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Salt for melting snow
I have a situation at our cabin. The last of the approach to the cabin is
about 1/4 mile. It goes up and down hills. One is a little steep. It is also shaded. It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. It looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade. I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so that we can get all the way to the cabin. Right now, there is a chance of a vehicle high centering on it. Will the salt particles melt through that much snow, and clear that? I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am unfamiliar with this. Help appreciated. We also have one of the weed burners that sounds like a F15 that we could take up there and just melt it, but was thinking about the snow idea. I think both would cost about the same, and be the same effort. Steve |
Salt for melting snow
On Apr 1, 5:00*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
I have a situation at our cabin. *The last of the approach to the cabin is about 1/4 mile. *It goes up and down hills. *One is a little steep. *It is also shaded. *It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. *It looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade. I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so that we can get all the way to the cabin. *Right now, there is a chance of a vehicle high centering on it. *Will the salt particles melt through that much snow, and clear that? I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am unfamiliar with this. *Help appreciated. *We also have one of the weed burners that sounds like a F15 that we could take up there and just melt it, but was thinking about the snow idea. *I think both would cost about the same, and be the same effort. Steve We use it here in the UK all the time. It is only effective on thin snow/ice and depends on wheeled traffic to pulverise and melt the snow. If you apply it on thick ice you will likely get large "potholes" formed. You should keep the road ploughed on a regular basis and not let it get packed down and regularly apply salt. It will not melt the ice at temperatures below 15degF. Trying to melt the snow with heat will never work due to the latent heat needed to melt ice. Oh and BTW salt only works on sealed surface,s eg tarmac or concrete. On unsealed tracks, the salty water just drains away though the aggregate and is lost. |
Salt for melting snow
"Steve B" wrote in :
I have a situation at our cabin. The last of the approach to the cabin is about 1/4 mile. It goes up and down hills. One is a little steep. It is also shaded. It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. It looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade. I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so that we can get all the way to the cabin. Right now, there is a chance of a vehicle high centering on it. Will the salt particles melt through that much snow, and clear that? Nope. Not unless you use a truckload of salt. I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am unfamiliar with this. The proper tool for snow removal is a shovel for small amounts, a plow for large amounts. If the snow is more than a few inches deep, salt is ineffective. |
Salt for melting snow
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 12:29:27 -0700, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 11:17:52 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: The proper tool for snow removal is a shovel for small amounts, a plow for large amounts. If the snow is more than a few inches deep, salt is ineffective. He could sprinkle some amount out in one small area and see what happens.... I would try it. Solar salt crystals (water softener - not the pellets) cost less than $5.00 for a 40# bag at HD. And a 40pound bag will make a pretty decent hole in about 10 square feet of packed snow a foot deep. It sounds like a job for a bucket-loader at this point. Jim |
Salt for melting snow
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:53:49 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote: On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 12:29:27 -0700, Oren wrote: On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 11:17:52 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: The proper tool for snow removal is a shovel for small amounts, a plow for large amounts. If the snow is more than a few inches deep, salt is ineffective. He could sprinkle some amount out in one small area and see what happens.... I would try it. Solar salt crystals (water softener - not the pellets) cost less than $5.00 for a 40# bag at HD. And a 40pound bag will make a pretty decent hole in about 10 square feet of packed snow a foot deep. It sounds like a job for a bucket-loader at this point. Jim Steve's cabin is in southern Utah. I'd give the snow a few days to melt and not worry about salt, plows, shovels, torches, etc. Southern Nevada is frequently in the 80F temps for a few weeks now. We have already hit a few times in the low 90's. |
Salt for melting snow
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:53:49 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote: On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 12:29:27 -0700, Oren wrote: On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 11:17:52 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: The proper tool for snow removal is a shovel for small amounts, a plow for large amounts. If the snow is more than a few inches deep, salt is ineffective. He could sprinkle some amount out in one small area and see what happens.... I would try it. Solar salt crystals (water softener - not the pellets) cost less than $5.00 for a 40# bag at HD. And a 40pound bag will make a pretty decent hole in about 10 square feet of packed snow a foot deep. About 1' x 2' if it's dropped on its side. ;-) Really, "solar salt" does a really crappy job of melting snow. Tried it. It sounds like a job for a bucket-loader at this point. |
Salt for melting snow
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Salt for melting snow
On 4/1/2013 12:00 PM, Steve B wrote:
I have a situation at our cabin. The last of the approach to the cabin is about 1/4 mile. It goes up and down hills. One is a little steep. It is also shaded. It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. It looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade. I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so that we can get all the way to the cabin. Right now, there is a chance of a vehicle high centering on it. Will the salt particles melt through that much snow, and clear that? I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am unfamiliar with this. Help appreciated. We also have one of the weed burners that sounds like a F15 that we could take up there and just melt it, but was thinking about the snow idea. I think both would cost about the same, and be the same effort. Steve Salt does not melt through snow. It dissolves and lowers the freezing point of water which is the melting. Eventually it becomes too dilute to have much effect. Point is you may need a lot of salt to get the job done. |
Salt for melting snow
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 15:12:13 -0700, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:20:33 -0400, wrote: Really, "solar salt" does a really crappy job of melting snow. Tried it. Good to know. Now I know why I don't live in a heavy snow area anymore... I've known for some time. If I ever wonder, I go into the garage and take a quick look at my snow shovel. ;-) Out here in the West, I'm not sure one can buy rock salt like used up Nawth. At least in any large quantity. I've seen it here in the Sowth but I can't remember where or why. It does get icy every few years but everyone just sleeps in. |
Salt for melting snow
On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 09:00:14 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:
I have a situation at our cabin. The last of the approach to the cabin is about 1/4 mile. It goes up and down hills. One is a little steep. It is also shaded. It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. It looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade. I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so that we can get all the way to the cabin. Right now, there is a chance of a vehicle high centering on it. Will the salt particles melt through that much snow, and clear that? I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am unfamiliar with this. Help appreciated. We also have one of the weed burners that sounds like a F15 that we could take up there and just melt it, but was thinking about the snow idea. I think both would cost about the same, and be the same effort. Steve Dump on several cases of salt. Then buy a case of type AA or type D batteries and dump them there too. You'll then have a CASE OF SALT AND BATTERY! |
Salt for melting snow
"Frank" wrote Salt does not melt through snow. It dissolves and lowers the freezing point of water which is the melting. Eventually it becomes too dilute to have much effect. Point is you may need a lot of salt to get the job done. Thanks. That was one of my questions, how deep would the salt melt the snow before it diluted out and quit working. I'm going up this week with four bags and my flame thrower, and put a dent in it. Steve |
Salt for melting snow
"Jim Elbrecht" wrote It sounds like a job for a bucket-loader at this point. Jim Got one, but think that it might get too muddy after I did clean it out, and be hard to get back up the hill. Plus, loading up a heavy loader, and hauling it up in the mountains is another thing. Steve |
Salt for melting snow
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:31:19 -0700, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 19:08:32 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 15:12:13 -0700, Oren wrote: On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:20:33 -0400, wrote: Really, "solar salt" does a really crappy job of melting snow. Tried it. Good to know. Now I know why I don't live in a heavy snow area anymore... I've known for some time. If I ever wonder, I go into the garage and take a quick look at my snow shovel. ;-) Traveling Sowff, throw the shovel out when you stop seeing snow. I was told that about my former snow plow - drop it an disconnect it. Nah, it makes a great long-handled dust pan. After I use it I go inside and call the kid and razz him about having to shovel snow. Out here in the West, I'm not sure one can buy rock salt like used up Nawth. At least in any large quantity. I've seen it here in the Sowth but I can't remember where or why. It does get icy every few years but everyone just sleeps in. Must be a hardware store. Rock salt is used for making ice cream in the Sowff. It's not a miff, er, myth. No, this was the ice-melt variety. Again, I can't remember where I saw it but I did get a chuckle. |
Salt for melting snow
On Apr 1, 11:00*am, "Steve B" wrote:
I have a situation at our cabin. *The last of the approach to the cabin is about 1/4 mile. *It goes up and down hills. *One is a little steep. *It is also shaded. *It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. *It looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade. I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so that we can get all the way to the cabin. *Right now, there is a chance of a vehicle high centering on it. *Will the salt particles melt through that much snow, and clear that? I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am unfamiliar with this. *Help appreciated. *We also have one of the weed burners that sounds like a F15 that we could take up there and just melt it, but was thinking about the snow idea. *I think both would cost about the same, and be the same effort. Steve how about one of these? http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011...-logs-on-fire/ |
Salt for melting snow
