Just to keep you wonderful guys updated about the huckleberries ...

I finally emptied the pool, cleaned out the muck, and started filling
it from the well, and then, just today, solved, the problem of adding
cyanuric acid professional "powder" (not the "retail" granules!) and
am in the middle of figuring out to get the equipment back running.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2905/1...c761128e_b.jpg

Whew!

Lots of approached failed miserably, while only a few worked.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3775/1...e40a3c18_b.jpg

But, in the end, the combination of successful methods resulted
in a pool that is almost ready to be turned on for the summer!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2938/1...136dcef2_b.jpg

Thanks!

On 5/28/2014 3:45 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Just to keep you wonderful guys updated about the huckleberries ...

I finally emptied the pool, cleaned out the muck, and started filling
it from the well, and then, just today, solved, the problem of adding
cyanuric acid professional "powder" (not the "retail" granules!) and
am in the middle of figuring out to get the equipment back running.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2905/1...c761128e_b.jpg

Whew!

Lots of approached failed miserably, while only a few worked.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3775/1...e40a3c18_b.jpg

But, in the end, the combination of successful methods resulted
in a pool that is almost ready to be turned on for the summer!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2938/1...136dcef2_b.jpg

Thanks!

I'm one of those that would say, "I'll buy the house, if you fill in
the pool."
But I'm glad you have the work done so you can keep up on the
maintenance. :-)
Mikek

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Danny D. posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


Just to keep you wonderful guys updated about the huckleberries ...

I finally emptied the pool, cleaned out the muck, and started filling
it from the well, and then, just today, solved, the problem of adding
cyanuric acid professional "powder" (not the "retail" granules!) and
am in the middle of figuring out to get the equipment back running.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2905/1...c761128e_b.jpg

Whew!

Lots of approached failed miserably, while only a few worked.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3775/1...e40a3c18_b.jpg

But, in the end, the combination of successful methods resulted
in a pool that is almost ready to be turned on for the summer!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2938/1...136dcef2_b.jpg

Thanks!

I'll be over for my yearly dip.

--
Tekkie

On 5/28/2014 5:11 PM, amdx wrote:
On 5/28/2014 3:45 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Just to keep you wonderful guys updated about the huckleberries ...

I finally emptied the pool, cleaned out the muck, and started filling
it from the well, and then, just today, solved, the problem of adding
cyanuric acid professional "powder" (not the "retail" granules!) and
am in the middle of figuring out to get the equipment back running.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2905/1...c761128e_b.jpg

Whew!

Lots of approached failed miserably, while only a few worked.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3775/1...e40a3c18_b.jpg

But, in the end, the combination of successful methods resulted
in a pool that is almost ready to be turned on for the summer!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2938/1...136dcef2_b.jpg

Thanks!

I'm one of those that would say, "I'll buy the house, if you fill in
the pool."
But I'm glad you have the work done so you can keep up on the
maintenance. :-)
Mikek

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com


I have a small backyard with a 10,000 gal pool and deck. I think it's
easier to care for than grass.

On 5/28/2014 3:45 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Just to keep you wonderful guys updated about the huckleberries ...

I finally emptied the pool, cleaned out the muck, and started filling
it from the well, and then, just today, solved, the problem of adding
cyanuric acid professional "powder" (not the "retail" granules!) and
am in the middle of figuring out to get the equipment back running.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2905/1...c761128e_b.jpg

Whew!

Lots of approached failed miserably, while only a few worked.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3775/1...e40a3c18_b.jpg

But, in the end, the combination of successful methods resulted
in a pool that is almost ready to be turned on for the summer!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2938/1...136dcef2_b.jpg

Thanks!


Your finish looks kind of like my PebbleSheen finish.

http://www.pebbletec.com/products/pe...olor=aqua-blue

gonjah wrote, on Wed, 28 May 2014 21:14:11 -0500:

Your finish looks kind of like my PebbleSheen finish.
http://www.pebbletec.com/products/pe...olor=aqua-blue

Your finish is very nice.

Mine, which can be seen dry here, is a gray color which has
somehow turned a whitish blueish greenish from something,
perhaps algae treatments and/or calcium deposits?
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3750/1...bd17ae83_b.jpg

One thing I find in the finish that is weird is this mottled
cracked-mud-like appearance when it's just getting wet.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2931/1...8c586110_b.jpg

In that picture above, on the left side, what do you think
causes that cracked-mud look?

Tekkie® wrote, on Wed, 28 May 2014 19:27:16 -0400:

I'll be over for my yearly dip.

It's almost ready for your annual dip!

So far, it has taken three weeks (elapsed time) to almost fill
the pool from the well water because the well just couldn't put
out more than about a thousand or two thousand gallons without
running dry.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3721/1...804dcb1c_b.jpg

I've snaked all the bottom drains, popups, and side vents:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2922/1...63173085_b.jpg

One huge technical problem I just solved today was how to
dissolve 12 pounds of professional cyanuric acid powder in
one sitting!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3717/1...d6f33721_b.jpg

As you may know, CYA has a low solubility in water (2g/l@25ºC).
That means only 1/10th of a pound can dissolve in my 5g bucket:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5517/1...f36835bd_b.jpg

After making a few mistakes, I realized is that this professional
powder cannot be applied wet, as the retail granules are!

