The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?
--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Sunday, February 7, 2016 at 10:56:07 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?
--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Twisted lines for what exactly? Around here twisted lines for
a service to a house are common. I would assume because it
keeps them together and neat. Twisted high voltage wires, that
I haven't seen.

On 02/07/2016 09:55 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?



Enough info here to get your answer


http://electronics.stackexchange.com...bution-systems

On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 10:02:42 -0600, trader_4 wrote:

On Sunday, February 7, 2016 at 10:56:07 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?
--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Twisted lines for what exactly? Around here twisted lines for
a service to a house are common. I would assume because it
keeps them together and neat. Twisted high voltage wires, that
I haven't seen.

The high voltage lines along the roads carrying power to farms.
I think those are about 7200 volts. I want to say only on three
phase but don't remember for sure. Why a twisted pair rather than
a larger single conductor?
The three phase is mostly for irrigation well motors and grain drying
fans. The well motors are mostly 480 vac. I don't know if the grain
dryers
are mainly 480 or 240v.
I've seen the transmission lines (115,000v or so) have twisted rods
wrapped
around them in about the middle of the spans. I guess that's to prevent
galloping in high winds.

--
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Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 10:02:42 -0600, trader_4 wrote:

On Sunday, February 7, 2016 at 10:56:07 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?
--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Twisted lines for what exactly? Around here twisted lines for
a service to a house are common. I would assume because it
keeps them together and neat. Twisted high voltage wires, that
I haven't seen.

The high voltage lines along the roads carrying power to farms.
I think those are about 7200 volts. I want to say only on three
phase but don't remember for sure. Why a twisted pair rather than
a larger single conductor?
The three phase is mostly for irrigation well motors and grain drying
fans. The well motors are mostly 480 vac. I don't know if the grain
dryers
are mainly 480 or 240v.
I've seen the transmission lines (115,000v or so) have twisted rods
wrapped
around them in about the middle of the spans. I guess that's to prevent
galloping in high winds.

IMO. that is to improve power factor. Just a hint.

On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 10:27:32 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:

On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 10:02:42 -0600, trader_4 wrote:

On Sunday, February 7, 2016 at 10:56:07 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?
--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Twisted lines for what exactly? Around here twisted lines for
a service to a house are common. I would assume because it
keeps them together and neat. Twisted high voltage wires, that
I haven't seen.

The high voltage lines along the roads carrying power to farms.
I think those are about 7200 volts. I want to say only on three
phase but don't remember for sure. Why a twisted pair rather than
a larger single conductor?
The three phase is mostly for irrigation well motors and grain drying
fans. The well motors are mostly 480 vac. I don't know if the grain
dryers
are mainly 480 or 240v.
I've seen the transmission lines (115,000v or so) have twisted rods
wrapped
around them in about the middle of the spans. I guess that's to prevent
galloping in high winds.


Overhead distribution and transmission conductors would usually be
ASCR aluminum-conductor-steel-reinforced. :
http://www.sale-cable.com/Bare-Condu...-BS-215-2.html

Vibration dampers are installed near the tower :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockbridge_damper

.... not sure what you're seeing mid-span ?
I've seen phase-spacers installed for anti-gallop.
John T.



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 09:55:59 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:


The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?
It's not "twisted pair" - it's "triplex" and yes it is stronger than
individual wires, and they can't whip and hit each other either. The
neutral "carier" is usually a twisted steel cable and if not steel is
high strength aluminum alloy

On 02/07/2016 12:08 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 09:55:59 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:


The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?
It's not "twisted pair" - it's "triplex" and yes it is stronger than
individual wires, and they can't whip and hit each other either. The
neutral "carier" is usually a twisted steel cable and if not steel is
high strength aluminum alloy

It _IS_ twisted pair, not triplex. These are transmission lines, not
service entrance.

See the links philo posted altho here's the link to Southwire's product
page--

http://www.southwire.com/transmission/vr2.htm

Not sure who's Dean's REC is; here's one near us (altho not us
specifically, they're just west). We started a number of years ago
after a massive ice event took almost 60% of our total transmission
lines down.

http://www.southwire.com/support/kansas-co-op-fights-ice-with-vr2.htm

--

On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 11:26:21 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 10:27:32 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:

Some cut.

