my point. I am not "ignorant" of the fact that debit cards have
cost associated with them, either directly or "in the background". I am
willing to pay for that, just like I am will to pay for a data plan on
a smartphone.

Do I *need* 24 x 7 internet access? Of course not, but I like the convenience
of it so I pay for it. Do I need to avoid getting cash at a bank/ATM or
waiting on line at a gas station to pay cash? Of course not, but I like the
convenience of using a debit card so I pay for it, but almost always
indirectly - and that was the point of my response related to "deductions".

You snipped out the paragraph that I responded to, specifically:

You hand over the money and done. No
signing, pin to enter, deductions if you use a debit card, checking
transactions on a statement

Note the words "deductions if you use a debit card". I took that to mean
a deduction/fee for using a debit card, like some ATM's and possibly some
merchants/banks charge directly against my account.

When I said "I have never been charged a deduction when paying at the
pump with a debit card" I meant that I never see a specific fee associated
with the transaction.

On 9/15/2016 10:11 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...



Several years ago when I was still able to drive. I always used my bank/debit card inside the station paying a set amount for gasoline not because I feared pump mounted card skimmers but because using your card at the pump means $75 to $100 could be frozen in your bank account and not available until the payment for $20 worth of gas cleared. This little scam by the banks means that those who can least afford it
get hit with overdraft charges because if they only had $50 in the bank to start with, they were screwed until they made their next deposit. The security people at my bank did contact me when someone in another country tried to use my debit card number to make a purchase. I had bought gas at a convenience store owned by Pakistanis so you can guess which country the fraudulent purchase was attempted from. _(?)_/¯

[8~{} Uncle Racist Monster


If you just use the credit card you do not have to worry about the bank
holding onto your money.

Inever did understand the use of a debit card or what good it is. It
may be that the bank does not charge the store owners a couple of
percent like they do the credit cards.

I never use a debit card, but buy most everything on a credit card.
Mainly to get about an average of 2 % back on everything I buy.



I never use one and hear they are more subject to fraud as you might not
recover it as with a credit card.

I only use one credit card, Cabela's, and get 1% back in store
purchases. Pay it off at the end of the month so it does not cost anything.

On 9/14/2016 2:00 PM, philo wrote:
On 09/14/2016 01:45 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 13:31:11 -0500, philo wrote:

Me too . I like the convenience of a credit card. but I have been
skimmed several times. Never lost any money but I find it impossible to
believe this is not preventable. I am 99.99% sure the employee at the
gas station is in on it.

I prefer plastic cards. Mine have fraud protection. I'm almost
certain not that many clerks are crooked.

Good to see you back, wondered where you went. We recently lost The
Mormon, Chris. He suffered a sudden death.



Even though I did not care much for him I certainly did not wish him ill.

Have not been on Usenet since my wife talked me into getting a smartphone.

There's an app called Groundhog that you can use on smartphones to read
and post to newsgroups, so, you can keep up even if you only have your
phone with you.

Yesterday I took more advice from my wife and hired someone to clean my
rain gutters and patch a squirrel hole. She did not want me to go up on
a tall ladder since my knees were replaced and doggone it she was right.

Decided to check back in here again since my mind was in the home repair
mode


--
Maggie

because I find walking a few feet and maybe
waiting in line a few minutes twice a month
to be more convenient compared to worrying about
all this.

m

On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 1:20:42 PM UTC-4, wrote:
because I find walking a few feet and maybe
waiting in line a few minutes twice a month
to be more convenient compared to worrying about
all this.

m

I'll wager that either you don't drive near as much as I do or that you
get much better gas mileage. ;-)

P.S. I don't worry about all this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU

On 09/15/2016 07:55 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
debit card

Use a credit card instead. "Debit cards" do not have the
consumer fraud protection that credit cards do.

The ones I have, I often over pay, so that I am spending my
own money and not borrowing it from someone else. That
is when I am forced to use a credit card, as in Amazon.com.

