Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 11:32:42 PM UTC-6, IGot2P wrote:
Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power company could move to change the voltage on one leg. Don't waste time speaking with one of the nice ladies who answer the phone, ask/demand nicely to speak with one of the engineers and voice your concerns. I've had problems with power before and the nice CSR wanted to sell me a surge arrester but I insisted on speaking to someone in the engineering department who spoke electron. (€¢€¿€¢)

[8~{} Uncle Amped Monster

Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming from the power company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming from the power company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose. There are all kinds of things that can cause an imbalance which is why, in another post, I wondered if the problem had just suddenly appeared after everything had been normal from the start. If the OP has inspected the neutral connections everywhere he can get to and believes it's a bad neutral connection then he should cut the seal off the meter, pull the meter and check the connections there. So if his neutral connections are good all the way through to the meter base, what should he do next if he doesn't have pole climbing gear? Of course he should contact his power company and inform them that he cut the seal off the meter socket and the reason why. If it's one of the newer remote reading meters, the power company will know anyway but it's best to inform the utility. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 3:16:02 PM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming from the power company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral connection in
the meter base could be a problem if it's loose.

I believe from the tests he performed the problem was isolated to be
between the subpanel and the main panel, not between the main panel
and the utility. He had normal voltages at the main panel.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 2:34:07 PM UTC-6, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 3:16:02 PM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming from the power company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral connection in
the meter base could be a problem if it's loose.

I believe from the tests he performed the problem was isolated to be
between the subpanel and the main panel, not between the main panel
and the utility. He had normal voltages at the main panel.

I didn't see that post but it makes perfect sense. I'd also wonder if he was using a breaker as a switch to feed his out building. If the breaker isn't switch rated, one of the contacts could have burned. I've been able to track down problems like that with one of my infrared thermometers and my ultrasonic leak detector which allowed me to hear the sizzling contacts. In the late 1980's I was working for an electrical contracting group that had gotten into a new field of service for business and industry where we used thermal imaging cameras to check all of their electrical panels. Bad connections and defective breakers showed up very quickly. A problem I've seen more than once is caused by using a circuit breaker as a switch when it is't rated for that kind of service. Voltage drop across breaker contacts would be one of the first things I'd check for when there's an imbalance and no obvious indications of loose connections exist. Anyway, It's been quite a while since I've done any field work. ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Lazy Monster

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 12:15:58 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming from the power company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose. There are all kinds of things that can cause an imbalance which is why, in another post, I wondered if the problem had just suddenly appeared after everything had been normal from the start. If the OP has inspected the neutral connections everywhere he can get to and believes it's a bad neutral connection then he should cut the seal off the meter, pull the meter and check the connections there. So if his neutral connections are good all the way through to the meter base, what should he do next if he doesn't have pole climbing gear? Of course he should contact his power company and inform them that he cut the seal off the meter socket and the reason why. If it's one of the newer remote reading meters, the power company will know anyway but it's best to inform the utility. ?.?

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster
The problem with your solution is the voltage at the "main" panel in
the house has no problem. He has a problem between the main and the
sub. Underszed feed (for the length) and inballanced load could
explain it. Otherwize he has a neutral problem.

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 12:15:58 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming from the power company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose. There are all kinds of things that can cause an imbalance which is why, in another post, I wondered if the problem had just suddenly appeared after everything had been normal from the start. If the OP has inspected the neutral connections everywhere he can get to and believes it's a bad neutral connection then he should cut the seal off the meter, pull the meter and check the connections there. So if his neutral connections are good all the way through to the meter base, what should he do next if he doesn't have pole climbing gear? Of course he should contact his power company and inform them that he cut the seal off the meter socket and the reason why. If it's one of the newer remote reading meters, the power company will know anyway but it's best to inform the utility. ?.?

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster
My saying an undersized fead and inballanced load could cause it would
only be because the neutral was overloaded by the inballance. With a
properly balanced load the neutral carries NO current.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 8:04:45 PM UTC-6, wrote:

My saying an undersized fead and inballanced load could cause it would
only be because the neutral was overloaded by the inballance. With a
properly balanced load the neutral carries NO current.

