Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 11:32:42 PM UTC-6, IGot2P wrote:
Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The transformer on the pole may have a tap that you power company could move to change the voltage on one leg. Don't waste time speaking with one of the nice ladies who answer the phone, ask/demand nicely to speak with one of the engineers and voice your concerns. I've had problems with power before and the nice CSR wanted to sell me a surge arrester but I insisted on speaking to someone in the engineering department who spoke electron. (€¢€¿€¢)

[8~{} Uncle Amped Monster

On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.



You have a poor neutral connection somewhere. Guaranteed. One leg is
higher than the other, which means there is more load on one side than
the other and your neutral is floating to some extent. Check at the
main breaker at the house, from each line in turn to both neutral and
ground. If you have the same difference there, call the power company
or an electrician to check the problem. (or if you feel qualified,
check the torque on all the neutral connections in your service box
first - if still off, call the power co) If the house circuits are
good and the shop is not, check the neutral wire for the shop circuit,
both at the main panel and at the shop sub-panel. There is no other
explanation than a bad neutral somewhere. It might not be in your
house - it could be anywhere between your house and the transformer.
Check with your next door nieghbor to see if they have the same
situation - then you know if it is "local" to your house, or more
system wide.

On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

I say you're getting 8 volts for free and you shouldn't complain.

If you really can't use them, you might even be able to sell these 8
volts. It's a shame you didn't post before Xmas because that's when
people are spending money, but you probably only lost 20% or so.

If you're in a hurry, or don't want strangers coming to your home,
contact an electricity wholesaler.

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-6, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

I say you're getting 8 volts for free and you shouldn't complain.

If you really can't use them, you might even be able to sell these 8
volts. It's a shame you didn't post before Xmas because that's when
people are spending money, but you probably only lost 20% or so.

If you're in a hurry, or don't want strangers coming to your home,
contact an electricity wholesaler.

There was a time when you could purchase storage containers for excess voltage at any hardware store but the things were pulled off the market for safety reasons because overfilling caused explosions of the containers after owners tampered with the safety devices. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Punny Monster

On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Yep, one "LEG" is higher than the other.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

So why didn't you just go in the house and open the panel, and measure
the voltages on the MAINS. It would have only taken a few more minutes
to pop off that cover and measure it. [Before you posted this]. At least
then we would know for sure that your MAINS (directly from the meter)
are not balanced.

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.


All electrical stuff is rated for 120 volts, but few homes have exactly
120. Most are somewhere between 115 to 125. All regular appliances and
bulbs will work just fine on any voltage in this range. If you get below
110 or above 130, there will be problems. (and 110 and 130 are already
pushing the limits).

I have 118 on both legs at the moment...

On 12/28/2015 1:09 AM, wrote:
You have a poor neutral connection somewhere. Guaranteed.


What happens if it's a bad center tap or
load imbalannce?

I suggest if your guarantee fails, you
need to discuss with IGP what will be
your pentalty. Perhaps donate $100 to
Salvation Army in the name of IGP.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 5:07:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Yep, one "LEG" is higher than the other.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

So why didn't you just go in the house and open the panel, and measure
the voltages on the MAINS. It would have only taken a few more minutes
to pop off that cover and measure it. [Before you posted this]. At least
then we would know for sure that your MAINS (directly from the meter)
are not balanced.



+1

Many posters suggested it could be a problem with either a loose neutral
on his side or the power company's side. Simple way to find out if it's
his side is to check at the incoming service at the main panel.

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 2:09:38 AM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-6, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

I say you're getting 8 volts for free and you shouldn't complain.

If you really can't use them, you might even be able to sell these 8
volts. It's a shame you didn't post before Xmas because that's when
people are spending money, but you probably only lost 20% or so.

If you're in a hurry, or don't want strangers coming to your home,
contact an electricity wholesaler.

There was a time when you could purchase storage containers for excess voltage at any hardware store but the things were pulled off the market for safety reasons because overfilling caused explosions of the containers after owners tampered with the safety devices. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Punny Monster

The root cause of the overfilling is known as the "ice cream and
mayonnaise syndrome".

Similar to the shrinkage of product container sizes without a
corresponding reduction in price, the excess voltage containers
used to hold up to 10 volts but now only hold 6. People are ignoring
the labeling and trying to stuff more volts into the containers
than will fit, resulting in dangerous voltage leaks.

The current practice is to use electrical tape to try and prevent the
leaks. The inspectors get all amped up about this and are trying to
clamp down on the practice.

Cousin Shrinkage Monster

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 8:57:02 AM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 2:09:38 AM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-6, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

I say you're getting 8 volts for free and you shouldn't complain.

If you really can't use them, you might even be able to sell these 8
volts. It's a shame you didn't post before Xmas because that's when
people are spending money, but you probably only lost 20% or so.