It must be applied dry!
Otherwise it cakes instantly!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5159/1...2b59f88c_b.jpg

I finally figured out how to keep the cyanuric acid powder in
a suspension, so that it can be poured into the pool like milk!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2901/1...c71a9dd0_b.jpg

The result is a dispersing "cloud" of water-separated particles:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3799/1...6f8fb243_b.jpg

But, it took a few experiments where all I got was caked CYA on
the floor of the pool before I figured out the physical chemistry
of a substance that turns into instant cement with water!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2898/1...2c16a580_b.jpg

Apparently the cyanuric acid is slow to dissolve because of the
amount of energy it takes for water to dislodge a CYA molecule
from its crystal structure (analogous to an activation energy for
chemical reactions).
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2911/1...b14c9b48_b.jpg

The rate of dissolving has a far greater dependence on the
surface area of the granules and on the circulation of
water around them. Finely crushed CYA dissolves more quickly
than the retail granules, though it is so light that it can't
readily break the surface tension of water and ends up floating
on the surface when I apply it by shaking it out of a dry net:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5113/1...9d55434f_b.jpg

So, I learned a lot about how the pros apply cyanuric acid
powder (which, I might add, isn't easy to buy because it's not
apparently sold to the general public):
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3754/1...f9945a46_b.jpg

gonjah wrote, on Wed, 28 May 2014 19:34:55 -0500:

I have a small backyard with a 10,000 gal pool and deck.
I think it's easier to care for than grass.

The maintenance task is a bit more difficult than most for me.

For one, I don't know why pill bugs LOVE my pool so much!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3742/1...ccf7a462_z.jpg

And, for another, I don't have any of the right tools.
For example, this is the only "pool vacuum" I own:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3775/1...e40a3c18_c.jpg

And, this Craftsman sump pump just impotently dribbles!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2930/1...d92c725c_z.jpg

It drives me crazy that 1/2 horsepower takes about an hour
to fill up a 5-gallon bucket when the inlet end is immersed
in water the entire time!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2902/1...e1770d6b_z.jpg

You'd think Craftsman tools would work better than that!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/14101828108/

Another maintenance task is applying the huge amount of
chlorine to the pool in various forms:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2908/1...5922732f_b.jpg

So, all in all, I wouldn't wish pool maintenance on my
worst enemy; but maybe I just need the right tools.

NOTE: If you have any idea WHY that 1/2 Horsepower Craftsman
pump sucks so badly, please let me know (because it makes
maintenance manual when it should be automatic!).

On Thu, 29 May 2014 05:13:03 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Mine, which can be seen dry here, is a gray color which has
somehow turned a whitish blueish greenish from something,
perhaps algae treatments and/or calcium deposits?
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3750/1...bd17ae83_b.jpg

Possibly the algae treatment. I'm using one for a couple half-dollar
sized black algae spots on white plaster wall ( (I let the pool go a
bit over winter).

This product is only intended for white plaster. Not to be used on
colored plaster cement, vinyl liners or painted pools.

- Pool Pals ® Algae Kill (TRICHLORO-S-TRIAZINETRIONE 99.0% in granular
form)

..... I found a couple of good sites, you might find helpful. ( great
for breaking away from pool stores that try to sell you everything
under the sun ) and a first time pool owner

http://thepoolcalculator.com/

http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/169-TFP-Home-Page
--
....our great nation is under attack by termites...attacking the foundation - Louisiana Senator Elbert Guillory

On Thursday, May 29, 2014 1:58:59 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
gonjah wrote, on Wed, 28 May 2014 19:34:55 -0500:



I have a small backyard with a 10,000 gal pool and deck.

I think it's easier to care for than grass.



The maintenance task is a bit more difficult than most for me.



For one, I don't know why pill bugs LOVE my pool so much!

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3742/1...ccf7a462_z.jpg



And, for another, I don't have any of the right tools.

For example, this is the only "pool vacuum" I own:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3775/1...e40a3c18_c.jpg



And, this Craftsman sump pump just impotently dribbles!

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2930/1...d92c725c_z.jpg



It drives me crazy that 1/2 horsepower takes about an hour

to fill up a 5-gallon bucket when the inlet end is immersed

in water the entire time!

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2902/1...e1770d6b_z.jpg



You'd think Craftsman tools would work better than that!


I'm not sure what the lift capability of those utiity
type pumps are. You have it connected to a long suction
hose that probably does down 10 ft to the bottom of the
pool? It would probably work better if the pump was
where the water is and had only a short suction hose.
It can probably push water better than it can pull it.

On 5/29/2014 12:13 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Mine, which can be seen dry here, is a gray color which has
somehow turned a whitish blueish greenish from something,
perhaps algae treatments and/or calcium deposits?
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3750/1...bd17ae83_b.jpg

What is the hardness level of your well water? I've been told hard-water
causes mottling. The cracking? I'm not sure, but it could be related. I
think the only thing you can do is refinish and don't use hard water.
(got $5 to $10 grand to spare?)

Hopefully someone else has a cheaper idea.

gonjah wrote, on Thu, 29 May 2014 20:47:29 -0500:

What is the hardness level of your well water? I've been told hard-water
causes mottling. The cracking? I'm not sure, but it could be related. I
think the only thing you can do is refinish and don't use hard water.
(got $5 to $10 grand to spare?)

Here is a shot of the pool store analysis of the well water this week:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2921/1...a42f6d2f_b.jpg

It says 200ppm for Calcium, which is pretty good for a pool, I think.

Oren wrote, on Thu, 29 May 2014 07:44:46 -0700:

Possibly the algae treatment. I'm using one for a couple half-dollar
sized black algae spots on white plaster wall ( (I let the pool go a
bit over winter).

Heh heh... *you* let it go "a bit" for the winter?
Me too!

I figured I'd do my part to allow the "greening" of the waters,
in order to feed the birds and the bees, over the warm winter
here in California.

