"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
Here they use a compressor powered torque limited thing which looks like a
handheld electric drill. And as for the window, why? I just hang around
in the garage where they're working.


Some places use the impact wrenches with different torque tubes (limiters)
for the required touque. I think this place does,but gives a final check
with the torque wrench.

Most places around here will not let you in the working area. They have a
big sign up about the insurance requirements. I don't blame them, I would
not want someone looking over me while I was trying to do some work.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:29:45 +0100, Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
Here they use a compressor powered torque limited thing which looks like a
handheld electric drill. And as for the window, why? I just hang around
in the garage where they're working.

Some places use the impact wrenches with different torque tubes (limiters)
for the required touque. I think this place does,but gives a final check
with the torque wrench.

Most places around here will not let you in the working area. They have a
big sign up about the insurance requirements. I don't blame them, I would
not want someone looking over me while I was trying to do some work.

Any place with a sign like that wouldn't get my custom.

--
Connecticut police are investigating a string of shootings where clues are reportedly contained in a rap CD.
They are also questioning Bob Marley about the shooting of a sheriff.

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
Unbalanced Wheels
If lug nuts aren't tightened enough, it can be just as dangerous. A loose
wheel will wobble and become unbalanced, and this can cause stress to the
wheel studs, among other issues. The wobbling can eventually loosen all
of the lug nuts until they fall off completely, at which point there
would be nothing holding the entire wheel on the vehicle. This can
obviously lead to catastrophic circumstances while driving.

Funny how those never actually happen.


But they do. In high school several of us were riding down the road about
45 MPH and a tire passed us. A second or so later the back of the car we
were fell down as that was our tire..Good thing it was the back and not the
frount tire.

I worked for a while at a place changing tires while in school. A fellow
came in saying he had just bought a tire and it was wobbling so bad he could
not keep it in the road. The salesman had tried to sell him two radial
tires ( they had not been out too long) but the fellow insisted he only
needed one tire. The sales man told him it would not work as they would make
it difficult to stear if not put on in pairs. While I was putting the other
new tire on, I noticed the other tire had loose lug nuts. I tightened them
and did not say anything about that to him. At that time there was an
impact wrench in the shop that did not work correctly so only snuged the
bolts on.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:39:29 +0100, Ralph Mowery wrote:


"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
Unbalanced Wheels
If lug nuts aren't tightened enough, it can be just as dangerous. A loose
wheel will wobble and become unbalanced, and this can cause stress to the
wheel studs, among other issues. The wobbling can eventually loosen all
of the lug nuts until they fall off completely, at which point there
would be nothing holding the entire wheel on the vehicle. This can
obviously lead to catastrophic circumstances while driving.

Funny how those never actually happen.

But they do. In high school several of us were riding down the road about
45 MPH and a tire passed us. A second or so later the back of the car we
were fell down as that was our tire..Good thing it was the back and not the
frount tire.

I've never heard of that happening, it must be quite rare.

Just a minute, how did it achieve a higher speed than you? Isn't that against the laws of physics?

I worked for a while at a place changing tires while in school.

Tyres. Tires means you're fed up :-P

A fellow
came in saying he had just bought a tire and it was wobbling so bad he could
not keep it in the road. The salesman had tried to sell him two radial
tires (they had not been out too long) but the fellow insisted he only
needed one tire. The sales man told him it would not work as they would make
it difficult to stear if not put on in pairs. While I was putting the other
new tire on, I noticed the other tire had loose lug nuts. I tightened them
and did not say anything about that to him. At that time there was an
impact wrench in the shop that did not work correctly so only snuged the
bolts on.

One radial wouldn't have done that, must have been the loose nuts. I had a Renault once that continually loosened its own nuts. Damn annoying. The only theory anyone came up with was the wheelnuts (they're bolts actually, I've never seen nuts) were a different metal to the wheels and you have to have alloy nuts for alloy wheels or they don't grip.

--
Dear Diary,
I've had this odd feeling for a little while. It's a surrealistically subconscious feeling that I was abducted by aliens and thoroughly probed.
Then a friend of mine told me they got me really drunk and dropped me off at a gay bar.
The *******s.

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 3:46:27 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:22:40 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 3:03:43 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:55:25 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 2:37:25 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:29:49 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 2:03:20 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 03/31/2016 12:14 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
X
After a few raps, they tend to (hopefully) break free.

Honda rotors (and many aftermarket rotors for Honda) also have threaded
holes in their rotors so you can screw a bolt in against the hub and pop
the rotor off.




If the parts can take it, often heating with a propane torch will loosen
things up.

OD expands a fraction more than ID

I did that on car wheelnuts once. I think it worked, I can't remember,
I tried so many things. The final solution, as they kept tightening
during driving, was to get a very long breaker bar and jump up and down
on the end of it.




I've used the heating technique successfully many times for slightly
rusted nuts and bolts.


There was one time I had to remove a tire soon after I had a flat fixed.
They *way* over-tightened it so I put a long pipe on the end of my
"four-way" and ended up bending it all to hell.


I took the car back and told them thy put the wheel on too tightly,
then showed them my twisted "four-way" and said: "and I am NOT a weakling."


I later got a much better quality "four-way" my original was kind of a
cheap piece of crap.

I have always hated four-ways. Long ago, I made sure I had the proper
"single bar" tire iron for all of my cars.

Now I have the proper sized 1/2" sockets, a 25" breaker bar to loosen them
and a torque wrench to put them back on properly.

Even the rusted lugs on my trailer came right off after 2+ years of being
ignored. Breaker bars area so cool!

To put them back on, I just put them on with half the maximum force I can apply. That way I know I can apply twice the force to remove them later.


You do realize that every vehicle has specific torque values that they
want you to use, don't you?

My vehicles range from 80 ft-lbs to 94 ft-lbs.

Why does it have to be that exact? As long you can get it back off, it doesn't come off by itself, and you don't snap the bolt, who cares what the precise number is?


