My DW, approx 2 years old, is a Whirlpool. Not high end. Invoice read: WH-WDFS1DPAYW, whatever the hell THAT means. (Bottom of invoice said don't rely on number!) If it helps, DW with tax & installation, was $608.

It has NEVER dried dishes properly; particularly cutlery in door basket is always wet.

When DW was installed, I studied the manual and set my preferences as follows:

NORMAL HIGH TEMP SANI-RINSE HEAT DRY.

I just re-consulted manual. It advises using rinse aid to get dishes dry. (I did that at first when using package of powdered detergent.)

But manual also advises using the little "pillows" or packets of detergent.
I switched to packets from Costco long ago; box says packets *contain rinse aid.*

Whatthehell??!!

All I want is dry damn dishes & cutlery.

Any advice?

TIA

HB

On Mon, 26 May 2014 11:59:08 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:

All I want is dry damn dishes & cutlery.

Any advice?

Why did you wait 2 years to complain about it now? I married my
dishwasher 28 years ago and have not gotten one single complaint. I
even have a mechanical dishwasher for backup.
--
"The definition of a liberal, a liberal is somebody that doesn't care what you do as long as it's mandatory". -- Charles Krauthammer

On Monday, May 26, 2014 2:59:08 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:
My DW, approx 2 years old, is a Whirlpool. Not high end. Invoice read: WH-WDFS1DPAYW, whatever the hell THAT means. (Bottom of invoice said don't rely on number!) If it helps, DW with tax & installation, was $608.



It has NEVER dried dishes properly; particularly cutlery in door basket is always wet.



When DW was installed, I studied the manual and set my preferences as follows:



NORMAL HIGH TEMP SANI-RINSE HEAT DRY.



I just re-consulted manual. It advises using rinse aid to get dishes dry. (I did that at first when using package of powdered detergent.)



But manual also advises using the little "pillows" or packets of detergent.

I switched to packets from Costco long ago; box says packets *contain rinse aid.*



Whatthehell??!!



All I want is dry damn dishes & cutlery.



Any advice?



TIA



HB

my whirpool dishwasher is less than a year old, so far the main control panel faied and was replaced, then it quit drying dishes.....

the load i just removed was still wet. I just loaded the machine again but will call for more warranty service if they arent dry.....

frankly I think whirpool dishwashers are junk, I am going to stop at lowes tomorrow and talk with the store manager about having them replace the unit..

everyone is making everything so on the cheap its sad......

On Monday, May 26, 2014 2:59:08 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:
My DW, approx 2 years old, is a Whirlpool. Not high end. Invoice read: WH-WDFS1DPAYW, whatever the hell THAT means. (Bottom of invoice said don't rely on number!) If it helps, DW with tax & installation, was $608.



It has NEVER dried dishes properly; particularly cutlery in door basket is always wet.



When DW was installed, I studied the manual and set my preferences as follows:



NORMAL HIGH TEMP SANI-RINSE HEAT DRY.



I just re-consulted manual. It advises using rinse aid to get dishes dry. (I did that at first when using package of powdered detergent.)



But manual also advises using the little "pillows" or packets of detergent.

I switched to packets from Costco long ago; box says packets *contain rinse aid.*



Whatthehell??!!



All I want is dry damn dishes & cutlery.



Any advice?



TIA



HB

I never use the dry setting. When it's done, I just crack
open the door 6 inches or more and let the hot steam out.
A lot of the water goes out and I leave the door open until
it dries out, several hours or overnight, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised that the issue with the heated
dry option is that they are trying to meet govt mandates
for energy efficiency. Heated dry is going to hurt energy
efficiency, so they probably minimize it, where years ago
they ran it long enough to make sure they were dry.

Higgs,

Check the heating element.

Dave M.

On Monday, May 26, 2014 5:00:04 PM UTC-7, bob haller wrote:
On Monday, May 26, 2014 2:59:08 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:

It has NEVER dried dishes properly; particularly cutlery in door basket is always wet.

[...]

my whirpool dishwasher is less than a year old, so far the main control panel faied and was replaced, then it quit drying dishes.....


the load i just removed was still wet. I just loaded the machine again but will call for more warranty service if they arent dry.....

frankly I think whirpool dishwashers are junk, I am going to stop at lowes tomorrow and talk with the store manager about having them replace the unit..

everyone is making everything so on the cheap its sad......

YOU ARE SO RIGHT!

The dishwasher before this one was a KitchenAid. A tank! Ran for 13 years with never a sneeze. Then hot water wouldn't go in. I FOOLISHLY thought it would be too expensive to pay for repairs ??? so for the next 4 years I handwashed.

Then circumstances dictated that I get a new DW, so I had the old one taken out. Guess why hot water wasn't going in? A ****ing MOUSE had chewed holes in the ****ing hot water hose!!!! Easily replaced for small bux!!!

I am still banging my head against the wall for sacrificing that great old KitchenAid for this plastic POS. KA would have run forever; was well made!!!
With 20-20 hindsight....!!!

HB

On Monday, May 26, 2014 5:05:24 PM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, May 26, 2014 2:59:08 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:

[...]

I never use the dry setting. When it's done, I just crack

open the door 6 inches or more and let the hot steam out.