On 09/15/2016 06:53 AM, Mayayana wrote:
Finding it tedious to
have to handle cash or actually relate to retail clerks may
be the ultimate case of a "first world problem".

I am admiring your wording. You make a good point.

On 09/15/2016 01:43 AM, Danny Jones wrote:
On 09/14/2016 11:55 PM, Frank wrote:
At the gas station it takes longer to pay inside and wait for all the
lottery and sandwich customers so I pay at the pump.

Gas station lines are the worst. Suzie Slo-pay is always in front of
me, slowly digging in her purse for the exact change.


Try Maverik's. They move the line pretty fast and open up
several registers if needed. Plus they hire folks that
give a damn about their customers.

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:38:36 -0700, T wrote:

On 09/15/2016 07:55 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
debit card

Use a credit card instead. "Debit cards" do not have the
consumer fraud protection that credit cards do.


I learned recently that using a debit card does not increase your
credit score. My debit is a combination debit/credit so now I select
"credit" instead of debit. Both come out of my checking account. Paid
at the end of the day.

The article was explained by the key figure based in the movie "catch
me if you can", a con artist. An AARP article/letter my bride gets
in the mail. He wrote about ID theft and how to protect yourself.

On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 2:38:40 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
On 09/15/2016 07:55 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
debit card

Use a credit card instead. "Debit cards" do not have the
consumer fraud protection that credit cards do.

The ones I have, I often over pay, so that I am spending my
own money and not borrowing it from someone else. That
is when I am forced to use a credit card, as in Amazon.com.

You know, this really has nothing to do with debit cards vs. credit
cards. (Yes, I know all the differences and I use one vs. the other
depending on the situation.)

This whole back and forth started when mako said "that's why I prefer
the convenience of cash". The convenience of a credit card or debit card
vs. *cash*. That's the comparison we're making here.

If we limit the discussion to that, I'd have a hard time being convinced
that cash is more convenient in any situation where both a card and a cash
option exists.

Just as an aside, you can trust me when I say that I know quite a lot
about fraud. My daughter has been a victim of identity theft. Cell
phone accounts have been opened in her name and cable TV accounts have
been been opened in her name. Trust me, you learn an awful lot while
trying to fix those types of issues.

In one case we never got a bill and only found out about the theft when her
credit report showed that her "Comcast Detroit" account had been sent
to a collection agency. She lives no where near Michigan. It was up to
her to prove that she did not live at the address of the account at the
time of the theft. You'd be surprised how hard it is to find out when and
where the theft occurred when you never got a bill, never got a letter
from a collection agency, never got anything expect an email from Credit
Karma about a change in your credit report - "One account has been sent
to a collection agency." When you call Comcast they want an account number
or phone number or address for the account - none of which you have - before
they will give you any information. The irony here is palatable. They won't
share any information in order to protect their customers against fraud
when it was technically one of their own customers that committed the fraud.

She ended up finding out the name of the collection agency and talking
them into giving her *something* that she could use to get Comcast to
release the information she needed to prove her own innocence. How do you
provide proof that you didn't live at a certain address at a certain time
if the company that wants the proof won't tell you what you need to know
in order to fulfill their request? It was maddening.

T posted for all of us...


Hi Ken,

I do PCI (Payment Card Industry), a.k.a. credit card security
consulting. It is worse than you think. This is what they
are suppose to do

1) the pump is "suppose" to have an alarm that goes off
in the office if the pump's door is opened

2) the employees are suppose to visually check the pump
inside and out of the door for tampering at least once
a day.

It is anyone's guess if they do or don't. (Ha ha ha ha, what
a stupid question I just asked.)


WE had a case of skimming here and what caught them is what T quoted.

--
Tekkie

Extremely snipped

I use credit cards for everything. I have been hacked twice-both under
Discover card-years ago.