Here's a 'before' shot:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3701/1...27d69c41_c.jpg

Do you think I can grow huckleberries in that green pool?

On 5/29/2014 9:25 PM, Danny D. wrote:
gonjah wrote, on Thu, 29 May 2014 20:47:29 -0500:

What is the hardness level of your well water? I've been told hard-water
causes mottling. The cracking? I'm not sure, but it could be related. I
think the only thing you can do is refinish and don't use hard water.
(got $5 to $10 grand to spare?)

Here is a shot of the pool store analysis of the well water this week:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2921/1...a42f6d2f_b.jpg

It says 200ppm for Calcium, which is pretty good for a pool, I think.


I'd think so too. That's the water hardness right out of the well?

I had the opposite problem. The previous owners were using soft water to
refill the pool and the plaster got pitted. I thought adding calcium
might reverse the problem but the pool store guys said that it doesn't
work like that. So I refinished the pool.

On Fri, 30 May 2014 05:23:26 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Here's a 'before' shot:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3701/1...27d69c41_c.jpg

Do you think I can grow huckleberries in that green pool?

No, but you could start a fish farm

“The Garden Pool was a large run-down pool that is now a closed-loop
food production system using aquaponics and is powered by solar
energy. The GP was designed to feed a family of four with organic
eggs, fruit, veggies, herbs, and fish 365 days a year while using 90%
less water than conventional farming methods."

w/video:

https://tinyurl.com/ockbltt

On Thursday, May 29, 2014 1:36:40 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
Tekkie® wrote, on Wed, 28 May 2014 19:27:16 -0400:



I'll be over for my yearly dip.



It's almost ready for your annual dip!



So far, it has taken three weeks (elapsed time) to almost fill

the pool from the well water because the well just couldn't put

out more than about a thousand or two thousand gallons without

running dry.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3721/1...804dcb1c_b.jpg



I've snaked all the bottom drains, popups, and side vents:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2922/1...63173085_b.jpg



One huge technical problem I just solved today was how to

dissolve 12 pounds of professional cyanuric acid powder in

one sitting!

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3717/1...d6f33721_b.jpg



As you may know, CYA has a low solubility in water (2g/l@25ºC).

That means only 1/10th of a pound can dissolve in my 5g bucket:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5517/1...f36835bd_b.jpg



After making a few mistakes, I realized is that this professional

powder cannot be applied wet, as the retail granules are!



It must be applied dry!

Otherwise it cakes instantly!

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5159/1...2b59f88c_b.jpg



I finally figured out how to keep the cyanuric acid powder in

a suspension, so that it can be poured into the pool like milk!

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2901/1...c71a9dd0_b.jpg



The result is a dispersing "cloud" of water-separated particles:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3799/1...6f8fb243_b.jpg



But, it took a few experiments where all I got was caked CYA on

the floor of the pool before I figured out the physical chemistry

of a substance that turns into instant cement with water!

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2898/1...2c16a580_b.jpg



Apparently the cyanuric acid is slow to dissolve because of the

amount of energy it takes for water to dislodge a CYA molecule

from its crystal structure (analogous to an activation energy for

chemical reactions).

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2911/1...b14c9b48_b.jpg



The rate of dissolving has a far greater dependence on the

surface area of the granules and on the circulation of

water around them. Finely crushed CYA dissolves more quickly

than the retail granules, though it is so light that it can't

readily break the surface tension of water and ends up floating

on the surface when I apply it by shaking it out of a dry net:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5113/1...9d55434f_b.jpg



So, I learned a lot about how the pros apply cyanuric acid

powder (which, I might add, isn't easy to buy because it's not

apparently sold to the general public):

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3754/1...f9945a46_b.jpg


Most folks use the regular CYA, not powder, put it in a nylon
stocking or old tee shirt and toss it in the skimmer. It still takes
a long time, week+ to dissolve. Another theory is just add it to
the skimmer, let it wind up in the filter and the water will supposedly
dissolve it there as long as you're not backwashing anything soon.
I've never done it that way, because I figure after it goes into the
filter, it could be soon covered up by some other debris and might
not dissolve. But folks who do it that way have measured in the pool
and according to them it works.

Actually, it's not much of a problem here in the northeast. Between
pumping out rainwater, backwashing, winterizing, etc about the right
amount of wate gets taken out so that using trichlor the cya stays in
the right range and you typically don't have to add any, unless you're
draining/refilling like you did.

Danny D. posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


Tekkie® wrote, on Wed, 28 May 2014 19:27:16 -0400:

I'll be over for my yearly dip.

It's almost ready for your annual dip!

So far, it has taken three weeks (elapsed time) to almost fill
the pool from the well water because the well just couldn't put
out more than about a thousand or two thousand gallons without
running dry.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3721/1...804dcb1c_b.jpg

I've snaked all the bottom drains, popups, and side vents:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2922/1...63173085_b.jpg

One huge technical problem I just solved today was how to
dissolve 12 pounds of professional cyanuric acid powder in
one sitting!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3717/1...d6f33721_b.jpg

As you may know, CYA has a low solubility in water (2g/l@25ºC).
That means only 1/10th of a pound can dissolve in my 5g bucket:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5517/1...f36835bd_b.jpg

After making a few mistakes, I realized is that this professional
powder cannot be applied wet, as the retail granules are!

