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#1
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing
sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger than the screw I'm putting through the hole. Is that possible? Why? Maybe the reason doesn't apply to my situation. The graphic shows a screw with arrows pointed at the threaded part from both sides, and to the left of that a circle with a diagonal slash through it. Immediately to the right of that, it has Circlle/with/slash + 3 mm and then a drill bit with arrows pointing from both sides, towards the bit. So the second part is Circle +3 mm Bit. Does that mean what I think it does? Thanks |
#2
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 12:05:08 PM UTC-6, micky wrote:
The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger than the screw I'm putting through the hole. Is that possible? Why? Maybe the reason doesn't apply to my situation. The graphic shows a screw with arrows pointed at the threaded part from both sides, and to the left of that a circle with a diagonal slash through it. Immediately to the right of that, it has Circlle/with/slash + 3 mm and then a drill bit with arrows pointing from both sides, towards the bit. So the second part is Circle +3 mm Bit. Does that mean what I think it does? Thanks Are you going to drill any holes in it...or are you on another anal retentive binge for more responses? |
#3
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:05:04 -0500, micky
wrote: The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger than the screw I'm putting through the hole. Is that possible? Why? Maybe the reason doesn't apply to my situation. The graphic shows a screw with arrows pointed at the threaded part from both sides, and to the left of that a circle with a diagonal slash through it. Immediately to the right of that, it has Circlle/with/slash + 3 mm and then a drill bit with arrows pointing from both sides, towards the bit. So the second part is Circle +3 mm Bit. Does that mean what I think it does? I do not know what you think it means. My guess; is a larger hole prevents the screw from possibly cracking the lexan - radiating from the drilled hole. Video: _How to Drill a Shank Hole or Clearance Hole_ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvLOIxtdRyM&list=PL1szv0FP8dUthzyAv88t3sQz hxFLWMXRF What do I win? |
#4
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
In ,
Oren belched: On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:05:04 -0500, micky wrote: The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger than the screw I'm putting through the hole. Is that possible? Why? Maybe the reason doesn't apply to my situation. The graphic shows a screw with arrows pointed at the threaded part from both sides, and to the left of that a circle with a diagonal slash through it. Immediately to the right of that, it has Circlle/with/slash + 3 mm and then a drill bit with arrows pointing from both sides, towards the bit. So the second part is Circle +3 mm Bit. Does that mean what I think it does? I do not know what you think it means. My guess; is a larger hole prevents the screw from possibly cracking the lexan - radiating from the drilled hole. Video: _How to Drill a Shank Hole or Clearance Hole_ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvLOIxtdRyM&list=PL1szv0FP8dUthzyAv88t3sQz hxFLWMXRF What do I win? GD.......didn't you win enough last nite : ) You SOBs ain't never happy..............but watchin bammy dancin and the look of disgust on his face right now brings a big grin on my faceBEG |
#5
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 10:56:53 -0800, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:05:04 -0500, micky wrote: The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger than the screw I'm putting through the hole. Is that possible? Why? Maybe the reason doesn't apply to my situation. The graphic shows a screw with arrows pointed at the threaded part from both sides, and to the left of that a circle with a diagonal slash through it. Immediately to the right of that, it has Circlle/with/slash + 3 mm and then a drill bit with arrows pointing from both sides, towards the bit. So the second part is Circle +3 mm Bit. Does that mean what I think it does? I do not know what you think it means. It's in the first paragraph, that I'm supposed to drill the hole 3mm bigger than the screw. My guess; is a larger hole prevents the screw from possibly cracking the lexan - radiating from the drilled hole. The graphic showed a screw so I used the word screw, but it's really going to be a pop rivet There will be under the head of the rivet a flat washer, then the lexan, then a part of a piece of vinyl**, then another washer, and then the compressed end of the pop rivet. I would think the metal washer between the vinyl and the squished end would keep the rivet expansion from reaching further up (above the washer) to the rivet tube where it goes through the Lexan. But maybe I should make the hole bigger by 1mm, 2mm, the full 3? **that goes around three sides of the Lexan***. This vinyl was originally fused to the rear window of my convertible. The window broke while I was lowering the top. In large part because it was the first year Toyota made a convertible and the window was too big for the space it was intended to go it. (It had already ripped off a plastic groove behind the back seat meant to hold the boot cover, that it used to catch on and eventually ripped off. . A 2001 car I've looked at in a used car lot also has its groove ripped off. ***The fourth side, the top, will require a different setup, because the tension on the fabric makes pulling it back to the orignal position impossible. It came apart there two years ago, and I patched it with a little extra fabric from an old vinyl top and some VHB adhesive tape, but maybe that was starting to loosen and that allowed the window to break, which was strange since the glass had gotten beyond, lower than, where that plastic groove had been, and there was nothing to catch on below that. Video: _How to Drill a Shank Hole or Clearance Hole_ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvLOIxtdRyM&list=PL1szv0FP8dUthzyAv88t3sQz hxFLWMXRF What do I win? |
#6