Problems Caused by Improper Torque
There are several different issues that lug nuts with an improper amount of torque can cause. The problems can range in severity depending on whether they are over or under tightened and how far the amount of torque deviates from what is required. Some of the most common lug nut related problems are listed below.

Stretched Wheel Studs
The wheel studs that the lug nuts attach to are designed to provide a tiny amount of give when being tightened. They may stretch a small amount, but not enough to cause any damage when the proper amount of torque is applied. Over-tightening, however, can put too much strain on the wheel studs, weakening them and causing them to suddenly snap while driving, if not during the tightening process itself.

Warped Brake Rotors
Over-tightening the lug nuts is also a major contributor to warped or damaged brake rotors. Once the brake rotors are damaged, a vehicle will shake or vibrate upon braking. The problem is even more pronounced when lug nuts are tightened unevenly or in the wrong pattern, putting more force on some areas of the wheel than others. Depending on the severity, this can be quite dangerous as well as costly to repair. In the worst cases, it becomes difficult or impossible to adequately control a vehicle upon braking.

Unbalanced Wheels
If lug nuts aren't tightened enough, it can be just as dangerous. A loose wheel will wobble and become unbalanced, and this can cause stress to the wheel studs, among other issues. The wobbling can eventually loosen all of the lug nuts until they fall off completely, at which point there would be nothing holding the entire wheel on the vehicle. This can obviously lead to catastrophic circumstances while driving.

Funny how those never actually happen.


Believe what you want. If you don't think that over tightening lug nuts can warp a rotor or
stress a lug, you just keep doing doing it your way.

In the meantime, stay away from my vehicles.

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 4:33:16 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:29:45 +0100, Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
Here they use a compressor powered torque limited thing which looks like a
handheld electric drill. And as for the window, why? I just hang around
in the garage where they're working.

Some places use the impact wrenches with different torque tubes (limiters)
for the required touque. I think this place does,but gives a final check
with the torque wrench.

Most places around here will not let you in the working area. They have a
big sign up about the insurance requirements. I don't blame them, I would
not want someone looking over me while I was trying to do some work.

Any place with a sign like that wouldn't get my custom.


I'll have to buy a whole bunch of those signs just to keep you away.

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 5:16:02 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:39:29 +0100, Ralph Mowery wrote:


"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
Unbalanced Wheels
If lug nuts aren't tightened enough, it can be just as dangerous. A loose
wheel will wobble and become unbalanced, and this can cause stress to the
wheel studs, among other issues. The wobbling can eventually loosen all
of the lug nuts until they fall off completely, at which point there
would be nothing holding the entire wheel on the vehicle. This can
obviously lead to catastrophic circumstances while driving.

Funny how those never actually happen.

But they do. In high school several of us were riding down the road about
45 MPH and a tire passed us. A second or so later the back of the car we
were fell down as that was our tire..Good thing it was the back and not the
frount tire.

I've never heard of that happening, it must be quite rare.

Just a minute, how did it achieve a higher speed than you? Isn't that against the laws of physics?

I worked for a while at a place changing tires while in school.

Tyres. Tires means you're fed up :-P

A fellow
came in saying he had just bought a tire and it was wobbling so bad he could
not keep it in the road. The salesman had tried to sell him two radial
tires (they had not been out too long) but the fellow insisted he only
needed one tire. The sales man told him it would not work as they would make
it difficult to stear if not put on in pairs. While I was putting the other
new tire on, I noticed the other tire had loose lug nuts. I tightened them
and did not say anything about that to him. At that time there was an
impact wrench in the shop that did not work correctly so only snuged the
bolts on.

One radial wouldn't have done that, must have been the loose nuts.
I had a Renault once that continually loosened its own nuts.
Damn annoying.

Maybe you should have torqued them properly.

The only theory anyone came up with was the wheelnuts (they're bolts
actually, I've never seen nuts) were a different metal to the wheels
and you have to have alloy nuts for alloy wheels or they don't grip.

What are these?

http://www.3sx.com/store/catalog/whe...em-06-600l.jpg

What are these?

http://www.okoffroad.com/gifs/stuff/lugnuts-toy-1.jpg

I'll tell you this, if the items in the second image loosen up
you've got problems. If the items in the first image loosen up
you've got *big* problems.

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 3:46:27 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:22:40 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 3:03:43 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:55:25 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 2:37:25 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:29:49 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 2:03:20 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 03/31/2016 12:14 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
X
After a few raps, they tend to (hopefully) break free.

Honda rotors (and many aftermarket rotors for Honda) also have threaded
holes in their rotors so you can screw a bolt in against the hub and pop
the rotor off.




If the parts can take it, often heating with a propane torch will loosen
things up.

OD expands a fraction more than ID

I did that on car wheelnuts once. I think it worked, I can't remember,
I tried so many things. The final solution, as they kept tightening
during driving, was to get a very long breaker bar and jump up and down
on the end of it.




I've used the heating technique successfully many times for slightly
rusted nuts and bolts.


There was one time I had to remove a tire soon after I had a flat fixed.
They *way* over-tightened it so I put a long pipe on the end of my
"four-way" and ended up bending it all to hell.


I took the car back and told them thy put the wheel on too tightly,
then showed them my twisted "four-way" and said: "and I am NOT a weakling."


I later got a much better quality "four-way" my original was kind of a
cheap piece of crap.

I have always hated four-ways. Long ago, I made sure I had the proper
"single bar" tire iron for all of my cars.

Now I have the proper sized 1/2" sockets, a 25" breaker bar to loosen them
and a torque wrench to put them back on properly.

Even the rusted lugs on my trailer came right off after 2+ years of being
ignored. Breaker bars area so cool!

To put them back on, I just put them on with half the maximum force I can apply. That way I know I can apply twice the force to remove them later.


You do realize that every vehicle has specific torque values that they
want you to use, don't you?

My vehicles range from 80 ft-lbs to 94 ft-lbs.

Why does it have to be that exact? As long you can get it back off, it doesn't come off by itself, and you don't snap the bolt, who cares what the precise number is?