I can look up all transactions daily if I wish. I don't have to worry about
having much cash on me. In fact my wife was pick pocketed and they only
stole the cash and left the cards in the wallet on the ground. I like the
buyers security as in theft reimbursement and charge back in cast of
defective items that a seller refuses to abide by my terms.

Gotta go, was going to post more.


--
Tekkie

On 9/15/2016 2:38 PM, T wrote:
On 09/15/2016 07:55 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
debit card

Use a credit card instead. "Debit cards" do not have the
consumer fraud protection that credit cards do.


My debit card is a Master Card issue and they are very explicit that it
has the same protection as their credit cards. By law they do not have
to but if they want it used they have to meet the competition.

In article , "frank says...


My wife is like that and has a bunch of cards. She won't bank on line
(she does all the banking) and won't use her cards at the gas station.
To me, it is a lot of extra work. She also has reward cards from
several places and tells me to make sure she gets the credit when I buy
there. I don't like carrying all this crap around and fortunately can
just give my phone number to get credit.

Might mention that a few weeks ago she found a restaurant gift card for
$25 that someone probably lost out of their overloaded wallet or purse.
Reminds me of a Seinfeld episode where George could not close his wallet
it was so full.

I remember that episode and often feel like that. I usually leave the
store cards at home unless I plan on shopping there. Such as Lowes. I
may go there once a month so leave that card in a pile with some other
ones. Just have to remember which cards to take with me. If I do
forget a certain card I just use one of the normal credit cards and
still get my 1 % instead of 3 to 5 %.

One of the food stores has a card that you get some money off some of
the items if they scan the card. Often the register operators will have
a card handy that they will scan if you do not have one. Could be a
friends or theirs or evne their card so they get credit for the
purchase. I don't know or care if I get the money off . Lots of places
will take the phone number around here too.


While I don't carry any balances and never have on the credit cards, I
read many years ago that Sears (when they were big) made alot more
profit off the credit cards than they did on the actual sales. I just
don'tunderstnd why so many carry large ballances on the cards when the
interest rate is 18 % to 25 %.
They must be like a fellow at work, never count on what something costs
or how long to pay it off, just looking for a low monthly payment.

On 09/15/2016 03:29 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

She ended up finding out the name of the collection agency and talking
them into giving her *something* that she could use to get Comcast to
release the information she needed to prove her own innocence. How do you
provide proof that you didn't live at a certain address at a certain time
if the company that wants the proof won't tell you what you need to know
in order to fulfill their request? It was maddening.


The credit union I use has a dedicated fraud team that takes care of this crap for $600 typically.

On 09/14/2016 02:32 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/14/2016 3:00 PM, philo wrote:
ered a sudden death.



Even though I did not care much for him I certainly did not wish him ill.

Have not been on Usenet since my wife talked me into getting a
smartphone.


Last time you posted you were going to give free beer at a book signing.
How'd that go?




I had a nice open house here and feed the crowd and bought so much beer
there was some left over.

For Milwaukee that was a surprise.

Though I did not get rich from all the sales I made just a little bit
more than it cost me to publish. That's all I could hope for.

One of the local book store now carries it so a few sales are trickling in.


It sure got the interest of my friends and it prompted one to go ahead
an publish her own...and other friend is working on one also.


Thanks for asking

On 09/15/2016 11:59 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 9/14/2016 2:00 PM, philo wrote:
On 09/14/2016 01:45 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 13:31:11 -0500, philo wrote:

Me too . I like the convenience of a credit card. but I have been
skimmed several times. Never lost any money but I find it impossible to
believe this is not preventable. I am 99.99% sure the employee at the
gas station is in on it.

I prefer plastic cards. Mine have fraud protection. I'm almost
certain not that many clerks are crooked.

Good to see you back, wondered where you went. We recently lost The
Mormon, Chris. He suffered a sudden death.



Even though I did not care much for him I certainly did not wish him ill.

Have not been on Usenet since my wife talked me into getting a smartphone.