If you're in a hurry, or don't want strangers coming to your home,
contact an electricity wholesaler.

There was a time when you could purchase storage containers for excess voltage at any hardware store but the things were pulled off the market for safety reasons because overfilling caused explosions of the containers after owners tampered with the safety devices. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Punny Monster

The root cause of the overfilling is known as the "ice cream and
mayonnaise syndrome".

Similar to the shrinkage of product container sizes without a
corresponding reduction in price, the excess voltage containers
used to hold up to 10 volts but now only hold 6. People are ignoring
the labeling and trying to stuff more volts into the containers
than will fit, resulting in dangerous voltage leaks.

The current practice is to use electrical tape to try and prevent the
leaks. The inspectors get all amped up about this and are trying to
clamp down on the practice.

Cousin Shrinkage Monster

I remember back in the day when everything we did was dangerous. Nowadays, the fraking government steps in and makes sure that stupid people survive to reproduce. When Darwin's law is violated, society deteriorates. Š™..˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Culling Monster

On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.




Do the same thing at the house panel, then get back to us.

We can play "spot the violations" later ;-)

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 10:09:44 AM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 8:57:02 AM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 2:09:38 AM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-6, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

I say you're getting 8 volts for free and you shouldn't complain.

If you really can't use them, you might even be able to sell these 8
volts. It's a shame you didn't post before Xmas because that's when
people are spending money, but you probably only lost 20% or so.

If you're in a hurry, or don't want strangers coming to your home,
contact an electricity wholesaler.

There was a time when you could purchase storage containers for excess voltage at any hardware store but the things were pulled off the market for safety reasons because overfilling caused explosions of the containers after owners tampered with the safety devices. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Punny Monster

The root cause of the overfilling is known as the "ice cream and
mayonnaise syndrome".

Similar to the shrinkage of product container sizes without a
corresponding reduction in price, the excess voltage containers
used to hold up to 10 volts but now only hold 6. People are ignoring
the labeling and trying to stuff more volts into the containers
than will fit, resulting in dangerous voltage leaks.

The current practice is to use electrical tape to try and prevent the
leaks. The inspectors get all amped up about this and are trying to
clamp down on the practice.

Cousin Shrinkage Monster

I remember back in the day when everything we did was dangerous. Nowadays, the fraking government steps in and makes sure that stupid people survive to reproduce. When Darwin's law is violated, society deteriorates. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Culling Monster

Over the Christmas holiday, I stopped by the house that my grandfather
built when I was a young kid. (A family member still lives there)

The light switch in the pantry hasn't changed in 50+ years. It's a
toggle switch like the one linked to below, with zip cord running from
the ceramic light fixture in the ceiling and wire-nutted/taped to the
leads from the switch. No junction box was used for the connection at the
switch. The wire nuts just sort of hang out in mid-air.

http://d2pbmlo3fglvvr.cloudfront.net..._Jzv-fo5oy.JPG

Cousin It-Always-Made-Me-Nervous Monster

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The grounds in a sub-panel are not to be terminated on the neutral bar. Remove the green screw and install a separate ground bar in your sub-panel for the grounding conductors.

Did you contact the power company? A problem with one of their lines may be causing the voltage drop.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 07:44:15 -0800 (PST), John G
wrote:


Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The grounds in a sub-panel are not to be terminated on the neutral bar. Remove the green screw and install a separate ground bar in your sub-panel for the grounding conductors.

Did you contact the power company? A problem with one of their lines may be causing the voltage drop.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Is that all you saw ;-)

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 07:33:11 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 10:09:44 AM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 8:57:02 AM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 2:09:38 AM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-6, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

I say you're getting 8 volts for free and you shouldn't complain.

If you really can't use them, you might even be able to sell these 8
volts. It's a shame you didn't post before Xmas because that's when
people are spending money, but you probably only lost 20% or so.

If you're in a hurry, or don't want strangers coming to your home,
contact an electricity wholesaler.

There was a time when you could purchase storage containers for excess voltage at any hardware store but the things were pulled off the market for safety reasons because overfilling caused explosions of the containers after owners tampered with the safety devices. ?.?

[8~{} Uncle Punny Monster

The root cause of the overfilling is known as the "ice cream and
mayonnaise syndrome".

Similar to the shrinkage of product container sizes without a
corresponding reduction in price, the excess voltage containers
used to hold up to 10 volts but now only hold 6. People are ignoring
the labeling and trying to stuff more volts into the containers
than will fit, resulting in dangerous voltage leaks.

The current practice is to use electrical tape to try and prevent the
leaks. The inspectors get all amped up about this and are trying to
clamp down on the practice.

Cousin Shrinkage Monster

I remember back in the day when everything we did was dangerous. Nowadays, the fraking government steps in and makes sure that stupid people survive to reproduce. When Darwin's law is violated, society deteriorates. ?.?