Problems Caused by Improper Torque
There are several different issues that lug nuts with an improper amount of torque can cause. The problems can range in severity depending on whether they are over or under tightened and how far the amount of torque deviates from what is required. Some of the most common lug nut related problems are listed below.

Stretched Wheel Studs
The wheel studs that the lug nuts attach to are designed to provide a tiny amount of give when being tightened. They may stretch a small amount, but not enough to cause any damage when the proper amount of torque is applied. Over-tightening, however, can put too much strain on the wheel studs, weakening them and causing them to suddenly snap while driving, if not during the tightening process itself.

Warped Brake Rotors
Over-tightening the lug nuts is also a major contributor to warped or damaged brake rotors. Once the brake rotors are damaged, a vehicle will shake or vibrate upon braking. The problem is even more pronounced when lug nuts are tightened unevenly or in the wrong pattern, putting more force on some areas of the wheel than others. Depending on the severity, this can be quite dangerous as well as costly to repair. In the worst cases, it becomes difficult or impossible to adequately control a vehicle upon braking.

Unbalanced Wheels
If lug nuts aren't tightened enough, it can be just as dangerous. A loose wheel will wobble and become unbalanced, and this can cause stress to the wheel studs, among other issues. The wobbling can eventually loosen all of the lug nuts until they fall off completely, at which point there would be nothing holding the entire wheel on the vehicle. This can obviously lead to catastrophic circumstances while driving.

Funny how those never actually happen.


Excellent article explaining the different ways that wheels can
separate from a vehicle. Pay special attention to the discussion
related to "clamping force" and how the proper clamping force is
achieved through proper torque.

If you want to see lots of examples of wheels coming off cars, just
check out youtube.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 00:33:41 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 3:46:27 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:22:40 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 3:03:43 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:55:25 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 2:37:25 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:29:49 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 2:03:20 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 03/31/2016 12:14 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
X
After a few raps, they tend to (hopefully) break free.

Honda rotors (and many aftermarket rotors for Honda) also have threaded
holes in their rotors so you can screw a bolt in against the hub and pop
the rotor off.




If the parts can take it, often heating with a propane torch will loosen
things up.

OD expands a fraction more than ID

I did that on car wheelnuts once. I think it worked, I can't remember,
I tried so many things. The final solution, as they kept tightening
during driving, was to get a very long breaker bar and jump up and down
on the end of it.




I've used the heating technique successfully many times for slightly
rusted nuts and bolts.


There was one time I had to remove a tire soon after I had a flat fixed.
They *way* over-tightened it so I put a long pipe on the end of my
"four-way" and ended up bending it all to hell.


I took the car back and told them thy put the wheel on too tightly,
then showed them my twisted "four-way" and said: "and I am NOT a weakling."


I later got a much better quality "four-way" my original was kind of a
cheap piece of crap.

I have always hated four-ways. Long ago, I made sure I had the proper
"single bar" tire iron for all of my cars.

Now I have the proper sized 1/2" sockets, a 25" breaker bar to loosen them
and a torque wrench to put them back on properly.

Even the rusted lugs on my trailer came right off after 2+ years of being
ignored. Breaker bars area so cool!

To put them back on, I just put them on with half the maximum force I can apply. That way I know I can apply twice the force to remove them later.


You do realize that every vehicle has specific torque values that they
want you to use, don't you?

My vehicles range from 80 ft-lbs to 94 ft-lbs.

Why does it have to be that exact? As long you can get it back off, it doesn't come off by itself, and you don't snap the bolt, who cares what the precise number is?


Problems Caused by Improper Torque
There are several different issues that lug nuts with an improper amount of torque can cause. The problems can range in severity depending on whether they are over or under tightened and how far the amount of torque deviates from what is required. Some of the most common lug nut related problems are listed below.

Stretched Wheel Studs
The wheel studs that the lug nuts attach to are designed to provide a tiny amount of give when being tightened. They may stretch a small amount, but not enough to cause any damage when the proper amount of torque is applied. Over-tightening, however, can put too much strain on the wheel studs, weakening them and causing them to suddenly snap while driving, if not during the tightening process itself.

Warped Brake Rotors
Over-tightening the lug nuts is also a major contributor to warped or damaged brake rotors. Once the brake rotors are damaged, a vehicle will shake or vibrate upon braking. The problem is even more pronounced when lug nuts are tightened unevenly or in the wrong pattern, putting more force on some areas of the wheel than others. Depending on the severity, this can be quite dangerous as well as costly to repair. In the worst cases, it becomes difficult or impossible to adequately control a vehicle upon braking.

Unbalanced Wheels
If lug nuts aren't tightened enough, it can be just as dangerous. A loose wheel will wobble and become unbalanced, and this can cause stress to the wheel studs, among other issues. The wobbling can eventually loosen all of the lug nuts until they fall off completely, at which point there would be nothing holding the entire wheel on the vehicle. This can obviously lead to catastrophic circumstances while driving.

Funny how those never actually happen.


Excellent article explaining the different ways that wheels can
separate from a vehicle. Pay special attention to the discussion
related to "clamping force" and how the proper clamping force is
achieved through proper torque.

If you want to see lots of examples of wheels coming off cars, just
check out youtube.

Amplification of bad things, only the ones that go tits up are filmed and published. Gives the wrong impression of chance.

--
When a man steals your wife, there is no better revenge than to let him keep her.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 00:06:33 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 5:16:02 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:39:29 +0100, Ralph Mowery wrote:


"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news Unbalanced Wheels
If lug nuts aren't tightened enough, it can be just as dangerous. A loose
wheel will wobble and become unbalanced, and this can cause stress to the
wheel studs, among other issues. The wobbling can eventually loosen all
of the lug nuts until they fall off completely, at which point there
would be nothing holding the entire wheel on the vehicle. This can
obviously lead to catastrophic circumstances while driving.

Funny how those never actually happen.