The high voltage lines along the roads carrying power to farms.
I think those are about 7200 volts. I want to say only on three
phase but don't remember for sure. Why a twisted pair rather than
a larger single conductor?
The three phase is mostly for irrigation well motors and grain drying
fans. The well motors are mostly 480 vac. I don't know if the grain
dryers
are mainly 480 or 240v.
I've seen the transmission lines (115,000v or so) have twisted rods
wrapped
around them in about the middle of the spans. I guess that's to prevent
galloping in high winds.


Overhead distribution and transmission conductors would usually be
ASCR aluminum-conductor-steel-reinforced. :
http://www.sale-cable.com/Bare-Condu...-BS-215-2.html

Vibration dampers are installed near the tower :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockbridge_damper

... not sure what you're seeing mid-span ?
I've seen phase-spacers installed for anti-gallop.
John T.

My curiosity got the best of me so I went to snoop. Each span
had about five of these things curled around each of the individual cables.
They are white. Imagine an extended spring wrapped around the line. I
couldn't tell for sure if the cables were twisted pair or single line.
--
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On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 14:03:07 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 02/07/2016 12:08 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 09:55:59 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:


The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the
last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?
It's not "twisted pair" - it's "triplex" and yes it is stronger than
individual wires, and they can't whip and hit each other either. The
neutral "carier" is usually a twisted steel cable and if not steel is
high strength aluminum alloy

It _IS_ twisted pair, not triplex. These are transmission lines, not
service entrance.

See the links philo posted altho here's the link to Southwire's product
page--

http://www.southwire.com/transmission/vr2.htm

Not sure who's Dean's REC is; here's one near us (altho not us
specifically, they're just west). We started a number of years ago
after a massive ice event took almost 60% of our total transmission
lines down.

http://www.southwire.com/support/kansas-co-op-fights-ice-with-vr2.htm

I'm about 60 miles north of the Kansas border. The worst storm
for power outage was in the spring of 1976. There's a bit here
http://nlcs1.nlc.state.ne.us/docs/pi.../storm1976.pdf if anyone
is interested. Pictures of helicopters hauling assembled structures
included.


--
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On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 14:03:07 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 02/07/2016 12:08 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 09:55:59 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:


The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?
It's not "twisted pair" - it's "triplex" and yes it is stronger than
individual wires, and they can't whip and hit each other either. The
neutral "carier" is usually a twisted steel cable and if not steel is
high strength aluminum alloy

It _IS_ twisted pair, not triplex. These are transmission lines, not
service entrance.

See the links philo posted altho here's the link to Southwire's product
page--

http://www.southwire.com/transmission/vr2.htm

Not sure who's Dean's REC is; here's one near us (altho not us
specifically, they're just west). We started a number of years ago
after a massive ice event took almost 60% of our total transmission
lines down.

http://www.southwire.com/support/kansas-co-op-fights-ice-with-vr2.htm
Yes, I was thinkingservice entrance

The Vr2 "compound" cables are wind and vibration resistant - and when
it moves it dislodges ice a lot faster than round cable.

On 02/07/2016 3:28 PM, wrote:
....

The Vr2 "compound" cables are wind and vibration resistant - and when
it moves it dislodges ice a lot faster than round cable.


Not really...the gain is in the resistance to wind- and ice-"galloping"
that is the real stress-producer, not just the dead weight of the ice.

I don't know there's any study/data on actual ice-shedding, per se.
It's never been a topic from our REC engineers in choosing one product
vis a vis another for the purpose (and believe me, we've had a lot of
discussion and engineering input on the subject).

--

On 02/07/2016 3:18 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
....

I'm about 60 miles north of the Kansas border. The worst storm
for power outage was in the spring of 1976. There's a bit here
http://nlcs1.nlc.state.ne.us/docs/pi.../storm1976.pdf if anyone
is interested. Pictures of helicopters hauling assembled structures
included.

So you got hammered a week ago??? How far from Goodland, on north or
farther east/west? They're straight north of us 180 mi or so...