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 23:12:49 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:31:19 -0700, Oren wrote: On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 19:08:32 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 15:12:13 -0700, Oren wrote: On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:20:33 -0400, wrote: Really, "solar salt" does a really crappy job of melting snow. Tried it. Good to know. Now I know why I don't live in a heavy snow area anymore... I've known for some time. If I ever wonder, I go into the garage and take a quick look at my snow shovel. ;-) Traveling Sowff, throw the shovel out when you stop seeing snow. I was told that about my former snow plow - drop it an disconnect it. Nah, it makes a great long-handled dust pan. After I use it I go inside and call the kid and razz him about having to shovel snow. Good idea for a dust pan. Didn't think of that one. Oh, don't let the kid forget. Keep him reminded every year :-\ Out here in the West, I'm not sure one can buy rock salt like used up Nawth. At least in any large quantity. I've seen it here in the Sowth but I can't remember where or why. It does get icy every few years but everyone just sleeps in. Must be a hardware store. Rock salt is used for making ice cream in the Sowff. It's not a miff, er, myth. No, this was the ice-melt variety. Again, I can't remember where I saw it but I did get a chuckle. When you move South one tends forget about such things. I went North for work - took me some years to get home, south of the Mason-Dixon, away from the cold and snow. I came West and landed in the desert. Lived just west of Lake Placid, NY (Saranac Lake). Then central PA (Milton) south of Williamsport. I'll never go back. I've been in shorts and flops for years now. |
Quote:
Is this a foot path that you're wanting to clear the snow off of or a road? Initially, I thought you were talking about a foot path, but then you expressed concern that a vehicle could high center on it. Forget the weed burner idea; you'll just turn that road or path into a skating rink cuz the water won't get warm enough to drain completely away. You'll make water that's just a little warmer than freezing that drains away a little and then refreeze again. You'll end up with 3 or 4 inches of solid ice on your path/road instead of 12 to 18 inches of hard packed snow. Then you'll have a harder time getting up that hill than you do now. |
Salt for melting snow
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 05:23:01 +0000, nestork
wrote: 'Steve B[_13_ Wrote: ;3039542']I have a situation at our cabin. The last of the approach to the cabin is about 1/4 mile. It goes up and down hills. One is a little steep. It is also shaded. It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. It looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade. I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so that we can get all the way to the cabin. Right now, there is a chance of a vehicle high centering on it. Will the salt particles melt through that much snow, and clear that? I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am unfamiliar with this. Help appreciated. We also have one of the weed burners that sounds like a F15 that we could take up there and just melt it, but was thinking about the snow idea. I think both would cost about the same, and be the same effort. Steve Steve: Is this a foot path that you're wanting to clear the snow off of or a road? Initially, I thought you were talking about a foot path, but then you expressed concern that a vehicle could high center on it. Forget the weed burner idea; you'll just turn that road or path into a skating rink cuz the water won't get warm enough to drain completely away. You'll make water that's just a little warmer than freezing that drains away a little and then refreeze again. You'll end up with 3 or 4 inches of solid ice on your path/road instead of 12 to 18 inches of hard packed snow. Then you'll have a harder time getting up that hill than you do now. I think the OP should just hire someone with a snowplow and be dont with it. I live on a farm, I use salt on spots that are in places where I might fall, like the sidewalk to the house, in front of the hayshed, etc. But doing a large area is gonna require a lot of salt, and that salt can and will damage the grass in the summer. It just seems like a big waste of money and time, considering the snow will all melt in a week or two anyhow, but a snowplow would do the job if it must be done now, and likely with less hassle and about the same price if the right guy is found. In other words, a guy who is fairly priced. The few times I've had to hire someone, I get the job done for $75 to $100 (long driveway). Yet, some guy quoted me $500 for the same driveway. I made sure to tell others that he's a crook and to not hire him, while the guys who charge a fair price have gotten lots of referrals from me. |
Salt for melting snow
That makes sense -- the melt will go from the high center, to the low wheel
tracks, and refreeze. With the road being on a hill, the water may run down a few feet before refreezing. The salt idea may have the same problem. As the snow melts, it's got to go some where. Of course, it will be dissolved with salt in it, so the salt idea will move the water farther away. .. Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. .. "nestork" wrote in message ... Forget the weed burner idea; you'll just turn that road or path into a skating rink cuz the water won't get warm enough to drain completely away. You'll make water that's just a little warmer than freezing that drains away a little and then refreeze again. You'll end up with 3 or 4 inches of solid ice on your path/road instead of 12 to 18 inches of hard packed snow. Then you'll have a harder time getting up that hill than you do now. -- nestork |
Salt for melting snow
On Monday, April 1, 2013 12:00:14 PM UTC-4, Steve B wrote:
I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so that we can get all the way to the cabin. Right now, there is a chance of a vehicle high centering on it. Will the salt particles melt through that much snow, and clear that? It will take a f*ck-ton of salt, and cost a fortune, for a one-time thing. A "sprinkle" of salt will melt a thin layer of ice, not 18" of packed snow. Same with the heat. Your piddly little weed burner won't make a dent. It will take days and days, and several tanks of propane. By then nature will probably do most of the work. Fastest and cheapest way to get rid of it is to break it up with picks and axes, and shovel it out of the way. |
Quote:
Rock salt is used in water softeners, so, anyone living in a rural area that gets their water from a well and isn't supplied with soft water from a nearby city or town will either have to live with hard water or have their own small water softener in their house for their own use. But the size of the of salt will be different for use in a water softener and for melting ice on sidewalks and stairs. The salt used in water softeners will typically be "1 inch clean", which means salt that'll pass through a sifting screen with 1 1/4 inch gaps between the wires, but not through a sifting screen with 1 inch gaps between the wires. You need large gaps between the salt stones to allow water to flow easily through the salt bed and to have a large area of contact between the salt and the hard water. The kind of salt we buy up here to melt ice will typically be "quarter inch down", which means everything that will pass through a sifting screen with 1/4 inch wide gaps between the wires. So, what you get in a bag of ice melting salt will be smaller than 1/4 inch in any dimension, and much of it will be the size of sand or even as fine as dust. The primary difference between the two kinds of salt is that the stuff used in water softeners has got to be food grade salt, whereas the stuff you scatter on your steps doesn't have to be food grade, and while much of it will be white, you'll find all kinds of other garbage in it. Water softener salt will be white as Manitoba snow cuz it's pure NaCl, just like table salt. |
Salt for melting snow
On Apr 1, 12:00*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
I have a situation at our cabin. *The last of the approach to the cabin is about 1/4 mile. *It goes up and down hills. *One is a little steep. *It is also shaded. *It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. *It looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade. This summer remove the shade, to make ice melting easier next year....... think tree trimming for now if you must have access get a guy with a plow.... and perhaps salt....... |
Salt for melting snow
Steve B wrote:
I have a situation at our cabin. The last of the approach to the cabin is about 1/4 mile. It goes up and down hills. One is a little steep. It is also shaded. It is crowned with a pack of snow from 12 to 18 " thick. It looks like it could take a few more weeks to melt in the shade. I wanted to take some coarse salt and sprinkle on it, and help it go away so that we can get all the way to the cabin. Right now, there is a chance of a vehicle high centering on it. Will the salt particles melt through that much snow, and clear that? I have never lived in an area where we used salt on snow, so am unfamiliar with this. Help appreciated. We also have one of the weed burners that sounds like a F15 that we could take up there and just melt it, but was thinking about the snow idea. I think both would cost about the same, and be the same effort. Sprinkle fireplace ash, or anything else "black" on the snow, and let the sun do the job. |
Salt for melting snow
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 21:06:10 -0700, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 23:12:49 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:31:19 -0700, Oren wrote: On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 19:08:32 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 15:12:13 -0700, Oren wrote: On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:20:33 -0400, wrote: Really, "solar salt" does a really crappy job of melting snow. Tried it. Good to know. Now I know why I don't live in a heavy snow area anymore... I've known for some time. If I ever wonder, I go into the garage and take a quick look at my snow shovel. ;-) Traveling Sowff, throw the shovel out when you stop seeing snow. I was told that about my former snow plow - drop it an disconnect it. Nah, it makes a great long-handled dust pan. After I use it I go inside and call the kid and razz him about having to shovel snow. Good idea for a dust pan. Didn't think of that one. It's a heavy pusher. Other than being heavy, it works great. Oh, don't let the kid forget. Keep him reminded every year :-\ Oh, we don't. Whenever the NE gets hit, we give them a call and give them a GA weather report. ;-) Out here in the West, I'm not sure one can buy rock salt like used up Nawth. At least in any large quantity. I've seen it here in the Sowth but I can't remember where or why. It does get icy every few years but everyone just sleeps in. Must be a hardware store. Rock salt is used for making ice cream in the Sowff. It's not a miff, er, myth. No, this was the ice-melt variety. Again, I can't remember where I saw it but I did get a chuckle. When you move South one tends forget about such things. I don't forget. Smirk, yes. ;-) I went North for work - took me some years to get home, south of the Mason-Dixon, away from the cold and snow. I came West and landed in the desert. Lived just west of Lake Placid, NY (Saranac Lake). Then central PA (Milton) south of Williamsport. I know that area fairly well. We lived a little East of Lake Placid (Burlington VT). Sucked, big time. I'll never go back. I've been in shorts and flops for years now. We'll never go back. When I was looking for work in '11 SWMBO laid down the law; "NO MORE SNOW". I did move North (75mi. up I-85) and that was enough for her. |
Salt for melting snow
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Salt for melting snow
carson ridder writes:
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 11:17:52 -0700, wrote: He could sprinkle some amount out in one small area and see what happens.... I've seen it "work" but I've never really understood how salt, which raises the freezing point, "melts" ice. It seems to me, that salt doesn't melt ice so much as it prevents ice from forming out of water puddles. I guess, with the warmth of the sun, that's tantamount to the same thing though. But how does it work when it's really cold outside (so cold that water never forms from the ice)? All it takes is a little salt water to form, then you have the salt water liquid dissolving more salt and wetting more ice. Even when ice is way below the freezing point, there's always a little water being formed and re-frozen. The same way water can evaporate without boiling. -- Dan Espen |
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