Q1: How does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?
Q2: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes (with a trap door?)?
Q3: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out?
Q4: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple?

Sorry to not have a picture as I had just returned from celebrating
Easter when my sister called me saying her kitchen sink had suddenly
overflowed during cleanup - so I rushed back to snake it but without my
camera.

Turns out you can't snake a kitchen sink (at least I don't know how)
because one side has a garbage disposal while the other side has a built-
in "cage" of some sort (which I guess comes apart from underneath).

So, instead of snaking it, I looked for that little trap door on the
bottom of the trap curve, but the pipes are all plastic which had no trap
door. So I simply unscrewed the J pipe under the sink, only to find 4
inches thick ground up eggshells blocking the water flow. No problem, I
thought - but then the real problems showed up when I tried to put it all
back together.

The horizontal plastic pipe AFTER the J pipe is supposed to be screwed
onto a 1960's vintage steel threaded 1.5" pipe that juts out of the wall
only about 1/4".

Turns out that steel horizontal pipe is badly corroded. The plastic pipe
after the "J" which fits onto the horizontal pipe has female threads, but
the male threads on the steel pipe are gone - so it's only a press fit
right now. I see a lot of caulking around it - so I'm assuming it was
this way for a while but now it leaks (I didn't have any caulking with me
and all the stores were closed today).

So, what I'd like to ask is advice. Again, I apologize for the lack of
pictures. I'll snap some tomorrow as I told my sis I'd fix it for her in
the morning.

My plan?

I have no idea, but, I might first need to cut a five inch (or so) hole
in the back of the kitchen cabinet plywood with a 4" angle grinder just
to SEE what's there so I can get ideas for the repair.

If I see a 1.5" diameter "nipple", I might try to unscrew it - but - I
can't imagine what TOOL will unscrew a nipple because there is no room to
get a pipe wrench on it since it sticks out so little from the back
cabinet wall.

If I can't unscrew the nipple, then I will try to put some kind of
compression fitting on it (I guess).

Also, I might look for a "J" trap replacement that has an actual TRAP in
it so that we don't have to disassemble it again the next time my sister
puts a few dozen egg's worth of eggshells in the disposal unit.

My questions?
Q1: How does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?
Q2: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes (with a trap door?)?
Q3: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out?
Q4: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple?

On Mar 31, 9:56*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
Q1: How does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?
Q2: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes (with a trap door?)?
Q3: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out?
Q4: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple?

Sorry to not have a picture as I had just returned from celebrating
Easter when my sister called me saying her kitchen sink had suddenly
overflowed during cleanup - so I rushed back to snake it but without my
camera.

Turns out you can't snake a kitchen sink (at least I don't know how)
because one side has a garbage disposal while the other side has a built-
in "cage" of some sort (which I guess comes apart from underneath).

So, instead of snaking it, I looked for that little trap door on the
bottom of the trap curve, but the pipes are all plastic which had no trap
door. So I simply unscrewed the J pipe under the sink, only to find 4
inches thick ground up eggshells blocking the water flow. No problem, I
thought - but then the real problems showed up when I tried to put it all
back together.

The horizontal plastic pipe AFTER the J pipe is supposed to be screwed
onto a 1960's vintage steel threaded 1.5" pipe that juts out of the wall
only about 1/4".

Turns out that steel horizontal pipe is badly corroded. The plastic pipe
after the "J" which fits onto the horizontal pipe has female threads, but
the male threads on the steel pipe are gone - so it's only a press fit
right now. I see a lot of caulking around it - so I'm assuming it was
this way for a while but now it leaks (I didn't have any caulking with me
and all the stores were closed today).

So, what I'd like to ask is advice. Again, I apologize for the lack of
pictures. I'll snap some tomorrow as I told my sis I'd fix it for her in
the morning.

My plan?

I have no idea, but, I might first need to cut a five inch (or so) hole
in the back of the kitchen cabinet plywood with a 4" angle grinder just
to SEE what's there so I can get ideas for the repair.

If I see a 1.5" diameter "nipple", I might try to unscrew it - but - I
can't imagine what TOOL will unscrew a nipple because there is no room to
get a pipe wrench on it since it sticks out so little from the back
cabinet wall.

If I can't unscrew the nipple, then I will try to put some kind of
compression fitting on it (I guess).

Also, I might look for a "J" trap replacement that has an actual TRAP in
it so that we don't have to disassemble it again the next time my sister
puts a few dozen egg's worth of eggshells in the disposal unit.

My questions?
Q1: How does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?
Q2: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes (with a trap door?)?
Q3: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out?
Q4: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple?

You MIGHT be able to cut the screw in fitting but your probably better
off opening the wall and after supporting the top end cut the T clear,
snake the line you may find its a rusted mess, and begin replacing the
entire line perhaps to the basement....

I had this sort of problem in my bathroom, after piecing it 3 times I
bit the bullet, opened everything from above the T in the batroom to
the basement. Earlier owners had replaced areas too. after looking at
what a mess I got a plumber to replace it all, including the cast iron
in the basement that was nearly rotted thru......

plumber spent the day, improved the slope a lot in areas. 900 bucks
well spent.....

a good bit of the line was copper, I got over a 120 bucks for the
scrap copper line which was full of crud, and so thin it could be
crushed with lite hand pressure.

On Mar 31, 9:56*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
Q1: How does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?
Q2: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes (with a trap door?)?
Q3: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out?
Q4: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple?

Sorry to not have a picture as I had just returned from celebrating
Easter when my sister called me saying her kitchen sink had suddenly
overflowed during cleanup - so I rushed back to snake it but without my
camera.

Turns out you can't snake a kitchen sink (at least I don't know how)
because one side has a garbage disposal while the other side has a built-
in "cage" of some sort (which I guess comes apart from underneath).

So, instead of snaking it, I looked for that little trap door on the
bottom of the trap curve, but the pipes are all plastic which had no trap
door. So I simply unscrewed the J pipe under the sink, only to find 4
inches thick ground up eggshells blocking the water flow. No problem, I
thought - but then the real problems showed up when I tried to put it all
back together.

The horizontal plastic pipe AFTER the J pipe is supposed to be screwed
onto a 1960's vintage steel threaded 1.5" pipe that juts out of the wall
only about 1/4".

Turns out that steel horizontal pipe is badly corroded. The plastic pipe
after the "J" which fits onto the horizontal pipe has female threads, but
the male threads on the steel pipe are gone - so it's only a press fit
right now. I see a lot of caulking around it - so I'm assuming it was
this way for a while but now it leaks (I didn't have any caulking with me
and all the stores were closed today).

So, what I'd like to ask is advice. Again, I apologize for the lack of
pictures. I'll snap some tomorrow as I told my sis I'd fix it for her in
the morning.

My plan?

I have no idea, but, I might first need to cut a five inch (or so) hole
in the back of the kitchen cabinet plywood with a 4" angle grinder just
to SEE what's there so I can get ideas for the repair.

If I see a 1.5" diameter "nipple", I might try to unscrew it - but - I
can't imagine what TOOL will unscrew a nipple because there is no room to
get a pipe wrench on it since it sticks out so little from the back
cabinet wall.

If I can't unscrew the nipple, then I will try to put some kind of
compression fitting on it (I guess).

Also, I might look for a "J" trap replacement that has an actual TRAP in
it so that we don't have to disassemble it again the next time my sister
puts a few dozen egg's worth of eggshells in the disposal unit.

