Approximately 8 years ago I built (with the help of a contractor) a
1,200 sq. ft. shop detached from our home (nice shop with central heat
and air, half bath, hot water, etc.).

Our home has a 200 amp box so I simply put in a 100 amp breaker and run
it to a sub panel in the new shop which has a 100 amp breaker box.
Everything in both the shop and house has worked fine since the
beginning and still does but I did find something somewhat unique.

I have one item in the shop that draws 23+ amps on a 115 volt circuit
and to my surprise had never popped a 20 amp circuit breaker. All
outlets and lights are wired with #12 wire so I know that 23+ amps is a
bit too much but so be it. Well, I moved the item a small amount and
happened to plug it into a different outlet which happened to be on a
different breaker and it popped the breaker after running for about 20
minutes. Tried it again and the same thing happened. Out of curiosity I
checked the voltage and that particular circuit (the one that the
breaker pops on) has 125 volts and all of the others run in the 115/117
range.

Anyone have a clue of how this could happen when they are all coming out
of the same box and are approximately the same distance from the box?

BTW - if you intended reply contains the word "code" or "insurance"
please don't post as it has nothing to do with my question.

On Friday, December 25, 2015 at 9:31:41 PM UTC-6, IGot2P wrote:
Approximately 8 years ago I built (with the help of a contractor) a
1,200 sq. ft. shop detached from our home (nice shop with central heat
and air, half bath, hot water, etc.).

Our home has a 200 amp box so I simply put in a 100 amp breaker and run
it to a sub panel in the new shop which has a 100 amp breaker box.
Everything in both the shop and house has worked fine since the
beginning and still does but I did find something somewhat unique.

I have one item in the shop that draws 23+ amps on a 115 volt circuit
and to my surprise had never popped a 20 amp circuit breaker. All
outlets and lights are wired with #12 wire so I know that 23+ amps is a
bit too much but so be it. Well, I moved the item a small amount and
happened to plug it into a different outlet which happened to be on a
different breaker and it popped the breaker after running for about 20
minutes. Tried it again and the same thing happened. Out of curiosity I
checked the voltage and that particular circuit (the one that the
breaker pops on) has 125 volts and all of the others run in the 115/117
range.

Anyone have a clue of how this could happen when they are all coming out
of the same box and are approximately the same distance from the box?

BTW - if you intended reply contains the word "code" or "insurance"
please don't post as it has nothing to do with my question.

You most likely have a slight difference on each side of the 230 volt panel. Like the center-tapped 115 volt is not exact. No biggie.

On 12/25/2015 8:31 PM, IGot2P wrote:
Approximately 8 years ago I built (with the help of a contractor) a 1,200 sq.
ft. shop detached from our home (nice shop with central heat and air, half
bath, hot water, etc.).

Our home has a 200 amp box so I simply put in a 100 amp breaker and run it to a
sub panel in the new shop which has a 100 amp breaker box. Everything in both
the shop and house has worked fine since the beginning and still does but I did
find something somewhat unique.

I have one item in the shop that draws 23+ amps on a 115 volt circuit and to my
surprise had never popped a 20 amp circuit breaker. All outlets and lights are
wired with #12 wire so I know that 23+ amps is a bit too much but so be it.
Well, I moved the item a small amount and happened to plug it into a different
outlet which happened to be on a different breaker and it popped the breaker
after running for about 20 minutes. Tried it again and the same thing happened.
Out of curiosity I checked the voltage and that particular circuit (the one
that the breaker pops on) has 125 volts and all of the others run in the
115/117 range.

Anyone have a clue of how this could happen when they are all coming out of the
same box and are approximately the same distance from the box?

Not without your further clarifying the conditions under which you
are obtaining these measurements!

BTW - if you intended reply contains the word "code" or "insurance" please
don't post as it has nothing to do with my question.

How, where and UNDER HAT CONDITIONS are you measuring the potential?
Have you also looked at the line at the "supply end"?

Wasn't this question asked (and answered) previously?

On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 21:31:36 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

Approximately 8 years ago I built (with the help of a contractor) a
1,200 sq. ft. shop detached from our home (nice shop with central heat
and air, half bath, hot water, etc.).

Our home has a 200 amp box so I simply put in a 100 amp breaker and run
it to a sub panel in the new shop which has a 100 amp breaker box.
Everything in both the shop and house has worked fine since the
beginning and still does but I did find something somewhat unique.