But they do. In high school several of us were riding down the road about
45 MPH and a tire passed us. A second or so later the back of the car we
were fell down as that was our tire..Good thing it was the back and not the
frount tire.

I've never heard of that happening, it must be quite rare.

Just a minute, how did it achieve a higher speed than you? Isn't that against the laws of physics?

I worked for a while at a place changing tires while in school.

Tyres. Tires means you're fed up :-P

A fellow
came in saying he had just bought a tire and it was wobbling so bad he could
not keep it in the road. The salesman had tried to sell him two radial
tires (they had not been out too long) but the fellow insisted he only
needed one tire. The sales man told him it would not work as they would make
it difficult to stear if not put on in pairs. While I was putting the other
new tire on, I noticed the other tire had loose lug nuts. I tightened them
and did not say anything about that to him. At that time there was an
impact wrench in the shop that did not work correctly so only snuged the
bolts on.

One radial wouldn't have done that, must have been the loose nuts.
I had a Renault once that continually loosened its own nuts.
Damn annoying.

Maybe you should have torqued them properly.

Only car that did it - therefore French ****e.

The only theory anyone came up with was the wheelnuts (they're bolts
actually, I've never seen nuts) were a different metal to the wheels
and you have to have alloy nuts for alloy wheels or they don't grip.

What are these?

http://www.3sx.com/store/catalog/whe...em-06-600l.jpg

What are these?

http://www.okoffroad.com/gifs/stuff/lugnuts-toy-1.jpg

I'll tell you this, if the items in the second image loosen up
you've got problems. If the items in the first image loosen up
you've got *big* problems.

Never had a car with either of those. Every single time I've changed a tyre, I take out a BOLT. I don't suppose one is any better than the other. Expect it might be a little easier to put the wheel on if you can hang it on the bolts that are already there, then apply nuts. With wheel bolts, you have to hold the wheel up while you get the first bolt in.

--
More people in the UK are injured by standing on upturned mains plugs than by electric shocks.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 23:55:47 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 4:33:16 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:29:45 +0100, Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news Here they use a compressor powered torque limited thing which looks like a
handheld electric drill. And as for the window, why? I just hang around
in the garage where they're working.

Some places use the impact wrenches with different torque tubes (limiters)
for the required touque. I think this place does,but gives a final check
with the torque wrench.

Most places around here will not let you in the working area. They have a
big sign up about the insurance requirements. I don't blame them, I would
not want someone looking over me while I was trying to do some work.

Any place with a sign like that wouldn't get my custom.


I'll have to buy a whole bunch of those signs just to keep you away.

Never throw away a paying customer.

--
A patient complained to his doctor, "I've been to three other doctors and none of them agreed with your diagnosis."
The doctor calmly replied, "Just wait until the autopsy, then they'll see that I was right."

On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 23:53:10 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 3:46:27 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:22:40 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 3:03:43 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:55:25 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 2:37:25 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:29:49 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 2:03:20 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 03/31/2016 12:14 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
X
After a few raps, they tend to (hopefully) break free.

Honda rotors (and many aftermarket rotors for Honda) also have threaded
holes in their rotors so you can screw a bolt in against the hub and pop
the rotor off.




If the parts can take it, often heating with a propane torch will loosen
things up.

OD expands a fraction more than ID

I did that on car wheelnuts once. I think it worked, I can't remember,
I tried so many things. The final solution, as they kept tightening
during driving, was to get a very long breaker bar and jump up and down
on the end of it.




I've used the heating technique successfully many times for slightly
rusted nuts and bolts.


There was one time I had to remove a tire soon after I had a flat fixed.
They *way* over-tightened it so I put a long pipe on the end of my
"four-way" and ended up bending it all to hell.


I took the car back and told them thy put the wheel on too tightly,
then showed them my twisted "four-way" and said: "and I am NOT a weakling."


I later got a much better quality "four-way" my original was kind of a
cheap piece of crap.

I have always hated four-ways. Long ago, I made sure I had the proper
"single bar" tire iron for all of my cars.

Now I have the proper sized 1/2" sockets, a 25" breaker bar to loosen them
and a torque wrench to put them back on properly.

Even the rusted lugs on my trailer came right off after 2+ years of being
ignored. Breaker bars area so cool!

To put them back on, I just put them on with half the maximum force I can apply. That way I know I can apply twice the force to remove them later.


You do realize that every vehicle has specific torque values that they
want you to use, don't you?

My vehicles range from 80 ft-lbs to 94 ft-lbs.

Why does it have to be that exact? As long you can get it back off, it doesn't come off by itself, and you don't snap the bolt, who cares what the precise number is?


Problems Caused by Improper Torque
There are several different issues that lug nuts with an improper amount of torque can cause. The problems can range in severity depending on whether they are over or under tightened and how far the amount of torque deviates from what is required. Some of the most common lug nut related problems are listed below.

Stretched Wheel Studs
The wheel studs that the lug nuts attach to are designed to provide a tiny amount of give when being tightened. They may stretch a small amount, but not enough to cause any damage when the proper amount of torque is applied. Over-tightening, however, can put too much strain on the wheel studs, weakening them and causing them to suddenly snap while driving, if not during the tightening process itself.

Warped Brake Rotors
Over-tightening the lug nuts is also a major contributor to warped or damaged brake rotors. Once the brake rotors are damaged, a vehicle will shake or vibrate upon braking. The problem is even more pronounced when lug nuts are tightened unevenly or in the wrong pattern, putting more force on some areas of the wheel than others. Depending on the severity, this can be quite dangerous as well as costly to repair. In the worst cases, it becomes difficult or impossible to adequately control a vehicle upon braking.

Unbalanced Wheels
If lug nuts aren't tightened enough, it can be just as dangerous. A loose wheel will wobble and become unbalanced, and this can cause stress to the wheel studs, among other issues. The wobbling can eventually loosen all of the lug nuts until they fall off completely, at which point there would be nothing holding the entire wheel on the vehicle. This can obviously lead to catastrophic circumstances while driving.

Funny how those never actually happen.