A lot of the water goes out

What does that mean? "A lot..." has it drained?

and I leave the door open until

it dries out, several hours or overnight, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised that the issue with the heated

dry option is that they are trying to meet govt mandates

for energy efficiency. Heated dry is going to hurt energy

efficiency, so they probably minimize it, where years ago

they ran it long enough to make sure they were dry.

Hmmm...verry interesting. Where can I check further into your suggestion?

HB

On 5/26/2014 8:05 PM, trader_4 wrote:

I never use the dry setting. When it's done, I just crack
open the door 6 inches or more and let the hot steam out.
A lot of the water goes out and I leave the door open until
it dries out, several hours or overnight, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised that the issue with the heated
dry option is that they are trying to meet govt mandates
for energy efficiency. Heated dry is going to hurt energy
efficiency, so they probably minimize it, where years ago
they ran it long enough to make sure they were dry.


Your method works if you are there to open the door when the cycle is
done.

Our new Kitchen Aid has heat as an option, but we use it all the time.
It has a Pro Wash and Pro Dry setting and does it all automatic. With
Cascade Platinum, dishes come out perfect and sparkling. But I also
paid 3X what the OP paid so it damned well better do a good job.

Oh, the new machines are energy saving, but take longer. Cycle is about
4 hours.

my non working heat dry also prevents the water from heating to clean during the wash cycle. the heater and thermistor have both been replaced once

On Monday, May 26, 2014 8:26:46 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Monday, May 26, 2014 5:05:24 PM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, May 26, 2014 2:59:08 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:



[...]



I never use the dry setting. When it's done, I just crack



open the door 6 inches or more and let the hot steam out.



A lot of the water goes out



What does that mean? "A lot..." has it drained?


Of course it's drained. But it's still hot and when
you open the door a lot of the remaining water comes
out as moist hot air. You get all that hot wet
air out and it gets replaced by normal air, helping
to dry the dishes out while they are still hot.
When they are hot, any water on them is going to
evaporate faster. Then you just leave it open for
a few hours or overnight and they are dry. No dry
cycle needed.








and I leave the door open until



it dries out, several hours or overnight, etc.



I wouldn't be surprised that the issue with the heated



dry option is that they are trying to meet govt mandates



for energy efficiency. Heated dry is going to hurt energy



efficiency, so they probably minimize it, where years ago



they ran it long enough to make sure they were dry.



Hmmm...verry interesting. Where can I check further into your suggestion?



HB

Check more? Just try it.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/26/2014 8:05 PM, trader_4 wrote:

I never use the dry setting. When it's done, I just crack
open the door 6 inches or more and let the hot steam out.
A lot of the water goes out and I leave the door open until
it dries out, several hours or overnight, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised that the issue with the heated
dry option is that they are trying to meet govt mandates
for energy efficiency. Heated dry is going to hurt energy
efficiency, so they probably minimize it, where years ago
they ran it long enough to make sure they were dry.


Your method works if you are there to open the door when the cycle is done.

Our new Kitchen Aid has heat as an option, but we use it all the time.
It has a Pro Wash and Pro Dry setting and does it all automatic. With
Cascade Platinum, dishes come out perfect and sparkling. But I also
paid 3X what the OP paid so it damned well better do a good job.

Oh, the new machines are energy saving, but take longer. Cycle is about
4 hours.
Hi,
Our Whirlpool DW lasted 20 years and was still running well when
replaced. Only thing in 20 years it needed new motor/pump assembly I
paid 40.00 at eBay. Now new one is Bosch which is dead quiet when running.
We just use normal wash cycle and cleans, drys very well. We did not
want cutlery basket on the door tho.

On 5/26/2014 8:24 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Monday, May 26, 2014 5:00:04 PM UTC-7, bob haller wrote:
On Monday, May 26, 2014 2:59:08 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:

It has NEVER dried dishes properly; particularly cutlery in door basket is always wet.

[...]

my whirpool dishwasher is less than a year old, so far the main control panel faied and was replaced, then it quit drying dishes.....


the load i just removed was still wet. I just loaded the machine again but will call for more warranty service if they arent dry.....

frankly I think whirpool dishwashers are junk, I am going to stop at lowes tomorrow and talk with the store manager about having them replace the unit..

everyone is making everything so on the cheap its sad......

YOU ARE SO RIGHT!

The dishwasher before this one was a KitchenAid. A tank! Ran for 13 years with never a sneeze. Then hot water wouldn't go in. I FOOLISHLY thought it would be too expensive to pay for repairs ??? so for the next 4 years I handwashed.

Then circumstances dictated that I get a new DW, so I had the old one taken out. Guess why hot water wasn't going in? A ****ing MOUSE had chewed holes in the ****ing hot water hose!!!! Easily replaced for small bux!!!

I am still banging my head against the wall for sacrificing that great old KitchenAid for this plastic POS. KA would have run forever; was well made!!!
With 20-20 hindsight....!!!