I have one item in the shop that draws 23+ amps on a 115 volt circuit
and to my surprise had never popped a 20 amp circuit breaker. All
outlets and lights are wired with #12 wire so I know that 23+ amps is a
bit too much but so be it. Well, I moved the item a small amount and
happened to plug it into a different outlet which happened to be on a
different breaker and it popped the breaker after running for about 20
minutes. Tried it again and the same thing happened. Out of curiosity I
checked the voltage and that particular circuit (the one that the
breaker pops on) has 125 volts and all of the others run in the 115/117
range.

Anyone have a clue of how this could happen when they are all coming out
of the same box and are approximately the same distance from the box?

BTW - if you intended reply contains the word "code" or "insurance"
please don't post as it has nothing to do with my question.




Both circuits on the same "leg" of the service, or?

If one leg is higher than the other, there is likely a neutral problem
somewhere and a load inballance.

On 12/25/2015 10:31 PM, IGot2P wrote:
Approximately 8 years ago I built (with the help of a contractor) a 1,200 sq. ft. shop detached from our home (nice shop with central heat and
air, half bath, hot water, etc.).

Our home has a 200 amp box so I simply put in a 100 amp breaker and run it to a sub panel in the new shop which has a 100 amp breaker box.
Everything in both the shop and house has worked fine since the beginning and still does but I did find something somewhat unique.

I have one item in the shop that draws 23+ amps on a 115 volt circuit and to my surprise had never popped a 20 amp circuit breaker. All outlets
and lights are wired with #12 wire so I know that 23+ amps is a bit too much but so be it. Well, I moved the item a small amount and happened to
plug it into a different outlet which happened to be on a different breaker and it popped the breaker after running for about 20 minutes. Tried
it again and the same thing happened. Out of curiosity I checked the voltage and that particular circuit (the one that the breaker pops on) has
125 volts and all of the others run in the 115/117 range.

Anyone have a clue of how this could happen when they are all coming out of the same box and are approximately the same distance from the box?

BTW - if you intended reply contains the word "code" or "insurance" please don't post as it has nothing to do with my question.

Since you don't seem concerned about safety, codes or insurance, wire the ****ing circuit direct to the buss. You think I give a **** about idiots?

On 12/25/2015 10:28 PM, Wild Bill wrote:
On 12/25/2015 10:31 PM, IGot2P wrote:
Approximately 8 years ago I built (with the help of a contractor) a
1,200 sq. ft. shop detached from our home (nice shop with central heat
and
air, half bath, hot water, etc.).

Our home has a 200 amp box so I simply put in a 100 amp breaker and
run it to a sub panel in the new shop which has a 100 amp breaker box.
Everything in both the shop and house has worked fine since the
beginning and still does but I did find something somewhat unique.

I have one item in the shop that draws 23+ amps on a 115 volt circuit
and to my surprise had never popped a 20 amp circuit breaker. All outlets
and lights are wired with #12 wire so I know that 23+ amps is a bit
too much but so be it. Well, I moved the item a small amount and
happened to
plug it into a different outlet which happened to be on a different
breaker and it popped the breaker after running for about 20 minutes.
Tried
it again and the same thing happened. Out of curiosity I checked the
voltage and that particular circuit (the one that the breaker pops on)
has
125 volts and all of the others run in the 115/117 range.

Anyone have a clue of how this could happen when they are all coming
out of the same box and are approximately the same distance from the box?

BTW - if you intended reply contains the word "code" or "insurance"
please don't post as it has nothing to do with my question.

Since you don't seem concerned about safety, codes or insurance, wire
the ****ing circuit direct to the buss. You think I give a **** about
idiots?

You must, you answered and you used both words that I asked you not
to...obviously have a problem reading.

On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 23:40:36 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

On 12/25/2015 10:28 PM, Wild Bill wrote:
On 12/25/2015 10:31 PM, IGot2P wrote:
Approximately 8 years ago I built (with the help of a contractor) a
1,200 sq. ft. shop detached from our home (nice shop with central heat
and
air, half bath, hot water, etc.).

Our home has a 200 amp box so I simply put in a 100 amp breaker and
run it to a sub panel in the new shop which has a 100 amp breaker box.
Everything in both the shop and house has worked fine since the
beginning and still does but I did find something somewhat unique.

I have one item in the shop that draws 23+ amps on a 115 volt circuit
and to my surprise had never popped a 20 amp circuit breaker. All outlets
and lights are wired with #12 wire so I know that 23+ amps is a bit
too much but so be it. Well, I moved the item a small amount and
happened to
plug it into a different outlet which happened to be on a different
breaker and it popped the breaker after running for about 20 minutes.
Tried
it again and the same thing happened. Out of curiosity I checked the
voltage and that particular circuit (the one that the breaker pops on)
has
125 volts and all of the others run in the 115/117 range.

Anyone have a clue of how this could happen when they are all coming
out of the same box and are approximately the same distance from the box?

