OT where off-topic
Prohibited where void.


Well this was worthy of a thread of its own.

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/...ructions/?_r=0

It turns out that each carrier offers a “bypass the instructions”
keystroke that takes you directly to the beep. (It bypasses both the
person’s own recorded greeting and the 15-second carrier nonsense.)

To be as evil as possible, the carriers do not promote or tell you
about the existence of this keystroke. Furthermore, the key to press
is different with each company:

* for Verizon

1 for Sprint

# for AT&T

# for T-Mobile

Every time you dial a number, you’d have to know which carrier that
person uses. Which is, of course, impossible.

[ I just tried it for my AT&T phone and it worked. I might add Press
# to skip the message, to my message. I'll have to time their message
to know if it's worth it ]

And you can’t just press *-1-# in a row, hoping to cover all
bases—because if you press the wrong keystroke for the wrong carrier,
you wind up boxed into that system’s voicemail menus.

If you’re clever, though, you can do the “one-star-pound” method
recommend by this blogger:

STEP ONE. Press 1. If it’s Sprint, you get the beep, and you’re done.
If you hear an error recording, go on:

STEP TWO. Press *. If it’s Verizon, you get the beep. If not:

STEP THREE: Push #. You get the beep for T-Mobile or Cingular.

You have to pause after each one, and you have to keep listening. But
it’s one small way to fight back. Remember: One Star Pound.

Tomorrow in my e-mail column, I’ll offer a more sweeping suggestion.
(Sign up at nytimes.com/email.)

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/

Update | 11:17 p.m. AT&T’s Mark Seigel has asked that complaint
messages be sent to a different e-mail address, provided below.

Update | 7:50 p.m. Will England of Sprint says the company has now
created a brand-new customer forum dedicated to this topic.

Update | 5:19 p.m. T-Mobile had deleted hundreds of complaints on this
topic from its forum, and even blocked any new messages containing the
word “beep.” But it has now created a new forum just for complaints on
this topic, linked below.

Over the past week, in The New York Times and on my blog, I’ve been
ranting about one particularly blatant money-grab by American
cellphone carriers: the mandatory 15-second voicemail instructions.

Suppose you call my cell to leave me a message. First you hear my own
voice: “Hi, it’s David Pogue. Leave a message, and I’ll get back to
you”–and THEN you hear a 15-second canned carrier message.

* Sprint: “[Phone number] is not available right now. Please leave a
detailed message after the tone. When you have finished recording, you
may hang up, or press pound for more options.”

* Verizon: “At the tone, please record your message. When you have
finished recording, you may hang up, or press 1 for more options. To
leave a callback number, press 5. (Beep)”

* AT&T: “To page this person, press five now. At the tone, please
record your message. When you are finished, you may hang up, or press
one for more options.”

* T-Mobile: “Record your message after the tone. To send a numeric
page, press five. When you are finished recording, hang up, or for
delivery options, press pound.”

(You hear a similar message when you call in to hear your own
messages. “You. Have. 15. Messages. To listen to your messages, press
1.” WHY ELSE WOULD I BE CALLING?)

I, the voicemailbox owner, cannot turn off this additional greeting
message. You, the caller, can bypass it, but only if you know the
secret keypress–and it’s different for each carrier. So you’d have to
know which cellphone carrier I use, and that of every person you’ll
ever call; in other words, this trick is no solution.

[UPDATE: Apple iPhone owners don’t hear these instructions–Apple
insisted that AT&T remove them. And Sprint already DOES let you turn
off the instructions message, although it’s a buried, multi-step
procedure, which you can read in the comments below.]

These messages are outrageous for two reasons. First, they waste your
time. Good heavens: it’s 2009. WE KNOW WHAT TO DO AT THE BEEP.

Do we really need to be told to hang up when we’re finished!? Would
anyone, ever, want to “send a numeric page?” Who still carries a
pager, for heaven’s sake? Or what about “leave a callback number?” We
can SEE the callback number right on our phones!

Second, we’re PAYING for these messages. These little 15-second waits
add up–bigtime. If Verizon’s 70 million customers leave or check
messages twice a weekday, Verizon rakes in about $620 million a year.
That’s your money. And your time: three hours of your time a year,
just sitting there listening to the same message over and over again
every year.

In 2007, I spoke at an international cellular conference in Italy. The
big buzzword was ARPU–Average Revenue Per User. The seminars all had
titles like, “Maximizing ARPU In a Digital Age.” And yes, several
attendees (cell executives) admitted to me, point-blank, that the
voicemail instructions exist primarily to make you use up airtime,
thereby maximizing ARPU.

Right now, the carriers continue to enjoy their billion-dollar scam
only because we’re not organized enough to do anything about it. But
it doesn’t have to be this way. You don’t have to sit there, waiting
to leave your message, listening to a speech recorded by a third-grade
teacher on Ambien.

Let’s push back, and hard. We want those time-wasting, money-leaking
messages eliminated, or at least made optional.

I asked my Twitter followers for help coming up with a war cry, a
slogan, to identify this campaign. They came up with some good ones:

“Where’s the Beep?”

“Let it Beep”

“We Know. Let’s Go.”

“Lose the Wait”

“My Voicemail, My Recording”

“Hell, no, we won’t hold!”

My favorite, though, is the one that sounds like a call to action:
“Take Back the Beep.”

And here’s how we’re going to do it.

We’re going to descend, en masse, on our carriers. Send them a
complaint, politely but firmly. Together, we’ll send them a LOT of
complaints.

If enough of us make our unhappiness known, I’ll bet they’ll change.

I’ve told each of the four major carriers that they’ll be hearing from
us. They’ve told us where to send the messages:

* Verizon: Post a complaint he http://bit.ly/FJncH.

* AT&T: Send e-mail to: .

* Sprint: Post a complaint he http://bit.ly/9CmrZ

* T-Mobile: Post a complaint he http://bit.ly/2rKy0u.

Three of the four carriers are just directing us to their general Web
forums. Smells like a cop-out, I know.

Yet all four carriers promise that they’ll read and consider our
posts. And we have two things going for us.