[8~{} Uncle Culling Monster

Over the Christmas holiday, I stopped by the house that my grandfather
built when I was a young kid. (A family member still lives there)

The light switch in the pantry hasn't changed in 50+ years. It's a
toggle switch like the one linked to below, with zip cord running from
the ceramic light fixture in the ceiling and wire-nutted/taped to the
leads from the switch. No junction box was used for the connection at the
switch. The wire nuts just sort of hang out in mid-air.

http://d2pbmlo3fglvvr.cloudfront.net..._Jzv-fo5oy.JPG

Cousin It-Always-Made-Me-Nervous Monster

When I was 3 or 4, my father hired someone to put another outlet in my
room. My room was next to my parents' which had a small but walk-in
closet with, for some reason, an outlet. The man drilled a hole
through the wall, used a small plastic plug into the closet outlet,
and lamp cord through the wall and along the baseboard to a surface
mounted outlet. Was this allowed in 1951?

I've been back to the house and seen the inside in 1970, but I didn't
think to check if that outlet is still there. It's on my list of
things to do. (The house itself was in great shape, with AC added
and the main garage door replaced with a decent one, at the time, and
now the oak tree in front of my window is, according to google maps
street view, 60 years bigger than when I lived there. )

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 07:13:01 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/28/2015 1:09 AM, wrote:
You have a poor neutral connection somewhere. Guaranteed.


What happens if it's a bad center tap or
load imbalannce?

I suggest if your guarantee fails, you
need to discuss with IGP what will be
your pentalty. Perhaps donate $100 to
Salvation Army in the name of IGP.
The "poor neutral connection" MAY be in the transformer - but it's
still the neutral. If it's in the transformer the transformer needs to
be replaced to solve the problem because it is either a bad connection
or a burned winding.. It is almost definitely NOT an error in the
initial winding of the transformer.

My guarantee is a 100% money back guarantee. He didn't pay anything
for my opinion. He gets exactly that back if I'm wrong.

And if he proves I am wrong, He will also get my appology.

More than he'd get from many others.

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 9:33:18 AM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:

The light switch in the pantry hasn't changed in 50+ years. It's a
toggle switch like the one linked to below, with zip cord running from
the ceramic light fixture in the ceiling and wire-nutted/taped to the
leads from the switch. No junction box was used for the connection at the
switch. The wire nuts just sort of hang out in mid-air.

http://d2pbmlo3fglvvr.cloudfront.net..._Jzv-fo5oy.JPG

Cousin It-Always-Made-Me-Nervous Monster

I went to a Class A electrician's house in the '70's...he had bare receptacles mounted with nails on the baseboards using lamp cord! He seemed to be a knowledgeable guy otherwise!

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 06:56:54 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 2:09:38 AM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-6, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:32:35 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

I say you're getting 8 volts for free and you shouldn't complain.

If you really can't use them, you might even be able to sell these 8
volts. It's a shame you didn't post before Xmas because that's when
people are spending money, but you probably only lost 20% or so.

If you're in a hurry, or don't want strangers coming to your home,
contact an electricity wholesaler.

There was a time when you could purchase storage containers for excess voltage at any hardware store but the things were pulled off the market for safety reasons because overfilling caused explosions of the containers after owners tampered with the safety devices. ?.?

[8~{} Uncle Punny Monster

The root cause of the overfilling is known as the "ice cream and
mayonnaise syndrome".

Similar to the shrinkage of product container sizes without a
corresponding reduction in price, the excess voltage containers
used to hold up to 10 volts but now only hold 6. People are ignoring
the labeling and trying to stuff more volts into the containers
than will fit, resulting in dangerous voltage leaks.

The current practice is to use electrical tape to try and prevent the
leaks. The inspectors get all amped up about this and are trying to
clamp down on the practice.

Cousin Shrinkage Monster
Actually they still sell them, but they are called rechargeable
batteries - or primary cells - but they have been proven not to work
very well at storing excess alternating current (AC) voltage.

When used contrary to the manufacturer's directions they fail
catastrophically and "let out the magic smoke"

A better alternative is to either "amp up" the low voltage side or
"clamp down" the high voltage side instead of "amping up" the
inspector (who should be wearing high voltage protective gear) or
"clamping down " on the practice - when it sounds like mabee he needs
more practice at his job - - - - -

Grampa Sparky Monster.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 11:04:33 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 07:44:15 -0800 (PST), John G
wrote:


Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The grounds in a sub-panel are not to be terminated on the neutral bar. Remove the green screw and install a separate ground bar in your sub-panel for the grounding conductors.

Did you contact the power company? A problem with one of their lines may be causing the voltage drop.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Is that all you saw ;-)
He doesn't have a voltage "drop" he has a voltage "imballance". His
service voltage is pretty well dead on where it should be at a total
of 117+125=242 volts. Only 1% over spec.