BTW - if you intended reply contains the word "code" or "insurance"
please don't post as it has nothing to do with my question.



Clare pegged it, You haver a loose neutral. Try checking it at the
main lugs. If it is bad there call the PoCo. If it is bad at your sub,
investigate your neutral connections or look for a serious load
imbalance.

On Friday, December 25, 2015 at 11:58:33 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 23:40:36 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

On 12/25/2015 10:28 PM, Wild Bill wrote:
On 12/25/2015 10:31 PM, IGot2P wrote:
Approximately 8 years ago I built (with the help of a contractor) a
1,200 sq. ft. shop detached from our home (nice shop with central heat
and
air, half bath, hot water, etc.).

Our home has a 200 amp box so I simply put in a 100 amp breaker and
run it to a sub panel in the new shop which has a 100 amp breaker box..
Everything in both the shop and house has worked fine since the
beginning and still does but I did find something somewhat unique.

I have one item in the shop that draws 23+ amps on a 115 volt circuit
and to my surprise had never popped a 20 amp circuit breaker. All outlets
and lights are wired with #12 wire so I know that 23+ amps is a bit
too much but so be it. Well, I moved the item a small amount and
happened to
plug it into a different outlet which happened to be on a different
breaker and it popped the breaker after running for about 20 minutes.
Tried
it again and the same thing happened. Out of curiosity I checked the
voltage and that particular circuit (the one that the breaker pops on)
has
125 volts and all of the others run in the 115/117 range.

Anyone have a clue of how this could happen when they are all coming
out of the same box and are approximately the same distance from the box?

BTW - if you intended reply contains the word "code" or "insurance"
please don't post as it has nothing to do with my question.

Clare pegged it, You haver a loose neutral. Try checking it at the
main lugs. If it is bad there call the PoCo. If it is bad at your sub,
investigate your neutral connections or look for a serious load
imbalance.

It could also be a loose nut at the wheel. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[8~{} Uncle Loose Monster

On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 00:58:19 -0500, wrote:

Clare pegged it, You haver a loose neutral. Try checking it at the
main lugs. If it is bad there call the PoCo. If it is bad at your sub,
investigate your neutral connections or look for a serious load
imbalance.

It's possible there is a neutral problem, but you could just have a pole
transformer that is not exactly center tapped. There could also be some
load on one leg, pulling down the voltage. Measure the voltage at the
MAINS on both legs with everything turned on. Then do it again with
everything turned Off.

If it's still unbalanced with everything OFF, it's just a transformer
that's a little unbalanced. Not to be worried about, if that's all it
is.

You did not say what the device is, which is using 23A, but you'd be
wise to run #10 wire and use a 30A breaker for that device. It would
help of we knew what it is, because a motor load can vary from when it
starts up to when it's running, while a resistive load, such as a
heating device has a pretty continuous power draw.

And if it's something like an air compressor, they can use a bit more
current after the tank gets full, causing a heavier load on the motor
(and when it starts in cold weather). I had to repair some air
compressor wiring for a guy who said in the summer it worked fine, but
in cold weather, it tripped the breaker. It was obvious that the cold
compressor would not allow the motor to get up to full speed when it
first started. The solution was to either move the compressor into a
heated space, or use a bigger motor and upgrade the wiring to a heavier
gauge wire and bigger breaker. A motor was costly, and the wiring
upgrade even more money. He said he could not afford to heat his garage
all the time. I suggested moving the compressor to his basement and just
running a longer air hose to his garage thru a small piece of pipe in
his foundation, and cauking around it, or even putting an air chuck on
the foundation wall.

He decided to move the compressor to the basement, so all I had to do
was run a dedicated outlet for it from his panel. He said he's buy more
air hose and just stick it thru a basement window because it was just
for occasional flat tires.

On Friday, December 25, 2015 at 10:31:41 PM UTC-5, IGot2P wrote:
Approximately 8 years ago I built (with the help of a contractor) a
1,200 sq. ft. shop detached from our home (nice shop with central heat
and air, half bath, hot water, etc.).

Our home has a 200 amp box so I simply put in a 100 amp breaker and run
it to a sub panel in the new shop which has a 100 amp breaker box.
Everything in both the shop and house has worked fine since the
beginning and still does but I did find something somewhat unique.

I have one item in the shop that draws 23+ amps on a 115 volt circuit
and to my surprise had never popped a 20 amp circuit breaker. All
outlets and lights are wired with #12 wire so I know that 23+ amps is a
bit too much but so be it. Well, I moved the item a small amount and
happened to plug it into a different outlet which happened to be on a
different breaker and it popped the breaker after running for about 20
minutes. Tried it again and the same thing happened. Out of curiosity I
checked the voltage and that particular circuit (the one that the
breaker pops on) has 125 volts and all of the others run in the 115/117
range.