I think you have a hybrid word "imbalance" and "unbalance"? (or I'm not competent in Canadienese) (à²*_ృ)

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:04:45 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 12:15:58 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming from the power company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose. There are all kinds of things that can cause an imbalance which is why, in another post, I wondered if the problem had just suddenly appeared after everything had been normal from the start. If the OP has inspected the neutral connections everywhere he can get to and believes it's a bad neutral connection then he should cut the seal off the meter, pull the meter and check the connections there. So if his neutral connections are good all the way through to the meter base, what should he do next if he doesn't have pole climbing gear? Of course he should contact his power company and inform them that he cut the seal off the meter socket and the reason why. If it's one of the newer remote reading meters, the power company will know anyway but it's best to inform the utility. ?.?

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster
My saying an undersized fead and inballanced load could cause it would
only be because the neutral was overloaded by the inballance. With a
properly balanced load the neutral carries NO current.

Perfectly balanced would be a better term, which of course isn't possible
unless all the loads are fixed. In a shop like he has, like almost anywhere
else, the loads are never going to be perfectly balanced. The problem isn't
the balancing, the problem is he has a bad neutral connection.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:04:45 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 12:15:58 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming from the power company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose. There are all kinds of things that can cause an imbalance which is why, in another post, I wondered if the problem had just suddenly appeared after everything had been normal from the start. If the OP has inspected the neutral connections everywhere he can get to and believes it's a bad neutral connection then he should cut the seal off the meter, pull the meter and check the connections there. So if his neutral connections are good all the way through to the meter base, what should he do next if he doesn't have pole climbing gear? Of course he should contact his power company and inform them that he cut the seal off the meter socket and the reason why. If it's one of the newer remote reading meters, the power company will know anyway but it's best to inform the utility. ?.?

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster
My saying an undersized fead and inballanced load could cause it would
only be because the neutral was overloaded by the inballance. With a
properly balanced load the neutral carries NO current.

You're spreading misinformation again. He has some kind of obvious neutral
problem. You don't fix a bad neutral by "properly balancing" the loads.
The only way the neutral carries no current is if the loads are *perfectly
balanced", something that for all practical purposes almost never exists
and certainly doesn't exist in his shop where you need to run whatever you
need to run at the moment. This wrong path, moving loads around, was where
he was headed and now you're justifying him doing it.

Uncle Monster wrote in
:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller
wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming
from the pow
er company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral
connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose.

"Could be"??

This is an *obvious* case of a bad neutral connection somewhere.

And as has been pointed out by several others, the transformers are factory-wound. The
center tap isn't something that the power company can, or should, move.

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 14:02:09 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Uncle Monster wrote in
:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller
wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming
from the pow
er company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral
connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose.

"Could be"??

This is an *obvious* case of a bad neutral connection somewhere.

And as has been pointed out by several others, the transformers are factory-wound. The
center tap isn't something that the power company can, or should, move.
And it is also obvious it's not in the meter base IF, as the OP has
stated, the voltages in the house are the same on both legs, with an 8
volt "slip" in the voltage in the shop (up4 on one side, down 4 on the
other)

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 8:04:50 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:29:32 AM UTC-6, Doug Miller
wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote in
:

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power
company could move to change the voltage on one leg.

No, it probably doesn't. And the problem isn't what's coming
from the pow
er company anyway.
The problem is that his neutral connection is bad.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that the neutral
connection in the meter base could be a problem if it's loose.

"Could be"??

This is an *obvious* case of a bad neutral connection somewhere.

And as has been pointed out by several others, the transformers are factory-wound. The
center tap isn't something that the power company can, or should, move.

I guess I was seeing things on the transformers I looked at. Heck, perhaps the design has changed? The darn things still explode every now and then. What do I know, I'm just a bearded curmudgeon sitting here in a hospital bed dressed in a T-shirt and disposable pull-ups. O_o

http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/m...threadid=40575

http://apps.geindustrial.com/publibrary/checkout/1PHPTTR-1208-1?TNR=Brochures|1PHPTTR-1208-1|generic

http://i.dslr.net/syms/e0d5e550200fa...6236072c43.jpg

http://i.dslr.net/syms/f5b729645e948...5e7d398916.png

[8~{} Uncle Tap Monster

On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.