It must be applied dry!
Otherwise it cakes instantly!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5159/1...2b59f88c_b.jpg

I finally figured out how to keep the cyanuric acid powder in
a suspension, so that it can be poured into the pool like milk!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2901/1...c71a9dd0_b.jpg

The result is a dispersing "cloud" of water-separated particles:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3799/1...6f8fb243_b.jpg

But, it took a few experiments where all I got was caked CYA on
the floor of the pool before I figured out the physical chemistry
of a substance that turns into instant cement with water!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2898/1...2c16a580_b.jpg

Apparently the cyanuric acid is slow to dissolve because of the
amount of energy it takes for water to dislodge a CYA molecule
from its crystal structure (analogous to an activation energy for
chemical reactions).
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2911/1...b14c9b48_b.jpg

The rate of dissolving has a far greater dependence on the
surface area of the granules and on the circulation of
water around them. Finely crushed CYA dissolves more quickly
than the retail granules, though it is so light that it can't
readily break the surface tension of water and ends up floating
on the surface when I apply it by shaking it out of a dry net:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5113/1...9d55434f_b.jpg

So, I learned a lot about how the pros apply cyanuric acid
powder (which, I might add, isn't easy to buy because it's not
apparently sold to the general public):
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3754/1...f9945a46_b.jpg


Let me know!

--
Tekkie Cow farts cause global warming - Andrea Tantaros on The Five

Oren posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


On Fri, 30 May 2014 05:23:26 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Here's a 'before' shot:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3701/1...27d69c41_c.jpg

Do you think I can grow huckleberries in that green pool?

No, but you could start a fish farm

?The Garden Pool was a large run-down pool that is now a closed-loop
food production system using aquaponics and is powered by solar
energy. The GP was designed to feed a family of four with organic
eggs, fruit, veggies, herbs, and fish 365 days a year while using 90%
less water than conventional farming methods."

w/video:

https://tinyurl.com/ockbltt

Come on don't give us that baloney! You are growing herb.

--
Tekkie

On 5/28/2014 1:45 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Just to keep you wonderful guys updated about the huckleberries ...

I finally emptied the pool, cleaned out the muck, and started filling
it from the well, and then, just today, solved, the problem of adding
cyanuric acid professional "powder" (not the "retail" granules!) and
am in the middle of figuring out to get the equipment back running.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2905/1...c761128e_b.jpg

Whew!

Lots of approached failed miserably, while only a few worked.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3775/1...e40a3c18_b.jpg

But, in the end, the combination of successful methods resulted
in a pool that is almost ready to be turned on for the summer!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2938/1...136dcef2_b.jpg

Thanks!

I highly recommend adding borate. It's enabled me to drastically reduce
the pump run time while maintaining a clear pool with optimal ph level
and optimal chlorine level.

http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/4655-So-you-want-to-add-borates-to-your-pool-Why-and-How

The more expensive, easier, way is to buy a product like Pool Proof
http://nisuscorp.com/pool-spa/products/poolproof.

The cheaper, harder way, is to use 20 Mule Team Borax powder and acid.

gonjah wrote, on Fri, 30 May 2014 07:12:44 -0500:

It says 200ppm for Calcium, which is pretty good for a pool, I think.
I'd think so too. That's the water hardness right out of the well?

Yup. That's pure California groundwater, at 200ppm Calcium.

The well had a tough time keeping up with the load though. I think I
started filling the pool in the first week of May, optimistically
measuring the flow at 5 gallons a minute per garden hose:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2896/1...68cc41be_b.jpg

But, it took until the end of May before the water level was high
enough to reach the skimmers in order to turn on the equipment:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3814/1...f48b9f56_b.jpg

I had the opposite problem. The previous owners were using soft
water to refill the pool and the plaster got pitted.

I see. That's what everyone seems to be worried about, but,
"my" plaster is the opposite of pitted. It has scratchy sand grains
of Calcium on the walls, and on anything left in the pool for a
long time:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2897/1...309bd6e3_b.jpg

I thought adding calcium might reverse the problem but the pool
store guys said that it doesn't work like that. So I refinished
the pool.

Wow. Refinishing is a lot of work. I was tempted to wash the pool
walls with muriatic acid, to get rid of the calcium sand grains,
but, I decided to do that next year instead.

sms wrote, on Fri, 30 May 2014 17:42:32 -0700:

I highly recommend adding borate. It's enabled me to drastically reduce
the pump run time while maintaining a clear pool with optimal ph level
and optimal chlorine level.

http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/4655-So-you-want-to-add-borates-to-your-pool-Why-and-How

Hi SMS,
I was wondering where you were lately.

You had turned me on to the 12% HASA liquid chlorine deal a few years
ago, which has, unfortunately, gotten more complicated lately than
just printing a coupon off their web site.

I don't know if you've been there, but, now, you pay, in the end,
about $3.85 for a gallon of liquid chlorine, but the 'deal' is
complicated because you first buy 6 gallons, and then you get 2
gallons free with a printable coupon; but then you get a card
marked off, which says "buy 11, get the next one free".

I can never do the math anymore, but the pool guys told me it
turns out to something like $3.85 per gallon. You know when
you get confused when you're buying something that they made
it confusing on purpose.

Anyway, my biggest problem was that I didn't have enough
water to fill the pool in one shot!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5454/1...1bb9e146_b.jpg

In fact, it took about three weeks to fill the pool to the level
that the skimmers could work without the pumps sucking air:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2897/1...309bd6e3_b.jpg

That I needed tons of chlorine, which was just being burnt off
by the sun, until I figured out the trick to adding POWDERED
(not granular!) cyanuric acid such that a dozen pounds of the
cya powder dissolved in the pool water in just one application!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3799/1...6f8fb243_b.jpg

Those 'clouds' in that picture above are *in* the water, not
above the water. It's a beautiful sight to see as anyone who
has waited eons for granules of CYA to dissolve will appreciate.