Anyone have a clue of how this could happen when they are all coming out
of the same box and are approximately the same distance from the box?

BTW - if you intended reply contains the word "code" or "insurance"
please don't post as it has nothing to do with my question.

te breaker that trips may have tripped a lot in its past, and be worn. for lack of a better term.

i would first try replacing the breaker that trips

On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 02:21:46 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

te breaker that trips may have tripped a lot in its past, and be worn.
for lack of a better term.

i would first try replacing the breaker that trips

Yea, and the breaker that DOES NOT trip could be defective or even
internally seized up, which is dangerous. I'd also try replacing that
one too, and see if the new breaker trips in the same panel location.

On Friday, December 25, 2015 at 10:48:18 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
On 12/25/2015 8:31 PM, IGot2P wrote:
Approximately 8 years ago I built (with the help of a contractor) a 1,200 sq.
ft. shop detached from our home (nice shop with central heat and air, half
bath, hot water, etc.).

Our home has a 200 amp box so I simply put in a 100 amp breaker and run it to a
sub panel in the new shop which has a 100 amp breaker box. Everything in both
the shop and house has worked fine since the beginning and still does but I did
find something somewhat unique.

I have one item in the shop that draws 23+ amps on a 115 volt circuit and to my
surprise had never popped a 20 amp circuit breaker. All outlets and lights are
wired with #12 wire so I know that 23+ amps is a bit too much but so be it.
Well, I moved the item a small amount and happened to plug it into a different
outlet which happened to be on a different breaker and it popped the breaker
after running for about 20 minutes. Tried it again and the same thing happened.
Out of curiosity I checked the voltage and that particular circuit (the one
that the breaker pops on) has 125 volts and all of the others run in the
115/117 range.

Anyone have a clue of how this could happen when they are all coming out of the
same box and are approximately the same distance from the box?

Not without your further clarifying the conditions under which you
are obtaining these measurements!


+1

If it's with no load, then it would suggest a possible problem with
a bad neutral connection. If it's with substantial load, then it
could be normal.

On 12/25/2015 9:31 PM, IGot2P wrote:

We can solve this through the process of elimination,
Is there an Amish heater on the same circuit?, push 1 for yes or 2 for No
If you selected 1, unplug the Amish heater and set it by the curb
If you selected 2, unplug the Amish heater and set it by the curb

On 12/25/2015 10:31 PM, IGot2P wrote:
Approximately 8 years ago I built (with the help of a contractor) a 1,200 sq. ft. shop detached from our home (nice shop with central heat and air, half bath, hot water, etc.).

Our home has a 200 amp box so I simply put in a 100 amp breaker and run it to a sub panel in the new shop which has a 100 amp breaker box. Everything in both the shop and house has worked fine since the beginning and still does but I did find something
somewhat unique.

I have one item in the shop that draws 23+ amps on a 115 volt circuit and to my surprise had never popped a 20 amp circuit breaker. All outlets and lights are wired with #12 wire so I know that 23+ amps is a bit too much but so be it. Well, I moved the
item a small amount and happened to plug it into a different outlet which happened to be on a different breaker and it popped the breaker after running for about 20 minutes. Tried it again and the same thing happened. Out of curiosity I checked the
voltage and that particular circuit (the one that the breaker pops on) has 125 volts and all of the others run in the 115/117 range.

Anyone have a clue of how this could happen when they are all coming out of the same box and are approximately the same distance from the box?

BTW - if you intended reply contains the word "code" or "insurance" please don't post as it has nothing to do with my question.


Forget the jack-leg hacks, a 23 amp tool needs a proper circuit.
Upgrade your system to meet all NEC regulations. (This will keep your fire and casuality company happy.)

Do it right. Run a new circuit with a 30 amp breaker, #10 copper and use a 30 amp receptacle.

Approximately 8 years ago I built (with the help of a contractor) a
1,200 sq. ft. shop detached from our home (nice shop with central heat
and air, half bath, hot water, etc.).

Our home has a 200 amp box so I simply put in a 100 amp breaker and run
it to a sub panel in the new shop which has a 100 amp breaker box.
Everything in both the shop and house has worked fine since the
beginning and still does but I did find something somewhat unique.

