I have a situation at our cabin. The last of the approach to the cabin is
about 1/4 mile. It goes up and down hills. One is a little steep. It is
also shaded. It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. It
looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade.

I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so
that we can get all the way to the cabin. Right now, there is a chance of a
vehicle high centering on it. Will the salt particles melt through that
much snow, and clear that?

I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am unfamiliar
with this. Help appreciated. We also have one of the weed burners that
sounds like a F15 that we could take up there and just melt it, but was
thinking about the snow idea. I think both would cost about the same, and
be the same effort.

Steve

On Apr 1, 5:00*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
I have a situation at our cabin. *The last of the approach to the cabin is
about 1/4 mile. *It goes up and down hills. *One is a little steep. *It is
also shaded. *It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. *It
looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade.

I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so
that we can get all the way to the cabin. *Right now, there is a chance of a
vehicle high centering on it. *Will the salt particles melt through that
much snow, and clear that?

I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am unfamiliar
with this. *Help appreciated. *We also have one of the weed burners that
sounds like a F15 that we could take up there and just melt it, but was
thinking about the snow idea. *I think both would cost about the same, and
be the same effort.

Steve

We use it here in the UK all the time.
It is only effective on thin snow/ice and depends on wheeled traffic
to pulverise and melt the snow.
If you apply it on thick ice you will likely get large "potholes"
formed.

You should keep the road ploughed on a regular basis and not let it
get packed down and regularly apply salt.

It will not melt the ice at temperatures below 15degF.
Trying to melt the snow with heat will never work due to the latent
heat needed to melt ice.

Oh and BTW salt only works on sealed surface,s eg tarmac or concrete.
On unsealed tracks, the salty water just drains away though the
aggregate and is lost.

"Steve B" wrote in :

I have a situation at our cabin. The last of the approach to the cabin is
about 1/4 mile. It goes up and down hills. One is a little steep. It is
also shaded. It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. It
looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade.

I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so
that we can get all the way to the cabin. Right now, there is a chance of a
vehicle high centering on it. Will the salt particles melt through that
much snow, and clear that?

Nope. Not unless you use a truckload of salt.

I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am unfamiliar
with this.

The proper tool for snow removal is a shovel for small amounts, a plow for large amounts. If
the snow is more than a few inches deep, salt is ineffective.

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 12:29:27 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 11:17:52 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

The proper tool for snow removal is a shovel for small amounts, a plow for large amounts. If
the snow is more than a few inches deep, salt is ineffective.

He could sprinkle some amount out in one small area
and see what happens....

I would try it. Solar salt crystals (water softener - not the
pellets) cost less than $5.00 for a 40# bag at HD.


And a 40pound bag will make a pretty decent hole in about 10 square
feet of packed snow a foot deep.

It sounds like a job for a bucket-loader at this point.

Jim

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:53:49 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 12:29:27 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 11:17:52 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

The proper tool for snow removal is a shovel for small amounts, a plow for large amounts. If
the snow is more than a few inches deep, salt is ineffective.

He could sprinkle some amount out in one small area
and see what happens....

I would try it. Solar salt crystals (water softener - not the
pellets) cost less than $5.00 for a 40# bag at HD.


And a 40pound bag will make a pretty decent hole in about 10 square
feet of packed snow a foot deep.

It sounds like a job for a bucket-loader at this point.

Jim

Steve's cabin is in southern Utah. I'd give the snow a few days to
melt and not worry about salt, plows, shovels, torches, etc.

Southern Nevada is frequently in the 80F temps for a few weeks now. We
have already hit a few times in the low 90's.

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:53:49 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 12:29:27 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 11:17:52 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

The proper tool for snow removal is a shovel for small amounts, a plow for large amounts. If
the snow is more than a few inches deep, salt is ineffective.

He could sprinkle some amount out in one small area
and see what happens....

I would try it. Solar salt crystals (water softener - not the
pellets) cost less than $5.00 for a 40# bag at HD.


And a 40pound bag will make a pretty decent hole in about 10 square
feet of packed snow a foot deep.