There's an app called Groundhog that you can use on smartphones to read
and post to newsgroups, so, you can keep up even if you only have your
phone with you.

Though I did not know about that app I figured there was a way but I
already use my new phone too much


Yesterday I took more advice from my wife and hired someone to clean my
rain gutters and patch a squirrel hole. She did not want me to go up on
a tall ladder since my knees were replaced and doggone it she was right.

Decided to check back in here again since my mind was in the home repair
mode

On 9/15/2016 6:18 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , "frank says...


My wife is like that and has a bunch of cards. She won't bank on line
(she does all the banking) and won't use her cards at the gas station.
To me, it is a lot of extra work. She also has reward cards from
several places and tells me to make sure she gets the credit when I buy
there. I don't like carrying all this crap around and fortunately can
just give my phone number to get credit.

Might mention that a few weeks ago she found a restaurant gift card for
$25 that someone probably lost out of their overloaded wallet or purse.
Reminds me of a Seinfeld episode where George could not close his wallet
it was so full.

I remember that episode and often feel like that. I usually leave the
store cards at home unless I plan on shopping there. Such as Lowes. I
may go there once a month so leave that card in a pile with some other
ones. Just have to remember which cards to take with me. If I do
forget a certain card I just use one of the normal credit cards and
still get my 1 % instead of 3 to 5 %.

One of the food stores has a card that you get some money off some of
the items if they scan the card. Often the register operators will have
a card handy that they will scan if you do not have one. Could be a
friends or theirs or evne their card so they get credit for the
purchase. I don't know or care if I get the money off . Lots of places
will take the phone number around here too.


While I don't carry any balances and never have on the credit cards, I
read many years ago that Sears (when they were big) made alot more
profit off the credit cards than they did on the actual sales. I just
don'tunderstnd why so many carry large ballances on the cards when the
interest rate is 18 % to 25 %.
They must be like a fellow at work, never count on what something costs
or how long to pay it off, just looking for a low monthly payment.


Might mention that a Sears clerk stole my wife's id. My wife had gone
there and forgotten her Sears credit card and clerk asked her SSN and
she got the purchase. Next day Sears called her and asked if she were
an African American and had just purchased a color TV and a $500 gift
certificate on her Sears card. Wife was upset and even called police.
The clerk had quit her job that day. We tore up Sears card.

Lot of people, maybe most, live on the float. One son had worked at a
credit card bank and another for a brief period at a finance company and
both said we would be surprised if they gave the names of individuals
that we knew. Our 3 sons are like us and pay off all cards at the end
of the month.

On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 6:46:01 PM UTC-4, Neil wrote:
On 09/15/2016 03:29 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

She ended up finding out the name of the collection agency and talking
them into giving her *something* that she could use to get Comcast to
release the information she needed to prove her own innocence. How do you
provide proof that you didn't live at a certain address at a certain time
if the company that wants the proof won't tell you what you need to know
in order to fulfill their request? It was maddening.


The credit union I use has a dedicated fraud team that takes care of this crap for $600 typically.

Even if your credit union had absolutely no connection to the incident?

Do you mean that they offer this service, a la carte, to their members?

You have an identify theft issue - unrelated to any business you do
with them - and you pay them $600 to fix it?

On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 9:04:43 AM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
"KenK" wrote

| I would think it would improve business for the stations - gas is gas - if
| they advertised that they check the pumps for skimmers every day. I'd buy
| there. No such ads though. Seeing any in your area?
|
I don't think it's that simple. The skimmers
can be very convincing. (After all, people using
them are not suspicious.) Station attendants
have no qualifications to assess whether the
system is somehow being hacked.

If you want to
use credit/debit that's a risk you take. It's also
an extra expense. Fortunately, the credit-lobby
laws forcing stations to offer the same price for
cash or credit seem to be getting phased out.
I've seen some stations with two prices. I'd like
to see the credit card addicts pay for their own
stupidity, rather than my having to subsidize it.