I have one item in the shop that draws 23+ amps on a 115 volt circuit
and to my surprise had never popped a 20 amp circuit breaker. All
outlets and lights are wired with #12 wire so I know that 23+ amps is a
bit too much but so be it. Well, I moved the item a small amount and
happened to plug it into a different outlet which happened to be on a
different breaker and it popped the breaker after running for about 20
minutes. Tried it again and the same thing happened. Out of curiosity I
checked the voltage and that particular circuit (the one that the
breaker pops on) has 125 volts and all of the others run in the 115/117
range.

Anyone have a clue of how this could happen when they are all coming out
of the same box and are approximately the same distance from the box?

BTW - if you intended reply contains the word "code" or "insurance"
please don't post as it has nothing to do with my question.

Call your power company and have them check the service drop to your house. A bad connection could cause some voltage drop.

On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 03:59:28 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 00:58:19 -0500, wrote:

Clare pegged it, You haver a loose neutral. Try checking it at the
main lugs. If it is bad there call the PoCo. If it is bad at your sub,
investigate your neutral connections or look for a serious load
imbalance.

It's possible there is a neutral problem, but you could just have a pole
transformer that is not exactly center tapped. There could also be some
load on one leg, pulling down the voltage. Measure the voltage at the
MAINS on both legs with everything turned on. Then do it again with
everything turned Off.

If it's still unbalanced with everything OFF, it's just a transformer
that's a little unbalanced. Not to be worried about, if that's all it
is.


Huh?
They don't arbitrarily "center tap" the transformer wherever they
want,. It is wound at the factory and it will be tapped exactly at the
center.
This looks more like a 5-6% voltage drop in the neutral.
That is far beyond the NEC recommendation and the utility standard.

On 12/26/2015 10:31 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 03:59:28 -0600, wrote:

If it's still unbalanced with everything OFF, it's just a transformer
that's a little unbalanced. Not to be worried about, if that's all it
is.


Huh?
They don't arbitrarily "center tap" the transformer wherever they
want,. It is wound at the factory and it will be tapped exactly at the
center.
This looks more like a 5-6% voltage drop in the neutral.
That is far beyond the NEC recommendation and the utility standard.


Sounds like it's not to code, and will affect
the OP's insurance?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 10:53:16 -0500
Stormin Mormon wrote:

Sounds like it's not to code, and will affect
the OP's insurance?

How? You gonna go tell on him?

Why don't you go to Africa and tend the "poor"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

One circuit 125V, others 117V, why?

Because of the 3 Phase Some have Different Voltages
Every Phase have his own Voltage

- --


Chat / Irc irc://gallaxial.com:6667/general
Come With Friends of same interest

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On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 10:02:51 AM UTC-6, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 10:53:16 -0500
Stormin Mormon wrote:

Sounds like it's not to code, and will affect
the OP's insurance?

How? You gonna go tell on him?

Why don't you go to Africa and tend the "poor"

+1

On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 10:02:51 AM UTC-6, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 10:53:16 -0500
Stormin Mormon wrote:

Sounds like it's not to code, and will affect
the OP's insurance?

How? You gonna go tell on him?

Why don't you go to Africa and tend the "poor"

Lead by example and others will follow. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Leading Monster

Our home has a 200 amp box so I simply put in a 100 amp breaker and run
it to a sub panel in the new shop which has a 100 amp breaker box.

Did you install a double-pole breaker and run four wires to the subpanel
for 240volts?

Or is this a single pole breaker, three wires, and only 120volts
available at the subpanel?

I have one item in the shop that draws 23+ amps on a 115 volt circuit
and to my surprise had never popped a 20 amp circuit breaker.

If you know the device is drawing more than 20amps, you should really
install 10 gauge wire and a 30amp breaker. Just because the breaker isn't
tripping doesn't mean it is safe to do.

That said, things with motors often use a lot more power when they first
start up, but the draw drops once the motor is running. Startup current
usually won't trip a breaker and won't cause any harm since it's a short
duration.

I moved the item a small amount and happened to plug it into a
different outlet which happened to be on a different breaker and
it popped the breaker after running for about 20 minutes.

The first breaker is probably defective, allowing you to draw more
current than it is supposed to.

Out of curiosity I checked the voltage and that particular circuit
(the one that the breaker pops on) has 125 volts and all of the others
run in the 115/117 range.

You have a voltage drop somewhere. Unplug everything and check the
voltages again. You may have something else loading down the other
circuits.

If you still see the voltage difference, open up the breaker panel and
measure the voltages there. If they're all the same, you probably have a
bad connection somewhere between the panel and outlets.

If it's a 240 volt panel (two hot leads coming in), check both halves of
the panel. If the voltages are different between the two phases, the
problem lies somewhere between the main panel and the subpanel. Could be
the connections, could be the 100amp breaker back at the main panel,
could be the wiring between the two.