My *biggest* problem is that this Craftsman 1/2 HP pump wouldn't
pump water except at a dribble!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3791/1...9729f003_b.jpg

I'm sure there is something wrong with it, as I spent more
time priming it than it did pumping. It wouldn't develop a head
of more than about a foot, which seems dismal for a half horsepower.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2930/1...d92c725c_b.jpg

Does anyone know what goes wrong with such a pump which makes
it almost useless since it can only pump level (i.e., it couldn't
bring water *out* of the pool, so I had to hand carry the water
out from the deep end!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3734/1...05700dc5_b.jpg

I don't want to do *that* ever again, so I should figure out
how to figure out what is wrong with the 1/2HP Craftsman pump!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5466/1...13d4a257_b.jpg

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 9:32:29 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
sms wrote, on Fri, 30 May 2014 17:42:32 -0700:



I highly recommend adding borate. It's enabled me to drastically reduce

the pump run time while maintaining a clear pool with optimal ph level

and optimal chlorine level.



http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/4655-So-you-want-to-add-borates-to-your-pool-Why-and-How



Hi SMS,

I was wondering where you were lately.



You had turned me on to the 12% HASA liquid chlorine deal a few years

ago, which has, unfortunately, gotten more complicated lately than

just printing a coupon off their web site.



I don't know if you've been there, but, now, you pay, in the end,

about $3.85 for a gallon of liquid chlorine, but the 'deal' is

complicated because you first buy 6 gallons, and then you get 2

gallons free with a printable coupon; but then you get a card

marked off, which says "buy 11, get the next one free".



I can never do the math anymore, but the pool guys told me it

turns out to something like $3.85 per gallon. You know when

you get confused when you're buying something that they made

it confusing on purpose.



Anyway, my biggest problem was that I didn't have enough

water to fill the pool in one shot!

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5454/1...1bb9e146_b.jpg



In fact, it took about three weeks to fill the pool to the level

that the skimmers could work without the pumps sucking air:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2897/1...309bd6e3_b.jpg



That I needed tons of chlorine, which was just being burnt off

by the sun, until I figured out the trick to adding POWDERED

(not granular!) cyanuric acid such that a dozen pounds of the

cya powder dissolved in the pool water in just one application!

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3799/1...6f8fb243_b.jpg



Those 'clouds' in that picture above are *in* the water, not

above the water. It's a beautiful sight to see as anyone who

has waited eons for granules of CYA to dissolve will appreciate.



My *biggest* problem is that this Craftsman 1/2 HP pump wouldn't

pump water except at a dribble!

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3791/1...9729f003_b.jpg



I'm sure there is something wrong with it, as I spent more

time priming it than it did pumping. It wouldn't develop a head

of more than about a foot, which seems dismal for a half horsepower.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2930/1...d92c725c_b.jpg



Does anyone know what goes wrong with such a pump which makes

it almost useless since it can only pump level (i.e., it couldn't

bring water *out* of the pool, so I had to hand carry the water

out from the deep end!

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3734/1...05700dc5_b.jpg



I don't want to do *that* ever again, so I should figure out

how to figure out what is wrong with the 1/2HP Craftsman pump!

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5466/1...13d4a257_b.jpg

From my earlier reply:

I'm not sure what the lift capability of those utility
type pumps are. You have it connected to a long suction
hose that probably does down 10 ft to the bottom of the
pool? It would probably work better if the pump was
where the water is and had only a short suction hose.
It can probably push water better than it can pull it.

On 5/31/2014 6:32 AM, Danny D. wrote:
sms wrote, on Fri, 30 May 2014 17:42:32 -0700:

I highly recommend adding borate. It's enabled me to drastically reduce
the pump run time while maintaining a clear pool with optimal ph level
and optimal chlorine level.

http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/4655-So-you-want-to-add-borates-to-your-pool-Why-and-How

Hi SMS,
I was wondering where you were lately.

You had turned me on to the 12% HASA liquid chlorine deal a few years
ago, which has, unfortunately, gotten more complicated lately than
just printing a coupon off their web site.

I don't know if you've been there, but, now, you pay, in the end,
about $3.85 for a gallon of liquid chlorine, but the 'deal' is
complicated because you first buy 6 gallons, and then you get 2
gallons free with a printable coupon; but then you get a card
marked off, which says "buy 11, get the next one free".

Yeah, it's a pain in the butt. They said it was because Hasa changed
ownership and the new owners aren't offering the stores the same
promotions as in the past. I rarely require so much chlorine so unless I
share eight gallons with my neighbor I'm back to buying the two gallons
in the box. I'm using a lot less chlorine now because of the borates.

Anyway, my biggest problem was that I didn't have enough
water to fill the pool in one shot!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5454/1...1bb9e146_b.jpg

But you should be happy that you're not paying for the water.

In fact, it took about three weeks to fill the pool to the level
that the skimmers could work without the pumps sucking air:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2897/1...309bd6e3_b.jpg

That I needed tons of chlorine, which was just being burnt off
by the sun, until I figured out the trick to adding POWDERED
(not granular!) cyanuric acid such that a dozen pounds of the
cya powder dissolved in the pool water in just one application!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3799/1...6f8fb243_b.jpg

Those 'clouds' in that picture above are *in* the water, not
above the water. It's a beautiful sight to see as anyone who
has waited eons for granules of CYA to dissolve will appreciate.