Believe what you want. If you don't think that over tightening lug nuts can warp a rotor or
stress a lug, you just keep doing doing it your way.

In the meantime, stay away from my vehicles.

I've owned about 15 vehicles in 19 years, so that's a big enough data set to tell that it's not likely.

--
I have a photographic memory that was never developed.

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 8:21:15 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 23:55:47 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 4:33:16 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:29:45 +0100, Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news Here they use a compressor powered torque limited thing which looks like a
handheld electric drill. And as for the window, why? I just hang around
in the garage where they're working.

Some places use the impact wrenches with different torque tubes (limiters)
for the required touque. I think this place does,but gives a final check
with the torque wrench.

Most places around here will not let you in the working area. They have a
big sign up about the insurance requirements. I don't blame them, I would
not want someone looking over me while I was trying to do some work.

Any place with a sign like that wouldn't get my custom.


I'll have to buy a whole bunch of those signs just to keep you away.

Never throw away a paying customer.


BS

I've fired paying clients more than a few times. Either their demands
weren't worth the money they paid me or their demands would only lead
to possible liabilities later on. Rather than risk some high paid lawyer
saying "You're the expert, you should have known better than to listen
to them" I fired them before it came to that.

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 8:21:59 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 23:53:10 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 3:46:27 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:22:40 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 3:03:43 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:55:25 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 2:37:25 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:29:49 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 2:03:20 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 03/31/2016 12:14 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
X
After a few raps, they tend to (hopefully) break free.

Honda rotors (and many aftermarket rotors for Honda) also have threaded
holes in their rotors so you can screw a bolt in against the hub and pop
the rotor off.




If the parts can take it, often heating with a propane torch will loosen
things up.

OD expands a fraction more than ID

I did that on car wheelnuts once. I think it worked, I can't remember,
I tried so many things. The final solution, as they kept tightening
during driving, was to get a very long breaker bar and jump up and down
on the end of it.




I've used the heating technique successfully many times for slightly
rusted nuts and bolts.


There was one time I had to remove a tire soon after I had a flat fixed.
They *way* over-tightened it so I put a long pipe on the end of my
"four-way" and ended up bending it all to hell.


I took the car back and told them thy put the wheel on too tightly,
then showed them my twisted "four-way" and said: "and I am NOT a weakling."


I later got a much better quality "four-way" my original was kind of a
cheap piece of crap.

I have always hated four-ways. Long ago, I made sure I had the proper
"single bar" tire iron for all of my cars.

Now I have the proper sized 1/2" sockets, a 25" breaker bar to loosen them
and a torque wrench to put them back on properly.

Even the rusted lugs on my trailer came right off after 2+ years of being
ignored. Breaker bars area so cool!

To put them back on, I just put them on with half the maximum force I can apply. That way I know I can apply twice the force to remove them later.


You do realize that every vehicle has specific torque values that they
want you to use, don't you?

My vehicles range from 80 ft-lbs to 94 ft-lbs.

Why does it have to be that exact? As long you can get it back off, it doesn't come off by itself, and you don't snap the bolt, who cares what the precise number is?


Problems Caused by Improper Torque
There are several different issues that lug nuts with an improper amount of torque can cause. The problems can range in severity depending on whether they are over or under tightened and how far the amount of torque deviates from what is required. Some of the most common lug nut related problems are listed below.

Stretched Wheel Studs
The wheel studs that the lug nuts attach to are designed to provide a tiny amount of give when being tightened. They may stretch a small amount, but not enough to cause any damage when the proper amount of torque is applied. Over-tightening, however, can put too much strain on the wheel studs, weakening them and causing them to suddenly snap while driving, if not during the tightening process itself.

Warped Brake Rotors
Over-tightening the lug nuts is also a major contributor to warped or damaged brake rotors. Once the brake rotors are damaged, a vehicle will shake or vibrate upon braking. The problem is even more pronounced when lug nuts are tightened unevenly or in the wrong pattern, putting more force on some areas of the wheel than others. Depending on the severity, this can be quite dangerous as well as costly to repair. In the worst cases, it becomes difficult or impossible to adequately control a vehicle upon braking.

Unbalanced Wheels
If lug nuts aren't tightened enough, it can be just as dangerous. A loose wheel will wobble and become unbalanced, and this can cause stress to the wheel studs, among other issues. The wobbling can eventually loosen all of the lug nuts until they fall off completely, at which point there would be nothing holding the entire wheel on the vehicle. This can obviously lead to catastrophic circumstances while driving.

Funny how those never actually happen.


Believe what you want. If you don't think that over tightening lug nuts can warp a rotor or
stress a lug, you just keep doing doing it your way.

In the meantime, stay away from my vehicles.

I've owned about 15 vehicles in 19 years, so that's a big enough data set to tell that it's not likely.


Another idiotic statement. Perhaps you should leave off your tag lines
and just use statements like that. They are almost as funny.

On 03/31/2016 08:36 AM, Mr Macaw wrote:
Yes, easy out was the first term I heard, a brand name presumably.

Do they actually work?


Yes. Of course if you manage to break the extractor off you're totally
screwed since they are hardened. Depending upon the location you might
learn about EDM and I don't mean dance music.

http://www.amazon.com/Alden-8430P-Gr.../dp/B000H6PM32

Those work extremely well. They really shine where you have a stripped
out Philips or Torx head. Deck screws in particular tend to be a bitch
to remove. You do need a healthy reversing drill motor.

On 3/31/2016 6:53 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 3:46:27 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:22:40 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

If lug nuts aren't tightened enough, it
can be just as dangerous. A loose wheel will
wobble and become unbalanced, and this can
cause stress to the wheel studs, among other
issues. The wobbling can eventually loosen all
of the lug nuts until they fall off completely,
at which point there would be nothing holding
the entire wheel on the vehicle. This can obviously
lead to catastrophic circumstances while driving.

Funny how those never actually happen.


Believe what you want. If you don't think that
over tightening lug nuts can warp a rotor or
stress a lug, you just keep doing doing it your way.