Check the voltages back at the main panel to see if they are the same
there. If the voltage is signficantly different on the two hot leads
coming into your main panel, you should call your power company.

Good luck,

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 09:06:51 -0800 (PST)
Uncle Monster wrote:

On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 10:02:51 AM UTC-6, burfordTjustice
wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 10:53:16 -0500
Stormin Mormon wrote:

Sounds like it's not to code, and will affect
the OP's insurance?

How? You gonna go tell on him?

Why don't you go to Africa and tend the "poor"

Lead by example and others will follow. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Leading Monster

Unlike you (apparently) and the Jesus freak with 5
wives and door knocker I don't give a rats ass
about the poor in Africa. Their leaders don't
why should I??
I tend to me and mine the rest can get a job or
die makes no difference to me.

On 12/26/2015 3:59 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 00:58:19 -0500, wrote:

Clare pegged it, You haver a loose neutral. Try checking it at the
main lugs. If it is bad there call the PoCo. If it is bad at your sub,
investigate your neutral connections or look for a serious load
imbalance.

It's possible there is a neutral problem, but you could just have a pole
transformer that is not exactly center tapped. There could also be some
load on one leg, pulling down the voltage. Measure the voltage at the
MAINS on both legs with everything turned on. Then do it again with
everything turned Off.

If it's still unbalanced with everything OFF, it's just a transformer
that's a little unbalanced. Not to be worried about, if that's all it
is.

You did not say what the device is, which is using 23A, but you'd be
wise to run #10 wire and use a 30A breaker for that device. It would
help of we knew what it is, because a motor load can vary from when it
starts up to when it's running, while a resistive load, such as a
heating device has a pretty continuous power draw.

A 24 bulb tanning bed and each bulb is 110 watts. Kilowatt meter shows
it drawing 23.6 amps. Only motors are two very small muffin type fan motors.

On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 12:18:18 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

On 12/26/2015 3:59 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 00:58:19 -0500, wrote:

Clare pegged it, You haver a loose neutral. Try checking it at the
main lugs. If it is bad there call the PoCo. If it is bad at your sub,
investigate your neutral connections or look for a serious load
imbalance.

It's possible there is a neutral problem, but you could just have a pole
transformer that is not exactly center tapped. There could also be some
load on one leg, pulling down the voltage. Measure the voltage at the
MAINS on both legs with everything turned on. Then do it again with
everything turned Off.

If it's still unbalanced with everything OFF, it's just a transformer
that's a little unbalanced. Not to be worried about, if that's all it
is.

You did not say what the device is, which is using 23A, but you'd be
wise to run #10 wire and use a 30A breaker for that device. It would
help of we knew what it is, because a motor load can vary from when it
starts up to when it's running, while a resistive load, such as a
heating device has a pretty continuous power draw.

A 24 bulb tanning bed and each bulb is 110 watts. Kilowatt meter shows
it drawing 23.6 amps. Only motors are two very small muffin type fan motors.



Is that on the 127v leg? Even so, that would still be over 22a on 121v
(what you should be seeing if the legs were balanced)

What kind of plug is on this thing? (what was it when you bought it)

The other posters are correct, it should be a 30a plug.

"IGot2P" wrote in message
...
A 24 bulb tanning bed and each bulb is 110 watts. Kilowatt meter shows
it drawing 23.6 amps. Only motors are two very small muffin type fan
motors.


It may depend on how the Kilowatt meter works. In the last few days I have
been playing around with a meter similar to it that I got from China. It
displays the voltage, amperage, power.. The first thing I was testing was
an amplifier for my ham radio that puts out about 750 watts. The meter on
th eAC line was showing 118 volts 12,9 amps, 1216 watts. If you multiply
the volts and amps you get 1522 for the watage. I then hooked a heat gun
that is mostly resistive and was getting 117 V , 15 A, 1753 power, and by
multiplying Vand A I get 1755 for the wattage. Doing some more playing just
hooking a 50 mfd capacitor across the line it was drawing about 2.33 amps
and showing only about 1.5 watts.

I did check the meter with some Fluke meters and with the heat gun it shows
the same current and voltage so the China meter is accurate with in a small
percentage.


That tanning bed may be drawing current that is out of phase and you are
getting a current that is not really accurate compaired to the RMS or
average value.

On 12/26/2015 12:47 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 12:18:18 -0600, IGot2P
wrote:

(snipped)
A 24 bulb tanning bed and each bulb is 110 watts. Kilowatt meter shows
it drawing 23.6 amps. Only motors are two very small muffin type fan motors.



Is that on the 127v leg? Even so, that would still be over 22a on 121v
(what you should be seeing if the legs were balanced)

What kind of plug is on this thing? (what was it when you bought it)

The other posters are correct, it should be a 30a plug.