HB

Funny thing. We've always had KAs in our previous house. But, each one
kept lasting fewer and fewer years. The 1st one lasted 23 years. The
last one, actually the 3rd, less than 5 years. It would have cost more
to fix it myself, than to replace it. KA actually gave me a $100
voucher to buy another KA. I did that and actually had to fix it a few
times before we moved. Now it's someone else's problem. In my new
house, now almost 5 years old, I have a WP, not top of the line. It is
the best dishwasher we've ever had, as far as cleaning. The only major
complaint is the silverware basket on the door. Because the new DWs
have a larger capacity, the door hinge is mounted much lower to the
floor, thus you almost have to sit on the floor to remove silverware.
If I had realized this, I would have had the cabinet maker mount it
higher, although you do loose some counter top space. I recommended
this to my niece, as she was building after me, and now likes the raised
DW. I realize that the basket is removable, with some difficulty, but
in either case, it's not ideal. So, I tie wrapped the basket to the
lower rack, and that seemed to fix some of the basket problems. I also
have an old KA basket which I use on the top rack for smaller stuff.
BTW, with the wonderful WP designed basket, you cannot put long items in
the left side of the basket because they will prevent the soap door from
opening! Nice going WP. As for drying, everything pretty much dries
with the exception of plastic. I wonder if rinse agent will help that?

On Monday, May 26, 2014 9:46:27 PM UTC-7, Tony Hwang wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/26/2014 8:05 PM, trader_4 wrote:


Your method works if you are there to open the door when the cycle is done.



Our new Kitchen Aid has heat as an option, but we use it all the time.

It has a Pro Wash and Pro Dry setting and does it all automatic. With

Cascade Platinum, dishes come out perfect and sparkling. But I also

paid 3X what the OP paid so it damned well better do a good job.



Oh, the new machines are energy saving, but take longer. Cycle is about

4 hours.

Too ****ing long! I NEED those dishes.

Hi,

Our Whirlpool DW lasted 20 years and was still running well when

replaced. Only thing in 20 years it needed new motor/pump assembly I

paid 40.00 at eBay. Now new one is Bosch which is dead quiet when running.

We just use normal wash cycle and cleans, drys very well. We did not

want cutlery basket on the door tho.

I didn't either! POS; always falling out & getting in the way.

Anybody think that door cutlery basket not getting dry is because of position???

HB

On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 5:42:17 AM UTC-7, Art Todesco wrote:
On 5/26/2014 8:24 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

On Monday, May 26, 2014 5:00:04 PM UTC-7, bob haller wrote:

On Monday, May 26, 2014 2:59:08 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:



It has NEVER dried dishes properly; particularly cutlery in door basket is always wet.



[...]



my whirpool dishwasher is less than a year old, so far the main control panel faied and was replaced, then it quit drying dishes.....





the load i just removed was still wet. I just loaded the machine again but will call for more warranty service if they arent dry.....



frankly I think whirpool dishwashers are junk, I am going to stop at lowes tomorrow and talk with the store manager about having them replace the unit..



everyone is making everything so on the cheap its sad......



YOU ARE SO RIGHT!



The dishwasher before this one was a KitchenAid. A tank! Ran for 13 years with never a sneeze. Then hot water wouldn't go in. I FOOLISHLY thought it would be too expensive to pay for repairs ??? so for the next 4 years I handwashed.



Then circumstances dictated that I get a new DW, so I had the old one taken out. Guess why hot water wasn't going in? A ****ing MOUSE had chewed holes in the ****ing hot water hose!!!! Easily replaced for small bux!!!



I am still banging my head against the wall for sacrificing that great old KitchenAid for this plastic POS. KA would have run forever; was well made!!!

With 20-20 hindsight....!!!



HB



Funny thing. We've always had KAs in our previous house. But, each one

kept lasting fewer and fewer years. The 1st one lasted 23 years. The

last one, actually the 3rd, less than 5 years. It would have cost more

to fix it myself, than to replace it. KA actually gave me a $100

voucher to buy another KA. I did that and actually had to fix it a few

times before we moved. Now it's someone else's problem. In my new

house, now almost 5 years old, I have a WP, not top of the line. It is

the best dishwasher we've ever had, as far as cleaning. The only major

complaint is the silverware basket on the door. Because the new DWs

have a larger capacity, the door hinge is mounted much lower to the

floor, thus you almost have to sit on the floor to remove silverware.

If I had realized this, I would have had the cabinet maker mount it

higher, although you do loose some counter top space. I recommended

this to my niece, as she was building after me, and now likes the raised

DW. I realize that the basket is removable, with some difficulty, but

in either case, it's not ideal. So, I tie wrapped the basket to the

lower rack, and that seemed to fix some of the basket problems. I also

have an old KA basket which I use on the top rack for smaller stuff.

BTW, with the wonderful WP designed basket, you cannot put long items in

the left side of the basket because they will prevent the soap door from

opening! Nice going WP. As for drying, everything pretty much dries

with the exception of plastic. I wonder if rinse agent will help that?

Art, that's what I was asking at the outset! To repeat: WP manual says:

1. Little packets of detergent work best.

2. Use rinse agent.

BUT

3. Costco little packets say they *contain* rinse agent.

Who's on first?

Guess I'll just have to buy (expensive) bottles of rinse agent to see if it helps.
But ISTR that wet cutlery problem dates from installation of new DW when I WAS
using rinse agent. OK, launching experiment.

BTW, any chemistry folks around who know just whatthehell is in "rinse agent"???

HB

On Tue, 27 May 2014 06:01:26 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:


I didn't either! POS; always falling out & getting in the way.

Anybody think that door cutlery basket not getting dry is because of position???