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 10:56:53 -0800, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:05:04 -0500, micky wrote: The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger than the screw I'm putting through the hole. Is that possible? Why? Maybe the reason doesn't apply to my situation. The graphic shows a screw with arrows pointed at the threaded part from both sides, and to the left of that a circle with a diagonal slash through it. Immediately to the right of that, it has Circlle/with/slash + 3 mm and then a drill bit with arrows pointing from both sides, towards the bit. So the second part is Circle +3 mm Bit. I do not know what you think it means. My guess; is a larger hole So it does mean I should make the hole larger than the screw, or pop rivet?? prevents the screw from possibly cracking the lexan - radiating from the drilled hole. What do I win? Gratitude. |
#7
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 12:05:08 PM UTC-6, micky wrote:
....next you will be saying this convertible spends the Winter outside! Good God! |
#8
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
| The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing
| sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger | than the screw I'm putting through the hole. | | Is that possible? | | Why? Maybe the reason doesn't apply to my situation. It applies. Holes in plastic should always be bigger because the expansion/contraction can make the sheet buckle otherwise. By drilling larger holes you allow the sheet some space. I usually use small washers so that I can make bigger holes. Finish washers will also work if it needs to look nice. |
#9
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:05:04 -0500, micky
wrote: The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger than the screw I'm putting through the hole. Is that possible? Why? Maybe the reason doesn't apply to my situation. The graphic shows a screw with arrows pointed at the threaded part from both sides, and to the left of that a circle with a diagonal slash through it. Immediately to the right of that, it has Circlle/with/slash + 3 mm and then a drill bit with arrows pointing from both sides, towards the bit. So the second part is Circle +3 mm Bit. Does that mean what I think it does? Thanks It is necessary to allow the lexan to "move" a bit with temperature change etc without putting stress on the hole. It is generally necessary unless, possibly, you are bolting to lexan of the same composition and thickness. |
#10
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 15:52:43 -0500, micky
wrote: On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 10:56:53 -0800, Oren wrote: On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:05:04 -0500, micky wrote: The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger than the screw I'm putting through the hole. Is that possible? Why? Maybe the reason doesn't apply to my situation. The graphic shows a screw with arrows pointed at the threaded part from both sides, and to the left of that a circle with a diagonal slash through it. Immediately to the right of that, it has Circlle/with/slash + 3 mm and then a drill bit with arrows pointing from both sides, towards the bit. So the second part is Circle +3 mm Bit. Does that mean what I think it does? I do not know what you think it means. It's in the first paragraph, that I'm supposed to drill the hole 3mm bigger than the screw. My guess; is a larger hole prevents the screw from possibly cracking the lexan - radiating from the drilled hole. The graphic showed a screw so I used the word screw, but it's really going to be a pop rivet There will be under the head of the rivet a flat washer, then the lexan, then a part of a piece of vinyl**, then another washer, and then the compressed end of the pop rivet. I would think the metal washer between the vinyl and the squished end would keep the rivet expansion from reaching further up (above the washer) to the rivet tube where it goes through the Lexan. But maybe I should make the hole bigger by 1mm, 2mm, the full 3? **that goes around three sides of the Lexan***. This vinyl was originally fused to the rear window of my convertible. The window broke while I was lowering the top. In large part because it was the first year Toyota made a convertible and the window was too big for the space it was intended to go it. (It had already ripped off a plastic groove behind the back seat meant to hold the boot cover, that it used to catch on and eventually ripped off. . A 2001 car I've looked at in a used car lot also has its groove ripped off. ***The fourth side, the top, will require a different setup, because the tension on the fabric makes pulling it back to the orignal position impossible. It came apart there two years ago, and I patched it with a little extra fabric from an old vinyl top and some VHB adhesive tape, but maybe that was starting to loosen and that allowed the window to break, which was strange since the glass had gotten beyond, lower than, where that plastic groove had been, and there was nothing to catch on below that. Video: _How to Drill a Shank Hole or Clearance Hole_ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvLOIxtdRyM&list=PL1szv0FP8dUthzyAv88t3sQz hxFLWMXRF What do I win? You DO realize Toyota didn't actually build that(solara) convertible. It was built as a coupe on the Toyota assembly line, and converted to a soft-top by American Sun Roof Corporation for Toyota. (The car was built in Cambridge Ontario and the conversion was done by ASC in Kitchener Ontario) |
#11
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
On 11/5/14, 5:48 PM, Mayayana wrote:
| The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing | sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger | than the screw I'm putting through the hole. | | Is that possible? | | Why? Maybe the reason doesn't apply to my situation. It applies. Holes in plastic should always be bigger because the expansion/contraction can make the sheet buckle otherwise. By drilling larger holes you allow the sheet some space. I usually use small washers so that I can make bigger holes. Finish washers will also work if it needs to look nice. 3mm seems like a lot for expansion/contraction. I wonder if it's to be sure washers are used. |
#12
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What does this mean , on my Lexan? Yes
micky posted for all of us...