About 1' x 2' if it's dropped on its side. ;-)

Really, "solar salt" does a really crappy job of melting snow. Tried
it.

It sounds like a job for a bucket-loader at this point.

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:20:33 -0400, wrote:

Really, "solar salt" does a really crappy job of melting snow. Tried
it.

Good to know. Now I know why I don't live in a heavy snow area
anymore...

Out here in the West, I'm not sure one can buy rock salt like used up
Nawth. At least in any large quantity.

On 4/1/2013 12:00 PM, Steve B wrote:
I have a situation at our cabin. The last of the approach to the cabin is
about 1/4 mile. It goes up and down hills. One is a little steep. It is
also shaded. It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. It
looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade.

I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so
that we can get all the way to the cabin. Right now, there is a chance of a
vehicle high centering on it. Will the salt particles melt through that
much snow, and clear that?

I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am unfamiliar
with this. Help appreciated. We also have one of the weed burners that
sounds like a F15 that we could take up there and just melt it, but was
thinking about the snow idea. I think both would cost about the same, and
be the same effort.

Steve



Salt does not melt through snow. It dissolves and lowers the freezing
point of water which is the melting. Eventually it becomes too dilute
to have much effect. Point is you may need a lot of salt to get the job
done.

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 15:12:13 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:20:33 -0400, wrote:

Really, "solar salt" does a really crappy job of melting snow. Tried
it.

Good to know. Now I know why I don't live in a heavy snow area
anymore...

I've known for some time. If I ever wonder, I go into the garage and
take a quick look at my snow shovel. ;-)

Out here in the West, I'm not sure one can buy rock salt like used up
Nawth. At least in any large quantity.

I've seen it here in the Sowth but I can't remember where or why. It
does get icy every few years but everyone just sleeps in.

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 19:08:32 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 15:12:13 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:20:33 -0400, wrote:

Really, "solar salt" does a really crappy job of melting snow. Tried
it.

Good to know. Now I know why I don't live in a heavy snow area
anymore...

I've known for some time. If I ever wonder, I go into the garage and
take a quick look at my snow shovel. ;-)


Traveling Sowff, throw the shovel out when you stop seeing snow. I
was told that about my former snow plow - drop it an disconnect it.

Out here in the West, I'm not sure one can buy rock salt like used up
Nawth. At least in any large quantity.

I've seen it here in the Sowth but I can't remember where or why. It
does get icy every few years but everyone just sleeps in.

Must be a hardware store. Rock salt is used for making ice cream in
the Sowff. It's not a miff, er, myth.

On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 09:00:14 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:

I have a situation at our cabin. The last of the approach to the cabin is
about 1/4 mile. It goes up and down hills. One is a little steep. It is
also shaded. It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. It
looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade.

I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so
that we can get all the way to the cabin. Right now, there is a chance of a
vehicle high centering on it. Will the salt particles melt through that
much snow, and clear that?

I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am unfamiliar
with this. Help appreciated. We also have one of the weed burners that
sounds like a F15 that we could take up there and just melt it, but was
thinking about the snow idea. I think both would cost about the same, and
be the same effort.

Steve


Dump on several cases of salt. Then buy a case of type AA or type D
batteries and dump them there too. You'll then have a CASE OF SALT AND
BATTERY!

"Frank" wrote

Salt does not melt through snow. It dissolves and lowers the freezing
point of water which is the melting. Eventually it becomes too dilute to
have much effect. Point is you may need a lot of salt to get the job
done.

Thanks. That was one of my questions, how deep would the salt melt the snow
before it diluted out and quit working. I'm going up this week with four
bags and my flame thrower, and put a dent in it.

Steve

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote

It sounds like a job for a bucket-loader at this point.

Jim

Got one, but think that it might get too muddy after I did clean it out, and
be hard to get back up the hill. Plus, loading up a heavy loader, and
hauling it up in the mountains is another thing.

Steve

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:31:19 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 19:08:32 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 15:12:13 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:20:33 -0400, wrote:

Really, "solar salt" does a really crappy job of melting snow. Tried
it.

Good to know. Now I know why I don't live in a heavy snow area
anymore...