I forget which year it was our ice was so bad, but per typical SW KS it
also came w/ 50+ mph sustained wind, gusts to 70-80 mph estimated...

--

On 02/07/2016 4:51 PM, dpb wrote:
....

I forget which year it was our ice was so bad, but per typical SW KS it
also came w/ 50+ mph sustained wind, gusts to 70-80 mph estimated...

Oh, but it was since 2000 'cuz we came back to the farm in '99-'00 time
frame after Dad died...

--

On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 16:51:01 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 02/07/2016 3:18 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
...

I'm about 60 miles north of the Kansas border. The worst storm
for power outage was in the spring of 1976. There's a bit here
http://nlcs1.nlc.state.ne.us/docs/pi.../storm1976.pdf if anyone
is interested. Pictures of helicopters hauling assembled structures
included.

So you got hammered a week ago??? How far from Goodland, on north or
farther east/west? They're straight north of us 180 mi or so...

I forget which year it was our ice was so bad, but per typical SW KS it
also came w/ 50+ mph sustained wind, gusts to 70-80 mph estimated...


I'm north of Salina give or take. Grand Island got hit the worst
last week
with about eighteen inches of snow. We got about a foot.
The kids here got a couple days off from school. The local officials
had enough faith in the forecasts to announce the shutdowns ahead of time.
That storm back in '76 prompted the telephone companies to bury their
phone lines. A co worker from back then had a field day. Some of the
insulators were worth money.


--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 16:47:45 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 02/07/2016 3:28 PM, wrote:
...

The Vr2 "compound" cables are wind and vibration resistant - and when
it moves it dislodges ice a lot faster than round cable.


Not really...the gain is in the resistance to wind- and ice-"galloping"
that is the real stress-producer, not just the dead weight of the ice.

I don't know there's any study/data on actual ice-shedding, per se.
It's never been a topic from our REC engineers in choosing one product
vis a vis another for the purpose (and believe me, we've had a lot of
discussion and engineering input on the subject).
Any flexing causes motion between the conductors whch cracks the ice
loose

On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 10:09:16 -0600, philo wrote:

On 02/07/2016 09:55 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?



Enough info here to get your answer


http://electronics.stackexchange.com...bution-systems

Yeah, one question answered. I tried to find a picture of the rods
wrapped around the conductors but wasn't able to.
My news reader is acting weird. Your reply was a bit away from the others.
--
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On 02/07/2016 5:41 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
....


I'm north of Salina give or take. Grand Island got hit the worst last week
with about eighteen inches of snow. We got about a foot.
The kids here got a couple days off from school. The local officials
had enough faith in the forecasts to announce the shutdowns ahead of time.
That storm back in '76 prompted the telephone companies to bury their
phone lines. A co worker from back then had a field day. Some of the
insulators were worth money.

OK, you're "way back east" then... Ice is much more of an issue
there than typical out here...we've got a lot more wind, though, generally.

--

On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 14:03:07 -0600, dpb wrote:

We started a number of years ago
after a massive ice event took almost 60% of our total transmission
lines down.

OT, but just wanted, without any attempt to be sarcastic or nasty, to
ask when ice storm became ice event. I heard on the radio a few days
ago, bleeding event, as opposed to bleeding. Is the new occupation
of event planner the reason there are so many more events these days?

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 12:02:28 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 14:03:07 -0600, dpb wrote:

We started a number of years ago
after a massive ice event took almost 60% of our total transmission
lines down.

OT, but just wanted, without any attempt to be sarcastic or nasty, to
ask when ice storm became ice event. I heard on the radio a few days
ago, bleeding event, as opposed to bleeding. Is the new occupation
of event planner the reason there are so many more events these days?

It may be related to the description of an ice storm found he

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_storm

The first paragraph states:

"They are not violent storms, but instead commonly perceived as gentle
rains occurring at temperatures just below freezing."

If I look outside and see "gentle rains" I'm not going to say "Wow,
what a storm!" So why I should refer to the resulting coating of ice
as a "ice storm"?

Since an "event" is basically something that happens, an ice event, a snow
event, a bleeding event basically means that ice happened, snow happened
and bleeding happened.

