A couple days ago, I got called to a friend's
house to troubleshoot a four outlet wall
socket, which wasn't operating plug in devices.
My three bulb tester said B-N was barely there,
neon bulb was flickering. B-G was not powered,
and of course N had no power, so N-G was show
no neon bulb light.

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

I'm going back to work on it in a couple days,
will post follow up.

BTW, I'm not being racist when I say that N had
no power, and N-G is open.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 8:03:04 AM UTC-6, Stormin Mormon wrote:
A couple days ago, I got called to a friend's
house to troubleshoot a four outlet wall
socket, which wasn't operating plug in devices.
My three bulb tester said B-N was barely there,
neon bulb was flickering. B-G was not powered,
and of course N had no power, so N-G was show
no neon bulb light.

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

I'm going back to work on it in a couple days,
will post follow up.


OT would help...considering this is mindless blogging!

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 9:03:04 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
A couple days ago, I got called to a friend's
house to troubleshoot a four outlet wall
socket, which wasn't operating plug in devices.
My three bulb tester said B-N was barely there,
neon bulb was flickering. B-G was not powered,
and of course N had no power, so N-G was show
no neon bulb light.

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?


Technician error? WTF is B-N, B-G, etc? B?
There are hot, neutral and ground. Never seen a tester
with B on it.

On 1/28/2016 9:14 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 9:03:04 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
A couple days ago, I got called to a friend's
house to troubleshoot a four outlet wall
socket, which wasn't operating plug in devices.
My three bulb tester said B-N was barely there,
neon bulb was flickering. B-G was not powered,
and of course N had no power, so N-G was show
no neon bulb light.

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?


Technician error? WTF is B-N, B-G, etc? B?
There are hot, neutral and ground. Never seen a tester
with B on it.

B = black
N = neutral
G = Gnd

Mine does. In black Sharpie.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 10:26:48 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 1/28/2016 9:14 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 9:03:04 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
A couple days ago, I got called to a friend's
house to troubleshoot a four outlet wall
socket, which wasn't operating plug in devices.
My three bulb tester said B-N was barely there,
neon bulb was flickering. B-G was not powered,
and of course N had no power, so N-G was show
no neon bulb light.

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?


Technician error? WTF is B-N, B-G, etc? B?
There are hot, neutral and ground. Never seen a tester
with B on it.

B = black
N = neutral
G = Gnd

Mine does. In black Sharpie.

--


Then why isn't it Black, White, Green?

Stormin Mormon writes:

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

14-2? Generally receptacles are wired to a 20A
breaker. 14-2 has an ampacity of 15A (or less
depending on fill ratio).

Guess: Backstabs were used

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:02:59 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

A couple days ago, I got called to a friend's
house to troubleshoot a four outlet wall
socket, which wasn't operating plug in devices.
My three bulb tester said B-N was barely there,
neon bulb was flickering. B-G was not powered,
and of course N had no power, so N-G was show
no neon bulb light.

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

I'm going back to work on it in a couple days,
will post follow up.

BTW, I'm not being racist when I say that N had
no power, and N-G is open.

Orange is 10 ga

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:41:28 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Stormin Mormon writes:

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

14-2? Generally receptacles are wired to a 20A
breaker. 14-2 has an ampacity of 15A (or less
depending on fill ratio).

Guess: Backstabs were used

General lighting receptacles in dwellings are usually 15a. You have
20s in kitchens, laundry and bathrooms.
Homeowners may wire 20s everywhere but builders usually do not.
You just have to look at the balance if 15 to 20 amp breakers in the
panel to see that.

BTW if he backstabbed 10 ga wire (orange romex) into a receptacle he
probably needed to drill out the hole. They are designed to only take
14ga wire. I have seen 12 ga jammed in there but they really had to
work to do it. (speaking about the spring capture back stabber, not
the spec grade where you tighten the screw)

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:41:28 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Stormin Mormon writes:

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

14-2? Generally receptacles are wired to a 20A
breaker. 14-2 has an ampacity of 15A (or less
depending on fill ratio).