I've known for some time. If I ever wonder, I go into the garage and
take a quick look at my snow shovel. ;-)


Traveling Sowff, throw the shovel out when you stop seeing snow. I
was told that about my former snow plow - drop it an disconnect it.

Nah, it makes a great long-handled dust pan. After I use it I go
inside and call the kid and razz him about having to shovel snow.

Out here in the West, I'm not sure one can buy rock salt like used up
Nawth. At least in any large quantity.

I've seen it here in the Sowth but I can't remember where or why. It
does get icy every few years but everyone just sleeps in.

Must be a hardware store. Rock salt is used for making ice cream in
the Sowff. It's not a miff, er, myth.

No, this was the ice-melt variety. Again, I can't remember where I
saw it but I did get a chuckle.

On Apr 1, 11:00*am, "Steve B" wrote:
I have a situation at our cabin. *The last of the approach to the cabin is
about 1/4 mile. *It goes up and down hills. *One is a little steep. *It is
also shaded. *It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. *It
looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade.

I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so
that we can get all the way to the cabin. *Right now, there is a chance of a
vehicle high centering on it. *Will the salt particles melt through that
much snow, and clear that?

I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am unfamiliar
with this. *Help appreciated. *We also have one of the weed burners that
sounds like a F15 that we could take up there and just melt it, but was
thinking about the snow idea. *I think both would cost about the same, and
be the same effort.

Steve

how about one of these?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011...-logs-on-fire/

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 23:12:49 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:31:19 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 19:08:32 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 15:12:13 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:20:33 -0400, wrote:

Really, "solar salt" does a really crappy job of melting snow. Tried
it.

Good to know. Now I know why I don't live in a heavy snow area
anymore...

I've known for some time. If I ever wonder, I go into the garage and
take a quick look at my snow shovel. ;-)


Traveling Sowff, throw the shovel out when you stop seeing snow. I
was told that about my former snow plow - drop it an disconnect it.

Nah, it makes a great long-handled dust pan. After I use it I go
inside and call the kid and razz him about having to shovel snow.


Good idea for a dust pan. Didn't think of that one. Oh, don't let the
kid forget. Keep him reminded every year :-\

Out here in the West, I'm not sure one can buy rock salt like used up
Nawth. At least in any large quantity.

I've seen it here in the Sowth but I can't remember where or why. It
does get icy every few years but everyone just sleeps in.

Must be a hardware store. Rock salt is used for making ice cream in
the Sowff. It's not a miff, er, myth.

No, this was the ice-melt variety. Again, I can't remember where I
saw it but I did get a chuckle.

When you move South one tends forget about such things.

I went North for work - took me some years to get home, south of the
Mason-Dixon, away from the cold and snow. I came West and landed in
the desert.

Lived just west of Lake Placid, NY (Saranac Lake). Then central PA
(Milton) south of Williamsport.

I'll never go back. I've been in shorts and flops for years now.

Steve:

Is this a foot path that you're wanting to clear the snow off of or a road?
Initially, I thought you were talking about a foot path, but then you expressed concern that a vehicle could high center on it.

Forget the weed burner idea; you'll just turn that road or path into a skating rink cuz the water won't get warm enough to drain completely away. You'll make water that's just a little warmer than freezing that drains away a little and then refreeze again. You'll end up with 3 or 4 inches of solid ice on your path/road instead of 12 to 18 inches of hard packed snow. Then you'll have a harder time getting up that hill than you do now.

On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 05:23:01 +0000, nestork
wrote:


'Steve B[_13_ Wrote:
;3039542']I have a situation at our cabin. The last of the approach to
the cabin is
about 1/4 mile. It goes up and down hills. One is a little steep. It
is
also shaded. It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick.
It
looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade.

I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go
away so
that we can get all the way to the cabin. Right now, there is a chance
of a
vehicle high centering on it. Will the salt particles melt through that

much snow, and clear that?

I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am
unfamiliar
with this. Help appreciated. We also have one of the weed burners that

sounds like a F15 that we could take up there and just melt it, but was

thinking about the snow idea. I think both would cost about the same,
and
be the same effort.