It's not just gas stations. There have been cases
of dept stores, supermarkets and the like, too. There
was one case -- I don't remember the company
offhand -- where fake technicians came into the
store and "updated" card readers at the checkouts.
There's no IT staff standing around in that scenario.
Just clerks and managers who know nothing about
the hardware.

There have been famous cases like Home Depot
and Target.

It's all surely going to get a lot worse. We're
computerizing aspects of life far more than we
need to. How long will it be before your computerized
frig is hacked and your account drained? Yet people
will say, "There's no other option! What, I'm going
to go to a store to buy food?!"

Several years ago, me and the guys had some calls to go to I think it was Target stores to change out the card readers but the store managers were notified by the corporate office people they spoke to everyday. There were even custom made fasteners with a custom 1/4" drive security bit made just for hardware in their stores. The manager kept the driver bit in the store safe.

Government is pushing a cashless society for one simple reason. Government will be able to tell you,"Do as you're told or we'll turn off your money." If a government can control your money, it controls you. Look for the use of cash and barter to be made serious crimes. This nonsense about government provided health care meaning everyone will be taken care of is the same kind of MBD, Male Bovine Droppings. "Do as you're told or we turn off your healthcare." The Commiecrat elite will never get their medical care in the same facility as the peasants. I'm no conspiracy nut but I've seen the pattern forming and the manipulation of the citizenry going on for decades. It's media manipulation and it's aimed at different groups over long periods of time to change public opinion and behavior of society. Count the number of ads for credit cards you see every day. Pay attention to the actors in the ads to see what the makeup of the couples and families being portrayed appear to be. _à²*_à²*_/¯

[8~{} Uncle Manipulative Monster

On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 6:24:01 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
On 9/15/2016 6:18 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , "frank says...

My wife is like that and has a bunch of cards. She won't bank on line
(she does all the banking) and won't use her cards at the gas station.
To me, it is a lot of extra work. She also has reward cards from
several places and tells me to make sure she gets the credit when I buy
there. I don't like carrying all this crap around and fortunately can
just give my phone number to get credit.

Might mention that a few weeks ago she found a restaurant gift card for
$25 that someone probably lost out of their overloaded wallet or purse..
Reminds me of a Seinfeld episode where George could not close his wallet
it was so full.

I remember that episode and often feel like that. I usually leave the
store cards at home unless I plan on shopping there. Such as Lowes. I
may go there once a month so leave that card in a pile with some other
ones. Just have to remember which cards to take with me. If I do
forget a certain card I just use one of the normal credit cards and
still get my 1 % instead of 3 to 5 %.

One of the food stores has a card that you get some money off some of
the items if they scan the card. Often the register operators will have
a card handy that they will scan if you do not have one. Could be a
friends or theirs or evne their card so they get credit for the
purchase. I don't know or care if I get the money off . Lots of places
will take the phone number around here too.

While I don't carry any balances and never have on the credit cards, I
read many years ago that Sears (when they were big) made alot more
profit off the credit cards than they did on the actual sales. I just
don'tunderstnd why so many carry large ballances on the cards when the
interest rate is 18 % to 25 %.
They must be like a fellow at work, never count on what something costs
or how long to pay it off, just looking for a low monthly payment.

Might mention that a Sears clerk stole my wife's id. My wife had gone
there and forgotten her Sears credit card and clerk asked her SSN and
she got the purchase. Next day Sears called her and asked if she were
an African American and had just purchased a color TV and a $500 gift
certificate on her Sears card. Wife was upset and even called police.
The clerk had quit her job that day. We tore up Sears card.

Lot of people, maybe most, live on the float. One son had worked at a
credit card bank and another for a brief period at a finance company and
both said we would be surprised if they gave the names of individuals
that we knew. Our 3 sons are like us and pay off all cards at the end
of the month.