Guess: Backstabs were used
Being one of Story's friends more likelu back-clamp outlets and they
didn't take the insulation off the wires.

And 15 amp circuits for 15 amp outlets are still VERY common.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 10:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:02:59 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

A couple days ago, I got called to a friend's
house to troubleshoot a four outlet wall
socket, which wasn't operating plug in devices.
My three bulb tester said B-N was barely there,
neon bulb was flickering. B-G was not powered,
and of course N had no power, so N-G was show
no neon bulb light.

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

I'm going back to work on it in a couple days,
will post follow up.

BTW, I'm not being racist when I say that N had
no power, and N-G is open.

Orange is 10 ga
Not always. There is still no mandated standard for cable sheath
colours.

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 11:43:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:41:28 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Stormin Mormon writes:

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

14-2? Generally receptacles are wired to a 20A
breaker. 14-2 has an ampacity of 15A (or less
depending on fill ratio).

Guess: Backstabs were used

General lighting receptacles in dwellings are usually 15a. You have
20s in kitchens, laundry and bathrooms.
Homeowners may wire 20s everywhere but builders usually do not.
You just have to look at the balance if 15 to 20 amp breakers in the
panel to see that.



+1

Most of the breakers here are 15A, maybe 20% are 20A.

trader_4 writes:
On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 11:43:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:41:28 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Stormin Mormon writes:

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

14-2? Generally receptacles are wired to a 20A
breaker. 14-2 has an ampacity of 15A (or less
depending on fill ratio).

Guess: Backstabs were used

General lighting receptacles in dwellings are usually 15a. You have
20s in kitchens, laundry and bathrooms.
Homeowners may wire 20s everywhere but builders usually do not.
You just have to look at the balance if 15 to 20 amp breakers in the
panel to see that.



+1

Most of the breakers here are 15A, maybe 20% are 20A.

Whereas here, everything except the two lighting circuits
are 20A. That was true in the upper midwest when I worked
for a electrical supply wholesaler in the 70's as well.

On 1/28/2016 10:30 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 10:26:48 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 1/28/2016 9:14 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Technician error? WTF is B-N, B-G, etc? B?
There are hot, neutral and ground. Never seen a tester
with B on it.

B = black
N = neutral
G = Gnd

Mine does. In black Sharpie.

--


Then why isn't it Black, White, Green?

Cause that's not what I was thinking at
that moment.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:18:27 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 10:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:02:59 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

A couple days ago, I got called to a friend's
house to troubleshoot a four outlet wall
socket, which wasn't operating plug in devices.
My three bulb tester said B-N was barely there,
neon bulb was flickering. B-G was not powered,
and of course N had no power, so N-G was show
no neon bulb light.

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

I'm going back to work on it in a couple days,
will post follow up.

BTW, I'm not being racist when I say that N had
no power, and N-G is open.

Orange is 10 ga
Not always. There is still no mandated standard for cable sheath
colours.

I have seen lots of romex and I have never seen orange that was
anything but 10 gauge. There is white, blue and black romex out there
over the years that can be any size.
When Southwire came out with yellow and orange, it became the defacto
industry standard.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:48:08 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

trader_4 writes:
On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 11:43:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:41:28 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Stormin Mormon writes:

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

14-2? Generally receptacles are wired to a 20A
breaker. 14-2 has an ampacity of 15A (or less
depending on fill ratio).

Guess: Backstabs were used

General lighting receptacles in dwellings are usually 15a. You have
20s in kitchens, laundry and bathrooms.
Homeowners may wire 20s everywhere but builders usually do not.
You just have to look at the balance if 15 to 20 amp breakers in the
panel to see that.



+1

Most of the breakers here are 15A, maybe 20% are 20A.

Whereas here, everything except the two lighting circuits
are 20A. That was true in the upper midwest when I worked
for a electrical supply wholesaler in the 70's as well.