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 10:48:22 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 11:04:33 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 07:44:15 -0800 (PST), John G
wrote:


Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The grounds in a sub-panel are not to be terminated on the neutral bar. Remove the green screw and install a separate ground bar in your sub-panel for the grounding conductors.

Did you contact the power company? A problem with one of their lines may be causing the voltage drop.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Is that all you saw ;-)
He doesn't have a voltage "drop" he has a voltage "imballance". His
service voltage is pretty well dead on where it should be at a total
of 117+125=242 volts. Only 1% over spec.

I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just showed up recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at his power company a call. I called them before when a commercial customer was having a problem and they sent a tech out to install monitoring equipment that showed a problem that was intermittent. It was a problem on a pole a mile away. On another occasion I called them for another customer about an intermittent problem and before the problem was resolved, the transformer feeding the building exploded. Luckily, no one was around when it blew up. Eletwizidy be dainjerus. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster

On 12/28/2015 12:11 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just showed up recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at his power company a call. I called them before when a commercial customer was having a problem and they sent a tech out to install monitoring equipment that showed a problem that was intermittent. It was a problem on a pole a mile away. On another occasion I called them for another customer about an intermittent problem and before the problem was resolved, the transformer feeding the building exploded. Luckily, no one was around when it blew up. Eletwizidy be dainjerus. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster


So, Clare is likely mistaken?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 12/27/2015 10:32 PM, IGot2P wrote:
Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets in my
shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at 125v. Then I
noticed that the difference voltages were on different circuits. Then taking a
look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v would be directly across from
another 125v breaker and the same for the 117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the box and
took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added the voltages to
it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel which is
supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker. I have not taken
time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I find different voltages in
my home also. It is going to be interesting to see if what I am getting from
the street to my home is also different voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a problem
but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

Do the *easy* things, first.
- measure at the *main* panel
- measure at the subpanel (already done)
- open the disconnect at the subpanel and remeasure at the main panel
Assuming this isolates the problem to the subpanel:
- remove individual loads from the subpanel (open breakers) and measure

Take good notes.

You should be able to diagnose the problem just from these observations.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 11:48:25 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 11:04:33 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 07:44:15 -0800 (PST), John G
wrote:


Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets
in my shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at
125v. Then I noticed that the difference voltages were on different
circuits. Then taking a look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v
would be directly across from another 125v breaker and the same for the
117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the
box and took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added
the voltages to it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel
which is supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker.
I have not taken time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I
find different voltages in my home also. It is going to be interesting
to see if what I am getting from the street to my home is also different
voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

The grounds in a sub-panel are not to be terminated on the neutral bar. Remove the green screw and install a separate ground bar in your sub-panel for the grounding conductors.

Did you contact the power company? A problem with one of their lines may be causing the voltage drop.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Is that all you saw ;-)
He doesn't have a voltage "drop" he has a voltage "imballance". His
service voltage is pretty well dead on where it should be at a total
of 117+125=242 volts. Only 1% over spec.

The voltage drop is in the neutral

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:11:44 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just showed up recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at his power company a call. I called them before when a commercial customer was having a problem and they sent a tech out to install monitoring equipment that showed a problem that was intermittent. It was a problem on a pole a mile away.

You are trying to tell us that a PoCo had over a mile of "secondary"
wiring. I don't think so. The transformer that takes the medium
voltage distribution down to the service voltage is usually within a
hundred feet of the service point.
The 120/240 or 120/208 will come from that transformer bundle if it
isn't coming from a customer owned SDS.
I would agree that a problem in their primary could cause bad voltages
but all of them would be bad in the same direction (GIGO)

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:11:44 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just showed up
recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at his power company a
call. I called them before when a commercial customer was having a problem
and they sent a tech out to install monitoring equipment that showed a
problem that was intermittent. It was a problem on a pole a mile away.

You are trying to tell us that a PoCo had over a mile of "secondary"
wiring.

He didn't say that. Perhaps a mile away was their autotransformer.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 11:14:54 -0800, "taxed and spent"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:11:44 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just showed up
recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at his power company a
call. I called them before when a commercial customer was having a problem
and they sent a tech out to install monitoring equipment that showed a
problem that was intermittent. It was a problem on a pole a mile away.

You are trying to tell us that a PoCo had over a mile of "secondary"
wiring.

He didn't say that. Perhaps a mile away was their autotransformer.


We were talking about imbalances in a 120/240. That happens in the
final transformer in the distribution. Everything on the line side of
that will be medium voltage in residential, typically a single phase
and in commercial that will come from the utility right outside or a
customer owned SDS on site.

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 1:09:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:11:44 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just showed up recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at his power company a call. I called them before when a commercial customer was having a problem and they sent a tech out to install monitoring equipment that showed a problem that was intermittent. It was a problem on a pole a mile away.