First, I have a feeling that the volume of complaints will be too big
for them to ignore. To that end, I hope you’ll pass these instructions
along, blog them, Twitter them, and spread the word. (Gizmodo,
Engadget, Consumerist and others have agreed to help out.) And I hope
you’ll take the time to complain yourself. Do it now, before you
forget.

Second, we’ll all be watching. I’ll be reporting on the carriers’
responses. If they ignore us, we’ll shame them. If they respond, we’ll
celebrate them.

Either way, it’s time to rise up. It’s time for this crass,
time-wasting money-grab to end for good.

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:23:24 -0400, Micky
wrote:


* for Verizon

1 for Sprint

# for AT&T

# for T-Mobile

Every time you dial a number, youd have to know which carrier that
person uses. Which is, of course, impossible.

[ I just tried it for my AT&T phone and it worked. I might add Press
# to skip the message, to my message. I'll have to time their message
to know if it's worth it ]

And you cant just press *-1-# in a row, hoping to cover all
bases€”because if you press the wrong keystroke for the wrong carrier,
you wind up boxed into that systems voicemail menus.

If youre clever, though, you can do the €œone-star-pound€� method
recommend by this blogger:

STEP ONE. Press 1. If its Sprint, you get the beep, and youre done.
If you hear an error recording, go on:

STEP TWO. Press *. If its Verizon, you get the beep. If not:

STEP THREE: Push #. You get the beep for T-Mobile or Cingular.

You have to pause after each one, and you have to keep listening. But
its one small way to fight back. Remember: One Star Pound.

Tomorrow in my e-mail column, Ill offer a more sweeping suggestion.
(Sign up at nytimes.com/email.)

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/

Update | 11:17 p.m. AT&Ts Mark Seigel has asked that complaint
messages be sent to a different e-mail address, provided below.

Update | 7:50 p.m. Will England of Sprint says the company has now
created a brand-new customer forum dedicated to this topic.

Update | 5:19 p.m. T-Mobile had deleted hundreds of complaints on this
topic from its forum, and even blocked any new messages containing the
word €œbeep.€� But it has now created a new forum just for complaints on
this topic, linked below.

Over the past week, in The New York Times and on my blog, Ive been
ranting about one particularly blatant money-grab by American
cellphone carriers: the mandatory 15-second voicemail instructions.

Suppose you call my cell to leave me a message. First you hear my own
voice: €œHi, its David Pogue. Leave a message, and Ill get back to
you€�€“and THEN you hear a 15-second canned carrier message.

* Sprint: €œ[Phone number] is not available right now. Please leave a
detailed message after the tone. When you have finished recording, you
may hang up, or press pound for more options.€�

* Verizon: €œAt the tone, please record your message. When you have
finished recording, you may hang up, or press 1 for more options. To
leave a callback number, press 5. (Beep)€�

* AT&T: €œTo page this person, press five now. At the tone, please
record your message. When you are finished, you may hang up, or press
one for more options.€�

* T-Mobile: €œRecord your message after the tone. To send a numeric
page, press five. When you are finished recording, hang up, or for
delivery options, press pound.€�

(You hear a similar message when you call in to hear your own
messages. €œYou. Have. 15. Messages. To listen to your messages, press
1.€� WHY ELSE WOULD I BE CALLING?)

I, the voicemailbox owner, cannot turn off this additional greeting
message. You, the caller, can bypass it, but only if you know the
secret keypress€“and its different for each carrier. So youd have to
know which cellphone carrier I use, and that of every person youll
ever call; in other words, this trick is no solution.

[UPDATE: Apple iPhone owners dont hear these instructions€“Apple
insisted that AT&T remove them. And Sprint already DOES let you turn
off the instructions message, although its a buried, multi-step
procedure, which you can read in the comments below.]

These messages are outrageous for two reasons. First, they waste your
time. Good heavens: its 2009. WE KNOW WHAT TO DO AT THE BEEP.

Do we really need to be told to hang up when were finished!? Would
anyone, ever, want to €œsend a numeric page?€� Who still carries a
pager, for heavens sake? Or what about €œleave a callback number?€� We
can SEE the callback number right on our phones!

Second, were PAYING for these messages. These little 15-second waits
add up€“bigtime. If Verizons 70 million customers leave or check
messages twice a weekday, Verizon rakes in about $620 million a year.
Thats your money. And your time: three hours of your time a year,
just sitting there listening to the same message over and over again
every year.

In 2007, I spoke at an international cellular conference in Italy. The
big buzzword was ARPU€“Average Revenue Per User. The seminars all had
titles like, €œMaximizing ARPU In a Digital Age.€� And yes, several
attendees (cell executives) admitted to me, point-blank, that the
voicemail instructions exist primarily to make you use up airtime,
thereby maximizing ARPU.

Right now, the carriers continue to enjoy their billion-dollar scam
only because were not organized enough to do anything about it. But
it doesnt have to be this way. You dont have to sit there, waiting
to leave your message, listening to a speech recorded by a third-grade
teacher on Ambien.

Lets push back, and hard. We want those time-wasting, money-leaking
messages eliminated, or at least made optional.

I asked my Twitter followers for help coming up with a war cry, a
slogan, to identify this campaign. They came up with some good ones:

€œWheres the Beep?€�

€œLet it Beep€�

€œWe Know. Lets Go.€�

€œLose the Wait€�

€œMy Voicemail, My Recording€�

€œHell, no, we wont hold!€�

My favorite, though, is the one that sounds like a call to action:
€œTake Back the Beep.€�

And heres how were going to do it.

Were going to descend, en masse, on our carriers. Send them a
complaint, politely but firmly. Together, well send them a LOT of
complaints.

If enough of us make our unhappiness known, Ill bet theyll change.

Ive told each of the four major carriers that theyll be hearing from
us. Theyve told us where to send the messages:

* Verizon: Post a complaint he http://bit.ly/FJncH.

* AT&T: Send e-mail to: .

* Sprint: Post a complaint he http://bit.ly/9CmrZ

* T-Mobile: Post a complaint he http://bit.ly/2rKy0u.

Three of the four carriers are just directing us to their general Web
forums. Smells like a cop-out, I know.