You have a poor neutral connection somewhere. Guaranteed. One leg is
higher than the other, which means there is more load on one side than
the other and your neutral is floating to some extent. Check at the
main breaker at the house, from each line in turn to both neutral and
ground. If you have the same difference there, call the power company
or an electrician to check the problem. (or if you feel qualified,
check the torque on all the neutral connections in your service box
first - if still off, call the power co) If the house circuits are
good and the shop is not, check the neutral wire for the shop circuit,
both at the main panel and at the shop sub-panel. There is no other
explanation than a bad neutral somewhere. It might not be in your
house - it could be anywhere between your house and the transformer.
Check with your next door nieghbor to see if they have the same
situation - then you know if it is "local" to your house, or more
system wide.

On 12/28/2015 1:09 AM, wrote:
You have a poor neutral connection somewhere. Guaranteed.


What happens if it's a bad center tap or
load imbalannce?

I suggest if your guarantee fails, you
need to discuss with IGP what will be
your pentalty. Perhaps donate $100 to
Salvation Army in the name of IGP.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 07:13:01 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/28/2015 1:09 AM, wrote:
You have a poor neutral connection somewhere. Guaranteed.


What happens if it's a bad center tap or
load imbalannce?

I suggest if your guarantee fails, you
need to discuss with IGP what will be
your pentalty. Perhaps donate $100 to
Salvation Army in the name of IGP.
The "poor neutral connection" MAY be in the transformer - but it's
still the neutral. If it's in the transformer the transformer needs to
be replaced to solve the problem because it is either a bad connection
or a burned winding.. It is almost definitely NOT an error in the
initial winding of the transformer.

My guarantee is a 100% money back guarantee. He didn't pay anything
for my opinion. He gets exactly that back if I'm wrong.

And if he proves I am wrong, He will also get my appology.

More than he'd get from many others.

On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

I say you're getting 8 volts for free and you shouldn't complain.

If you really can't use them, you might even be able to sell these 8
volts. It's a shame you didn't post before Xmas because that's when
people are spending money, but you probably only lost 20% or so.

If you're in a hurry, or don't want strangers coming to your home,
contact an electricity wholesaler.

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-6, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

I say you're getting 8 volts for free and you shouldn't complain.

If you really can't use them, you might even be able to sell these 8
volts. It's a shame you didn't post before Xmas because that's when
people are spending money, but you probably only lost 20% or so.

If you're in a hurry, or don't want strangers coming to your home,
contact an electricity wholesaler.

There was a time when you could purchase storage containers for excess voltage at any hardware store but the things were pulled off the market for safety reasons because overfilling caused explosions of the containers after owners tampered with the safety devices. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Punny Monster

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 2:09:38 AM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-6, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

I say you're getting 8 volts for free and you shouldn't complain.

If you really can't use them, you might even be able to sell these 8
volts. It's a shame you didn't post before Xmas because that's when
people are spending money, but you probably only lost 20% or so.

If you're in a hurry, or don't want strangers coming to your home,
contact an electricity wholesaler.

There was a time when you could purchase storage containers for excess voltage at any hardware store but the things were pulled off the market for safety reasons because overfilling caused explosions of the containers after owners tampered with the safety devices. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Punny Monster

The root cause of the overfilling is known as the "ice cream and
mayonnaise syndrome".

Similar to the shrinkage of product container sizes without a
corresponding reduction in price, the excess voltage containers
used to hold up to 10 volts but now only hold 6. People are ignoring
the labeling and trying to stuff more volts into the containers
than will fit, resulting in dangerous voltage leaks.

The current practice is to use electrical tape to try and prevent the
leaks. The inspectors get all amped up about this and are trying to
clamp down on the practice.

Cousin Shrinkage Monster

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 8:57:02 AM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 2:09:38 AM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-6, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

I say you're getting 8 volts for free and you shouldn't complain.

If you really can't use them, you might even be able to sell these 8
volts. It's a shame you didn't post before Xmas because that's when
people are spending money, but you probably only lost 20% or so.

If you're in a hurry, or don't want strangers coming to your home,
contact an electricity wholesaler.