My *biggest* problem is that this Craftsman 1/2 HP pump wouldn't
pump water except at a dribble!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3791/1...9729f003_b.jpg

I'm sure there is something wrong with it, as I spent more
time priming it than it did pumping. It wouldn't develop a head
of more than about a foot, which seems dismal for a half horsepower.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2930/1...d92c725c_b.jpg

Does anyone know what goes wrong with such a pump which makes
it almost useless since it can only pump level (i.e., it couldn't
bring water *out* of the pool, so I had to hand carry the water
out from the deep end!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3734/1...05700dc5_b.jpg

I use a Harbor Freight pump for draining. I think the seals dry out on
unused pumps. The two times I've drained the pool have been with new
pumps since after I drain it, the pump sits unused for about seven years.

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-horsepower-submersible-dirty-water-pump-with-float-69300.html.
Then a 25% off coupon so it's less than $48. I would have let you borrow
it. I adapted it to the pool hose and pump the water into a downstairs
toilet because I can't find the access to the sewer in the yard (I'm
sure it's buried there somewhere). My neighbor said I could use his but
he has never been able to get it open.


I don't want to do *that* ever again, so I should figure out
how to figure out what is wrong with the 1/2HP Craftsman pump!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5466/1...13d4a257_b.jpg

The key thing to remember when draining and refilling a pool is to
always drain the deep end first and refill the deep end first.

On 5/28/2014 3:11 PM, amdx wrote:

I'm one of those that would say, "I'll buy the house, if you fill in
the pool."

The way the real estate market is where Denny and I live a buyer would
never dare to say anything like that. There will be fifty other buyers
offering a cash deal and taking the house as-is. $10K to demolish the
pool would be a cost that would be lost in the noise.

On 5/28/2014 10:58 PM, Danny D. wrote:
gonjah wrote, on Wed, 28 May 2014 19:34:55 -0500:

I have a small backyard with a 10,000 gal pool and deck.
I think it's easier to care for than grass.

The maintenance task is a bit more difficult than most for me.

For one, I don't know why pill bugs LOVE my pool so much!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3742/1...ccf7a462_z.jpg

And, for another, I don't have any of the right tools.
For example, this is the only "pool vacuum" I own:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3775/1...e40a3c18_c.jpg

And, this Craftsman sump pump just impotently dribbles!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2930/1...d92c725c_z.jpg

It drives me crazy that 1/2 horsepower takes about an hour
to fill up a 5-gallon bucket when the inlet end is immersed
in water the entire time!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2902/1...e1770d6b_z.jpg

You'd think Craftsman tools would work better than that!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/14101828108/

Another maintenance task is applying the huge amount of
chlorine to the pool in various forms:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2908/1...5922732f_b.jpg

So, all in all, I wouldn't wish pool maintenance on my
worst enemy; but maybe I just need the right tools.

NOTE: If you have any idea WHY that 1/2 Horsepower Craftsman
pump sucks so badly, please let me know (because it makes
maintenance manual when it should be automatic!).

Your problems all feed on each other. If you fill the pool in one day
you don't need to be adding chlorine or CYA or calcium as you go along.
Do you have "city water" or just a well? It costs a lot to fill a pool
with "city water" but there are some advantages.

Where I grew up, in Florida, most houses had wells for sprinkler systems
but no one used that water for pool filling. And you couldn't really
drain your pool completely because it would pop out of the ground
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2013/10/11/pedraza-family-pool-pops-up/.

sms wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 07:46:48 -0700:

If you fill the pool in one day you don't need to be adding chlorine
or CYA or calcium as you go along.

Hi Steve,

You're my neighbor, so you know how potent the sun is out here!

I agree that had I filled the pool in a day, the 0 ppm of cyanuric acid
wouldn't have been as much a problem of the chlorine disappearing every
day.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2908/1...5922732f_b.jpg

But, since I filled the pool over a period of three weeks, it was
eating a few gallons of 12% liquid chlorine a day, and it still had zero
ppm chlorine every time I tested a day thereafter.

That unexpected (expensive) problem was resolved in two days, with
a dozen pounds of cyanuric acid *powder*. Note this is the restricted
powder, which is the same chemical as the granules, only it's a bone
white *powder*.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3681/1...f4ef8f92_b.jpg

The problem with the powder is that it instantly turns into cement
the moment it smells water, so, it can coat your lungs in a second!
Notice what happened here, as it caked into a brick with water:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5159/1...2b59f88c_b.jpg

Do you have "city water" or just a well? It costs a lot to fill a pool
with "city water" but there are some advantages.

It costs a lot from a well also, as electricity is something like
45 cents a KWH (as you are aware0.

It's a well.

Where I grew up, in Florida, most houses had wells for sprinkler systems
but no one used that water for pool filling. And you couldn't really
drain your pool completely because it would pop out of the ground
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2013/10/11/pedraza-family-pool-pops-up/.

I am always worried about those popping-out-of-the-ground scare stories,
but, it seems dry enough here that the bigger danger is the plaster
drying out:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2898/1...19f60787_b.jpg

sms wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 07:34:45 -0700:

The way the real estate market is where Denny and I live a buyer would
never dare to say anything like that. There will be fifty other buyers
offering a cash deal and taking the house as-is. $10K to demolish the
pool would be a cost that would be lost in the noise.

Heh heh ... I agree with you.

A guy nearby bought a house here and put in $700K of renovations just to
make the place livable!

sms wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 07:25:48 -0700:

Yeah, it's a pain in the butt. They said it was because Hasa changed
ownership and the new owners aren't offering the stores the same
promotions as in the past.

Hi Steve,

You know, those two guys who work there? They scare me. I don't know
if I believe a thing they say. But, they told me that HASA didn't
like them undercutting everyone else, so, it's a relatively similar
story to what they told you.