The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger than the screw I'm putting through the hole. Is that possible? Why? Maybe the reason doesn't apply to my situation. The graphic shows a screw with arrows pointed at the threaded part from both sides, and to the left of that a circle with a diagonal slash through it. Immediately to the right of that, it has Circlle/with/slash + 3 mm and then a drill bit with arrows pointing from both sides, towards the bit. So the second part is Circle +3 mm Bit. Does that mean what I think it does? Thanks It means exactly what you you think it means; it has to be 3mm larger. It may be because of expansion / contraction or stress from drilling. Are you using this for a window in a car top or do I have a memory fart? -- Tekkie |
#13
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What does this mean , on my Lexan? Yes
On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 20:03:55 -0500, Tekkie® wrote:
micky posted for all of us... The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger than the screw I'm putting through the hole. Is that possible? ...... The graphic shows a screw with arrows pointed at the threaded part from both sides, and to the left of that a circle with a diagonal slash through it. ..... Circlle/with/slash + 3 mm and then a drill bit with arrows pointing from both sides, towards the bit. So the second part is Circle +3 mm Bit. Does that mean what I think it does? Thanks It means exactly what you you think it means; it has to be 3mm larger. It may be because of expansion / contraction or stress from drilling. Are you using this for a window in a car top That's right. I started this months ago, but got interrupted by the right front and rear wheel damage, etc, the washer changing in the bathtub that required getting new stems, and a bunch of other things. My answer to Clare, when I write it, should say why this has taken so long. or do I have a memory fart? |
#14
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But, you should keep in mind that the 3 mm is for the largest dimension of the sheet of plastic. (4'X8'?) If you're only using 1/4 of a sheet, you may only need 1/4 of that 3 mm to allow for thermal expansion and contraction. But, since you're using rivets which won't allow for any sliding of the plastic as it expands or contracts, you need to allow some way for the plastic to move or it will buckle when it expands. You may want to use nylon screws and nuts instead of rivets. Most places that specialize in fasteners will be able to order nylon screws, nuts and washers for you. That way you can fasten the plastic down, but still have some slippage of the plastic between the nylon washers to allow for thermal expansion and contraction. Last edited by nestork : November 6th 14 at 06:42 AM |
#15
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
On Thu, 6 Nov 2014 07:34:50 +0100, nestork
wrote: micky;3304935 Wrote: The graphic shows a screw with arrows pointed at the threaded part from both sides, and to the left of that a circle with a diagonal slash through it. ..... Circlle/with/slash + 3 mm and then a drill bit with arrows pointing from both sides, towards the bit. So the second part is Circle +3 mm Bit. Does that mean what I think it does? I agree with both Mayayana and Clare Snyder here. Plastics have the largest coefficient of thermal expansion. The lowest coefficient is with ceramic materials like brick, glass, concrete, mortar at 5 to 12 parts per million per degree Celsius. Then metals at from about 12 to 40 parts per million per degree C. And finally plastics, which for PVC is about 200 ppm/deg. C. if memory serves. But, you should keep in mind that the 3 mm is for the largest dimension of the sheet of plastic. (4'X8'?) If you're only using 1/4 of a sheet, you may only need 1/4 of that 3 mm to allow for thermal expansion and contraction. Very good point. But, since you're using rivets which won't allow for any sliding of the plastic as it expands or contracts, you need to allow some way for the plastic to move or it will buckle when it expands. Well, it will only be attached to the rear "curtain" that used to hold the glass, to a 7/8" strip of vinyl that used to adhere to the glass, and the rest of the curtain is canvas, I think, or maybe vinyl but certainly bendable like cloth. . Plus the lexan does bend a little. And indeed so does the glass from a factory window (Somehow they make glass that bends a bit, but straigtens out I'm sure when the top is lowered.) (Thursday I will see if I can get 1/8" instead of 3/16". I thought I needed 3/16" for the strength, but now I think it's stronger than it needs to be, if it fits.) You may want to use nylon screws and nuts instead of rivets. Most places What would keep the plastic nuts from gradually falling off the screws? And wouldnt' the diameter of the screws be bigger than the pop rivets, that IIRC are 1/8"? Diameter is important, because the original glass