That was on the 125v outlet. The plug had a older standard 15 amp plug
on it but I recently changed it to a heavy duty 20 amp plug because the
old plug was getting a bit warm (not hot). The new plug stays very cool.
The interesting part is that the cord on the bed is only #12. This is an
older Sun Industries bed that we purchased used about three years ago
but it appears that the cord is definitely original as well as the
timer, fans, etc. Of course the bulbs had been replaced and had
approximately 300 hours on them when we got it.

Actually, the more I think about it and without going out and looking I
think that each bulb is only 105 watts but the two fans would be drawing
a little bit.

I will check the voltage of various outlets with a couple of my meters
and see if they match the Kilowatt meter. If they do I will check in the
box. I also have a clamp on meter that I can check and see how many amps
the whole thing is really drawing.

In the meantime I need to have lunch and then complete a few other
projects before these holidays are over.

On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 04:31:04 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 02:21:46 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

te breaker that trips may have tripped a lot in its past, and be worn.
for lack of a better term.

i would first try replacing the breaker that trips

Yea, and the breaker that DOES NOT trip could be defective or even
internally seized up, which is dangerous. I'd also try replacing that
one too, and see if the new breaker trips in the same panel location.
With higher voltage on one circuit the current draw may also be
different - depending on the load involved.

A motor would likely (or at least possibly) draw less at the higher
voltage, while a resistive load would draw more

On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 12:18:24 PM UTC-6, IGot2P wrote:

A 24 bulb tanning bed and each bulb is 110 watts. Kilowatt meter shows
it drawing 23.6 amps. Only motors are two very small muffin type fan motors.

Do you or a member of your family get depressed in the winter, due to lack of sunlight?

On 26 Dec 2015 11:36:47 -0500, Gallaxial
wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

One circuit 125V, others 117V, why?

Because of the 3 Phase Some have Different Voltages
Every Phase have his own Voltage
Who said anything about 3 phase? And all 3 legs of 3 phase should
also be balanced.

On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 13:54:20 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"IGot2P" wrote in message
.. .
A 24 bulb tanning bed and each bulb is 110 watts. Kilowatt meter shows
it drawing 23.6 amps. Only motors are two very small muffin type fan
motors.


It may depend on how the Kilowatt meter works. In the last few days I have
been playing around with a meter similar to it that I got from China. It
displays the voltage, amperage, power.. The first thing I was testing was
an amplifier for my ham radio that puts out about 750 watts. The meter on
th eAC line was showing 118 volts 12,9 amps, 1216 watts. If you multiply
the volts and amps you get 1522 for the watage. I then hooked a heat gun
that is mostly resistive and was getting 117 V , 15 A, 1753 power, and by
multiplying Vand A I get 1755 for the wattage. Doing some more playing just
hooking a 50 mfd capacitor across the line it was drawing about 2.33 amps
and showing only about 1.5 watts.

I did check the meter with some Fluke meters and with the heat gun it shows
the same current and voltage so the China meter is accurate with in a small
percentage.


That tanning bed may be drawing current that is out of phase and you are
getting a current that is not really accurate compaired to the RMS or
average value.

How would 24 100 watt bulbs have any reactive load component that
would change the power factor???

I think you are grasping at straws.

wrote in message
...
That tanning bed may be drawing current that is out of phase and you are
getting a current that is not really accurate compaired to the RMS or
average value.

How would 24 100 watt bulbs have any reactive load component that
would change the power factor???

I think you are grasping at straws.

Aren't most tanning beds using the gas tubes that require a ballast of some
sort ?
I doubt they are using common resistive bulbs.

On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 11:24:42 AM UTC-6, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 09:06:51 -0800 (PST)
Uncle Monster wrote:

On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 10:02:51 AM UTC-6, burfordTjustice
wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 10:53:16 -0500
Stormin Mormon wrote:

Sounds like it's not to code, and will affect
the OP's insurance?

How? You gonna go tell on him?

Why don't you go to Africa and tend the "poor"

Lead by example and others will follow. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Leading Monster

Unlike you (apparently) and the Jesus freak with 5
wives and door knocker I don't give a rats ass
about the poor in Africa. Their leaders don't
why should I??
I tend to me and mine the rest can get a job or
die makes no difference to me.