There was a time when you could purchase storage containers for excess voltage at any hardware store but the things were pulled off the market for safety reasons because overfilling caused explosions of the containers after owners tampered with the safety devices. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Punny Monster

The root cause of the overfilling is known as the "ice cream and
mayonnaise syndrome".

Similar to the shrinkage of product container sizes without a
corresponding reduction in price, the excess voltage containers
used to hold up to 10 volts but now only hold 6. People are ignoring
the labeling and trying to stuff more volts into the containers
than will fit, resulting in dangerous voltage leaks.

The current practice is to use electrical tape to try and prevent the
leaks. The inspectors get all amped up about this and are trying to
clamp down on the practice.

Cousin Shrinkage Monster

I remember back in the day when everything we did was dangerous. Nowadays, the fraking government steps in and makes sure that stupid people survive to reproduce. When Darwin's law is violated, society deteriorates. Š™..˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Culling Monster

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 10:09:44 AM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 8:57:02 AM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 2:09:38 AM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-6, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

I say you're getting 8 volts for free and you shouldn't complain.

If you really can't use them, you might even be able to sell these 8
volts. It's a shame you didn't post before Xmas because that's when
people are spending money, but you probably only lost 20% or so.

If you're in a hurry, or don't want strangers coming to your home,
contact an electricity wholesaler.

There was a time when you could purchase storage containers for excess voltage at any hardware store but the things were pulled off the market for safety reasons because overfilling caused explosions of the containers after owners tampered with the safety devices. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Punny Monster

The root cause of the overfilling is known as the "ice cream and
mayonnaise syndrome".

Similar to the shrinkage of product container sizes without a
corresponding reduction in price, the excess voltage containers
used to hold up to 10 volts but now only hold 6. People are ignoring
the labeling and trying to stuff more volts into the containers
than will fit, resulting in dangerous voltage leaks.

The current practice is to use electrical tape to try and prevent the
leaks. The inspectors get all amped up about this and are trying to
clamp down on the practice.

Cousin Shrinkage Monster

I remember back in the day when everything we did was dangerous. Nowadays, the fraking government steps in and makes sure that stupid people survive to reproduce. When Darwin's law is violated, society deteriorates. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Culling Monster

Over the Christmas holiday, I stopped by the house that my grandfather
built when I was a young kid. (A family member still lives there)

The light switch in the pantry hasn't changed in 50+ years. It's a
toggle switch like the one linked to below, with zip cord running from
the ceramic light fixture in the ceiling and wire-nutted/taped to the
leads from the switch. No junction box was used for the connection at the
switch. The wire nuts just sort of hang out in mid-air.

http://d2pbmlo3fglvvr.cloudfront.net..._Jzv-fo5oy.JPG

Cousin It-Always-Made-Me-Nervous Monster

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 06:56:54 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 2:09:38 AM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-6, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

I say you're getting 8 volts for free and you shouldn't complain.

If you really can't use them, you might even be able to sell these 8
volts. It's a shame you didn't post before Xmas because that's when
people are spending money, but you probably only lost 20% or so.

If you're in a hurry, or don't want strangers coming to your home,
contact an electricity wholesaler.

There was a time when you could purchase storage containers for excess voltage at any hardware store but the things were pulled off the market for safety reasons because overfilling caused explosions of the containers after owners tampered with the safety devices. ?.?

[8~{} Uncle Punny Monster

The root cause of the overfilling is known as the "ice cream and
mayonnaise syndrome".

Similar to the shrinkage of product container sizes without a
corresponding reduction in price, the excess voltage containers
used to hold up to 10 volts but now only hold 6. People are ignoring
the labeling and trying to stuff more volts into the containers
than will fit, resulting in dangerous voltage leaks.

The current practice is to use electrical tape to try and prevent the
leaks. The inspectors get all amped up about this and are trying to
clamp down on the practice.

Cousin Shrinkage Monster
Actually they still sell them, but they are called rechargeable
batteries - or primary cells - but they have been proven not to work
very well at storing excess alternating current (AC) voltage.