My questions?
Q1: How does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?
Q2: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes (with a trap door?)?
Q3: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out?
Q4: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple?

go all plastic with a p trap that can be opened in the future

On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:12:23 -0700 bob haller wrote:

go all plastic with a p trap that can be opened in the future

It's already all plastic from the sink to the nipple sticking out of the
wall. I will try to get LARGER diameter plastic though (so that it
doesn't clog up again) and one with a trap that can be opened.

But, how does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?

And, WHAT TOOL will spin off a nipple when you only have 1/4" sticking
out?

How does one snake out a kitchen sink drain?

Where I live, in Manitoba, the local plumbing code requires that there be a clean out on the vent/drain pipe that the sink empties into.

So, in this diagram:



Our plumbing code would require that there be a clean out located on that vertical pipe labeled "individual ventilation pipe" a few inches above where the trap arm attaches. That way, a plumber can run his snake into that clean out while water is running in the sink to carry whatever the snake cuts off the ID of the drain pipe away. In my opinion, it's stupid to put the clean out in the trap arm the way it's depicted in the drawing because there normally won't be room for a wye there, and it's located where it creates three more connections that could possible leak. In my way of thinking, putting the clean out in the vent pipe above the trap arm is the smarter way to do it cuz you'll never have water leakage out that clean out if it's located there instead.


2. Do you suggest larger diameter plastic "J" pipes with a trap door?

If by "J" pipe you mean a "p-trap" and by trap door you mean a clean out at the bottom of the p-trap, then that's not the route I'd take. A 1 1/2 inch P-trap should be big enough to prevent anything from clogging up that trap.

If you have the room, I would remove that rusted nipple and screw in a piece of 1 1/2" PVC or ABS pipe with a male thread adapter cemented onto it. So, the male thread adapter will screw in where the nipple is now. Then, glue a short piece of ABS or PVC pipe into the downstream end of your P-trap. Then connect the two pieces of PVC or ABS pipe with a Fernco coupling like this:



That way, you can always remove the p-trap to clear it without having to worry that it's going to leak when you put it back in. If it does, you just glue up a new p-trap and put it in. Without that Fernco in there, if the p-trap leaks at it's middle union, you gotta start unscrewing it from the tee in the wall.

3. What tool spins off a 1 1/2 inch steel nipple when only 1/4 inch sticks out.

You need something called an "internal pipe wrench", like this;



It consists of an externally toothed wheel that turns on an eccentric shaft. You turn the toothed wheel so that it you can slide the whole tool into the ID of the nipple, and then turn the tool counter clockwise. As you do that the externally toothed smaller wheel swings outward to grip the inside diameter of the nipple, and the harder you turn the tool, the more the wheel's teeth bite into the ID of the nipple and turn it in the direction you're turning the tool.

The internal pipe wrench in that picture is what's commonly available for 1/2 inch steel or brass threaded piping. You can buy or rent the same thing for 1 to 2 inch threaded piping, and one is shown below:



But, you can't explain how the thing works from looking at the correct picture above. Check to see if Home Depot rents these things. If not, most tool rental places should. In the mean time, try to put some penetrating oil on the threads of that nipple to make extracting it easier. And, if it wuz me, I would phone up some of the major plumbing wholesalers or plumbing companies in your area and ask them if they'll borrow you a 1 1/2 inch NPT tap to clean up the threads in the tee in your wall if you put down a $100 damage deposit on it. That way, you can clean out all the crap that's accumulated in the threads of the tee in the wall over the years. Some tool rental places might rent these too.

4. Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded steel nipple.

No. compression fittings are made for 3/8, 1/2 and 3/4 inch COPPER pipe, which will have a different OD than threaded iron pipe.

If push comes to shove, you may have to cut the back wall of the cabinet out, then the wall around the nipple and heat the tee that nipple is threaded into with an acetylene (or perhaps propane) torch to expand it and break the nipple loose from the tee.

Welcome to the wonderful world of home ownership.

On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 03:38:11 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:12:23 -0700 bob haller wrote:

go all plastic with a p trap that can be opened in the future

It's already all plastic from the sink to the nipple sticking out of the
wall. I will try to get LARGER diameter plastic though (so that it
doesn't clog up again) and one with a trap that can be opened.


I never saw a kitchen P-trap with a built-in clean-out. Sound like
trouble to me.
Usually the sink drain basket size and sink line size determine drain
trap piping size.
1 1/2' is common and enough. Your rusty nipple goes into a 1 1/2"
T in the wall. That has vent pipe above and sink line below.

But, how does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?


I've always done what you already did. Remove the trap and clean it.
Then if you want to snake the sink line the snake is easily fed into
the wall fitting. Disposals and dishwasher drains just make it a bit
more work.


And, WHAT TOOL will spin off a nipple when you only have 1/4" sticking
out?

Internal pipe wrench.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/RID...e-Wrench-1VUV1
Or pull the cabinet so you can get at it with a regular pipe wrench.
I ran into a rusty 1/2" water supply nipple that my helper broke off,
and no way to get a wrench on it. I ground an old chisel so it would
cut into the pipe when I hammered it in. Used a wrench on the hex
chisel shank to turn the nipple out. Don't know that would work on
1 1/2". Depends on how tight it is. Besides that, it sounds like you
have a coupling on that nipple, since it's female threads showing.
The common setup here is the 1 1/2 male nipple threads poking through
the wall. A 1 1/4" drain slips into the stub and is connected with a
slip joint compression nut/washer on the male threads. ! 1/2" uses a
compression nut/washer too, but the drain pipe isn't slipped into the
wall stub, but connected end-to-end.
Not sure all the terminology is correct, but that's how it works.
You might look into using a Fernco connector on the stub showing, and
not have the work of removing/replacing it..

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 00:18:46 -0500 Vic Smith wrote:
I never saw a kitchen P-trap with a built-in clean-out.

That's interesting!
How are we supposed to clean them out then?

The sink drain basket size and sink line size determine drain
trap piping size. 1 1/2' is common and enough.

Oh. OK. Makes sense.
All I had known was the current size clogged from a woman doing normal
kitchen chores.

Your rusty nipple goes into a 1 1/2" T in the wall.
That has vent pipe above and sink line below.

Should I be worried about twisting the rusty nipple and ending up
damaging the T in the wall (which would be difficult to get to because
the built in kitchen cabinet sink is in front of it).

Remove the trap and clean it.

OK. I guess that explains why there was no way I could get a snake into
that kitchen sink from the top.

Internal pipe wrench.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/RID...e-Wrench-1VUV1

Ah. I had never seen one of those before!
Hand Tools Plumbing Tools Plumbing Specialty Tools
RIDGID Internal Pipe Wrench, 1-2 In Cap, 4 1/2 L
Internal Pipe Wrench, Capacity 1 To 2 In, Overall Length 4 1/2 In,
Steel With Sliding T Handle and Knurled Jaws,
Jaws Expand By Eccentric Action and Are Reversible For Various Sizes,
Holds Closet Spuds, Bath, Basin and Sink Strainers Through 2 In,
Used To Install or Extract 1 to 2 In Nipples

Nor these:
GENERAL Pipe Wrench Set
Internal Pipe Wrench Set, Pipe Capacity 3/8 to 1 Inch, 4 Pieces,
To Remove Frozen Pipe

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 00:18:46 -0500 Vic Smith wrote:

Or pull the cabinet so you can get at it with a regular pipe wrench.

The cabinet is tiled in, so, that would be a ton of work!
(I'd rather remove the entire back by cutting it out!

sounds like you have a coupling on that nipple, since it's
female threads showing.

I must have explained badly as the PLASTIC horizontal tube after the P
trap is what has female threads.