That sounds like poor design. Using 20a circuits does allow the
installer to use fewer circuits to achieve the 3va per sq/ft but fewer
is not better when the breaker trips. There is no requirement that
fixed lighting and receptacles be on separate circuits and a single 20
might cover one whole end of a house if the installer was being
stingy. (800 square feet) The only time I ever saw that was when the
AFCIs first started showing up (2002 cycle) and installers tried to
put everything in all of the bedrooms on one AFCI.
We couldn't tag it but if the guy was cutting corners this badly,
there was always something else wrong. It just made us look harder.

On 1/28/2016 8:02 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
A couple days ago, I got called to a friend's
house to troubleshoot a four outlet wall
socket, which wasn't operating plug in devices.
My three bulb tester said B-N was barely there,
neon bulb was flickering. B-G was not powered,
and of course N had no power, so N-G was show
no neon bulb light.

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

I'm going back to work on it in a couple days,
will post follow up.

BTW, I'm not being racist when I say that N had
no power, and N-G is open.

Bubba hung his new 65 inch TeeVee on the wall using 16 penny nails and
hit a wire?

wrote in message
...
That sounds like poor design. Using 20a circuits does allow the
installer to use fewer circuits to achieve the 3va per sq/ft but fewer
is not better when the breaker trips. There is no requirement that
fixed lighting and receptacles be on separate circuits and a single 20
might cover one whole end of a house if the installer was being
stingy. (800 square feet) The only time I ever saw that was when the
AFCIs first started showing up (2002 cycle) and installers tried to
put everything in all of the bedrooms on one AFCI.
We couldn't tag it but if the guy was cutting corners this badly,
there was always something else wrong. It just made us look harder.

Sounds like the wiring in a duplex apartment I was renting. It was built
just before WW2. In each side was a fuse box with 2 20 amp fuses. That was
for the lights and recepticals. There was a living room, 2 bed rooms,
kitchen and bath. There was a seperate fuse pair for the stove and water
heater.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 1/28/2016 9:14 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 9:03:04 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
A couple days ago, I got called to a friend's
house to troubleshoot a four outlet wall
socket, which wasn't operating plug in devices.
My three bulb tester said B-N was barely there,
neon bulb was flickering. B-G was not powered,
and of course N had no power, so N-G was show
no neon bulb light.

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?


Technician error? WTF is B-N, B-G, etc? B?
There are hot, neutral and ground. Never seen a tester
with B on it.

B = black
N = neutral
G = Gnd

Mine does. In black Sharpie.

Why not Black, White, Green or Copper

On 1/28/2016 1:17 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:18:27 -0500, wrote:
Orange is 10 ga
Not always. There is still no mandated standard for cable sheath
colours.

I have seen lots of romex and I have never seen orange that was
anything but 10 gauge. There is white, blue and black romex out there
over the years that can be any size.
When Southwire came out with yellow and orange, it became the defacto
industry standard.


My color vision is very poor. More likely
yellow, and reasonably sure it's 14 ga.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:22:39 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/28/2016 1:17 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:18:27 -0500, wrote:
Orange is 10 ga
Not always. There is still no mandated standard for cable sheath
colours.

I have seen lots of romex and I have never seen orange that was
anything but 10 gauge. There is white, blue and black romex out there
over the years that can be any size.
When Southwire came out with yellow and orange, it became the defacto
industry standard.


My color vision is very poor. More likely
yellow, and reasonably sure it's 14 ga.

Look at the writing on it.

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 2:22:49 PM UTC-6, Stormin Mormon wrote:

My color vision is very poor. More likely
yellow, and reasonably sure it's 14 ga.

Fat, bald, color-blind, left-handed, single, Mormon, lived in a trailer...no wonder your dead! ٩(×̯×)۶

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:48:08 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

trader_4 writes:
On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 11:43:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:41:28 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Stormin Mormon writes:

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

14-2? Generally receptacles are wired to a 20A
breaker. 14-2 has an ampacity of 15A (or less
depending on fill ratio).