HB


A silverware basket in the door sounds like just about the stupidest
place for it; I'm sure there are reasons, but having everything
clatter around and fall as you open the door would be annoying, and it
can't possibly get them as clean as on the rack.

To second another suggestion; I'm pretty happy with our 12-year-old
Frigidaire Gallery dishwasher -- it's a higher end model with a
display showing the time remaining, which is GREAT, a feature I'd
never live without again.

I've never known a dishwasher that gets everything bone dry before
it's opened -- perhaps we just never had a good one when I was growing
up (we did have LOUD ones!), or perhaps it's the type of dishes
(dishes/cups with concave recesses when they're on the rack, and
plasticware are the most likely to have water in them). I don't
bother with the "power dry" at all; when I'm around I just pop the
door all the way open right after the last rinse (this is where the
time remaining is a huge benefit), pull out the racks and shake out
the things that have standing water. If the dishes are hot when I do
that, 15-30 minutes later everything's dry enough to put away. If I
do it the next day when it's cold, it can take hours for them to dry.

There are other philosophies (leave it closed, open it shake and
re-close, etc), but for me opening it all the way up and letting the
hot dishes evaporate into the relatively dry house works best.

This dishwasher takes ~90 minutes, and is reasonably quiet (can tell
that it's running in the same room, but not in the next). I wouldn't
trade it for those rumored 2-4 hour cycles some of the new ones take.
I don't need "pin-drop silent". So glad we've moved beyond the 1980s
Maytag "Rhuga Rhuga Rhuga" era that made us turn the TV up 2 rooms
away...

Josh

On 5/27/2014 9:07 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 5:42:17 AM UTC-7, Art Todesco wrote:
On 5/26/2014 8:24 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

On Monday, May 26, 2014 5:00:04 PM UTC-7, bob haller wrote:

On Monday, May 26, 2014 2:59:08 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:



It has NEVER dried dishes properly; particularly cutlery in door basket is always wet.



[...]



my whirpool dishwasher is less than a year old, so far the main control panel faied and was replaced, then it quit drying dishes.....





the load i just removed was still wet. I just loaded the machine again but will call for more warranty service if they arent dry.....



frankly I think whirpool dishwashers are junk, I am going to stop at lowes tomorrow and talk with the store manager about having them replace the unit..



everyone is making everything so on the cheap its sad......



YOU ARE SO RIGHT!



The dishwasher before this one was a KitchenAid. A tank! Ran for 13 years with never a sneeze. Then hot water wouldn't go in. I FOOLISHLY thought it would be too expensive to pay for repairs ??? so for the next 4 years I handwashed.



Then circumstances dictated that I get a new DW, so I had the old one taken out. Guess why hot water wasn't going in? A ****ing MOUSE had chewed holes in the ****ing hot water hose!!!! Easily replaced for small bux!!!



I am still banging my head against the wall for sacrificing that great old KitchenAid for this plastic POS. KA would have run forever; was well made!!!

With 20-20 hindsight....!!!



HB



Funny thing. We've always had KAs in our previous house. But, each one

kept lasting fewer and fewer years. The 1st one lasted 23 years. The

last one, actually the 3rd, less than 5 years. It would have cost more

to fix it myself, than to replace it. KA actually gave me a $100

voucher to buy another KA. I did that and actually had to fix it a few

times before we moved. Now it's someone else's problem. In my new

house, now almost 5 years old, I have a WP, not top of the line. It is

the best dishwasher we've ever had, as far as cleaning. The only major

complaint is the silverware basket on the door. Because the new DWs

have a larger capacity, the door hinge is mounted much lower to the

floor, thus you almost have to sit on the floor to remove silverware.

If I had realized this, I would have had the cabinet maker mount it

higher, although you do loose some counter top space. I recommended

this to my niece, as she was building after me, and now likes the raised

DW. I realize that the basket is removable, with some difficulty, but

in either case, it's not ideal. So, I tie wrapped the basket to the

lower rack, and that seemed to fix some of the basket problems. I also

have an old KA basket which I use on the top rack for smaller stuff.

BTW, with the wonderful WP designed basket, you cannot put long items in

the left side of the basket because they will prevent the soap door from

opening! Nice going WP. As for drying, everything pretty much dries

with the exception of plastic. I wonder if rinse agent will help that?

Art, that's what I was asking at the outset! To repeat: WP manual says:

1. Little packets of detergent work best.

2. Use rinse agent.

BUT

3. Costco little packets say they *contain* rinse agent.

Who's on first?

Guess I'll just have to buy (expensive) bottles of rinse agent to see if it helps.
But ISTR that wet cutlery problem dates from installation of new DW when I WAS
using rinse agent. OK, launching experiment.

BTW, any chemistry folks around who know just whatthehell is in "rinse agent"???

HB

HB,
As for drying, my WP pretty much dries everything, with the exception of
the plastic, including the inside of the door, which is plastic. Of
course, anything with a dimple on the bottom, now on the top, will hold
water ... but I don't think anything can solve that except for buying
flat bottom cups and glasses. When we used to make our kids unload the
dw (we're empty nesters now), they used to complain about the bottoms
holding water. In some cases, they actually drilled drain holes in some
of the plastic stuff, where it wouldn't compromise the container. I
remember my daughter drilled small holes in the food processor bowl that
would drain through the side. When the cycle finishes, we usually open
the door and pull out the plastic stuff and leave the door open to
evaporate water on the inside of the door and anything that got splashed
when removing the plastic. We too, use the all in one detergent + rinse
agent (a commercial brand). We're definitely going to try the liquid to
see what happens with the plastic.