The 1.5" diameter rusted nipple has MALE threads (not many, but my
fingernail can barely feel them on the 1/4" that is sticking horizontally
out of the back of the built-in sink cabinet).

You might look into using a Fernco connector on the stub showing, and
not have the work of removing/replacing it..

Googling for Fernco came up with PERFECT options for a clamped on fitting!
It's like a rubber car radiator hose! I like it. It probably needs more
bite than the 1/4" of rusted male nipple threads sticking out, but if I
cut a bigger hole around the pipe in the cabinet backing, I might gain an
inch of pipe to fit the Fernco on.

Thanks for that advice. Tomorrow, I'll head off to Home Depot to pick up
a Fernco and I'll look to see if they have the internal pipe wrenches!

I'll snap pictures for you to see the results.

On Apr 1, 1:36*am, "Danny D." wrote:
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 00:18:46 -0500 Vic Smith wrote:

I never saw a kitchen P-trap with a built-in clean-out.

That's interesting!

P-trap with clean-out is a common item.


How are we supposed to clean them out then?

Either using the clean-out or if it doesn't have one,
then you have to take it apart. Taking it apart not only
is more work, but may introduce new complications,
as you found out.




The sink drain basket size and sink line size determine drain
trap piping size. 1 1/2' is common and enough.

Oh. OK. Makes sense.
All I had known was the current size clogged from a woman doing normal
kitchen chores.

Your rusty nipple goes into a 1 1/2" T in the wall.
That has vent pipe above and sink line below.

Maybe. Or it could be a waste pipe coming from
another source, and continuing on it's way down.



Should I be worried about twisting the rusty nipple and ending up
damaging the T in the wall (which would be difficult to get to because
the built in kitchen cabinet sink is in front of it).

Yes. It depends on how old it all is and what shape the
rest of it is in. Usually in that kind of situation, you can
torque it without much concern because there usually
isn't much place for the pipe in the wall to go. But if it's
old and failing, yes, more of it could fail.

If the steel nipple is still in serviceable shape
other than the threads, an alternate solution would be
to leave it be and use a
Fernco coupling. Fernco is basically a section of rubber
hose with stainless steel clamps that fits over the ends
of two pipes, thereby joining them. But you'd have to open
up the cabinet/wall enough to get a short screwdriver in
to tighten the clamps.

For opening the wall, I'd use a drywall saw or similar,
or a sabre saw if you can get it in there, instead of an
angle grinder.




Remove the trap and clean it.

OK. I guess that explains why there was no way I could get a snake into
that kitchen sink from the top.

Internal pipe wrench.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/RID...e-Wrench-1VUV1

Ah. I had never seen one of those before!
* * Hand Tools Plumbing Tools Plumbing Specialty Tools
* * RIDGID Internal Pipe Wrench, 1-2 In Cap, 4 1/2 L
* * Internal Pipe Wrench, Capacity 1 To 2 In, Overall Length 4 1/2 In,
* * Steel With Sliding T Handle and Knurled Jaws,
* * Jaws Expand By Eccentric Action and Are Reversible For Various Sizes,
* * Holds Closet Spuds, Bath, Basin and Sink Strainers Through 2 In,
* * Used To Install or Extract 1 to 2 In Nipples

Nor these:
* * GENERAL Pipe Wrench Set
* * Internal Pipe Wrench Set, Pipe Capacity 3/8 to 1 Inch, 4 Pieces,
* * To Remove Frozen Pipe

After beingg thru TWO of these I have found its better to cut the back
wall of the cabinet out, remove the drywall in a large area around the
T, and inspect the drain line going down, if its bad at all replace
everything.

I know this is a LOT of work but then it never happens again!

Or do a patch job and do it again in a short time

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 05:21:16 -0700 wrote:

I never saw a kitchen P-trap with a built-in clean-out.
P-trap with clean-out is a common item.

I'll look at Home Depot today for a p-trap with a clean out
because the best way to fix something is to put the money
into the parts (and not into the labor, which is DIY).

How are we supposed to clean them out then?

Taking it apart not only is more work, but may introduce
new complications, as you found out.

Yes. I'm a believer! If I can find a p-trap with a clean out,
that's what my sis will get!

Your rusty nipple goes into a 1 1/2" T in the wall.
That has vent pipe above and sink line below.

Maybe. Or it could be a waste pipe coming from
another source, and continuing on it's way down.

It's a very small house. She recently bought it after the
divorce - so she's on her own again. Kids all gone so it's
just her. Nothing is above the kitchen (it's only 1 floor).

But if it's old and failing, yes, more of it could fail.

That is what I'm worried about.

Fernco is basically a section of rubber hose with stainless
steel clamps that fits over the ends of two pipes ...

This seems the perfect solution if I can get enough meat
exposed on the end of the steel nipple by cutting away at
the cabinet backing (which appears to be 3/4 inch plywood).

For opening the wall, I'd use a drywall saw or similar,
or a sabre saw if you can get it in there, instead of an
angle grinder.

It is a tight fit, but I'll bring all the saws I can with
me. One thing I learned, is when I traveled to her house
(about 20 miles away from my home), I needed a LOT more
tools than she had in her garage (just screwdriver stuff)
that her ex husband had left for her.

Thanks for the advice! I will snap pictures today to pay
it forward, and post results, good or bad.

think of a Snake as only a temporary fix,
if you need drainage now [you won't get most
of the blockage out with a snake]

then think of a longer-term solution --
replacing current under sink pipes
[plastic sounds good]

marc

On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 01:56:57 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Q1: How does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?

Get the largest snake you can find. A copperhead should work well.
Then toss a mouse in the drain and let the snake chase it.

Q2: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes (with a trap door?)?

Huh????

Q3: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out?

My wife can spin her nipples without any tools. But hers are at least
10 inches diameter and stick out at least 12 inches. They spin forward
and reverse, from 27rpm to well over 5000rpm.

Q4: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple?

If your nipples are corroded, you need a new YOUNGER wife. Contact a
lawyer!

Sorry to not have a picture as I had just returned from celebrating
Easter when my sister called me saying her kitchen sink had suddenly
overflowed during cleanup - so I rushed back to snake it but without my
camera.


You need more than a camera, you need to call the Department of Homeland
Security. That's a flood and they need to investigate. Likely they
will demolish the house and provide a trailer house as a replacement.

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 03:44:25 +0000 nestork wrote:
http://www.plomberie-drain-debouchag...pl-1-1000.jpg]

Nice diagram!

It helps me anticipate and compare.
In my sister's case, the horizontal cleanout is a few feet BELOW
the kitchen sink because the kitchen is on an outside wall. I sent
a 75 foot snake into that cleanout, but, of course, it did nothing
because it doesn't go UP into the kitchen right above it.

Also, the diagram shows TWO threaded fittings on the "P pipe".
But I only have one threaded fitting; the other is glued and is only
threaded at the sink itself about a foot above the trap.

it's stupid to put the clean out in the trap arm the way it's
depicted in the drawing because there normally won't be room for a wye
there, and it's located where it creates three more connections that
could possible leak.

Luckily, my sister's house is as you would like it. That cleanout
is actually OUTSIDE the house (just below the kitchen window and off
a bit to the side). The cleanout juts outside the outside wall.

A 1 1/2 inch P-trap should be big enough to prevent anything from clogging
up that trap.

My sis didn't maliciously clog the p trap, and I wish I had a picture
of the 4 inches of ground up eggshells that I fished out of the trap,
but, certainly it couldn't handle a batch of Easter eggs!

Today, at Home Depot, I'll try to see if I can replace with as big a
pipe as I can get in there.