I don't like to see children harmed anywhere in the world. I can't do anything about it and wish the Hysterically Howling Progressive Liberal Leftist Commiecrat Freak Trans Intellectuals would STFU about manufactured crises and expend their energy and resources on real problems in the world. Of course, charity begins at home and there are plenty of helpless people right here that could use some help. ”Œ( à²*_à²*)”˜

[8~{} Uncle Selfish Monster

On 12/26/2015 1:15 PM, bob_villain wrote:
On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 12:18:24 PM UTC-6, IGot2P wrote:

A 24 bulb tanning bed and each bulb is 110 watts. Kilowatt meter shows
it drawing 23.6 amps. Only motors are two very small muffin type fan motors.

Do you or a member of your family get depressed in the winter, due to lack of sunlight?


Not at all, in fact we will be leaving for Naples, FL very soon for the
winter and just try to get a head start on the tan.

A 24 bulb tanning bed and each bulb is 110 watts. Kilowatt meter shows
it drawing 23.6 amps. Only motors are two very small muffin type fan
motors.

Does the tanning bed have a power usage plate on it somewhere?

If so, how much power does it say it's supposed to use?

Either way, 23+ amps is too much for a standard 20A circuit with 12 gauge
wire.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

On 12/26/2015 11:02 AM, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 10:53:16 -0500
Stormin Mormon wrote:

Sounds like it's not to code, and will affect
the OP's insurance?

How? You gonna go tell on him?

Why don't you go to Africa and tend the "poor"


A couple guys from my church have done that,
and say it's very satisfying. I don't have
the money for air fare, vaccinatons, etc.

Doesn't seem to be in the plan, for me. But,
thanks for the nice suggestion.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 12/26/2015 3:12 PM, HerHusband wrote:
A 24 bulb tanning bed and each bulb is 110 watts. Kilowatt meter shows
it drawing 23.6 amps. Only motors are two very small muffin type fan
motors.

Does the tanning bed have a power usage plate on it somewhere?

If so, how much power does it say it's supposed to use?

No


Either way, 23+ amps is too much for a standard 20A circuit with 12 gauge
wire.

I realize that it is a bit too much for a standard 20 amp circuit and
#12 wire. In fact, I stated that in my first post. OTOH - it has been
working fine for over three years without even popping a 20 amp circuit
breaker until I switched outlets. I need to try it in other outlets on
other 20 amp circuits to see if by chance the breaker on the original
circuit might be bad. Of course I might just change breakers to check
the same thing.

Before next year's tanning season I no doubt will simply purchase a bed
that runs off of 220 and just put another outlet in the line that runs
to my 220 air air compressor as both will never be on at the same time.


Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 15:31:09 -0600, IGot2P wrote:

On 12/26/2015 3:12 PM, HerHusband wrote:
A 24 bulb tanning bed and each bulb is 110 watts. Kilowatt meter shows
it drawing 23.6 amps. Only motors are two very small muffin type fan
motors.

Does the tanning bed have a power usage plate on it somewhere?

If so, how much power does it say it's supposed to use?

No


Either way, 23+ amps is too much for a standard 20A circuit with 12 gauge
wire.

I realize that it is a bit too much for a standard 20 amp circuit and
#12 wire. In fact, I stated that in my first post. OTOH - it has been
working fine for over three years without even popping a 20 amp circuit
breaker until I switched outlets. I need to try it in other outlets on
other 20 amp circuits to see if by chance the breaker on the original
circuit might be bad. Of course I might just change breakers to check
the same thing.

Before next year's tanning season I no doubt will simply purchase a bed
that runs off of 220 and just put another outlet in the line that runs
to my 220 air air compressor as both will never be on at the same time.


Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com


Why not just remove a few bulbs for now.... I'm sure it will still work,
maybe just a little slower. So then you stay under it for an extra five
minutes....

IGot2P wrote:
On 12/26/2015 1:15 PM, bob_villain wrote:
On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 12:18:24 PM UTC-6, IGot2P wrote:

A 24 bulb tanning bed and each bulb is 110 watts. Kilowatt meter shows
it drawing 23.6 amps. Only motors are two very small muffin type fan
motors.

Do you or a member of your family get depressed in the winter, due to
lack of sunlight?


Not at all, in fact we will be leaving for Naples, FL very soon for the
winter and just try to get a head start on the tan.


Tanning? Oh, My! Never in my life other than by sun.

On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 14:40:37 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
That tanning bed may be drawing current that is out of phase and you are
getting a current that is not really accurate compaired to the RMS or
average value.

How would 24 100 watt bulbs have any reactive load component that
would change the power factor???

I think you are grasping at straws.

Aren't most tanning beds using the gas tubes that require a ballast of some
sort ?
I doubt they are using common resistive bulbs.


Possibly. Some use ballasted gas discharge, some use fluorescent, some
use incandescent - and some of the newer ones are all LED. All they
need is an ultraviolet emitter of some sort.