On 5/27/2014 11:16 AM, Josh wrote:

This dishwasher takes ~90 minutes, and is reasonably quiet (can tell
that it's running in the same room, but not in the next). I wouldn't
trade it for those rumored 2-4 hour cycles some of the new ones take.

Looks like you won't have a choice next time around. I'm not sure why
it would have to take so long to save energy.

99% of the time it does not matter. We usually start it after dinner or
before going to bed so it has many hours to do the job.

on Mon, 26 May 2014 17:54:39 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

my non working heat dry also prevents the water from heating to clean during the wash cycle. the heater and thermistor have both been replaced once

I think Ed is correct. Quality has gone pretty much right down the
toilet.

We we redid our kitchen last summer we purchased a Kitchen Aide and
again, like Ed mentioned, it works great. Lots better than the
Kenmore Elite that it replaced. But I had to pay 3+ times what the
others cost. But it was most likely the last kitchen upgrade I'll
ever do.

Good luck.

On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 6:07:00 AM UTC-7, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 5:42:17 AM UTC-7, Art Todesco wrote:

On 5/26/2014 8:24 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:



On Monday, May 26, 2014 5:00:04 PM UTC-7, bob haller wrote:

On Monday, May 26, 2014 2:59:08 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:

It has NEVER dried dishes properly; particularly cutlery in door basket is always wet.


Thanks to all for opening door/evaporation option. Will try it & report.

[mucho snippage]

As for drying, everything pretty much dries with the exception of plastic. I wonder if rinse agent will help that?

Art, that's what I was asking at the outset! To repeat: WP manual says:

1. Little packets of detergent work best.

2. Use rinse agent.

BUT

3. Costco little packets say they *contain* rinse agent.

Who's on first?

Guess I'll just have to buy (expensive) bottles of rinse agent to see if it helps.

******BTW, any chemistry folks around who know just whatthehell is in "rinse agent"???******

TIA

HB

Higgs Boson posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


It has NEVER dried dishes properly;


I suppose you never complained when new. I would replace her with a newer
one and life will be better.

--
Tekkie

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/27/2014 11:16 AM, Josh wrote:

This dishwasher takes ~90 minutes, and is reasonably quiet (can tell
that it's running in the same room, but not in the next). I wouldn't
trade it for those rumored 2-4 hour cycles some of the new ones take.

Looks like you won't have a choice next time around. I'm not sure why
it would have to take so long to save energy.

99% of the time it does not matter. We usually start it after dinner or
before going to bed so it has many hours to do the job.

Hi,
New DW we got is like at 47db sound level when running. Only thing it is
running is indicated by light marked "active" The amount of water it
uses is so little it's hard to believe it does the job. Is that
Frigidaire DW energy star qualified one?

BobMCT wrote:

on Mon, 26 May 2014 17:54:39 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

my non working heat dry also prevents the water from heating to clean during the wash cycle. the heater and thermistor have both been replaced once

I think Ed is correct. Quality has gone pretty much right down the
toilet.

We we redid our kitchen last summer we purchased a Kitchen Aide and
again, like Ed mentioned, it works great. Lots better than the
Kenmore Elite that it replaced. But I had to pay 3+ times what the
others cost. But it was most likely the last kitchen upgrade I'll
ever do.

Good luck.

Hmmm,
Really speaking of build quality of any thing, wife dropped her laptop
ending up with broken hinge on one side, B4 it quits altogether I went
out to try new laptops. Every one of them felt so flimsy I ended up
buying 4 year NOS Toshiba which is built like tank. Any one watched
Panasonic Tough Book and Motorola's equivalent one going through all
kinds of abuse? First driving a car over them, pouring water, sand, heat
them up under direct sun light. Lastly they blew them up with TNT
sticks. Still they remained in one piece but dead. Motorola one fared
better there. My field work laptop is Durabook semi-rugged mil-spec.
one. I can drop it or bang them around without any problems.

On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 6:07:00 AM UTC-7, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 5:42:17 AM UTC-7, Art Todesco wrote:

On 5/26/2014 8:24 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:



On Monday, May 26, 2014 5:00:04 PM UTC-7, bob haller wrote:



On Monday, May 26, 2014 2:59:08 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:







It has NEVER dried dishes properly; particularly cutlery in door basket is always wet.







[...]







my whirpool dishwasher is less than a year old, so far the main control panel faied and was replaced, then it quit drying dishes.....











the load i just removed was still wet. I just loaded the machine again but will call for more warranty service if they arent dry.....







frankly I think whirpool dishwashers are junk, I am going to stop at lowes tomorrow and talk with the store manager about having them replace the unit..







everyone is making everything so on the cheap its sad......







YOU ARE SO RIGHT!







The dishwasher before this one was a KitchenAid. A tank! Ran for 13 years with never a sneeze. Then hot water wouldn't go in. I FOOLISHLY thought it would be too expensive to pay for repairs ??? so for the next 4 years I handwashed.