Yet all four carriers promise that theyll read and consider our
posts. And we have two things going for us.

First, I have a feeling that the volume of complaints will be too big
for them to ignore. To that end, I hope youll pass these instructions
along, blog them, Twitter them, and spread the word. (Gizmodo,
Engadget, Consumerist and others have agreed to help out.) And I hope
youll take the time to complain yourself. Do it now, before you
forget.

Second, well all be watching. Ill be reporting on the carriers
responses. If they ignore us, well shame them. If they respond, well
celebrate them.

Either way, its time to rise up. Its time for this crass,
time-wasting money-grab to end for good.
Cool, I will try it. Most of my people are Verison so I will start
with *

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:23:24 -0400, Micky
wrote:

Well this was worthy of a thread of its own.

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/...ructions/?_r=0

It turns out that each carrier offers a “bypass the instructions”
keystroke that takes you directly to the beep. (It bypasses both the
person’s own recorded greeting and the 15-second carrier nonsense.)

To be as evil as possible, the carriers do not promote or tell you
about the existence of this keystroke. Furthermore, the key to press
is different with each company:

* for Verizon

1 for Sprint

# for AT&T

# for T-Mobile

Every time you dial a number, you’d have to know which carrier that
person uses. Which is, of course, impossible.

Does anyone know a way to skip the "old voicemails" when I retrieve my
current voicemail? In other words, I get a voicemail, and want to hear
it, but first I have to listen to all my old (Saved) voicemails, first.
(Most annoying). I often save old voicemail because it contains a phone
number, directions, or other info that I will need at a later time,
because I did not have a pen and paper handy when I received it.

I dont know why these idiots that provide the voicemail, can not play
the NEW voicemail FIRST!!!!

In article ,
wrote:


Does anyone know a way to skip the "old voicemails" when I retrieve my
current voicemail? In other words, I get a voicemail, and want to hear
it, but first I have to listen to all my old (Saved) voicemails, first.
(Most annoying). I often save old voicemail because it contains a phone
number, directions, or other info that I will need at a later time,
because I did not have a pen and paper handy when I received it.

visual voicemail.

I dont know why these idiots that provide the voicemail, can not play
the NEW voicemail FIRST!!!!

most do.

On Wednesday, June 29, 2016 at 12:34:05 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:23:24 -0400, Micky
wrote:

Well this was worthy of a thread of its own.

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/...ructions/?_r=0

It turns out that each carrier offers a €œbypass the instructions€�
keystroke that takes you directly to the beep. (It bypasses both the
persons own recorded greeting and the 15-second carrier nonsense.)

To be as evil as possible, the carriers do not promote or tell you
about the existence of this keystroke. Furthermore, the key to press
is different with each company:

* for Verizon

1 for Sprint

# for AT&T

# for T-Mobile

Every time you dial a number, youd have to know which carrier that
person uses. Which is, of course, impossible.

Does anyone know a way to skip the "old voicemails" when I retrieve my
current voicemail? In other words, I get a voicemail, and want to hear
it, but first I have to listen to all my old (Saved) voicemails, first.
(Most annoying). I often save old voicemail because it contains a phone
number, directions, or other info that I will need at a later time,
because I did not have a pen and paper handy when I received it.

I dont know why these idiots that provide the voicemail, can not play
the NEW voicemail FIRST!!!!

What carrier? Verizon lets you listen to new first, then saved. Heck, even my home answering machine plays the new ones first, as does my work voicemail. I've never heard of it being done any other way.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 11:33:32 -0400, wrote:



Does anyone know a way to skip the "old voicemails" when I retrieve my
current voicemail? In other words, I get a voicemail, and want to hear
it, but first I have to listen to all my old (Saved) voicemails, first.
(Most annoying). I often save old voicemail because it contains a phone
number, directions, or other info that I will need at a later time,
because I did not have a pen and paper handy when I received it.

I dont know why these idiots that provide the voicemail, can not play
the NEW voicemail FIRST!!!!

I don't get many phone calls but I think AT&T does play them first.

There's a way to get your voice mail from a real phone, you know, the
one in your home, by dialing your cell number, and not answering or
punching in a punch through number, and some password, but I never got
straight what password was mine.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 18:08:49 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 11:33:32 -0400, wrote:



Does anyone know a way to skip the "old voicemails" when I retrieve my
current voicemail? In other words, I get a voicemail, and want to hear
it, but first I have to listen to all my old (Saved) voicemails, first.
(Most annoying). I often save old voicemail because it contains a phone
number, directions, or other info that I will need at a later time,
because I did not have a pen and paper handy when I received it.

I dont know why these idiots that provide the voicemail, can not play
the NEW voicemail FIRST!!!!

I don't get many phone calls but I think AT&T does play them first.

There's a way to get your voice mail from a real phone, you know, the
one in your home, by dialing your cell number, and not answering or
punching in a punch through number, and some password, but I never got
straight what password was mine.

I never knew about getting the voicemails on my home phone. I assume the
password is the same I use on the cell. I'll have to try it.

I was told my Tracfone uses Verison around here. I am not 100% sure
about that though.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:48:29 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 18:08:49 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 11:33:32 -0400, wrote:



Does anyone know a way to skip the "old voicemails" when I retrieve my
current voicemail? In other words, I get a voicemail, and want to hear
it, but first I have to listen to all my old (Saved) voicemails, first.
(Most annoying). I often save old voicemail because it contains a phone
number, directions, or other info that I will need at a later time,
because I did not have a pen and paper handy when I received it.

I dont know why these idiots that provide the voicemail, can not play
the NEW voicemail FIRST!!!!

I don't get many phone calls but I think AT&T does play them first.

There's a way to get your voice mail from a real phone, you know, the
one in your home, by dialing your cell number, and not answering or
punching in a punch through number, and some password, but I never got
straight what password was mine.

I never knew about getting the voicemails on my home phone. I assume the
password is the same I use on the cell. I'll have to try it.

That was a problem. I couldn't remember any password, and then I
thought I changed it, and also I confused it with the password for my
GoPhone account webpage, or maybe it was the same. I'm just so
confused.