In the meantime, stay away from my vehicles.


I've had lugs come loose. And more than once when a
wheel fell off. Each time due to improper torque.
One time due to failure to recheck torque on an
aluminum wheel after 25, and then after 50 miles
of driving. So, yes, I know that lug torque and
torque recheck are both important.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 3/31/2016 8:38 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 8:21:15 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
I'll have to buy a whole bunch of those signs just to keep you away.

Never throw away a paying customer.


BS

I've fired paying clients more than a few times. Either their demands
weren't worth the money they paid me or their demands would only lead
to possible liabilities later on. Rather than risk some high paid lawyer
saying "You're the expert, you should have known better than to listen
to them" I fired them before it came to that.


I've fired customers, on a couple occasions. One
was a guy who was verbally and orally abusive.
Other was a place that had a master key system.
The guy wanted me to use the master key chart that
earlier locksmith had written. I met the other
guy once, he was so proud of his computer program.
Anyhow, I could tell which keys worked each other
locks. Mentioned it, the customer found I was correct,
but "we'll just hope no one notices". I fired him
at that point.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 2016-04-01, rbowman wrote:

http://www.amazon.com/Alden-8430P-Gr.../dp/B000H6PM32

Those work extremely well. They really shine where you have a stripped
out Philips or Torx head. Deck screws in particular tend to be a bitch
to remove. You do need a healthy reversing drill motor.

I'll be doing some deck repair, so that is a welcome tip. Thnx.

nb

DerbyDad03 wrote:

How much longer are you going to feed this troll ?

--
Snag

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 11:08:45 PM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

How much longer are you going to feed this troll ?

--
Snag

Until I get bored of him.

On 3/31/2016 9:50 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 8:21:15 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
Never throw away a paying customer.





I've fired customers, on a couple occasions. One
was a guy who was verbally and orally abusive.
Other was a place that had a master key system.
The guy wanted me to use the master key chart that
earlier locksmith had written. I met the other
guy once, he was so proud of his computer program.
Anyhow, I could tell which keys worked each other
locks. Mentioned it, the customer found I was correct,
but "we'll just hope no one notices". I fired him
at that point.


There are plenty of reasons to fire a customer. Anyone demanding a
price break that is unreasonable for starter. Just walk away. We gave
up a million dollar account for that reason. One of our competitors
took the work though. Filed for Chapter 11 a year later.

On 4/1/2016 11:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/31/2016 9:50 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I've fired customers, on a couple occasions. One
was a guy who was verbally and orally abusive.
Other was a place that had a master key system.
The guy wanted me to use the master key chart that
earlier locksmith had written. I met the other
guy once, he was so proud of his computer program.
Anyhow, I could tell which keys worked each other
locks. Mentioned it, the customer found I was correct,
but "we'll just hope no one notices". I fired him
at that point.


There are plenty of reasons to fire a customer. Anyone demanding a
price break that is unreasonable for starter. Just walk away. We gave
up a million dollar account for that reason. One of our competitors
took the work though. Filed for Chapter 11 a year later.

I can't quote the source, some thing told me
in person. There is a plastic factory some
where in NYS, they got a low bid from Walmart,
to make a million or so items. The bid was so
low, they would not have stayed in business.
They declined, as I remember hearing told.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 02:50:52 +0100, Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 3/31/2016 8:38 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 8:21:15 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
I'll have to buy a whole bunch of those signs just to keep you away.

Never throw away a paying customer.

BS

I've fired paying clients more than a few times. Either their demands
weren't worth the money they paid me or their demands would only lead
to possible liabilities later on. Rather than risk some high paid lawyer
saying "You're the expert, you should have known better than to listen
to them" I fired them before it came to that.

If he asked you to do X, it's not your fault if it breaks because he got you to do it that way. What kind of childish legal system do you have over there? The rule appears to be anybody can blame anybody but themselves, you lot are truly pathetic.

I've fired customers, on a couple occasions. One
was a guy who was verbally and orally abusive.

Verbally AND orally. What both? Er.... pssst.... they're the same. And neither matters.

Other was a place that had a master key system.
The guy wanted me to use the master key chart that
earlier locksmith had written. I met the other
guy once, he was so proud of his computer program.
Anyhow, I could tell which keys worked each other
locks. Mentioned it, the customer found I was correct,
but "we'll just hope no one notices". I fired him
at that point.

Why?

--
Maybe the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence because that is where the leaky septic tank is buried.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 17:20:05 +0100, Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 4/1/2016 11:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/31/2016 9:50 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I've fired customers, on a couple occasions. One
was a guy who was verbally and orally abusive.
Other was a place that had a master key system.
The guy wanted me to use the master key chart that
earlier locksmith had written. I met the other
guy once, he was so proud of his computer program.
Anyhow, I could tell which keys worked each other
locks. Mentioned it, the customer found I was correct,
but "we'll just hope no one notices". I fired him
at that point.


There are plenty of reasons to fire a customer. Anyone demanding a
price break that is unreasonable for starter. Just walk away. We gave
up a million dollar account for that reason. One of our competitors
took the work though. Filed for Chapter 11 a year later.

I can't quote the source, some thing told me
in person. There is a plastic factory some
where in NYS, they got a low bid from Walmart,
to make a million or so items. The bid was so
low, they would not have stayed in business.
They declined, as I remember hearing told.

I originally said "never throw away a PAYING customer. Paying clearly means making you money. DOH!

--
Reticulating splines....

On 4/1/2016 12:35 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


I originally said "never throw away a PAYING customer. Paying clearly means making you money. DOH!


Paying only means the customer pays the invoice.

Whether or not there is profit is another matter, you dumb Psittacidae. ;-)

On 4/1/2016 12:34 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
Verbally AND orally. What both? Er.... pssst.... they're the same. And neither matters.

Orally abusive means they bit or inflicted harm to his genitals, you dumb Psittacidae. ;-)

On 4/1/2016 12:46 PM, Sum Ting Wong wrote:
On 4/1/2016 12:34 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
Verbally AND orally. What both? Er.... pssst.... they're the same.
And neither matters.