I pay all my bills online because I can't go to the various places but I have a friend who takes my card to those places a personal appearance is required. I watch my small bank balance and know where every penny goes. Online banking is all I'm able to do. The last time I visited a bank was last year when I had to get something notarized and my friend drove me to the bank where a bank employee brought the papers out to the vehicle for me to sign. I get great service from the bank branch I use and the security service of the bank has blocked attempted purchases from foreign countries. The security personnel figured I couldn't teleport to Pakistan and back. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Bank Monster

On 09/16/2016 12:48 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 6:46:01 PM UTC-4, Neil wrote:
On 09/15/2016 03:29 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
She ended up finding out the name of the collection agency and talking
them into giving her *something* that she could use to get Comcast to
release the information she needed to prove her own innocence. How do you
provide proof that you didn't live at a certain address at a certain time
if the company that wants the proof won't tell you what you need to know
in order to fulfill their request? It was maddening.

The credit union I use has a dedicated fraud team that takes care of this crap for $600 typically.
Even if your credit union had absolutely no connection to the incident?

Do you mean that they offer this service, a la carte, to their members?

You have an identify theft issue - unrelated to any business you do
with them - and you pay them $600 to fix it?


My bank offers that as well. If/when you are the victim of identity theft,
you take them all supporting documentation of the identity theft, pay
them a fee and the bank cleans it up for you.

On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 11:19:22 AM UTC-4, Danny Jones wrote:
On 09/16/2016 12:48 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 6:46:01 PM UTC-4, Neil wrote:
On 09/15/2016 03:29 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
She ended up finding out the name of the collection agency and talking
them into giving her *something* that she could use to get Comcast to
release the information she needed to prove her own innocence. How do you
provide proof that you didn't live at a certain address at a certain time
if the company that wants the proof won't tell you what you need to know
in order to fulfill their request? It was maddening.

The credit union I use has a dedicated fraud team that takes care of this crap for $600 typically.
Even if your credit union had absolutely no connection to the incident?

Do you mean that they offer this service, a la carte, to their members?

You have an identify theft issue - unrelated to any business you do
with them - and you pay them $600 to fix it?


My bank offers that as well. If/when you are the victim of identity theft,
you take them all supporting documentation of the identity theft, pay
them a fee and the bank cleans it up for you.

I'll ask the same question to you that I asked of Neil:

Will they do this even if they are not in any way connected to the "theft"?

Let's call the bank "My_S&L"

In other words, someone opens a cell phone account in your name. This
has nothing to do with My_S&L. No My_S&L bank accounts have been accessed,
no My_S&L credit credit card was used to pay the bill, etc. No connection
to My_S&L at all.

Will they still clean it up for you?

(I'll save my other questions until I see the answer to that one.)

This whole back and forth started when mako said "that's why I prefer
the convenience of cash". The convenience of a credit card or debit card
vs. *cash*. That's the comparison we're making here.

If we limit the discussion to that, I'd have a hard time being convinced
that cash is more convenient in any situation where both a card and a cash
option exists.

Just as an aside, you can trust me when I say that I know quite a lot
about fraud. My daughter has been a victim of identity theft. Cell
phone accounts have been opened in her name and cable TV accounts have
been been opened in her name. Trust me, you learn an awful lot while
trying to fix those types of issues.

In one case we never got a bill and only found out about the theft when her
credit report showed that her "Comcast Detroit" account had been sent
to a collection agency. She lives no where near Michigan. It was up to
her to prove that she did not live at the address of the account at the
time of the theft. You'd be surprised how hard it is to find out when and
where the theft occurred when you never got a bill, never got a letter
from a collection agency, never got anything expect an email from Credit
Karma about a change in your credit report - "One account has been sent
to a collection agency." When you call Comcast they want an account number
or phone number or address for the account - none of which you have - before
they will give you any information. The irony here is palatable. They won't
share any information in order to protect their customers against fraud
when it was technically one of their own customers that committed the fraud.