My bank every time I call wants to know my visual password, or
something like that, and it's my mother's maiden name, which I'm sure
I picked from a list of possible qustions and answers and the list
never referred to a visual? password, but all the people who answer
the phone for the bank call it a password and none know that on the
web it was called something else.

I was told my Tracfone uses Verison around here. I am not 100% sure
about that though.

On 06/29/2016 09:54 PM, Micky wrote:

I never knew about getting the voicemails on my home phone. I assume the
password is the same I use on the cell. I'll have to try it.

That was a problem. I couldn't remember any password, and then I
thought I changed it, and also I confused it with the password for my
GoPhone account webpage, or maybe it was the same. I'm just so
confused.

I have to turn my phone off, otherwise the call just goes to my phone
and I have to refuse it blablabla. Call from the home phone, push * as
soon as "she" answers and then feed in my password when asked. They're
almost always spammers so I'm glad I didn't waste a dime (or whatever)
using the cell to hear the message.

--
Cheers, Bev
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """
"We're from the Government. We're here to help."

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:26:48 -0700, The Real Bev
wrote:

On 06/29/2016 09:54 PM, Micky wrote:

I never knew about getting the voicemails on my home phone. I assume the
password is the same I use on the cell. I'll have to try it.

That was a problem. I couldn't remember any password, and then I
thought I changed it, and also I confused it with the password for my
GoPhone account webpage, or maybe it was the same. I'm just so
confused.

I have to turn my phone off, otherwise the call just goes to my phone
and I have to refuse it blablabla. Call from the home phone, push * as
soon as "she" answers and then feed in my password when asked. They're

What phone company is this?

almost always spammers so I'm glad I didn't waste a dime (or whatever)
using the cell to hear the message.

For me it's $2 each day I use the phone and the previous phone kept
calilng in for messages even when I didn't tell it too, as soon as the
phone got turned on.. It sure seemed that way. This one hasn't
called in yet, and I left a message myself a few days ago.

OTOH, this new phone has the on/off on the side, right opposite the
volumen buttons, and I have to learn not to push on one or both of
them when I turn the phone on. The silicone cover makes it a little
harder and longer to turn the phone on, I think.

On 06/29/2016 11:13 PM, Micky wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:26:48 -0700, The Real Bev
wrote:

On 06/29/2016 09:54 PM, Micky wrote:

I never knew about getting the voicemails on my home phone. I assume the
password is the same I use on the cell. I'll have to try it.

That was a problem. I couldn't remember any password, and then I
thought I changed it, and also I confused it with the password for my
GoPhone account webpage, or maybe it was the same. I'm just so
confused.

I have to turn my phone off, otherwise the call just goes to my phone
and I have to refuse it blablabla. Call from the home phone, push * as
soon as "she" answers and then feed in my password when asked. They're

What phone company is this?

T-Mobile. I'd assume other providers offer a similar, if differently
enabled, service.

almost always spammers so I'm glad I didn't waste a dime (or whatever)
using the cell to hear the message.

For me it's $2 each day I use the phone and the previous phone kept
calilng in for messages even when I didn't tell it too, as soon as the
phone got turned on.. It sure seemed that way. This one hasn't
called in yet, and I left a message myself a few days ago.

If you don't normally expect phone calls, why not just turn the 'phone'
part off until you actually want to use it? I only want to receive cell
calls when I'm away from home. Anybody who calls me on the cell when
they don't know I'm not home is by definition a spammer.

Curses. It's becoming less and less painful to use "they" as the
third-person singular pronoun :-(

OTOH, this new phone has the on/off on the side, right opposite the
volumen buttons, and I have to learn not to push on one or both of
them when I turn the phone on. The silicone cover makes it a little
harder and longer to turn the phone on, I think.

Likewise. I think I move my finger to the top and slide it down to the
button. My silicone cover is day-glo green so it's easier to find and
harder to stuff into/slip out of a pocket.

--
Cheers, Bev
66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 666
Cthulhu for President in 2016. Why vote for a lesser evil?

On Thursday, June 30, 2016 at 3:39:18 PM UTC-4, The Real Bev wrote:


Anybody who calls me on the cell when
they don't know I'm not home is by definition a spammer.

Would you mind explaining that statement?

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:39:12 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

Call from the home phone, push * as
soon as "she" answers and then feed in my password when asked. They're

What phone company is this?

T-Mobile. I'd assume other providers offer a similar, if differently
enabled, service.

Sounds like what Page Plus has me do ... except it's not * but # , and the
pass-PIN requested is also to be followed by a # .

T-Mobile *used* to use a universal 1-nnn-MESSAGE number, that would prompt
you for your T-Mobile number and pass-PIN, and then read you your messages.
And no, I don't remember what area code the "nnn" was.

Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

In article , tlvp
wrote:


T-Mobile *used* to use a universal 1-nnn-MESSAGE number, that would prompt
you for your T-Mobile number and pass-PIN, and then read you your messages.

they still do.

And no, I don't remember what area code the "nnn" was.

805

https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-2174#question7

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 23:00:40 -0400, tlvp
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:39:12 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

Call from the home phone, push * as
soon as "she" answers and then feed in my password when asked. They're

What phone company is this?

T-Mobile. I'd assume other providers offer a similar, if differently
enabled, service.

Sounds like what Page Plus has me do ... except it's not * but # , and the
pass-PIN requested is also to be followed by a # .

T-Mobile *used* to use a universal 1-nnn-MESSAGE number, that would prompt
you for your T-Mobile number and pass-PIN, and then read you your messages.
And no, I don't remember what area code the "nnn" was.

I still remember what the codes were to get the phone to ring back in
1962. Installers and repairmen used to to show that the phone was
working, but sick or lazy people could use it to call downstairs or
wherever there was an extension.

I spent years trying to find out what the code was after 1975.

But in the late 50's and 60's it was 1197 and sometimes 1191. At
least in my part of the country.

Cheers, -- tlvp

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:39:12 -0700, The Real Bev
wrote:


For me it's $2 each day I use the phone and the previous phone kept
calilng in for messages even when I didn't tell it too, as soon as the
phone got turned on.. It sure seemed that way. This one hasn't
called in yet, and I left a message myself a few days ago.