That way, you can always remove the p-trap to clear it without having to
worry that it's going to leak when you put it back in. If it does, you
just glue up a new p-trap and put it in. Without that Fernco in there,
if the p-trap leaks at it's middle union, you gotta start unscrewing it
from the tee in the wall.

This is a very useful idea and I will see if that will fit with the
room that I have (not much) between the P trap and the vertical steel
pipe in the wall.

Thanks for all the advice! I will post pictures later today as I'm getting
ready after dropping the kids off at school.

On Apr 1, 10:20*am, wrote:
think of a Snake as only a temporary fix,
if you need drainage now [you won't get most
of the blockage out with a snake]

then think of a longer-term solution --
replacing current under sink pipes
[plastic sounds good]

marc

What nonsense. Just because you have to snake
a drain pipe means you have to replace it? Plenty
of drains get clogged for one reason or another, having
nothing to do with the pipes needing to be replaced.
In this case, sending egg shells down the drain is
the cause.

On Sunday, March 31, 2013 11:38:11 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
But, how does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?

So you can't snake the ****ing kitchen sink. You made your point. Whoever told you to do it ****ing misspoke. Get over it.

For the record, NOT ALL kitchen sinks have garbage disposals and ****ing eastern bloc communist plumbing cages hidden in the other drain.

And, WHAT TOOL will spin off a nipple when you only have 1/4" sticking
out?

Don't even try. You will break off the drain pipe behind the wall or below the floor. Open the wall and figure out what's back there.

If it's threaded in you may then be able to collapse the nipple by crushing it with a pair of chan-nel-lock pliers and peel it out of the threads of the main drain stack.

On Apr 1, 11:00*am, wrote:
On Sunday, March 31, 2013 11:38:11 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
But, how does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?

So you can't snake the ****ing kitchen sink. You made your point. Whoever told you to do it ****ing misspoke. Get over it.

For the record, NOT ALL kitchen sinks have garbage disposals and ****ing eastern bloc communist plumbing cages hidden in the other drain.

And, WHAT TOOL will spin off a nipple when you only have 1/4" sticking
out?

Don't even try. You will break off the drain pipe behind the wall or below the floor. Open the wall and figure out what's back there.

If it's threaded in you may then be able to collapse the nipple by crushing it with a pair of chan-nel-lock pliers and peel it out of the threads of the main drain stack.

I look on all this as silly. Just get a new female pipe to screw onto
the nipple sticking out of the wall. LOTS of silicon rubber on the
threads and smeared liberally on the outside of the pipe should be
waterproof. To make sure that none of the silicon rubber gets inside
the pipe, just shove a rag back and forth inside the pipe before the
rubber sets up. Unless someone screws around with the drain again,
the silicone rubbber should work just fine. And, it will make it easy
to reopen if it is ever necessaary.

I bought a Fernco & one of each of all the nipple sizes today:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12570264.jpg

But, neither Home Depot, nor ACE, nor Lowes had nipple extractors
anywhere near the needed size:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12570275.jpg

So, I have the $75 internal pipe wrench on order.

Need to find a time to work on it as things came up today.
Will report back when I get into the kitchen again (not my house,
so, it's not as easily accessed as I'd like).

BTW, it's a royal pain loading up the trunk with the "expected" tools,
as I don't want to get stuck again without the right stuff...
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12570301.jpg

I bought one of those sets that you pictured, to remove part of a broken
nipple from a home heating boiler. That, and a considerable bit of heat from
two mapp torches did the job. After a while.

I sure hope your $75 tool does the job.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"Danny D." wrote in message
...

But, neither Home Depot, nor ACE, nor Lowes had nipple extractors
anywhere near the needed size:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12570275.jpg

So, I have the $75 internal pipe wrench on order.

Need to find a time to work on it as things came up today.
Will report back when I get into the kitchen again (not my house,
so, it's not as easily accessed as I'd like).

That looks like the back of my van. Reminds me, I brought in my bucket of
plumbing tools cause something leaked. Have to put the bucket back into the
van.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"Danny D." wrote in message
...
BTW, it's a royal pain loading up the trunk with the "expected" tools,
as I don't want to get stuck again without the right stuff...
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12570301.jpg

On Apr 1, 9:37*pm, "
wrote:
On Apr 1, 11:00*am, wrote:

On Sunday, March 31, 2013 11:38:11 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
But, how does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?

So you can't snake the ****ing kitchen sink. You made your point. Whoever told you to do it ****ing misspoke. Get over it.

For the record, NOT ALL kitchen sinks have garbage disposals and ****ing eastern bloc communist plumbing cages hidden in the other drain.

And, WHAT TOOL will spin off a nipple when you only have 1/4" sticking
out?

Don't even try. You will break off the drain pipe behind the wall or below the floor. Open the wall and figure out what's back there.

If it's threaded in you may then be able to collapse the nipple by crushing it with a pair of chan-nel-lock pliers and peel it out of the threads of the main drain stack.

I look on all this as silly. *Just get a new female pipe to screw onto
the nipple sticking out of the wall.

Did you miss the part about the pipe being badly
corroded and having no threads left?



*LOTS of silicon rubber on the
threads and smeared liberally on the outside of the pipe should be
waterproof.

Apparently you did and you propose to do a hack job
on it anyway.




To make sure that none of the silicon rubber gets inside
the pipe, just shove a rag back and forth inside the pipe before the
rubber sets up.



Unless someone screws around with the drain again,
the silicone rubbber should work just fine. *And, it will make it easy
to reopen if it is ever necessaary.

Hack job. What's next, bubble gum?

On Apr 2, 8:47*am, "
wrote:
On Apr 1, 9:37*pm, "
wrote:





On Apr 1, 11:00*am, wrote:

On Sunday, March 31, 2013 11:38:11 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
But, how does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?

So you can't snake the ****ing kitchen sink. You made your point. Whoever told you to do it ****ing misspoke. Get over it.

For the record, NOT ALL kitchen sinks have garbage disposals and ****ing eastern bloc communist plumbing cages hidden in the other drain.

And, WHAT TOOL will spin off a nipple when you only have 1/4" sticking
out?

Don't even try. You will break off the drain pipe behind the wall or below the floor. Open the wall and figure out what's back there.

If it's threaded in you may then be able to collapse the nipple by crushing it with a pair of chan-nel-lock pliers and peel it out of the threads of the main drain stack.

I look on all this as silly. *Just get a new female pipe to screw onto
the nipple sticking out of the wall.

Did you miss the part about the pipe being badly
corroded and having no threads left?

*LOTS of silicon rubber on the

threads and smeared liberally on the outside of the pipe should be
waterproof.

Apparently you did and you propose to do a hack job
on it anyway.

To make sure that none of the silicon rubber gets inside

the pipe, just shove a rag back and forth inside the pipe before the
rubber sets up.

Unless someone screws around with the drain again,

the silicone rubbber should work just fine. *And, it will make it easy
to reopen if it is ever necessaary.

Hack job. *What's next, bubble gum?

theres the right way, sometimes it appears harder than the quick hack
repair.

but over the years the right and over time easier repair is often
starting over with quality materials, and only doing the job ONCE

Danny:

Referring to this pictu

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12570264.jpg

I see you've bought 1 1/2 inch nipples in various lengths. I hope you kept the receipt.

Once you get the old rusted nipple out, were you planning to screw one of those nipples in? If so, then are you planning to just slip the Fernco over the threads on the nipple and tightening up the clamp? I'm thinking if the Fernco is gonna be tightened up on those threads, you're likely to leak at those threads.