I've learned never to show up at 10am opening time for them.
About half the time, they don't arrive there until 11am. So you
(and a few others) wait in the parking lot for them to arrive.

They tell me they do that when "Dave" (whoever that is) is on
vacation. Dunno what is going on, but it always seems fishy.

Also, when I pay cash, the cash register drawer opens, but, nothing
gets rung up. Now, you don't have to tell me what that means, but,
if they're not paying their taxes, they shouldn't be charging *me*
the $1.80 for the tax on the case of "free" chlorine they're giving
me (for buying many gallons).

Same thing, by the way, with Vito's Pizza over on Lawrence and Reed,
but that's another story altogether!

Anyway, I love the liquid chlorine deal you turned me on to,
simply because I use a lot of the stuff!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3678/1...18e5582b_b.jpg

I rarely require so much chlorine so unless I share eight gallons with
my neighbor I'm back to buying the two gallons in the box.
I'm using a lot less chlorine now because of the borates.

Maybe I should try the BBB method myself!

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 2:27:17 PM UTC-4, DannyD. wrote:
sms wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 07:46:48 -0700:



If you fill the pool in one day you don't need to be adding chlorine

or CYA or calcium as you go along.



Hi Steve,



You're my neighbor, so you know how potent the sun is out here!



I agree that had I filled the pool in a day, the 0 ppm of cyanuric acid

wouldn't have been as much a problem of the chlorine disappearing every

day.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2908/1...5922732f_b.jpg



But, since I filled the pool over a period of three weeks, it was

eating a few gallons of 12% liquid chlorine a day, and it still had zero

ppm chlorine every time I tested a day thereafter.



That unexpected (expensive) problem was resolved in two days, with

a dozen pounds of cyanuric acid *powder*. Note this is the restricted

powder, which is the same chemical as the granules, only it's a bone

white *powder*.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3681/1...f4ef8f92_b.jpg



The problem with the powder is that it instantly turns into cement

the moment it smells water, so, it can coat your lungs in a second!

Notice what happened here, as it caked into a brick with water:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5159/1...2b59f88c_b.jpg



Do you have "city water" or just a well? It costs a lot to fill a pool

with "city water" but there are some advantages.



It costs a lot from a well also, as electricity is something like

45 cents a KWH (as you are aware0.



It's a well.



Where I grew up, in Florida, most houses had wells for sprinkler systems

but no one used that water for pool filling. And you couldn't really

drain your pool completely because it would pop out of the ground

http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2013/10/11/pedraza-family-pool-pops-up/.



I am always worried about those popping-out-of-the-ground scare stories,

but, it seems dry enough here that the bigger danger is the plaster

drying out:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2898/1...19f60787_b.jpg

salt waters better

sms wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 07:25:48 -0700:

I use a Harbor Freight pump for draining. I think the seals dry out on
unused pumps. The two times I've drained the pool have been with new
pumps since after I drain it, the pump sits unused for about seven years.

Hmmm... that might be the problem then, because this Craftsman 1/2HP pump
just won't pump. I don't remember how it pumped when new, but, I don't
remember it being anemic at that time. So, maybe I just need 'new seals'.

Googling for "Craftsman U27-1358, 1/2 Horsepower portable utility sprinkler
pump", I find it for $175 he
http://searsoutlet.com/1-2-hp-Portab...92&mode=seeAll

According to the specs at that web page, it's supposed to pump 9.3 gallons
a minute, but I'd be lucky to get that in an hour!

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-horsepower-submersible-dirty-water-pump-with-float-69300.html.
Then a 25% off coupon so it's less than $48.

Wow. That's a huge amount cheaper than my sprinkler pump (whatever a
sprinkler pump means).

The key thing to remember when draining and refilling a pool is to
always drain the deep end first and refill the deep end first.

???

I'm not sure if you're joking, or if that's a typo, or what.
There is no way to drain either end of a pool, that I know of.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2931/1...8c586110_b.jpg

It's all just one pool (with a sloped floor):
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2898/1...19f60787_b.jpg

It fills at the deep end first, but, that's only because no matter
*where* you fill it from, the whole thing is sloped to the deep
end (since the entire pool is built around the cleaning system).
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3785/1...58d60248_b.jpg

On 5/31/2014 11:40 AM, DannyD. wrote:
sms wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 07:25:48 -0700:

Yeah, it's a pain in the butt. They said it was because Hasa changed
ownership and the new owners aren't offering the stores the same
promotions as in the past.

Hi Steve,

You know, those two guys who work there? They scare me. I don't know
if I believe a thing they say. But, they told me that HASA didn't
like them undercutting everyone else, so, it's a relatively similar
story to what they told you.

LOL, they are some strange dudes that's for sure.

What I believe is what they tell me they use in the pools that they
service. Ask them what's in those ginormous plastic tanks on the
pallets, it's the bulk chemicals they use for pool servicing. Orenda
CV700 or PR10000. Depending on lunar tides they might sell you some in
your own container but they have no idea how to price it.

I think that their pool service business is based on liquid chlorine,
liquid acid, phosphate remover (PR-10000), and borate (Pool Perfect).

I've learned never to show up at 10am opening time for them.
About half the time, they don't arrive there until 11am. So you
(and a few others) wait in the parking lot for them to arrive.

Yep, I've run into that exact thing. They have no set hours for the
store. My feeling is that the retail store is almost an annoyance and
that the big money is in pool service. Once you have a pool balanced,
and you've got Pool Perfect or borax in the water, there's very little
work to do for weekly service, especially if the owner has an automatic
cleaner, and especially if they have a chlorine feeder or salt system.
Yet in Saratoga not a lot of people want to maintain their own pool and
$75/month is chump change.