If you don't normally expect phone calls, why not just turn the 'phone'
part off until you actually want to use it?

I dind't know you could do that!

Could you also do it with Android 2.4.n?

I only want to receive cell
calls when I'm away from home. Anybody who calls me on the cell when
they don't know I'm not home is by definition a spammer.

Somehow my good friend's landlady (and friend) got my cell phone and
left me a message that I didn't get for weeks. Now my message says,
Hi, this is nnn-nnn-nnnn. I can go months without using my phone so
don't leave a message unless you know I'm going to be checking.

I think that will work.

Curses. It's becoming less and less painful to use "they" as the
third-person singular pronoun :-(

That is a problem. How do you feel about "he"?

OTOH, this new phone has the on/off on the side, right opposite the
volumen buttons, and I have to learn not to push on one or both of
them when I turn the phone on. The silicone cover makes it a little
harder and longer to turn the phone on, I think.

Likewise. I think I move my finger to the top and slide it down to the
button. My silicone cover is day-glo green so it's easier to find and
harder to stuff into/slip out of a pocket.

This is a black phone that came with a black cover. How boring, and
it will be hard to find some day. Plus it probably gets hot in the
sunlight. I found another cover that also works as an easel in both
portrait and landscape, but the current cover is rubbery enough that
it works pretty well leaning against something.
--
Cheers, Bev

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 18:08:49 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 11:33:32 -0400, wrote:



Does anyone know a way to skip the "old voicemails" when I retrieve my
current voicemail? In other words, I get a voicemail, and want to hear
it, but first I have to listen to all my old (Saved) voicemails, first.
(Most annoying). I often save old voicemail because it contains a phone
number, directions, or other info that I will need at a later time,
because I did not have a pen and paper handy when I received it.

I dont know why these idiots that provide the voicemail, can not play
the NEW voicemail FIRST!!!!

I don't get many phone calls but I think AT&T does play them first.

I checked. Yes, it does. Then it offers to play the ones you just
deleted. I ddint' have any old ones, ones I saved earlier, but I'm
still sure it plays new ones first.

New ones since the last time I listened to them.

It might play the oldest of the new ones first. Is that what you
meant??

Probably does. Otherwise it could be very confusing, but by playing
the most recent ones last, the final thing you hear is what was said
last on the topic.

**Is that what you meant?

There's a way to get your voice mail from a real phone, you know, the
one in your home, by dialing your cell number, and not answering or
punching in a punch through number, and some password, but I never got
straight what password was mine.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:48:29 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 18:08:49 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 11:33:32 -0400, wrote:



Does anyone know a way to skip the "old voicemails" when I retrieve my
current voicemail? In other words, I get a voicemail, and want to hear
it, but first I have to listen to all my old (Saved) voicemails, first.
(Most annoying). I often save old voicemail because it contains a phone
number, directions, or other info that I will need at a later time,
because I did not have a pen and paper handy when I received it.

I dont know why these idiots that provide the voicemail, can not play
the NEW voicemail FIRST!!!!

I don't get many phone calls but I think AT&T does play them first.

There's a way to get your voice mail from a real phone, you know, the
one in your home, by dialing your cell number, and not answering or
punching in a punch through number, and some password, but I never got
straight what password was mine.

I never knew about getting the voicemails on my home phone.

Actually, I was mistaken, sort of. You can use the same procedure
from any phone that's not your cell phone. Instructions for AT&T at
the end.

I assume the
password is the same I use on the cell.

I doubt it, but maybe. I don't have a password to get into my cell. I
do have one to get into the webpage associated with my account, that
says how much money is in it, and I was surprised tonight to find out
that it uses the same password as retrieving messages. For 10 years
or more, I've been wrestling between two numbers, thinking one was for
one thing and one the other, but I never did both things in a row
before!!

I find it had to believe I would have to use this same number for a
third thing, as the password for my phone.

I'll have to try it.

I was told my Tracfone uses Verison around here. I am not 100% sure
about that though.

Only a few companies have their own towers and antennas. After that
it's a hullabaloo.


Call voicemail from another phone to check messages

Before you begin Know your voicemail password

If you don’t know it, learn how to reset your voicemail password.
Main steps
Access voicemail from another phone
Accessing your voicemail from another phone is handy when you don't
have your wireless phone with you or when outside a coverage area.

[Or when you want to save money.]

To check your voicemail messages from another phone:

Call your 10-digit wireless number.
When you hear your personal voicemail greeting, press the * key to
interrupt it.
If you reach the main voicemail system greeting, enter your
10-digit wireless phone number, then interrupt your greeting by
pressing the * key.
Enter your voicemail password when prompted.
Follow the voice prompts to listen to your messages.

Additional steps
View message playback options
While listening to your messages, you have the following menu
options:

To rewind 10 seconds, press 1.
To rewind to beginning, press 11.
To skip ahead 10 seconds, press 3.
To skip to end of message, press 33.
To delete message, press 7.
Don’t hang up if you accidentally delete a message.
To recover deleted messages, press 1, then press 9.
To save message, press 9.
To skip message, press #.
To replay message, press 0, then press 4.
To hear more options, press 0.
To return to the Main menu, press *.

They don't mention the first 4 above on the phone, I don't think. And
I think it's better to have them in this list than have to remember
them on the fly.

This is AT&T, don't know about other companies. There should be
federal regulation to make the command numbers the same so one can
change cell phone providers easily.

https://www.att.com/esupport/article...less/KM1009129

That was humor.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:26:48 -0700, The Real Bev
wrote:


I have to turn my phone off, otherwise the call just goes to my phone

I tried it last night and after it rang 4 times at my phone, the
voicemail answered, I pushed * and it asked for my code, and then it
gave me my messages.

There is one junk call which has called 3 times, and it even has a 410
area code. This time the message was blank, and the other two were
test messages from me. I'm glad I didn't spend $2 to hear them.

I think this time I'll finally remembe how to do get my messages from
another phone.

Next reply to this post is differnt.

and I have to refuse it blablabla. Call from the home phone, push * as
soon as "she" answers and then feed in my password when asked. They're
almost always spammers so I'm glad I didn't waste a dime (or whatever)
using the cell to hear the message.