Steve

Steve:

Is this a foot path that you're wanting to clear the snow off of or a
road?
Initially, I thought you were talking about a foot path, but then you
expressed concern that a vehicle could high center on it.

Forget the weed burner idea; you'll just turn that road or path into a
skating rink cuz the water won't get warm enough to drain completely
away. You'll make water that's just a little warmer than freezing that
drains away a little and then refreeze again. You'll end up with 3 or 4
inches of solid ice on your path/road instead of 12 to 18 inches of hard
packed snow. Then you'll have a harder time getting up that hill than
you do now.

I think the OP should just hire someone with a snowplow and be dont with
it. I live on a farm, I use salt on spots that are in places where I
might fall, like the sidewalk to the house, in front of the hayshed,
etc. But doing a large area is gonna require a lot of salt, and that
salt can and will damage the grass in the summer. It just seems like a
big waste of money and time, considering the snow will all melt in a
week or two anyhow, but a snowplow would do the job if it must be done
now, and likely with less hassle and about the same price if the right
guy is found. In other words, a guy who is fairly priced. The few
times I've had to hire someone, I get the job done for $75 to $100 (long
driveway). Yet, some guy quoted me $500 for the same driveway. I made
sure to tell others that he's a crook and to not hire him, while the
guys who charge a fair price have gotten lots of referrals from me.

That makes sense -- the melt will go from the high center, to the low wheel
tracks, and refreeze. With the road being on a hill, the water may run down
a few feet before refreezing.

The salt idea may have the same problem. As the snow melts, it's got to go
some where. Of course, it will be dissolved with salt in it, so the salt
idea will move the water farther away.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"nestork" wrote in message
...


Forget the weed burner idea; you'll just turn that road or path into a
skating rink cuz the water won't get warm enough to drain completely
away. You'll make water that's just a little warmer than freezing that
drains away a little and then refreeze again. You'll end up with 3 or 4
inches of solid ice on your path/road instead of 12 to 18 inches of hard
packed snow. Then you'll have a harder time getting up that hill than
you do now.

--
nestork

On Monday, April 1, 2013 12:00:14 PM UTC-4, Steve B wrote:
I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so
that we can get all the way to the cabin. Right now, there is a chance of a
vehicle high centering on it. Will the salt particles melt through that
much snow, and clear that?

It will take a f*ck-ton of salt, and cost a fortune, for a one-time thing. A "sprinkle" of salt will melt a thin layer of ice, not 18" of packed snow.

Same with the heat. Your piddly little weed burner won't make a dent. It will take days and days, and several tanks of propane. By then nature will probably do most of the work.

Fastest and cheapest way to get rid of it is to break it up with picks and axes, and shovel it out of the way.

Everyone throughout the USA can buy rock salt locally, but not the kind typically used for melting snow.

Rock salt is used in water softeners, so, anyone living in a rural area that gets their water from a well and isn't supplied with soft water from a nearby city or town will either have to live with hard water or have their own small water softener in their house for their own use.

But the size of the of salt will be different for use in a water softener and for melting ice on sidewalks and stairs. The salt used in water softeners will typically be "1 inch clean", which means salt that'll pass through a sifting screen with 1 1/4 inch gaps between the wires, but not through a sifting screen with 1 inch gaps between the wires. You need large gaps between the salt stones to allow water to flow easily through the salt bed and to have a large area of contact between the salt and the hard water.

The kind of salt we buy up here to melt ice will typically be "quarter inch down", which means everything that will pass through a sifting screen with 1/4 inch wide gaps between the wires. So, what you get in a bag of ice melting salt will be smaller than 1/4 inch in any dimension, and much of it will be the size of sand or even as fine as dust.

The primary difference between the two kinds of salt is that the stuff used in water softeners has got to be food grade salt, whereas the stuff you scatter on your steps doesn't have to be food grade, and while much of it will be white, you'll find all kinds of other garbage in it. Water softener salt will be white as Manitoba snow cuz it's pure NaCl, just like table salt.