When used contrary to the manufacturer's directions they fail
catastrophically and "let out the magic smoke"

A better alternative is to either "amp up" the low voltage side or
"clamp down" the high voltage side instead of "amping up" the
inspector (who should be wearing high voltage protective gear) or
"clamping down " on the practice - when it sounds like mabee he needs
more practice at his job - - - - -

Grampa Sparky Monster.

On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Yep, one "LEG" is higher than the other.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

So why didn't you just go in the house and open the panel, and measure
the voltages on the MAINS. It would have only taken a few more minutes
to pop off that cover and measure it. [Before you posted this]. At least
then we would know for sure that your MAINS (directly from the meter)
are not balanced.

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.


All electrical stuff is rated for 120 volts, but few homes have exactly
120. Most are somewhere between 115 to 125. All regular appliances and
bulbs will work just fine on any voltage in this range. If you get below
110 or above 130, there will be problems. (and 110 and 130 are already
pushing the limits).

I have 118 on both legs at the moment...

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 5:07:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Yep, one "LEG" is higher than the other.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

So why didn't you just go in the house and open the panel, and measure
the voltages on the MAINS. It would have only taken a few more minutes
to pop off that cover and measure it. [Before you posted this]. At least
then we would know for sure that your MAINS (directly from the meter)
are not balanced.



+1

Many posters suggested it could be a problem with either a loose neutral
on his side or the power company's side. Simple way to find out if it's
his side is to check at the incoming service at the main panel.

On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.




Do the same thing at the house panel, then get back to us.

We can play "spot the violations" later ;-)

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The grounds in a sub-panel are not to be terminated on the neutral bar. Remove the green screw and install a separate ground bar in your sub-panel for the grounding conductors.

Did you contact the power company? A problem with one of their lines may be causing the voltage drop.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 07:44:15 -0800 (PST), John G
wrote:


Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The grounds in a sub-panel are not to be terminated on the neutral bar. Remove the green screw and install a separate ground bar in your sub-panel for the grounding conductors.

Did you contact the power company? A problem with one of their lines may be causing the voltage drop.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Is that all you saw ;-)

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 11:04:33 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 07:44:15 -0800 (PST), John G
wrote:


Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The grounds in a sub-panel are not to be terminated on the neutral bar. Remove the green screw and install a separate ground bar in your sub-panel for the grounding conductors.

Did you contact the power company? A problem with one of their lines may be causing the voltage drop.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Is that all you saw ;-)
He doesn't have a voltage "drop" he has a voltage "imballance". His
service voltage is pretty well dead on where it should be at a total
of 117+125=242 volts. Only 1% over spec.

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 10:48:22 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 11:04:33 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 07:44:15 -0800 (PST), John G
wrote:


Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The grounds in a sub-panel are not to be terminated on the neutral bar. Remove the green screw and install a separate ground bar in your sub-panel for the grounding conductors.

Did you contact the power company? A problem with one of their lines may be causing the voltage drop.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Is that all you saw ;-)
He doesn't have a voltage "drop" he has a voltage "imballance". His
service voltage is pretty well dead on where it should be at a total
of 117+125=242 volts. Only 1% over spec.

I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just showed up recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at his power company a call. I called them before when a commercial customer was having a problem and they sent a tech out to install monitoring equipment that showed a problem that was intermittent. It was a problem on a pole a mile away. On another occasion I called them for another customer about an intermittent problem and before the problem was resolved, the transformer feeding the building exploded. Luckily, no one was around when it blew up. Eletwizidy be dainjerus. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster

On 12/28/2015 12:11 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just showed up recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at his power company a call. I called them before when a commercial customer was having a problem and they sent a tech out to install monitoring equipment that showed a problem that was intermittent. It was a problem on a pole a mile away. On another occasion I called them for another customer about an intermittent problem and before the problem was resolved, the transformer feeding the building exploded. Luckily, no one was around when it blew up. Eletwizidy be dainjerus. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster


So, Clare is likely mistaken?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:11:44 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just showed up recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at his power company a call. I called them before when a commercial customer was having a problem and they sent a tech out to install monitoring equipment that showed a problem that was intermittent. It was a problem on a pole a mile away.