Micky wrote in
:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 23:00:40 -0400, tlvp
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:39:12 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

Call from the home phone, push * as
soon as "she" answers and then feed in my password when asked.
They're

What phone company is this?

T-Mobile. I'd assume other providers offer a similar, if
differently enabled, service.

Sounds like what Page Plus has me do ... except it's not * but # , and
the pass-PIN requested is also to be followed by a # .

T-Mobile *used* to use a universal 1-nnn-MESSAGE number, that would
prompt you for your T-Mobile number and pass-PIN, and then read you
your messages. And no, I don't remember what area code the "nnn" was.

I still remember what the codes were to get the phone to ring back in
1962. Installers and repairmen used to to show that the phone was
working, but sick or lazy people could use it to call downstairs or
wherever there was an extension.

I spent years trying to find out what the code was after 1975.

But in the late 50's and 60's it was 1197 and sometimes 1191. At
least in my part of the country.

Cheers, -- tlvp


I seem to remember that you could call your own number long ago - 50s?
40s? -I seem to remember dialing it, then hanging up, and it would ring.
But that may not be right, because I don't recall that we had dial phones
then? Can't remember when dials started and too lazy to Google.

--
You know it's time to clean the refrigerator
when something closes the door from the inside.

On 06/30/2016 09:33 PM, Micky wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:39:12 -0700, The Real Bev
wrote:

For me it's $2 each day I use the phone and the previous phone
kept calilng in for messages even when I didn't tell it too, as
soon as the phone got turned on.. It sure seemed that way. This
one hasn't called in yet, and I left a message myself a few days
ago.

If you don't normally expect phone calls, why not just turn the
'phone' part off until you actually want to use it?

I dind't know you could do that!

Could you also do it with Android 2.4.n?

I don't know, my earliest Android phone was 4.x.

Somehow my good friend's landlady (and friend) got my cell phone and
left me a message that I didn't get for weeks. Now my message
says, Hi, this is nnn-nnn-nnnn. I can go months without using my
phone so don't leave a message unless you know I'm going to be
checking.

I think that will work.

I should do that. I think mine just says "This is Bev" so that actual
friends will know they haven't got a wrong number. My son's message
used to be "This is the machine; you know what to do."

Curses. It's becoming less and less painful to use "they" as the
third-person singular pronoun :-(

That is a problem. How do you feel about "he"?

I didn't have a problem with it until my consciousness was raised
sometime back in the 90s :-) I really only care because I want to be
grammatically correct but I'm too lazy to write he/she or him/her
whenever it's called for.

I think I move my finger to the top and slide it down to the
button. My silicone cover is day-glo green so it's easier to find
and harder to stuff into/slip out of a pocket.

This is a black phone that came with a black cover.

Mine is white (faux iPhone, I guess; only white was on sale) and white
gets dirty. While I'm a slob, I don't like to actually SEE grubby stuff.

How boring, and it will be hard to find some day. Plus it probably
gets hot in the sunlight. I found another cover that also works as
an easel in both portrait and landscape, but the current cover is
rubbery enough that it works pretty well leaning against something.

Stuff like that, along with cables etc. should be ordered directly from
China rather than paying a local shop a 500% markup for the same stuff.
I've been happy with dx.com and most of the ebay sellers and am both
patient (takes maybe a month) and willing to risk small amounts of money.

--
Cheers, Bev
"It's too bad stupidity isn't painful." - A. S. LaVey

Micky wrote in
:

Somehow my good friend's landlady (and friend) got my cell phone and
left me a message that I didn't get for weeks. Now my message says,
Hi, this is nnn-nnn-nnnn. I can go months without using my phone so
don't leave a message unless you know I'm going to be checking.

I think that will work.


Mine leaves an icon on the top of the screen showing a voice mail is
present. I turn on the phone and check for that every few days.


--
You know it's time to clean the refrigerator
when something closes the door from the inside.

On 07/01/2016 09:01 AM, Micky wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:26:48 -0700, The Real Bev
wrote:


I have to turn my phone off, otherwise the call just goes to my phone

I tried it last night and after it rang 4 times at my phone, the
voicemail answered, I pushed * and it asked for my code, and then it
gave me my messages.

Too much time wasted!

There is one junk call which has called 3 times, and it even has a 410
area code. This time the message was blank, and the other two were
test messages from me. I'm glad I didn't spend $2 to hear them.

Feed suspicious numbers into a normal google search box and it will tell
you what other people have had to say about the number -- mostly that
it's spam.

--
Cheers, Bev
A man's got to know his limitations.
It's a woman's duty to make sure of this.

In article , KenK
wrote:


I still remember what the codes were to get the phone to ring back in
1962. Installers and repairmen used to to show that the phone was
working, but sick or lazy people could use it to call downstairs or
wherever there was an extension.

I spent years trying to find out what the code was after 1975.

But in the late 50's and 60's it was 1197 and sometimes 1191. At
least in my part of the country.



I seem to remember that you could call your own number long ago - 50s?
40s? -I seem to remember dialing it, then hanging up, and it would ring.
But that may not be right, because I don't recall that we had dial phones
then? Can't remember when dials started and too lazy to Google.

calling your own number resulted in a busy signal.

there was a test prefix, which was different for different areas, where
if you dialed *that* prefix plus the last 4 digits then hang up, it
would ring back but with a test tone.

rotary phones worked (and all that existed long ago), but ringback
worked just as well with touchtone.

On 1 Jul 2016 17:46:20 GMT, KenK wrote:

Micky wrote in
:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 23:00:40 -0400, tlvp
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:39:12 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

Call from the home phone, push * as
soon as "she" answers and then feed in my password when asked.
They're

What phone company is this?

T-Mobile. I'd assume other providers offer a similar, if
differently enabled, service.

Sounds like what Page Plus has me do ... except it's not * but # , and
the pass-PIN requested is also to be followed by a # .

T-Mobile *used* to use a universal 1-nnn-MESSAGE number, that would
prompt you for your T-Mobile number and pass-PIN, and then read you
your messages. And no, I don't remember what area code the "nnn" was.