What sucks is when they happen all at once. ;-)

On Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:02:28 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 14:03:07 -0600, dpb wrote:

We started a number of years ago
after a massive ice event took almost 60% of our total transmission
lines down.

OT, but just wanted, without any attempt to be sarcastic or nasty, to
ask when ice storm became ice event. I heard on the radio a few days
ago, bleeding event, as opposed to bleeding. Is the new occupation
of event planner the reason there are so many more events these days?

The media likes to exaggerate things. Apparently to get more people to
watch their coverage and thus increase their ratings. This seems to be
the name of the game lately.

Just recently they were predicting a major blizzard, with white-out
conditions, high winds, extreme drifting, and more..... They said to
stay off the roads. This was predicted to occur at a certain time.
The end result occurred 6 hours later than their predicted time. It
snowed, and was fairly heavy at times, but no where close to a
"white-out". It was windy and of course there was some drifting as a
result. I happened to be driving home at the time, and had no problem
driving. In the end, it was just a common winter snow storm, with some
wind and drifting. No biggie!

In the past, I have seen REAL Blizzards, as well as "white-outs", and
drifts so high you could not even walk thru them. I still recall getting
trapped on a storm like that, while driving and not only did I have to
park my car and wait over two hours for the storm to lighten, but also
had to turn around and head home, knowing I'd never get to my
destination. Then it took almost 3 hours to drive about 10 miles.

BIG DIFFERENCE !!!

Exaggeration seems to be the name of the game, when it comes to media
coverage these days. Just like last year there was a local house fire.
The news said "it burned to the ground". I saw the house the next day.
The entire house was still standing, roof intact, but noticable charred
siding from all the windows on one side of the house. "Burned to the
Ground" means NOTHING IS LEFT! There was an entire house still standing,
but with serious damage. (Since then, this house has been repaired. It
was resided, new windows, and I suppose the whole interior was gutted
and replaced). Obviously the structure remained sound, or they would
have demolished it....

On Mon, 08 Feb 2016 14:37:09 -0600, wrote:

On Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:02:28 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 14:03:07 -0600, dpb wrote:

We started a number of years ago
after a massive ice event took almost 60% of our total transmission
lines down.

OT, but just wanted, without any attempt to be sarcastic or nasty, to
ask when ice storm became ice event. I heard on the radio a few days
ago, bleeding event, as opposed to bleeding. Is the new occupation
of event planner the reason there are so many more events these days?

The media likes to exaggerate things. Apparently to get more people to
watch their coverage and thus increase their ratings. This seems to be
the name of the game lately.

Just recently they were predicting a major blizzard, with white-out
conditions, high winds, extreme drifting, and more..... They said to
stay off the roads. This was predicted to occur at a certain time.
The end result occurred 6 hours later than their predicted time. It
snowed, and was fairly heavy at times, but no where close to a
"white-out". It was windy and of course there was some drifting as a
result. I happened to be driving home at the time, and had no problem
driving. In the end, it was just a common winter snow storm, with some
wind and drifting. No biggie!

In the past, I have seen REAL Blizzards, as well as "white-outs", and
drifts so high you could not even walk thru them. I still recall getting
trapped on a storm like that, while driving and not only did I have to
park my car and wait over two hours for the storm to lighten, but also
had to turn around and head home, knowing I'd never get to my
destination. Then it took almost 3 hours to drive about 10 miles.

BIG DIFFERENCE !!!

Yes there is a big difference - BUT - they put out warnings on worst
case scenario so people don't end up in the situation you did. You'd
really be upset if they said there was a chance of light drifting snow
with moderate winds (what you got when the heavy storm was forcast)
and you ended up with the full-blown blizzard. It's a case of CYA

Exaggeration seems to be the name of the game, when it comes to media
coverage these days. Just like last year there was a local house fire.
The news said "it burned to the ground". I saw the house the next day.
The entire house was still standing, roof intact, but noticable charred
siding from all the windows on one side of the house. "Burned to the
Ground" means NOTHING IS LEFT! There was an entire house still standing,
but with serious damage. (Since then, this house has been repaired. It
was resided, new windows, and I suppose the whole interior was gutted
and replaced). Obviously the structure remained sound, or they would
have demolished it....