What you might want to do instead is buy a 1 1/2 inch ABS or PVC "MIP" or "Male Iron Pipe" adapter, also called an "HTA" or Hub Thread Adapeter:

NIBCO | 1-1/2 In. ABS Male Adapter Hub x MIPT | Home Depot Canada

...and a foot or two of 1 1/2 inch ABS pipe.

Cement the thread adapter onto the end of your pipe and screw the pipe into the tee in the wall.

Then dry fit your 1 1/2 inch adjustable p-trap with clean out together and slip that onto your kitchen sink tail piece. Also dry fit a piece of plastic pipe into the outlet end of the p-trap long enough so that you can have 1/2 inch of pipe or so sticking out both ends of the Fernco.

Looking from below, line up the end of the pipe coming out the outlet end of the p-trap with the pipe coming out of the wall and see where to cut that pipe coming out of the wall so there's room for the Fernco between them. Remove the p-trap, remove the pipe, cut it to length, and add an extra 2 or 3 turns of teflon tape on the threads of the adapter. (And, if it wus me, I would take along a set of dental picks and a socket brush for solidering smaller diameter copper pipe to clean out the threads in the tee in the wall as best I can. Maybe bring some CLR acid to dissolve any crap in the threads, too, along with a brush to paint the acid onto those threads. You don't want to muck up the threads of your plastic adapter because there was rust in the threads of the tee you screwd the plastic adapter into.)

Then, cement the trap together making sure that there's a full 3/4 inch of pipe allowed at each plastic socket. Schmear some faucet grease on the outside of the pipeS the Ferco will go around and on the ID of the Fernco.

Grease the OD's of the pipe coming out of the wall and the pipe coming out of the downstream half of the P-trap. Grease the inside of the Fernco. Use faucet grease. Slide the greased Fernco onto the pipe coming out of the wall and slide the downstream half of the p-trap into the Fernco.

Now slide the upstream end of the P-trap onto the tail piece coming off the bottom of the kitchen sink.

Now connect the two halves of the P-trap together. Then tighten the trap adapter nut onto the sink drain tailpiece, and then tighten the clamps on the Fernco. Always tighten the joint between the two halves of the P-trap together first, and then the two ends.

Fill the sink completely with water, pull the sink drain and check for leaks. Put some paper towels under your new plumbing. When you're confident the plumbing isn't leaking, remove the paper towels. The paper towels will make any leaks you didn't initially notice much more visible.

PS:
In this pictu

the homeowner is connecting his p-trap to the tail piece right near the bottom of the tail piece, and that's stupid.

It would be smarter to have the vertical pipe on the p-trap longer so that the seal between the tail piece and the p-trap occurred as high up on the tail piece as possible.

That's because when the kitchen sink drains, air will be compressed in the annular space between the tail piece and the vertical ABS pipe. If it takes 3 minutes for a full kitchen sink to drain, but 3 1/2 minutes for that compressed air to leak out, you still will never have a water leak at the top of the p-trap.

If you have the p-trap connect to the tail piece near the bottom, it'll still take 3 minutes for the sink to drain, but now only 30 seconds for the compressed air to leak out, and you've got the possibility of a leak.

So, it's better practice to have the top of your p-trap as high up on the tail piece as practical so that you have minimize the chances of water leakage.

On Tuesday, April 2, 2013 1:32:36 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
So, I have the $75 internal pipe wrench on order.

That is a colossal waste of a perfectly good $75 for a perfectly useless tool in this case.

You do NOT want to try extracting that nipple with an internal pipe wrench. You are only setting yourself up for an even bigger job as you chase broken drain pipes up and down the wall cavity until you finally give up and call a plumber, which you should've done in the first place.

The nipple is corroded and will crush easily with some big pliers. Once you collapse it it will peel right out leave you a nice undamaged thread for the new nipple.

On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 13:51:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, April 2, 2013 1:32:36 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
So, I have the $75 internal pipe wrench on order.

That is a colossal waste of a perfectly good $75 for a perfectly useless tool in this case.

You do NOT want to try extracting that nipple with an internal pipe wrench. You are only setting yourself up for an even bigger job as you chase broken drain pipes up and down the wall cavity until you finally give up and call a plumber, which you should've done in the first place.

The nipple is corroded and will crush easily with some big pliers. Once you collapse it it will peel right out leave you a nice undamaged thread for the new nipple.

Crazy talk. Even badly rusted 1 1/2" won't "crush easily." Besides,
you don't how far the T is in the wall. So it's the right tool for
removing the stub. But I never recommended that, just answered his
tool question. He never posted pictures. It's possible the exposed
threads can be chased with a die, doped, and work just fine.
There's no real pressure on drains, very little movement of fittings
under a sink, and nothing wrong with a good dose of dope as long as
the threads will take some tightening of the fitting used.
Also proposed using a Fernco on it.
But he went ahead and ordered an expensive tool that he may never use
again. May be rentable too. He's collecting tools and having fun.
I still recommend all of the above before removing the stub, but I
think he'll remove the stub. And that's fine as long as he keeps
having fun. Hope the stub comes out clean.
Might be a good idea to run this in the T after it comes out.
http://www.toolup.com/ridgid_35850_t...npt-e5119.aspx
Oh-oh.

On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:37:24 -0500 Vic Smith wrote:

Even badly rusted 1 1/2" won't "crush easily." Besides,
you don't how far the T is in the wall. So it's the right tool for
removing the stub. But I never recommended that, just answered his
tool question. He never posted pictures.

Hi Vic,

You were wholly correct - the nipple was badly rusted - but even
so, as you predicted, it certainly would not crush easily.

I snapped this picture of my sister's sink, showing WHY it was
impossible to run a snake through the top, without removing
the strainer basket apparatus:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578273.jpg

My Easter temporary repair was badly leaking, so much that
she had placed a bowl but it still allowed the pipes to leak:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578274.jpg

There was a twist fitting at the top of each sink, which was
easy to remove with a pair of curved locking pliers:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578275.jpg

With the two sink compression fittings off, the plumbing just
fell out of the nipple (it was NOT twisted into the nipple!).
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578276.jpg

Applying penetrating oil was probably too little too late, as
it did absolutely nothing - even after banging for 10 minutes,
which only served to loosen up crud which piled up below:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578277.jpg

A closeup shows there was potentially more nipple sticking out
than I at first thought - due to a corroded faceplate:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578280.jpg

The faceplate would not spin off, but it peeled off easily.
Now I could finally see WHAT the nipple was screwed into:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578281.jpg

Applying heat sounds like a good idea, but, in reality, it
was a bad idea as the wood started burning. I couldn't figure
HOW to apply heat to JUST the pipe that the nipple was screwed into!
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578282.jpg

Now it was time to twist the nipple off. I lined up my curved
jaw pliers and my pipe wrenches, and, one by one, they each failed:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578283.jpg

This fancy offset pipe wrench was the worst disappointment of all!
It wouldn't bite in the least, no matter what I tried. It just
kept slipping. I realized at that point that it did NOT have
serrated jaws. The jaws are perfectly smooth. Which is useless!
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578284.jpg

This curved-jaw vise grip also failed its promise. It wouldn't
stay on as I twisted, no matter how hard I clamped it down on
the nipple:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578286.jpg

So, it was back to the basic pipe wrenches! I lined them up,
starting from the smallest to the largest - to try to remove
the recalcitrant nipple:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578287.jpg

The smallest pipe wrench fit and bit beautifully; but lying on
my back, pushing UP with the wrench (it would not fit on the
left side, pushing down), was a dismal failure. Nothing budged.
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578288.jpg