I still remember what the codes were to get the phone to ring back in
1962. Installers and repairmen used to to show that the phone was
working, but sick or lazy people could use it to call downstairs or
wherever there was an extension.

I spent years trying to find out what the code was after 1975.

But in the late 50's and 60's it was 1197 and sometimes 1191. At
least in my part of the country.

Cheers, -- tlvp


I seem to remember that you could call your own number long ago - 50s?
40s? -I seem to remember dialing it, then hanging up, and it would ring.
But that may not be right, because I don't recall that we had dial phones
then? Can't remember when dials started and too lazy to Google.

New York City and maybe some other cities had dial phones in the 40's,
as you can see from movies of the period, but in other places it was
later. I grew up between Pittsburgh and Youngstown and I remember
coming home from school and seeing that the phone man had been there.
He changed the phone in my parents' room but in the kitchen, he took
the 2"x2" square black metal cap off the phone and replaced it with a
cap that had a dial on it. This was between 1953 and 57, probably in
the middle of that range.

I think the experience of having to send a repairman to every home was
a big part of their plan to go modular and make us do such things
ourselves. That and more women work so it's harder to find someone
home. My mother was home 70 to 90% of the time.

On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 10:48:01 -0700, The Real Bev
wrote:

On 06/30/2016 09:33 PM, Micky wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:39:12 -0700, The Real Bev
wrote:

For me it's $2 each day I use the phone and the previous phone
kept calilng in for messages even when I didn't tell it too, as
soon as the phone got turned on.. It sure seemed that way. This
one hasn't called in yet, and I left a message myself a few days
ago.

If you don't normally expect phone calls, why not just turn the
'phone' part off until you actually want to use it?

I dind't know you could do that!

Could you also do it with Android 2.4.n?

I don't know, my earliest Android phone was 4.x.

Somehow my good friend's landlady (and friend) got my cell phone and
left me a message that I didn't get for weeks. Now my message
says, Hi, this is nnn-nnn-nnnn. I can go months without using my
phone so don't leave a message unless you know I'm going to be
checking.

I think that will work.

I should do that. I think mine just says "This is Bev" so that actual
friends will know they haven't got a wrong number. My son's message
used to be "This is the machine; you know what to do."

I like that message. It's the contrast to the phone company telling us
we can hang up after we leave the message. Before they said that, I
used to just hold on until the person I called came home.

Curses. It's becoming less and less painful to use "they" as the
third-person singular pronoun :-(

That is a problem. How do you feel about "he"?

I didn't have a problem with it until my consciousness was raised

My consciousness was raised for a while, but then it got tired and lay
down again. A little later, it fell asleep.

sometime back in the 90s :-) I really only care because I want to be
grammatically correct but I'm too lazy to write he/she or him/her
whenever it's called for.

Somewhere in school, high school or earlier, totally unrelated to him
and her, I got the strong impression that slashes shouldn't be used in
polite or formal writing. Even worse is reading such stuff aloud and
saying "slash".

(This might be related to people who say, not reading just talking,
"this is what the quote unquote instructions say." when it ought to
be " what the quote instructions unquote say".)

I think I move my finger to the top and slide it down to the
button. My silicone cover is day-glo green so it's easier to find
and harder to stuff into/slip out of a pocket.

This is a black phone that came with a black cover.

Mine is white (faux iPhone, I guess; only white was on sale) and white
gets dirty. While I'm a slob, I don't like to actually SEE grubby stuff.

I don't mind the black so much now that I know white or blue phones
are more expensive.

How boring, and it will be hard to find some day. Plus it probably
gets hot in the sunlight. I found another cover that also works as
an easel in both portrait and landscape, but the current cover is
rubbery enough that it works pretty well leaning against something.

Stuff like that, along with cables etc. should be ordered directly from
China rather than paying a local shop a 500% markup for the same stuff.

Indeed.

I've been happy with dx.com and most of the ebay sellers and am both
patient (takes maybe a month) and willing to risk small amounts of money.

Sort of related: I bought a $3.15 7-outlet USB hub with 7 switches and
7 lights from Amazon, and it said it would take 5 to 8 weeks, or
something like that, but it came at 4 weeks. It said I could track it
on UPS, but UPS still has no record of it, and it says nothing about
UPS on the padded envelope it came in.

It's $5 now but will probably go down again. I ddidn't know USB wire
came so thin.

On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 10:50:51 -0700, The Real Bev
wrote:

On 07/01/2016 09:01 AM, Micky wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:26:48 -0700, The Real Bev
wrote:


I have to turn my phone off, otherwise the call just goes to my phone

I tried it last night and after it rang 4 times at my phone, the
voicemail answered, I pushed * and it asked for my code, and then it
gave me my messages.

Too much time wasted!

Good point. For me it was reassuring to see that my new phone knows
how to ring.

There is one junk call which has called 3 times, and it even has a 410
area code. This time the message was blank, and the other two were
test messages from me. I'm glad I didn't spend $2 to hear them.

Feed suspicious numbers into a normal google search box and it will tell
you what other people have had to say about the number -- mostly that
it's spam.

I've done that with this one. The exchange, first three digits, is
(or are) I think one digit off from one many of my friends have, so
it had me fooled at first. But since only 6 people know my cell
number that made me check.

On 07/01/2016 07:38 PM, Micky wrote:
The Real Bev wrote:
On 06/30/2016 09:33 PM, Micky wrote:
wrote:

I think mine just says "This is Bev" so that actual
friends will know they haven't got a wrong number. My son's message
used to be "This is the machine; you know what to do."

I like that message. It's the contrast to the phone company telling us
we can hang up after we leave the message. Before they said that, I
used to just hold on until the person I called came home.

Funny, I used to do that too. I guess those instructions aren't a waste
of time after all.

Curses. It's becoming less and less painful to use "they" as the
third-person singular pronoun :-(

That is a problem. How do you feel about "he"?

I didn't have a problem with it until my consciousness was raised

My consciousness was raised for a while, but then it got tired and lay
down again. A little later, it fell asleep.

sometime back in the 90s :-) I really only care because I want to be
grammatically correct but I'm too lazy to write he/she or him/her
whenever it's called for.