You are trying to tell us that a PoCo had over a mile of "secondary"
wiring. I don't think so. The transformer that takes the medium
voltage distribution down to the service voltage is usually within a
hundred feet of the service point.
The 120/240 or 120/208 will come from that transformer bundle if it
isn't coming from a customer owned SDS.
I would agree that a problem in their primary could cause bad voltages
but all of them would be bad in the same direction (GIGO)

The problem wasn't with the transformer at the first customer location. The power company rep said they repaired a bad connection on a pole a mile away. Was the rep telling me the truth or just telling me something? The second customer did have the transformer on the pole behind his business blow. I didn't see it but I imagine it was loud and doubt it resembled a 500lb bomb blast. The power company did replace that transformer. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Blast Monster

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 1:15:02 PM UTC-6, taxed and spent wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:11:44 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just showed up
recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at his power company a
call. I called them before when a commercial customer was having a problem
and they sent a tech out to install monitoring equipment that showed a
problem that was intermittent. It was a problem on a pole a mile away.

You are trying to tell us that a PoCo had over a mile of "secondary"
wiring.

He didn't say that. Perhaps a mile away was their autotransformer.

No, the power company rep said it was a connection on a pole a mile away. It was not the transformer behind the business. Was the rep telling the truth? I don't know unless he was just telling me something. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Power Monster

Don Y has brought this to us :
On 12/27/2015 10:32 PM, IGot2P wrote:
Took some time this evening and checked the voltage on several outlets in
my
shop and to my surprise I found several at 117v and several at 125v. Then I
noticed that the difference voltages were on different circuits. Then
taking a
look at the breaker box I noticed that each 125v would be directly across
from
another 125v breaker and the same for the 117v circuits.

Well, that gave me a good clue as to what was happening so I opened the box
and
took a look and checked some voltages. I took a picture, added the voltages
to
it, and uploaded it to one of my domains at
http://www.dongares.com/breaker.html so go and take a look.

As I have previously mentioned in an earlier post this is a sub-panel which
is
supplied from the main panel in my home via a 100 amp breaker. I have not
taken
time to check but I am almost willing to bet that I find different voltages
in
my home also. It is going to be interesting to see if what I am getting
from
the street to my home is also different voltages...how you want to bet?

The home was built in 1993 and these differences have never caused a
problem
but it will still be interesting to see what is actually happening.

Do the *easy* things, first.
- measure at the *main* panel
- measure at the subpanel (already done)
- open the disconnect at the subpanel and remeasure at the main panel
Assuming this isolates the problem to the subpanel:
- remove individual loads from the subpanel (open breakers) and measure

Take good notes.

You should be able to diagnose the problem just from these observations.

It has taken an unbelievable amount of drivel and misinformation to get
down to this simple list of things to do to isolate the problem. :-?

--
John G Sydney.

On 12/28/2015 4:04 PM, John G wrote:
Don Y has brought this to us :

Do the *easy* things, first.
- measure at the *main* panel
- measure at the subpanel (already done)
- open the disconnect at the subpanel and remeasure at the main panel
Assuming this isolates the problem to the subpanel:
- remove individual loads from the subpanel (open breakers) and measure

Take good notes.

You should be able to diagnose the problem just from these observations.

It has taken an unbelievable amount of drivel and misinformation to get down to
this simple list of things to do to isolate the problem. :-?

I am basically lazy. : As I think most folks are. I would rather do
the easy things -- take data and THINK about the problem -- than run
around "try this", etc.

Occam's Razor: chances are, it's something in the subpanel/workshop
and NOT something with the utility -- *or* the main panel (not
counting the subpanel tie-in).

Eliminate the workshop and see if the problem persists. If not, tells
you the problem is *related* to the workshop (though may still manifest
in something else).

Far better to be able to tell an electrician or the utility: "I did
this and this is what I saw" than to just throw a bunch of unrelated
observations at them ("Well, did you try *this*?" "No, but I tried
something (totally unrelated)!")

We had a neighbor around the corner have his metercenter catch fire!
Faulty connection on one of the mains and it just arced it's way into
flames. Likewise, had a vault "explode" (coincidentally, near that
same home!).

I.e., when things start deviating from normal by too much, Bad Things
happen. "You have been warned" ;-)

"Don Y" wrote in message
...
On 12/28/2015 4:04 PM, John G wrote:
Don Y has brought this to us :

Do the *easy* things, first.
- measure at the *main* panel
- measure at the subpanel (already done)
- open the disconnect at the subpanel and remeasure at the main panel
Assuming this isolates the problem to the subpanel:
- remove individual loads from the subpanel (open breakers) and measure

Take good notes.

You should be able to diagnose the problem just from these observations.

It has taken an unbelievable amount of drivel and misinformation to get
down to
this simple list of things to do to isolate the problem. :-?