Orally abusive means they bit or inflicted harm to his genitals, you
dumb Psittacidae. ;-)

Orally means using speech, or mouth
generated sounds.

Which is different than verbally,
which means using words.

It is possible to be oral without
being verbal, and the reverse is
also true.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 2:36:37 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...

Now days I insist they put the lugs on loosely, and
I'll torque them myself. Some garages balk at that
idea, "your wheel will fall off".


Discount Tire where I got my last 2 sets of tires for the vehicles impressed
me. They have a large window where you can see the work being done. They
use impact wrenches to tighten the lug nuts, but for a final tighten they
use a torque wrench.

A final tighten, or a final check?

If they have the impact wrench set low enough, and then they add some torque with the torque wrench, seems to me that is the ideal way to do it.

But usually I see them put them on with the air tool and check with the torque wrench. That proves it had at least enough torque, but doesn't prove there isn't too much. You would have to loosen and retighten, and I've never seen that happen.

Here's a good article from an interesting site:
http://www.boltscience.com/pages/quality.htm

http://www.boltscience.com/pages/tighten.htm

Or this.

On 3/31/2016 10:23 AM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 16:38:05 +0100, Colonel Edmund J. Burke
wrote:

On 3/31/2016 7:36 AM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:34:06 +0100, Colonel Edmund J. Burke
wrote:

On 3/31/2016 7:26 AM, Mr Macaw wrote:
These sound useful, ever used anything like this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181742384239

Over hear they are called Easy Outs.
I've used 'em in my many handymanish wanderings, so to speak.

Yes, easy out was the first term I heard, a brand name presumably.

Do they actually work?


Sir, pay no heed to these other "fantasy" handymen. I can assure you
they work just fine, but not alone, mind you. One must first create a
depression in the surface of that which is to be extracted, so that the
easy out can burrow deep within and take purchase.

Are you not meant to drill all the way in so the easy out isn't tapping
at all?


That's a BIG NEGATIVE on that one, good buddy. Just far enough in so
that yer easy out can grab a'hold.
Roger that?

On 3/31/2016 6:41 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 03/31/2016 08:36 AM, Mr Macaw wrote:
Yes, easy out was the first term I heard, a brand name presumably.

Do they actually work?


Yes. Of course if you manage to break the extractor off you're totally
screwed since they are hardened. Depending upon the location you might
learn about EDM and I don't mean dance music.

http://www.amazon.com/Alden-8430P-Gr.../dp/B000H6PM32

Those work extremely well. They really shine where you have a stripped
out Philips or Torx head. Deck screws in particular tend to be a bitch
to remove. You do need a healthy reversing drill motor.


How the **** you gonna use a bench drill on a gawddamned wall?

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 12:34:22 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 02:50:52 +0100, Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 3/31/2016 8:38 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 8:21:15 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
I'll have to buy a whole bunch of those signs just to keep you away.

Never throw away a paying customer.

BS

I've fired paying clients more than a few times. Either their demands
weren't worth the money they paid me or their demands would only lead
to possible liabilities later on. Rather than risk some high paid lawyer
saying "You're the expert, you should have known better than to listen
to them" I fired them before it came to that.

If he asked you to do X, it's not your fault if it breaks because he got you to do it that way. What kind of childish legal system do you have over there? The rule appears to be anybody can blame anybody but themselves, you lot are truly pathetic.

Your responses just keep getting stupider and stupider.

I may get bored with you sooner than I thought.


I've fired customers, on a couple occasions. One
was a guy who was verbally and orally abusive.

Verbally AND orally. What both? Er.... pssst.... they're the same. And neither matters.

Other was a place that had a master key system.
The guy wanted me to use the master key chart that
earlier locksmith had written. I met the other
guy once, he was so proud of his computer program.
Anyhow, I could tell which keys worked each other
locks. Mentioned it, the customer found I was correct,
but "we'll just hope no one notices". I fired him
at that point.

Why?

--

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 12:35:18 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 17:20:05 +0100, Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 4/1/2016 11:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/31/2016 9:50 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I've fired customers, on a couple occasions. One
was a guy who was verbally and orally abusive.
Other was a place that had a master key system.
The guy wanted me to use the master key chart that
earlier locksmith had written. I met the other
guy once, he was so proud of his computer program.
Anyhow, I could tell which keys worked each other
locks. Mentioned it, the customer found I was correct,
but "we'll just hope no one notices". I fired him
at that point.


There are plenty of reasons to fire a customer. Anyone demanding a
price break that is unreasonable for starter. Just walk away. We gave
up a million dollar account for that reason. One of our competitors
took the work though. Filed for Chapter 11 a year later.

I can't quote the source, some thing told me
in person. There is a plastic factory some
where in NYS, they got a low bid from Walmart,
to make a million or so items. The bid was so
low, they would not have stayed in business.
They declined, as I remember hearing told.

I originally said "never throw away a PAYING customer. Paying clearly means making you money. DOH!


As I said before, there are reasons to throw away a paying customer, even
if they are "making you money". BTDT

Steve pays me well. Steve treats me with respect. I'm happy to have Steve
as a client. I might even give Steve a discount.

Bob pays me well. Bob treats me like crap. Bye Bye Bob. I don't need Bob's
money badly enough to put up with his attitude.

It's obvious that you don't mind being crapped on...you keep coming back here.

On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 12:50:33 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Your responses just keep getting stupider and stupider.

I may get bored with you sooner than I thought.

Derby,

Save your key strokes. Ostrich is destined to be the top poster this
month when the stats are posted by badgolferman ~ 3.000 post. You
can't reason with the brit red bellies, when they don't use facts.

His troll cronies will be in the top three, to.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 20:50:33 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 12:34:22 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 02:50:52 +0100, Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 3/31/2016 8:38 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 8:21:15 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
I'll have to buy a whole bunch of those signs just to keep you away.