The third pipe wrench size fit perfectly - but again - it would
only fit on the right side, which necessitated lying on my back
and pushing upward to try to spin the 1960s rusted-on nipple off:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578291.jpg

I banged. I pushed. I swore. I banged and pushed s'more. I failed:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578292.jpg

After an hour or more of getting nowhere, I finally decided to
listen to your suggestions and to move on to plan "B", which
was to use the Fernco fitting:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578345.jpg

Of course, the Fernco fitting necessitated cutting off the
female threaded coupling that was supposed to be threaded onto
the male nipple:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578357.jpg

At this point, I belatedly realized that, even with a trunk
chock full of tools, I had forgotten to bring a hacksaw, and,
my sister had no tools that would have done me any good. So,
I fabricated a quick jig out of an angle grinder & some nearby
brick ornamental work - which allowed me to spin the pipe into
the stationary angle grinder - and I was able to sand down the
rough edges on the concrete (which worked surprisingly well!):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578294.jpg

I had only PVC cement with me, so I headed off to the hardware
store to pick up ABC cement, which I used to glue the new
45 degree elbow and straight pipe onto the threaded end of the
P-trap horizontal pipe:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578293.jpg

Finally, I wiggled it all together, and, tested it with a sink
full of water - and while it looks like hell, it didn't leak
anymore (which was the primary constraint). I'm not sure how
long this will last (I really preferred to put a new nipple on),
but, as Oren is fond of saying, "It looks OK from way out here":
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578295.jpg

I DO have some questions - but this post is long enough that
I will put them in a separate post.

On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:37:24 -0500 Vic Smith wrote:

It's possible the exposed threads can be chased with a
die, doped, and work just fine.

In hindsight, chasing the threads is probably the best idea.

But, I did not have a die, and, well, none of the rental
shops I had called yesterday had the internal pipe
wrench so I doubt they'd have a 1.5 inch pipe die.

Out of curiosity, had I bought a pipe die, should it
have been this $275 setup I just found by googling?

RIDGID Pipe Threading Head, 1 1/2 In, RH, Alloy
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/RID...ing-Head-4NV28
Price (ea.) $172.00
Complete Pipe Threading Head, NPT Size 1 1/2 Inches,
Includes Set of RH, Alloy Dies
Grainger Item #4NV28, Model #37410, UNSPSC #27112805

Along with this handle:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/RID...d-Handle-3AFP4
Grainger Item #3AFP4
Price (ea.) $100.95

Which would have cost about $275 ... or is there a cheaper way to
re-thread 1.5 inch steel nipples?

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 01:56:57 +0000 Danny D. wrote:

Q1: How does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?
Q2: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes (with a trap door?)?
Q3: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out?
Q4: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple?

UPDATE & QUESTIONS:

Q: How does one snake a kitchen sink?
A: In general, you don't; however, you 'can' remove the basket from
underneath the sink, and then snake - or - you can open up the
fittings at the P-Trap and snake from there if you want.

Q: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes with a cleanout?
A: The pipes are already as large as can be, although mine were
cheap Home Depot style - so a plumber might use thicker grade pipe.
The cleanout would be nice - but I didn't see any at Home Depot
with the cleanout.

Q: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out?
A: An internal pipe wrench might work - but the problem will STILL be
you need an awfully huge amount of leverage - which you'll likely
just not have. In my case, there actually was enough room to get the
pipe wrench on the nipple, once I peeled off the faceplate, but even
with a pipe wrench, WD-40, and a propane torch, the nipple would not
budge. I doubt the internal pipe wrench will give me any more leverage.

Q: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple?
A: No, but a Fernco fitting will work just fine (and it did).

KEY QUESTION:

Since the proper way to fix this was likely either to chase the threads,
or to replace the nipple, the key related question regarding why I failed
to remove the nipple, is:

Q1: How do you get enough leverage to remove the nipple anyway?

I wouldn't presume the stub is going to crumble easily or come out leaving clean threads behind. If it wuz me, I would try heating the tee with an acetylene torch or at least a propane torch burning MAPP gas and try to expand the tee so it breaks free of the stub. That'll make twisting the stub out easier.

And, I'd try to rent an internal pipe wrench and a 1 1/2 inch NPT tap before I bought either one. With lots of DIY'ers running into the same kinds of problem as Danny with iron piping in their homes, I expect finding a place that rents those tools wouldn't be hard.

I wouldn't presume the stub is going to crumble easily or come out leaving clean threads behind. If it wuz me, I would try heating the tee with an acetylene torch or at least a propane torch burning MAPP gas and try to expand the tee so it breaks free of the stub. That'll make twisting the stub out easier.

And, I'd try to rent an internal pipe wrench and a 1 1/2 inch NPT tap before I bought either one. With lots of DIY'ers running into the same kinds of problem as Danny with iron piping in their homes, I expect finding a place that rents those tools wouldn't be hard.

But, as always, the thing that confounds you is that the rental rates on special tools like that are nearly half the cost of buying the da%#*mn thing, so if you ever need it again, you're kicking yourself for not having purchased one the first time.

I expect any pump repair shop would have those tools because a 1 1/2 inch NPT thread is a common pump inlet and outlet size, so pump repair shops would need those same tools for doing exactly the same kinda thing as Danny does.

On Apr 2, 10:09*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 01:56:57 +0000 Danny D. wrote:

Q1: How does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?
Q2: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes (with a trap door?)?
Q3: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out?
Q4: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple?

UPDATE & QUESTIONS:

Q: How does one snake a kitchen sink?
A: In general, you don't; however, you 'can' remove the basket from
* *underneath the sink, and then snake - or - you can open up the
* *fittings at the P-Trap and snake from there if you want.

Q: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes with a cleanout?
A: The pipes are already as large as can be, although mine were
* *cheap Home Depot style - so a plumber might use thicker grade pipe..
* *The cleanout would be nice - but I didn't see any at Home Depot
* *with the cleanout.

Q: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out?
A: An internal pipe wrench might work - but the problem will STILL be
* *you need an awfully huge amount of leverage - which you'll likely
* *just not have. In my case, there actually was enough room to get the
* *pipe wrench on the nipple, once I peeled off the faceplate, but even
* *with a pipe wrench, WD-40, and a propane torch, the nipple would not
* *budge. I doubt the internal pipe wrench will give me any more leverage.

Q: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple?
A: No, but a Fernco fitting will work just fine (and it did).

KEY QUESTION:

Since the proper way to fix this was likely either to chase the threads,
or to replace the nipple, the key related question regarding why I failed
to remove the nipple, is:

Q1: How do you get enough leverage to remove the nipple anyway?

You have no idea what you are doing, not even mastery of the basic
vocabulary ....

You ask nonsensical questions, sometimes you answer them yourself but
often incorrectly.
You make false assumptions & arrival at illogical conclusions.

You seem as though you MIGHT be learning some things but it's hard to
tell.

You do take good photos, even if the descriptions & techniques make no
sense.
You post them to A.H.R as if they represent great discoveries....
interesting indeed.

You post so many questions perhaps a unique numbering system is in
order.

You may not be very experienced or knowledgeable but you sure are
persistent.
Must fall under the heading of "too stupid to know that you don't
know".

yeah, I think there's a biblical thing about that.

Suggestion.. research & read about your repairs
post less, read more, you'll learn quicker

Hint: You're asking the wrong questions.

On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 05:09:42 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 01:56:57 +0000 Danny D. wrote:

Q1: How does one SNAKE a kitchen sink?
Q2: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes (with a trap door?)?
Q3: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out?
Q4: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple?