only overlapped the curtain by 7/8" If I make the new window taller than the old, it won't fit in the well, and I can't make it more than an inch wider because other things are in the way. The backing sheet on the lexan also said holes had to be at least 2 cm. from the edge, which is over 3/4", which if I used exactly the same dimensions for the lexan as the glass was, would put the center of the hole in the vinyl just 1/8" from the edge of the vinyl. That won't work, so I made the lexan larger on the sides and the sides of the bottom (The bottom is curved down in the middle, but this still made it less able to fit inthe well, so I cut another 3/16" off the top of the plastic. In other words, the farther from the edge of the plastic I put the holes, the closer it is to the edge of the vinyl. And vice versa. So it helps if the diameter of the pop rivets or plastic screws is small. that specialize in fasteners will be able to order nylon screws, nuts and washers for you. That way you can fasten the plastic down, but still have some slippage of the plastic between the nylon washers to allow for thermal expansion and contraction. |
#16
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:48:08 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote: | The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing | sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger | than the screw I'm putting through the hole. | | Is that possible? | | Why? Maybe the reason doesn't apply to my situation. It applies. Holes in plastic should always be bigger because the expansion/contraction can make the sheet buckle otherwise. By drilling larger holes you allow the sheet some space. Ah, okay. I usually use small washers so that I can make bigger holes. I was going to use washers anyhow, but didn't plan to make the holes bigger than necessary. I guess I have to do that. Finish washers will also work if it needs to look nice. Good idea, but in this case, they won't be visible. Of course that makes it harder to put them in on the sides, because I have to pull back the top. On t he bottom that's easy, and at the top an inch or two more of fabric will have to be added. I have two old black tops, and I used a piece of one two years ago. It's still attached by that VHB adhesive tape. |
#17
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
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#18
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
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#19
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
On 11/6/14, 1:34 AM, nestork wrote:
micky;3304935 Wrote: The graphic shows a screw with arrows pointed at the threaded part from both sides, and to the left of that a circle with a diagonal slash through it. ..... Circlle/with/slash + 3 mm and then a drill bit with arrows pointing from both sides, towards the bit. So the second part is Circle +3 mm Bit. Does that mean what I think it does? I agree with both Mayayana and Clare Snyder here. Plastics have the largest coefficient of thermal expansion. The lowest coefficient is with ceramic materials like brick, glass, concrete, mortar at 5 to 12 parts per million per degree Celsius. Then metals at from about 12 to 40 parts per million per degree C. And finally plastics, which for PVC is about 200 ppm/deg. C. if memory serves. I hadn't thought about that. I looked it up. It's 70 ppm / C for Lexan. Glass-filled Lexan has a much lower coefficient (21 ppm/C). http://boedeker.com/polyc_p.htm But, you should keep in mind that the 3 mm is for the largest dimension of the sheet of plastic. (4'X8'?) If you're only using 1/4 of a sheet, you may only need 1/4 of that 3 mm to allow for thermal expansion and contraction. But, since you're using rivets which won't allow for any sliding of the plastic as it expands or contracts, you need to allow some way for the plastic to move or it will buckle when it expands. You may want to use nylon screws and nuts instead of rivets. Most places that specialize in fasteners will be able to order nylon screws, nuts and washers for you. That way you can fasten the plastic down, but still have some slippage of the plastic between the nylon washers to allow for thermal expansion and contraction. Based on 70 ppm/C, Lexan would expand 3mm/m for each 43 C. It seems funny that the manufacturer would specify 3mm without mentioning size or temperature range. This page talks about Plexiglas, whose coefficient is a little bigger than Lexan, and which is affected by humidity. It says to avoid inflexible fasteners such as bolts, and adhesives should allow movement. http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/Plastics_Library/Coefficients-of-Thermal-Expansions-of-Plexiglass Nylon screws and washers sound good to me. I used them on Plexiglas windshields. It didn't occur to me to drill oversize holes. |
#20
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
On 11/5/2014 7:55 PM, J Burns wrote:
On 11/5/14, 5:48 PM, Mayayana wrote: | The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing | sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger | than the screw I'm putting through the hole. 3mm seems like a lot for expansion/contraction. I wonder if it's to be sure washers are used. 3mm larger than the screw allows 1.5mm in each direction. Coefficient of Thermal Expansion, 10E-4/°F. Found this Thermal expansion due to its approximately 5 times greater rate of expansion compared to glass we recommend allowances be made both in the framing or screwing down. The rate is about 2.1 mm at 3 m per 10°C. |
#21
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:05:04 -0500, micky
wrote: The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger than the screw I'm putting through the hole. Thanks for all your help. Unrelated to question of hole size, now I'm thinking I should have gotten 1/8" lexan instead of 3/16". It would be lighter, easier to attach, less weight on each hole (so the rivet or whatever wouldnt' rip out of the vinyl and I also wouldn't have to make as many attachment points), and since it's lexan, still very unlikely to break. And it might flex more as the window is supposed to do when the top is up. (It's supposed to bend in the middle horizontally.) I will make the holes bigger than I had planned, accordign to your advice in this thread. Do you think 1/8" is strong enough to not break at the holes. It's a good store, but they don't stock everything, and I've waited too long to order something, So, they also make Lexan with an anti-UV finish, so it won't turn yellow. It only has to last 3 1/2 more years. Do you think the regular stuff will stay clear, not yellow, for most of 3.5 years even without the aniti-UV. They also make Lexan with a mar-resistant finish since it lexan scratches more easily than acryllic**, though I don't know if one can get both at the same time. **I had acryllic the first time and it broke at a corner, at a rivet, so I think I need the strength of lexan. OTOH, that was 40 years ago. Maybe they've improved acryllic's non-breaking since then. |
#22
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What does this mean , on my Lexan?
On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 04:17:41 -0500, micky
wrote: On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:05:04 -0500, micky wrote: The instructions written in graphics only, no words, on the backing sheet imply that I must make the hole through my Lexan sheet 3mm bigger than the screw I'm putting through the hole. Thanks for all your help. Unrelated to question of hole size, now I'm thinking I should have gotten 1/8" lexan instead of 3/16". It would be lighter, easier to attach, less weight on each hole (so the rivet or whatever wouldnt' rip out of the vinyl and I also wouldn't have to make as many attachment points), and since it's lexan, still very unlikely to break. And it might flex more as the window is supposed to do when the top is up. (It's supposed to bend in the middle horizontally.) So that's what I did yesterday, buy a thinner sheet of "lexan". Today I cut it to the same size. The 3/16" thick piece weighed 5.75 pounds. The 1/8" thick piece weighed 3.625 pounds. Just about 2/3rds, as would be expected. It feels lighter than that, less than half the weight, but I guess that's an illusion. I'm glad I bought lighter, even if it was another $25. So, they also make Lexan with an anti-UV finish, so it won't turn yellow. It only has to last 3 1/2 more years. Do you think the regular stuff will stay clear, not yellow, for most of 3.5 years even without the aniti-UV. This doesn't matter anymore. While the orginal sheet by Sabic** had no UV protection, the new sheet by Palram (made in Kutztown, Pa, where my step-father taught school), called Palsun, has it on one side (and you can buy it with anti-UV on both sides). SABIC Innovative Plastics (GE Plastics) who I think hold the own the word Lexan® , but loads of companies make the stuff. http://www.matweb.com/reference/Manu...?MatGroupID=26 They also make Lexan with a mar-resistant finish since it lexan scratches more easily than acryllic**, though I don't know if one can get both at the same time. It looks like I'd have to order this, and buy a whole sheet, 4x8' for $125. Even if money didn't matter, too much of a hurry to order it. **I had acryllic the first time and it broke at a corner, at a rivet, so I think I need the strength of lexan. OTOH, that was 40 years ago. Maybe they've improved acryllic's non-breaking since then. The girl who had 7 years experience selling plastic, told me that acryllic was still brittle, at the very least by comparison to lexan. I bought a quarter sheet anyhow, for $20. It was labeled green, but neither I nor the girl could see any color. The guy there did however, It was also labeled iirc 030:030 or something similar. Means green. |
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