On 02/08/2016 03:24 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2016 14:37:09 -0600, wrote:

In the past, I have seen REAL Blizzards, as well as "white-outs", and
drifts so high you could not even walk thru them. I still recall getting
trapped on a storm like that, while driving and not only did I have to
park my car and wait over two hours for the storm to lighten, but also
had to turn around and head home, knowing I'd never get to my
destination. Then it took almost 3 hours to drive about 10 miles.

BIG DIFFERENCE !!!

Yes there is a big difference - BUT - they put out warnings on worst
case scenario so people don't end up in the situation you did. You'd
really be upset if they said there was a chance of light drifting snow
with moderate winds (what you got when the heavy storm was forcast)
and you ended up with the full-blown blizzard. It's a case of CYA

I used to rely on NOAA for my weather forcasts, but I consistently found
myself planning for rain when it never happened. Nowadays I still check
there (great source of satellite and dopplar imaging), but I find that
the spot predictions from weather underground suit my activities a lot
better, even breaking it down by hour as to when it is going to rain.

Jon

On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 09:55:59 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:


The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?

You know, I've seen this myself I think, and from the ground, I
thought the cables were different, one for electricity and one to keep
the cable up, like you suggest. But it seems maybe not.

It does keep them from picking up stray signals.

This is not about power lines specifically.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...0995.Cs.r.html

On 4/9/2016 5:41 PM, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 09:55:59 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:


The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?

You know, I've seen this myself I think, and from the ground, I
thought the cables were different, one for electricity and one to keep
the cable up, like you suggest. But it seems maybe not.

It does keep them from picking up stray signals.

This is not about power lines specifically.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...0995.Cs.r.html



Twisted pair balanced lines use two-phase (antiphase) signals to drive
transformers that have excellent common-mode impedance matching between
"legs" but do not provide assymmetric signals. Since these conductors
path from source to destination, any induced dereference is allowing
the inductance rejection of reactive noise. This leads to twisted,
braided co-jacketed cables when used in symmetric balanced signal
re-transmission.

On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 18:44:04 -0400, Dick wrote:

On 4/9/2016 5:41 PM, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 09:55:59 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:


The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?

You know, I've seen this myself I think, and from the ground, I
thought the cables were different, one for electricity and one to keep
the cable up, like you suggest. But it seems maybe not.

It does keep them from picking up stray signals.

This is not about power lines specifically.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...0995.Cs.r.html



Twisted pair balanced lines use two-phase (antiphase) signals to drive
transformers that have excellent common-mode impedance matching between
"legs" but do not provide assymmetric signals. Since these conductors
path from source to destination, any induced dereference is allowing
the inductance rejection of reactive noise. This leads to twisted,
braided co-jacketed cables when used in symmetric balanced signal
re-transmission.
When it comes to power lines, the twisting has NOTHING to do with
signals. The "Arial triplex" or "arial quadriplex"cable is a means of
keeping the wires from flapping against themselves in the wind and
from sagging.

It is "officially" called ACSR - for" Aluminum Cable Steel Reinforced"
Generally one of the cables is bare and acts as the Neutral as well as
the main suspension cable..

Secondary distribution cable is generally all aluminum instead of
steel reinforced - this runs from the transformer or pole to the
electrical service of the building at "user voltage" while the steel
core is primary distribution cable at higher voltage (generally
speaking) In rural applications the steel re-inforced cable is often
used from the transformer at the road in to the central distribution
pole of, for instance, a farm - at "user voltage"

On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 16:41:50 -0500, Micky wrote:

On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 09:55:59 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:


The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?

You know, I've seen this myself I think, and from the ground, I
thought the cables were different, one for electricity and one to keep
the cable up, like you suggest. But it seems maybe not.

It does keep them from picking up stray signals.