UPDATE & QUESTIONS:

Q: How does one snake a kitchen sink?
A: In general, you don't; however, you 'can' remove the basket from
underneath the sink, and then snake - or - you can open up the
fittings at the P-Trap and snake from there if you want.

Q: Do you suggest larger-diameter plastic "J" pipes with a cleanout?
A: The pipes are already as large as can be, although mine were
cheap Home Depot style - so a plumber might use thicker grade pipe.
The cleanout would be nice - but I didn't see any at Home Depot
with the cleanout.


That's good. It's just another joint to leak or fail. Removing the
P-trap is child's play, and when you're there you can get a snake into
the stub and waste line. Despite you sister's experience with
eggshells in the trap, most stoppages I've seen are in that stub or
below at a turn. See the sludge in there? Probably the most
horizontal waste pipe in the house.

Q: What TOOL spins off a 1.5" diameter nipple when only 1/4" sticks out?
A: An internal pipe wrench might work - but the problem will STILL be
you need an awfully huge amount of leverage - which you'll likely
just not have. In my case, there actually was enough room to get the
pipe wrench on the nipple, once I peeled off the faceplate, but even
with a pipe wrench, WD-40, and a propane torch, the nipple would not
budge. I doubt the internal pipe wrench will give me any more leverage.

Q: Can a compression fitting attach to the corroded 1/4" steel nipple?
A: No, but a Fernco fitting will work just fine (and it did).


They call all fittings with plastic/nylon washers compression fittings
now, because they call the connecting nut a compression nut and it
compresses the washer to make a seal.
So I don't think that term is reserved for tubing.

KEY QUESTION:

Since the proper way to fix this was likely either to chase the threads,
or to replace the nipple, the key related question regarding why I failed
to remove the nipple, is:

Q1: How do you get enough leverage to remove the nipple anyway?

Strength mainly. If you could get under the cabinet floor to put some
blocks there to brace the floor, you could use a jack on the wrench.
Discretion needed Don't want to break anything.
Since you won't be reusing the threads hitting the stub head-on with a
hammer repeatedly can help break up the dope or rust keeping it frozen
in.. Again, discretion needed. If it's really a cast iron T don't
hammer. All I've seen is steel pipe/T's for sink lines.
If the T shows movement, don't hammer.
And there's always the danger of causing one of the other T joints to
leak even just wrenching unless you can get an opposing wrench on the
T, which you can't do without opening the wall.
I recommend just staying with the Fernco.

On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 04:54:49 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:37:24 -0500 Vic Smith wrote:

It's possible the exposed threads can be chased with a
die, doped, and work just fine.

In hindsight, chasing the threads is probably the best idea.

But, I did not have a die, and, well, none of the rental
shops I had called yesterday had the internal pipe
wrench so I doubt they'd have a 1.5 inch pipe die.

Out of curiosity, had I bought a pipe die, should it
have been this $275 setup I just found by googling?

RIDGID Pipe Threading Head, 1 1/2 In, RH, Alloy
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/RID...ing-Head-4NV28
Price (ea.) $172.00
Complete Pipe Threading Head, NPT Size 1 1/2 Inches,
Includes Set of RH, Alloy Dies
Grainger Item #4NV28, Model #37410, UNSPSC #27112805

Along with this handle:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/RID...d-Handle-3AFP4
Grainger Item #3AFP4
Price (ea.) $100.95

Which would have cost about $275 ... or is there a cheaper way to
re-thread 1.5 inch steel nipples?

That's about it. For the smaller sizes, up to 3/4" you could a solid
hex die for maybe 20 bucks. But 1 1/2" is big bucks.
Unless you're doing a lot of threading, IOW it's your job, forget
about buying pipe threading tools. See if you can rent or borrow.
It would be much cheaper to have a plumber come in than what you'll
end up paying for dies.
Plug "pipe die' into eBay for an idea of the different types.
I re-piped my last house about 30 years ago using a non-ratcheting
Rigid set that I borrowed from my uncle. I remember pricing them then
and they were expensive. Still are.
But that was all 1/2" and 3/4" and I don't remember how big that set
went. Did bigger pipe on a thread cutting machine in the steel mills.
Don't remember how big those went either. I might re-pipe the
galvanized steel pipe in this house but will look into PEX first.
If I go with galvanized I'll buy a cheap kit, You can get them for 50
bucks for 1/2' and 3/4" Not many cuts, and if it threads maybe 20
ends before the dies wear out, that's enough.
I did notice this set on eBay that has 1 1/2".
http://tinyurl.com/cyhhbdg
Don't think it's worth paying 50 bucks for one time use when your
Fernco is doing the job.
..

On Apr 3, 12:35*am, "Danny D." wrote:
On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:37:24 -0500 Vic Smith wrote:

Even badly rusted 1 1/2" won't "crush easily." *Besides,
you don't how far the T is in the wall. *So it's the right tool for
removing the stub. *But I never recommended that, just answered his
tool question. *He never posted pictures.

Hi Vic,

You were wholly correct - the nipple was badly rusted - but even
so, as you predicted, it certainly would not crush easily.

I snapped this picture of my sister's sink, showing WHY it was
impossible to run a snake through the top, without removing
the strainer basket apparatus:
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578273.jpg

My Easter temporary repair was badly leaking, so much that
she had placed a bowl but it still allowed the pipes to leak:
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578274.jpg

There was a twist fitting at the top of each sink, which was
easy to remove with a pair of curved locking pliers:
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578275.jpg

With the two sink compression fittings off, the plumbing just
fell out of the nipple (it was NOT twisted into the nipple!).
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578276.jpg

Applying penetrating oil was probably too little too late, as
it did absolutely nothing - even after banging for 10 minutes,
which only served to loosen up crud which piled up below:
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578277.jpg

A closeup shows there was potentially more nipple sticking out
than I at first thought - due to a corroded faceplate:
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578280.jpg

The faceplate would not spin off, but it peeled off easily.
Now I could finally see WHAT the nipple was screwed into:
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578281.jpg

Applying heat sounds like a good idea, but, in reality, it
was a bad idea as the wood started burning. I couldn't figure
HOW to apply heat to JUST the pipe that the nipple was screwed into!
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578282.jpg

Now it was time to twist the nipple off. I lined up my curved
jaw pliers and my pipe wrenches, and, one by one, they each failed:
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578283.jpg

This fancy offset pipe wrench was the worst disappointment of all!
It wouldn't bite in the least, no matter what I tried. It just
kept slipping. I realized at that point that it did NOT have
serrated jaws. The jaws are perfectly smooth. Which is useless!
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578284.jpg

This curved-jaw vise grip also failed its promise. It wouldn't
stay on as I twisted, no matter how hard I clamped it down on
the nipple:
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578286.jpg

So, it was back to the basic pipe wrenches! I lined them up,
starting from the smallest to the largest - to try to remove
the recalcitrant nipple:
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578287.jpg

The smallest pipe wrench fit and bit beautifully; but lying on
my back, pushing UP with the wrench (it would not fit on the
left side, pushing down), was a dismal failure. Nothing budged.
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578288.jpg

The third pipe wrench size fit perfectly - but again - it would
only fit on the right side, which necessitated lying on my back
and pushing upward to try to spin the 1960s rusted-on nipple off:
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578291.jpg

I banged. I pushed. I swore. I banged and pushed s'more. I failed:
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578292.jpg

After an hour or more of getting nowhere, I finally decided to
listen to your suggestions and to move on to plan "B", which
was to use the Fernco fitting:
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578345.jpg

Of course, the Fernco fitting necessitated cutting off the
female threaded coupling that was supposed to be threaded onto
the male nipple:
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578357.jpg

At this point, I belatedly realized that, even with a trunk
chock full of tools, I had forgotten to bring a hacksaw, and,
my sister had no tools that would have done me any good. So,
I fabricated a quick jig out of an angle grinder & some nearby
brick ornamental work - which allowed me to spin the pipe into
the stationary angle grinder - and I was able to sand down the
rough edges on the concrete (which worked surprisingly well!):
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578294.jpg

I had only PVC cement with me, so I headed off to the hardware
store to pick up ABC cement, which I used to glue the new
45 degree elbow and straight pipe onto the threaded end of the
P-trap horizontal pipe:
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578293.jpg

Finally, I wiggled it all together, and, tested it with a sink
full of water - and while it looks like hell, it didn't leak
anymore (which was the primary constraint). I'm not sure how
long this will last (I really preferred to put a new nipple on),
but, as Oren is fond of saying, "It looks OK from way out here":
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578295.jpg

I DO have some questions - but this post is long enough that
I will put them in a separate post.