Guess: Backstabs were used

General lighting receptacles in dwellings are usually 15a. You have
20s in kitchens, laundry and bathrooms.
Homeowners may wire 20s everywhere but builders usually do not.
You just have to look at the balance if 15 to 20 amp breakers in the
panel to see that.



+1

Most of the breakers here are 15A, maybe 20% are 20A.

Whereas here, everything except the two lighting circuits
are 20A. That was true in the upper midwest when I worked
for a electrical supply wholesaler in the 70's as well.
So all of the outlets are the 20 amp type??? 15 amp outlets on 20 amp
breaker doesn't meet code.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 13:17:25 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:18:27 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 10:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:02:59 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

A couple days ago, I got called to a friend's
house to troubleshoot a four outlet wall
socket, which wasn't operating plug in devices.
My three bulb tester said B-N was barely there,
neon bulb was flickering. B-G was not powered,
and of course N had no power, so N-G was show
no neon bulb light.

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

I'm going back to work on it in a couple days,
will post follow up.

BTW, I'm not being racist when I say that N had
no power, and N-G is open.

Orange is 10 ga
Not always. There is still no mandated standard for cable sheath
colours.

I have seen lots of romex and I have never seen orange that was
anything but 10 gauge. There is white, blue and black romex out there
over the years that can be any size.
When Southwire came out with yellow and orange, it became the defacto
industry standard.
But Southwire doesn't make ALL the wire used in North America
There was orange jacketed cloth covered Romex 40 or more years ago. It
was 14 guage IIRC - definitely no more than 12 guage - and it was used
for baseboard electric heaters. On a 240 circuit it was good for 3500
watts of heat on a 15 amp breaker - generally used on 3000 watt (2
1500 watt units)

If it was 12 guage it was good for 4500 watts - or 3 units.

I know it wasn't "10 because I pulled several hundred feet of it.
Thinking back - likely closer to 45 years ago - when I worked some
with my dad - an electrician.

The plastic stuff is likely more standardized

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 14:46:30 -0800 (PST), bob_villain
wrote:

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 2:22:49 PM UTC-6, Stormin Mormon wrote:

My color vision is very poor. More likely
yellow, and reasonably sure it's 14 ga.

Fat, bald, color-blind, left-handed, single, Mormon, lived in a trailer...no wonder your dead! ?(×?×)?
Not dead. Undead. Zombie

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 6:34:34 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 14:46:30 -0800 (PST), bob_villain
wrote:

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 2:22:49 PM UTC-6, Stormin Mormon wrote:

My color vision is very poor. More likely
yellow, and reasonably sure it's 14 ga.

Fat, bald, color-blind, left-handed, single, Mormon, lived in a trailer....no wonder your dead! ?(в?в)?
Not dead. Undead. Zombie

Oh Yea! That's what he used the electricity for! Reanimation! Franken Mormon! o_O

[8~{} Uncle Animated Monster

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 18:06:56 -0500, wrote:

So all of the outlets are the 20 amp type??? 15 amp outlets on 20 amp
breaker doesn't meet code.


Maybe in Canada but not in the US unless it is a single receptacle
with no other outlets.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 18:54:31 -0500, wrote:

When Southwire came out with yellow and orange, it became the defacto
industry standard.
But Southwire doesn't make ALL the wire used in North America

Perhaps you missed the "defacto industry standard" part.
Find me someone who has made orange 14 gauge romex since the
Eisenhower administration. (about the time plastic NM cable appeared)
Most of the paper asphalt NM was silver but it might have had red or
orange writing on it.

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 11:43:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:41:28 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Stormin Mormon writes:

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

14-2? Generally receptacles are wired to a 20A
breaker. 14-2 has an ampacity of 15A (or less
depending on fill ratio).

Guess: Backstabs were used

General lighting receptacles in dwellings are usually 15a. You have
20s in kitchens, laundry and bathrooms.
Homeowners may wire 20s everywhere but builders usually do not.
You just have to look at the balance if 15 to 20 amp breakers in the
panel to see that.

BTW if he backstabbed 10 ga wire (orange romex) into a receptacle he
probably needed to drill out the hole. They are designed to only take
14ga wire. I have seen 12 ga jammed in there but they really had to
work to do it. (speaking about the spring capture back stabber, not
the spec grade where you tighten the screw)

Doesn't it suck that we have to keep qualifying all mentions of "backstab"
receptacles?

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 9:03:04 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
A couple days ago, I got called to a friend's
house to troubleshoot a four outlet wall
socket, which wasn't operating plug in devices.
My three bulb tester said B-N was barely there,
neon bulb was flickering. B-G was not powered,
and of course N had no power, so N-G was show
no neon bulb light.

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

I'm going back to work on it in a couple days,
will post follow up.

BTW, I'm not being racist when I say that N had
no power, and N-G is open.

--

This reminds of the wonderful story you told about the Harbor Freight
employee and your "humorous" use of the N-word.

Once again, you bring race into situations that have nothing whatsoever
to do with race and then you claim that you are not a racist.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 19:51:20 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 18:54:31 -0500, wrote:

When Southwire came out with yellow and orange, it became the defacto
industry standard.
But Southwire doesn't make ALL the wire used in North America

Perhaps you missed the "defacto industry standard" part.
Find me someone who has made orange 14 gauge romex since the
Eisenhower administration. (about the time plastic NM cable appeared)
Most of the paper asphalt NM was silver but it might have had red or
orange writing on it.
Up here it was brown, black, orange, and occaisionally silver.
Our early plastic stuff was black, white, brown, or orange.

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message

B = black
N = neutral
G = Gnd
Mine does. In black Sharpie.

Why not Black, White, Green or Copper

Why not call them what they are? It's scary that there's no realization
that wire labeling scheme is dangerous: Hot, Neutral and Ground are the
proper terms. Labeling one as "black" is bound to lead to confusion because
electricians sometimes mark white wires with
with black tape in 3 or 4 way switch setups, etc.

--
Bobby G.

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 6:07:02 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:48:08 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

trader_4 writes:
On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 11:43:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2016 15:41:28 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Stormin Mormon writes:

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

14-2? Generally receptacles are wired to a 20A
breaker. 14-2 has an ampacity of 15A (or less
depending on fill ratio).

Guess: Backstabs were used

General lighting receptacles in dwellings are usually 15a. You have
20s in kitchens, laundry and bathrooms.
Homeowners may wire 20s everywhere but builders usually do not.
You just have to look at the balance if 15 to 20 amp breakers in the
panel to see that.



+1

Most of the breakers here are 15A, maybe 20% are 20A.

Whereas here, everything except the two lighting circuits
are 20A. That was true in the upper midwest when I worked
for a electrical supply wholesaler in the 70's as well.
So all of the outlets are the 20 amp type??? 15 amp outlets on 20 amp
breaker doesn't meet code.

Wrong again. 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit are permitted,
in US NEC.

On 1/28/2016 10:41 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Stormin Mormon writes:

New socket (recently put in) with orange 14 ga
romex. Circuit panel was fairly new, and this
circuit was supplied with new orange 14-2 Romex.
I think I found the problem. Anyone want to guess
what it was?

14-2? Generally receptacles are wired to a 20A
breaker. 14-2 has an ampacity of 15A (or less
depending on fill ratio).

Guess: Backstabs were used


Ah, well. So the last guy used the wrong wire gage.

What I found was in between the socket romex and
the romex at the panel is about 40 feet of metal
pipe, with two conductors which are probably cloth
wrap. Certainly, they are ancient. The metal pipe
acts as the ground. Not very efffectively so.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 1/28/2016 11:43 AM, wrote:

General lighting receptacles in dwellings are usually 15a. You have
20s in kitchens, laundry and bathrooms.
Homeowners may wire 20s everywhere but builders usually do not.
You just have to look at the balance if 15 to 20 amp breakers in the
panel to see that.