She ended up finding out the name of the collection agency and talking
them into giving her *something* that she could use to get Comcast to
release the information she needed to prove her own innocence. How do you
provide proof that you didn't live at a certain address at a certain time
if the company that wants the proof won't tell you what you need to know
in order to fulfill their request? It was maddening.


so all this is more convenient to you compared to carrying a few pieces of green paper?

I try to use cash for everyday purchases.

I guess that we we have choices....

take care...

m

On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 1:56:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:

This whole back and forth started when mako said "that's why I prefer
the convenience of cash". The convenience of a credit card or debit card
vs. *cash*. That's the comparison we're making here.

If we limit the discussion to that, I'd have a hard time being convinced
that cash is more convenient in any situation where both a card and a cash
option exists.

Just as an aside, you can trust me when I say that I know quite a lot
about fraud. My daughter has been a victim of identity theft. Cell
phone accounts have been opened in her name and cable TV accounts have
been been opened in her name. Trust me, you learn an awful lot while
trying to fix those types of issues.

In one case we never got a bill and only found out about the theft when her
credit report showed that her "Comcast Detroit" account had been sent
to a collection agency. She lives no where near Michigan. It was up to
her to prove that she did not live at the address of the account at the
time of the theft. You'd be surprised how hard it is to find out when and
where the theft occurred when you never got a bill, never got a letter
from a collection agency, never got anything expect an email from Credit
Karma about a change in your credit report - "One account has been sent
to a collection agency." When you call Comcast they want an account number
or phone number or address for the account - none of which you have - before
they will give you any information. The irony here is palatable. They won't
share any information in order to protect their customers against fraud
when it was technically one of their own customers that committed the fraud.

She ended up finding out the name of the collection agency and talking
them into giving her *something* that she could use to get Comcast to
release the information she needed to prove her own innocence. How do you
provide proof that you didn't live at a certain address at a certain time
if the company that wants the proof won't tell you what you need to know
in order to fulfill their request? It was maddening.


so all this is more convenient to you compared to carrying a few pieces of green paper?

All what? My daughter's ID theft? If so, it was totally unrelated to
any credit and/or debit card. Using cash would not have prevented the
ID theft. If she had never had a debit or credit card in her life it
would not have prevented the ID theft.


I try to use cash for everyday purchases.

I guess that we we have choices....

take care...

m

On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 11:12:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

All what? My daughter's ID theft? If so, it was totally unrelated to
any credit and/or debit card. Using cash would not have prevented the
ID theft. If she had never had a debit or credit card in her life it
would not have prevented the ID theft.

Bingo. My wife and I had our data stolen from OPM (22 million) in a
data hack. Every person in our OPM/FBI/DOJ background checks has been
exposed. The feds gave us 3 years to report it and has paid the cost.
Nothing to do with plastic cards we use.

Uncle Monster posted for all of us...


Several years ago, me and the guys had some calls to go to I think it was Target stores to change out the card readers but the store managers were notified by the corporate office people they spoke to everyday. There were even custom made fasteners with a custom 1/4" drive security bit made just for hardware in their stores. The manager kept the driver bit in the store safe.

Government is pushing a cashless society for one simple reason. Government will be able to tell you,"Do as you're told or we'll turn off your money." If a government can control your money, it controls you. Look for the use of cash and barter to be made serious crimes. This nonsense about government provided health care meaning everyone will be taken care of is the same kind of MBD, Male Bovine Droppings. "Do as you're told or we turn off your
healthcare." The Commiecrat elite will never get their medical care in the same facility as the peasants. I'm no conspiracy nut but I've seen the pattern forming and the manipulation of the citizenry going on for decades. It's media manipulation and it's aimed at different groups over long periods of time to change public opinion and behavior of society. Count the number of ads for credit cards you see every day. Pay attention to the actors in the
ads to see what the makeup of the couples and families being portrayed appear to be. _?_?_/¯

[8~{} Uncle Manipulative Monster


Yeah, but Billy Devane is selling gold!

--
Tekkie