You are trying to tell us that a PoCo had over a mile of "secondary"
wiring. I don't think so. The transformer that takes the medium
voltage distribution down to the service voltage is usually within a
hundred feet of the service point.
The 120/240 or 120/208 will come from that transformer bundle if it
isn't coming from a customer owned SDS.
I would agree that a problem in their primary could cause bad voltages
but all of them would be bad in the same direction (GIGO)

Uncle Monster wrote in
:


I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just showed
up recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at his power
company a call.

No, it's not. It's time he calls an electrician to fix his bad neutral connection.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 11:48:25 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 11:04:33 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 07:44:15 -0800 (PST), John G
wrote:


Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The grounds in a sub-panel are not to be terminated on the neutral bar. Remove the green screw and install a separate ground bar in your sub-panel for the grounding conductors.

Did you contact the power company? A problem with one of their lines may be causing the voltage drop.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Is that all you saw ;-)
He doesn't have a voltage "drop" he has a voltage "imballance". His
service voltage is pretty well dead on where it should be at a total
of 117+125=242 volts. Only 1% over spec.

The voltage drop is in the neutral

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The grounds in a sub-panel are not to be terminated on the neutral bar. Remove the green screw and install a separate ground bar in your sub-panel for the grounding conductors.

Did you contact the power company? A problem with one of their lines may be causing the voltage drop.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Is that all you saw ;-)

Are you referring to the two different brands of circuit breakers?

On 12/29/2015 10:54 AM, John G wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The grounds in a sub-panel are not to be terminated on the neutral bar. Remove the green screw and install a separate ground bar in your sub-panel for the grounding conductors.

Did you contact the power company? A problem with one of their lines may be causing the voltage drop.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Is that all you saw ;-)

Are you referring to the two different brands of circuit breakers?

No GFCI's and I suspect there may be some need for them in a "shop"
(without knowing what else is in the building).

Two 20A breakers are unused -- both on the same leg (a likely place
to suspect a sizeable imbalance)

The bottom right two-pole breaker feeds a 220V circuit wired black/white
(i.e., the safety "ground" acting as neutral for any appliance
fed from that branch)

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 12:01:35 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 12/29/2015 10:54 AM, John G wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The grounds in a sub-panel are not to be terminated on the neutral bar. Remove the green screw and install a separate ground bar in your sub-panel for the grounding conductors.

Did you contact the power company? A problem with one of their lines may be causing the voltage drop.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Is that all you saw ;-)

Are you referring to the two different brands of circuit breakers?

No GFCI's and I suspect there may be some need for them in a "shop"
(without knowing what else is in the building).

Two 20A breakers are unused -- both on the same leg (a likely place
to suspect a sizeable imbalance)

The bottom right two-pole breaker feeds a 220V circuit wired black/white
(i.e., the safety "ground" acting as neutral for any appliance
fed from that branch)
Unless there is no 120 volt component to the device in which case
there IS no neutral.

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 2:01:18 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:


The bottom right two-pole breaker feeds a 220V circuit wired black/white
(i.e., the safety "ground" acting as neutral for any appliance
fed from that branch)

It's actually the reverse. The neutral also serves as a ground for
old circuits installed in the days when it was permitted, prior to a
separate ground being required. A neutral was always required to
support a circuit with both 240V and 120V loads, it can't physically
work without it. The concept of requiring grounds came later.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 12:01:35 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 12/29/2015 10:54 AM, John G wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The grounds in a sub-panel are not to be terminated on the neutral bar. Remove the green screw and install a separate ground bar in your sub-panel for the grounding conductors.

Did you contact the power company? A problem with one of their lines may be causing the voltage drop.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Is that all you saw ;-)

Are you referring to the two different brands of circuit breakers?

No GFCI's and I suspect there may be some need for them in a "shop"
(without knowing what else is in the building).

Two 20A breakers are unused -- both on the same leg (a likely place
to suspect a sizeable imbalance)

That is why I asked about the feeder size.


The bottom right two-pole breaker feeds a 220V circuit wired black/white
(i.e., the safety "ground" acting as neutral for any appliance
fed from that branch)

There is plenty of 240v shop equipment that doesn't use a neutral.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 09:54:59 -0800 (PST), John G
wrote:

Is that all you saw ;-)

Are you referring to the two different brands of circuit breakers?

I was willing to give him a huss on that. They are probably
"classified" for that panel.