I am basically lazy. : As I think most folks are. I would rather do
the easy things -- take data and THINK about the problem -- than run
around "try this", etc.

Occam's Razor: chances are, it's something in the subpanel/workshop
and NOT something with the utility -- *or* the main panel (not
counting the subpanel tie-in).

Eliminate the workshop and see if the problem persists. If not, tells
you the problem is *related* to the workshop (though may still manifest
in something else).


Often it is easy to determin if it is a neutral problem. Meter both sides
of the AC. Then with almost everything cut off, plug in a large load such
as a bathroom heat or hair dryer to one side. If the unloaded side changes
voltage it is almost sure to be a neutral problem somewhere.

YOu can do this in the workshop, then move to the house.
If workshop and not house, it is probably your problem, if also at the house
and on the main wires, if the neutral is not loose at the box, probably the
power company problem

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 18:51:14 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Don Y" wrote in message
...
On 12/28/2015 4:04 PM, John G wrote:
Don Y has brought this to us :

Do the *easy* things, first.
- measure at the *main* panel
- measure at the subpanel (already done)
- open the disconnect at the subpanel and remeasure at the main panel
Assuming this isolates the problem to the subpanel:
- remove individual loads from the subpanel (open breakers) and measure

Take good notes.

You should be able to diagnose the problem just from these observations.

It has taken an unbelievable amount of drivel and misinformation to get
down to
this simple list of things to do to isolate the problem. :-?

I am basically lazy. : As I think most folks are. I would rather do
the easy things -- take data and THINK about the problem -- than run
around "try this", etc.

Occam's Razor: chances are, it's something in the subpanel/workshop
and NOT something with the utility -- *or* the main panel (not
counting the subpanel tie-in).

Eliminate the workshop and see if the problem persists. If not, tells
you the problem is *related* to the workshop (though may still manifest
in something else).


Often it is easy to determin if it is a neutral problem. Meter both sides
of the AC. Then with almost everything cut off, plug in a large load such
as a bathroom heat or hair dryer to one side. If the unloaded side changes
voltage it is almost sure to be a neutral problem somewhere.

YOu can do this in the workshop, then move to the house.
If workshop and not house, it is probably your problem, if also at the house
and on the main wires, if the neutral is not loose at the box, probably the
power company problem



Generally speaking, checking at the service disconnect is about as far
as you can go because everything on the line side of that is sealed by
the PoCo. They will generally fix anything on that side for free, just
to keep you out of the metering equipment. Obviously if they determine
it is on the line side of the service point (typically the crimps on
the drop or the transformer connection on a service lateral), it is
their baby anyway.

On 12/28/2015 5:56 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 18:51:14 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Don Y" wrote in message
...
On 12/28/2015 4:04 PM, John G wrote:
Don Y has brought this to us :

Do the *easy* things, first.
- measure at the *main* panel
- measure at the subpanel (already done)
- open the disconnect at the subpanel and remeasure at the main panel
Assuming this isolates the problem to the subpanel:
- remove individual loads from the subpanel (open breakers) and measure

Take good notes.

You should be able to diagnose the problem just from these observations.

It has taken an unbelievable amount of drivel and misinformation to get
down to
this simple list of things to do to isolate the problem. :-?

I am basically lazy. : As I think most folks are. I would rather do
the easy things -- take data and THINK about the problem -- than run
around "try this", etc.

Occam's Razor: chances are, it's something in the subpanel/workshop
and NOT something with the utility -- *or* the main panel (not
counting the subpanel tie-in).

Eliminate the workshop and see if the problem persists. If not, tells
you the problem is *related* to the workshop (though may still manifest
in something else).


Often it is easy to determin if it is a neutral problem. Meter both sides
of the AC. Then with almost everything cut off, plug in a large load such
as a bathroom heat or hair dryer to one side. If the unloaded side changes
voltage it is almost sure to be a neutral problem somewhere.

YOu can do this in the workshop, then move to the house.
If workshop and not house, it is probably your problem, if also at the house
and on the main wires, if the neutral is not loose at the box, probably the
power company problem



Generally speaking, checking at the service disconnect is about as far
as you can go because everything on the line side of that is sealed by
the PoCo. They will generally fix anything on that side for free, just
to keep you out of the metering equipment. Obviously if they determine
it is on the line side of the service point (typically the crimps on
the drop or the transformer connection on a service lateral), it is
their baby anyway.

Okay, to the few who have stayed on subject...first I checked most of
the outlets in the house and they all read in the 122v range. I then
opened the house breaker box and both sides coming in read 122.7v. I
also checked the voltage coming out of the breaker that goes to the shop
and they also read 122.7. I also tightened all three wires down that go
to the shop (actually none were loose). I THINK that this tells me that
the problem is in the shop but we are currently in the middle of a
rain/sleet/snow storm here in the Midwest so I am no going back out to
the shop to look in that box again tonight. In fact, we were totally
without power part of this afternoon...the ice probably took a limb down
over a line.