Never throw away a paying customer.

BS

I've fired paying clients more than a few times. Either their demands
weren't worth the money they paid me or their demands would only lead
to possible liabilities later on. Rather than risk some high paid lawyer
saying "You're the expert, you should have known better than to listen
to them" I fired them before it came to that.

If he asked you to do X, it's not your fault if it breaks because he got you to do it that way. What kind of childish legal system do you have over there? The rule appears to be anybody can blame anybody but themselves, you lot are truly pathetic.

Your responses just keep getting stupider and stupider.

I may get bored with you sooner than I thought.

What part of my reply confused you? A paying customer tells you to do something, despite you telling him it's dangerous. How the hell can that possibly be your fault? You have warned him of the dangers and he has accepted them.

--
Coffee (n.), the person upon whom one coughs.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 21:02:12 +0100, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 12:35:18 PM UTC-4, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 17:20:05 +0100, Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 4/1/2016 11:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/31/2016 9:50 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I've fired customers, on a couple occasions. One
was a guy who was verbally and orally abusive.
Other was a place that had a master key system.
The guy wanted me to use the master key chart that
earlier locksmith had written. I met the other
guy once, he was so proud of his computer program.
Anyhow, I could tell which keys worked each other
locks. Mentioned it, the customer found I was correct,
but "we'll just hope no one notices". I fired him
at that point.


There are plenty of reasons to fire a customer. Anyone demanding a
price break that is unreasonable for starter. Just walk away. We gave
up a million dollar account for that reason. One of our competitors
took the work though. Filed for Chapter 11 a year later.

I can't quote the source, some thing told me
in person. There is a plastic factory some
where in NYS, they got a low bid from Walmart,
to make a million or so items. The bid was so
low, they would not have stayed in business.
They declined, as I remember hearing told.

I originally said "never throw away a PAYING customer. Paying clearly means making you money. DOH!


As I said before, there are reasons to throw away a paying customer, even
if they are "making you money". BTDT

Steve pays me well. Steve treats me with respect. I'm happy to have Steve
as a client. I might even give Steve a discount.

Bob pays me well. Bob treats me like crap. Bye Bye Bob. I don't need Bob's
money badly enough to put up with his attitude.

Depends if you have a customer to replace Bob.

It's obvious that you don't mind being crapped on...you keep coming back here.

I enjoy correcting fools.

--
Saturday morning I got up early, quietly dressed, made my lunch, and slipped quietly into the garage. I hooked up the boat up to the van, and proceeded to back out into a torrential downpour. The wind was blowing 50 mph, so I pulled back into the garage, turned on the radio, and discovered that the weather would be bad all day. I went back into the house, quietly undressed, and slipped back into bed.. I cuddled up to my wife's back, now with a different anticipation, and whispered, "The weather out there is terrible."
My loving wife of 5 years replied, "And can you believe my stupid husband is out fishing in that?"
And that's how the fight started...

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 18:42:14 +0100, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:

On 3/31/2016 10:23 AM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 16:38:05 +0100, Colonel Edmund J. Burke
wrote:

On 3/31/2016 7:36 AM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:34:06 +0100, Colonel Edmund J. Burke
wrote:

On 3/31/2016 7:26 AM, Mr Macaw wrote:
These sound useful, ever used anything like this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181742384239

Over hear they are called Easy Outs.
I've used 'em in my many handymanish wanderings, so to speak.

Yes, easy out was the first term I heard, a brand name presumably.

Do they actually work?


Sir, pay no heed to these other "fantasy" handymen. I can assure you
they work just fine, but not alone, mind you. One must first create a
depression in the surface of that which is to be extracted, so that the
easy out can burrow deep within and take purchase.

Are you not meant to drill all the way in so the easy out isn't tapping
at all?


That's a BIG NEGATIVE on that one, good buddy. Just far enough in so
that yer easy out can grab a'hold.
Roger that?

That's not what everyone else says.

--
You may be a cunning linguist, but I am a master debater.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 18:31:32 +0100, TimR wrote:

On Thursday, March 31, 2016 at 2:36:37 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...

Now days I insist they put the lugs on loosely, and
I'll torque them myself. Some garages balk at that
idea, "your wheel will fall off".


Discount Tire where I got my last 2 sets of tires for the vehicles impressed
me. They have a large window where you can see the work being done. They
use impact wrenches to tighten the lug nuts, but for a final tighten they
use a torque wrench.

A final tighten, or a final check?

If they have the impact wrench set low enough, and then they add some torque with the torque wrench, seems to me that is the ideal way to do it.

But usually I see them put them on with the air tool and check with the torque wrench. That proves it had at least enough torque, but doesn't prove there isn't too much. You would have to loosen and retighten, and I've never seen that happen.

Here's a good article from an interesting site:
http://www.boltscience.com/pages/quality.htm

Surely the air tool can be set precisely?


--
A girl phoned me the other day and said, "Come on over, there's nobody home."
I went over. Nobody was home.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 17:44:10 +0100, Sum Ting Wong wrote:

On 4/1/2016 12:35 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


I originally said "never throw away a PAYING customer. Paying clearly means making you money. DOH!


Paying only means the customer pays the invoice.

Whether or not there is profit is another matter, you dumb Psittacidae. ;-)

That was implied you ****wit.

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I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 18:43:13 +0100, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:

On 3/31/2016 6:41 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 03/31/2016 08:36 AM, Mr Macaw wrote:
Yes, easy out was the first term I heard, a brand name presumably.

Do they actually work?


Yes. Of course if you manage to break the extractor off you're totally
screwed since they are hardened. Depending upon the location you might
learn about EDM and I don't mean dance music.

http://www.amazon.com/Alden-8430P-Gr.../dp/B000H6PM32

Those work extremely well. They really shine where you have a stripped
out Philips or Torx head. Deck screws in particular tend to be a bitch
to remove. You do need a healthy reversing drill motor.


How the **** you gonna use a bench drill on a gawddamned wall?

Who said to use a bench drill?

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The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners.