On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 8:30:05 PM UTC-6, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 8:04:45 PM UTC-6, wrote:

My saying an undersized fead and inballanced load could cause it would
only be because the neutral was overloaded by the inballance. With a
properly balanced load the neutral carries NO current.

I think you have a hybrid word "imbalance" and "unbalance"? (or I'm not competent in Canadienese) (à²*_ృ)

I think I'd be able to track the problem down quickly if I came across something like it here and was in operating condition. It's frustrates the heck out of me to have to tell friends and old customers that I can hardly get out of bed and can't come to their aid. The widow of my late friend GB called me the other day because of a problem with a porch light. It's hard to remotely diagnose an electrical problem when it's something unusual. I hope the OP gets it repaired and can let everyone know what caused the problem. Inquiring minds want to know. ”Œ( à²*_à²*)”˜

[8~{} Uncle Unbalanced Monster

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 8:08:45 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 13:25:06 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 2:34:07 PM UTC-6, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 3:16:02 PM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming from the power company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral connection in
the meter base could be a problem if it's loose.

I believe from the tests he performed the problem was isolated to be
between the subpanel and the main panel, not between the main panel
and the utility. He had normal voltages at the main panel.

I didn't see that post but it makes perfect sense. I'd also wonder if he was using a breaker as a switch to feed his out building. If the breaker isn't switch rated, one of the contacts could have burned. I've been able to track down problems like that with one of my infrared thermometers and my ultrasonic leak detector which allowed me to hear the sizzling contacts. In the late 1980's I was working for an electrical contracting group that had gotten into a new field of service for business and industry where we used thermal imaging cameras to check all of their electrical panels. Bad connections and defective breakers showed up very quickly. A problem I've seen more than once is caused by using a circuit breaker as a switch when it is't rated for that kind of service. Voltage drop across breaker contacts would be one of the first things I'd check for when there's an imbalance and no obvious indications of loose connections exist. Anyway, It's been quite a while since I've done any
field work. ?(€¢?€¢)?

[8~{} Uncle Lazy Monster
All of your points have validity - but when one side os HIGHER than
1/2 the line to line voltage, it is NOT a voltage drop on the line
contactor, breaker, or power bus. It is a neutral problem. Period.

If one side line to neutral is half of line to line, and the other
side is less than half line to line, your bad breaker scenario could
well be the cause.

In this case he has no net voltage drop.

It's dang frustrating to be unable to put hands on it because I'm curious about what's causing his problem. Perhaps a microscopic black hole dropped by and is sucking up the electrons? He's got to post pictures of what was causing his predicament. ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Holy Monster

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 18:29:58 -0800 (PST), bob_villain
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 8:04:45 PM UTC-6, wrote:

My saying an undersized fead and inballanced load could cause it would
only be because the neutral was overloaded by the inballance. With a
properly balanced load the neutral carries NO current.

I think you have a hybrid word "imbalance" and "unbalance"? (or I'm not competent in Canadienese) (?_?)
Yea, it should have been spelled Imbalance. I used to be a very good
speller in my younger days - last one standing in spelling bees, but
there are more words now, and I've let my spelling slip - and
generally don't use spell-check.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 10:45:53 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 18:29:58 -0800 (PST), bob_villain
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 8:04:45 PM UTC-6, wrote:

My saying an undersized fead and inballanced load could cause it would
only be because the neutral was overloaded by the inballance. With a
properly balanced load the neutral carries NO current.

I think you have a hybrid word "imbalance" and "unbalance"? (or I'm not competent in Canadienese) (?_?)
Yea, it should have been spelled Imbalance. I used to be a very good
speller in my younger days - last one standing in spelling bees, but
there are more words now, and I've let my spelling slip - and
generally don't use spell-check.

Don't worry, it's premature postification and it happens to all guys sometimes. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Accidental Monster

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 23:45:50 -0500, wrote:

Yea, it should have been spelled Imbalance. I used to be a very good
speller in my younger days - last one standing in spelling bees, but
there are more words now, and I've let my spelling slip - and
generally don't use spell-check.

There are a lot less words now if you listen to that garbage Rap Music
the kids listen to these days. They can write an entire 5 minute song
using only 3 or 4 vulgar words!

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:04:45 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 12:15:58 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming from the power company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose. There are all kinds of things that can cause an imbalance which is why, in another post, I wondered if the problem had just suddenly appeared after everything had been normal from the start. If the OP has inspected the neutral connections everywhere he can get to and believes it's a bad neutral connection then he should cut the seal off the meter, pull the meter and check the connections there. So if his neutral connections are good all the way through to the meter base, what should he do next if he doesn't have pole climbing gear? Of course he should contact his power company and inform them that he cut the seal off the meter socket and the reason why. If it's one of the newer remote reading meters, the power company will know anyway but it's best to inform the utility. ?.?

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster
My saying an undersized fead and inballanced load could cause it would
only be because the neutral was overloaded by the inballance. With a
properly balanced load the neutral carries NO current.

Perfectly balanced would be a better term, which of course isn't possible
unless all the loads are fixed. In a shop like he has, like almost anywhere
else, the loads are never going to be perfectly balanced. The problem isn't
the balancing, the problem is he has a bad neutral connection.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:04:45 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 12:15:58 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming from the power company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose. There are all kinds of things that can cause an imbalance which is why, in another post, I wondered if the problem had just suddenly appeared after everything had been normal from the start. If the OP has inspected the neutral connections everywhere he can get to and believes it's a bad neutral connection then he should cut the seal off the meter, pull the meter and check the connections there. So if his neutral connections are good all the way through to the meter base, what should he do next if he doesn't have pole climbing gear? Of course he should contact his power company and inform them that he cut the seal off the meter socket and the reason why. If it's one of the newer remote reading meters, the power company will know anyway but it's best to inform the utility. ?.?

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster
My saying an undersized fead and inballanced load could cause it would
only be because the neutral was overloaded by the inballance. With a
properly balanced load the neutral carries NO current.

You're spreading misinformation again. He has some kind of obvious neutral
problem. You don't fix a bad neutral by "properly balancing" the loads.
The only way the neutral carries no current is if the loads are *perfectly
balanced", something that for all practical purposes almost never exists
and certainly doesn't exist in his shop where you need to run whatever you
need to run at the moment. This wrong path, moving loads around, was where
he was headed and now you're justifying him doing it.

Uncle Monster wrote in
:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller
wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming
from the pow
er company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral
connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose.

"Could be"??

This is an *obvious* case of a bad neutral connection somewhere.

And as has been pointed out by several others, the transformers are factory-wound. The
center tap isn't something that the power company can, or should, move.

Uncle Monster wrote in
:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:32:10 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller
wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:


I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just
showed up recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at
his power company a call.

No, it's not. It's time he calls an electrician to fix his bad
neutral co
nnection.

I know a number of electricians who couldn't figure it out.

There are incompetents in every field. So what? He still has a neutral problem, he still
doesn't understand that, he still doesn't know how to find it, and he still needs to call
someone who can.

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 2:24:02 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 23:45:50 -0500, wrote:

Yea, it should have been spelled Imbalance. I used to be a very good
speller in my younger days - last one standing in spelling bees, but
there are more words now, and I've let my spelling slip - and
generally don't use spell-check.

There are a lot less words now if you listen to that garbage Rap Music
the kids listen to these days. They can write an entire 5 minute song
using only 3 or 4 vulgar words!

Or they simply remake a song from "our" era and toss in a vulgarity or
two just to suck the kids in.

Every time I see my kids (now in their 20's) getting into a remake of a
song from days gone by, I make sure that I point out that the song is
old and toss in "because these new guys don't know how to write anything
good."

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 14:02:09 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Uncle Monster wrote in
:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller
wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming
from the pow
er company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral
connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose.

"Could be"??

This is an *obvious* case of a bad neutral connection somewhere.

And as has been pointed out by several others, the transformers are factory-wound. The
center tap isn't something that the power company can, or should, move.
And it is also obvious it's not in the meter base IF, as the OP has
stated, the voltages in the house are the same on both legs, with an 8
volt "slip" in the voltage in the shop (up4 on one side, down 4 on the
other)

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 8:04:50 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller
wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming
from the pow
er company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral
connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose.

"Could be"??

This is an *obvious* case of a bad neutral connection somewhere.

And as has been pointed out by several others, the transformers are factory-wound. The
center tap isn't something that the power company can, or should, move.

I guess I was seeing things on the transformers I looked at. Heck, perhaps the design has changed? The darn things still explode every now and then. What do I know, I'm just a bearded curmudgeon sitting here in a hospital bed dressed in a T-shirt and disposable pull-ups. O_o

http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/m...threadid=40575

http://apps.geindustrial.com/publibrary/checkout/1PHPTTR-1208-1?TNR=Brochures|1PHPTTR-1208-1|generic

http://i.dslr.net/syms/e0d5e550200fa...6236072c43.jpg

http://i.dslr.net/syms/f5b729645e948...5e7d398916.png

[8~{} Uncle Tap Monster

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 8:07:52 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:32:10 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller
wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:


I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just
showed up recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at
his power company a call.

No, it's not. It's time he calls an electrician to fix his bad
neutral co
nnection.

I know a number of electricians who couldn't figure it out.

There are incompetents in every field. So what? He still has a neutral problem, he still
doesn't understand that, he still doesn't know how to find it, and he still needs to call
someone who can.

He should be lynched for the crime of trying to learn about electrical power. I'd hope he posts a report on what finally turns up as the cause of his malfunction. ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Imbalanced Monster

On 12/31/2015 4:49 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 8:04:50 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:

And as has been pointed out by several others, the transformers are factory-wound. The
center tap isn't something that the power company can, or should, move.

I guess I was seeing things on the transformers I looked at. Heck, perhaps the design has changed? The darn things still explode every now and then. What do I know, I'm just a bearded curmudgeon sitting here in a hospital bed dressed in a T-shirt and disposable pull-ups. O_o



I should live so long. As should we all.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 13:49:25 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 8:04:50 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller
wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming
from the pow
er company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral
connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose.

"Could be"??

This is an *obvious* case of a bad neutral connection somewhere.

And as has been pointed out by several others, the transformers are factory-wound. The
center tap isn't something that the power company can, or should, move.

I guess I was seeing things on the transformers I looked at. Heck, perhaps the design has changed?

This is what FPL uses right now

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/50%2...ransformer.jpg
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/50%20kva%20label.jpg
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Tran...20selector.jpg

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 6:26:30 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 13:49:25 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 8:04:50 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller
wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming
from the pow
er company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral
connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose.

"Could be"??

This is an *obvious* case of a bad neutral connection somewhere.

And as has been pointed out by several others, the transformers are factory-wound. The
center tap isn't something that the power company can, or should, move..

I guess I was seeing things on the transformers I looked at. Heck, perhaps the design has changed?

This is what FPL uses right now

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/50%2...ransformer.jpg
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/50%20kva%20label.jpg
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Tran...20selector.jpg

I don't recall what Southern Company thought was out of spec but do you know what Florida Power will crawl out of bed to adjust? Oh yea, you're in Florida, land of lightning and exploding transformers. How many transformers would you guess FPL loses during a typical hisicane or is it mostly HV fuses? (-_-)ã‚žã‚›

[8~{} Uncle Storm Monster

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 23:31:23 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 6:26:30 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 13:49:25 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 8:04:50 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller
wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming
from the pow
er company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral
connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose.

"Could be"??

This is an *obvious* case of a bad neutral connection somewhere.

And as has been pointed out by several others, the transformers are factory-wound. The
center tap isn't something that the power company can, or should, move.

I guess I was seeing things on the transformers I looked at. Heck, perhaps the design has changed?

This is what FPL uses right now

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/50%2...ransformer.jpg
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/50%20kva%20label.jpg
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Tran...20selector.jpg

I don't recall what Southern Company thought was out of spec but do you know what Florida Power will crawl out of bed to adjust? Oh yea, you're in Florida, land of lightning and exploding transformers. How many transformers would you guess FPL loses during a typical hisicane or is it mostly HV fuses? (-_-)??

[8~{} Uncle Storm Monster

I don't think they go through that many transformers.
We are pretty good with lightning protection here.
Usually the recloser fixes it.