Then circumstances dictated that I get a new DW, so I had the old one taken out. Guess why hot water wasn't going in? A ****ing MOUSE had chewed holes in the ****ing hot water hose!!!! Easily replaced for small bux!!!







I am still banging my head against the wall for sacrificing that great old KitchenAid for this plastic POS. KA would have run forever; was well made!!!



With 20-20 hindsight....!!!

[...]


.. As for drying, everything pretty much dries

with the exception of plastic. I wonder if rinse agent will help that?

Art, that's what I was asking at the outset! To repeat: WP manual says:


1. Little packets of detergent work best.



2. Use rinse agent.



BUT



3. Costco little packets say they *contain* rinse agent.



Who's on first?



Guess I'll just have to buy (expensive) bottles of rinse agent to see if it helps.

But ISTR that wet cutlery problem dates from installation of new DW when I WAS

using rinse agent. OK, launching experiment.

Update: Ran a load WITH rinSe agent added to Costco packets. Dried much better; even cutlery. So Costco saying their product contains rinse agent...??

BTW, any chemistry folks around who know just whatthehell is in "rinse agent"???

Update: I went to several DIY sites which recommended plain white vinegar instead of rin$se agent. Might that be a clue to what's in the commercial product? Anybody ever try it? B

HB

Higgs Boson wrote:
On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 6:07:00 AM UTC-7, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 5:42:17 AM UTC-7, Art Todesco wrote:

On 5/26/2014 8:24 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:



On Monday, May 26, 2014 5:00:04 PM UTC-7, bob haller wrote:



On Monday, May 26, 2014 2:59:08 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:







It has NEVER dried dishes properly; particularly cutlery in door basket is always wet.







[...]







my whirpool dishwasher is less than a year old, so far the main control panel faied and was replaced, then it quit drying dishes.....











the load i just removed was still wet. I just loaded the machine again but will call for more warranty service if they arent dry.....







frankly I think whirpool dishwashers are junk, I am going to stop at lowes tomorrow and talk with the store manager about having them replace the unit..







everyone is making everything so on the cheap its sad......







YOU ARE SO RIGHT!







The dishwasher before this one was a KitchenAid. A tank! Ran for 13 years with never a sneeze. Then hot water wouldn't go in. I FOOLISHLY thought it would be too expensive to pay for repairs ??? so for the next 4 years I handwashed.







Then circumstances dictated that I get a new DW, so I had the old one taken out. Guess why hot water wasn't going in? A ****ing MOUSE had chewed holes in the ****ing hot water hose!!!! Easily replaced for small bux!!!







I am still banging my head against the wall for sacrificing that great old KitchenAid for this plastic POS. KA would have run forever; was well made!!!



With 20-20 hindsight....!!!

[...]


. As for drying, everything pretty much dries

with the exception of plastic. I wonder if rinse agent will help that?

Art, that's what I was asking at the outset! To repeat: WP manual says:


1. Little packets of detergent work best.



2. Use rinse agent.



BUT



3. Costco little packets say they *contain* rinse agent.



Who's on first?



Guess I'll just have to buy (expensive) bottles of rinse agent to see if it helps.

But ISTR that wet cutlery problem dates from installation of new DW when I WAS

using rinse agent. OK, launching experiment.

Update: Ran a load WITH rinSe agent added to Costco packets. Dried much better; even cutlery. So Costco saying their product contains rinse agent...??

BTW, any chemistry folks around who know just whatthehell is in "rinse agent"???

Update: I went to several DIY sites which recommended plain white vinegar instead of rin$se agent. Might that be a clue to what's in the commercial product? Anybody ever try it? B

HB

Hmm,
When I bought Bosch DW not long ago, shop gave me sample pack of Bosch
brand detergent cubes. I was told they are made from apple cider
vinegar. I still have some left. I couldn't smell any vinegar from it.
Usually we use Finish Platinum pillows. And Finish rinse agent. Machine
turns little red light on when rinse agent tank is empty. It means using
rinse agent is important? Old Whirl Pool worked fine without it.
After I load the machine I just throw in the detergent, not into
detergent holder. Once repair tech told me to try that for better
washing. I think he was right.

After I load the machine I just throw in the detergent, not into

detergent holder. Once repair tech told me to try that for better

washing. I think he was right.

I fill the dispenser then add some on the silverware. Machine cleans much beter this way

On 5/29/2014 4:53 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Update: Ran a load WITH rinSe agent added to Costco packets. Dried much better; even cutlery. So Costco saying their product contains rinse agent...??

BTW, any chemistry folks around who know just whatthehell is in "rinse agent"???

Update: I went to several DIY sites which recommended plain white vinegar instead of rin$se agent. Might that be a clue to what's in the commercial product? Anybody ever try it? B

HB


Rinse agents contain surfactants, much more complex than vinegar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfactant
If you have soft water, vinegar may be adequate, but for most of us, we
need better for top quality results.

I use the commercial stuff and get outstanding results.

On Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:12:36 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:


After I load the machine I just throw in the detergent, not into



detergent holder. Once repair tech told me to try that for better



washing. I think he was right.



I fill the dispenser then add some on the silverware. Machine cleans much beter this way

That makes sense, most dishwashers have a little cup for adding
some extra for the pre-wash cycle. But if you don't add any to the
main dispenser, as was suggested by another poster, then you don't
have detergent for the main wash cycle. Mine have always filled, run
a quick cycle to get the loose stuff, then they pump out and refill.
With no detergent to be released after that, you have no detergent
for the main wash.