BTW if he backstabbed 10 ga wire (orange romex) into a receptacle he
probably needed to drill out the hole. They are designed to only take
14ga wire. I have seen 12 ga jammed in there but they really had to
work to do it. (speaking about the spring capture back stabber, not
the spec grade where you tighten the screw)


I've not looked at the backs of the socket. Who knows? May
very well be backstabbed. I hope not, those are a PIA to
release the wire.
--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 1/28/2016 1:34 PM, My 2 Cents wrote:
On 1/28/2016 8:02 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'm going back to work on it in a couple days,
will post follow up.


Bubba hung his new 65 inch TeeVee on the wall using 16 penny nails and
hit a wire?

They do have a large flat, but it's plugged into
outlet strip, then to the outlet. The large flat
sits on a piece of furniture.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 1/28/2016 7:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 11:43:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
BTW if he backstabbed 10 ga wire (orange romex) into a receptacle he
probably needed to drill out the hole. They are designed to only take
14ga wire. I have seen 12 ga jammed in there but they really had to
work to do it. (speaking about the spring capture back stabber, not
the spec grade where you tighten the screw)

Doesn't it suck that we have to keep qualifying all mentions of "backstab"
receptacles?


There's back stab, and back clamp.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 1/28/2016 8:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 9:03:04 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
BTW, I'm not being racist when I say that N had
no power, and N-G is open.

--

This reminds of the wonderful story you told about the Harbor Freight
employee and your "humorous" use of the N-word.

Once again, you bring race into situations that have nothing whatsoever
to do with race and then you claim that you are not a racist.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

I do not protest too much! That's a false
accusation, and I want you to take it back!
You're too sensetive. Might that indicate
you have some hidden guilt?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

Stormin Mormon writes:
On 1/28/2016 11:43 AM, wrote:

General lighting receptacles in dwellings are usually 15a. You have
20s in kitchens, laundry and bathrooms.
Homeowners may wire 20s everywhere but builders usually do not.
You just have to look at the balance if 15 to 20 amp breakers in the
panel to see that.

BTW if he backstabbed 10 ga wire (orange romex) into a receptacle he
probably needed to drill out the hole. They are designed to only take
14ga wire. I have seen 12 ga jammed in there but they really had to
work to do it. (speaking about the spring capture back stabber, not
the spec grade where you tighten the screw)


I've not looked at the backs of the socket. Who knows? May
very well be backstabbed. I hope not, those are a PIA to
release the wire.

You don't have a wire cutters? Cut them, discard the cheap
receptacle and replace it with spec-grade.

On 1/29/2016 11:00 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Stormin Mormon writes:

I've not looked at the backs of the socket. Who knows? May
very well be backstabbed. I hope not, those are a PIA to
release the wire.

You don't have a wire cutters? Cut them, discard the cheap
receptacle and replace it with spec-grade.


Might work, if there is enough wire in the wall.
At present, looks like I'll be taking out some
steel pipe section of wire, and put in new Romex,
so I should have some wire to work with.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 8:36:12 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 1/28/2016 8:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 9:03:04 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
BTW, I'm not being racist when I say that N had
no power, and N-G is open.

--

This reminds of the wonderful story you told about the Harbor Freight
employee and your "humorous" use of the N-word.

Once again, you bring race into situations that have nothing whatsoever
to do with race and then you claim that you are not a racist.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

I do not protest too much! That's a false
accusation, and I want you to take it back!

We all want something. We don't always get what we want.

You're too sensetive. Might that indicate
you have some hidden guilt?

Nope...I'm not the one that keeps bringing race into situations
where no one but you would have thought of it.

When I hear "BTW, I'm not being racist..." my first thought
is always "No one thought you were...until you said that."