On Apr 1, 12:00*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
I have a situation at our cabin. *The last of the approach to the cabin is
about 1/4 mile. *It goes up and down hills. *One is a little steep. *It is
also shaded. *It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. *It
looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade.


This summer remove the shade, to make ice melting easier next
year....... think tree trimming

for now if you must have access get a guy with a plow.... and perhaps
salt.......

Steve B wrote:
I have a situation at our cabin. The last of the approach to the
cabin is about 1/4 mile. It goes up and down hills. One is a little
steep. It is also shaded. It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12
to 18 " thick. It looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt
in the shade.
I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go
away so that we can get all the way to the cabin. Right now, there
is a chance of a vehicle high centering on it. Will the salt
particles melt through that much snow, and clear that?

I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am
unfamiliar with this. Help appreciated. We also have one of the
weed burners that sounds like a F15 that we could take up there and
just melt it, but was thinking about the snow idea. I think both
would cost about the same, and be the same effort.


Sprinkle fireplace ash, or anything else "black" on the snow, and let the sun do
the job.

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 21:06:10 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 23:12:49 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:31:19 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 19:08:32 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 15:12:13 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:20:33 -0400, wrote:

Really, "solar salt" does a really crappy job of melting snow. Tried
it.

Good to know. Now I know why I don't live in a heavy snow area
anymore...

I've known for some time. If I ever wonder, I go into the garage and
take a quick look at my snow shovel. ;-)


Traveling Sowff, throw the shovel out when you stop seeing snow. I
was told that about my former snow plow - drop it an disconnect it.

Nah, it makes a great long-handled dust pan. After I use it I go
inside and call the kid and razz him about having to shovel snow.


Good idea for a dust pan. Didn't think of that one.

It's a heavy pusher. Other than being heavy, it works great.

Oh, don't let the kid forget. Keep him reminded every year :-\

Oh, we don't. Whenever the NE gets hit, we give them a call and give
them a GA weather report. ;-)

Out here in the West, I'm not sure one can buy rock salt like used up
Nawth. At least in any large quantity.

I've seen it here in the Sowth but I can't remember where or why. It
does get icy every few years but everyone just sleeps in.

Must be a hardware store. Rock salt is used for making ice cream in
the Sowff. It's not a miff, er, myth.

No, this was the ice-melt variety. Again, I can't remember where I
saw it but I did get a chuckle.

When you move South one tends forget about such things.

I don't forget. Smirk, yes. ;-)

I went North for work - took me some years to get home, south of the
Mason-Dixon, away from the cold and snow. I came West and landed in
the desert.

Lived just west of Lake Placid, NY (Saranac Lake). Then central PA
(Milton) south of Williamsport.

I know that area fairly well. We lived a little East of Lake Placid
(Burlington VT). Sucked, big time.

I'll never go back. I've been in shorts and flops for years now.

We'll never go back. When I was looking for work in '11 SWMBO laid
down the law; "NO MORE SNOW". I did move North (75mi. up I-85) and
that was enough for her.

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 11:17:52 -0700, wrote:

He could sprinkle some amount out in one small area
and see what happens....

I've seen it "work" but I've never really understood how salt, which raises the freezing point, "melts" ice.

It seems to me, that salt doesn't melt ice so much as it prevents ice from forming out of water puddles.

I guess, with the warmth of the sun, that's tantamount to the same thing though.

But how does it work when it's really cold outside (so cold that water never forms from the ice)?

carson ridder writes:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 11:17:52 -0700, wrote:

He could sprinkle some amount out in one small area
and see what happens....

I've seen it "work" but I've never really understood how salt, which raises the freezing point, "melts" ice.

It seems to me, that salt doesn't melt ice so much as it prevents ice from forming out of water puddles.

I guess, with the warmth of the sun, that's tantamount to the same thing though.

But how does it work when it's really cold outside (so cold that water never forms from the ice)?

All it takes is a little salt water to form, then you have the salt
water liquid dissolving more salt and wetting more ice.

Even when ice is way below the freezing point, there's always a little
water being formed and re-frozen. The same way water can evaporate
without boiling.

--
Dan Espen