On Thursday, May 29, 2014 4:55:39 PM UTC-7, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/29/2014 4:53 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:



Update: Ran a load WITH rinSe agent added to Costco packets. Dried much better; even cutlery. So Costco saying their product contains rinse agent...??



BTW, any chemistry folks around who know just whatthehell is in "rinse agent"???



Update: I went to several DIY sites which recommended plain white vinegar instead of rin$se agent. Might that be a clue to what's in the commercial product? Anybody ever try it? B



HB





Rinse agents contain surfactants, much more complex than vinegar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfactant

If you have soft water, vinegar may be adequate, but for most of us, we

need better for top quality results.



I use the commercial stuff and get outstanding results.

Ed, I read the wikipedia article (most too technical for lay people) but did not spot any reference to the rin$e agents we are talking about; only discussed DETERGENTS as surfactants.

???

UH

On 5/26/2014 2:59 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
My DW, approx 2 years old, is a Whirlpool. Not high end. Invoice read: WH-WDFS1DPAYW, whatever the hell THAT means. (Bottom of invoice said don't rely on number!) If it helps, DW with tax & installation, was $608.

It has NEVER dried dishes properly; particularly cutlery in door basket is always wet.

When DW was installed, I studied the manual and set my preferences as follows:

NORMAL HIGH TEMP SANI-RINSE HEAT DRY.

I just re-consulted manual. It advises using rinse aid to get dishes dry. (I did that at first when using package of powdered detergent.)

But manual also advises using the little "pillows" or packets of detergent.
I switched to packets from Costco long ago; box says packets *contain rinse aid.*

Whatthehell??!!

All I want is dry damn dishes & cutlery.

Any advice?

TIA

HB

Reporting back, with use of rinse agent with our almost 5yo Whirlpool
dw. As I previously said, this wp cleans better than any of the KA that
we had in the past 40 years. We are using the all-in-one Finish Power
Ball (sounds like a lottery game). Without rinse agent everything dried
well, except for the depressions on the bottoms of glasses, etc.
Plastic was always wet. After the 1st load using the rinse agent, my
wife said this is much, much better. The only places where water
remained was in the cover groves and in the back side of the plastic
rolled over edges. BTW, after the cycle, I opened the dw to let it
completely cool. So, yes, it is a great improvement. Will it give you
cancer in 50 years .... I don't know.

On 5/30/2014 1:22 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 4:55:39 PM UTC-7, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/29/2014 4:53 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:



Update: Ran a load WITH rinSe agent added to Costco packets. Dried much better; even cutlery. So Costco saying their product contains rinse agent...??



BTW, any chemistry folks around who know just whatthehell is in "rinse agent"???



Update: I went to several DIY sites which recommended plain white vinegar instead of rin$se agent. Might that be a clue to what's in the commercial product? Anybody ever try it? B



HB





Rinse agents contain surfactants, much more complex than vinegar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfactant

If you have soft water, vinegar may be adequate, but for most of us, we

need better for top quality results.



I use the commercial stuff and get outstanding results.

Ed, I read the wikipedia article (most too technical for lay people) but did not spot any reference to the rin$e agents we are talking about; only discussed DETERGENTS as surfactants.

???

UH


The rinse agents are made up of surfactants.

From the jetdry website (http://www.jetdry.com/faqs.shtml): JET-DRY®
products are a special combination of nonionic surfactants, a chelating
agent, dye, and fragrance* (*for our fragranced products). On a more
detailed note, they are kosher and don't contain phosphate.


Watch out with home made brews
http://wholenewmom.com/whole-new-bud...ortant-update/
See, the rinse aid compartment was still full of green-colored vinegar
even thought I hadn’t refilled the compartment for maybe 4 months or so.
Well, the repairman told me something that I had no idea about.
The acid in the vinegar can damage the rubber components in the rinse
aid compartment.

Art Todesco posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

Finish Power Ball (sounds like a


real set of gonads! Charlie Harper would be proud!

--
Tekkie

On Thu, 29 May 2014 13:53:54 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 6:07:00 AM UTC-7, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 5:42:17 AM UTC-7, Art Todesco wrote:

On 5/26/2014 8:24 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:



On Monday, May 26, 2014 5:00:04 PM UTC-7, bob haller wrote:



On Monday, May 26, 2014 2:59:08 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:







It has NEVER dried dishes properly; particularly cutlery in door basket is always wet.







[...]







my whirpool dishwasher is less than a year old, so far the main control panel faied and was replaced, then it quit drying dishes.....











the load i just removed was still wet. I just loaded the machine again but will call for more warranty service if they arent dry.....







frankly I think whirpool dishwashers are junk, I am going to stop at lowes tomorrow and talk with the store manager about having them replace the unit..







everyone is making everything so on the cheap its sad......







YOU ARE SO RIGHT!







The dishwasher before this one was a KitchenAid. A tank! Ran for 13 years with never a sneeze. Then hot water wouldn't go in. I FOOLISHLY thought it would be too expensive to pay for repairs ??? so for the next 4 years I handwashed.







Then circumstances dictated that I get a new DW, so I had the old one taken out. Guess why hot water wasn't going in? A ****ing MOUSE had chewed holes in the ****ing hot water hose!!!! Easily replaced for small bux!!!