They tell me they do that when "Dave" (whoever that is) is on
vacation. Dunno what is going on, but it always seems fishy.

Also, when I pay cash, the cash register drawer opens, but, nothing
gets rung up. Now, you don't have to tell me what that means, but,
if they're not paying their taxes, they shouldn't be charging *me*
the $1.80 for the tax on the case of "free" chlorine they're giving
me (for buying many gallons).

Yeah, see the same thing at a lot of small restaurants.

On Sat, 31 May 2014 18:40:47 +0000 (UTC), "DannyD."
wrote:

Maybe I should try the BBB method myself!

I'm starting it. Got a pro test kit. (Taylor K-2005C)

This guy is in your area...he has a great channel.

https://tinyurl.com/nunvmf2

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsvsTjbpoT-drUUezN9ECDj239FX_rV2a

On Fri, 30 May 2014 20:25:44 -0400, Tekkie®
wrote:

Oren posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


On Fri, 30 May 2014 05:23:26 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Here's a 'before' shot:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3701/1...27d69c41_c.jpg

Do you think I can grow huckleberries in that green pool?

No, but you could start a fish farm

?The Garden Pool was a large run-down pool that is now a closed-loop
food production system using aquaponics and is powered by solar
energy. The GP was designed to feed a family of four with organic
eggs, fruit, veggies, herbs, and fish 365 days a year while using 90%
less water than conventional farming methods."

w/video:

https://tinyurl.com/ockbltt

Come on don't give us that baloney! You are growing herb.

No I'm not. But if I did, it would be completely legal. By law I
could grow for those with a card - as non-card holder.

On Sat, 31 May 2014 19:40:57 +0000 (UTC), "DannyD."
wrote:

Danny,

Have a look at the "Little Giant Big John Submersible Pump" @ HD.

Mine is 1/4 HP and does a good job for my 10,000 gallon pool. Has a
25' cord, connects to garden hose.

sms wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 14:49:01 -0700:

Ask them what's in those ginormous plastic tanks on the
pallets, it's the bulk chemicals they use for pool servicing.

The fact they service pools with HASA liquid chlorine is one
reason I believe that their 12% chlorine if fresh.

And, they sold me on the CYA *powder*, which is what their service
guys use (because they can raise the CYA from 0 to 40 in one visit).

After a few experiments, I learned how to use the powder, but,
I see instantly why the professionals use it but not the retail shops!

Yep, I've run into that exact thing. They have no set hours for the
store. My feeling is that the retail store is almost an annoyance and
that the big money is in pool service.

That might explain why they don't even *post* the hours *anywhere*
in the store! There is no sign on the outside (IIRC), so you just
have to have a leap of faith that they'll show up at their verbally
stated opening time!

It's almost like it's the old Andy Griffith hardware store model
of Mayberry RFD, only it's Saratoga California!

Once you have a pool balanced, and you've got Pool Perfect or borax
in the water, there's very little work to do for weekly service

I don't use borax, but maybe I should!
I'll have to read about the BBB method s'more.

Yet in Saratoga not a lot of people want to maintain their own pool
and $75/month is chump change.

When you're paying over $100 a day in just property taxes, the
$75 isn't all that much! But they are missing out on all the fun!

Yeah, see the same thing at a lot of small restaurants.

I don't mind retail places not paying their taxes, but, I do mind
them charging *me* to pay a tax they are not actually paying!

Oren wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 15:30:07 -0700:

I'm starting it. Got a pro test kit. (Taylor K-2005C)
This guy is in your area...he has a great channel.
https://tinyurl.com/nunvmf2
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsvsTjbpoT-drUUezN9ECDj239FX_rV2a

Thanks for the URLS to the Beach/Baking Soda/Borax BBB sites.


I was going to pick up the TF-100 but never got around to it, so I'm
just using a basic test kit at the moment (which doesn't give me CC
levels).

However, since my CYA levels are 40ppm, I need to keep my free chlorine
at 5ppm as a goal (and up to 23ppm for algae), as described in chem_geek's
absolutely fantastic FC-to-CYA charts over he
http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...rine-CYA-Chart

DannyD. wrote, on Sun, 01 Jun 2014 12:24:30 +0000:

Thanks for the URLS to the Beach/Baking Soda/Borax BBB sites.

I just realized they renamed BBB to TFPC ...
http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-for-Beginners

On 6/1/2014 5:16 AM, DannyD. wrote:

snip

I don't mind retail places not paying their taxes, but, I do mind
them charging *me* to pay a tax they are not actually paying!

And it's both sales tax and income tax that they end up not paying.

I was with a group in a restaurant once and one person in the group was
an IRS auditor. She was off-duty, but she was watching the cashier
collect money and not ring it up. Since it was my girlfriend's uncle's
restaurant I hope that she didn't report them.

On Sat, 31 May 2014 18:27:17 +0000 (UTC), "DannyD."
wrote:

http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2013/10/11/pedraza-family-pool-pops-up/.

I am always worried about those popping-out-of-the-ground scare stories,
but, it seems dry enough here that the bigger danger is the plaster
drying out:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2898/1...19f60787_b.jpg

Before I completely drained my pool, for an acid wash, I checked the
local water table via geologic maps. My water table is ~ 400 ft.
below the surface. No worry here

On Sat, 31 May 2014 13:12:52 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3814/1...f48b9f56_b.jpg

Curious, Danny. Is the decking at the end being repaired or an access
for equipment that is open?

....just wonderin'