Thanks for all of the help and let me know if you agree that the problem
is in the shop.

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 4:38:32 PM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 1:09:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:11:44 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just showed up recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at his power company a call. I called them before when a commercial customer was having a problem and they sent a tech out to install monitoring equipment that showed a problem that was intermittent. It was a problem on a pole a mile away.

You are trying to tell us that a PoCo had over a mile of "secondary"
wiring. I don't think so. The transformer that takes the medium
voltage distribution down to the service voltage is usually within a
hundred feet of the service point.
The 120/240 or 120/208 will come from that transformer bundle if it
isn't coming from a customer owned SDS.
I would agree that a problem in their primary could cause bad voltages
but all of them would be bad in the same direction (GIGO)

The problem wasn't with the transformer at the first customer location. The power company rep said they repaired a bad connection on a pole a mile away. Was the rep telling me the truth or just telling me something? The second customer did have the transformer on the pole behind his business blow. I didn't see it but I imagine it was loud and doubt it resembled a 500lb bomb blast. The power company did replace that transformer. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Blast Monster

I agree with Gfre. A line problem a mile away can cause problems,
but it can't cause the problem this poster is having. His problem
is between his house and the transformer. And the stepdown transformer
is typically within a few hundred feet.

The obvious thing to do here is verify that the imbalance exists
at the service feed at the panel and if so, then call the power
company.

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 6:26:30 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
On 12/28/2015 4:04 PM, John G wrote:
Don Y has brought this to us :

Do the *easy* things, first.
- measure at the *main* panel
- measure at the subpanel (already done)
- open the disconnect at the subpanel and remeasure at the main panel
Assuming this isolates the problem to the subpanel:
- remove individual loads from the subpanel (open breakers) and measure

Take good notes.

You should be able to diagnose the problem just from these observations.

It has taken an unbelievable amount of drivel and misinformation to get down to
this simple list of things to do to isolate the problem. :-?

I am basically lazy. : As I think most folks are. I would rather do
the easy things -- take data and THINK about the problem -- than run
around "try this", etc.


Given that you have an imbalance at the subpanel, the obvious and easy
next step is see if the imbalance exists at the service feed to the
main panel. If it does, then call the power company.




Occam's Razor: chances are, it's something in the subpanel/workshop
and NOT something with the utility -- *or* the main panel (not
counting the subpanel tie-in).

Eliminate the workshop and see if the problem persists. If not, tells
you the problem is *related* to the workshop (though may still manifest
in something else).

Far better to be able to tell an electrician or the utility: "I did
this and this is what I saw" than to just throw a bunch of unrelated
observations at them ("Well, did you try *this*?" "No, but I tried
something (totally unrelated)!")

We had a neighbor around the corner have his metercenter catch fire!
Faulty connection on one of the mains and it just arced it's way into
flames. Likewise, had a vault "explode" (coincidentally, near that
same home!).

I.e., when things start deviating from normal by too much, Bad Things
happen. "You have been warned" ;-)

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 18:24:50 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

On 12/28/2015 5:56 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 18:51:14 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Don Y" wrote in message
...
On 12/28/2015 4:04 PM, John G wrote:
Don Y has brought this to us :

Do the *easy* things, first.
- measure at the *main* panel
- measure at the subpanel (already done)
- open the disconnect at the subpanel and remeasure at the main panel
Assuming this isolates the problem to the subpanel:
- remove individual loads from the subpanel (open breakers) and measure

Take good notes.

You should be able to diagnose the problem just from these observations.

It has taken an unbelievable amount of drivel and misinformation to get
down to
this simple list of things to do to isolate the problem. :-?

I am basically lazy. : As I think most folks are. I would rather do
the easy things -- take data and THINK about the problem -- than run
around "try this", etc.

Occam's Razor: chances are, it's something in the subpanel/workshop
and NOT something with the utility -- *or* the main panel (not
counting the subpanel tie-in).

Eliminate the workshop and see if the problem persists. If not, tells
you the problem is *related* to the workshop (though may still manifest
in something else).


Often it is easy to determin if it is a neutral problem. Meter both sides
of the AC. Then with almost everything cut off, plug in a large load such
as a bathroom heat or hair dryer to one side. If the unloaded side changes
voltage it is almost sure to be a neutral problem somewhere.

YOu can do this in the workshop, then move to the house.
If workshop and not house, it is probably your problem, if also at the house
and on the main wires, if the neutral is not loose at the box, probably the
power company problem



Generally speaking, checking at the service disconnect is about as far
as you can go because everything on the line side of that is sealed by
the PoCo. They will generally fix anything on that side for free, just
to keep you out of the metering equipment. Obviously if they determine
it is on the line side of the service point (typically the crimps on
the drop or the transformer connection on a service lateral), it is
their baby anyway.