I am still banging my head against the wall for sacrificing that great old KitchenAid for this plastic POS. KA would have run forever; was well made!!!



With 20-20 hindsight....!!!

[...]


. As for drying, everything pretty much dries

with the exception of plastic. I wonder if rinse agent will help that?

Art, that's what I was asking at the outset! To repeat: WP manual says:


1. Little packets of detergent work best.



2. Use rinse agent.



BUT



3. Costco little packets say they *contain* rinse agent.



Who's on first?



Guess I'll just have to buy (expensive) bottles of rinse agent to see if it helps.

But ISTR that wet cutlery problem dates from installation of new DW when I WAS

using rinse agent. OK, launching experiment.

Update: Ran a load WITH rinSe agent added to Costco packets. Dried much better; even cutlery. So Costco saying their product contains rinse agent...??

BTW, any chemistry folks around who know just whatthehell is in "rinse agent"???

Update: I went to several DIY sites which recommended plain white vinegar instead of rin$se agent. Might that be a clue to what's in the commercial product? Anybody ever try it? B

HB


Rinse aid is just a chemical that lowers the surface tension of the
water so that instead of forming drops of water that stay on the
dishes and silverware it "sheets" off. Think of it like the
difference between a waxed car where the water just runs off versus an
unwaxed car where the water just beads up and sits there. The problem
with rinse aid in the costco detergent is that even though it may have
it in it, it still pretty much all gets rinsed off in the rinse cycle.
The rinse aid that you put in the rinse aid dispenser gets dispensed
in each of the cycles including the rinse cycle so it's bound to work
better then in the detergent.

As far are brands, I've had a lot of different brands over the years
and have been happiest with the Whirlpools. Had a Maytag that was
terrible, had a couple frididares that were so so, had a GE that
cleaned well but left black spots on everything from the inside of the
hoses deteriorating, now I always buy Kenmore, which are usually, but
not always, made by Whirlpool. My current Kenmore is around 14 years
old and cleans very well. Racks are starting to rust though. My
sister likes high end crap and she's got Bosch or some overpriced
brand that's all metal. Doesn't clean well and doesn't dry well and
the rack are poorly designed and difficult to load. And it beeps
forever when the cycle is done until you open the door. Big pain in
the ass if you start a load and go to bed. All night long you hear it
beeping if you are sleeping in her guest room. I much prefer my
Kenmore.

On Friday, May 30, 2014 6:05:41 PM UTC-7, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2014 13:53:54 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson

wrote:



On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 6:07:00 AM UTC-7, Higgs Boson wrote:

On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 5:42:17 AM UTC-7, Art Todesco wrote:



On 5/26/2014 8:24 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:







On Monday, May 26, 2014 5:00:04 PM UTC-7, bob haller wrote:

On Monday, May 26, 2014 2:59:08 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:

[big snip...]



Guess I'll just have to buy (expensive) bottles of rinse agent to see if it helps.
[...]

BTW, any chemistry folks around who know just whatthehell is in "rinse agent"???

Update: I went to several DIY sites which recommended plain white vinegar instead of rin$se agent. Might that be a clue to what's in the commercial product? Anybody ever try it? B



HB


Rinse aid is just a chemical that lowers the surface tension of the

water so that instead of forming drops of water that stay on the

dishes and silverware it "sheets" off. Think of it like the

difference between a waxed car where the water just runs off versus an

unwaxed car where the water just beads up and sits there. The problem

with rinse aid in the costco detergent is that even though it may have

it in it, it still pretty much all gets rinsed off in the rinse cycle.

The rinse aid that you put in the rinse aid dispenser gets dispensed

in each of the cycles including the rinse cycle so it's bound to work

better then in the detergent.

Tx - makes sense.

Now I have to look for a source to get large bottles of rin$e agent - the small bottles are very expensive.

Costco said they don't carry rin$e agent. Anybody know of a store that sells big bottles?

On-line I found 32 oz. Jet Dry for $19.00 and $15.00 free shipping. Is that an OK brand?

TIA

HB

On 5/30/2014 11:12 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:


Now I have to look for a source to get large bottles of rin$e agent - the small bottles are very expensive.

Costco said they don't carry rin$e agent. Anybody know of a store that sells big bottles?

On-line I found 32 oz. Jet Dry for $19.00 and $15.00 free shipping. Is that an OK brand?

TIA

HB



Jet Dry and Cascade are good brands. Been using both for many years.
32 oz. will last a very long time.

I buy it at BJs so I'm surprised Costco would not have it.

On Friday, May 30, 2014 9:43:14 PM UTC-7, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/30/2014 11:12 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:


Now I have to look for a source to get large bottles of rin$e agent - the small bottles are very expensive.



Costco said they don't carry rin$e agent. Anybody know of a store that sells big bottles?



On-line I found 32 oz. Jet Dry for $19.00 and $15.00 free shipping. Is that an OK brand?



TIA



HB







Jet Dry and Cascade are good brands. Been using both for many years.

32 oz. will last a very long time.



I buy it at BJs so I'm surprised Costco would not have it.

Maybe the employee didn't understand me over the phone. Costco used to carry it. Next time I'm there I'll check. I did see that Target has it -- not far from me.

HB