This is not about power lines specifically.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...0995.Cs.r.html

Naw. This is close to what I was talking about.
http://tinyurl.com/hj9dofs
One of the wires is ground, the other three current carrying. I think
the hot lines are usually at 7200 volts. Each one of those four would be
a twisted pair. Both of the twisted pair have voltage.
Power for a building site would be supplied by a single transformer
taking power from one of those lines. That would be the typical 240/120
city folk see. Three phase for irrigation would have three transformers
usually supplying 480 volts.
Philo and dpb answered my question.



--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:30:54 -0500, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:

On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 16:41:50 -0500, Micky wrote:

On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 09:55:59 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:


The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?

You know, I've seen this myself I think, and from the ground, I
thought the cables were different, one for electricity and one to keep
the cable up, like you suggest. But it seems maybe not.

It does keep them from picking up stray signals.

This is not about power lines specifically.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...0995.Cs.r.html

Naw. This is close to what I was talking about.
http://tinyurl.com/hj9dofs
One of the wires is ground, the other three current carrying. I think
the hot lines are usually at 7200 volts. Each one of those four would be
a twisted pair. Both of the twisted pair have voltage.
Power for a building site would be supplied by a single transformer
taking power from one of those lines. That would be the typical 240/120
city folk see. Three phase for irrigation would have three transformers
usually supplying 480 volts.
Philo and dpb answered my question.

7200 volts is medium voltage and would not be used for anything but
the most local distribution. We have 13kv to ground here for the local
distribution and the main trunks going between towns is 48kv or 250kv

The wires on my street
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/transformer.jpg

Those wires you see on the big structures out in the country are at
least 48kv and might be closer to a million.

On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 19:07:01 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 18:44:04 -0400, Dick wrote:

On 4/9/2016 5:41 PM, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 07 Feb 2016 09:55:59 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:


The local REAs have been putting in twisted pair lines in the last
few years.
Does that help keep them from going down in ice storms?

You know, I've seen this myself I think, and from the ground, I
thought the cables were different, one for electricity and one to keep
the cable up, like you suggest. But it seems maybe not.

It does keep them from picking up stray signals.

This is not about power lines specifically.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...0995.Cs.r.html



Twisted pair balanced lines use two-phase (antiphase) signals to drive
transformers that have excellent common-mode impedance matching between
"legs" but do not provide assymmetric signals. Since these conductors
path from source to destination, any induced dereference is allowing
the inductance rejection of reactive noise. This leads to twisted,
braided co-jacketed cables when used in symmetric balanced signal
re-transmission.
When it comes to power lines, the twisting has NOTHING to do with
signals. The "Arial triplex" or "arial quadriplex"cable is a means of
keeping the wires from flapping against themselves in the wind and
from sagging.

It is "officially" called ACSR - for" Aluminum Cable Steel Reinforced"
Generally one of the cables is bare and acts as the Neutral as well as
the main suspension cable..

Secondary distribution cable is generally all aluminum instead of
steel reinforced - this runs from the transformer or pole to the
electrical service of the building at "user voltage" while the steel
core is primary distribution cable at higher voltage (generally
speaking) In rural applications the steel re-inforced cable is often
used from the transformer at the road in to the central distribution
pole of, for instance, a farm - at "user voltage"

They do twist long distance power lines to cut down on radiating power
but it is on the order of about once a mile. Still a fraction of a
wave length at 60 hz. There is a twist on ther 250kv line behind my
house about a quarter of a mile away. I may have a picture but it is
not on my web site so I can't link it right now.

They do twist long distance power lines to cut down on radiating power
but it is on the order of about once a mile. Still a fraction of a
wave length at 60 hz. There is a twist on ther 250kv line behind my
house about a quarter of a mile away. I may have a picture but it is
not on my web site so I can't link it right now.



Transposing the three phases perhaps ? rather that twisting

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/power...-mike-hennesey

John T.

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 07:22:12 -0400, wrote:



They do twist long distance power lines to cut down on radiating power
but it is on the order of about once a mile. Still a fraction of a
wave length at 60 hz. There is a twist on ther 250kv line behind my
house about a quarter of a mile away. I may have a picture but it is
not on my web site so I can't link it right now.



Transposing the three phases perhaps ? rather that twisting

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/power...-mike-hennesey

John T.


That is exactly what we are talking about but when you look at the
line, it looks like a twist is going on.