Okay, to the few who have stayed on subject...first I checked most of
the outlets in the house and they all read in the 122v range. I then
opened the house breaker box and both sides coming in read 122.7v. I
also checked the voltage coming out of the breaker that goes to the shop
and they also read 122.7. I also tightened all three wires down that go
to the shop (actually none were loose). I THINK that this tells me that
the problem is in the shop but we are currently in the middle of a
rain/sleet/snow storm here in the Midwest so I am no going back out to
the shop to look in that box again tonight. In fact, we were totally
without power part of this afternoon...the ice probably took a limb down
over a line.

Thanks for all of the help and let me know if you agree that the problem
is in the shop.

You have determined that it is in the neutral in the feeder. It might
even be worth disconnecting it AFTER YOU TRIP THE BREAKER for that
feeder and examine both ends of the wire for corrosion etc.
Then examine the lug and reinstall it.

I also did not notice a ground rod connection at the shop end. If you
are setting the "way back" machine to a time when 3 wire feeders to
additional buildings, you were still required to drive a rod. With
that much of a voltage drop in your neutral, you are putting voltage
on the case of all of your equipment.
A ground electrode will mitigate that a bit.
If you really want to address the violations you can also separate the
wires on the ground bus (one for each screw) you have plenty of
spares. You can double or triple up the grounds in most panels but not
the neutrals. They need their own screw.
What size wire is that feeder?

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 11:14:54 -0800, "taxed and spent"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:11:44 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just showed up
recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at his power company a
call. I called them before when a commercial customer was having a
problem
and they sent a tech out to install monitoring equipment that showed a
problem that was intermittent. It was a problem on a pole a mile away.

You are trying to tell us that a PoCo had over a mile of "secondary"
wiring.

He didn't say that. Perhaps a mile away was their autotransformer.


We were talking about imbalances in a 120/240. That happens in the
final transformer in the distribution. Everything on the line side of
that will be medium voltage in residential, typically a single phase
and in commercial that will come from the utility right outside or a
customer owned SDS on site.

A secondary network may be formed with many transformers feeding into a
common bus at the utilization voltage. So, a problem a bit distant from the
home can cause a problem.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 05:09:37 -0800, "taxed and spent"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 11:14:54 -0800, "taxed and spent"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:11:44 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
wrote:

I was thinking if this problem or voltage difference just showed up
recently, it's time he gave the engineering dept at his power company a
call. I called them before when a commercial customer was having a
problem
and they sent a tech out to install monitoring equipment that showed a
problem that was intermittent. It was a problem on a pole a mile away.

You are trying to tell us that a PoCo had over a mile of "secondary"
wiring.

He didn't say that. Perhaps a mile away was their autotransformer.


We were talking about imbalances in a 120/240. That happens in the
final transformer in the distribution. Everything on the line side of
that will be medium voltage in residential, typically a single phase
and in commercial that will come from the utility right outside or a
customer owned SDS on site.

A secondary network may be formed with many transformers feeding into a
common bus at the utilization voltage. So, a problem a bit distant from the
home can cause a problem.

Where do they do that?
We have something that might look like that when it first meets the
eye. This is the middle transformer, of 3, in what looks like a
continuous bus that serves 11 houses but if you look carefully, that
dog bone on the 2 ungrounded conductors is an insulator so that "bus"
is actually 3 separate segments on 3 transformers.
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/transformer.jpg
It happens when there were 2 customers, fairly far apart served from
one transformer and then the houses start filling in.

On 12/28/2015 6:24 PM, IGot2P wrote:
....

opened the house breaker box and both sides coming in read 122.7v. I
also checked the voltage coming out of the breaker that goes to the shop
and they also read 122.7. I also tightened all three wires down that go
to the shop (actually none were loose). ...


Thanks for all of the help and let me know if you agree that the problem
is in the shop.

You've isolated to you do not have an imbalance at one end of a wire and
do at the other end...that's pretty clear evidence it's in the feeder or
the connections there.

How did you run the feed line; possible you got a knick in insulation
and are seeing moisture shunting effect in a buried line?

Of course, as gfretwell says, make the simple connection check first.

And, of course, there's still the issues regarding shared commons and
grounds, building ground for the shop, etc., etc., ...

--

On 12/29/2015 11:12 AM, dpb wrote:
....

You've isolated to you do not have an imbalance at one end of a wire and
do at the other end...that's pretty clear evidence it's in the feeder or
the connections there.
...

And, if you cut off everything inside that box and the imbalance doesn't
go away, you've proven it's in either the feeder itself or the
connections, not a large imbalance in load in the box (altho that's
pretty well proven already; you can just conclusively demonstrate it to
yourself if there's no load and still and imbalance it's gotta' be
either the feeder is damaged or the connections).

--