Somewhere in school, high school or earlier, totally unrelated to him
and her, I got the strong impression that slashes shouldn't be used in
polite or formal writing. Even worse is reading such stuff aloud and
saying "slash".

Slashes and double hyphens are too useful to eliminate. Reading them
aloud is completely different, though.

(This might be related to people who say, not reading just talking,
"this is what the quote unquote instructions say." when it ought to
be " what the quote instructions unquote say".)

Or do air-quotes. When we can get free licenses to kill three people
per year I don't think those people would be on my hitlist, but maybe if
it was a slow year...

I think I move my finger to the top and slide it down to the
button. My silicone cover is day-glo green so it's easier to find
and harder to stuff into/slip out of a pocket.

This is a black phone that came with a black cover.

Mine is white (faux iPhone, I guess; only white was on sale) and white
gets dirty. While I'm a slob, I don't like to actually SEE grubby stuff.

I don't mind the black so much now that I know white or blue phones
are more expensive.

A woman had set up a begging station near the entrance to the mall
parking lot across the street. She was there for several days. Her
sign said that she had just found a job and needed money to buy suitable
clothes. She had a white phone. She was also blocking the sidewalk. I
finally told her that she was obviously a scammer, that if she really
needed the money she would have picked up the soda can lying 6 feet away
(worth a nickel and I collected enough cans on our daily bike rides to
buy a very nice [used] bicycle), she was blocking the sidewalk, and if
she was there the next day I was calling the cops.

Stuff like that, along with cables etc. should be ordered directly from
China rather than paying a local shop a 500% markup for the same stuff.

Indeed.

I've been happy with dx.com and most of the ebay sellers and am both
patient (takes maybe a month) and willing to risk small amounts of money.

Sort of related: I bought a $3.15 7-outlet USB hub with 7 switches and
7 lights from Amazon, and it said it would take 5 to 8 weeks, or
something like that, but it came at 4 weeks. It said I could track it
on UPS, but UPS still has no record of it, and it says nothing about
UPS on the padded envelope it came in.

We bought some Chinese button batteries from dx.com that took extra time
because they were shipped from Sweden. Go figure.

It's $5 now but will probably go down again. I didn't know USB wire
came so thin.

I found out that USB3 cables use twice as many wires as USB2 cables, so
I ordered some extension cables so we can easily plug USB3 devices into
the USB3 sockets on the back of the computers. 1 meter long, $3.64
each, free shipping.

--
Cheers, Bev
Nothing is so stupid that you can't find somebody who
did it at least once if you look hard enough.

On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 22:35:26 -0700, The Real Bev
wrote:


I don't mind the black so much now that I know white or blue phones
are more expensive.

A woman had set up a begging station near the entrance to the mall
parking lot across the street. She was there for several days. Her
sign said that she had just found a job and needed money to buy suitable
clothes. She had a white phone. She was also blocking the sidewalk. I

On the NBC news tonight they had acouple whose car insurance went up
25%. They had 3 cars for the two of them. If they can't afford
the insurance, they should sell one car. I would think NBC could
have found a couple with only 2 cars.

finally told her that she was obviously a scammer, that if she really
needed the money she would have picked up the soda can lying 6 feet away
(worth a nickel and I collected enough cans on our daily bike rides to
buy a very nice [used] bicycle), she was blocking the sidewalk, and if
she was there the next day I was calling the cops.

Stuff like that, along with cables etc. should be ordered directly from
China rather than paying a local shop a 500% markup for the same stuff.

Indeed.

I've been happy with dx.com and most of the ebay sellers and am both
patient (takes maybe a month) and willing to risk small amounts of money.

Sort of related: I bought a $3.15 7-outlet USB hub with 7 switches and
7 lights from Amazon, and it said it would take 5 to 8 weeks, or
something like that, but it came at 4 weeks. It said I could track it
on UPS, but UPS still has no record of it, and it says nothing about
UPS on the padded envelope it came in.

We bought some Chinese button batteries from dx.com that took extra time
because they were shipped from Sweden. Go figure.

Those are either nickel-ice or carbide-snow

It's $5 now but will probably go down again. I didn't know USB wire
came so thin.

I found out that USB3 cables use twice as many wires as USB2 cables, so
I ordered some extension cables so we can easily plug USB3 devices into
the USB3 sockets on the back of the computers. 1 meter long, $3.64
each, free shipping.

--
Cheers, Bev
Nothing is so stupid that you can't find somebody who
did it at least once if you look hard enough.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 23:00:40 -0400, tlvp wrote:

T-Mobile *used* to use a universal 1-nnn-MESSAGE number, that would prompt
you for your T-Mobile number and pass-PIN, and then read you your messages.
And no, I don't remember what area code the "nnn" was.

Update: just met that "nnn" again today, and it's 805. Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 10:48:01 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

turn the
'phone' part off until you actually want to use it?

I dind't know you could do that!

Could you also do it with Android 2.4.n?

Turn on "Airplane Mode" :-) . HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 02:00:01 -0400, tlvp
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 23:00:40 -0400, tlvp wrote:

T-Mobile *used* to use a universal 1-nnn-MESSAGE number, that would prompt
you for your T-Mobile number and pass-PIN, and then read you your messages.
And no, I don't remember what area code the "nnn" was.

Update: just met that "nnn" again today, and it's 805. Cheers, -- tlvp

When it gets to 1200, sell.

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 02:06:03 -0400, tlvp
wrote:

On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 10:48:01 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

turn the
'phone' part off until you actually want to use it?

I dind't know you could do that!

Could you also do it with Android 2.4.n?

Turn on "Airplane Mode" :-) . HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp

Oh, yeah, I did know about that, but I didn't put 2 and 2 together.

And I thought you could only do it on an airplane.

On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 22:45:40 -0400, Micky wrote:

I thought you could only do it on an airplane.

Have Jefferson Airplane playing softly in the background.

Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 23:03:50 -0400, tlvp
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 22:45:40 -0400, Micky wrote:

I thought you could only do it on an airplane.

Have Jefferson Airplane playing softly in the background.

That sounds right.

Cheers, -- tlvp