Looks like you did a good job to me.

On Apr 3, 8:38*am, "
wrote:
On Apr 3, 12:35*am, "Danny D." wrote:





On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:37:24 -0500 Vic Smith wrote:

Even badly rusted 1 1/2" won't "crush easily." *Besides,
you don't how far the T is in the wall. *So it's the right tool for
removing the stub. *But I never recommended that, just answered his
tool question. *He never posted pictures.

Hi Vic,

You were wholly correct - the nipple was badly rusted - but even
so, as you predicted, it certainly would not crush easily.

I snapped this picture of my sister's sink, showing WHY it was
impossible to run a snake through the top, without removing
the strainer basket apparatus:
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578273.jpg

My Easter temporary repair was badly leaking, so much that
she had placed a bowl but it still allowed the pipes to leak:
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578274.jpg

There was a twist fitting at the top of each sink, which was
easy to remove with a pair of curved locking pliers:
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578275.jpg

With the two sink compression fittings off, the plumbing just
fell out of the nipple (it was NOT twisted into the nipple!).
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578276.jpg

Applying penetrating oil was probably too little too late, as
it did absolutely nothing - even after banging for 10 minutes,
which only served to loosen up crud which piled up below:
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578277.jpg

A closeup shows there was potentially more nipple sticking out
than I at first thought - due to a corroded faceplate:
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578280.jpg

The faceplate would not spin off, but it peeled off easily.
Now I could finally see WHAT the nipple was screwed into:
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578281.jpg

Applying heat sounds like a good idea, but, in reality, it
was a bad idea as the wood started burning. I couldn't figure
HOW to apply heat to JUST the pipe that the nipple was screwed into!
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578282.jpg

Now it was time to twist the nipple off. I lined up my curved
jaw pliers and my pipe wrenches, and, one by one, they each failed:
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578283.jpg

This fancy offset pipe wrench was the worst disappointment of all!
It wouldn't bite in the least, no matter what I tried. It just
kept slipping. I realized at that point that it did NOT have
serrated jaws. The jaws are perfectly smooth. Which is useless!
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578284.jpg

This curved-jaw vise grip also failed its promise. It wouldn't
stay on as I twisted, no matter how hard I clamped it down on
the nipple:
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578286.jpg

So, it was back to the basic pipe wrenches! I lined them up,
starting from the smallest to the largest - to try to remove
the recalcitrant nipple:
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578287.jpg

The smallest pipe wrench fit and bit beautifully; but lying on
my back, pushing UP with the wrench (it would not fit on the
left side, pushing down), was a dismal failure. Nothing budged.
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578288.jpg

The third pipe wrench size fit perfectly - but again - it would
only fit on the right side, which necessitated lying on my back
and pushing upward to try to spin the 1960s rusted-on nipple off:
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578291.jpg

I banged. I pushed. I swore. I banged and pushed s'more. I failed:
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578292.jpg

After an hour or more of getting nowhere, I finally decided to
listen to your suggestions and to move on to plan "B", which
was to use the Fernco fitting:
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578345.jpg

Of course, the Fernco fitting necessitated cutting off the
female threaded coupling that was supposed to be threaded onto
the male nipple:
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578357.jpg

At this point, I belatedly realized that, even with a trunk
chock full of tools, I had forgotten to bring a hacksaw, and,
my sister had no tools that would have done me any good. So,
I fabricated a quick jig out of an angle grinder & some nearby
brick ornamental work - which allowed me to spin the pipe into
the stationary angle grinder - and I was able to sand down the
rough edges on the concrete (which worked surprisingly well!):
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578294.jpg

I had only PVC cement with me, so I headed off to the hardware
store to pick up ABC cement, which I used to glue the new
45 degree elbow and straight pipe onto the threaded end of the
P-trap horizontal pipe:
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578293.jpg

Finally, I wiggled it all together, and, tested it with a sink
full of water - and while it looks like hell, it didn't leak
anymore (which was the primary constraint). I'm not sure how
long this will last (I really preferred to put a new nipple on),
but, as Oren is fond of saying, "It looks OK from way out here":
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12578295.jpg

I DO have some questions - but this post is long enough that
I will put them in a separate post.

Looks like you did a good job to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, except maybe for:

1 - Does that trap have nut fittings on both sides so
that it's removable?

2 - If not, is there a cleanout in the bottom?

On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 05:40:12 -0700 wrote:

1 - Does that trap have nut fittings on both sides so
that it's removable?

2 - If not, is there a cleanout in the bottom?

No & No.

I didn't change the P-trap pipe, as I was afraid of
changing the geometry too much (I'm inexperienced).

You might notice that even slicing off only 2 inches of
pipe changed the geometry enough that it's not really
a perfectly straight shot into the Fernco.

Here's a full-size picture showing a slight bulge
at the Fernco itself:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12581091.jpg

My lesson learned was that, in addition to pipe & PVC
cement, I was cursing myself in that I should have bought
a few elbows of various angles instead of just the one 45°
elbow because just slicing off a tiny bit changed the geometry
alone.

Meanwhile, my sister was asking me why it was taking so
long to simply remove the nipple ... (she always thinks
I take too long to do any job).

On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 06:05:42 -0500 Vic Smith wrote:

Don't think it's worth paying 50 bucks for one time use
when your Fernco is doing the job.

Thanks. Services out here (Silicon Valley) are expensive,
so, I generally can get the job done for parts and tools
that equal a service call (which I would call a win because
I get to keep both the tools and knowledge gleaned).

One question I have.

Here is a large-format picture of the fitting:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12581170.jpg

WHAT is the nipple threaded into?
Is that a cast-iron fitting? Or galvanized?

On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 23:45:29 -0700 DD_BobK wrote:

Must fall under the heading of "too stupid to know that
you don't know".

I do a lot of amateur repairs but I only post when I'm
clueless at the start of the job - so I apologize if
what I post is all known to you already.

Since you're knowledgeable in this, may I ask YOU how
you would have obtained the leverage to spin that
corroded nipple off with just the tools I had at hand?

On Tuesday, April 2, 2013 6:37:24 PM UTC-4, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 13:51:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The nipple is corroded and will crush easily with some big pliers. Once you collapse it it will peel right out leave you a nice undamaged thread for the new nipple.

Crazy talk. Even badly rusted 1 1/2" won't "crush easily." Besides,

you don't how far the T is in the wall.

I can go to Home Depot right now and take a piece of brand new 1-1/2" chrome-plated metal drain tubing and crush it easily with a pair of Cha-nel-lock pliers.

We're not talking about galvanized pipe here we're talking about light-gauge drain tubing.