On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:01:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 1/27/2013 12:44 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 02:36:47 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 21:29:49 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 18:20:39 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 18:02:56 -0600, wrote:

I had to remove my car's radiator to get it repaired. That may take
several days to a week, since the repair shop is real busy. I want to
move the car to a differerent place on the property. It will take 5
minutes at most to start it and move it. Is it safe to run an engine
without coolant for a short time like this? It's an 80's car with 6 cyl
engine if that matters. I dont think it can get real hot in that amount
of time, but I thought I'd ask. I'm handy with cars, but no mechanic.


I wouldn't do it. Might have no use for the repaired radiator.
Leave it, or find another way to move it.
I would not run it f minutes. But you can easily make a "short
circuit pipe" to fit between the rad hoses, fill it with coolant, move
it and drain it.

Now that is a great idea.
I probably have a pipe for that too.
Sometimes posting on here is well worth it.

Thanks!
A bit of PVC and a pair of elbows works fine. Don't even need to glue
it together - just a wrap of tape to hold it together. Put the pipe in
the lower hose, fill from top of pipe, pop the top hose on, and start
it up.

That said -

My daughter's '82 Colt 200 blew the rad one cold and nasty night about
10 miles from home. I went out with 2 gallons of water and tried to
fill the rad. Water ran out as fast as I could pour it in. I gave my
daughter the keys to my car and told her to follow me. I started the
colt, took it up to 100kph and shut it off, letting it coast. When it
got down to about 30 or 40 I turned on the ignition, popped the
clutch, and took it up to 100 again, then coasted it down. Took 3 or 4
cycles to get it home to my driveway - where we put in a new rad the
next day. No harm done to the engine


I remember Cadillac advertizing from some time back that their engine
control system would allow the vehicle to run in limp home mode without
coolant in the engine's cooling system. Of course I recall top fuel
dragsters run without a cooling system at all but they rebuild the
engine after every run or two. ^_^

TDD
And they fill the coolant passages with solid heat absorbing material.

On Jan 26, 6:02*pm, wrote:
I had to remove my car's radiator to get it repaired. *That may take
several days to a week, since the repair shop is real busy. *I want to
move the car to a differerent place on the property. *It will take 5
minutes at most to start it and move it. *Is it safe to run an engine
without coolant for a short time like this? *It's an 80's car with 6 cyl
engine if that matters. *I dont think it can get real hot in that amount
of time, but I thought I'd ask. *I'm handy with cars, but no mechanic.

Connect the two open hose ends together after filling as much water as
possible, use several wraps of duct tape to hold them together. Then
go for it, just keep an eye on the temp gauge that it doesn't go up
much past the midrange and you're fine.

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:59:17 -0500, wrote:

I remember Cadillac advertizing from some time back that their engine
control system would allow the vehicle to run in limp home mode without
coolant in the engine's cooling system. Of course I recall top fuel
dragsters run without a cooling system at all but they rebuild the
engine after every run or two. ^_^

TDD
And they fill the coolant passages with solid heat absorbing material.

What the heck would a "solid heat absorbing material" be?

Cadillac has a special V8 engine that shuts off 4 cylinders for the limp
home mode. I just read about that recently. I forget what they call
the engine, but it seems they are very costly and hard to repair.

What I wish is that all the fuel injected vehicles would have a second
fuel pump to get people home. So many of those in-tank pumps fail
leaving the driver stranded. That happened to me about 7 years ago, it
was a bitter cold night, around 20 below zero. I was out in the country
about 6 miles from home and nearly froze to death. That was before I
owned a cellphone. I probably would have frozen but halfway home I
found a barn filled with cattle, and it was fairly warm in there. I
stayed in the barn till I was warm, then walked the rest of the way
home, barely making it. After that was when I got a pre-paid cellphone
just for emergencies.

The older cars were more likely to limp a person home than these new
ones. Those fuel pumps seem to be a major flaw on the newer cars too.
When they die, it's all over. Start walking! The old mechanical fuel
pumps usually gave a warning and would still limp a person home most of
the time, not to mention they could be changed on the shoulder of a road
in a half hour or less. What they call "progress" these days is not
always true.

By the way, I dont know much about dragsters, but I've been to many
demolition derbys and am amazed how long most of those engines run with
no coolant after a radiator is blown. Of course they are all headed to
the scrap yard anyhow once the show is over.

On 1/28/2013 2:13 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:59:17 -0500, wrote:

I remember Cadillac advertizing from some time back that their engine
control system would allow the vehicle to run in limp home mode without
coolant in the engine's cooling system. Of course I recall top fuel
dragsters run without a cooling system at all but they rebuild the
engine after every run or two. ^_^

TDD
And they fill the coolant passages with solid heat absorbing material.

What the heck would a "solid heat absorbing material" be?

Cadillac has a special V8 engine that shuts off 4 cylinders for the limp
home mode. I just read about that recently. I forget what they call
the engine, but it seems they are very costly and hard to repair.

What I wish is that all the fuel injected vehicles would have a second
fuel pump to get people home. So many of those in-tank pumps fail
leaving the driver stranded. That happened to me about 7 years ago, it
was a bitter cold night, around 20 below zero. I was out in the country
about 6 miles from home and nearly froze to death. That was before I
owned a cellphone. I probably would have frozen but halfway home I
found a barn filled with cattle, and it was fairly warm in there. I
stayed in the barn till I was warm, then walked the rest of the way
home, barely making it. After that was when I got a pre-paid cellphone
just for emergencies.

The older cars were more likely to limp a person home than these new
ones. Those fuel pumps seem to be a major flaw on the newer cars too.
When they die, it's all over. Start walking! The old mechanical fuel
pumps usually gave a warning and would still limp a person home most of
the time, not to mention they could be changed on the shoulder of a road
in a half hour or less. What they call "progress" these days is not
always true.

By the way, I dont know much about dragsters, but I've been to many
demolition derbys and am amazed how long most of those engines run with
no coolant after a radiator is blown. Of course they are all headed to
the scrap yard anyhow once the show is over.


Cadillac Northstar Engine. ^_^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northstar_engine_series

TDD

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:40:17 -0500, Frank
wrote:

On 1/26/2013 9:45 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:


wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 20:15:00 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 16:44:49 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 26, 7:32 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 18:02:56 -0600, wrote:
I had to remove my car's radiator to get it repaired. That may take
several days to a week, since the repair shop is real busy. I
want to
move the car to a differerent place on the property. It will take 5
minutes at most to start it and move it. Is it safe to run an engine
without coolant for a short time like this? It's an 80's car with
6 cyl
engine if that matters. I dont think it can get real hot in that
amount
of time, but I thought I'd ask. I'm handy with cars, but no
mechanic.

Yet another troll from HomoGay.

Yeah, sure looks like it. 5 mins to move it on his property?
In 5 mins you could go 2.5 miles at 15mph.

Hey dickhead, I'm sure I'm not the first person who has had to wait for
auto parts and needed to move a vehicle. I'm asking a serious question.
I do not have another way to move it. It's assholes like you that ruin
newsgroups. just went into my kill file.

He's been in mine (and a lot more) a LOOONG time.

Hi,
Oil also cools engine. But I don't know how long the oil alone can keep
the temp in safe range.

I'm not reading everything in thread, but water could function as
temporary coolant, drained and disposed of. What's the big deal? I'm
old enough to remember when just water was used in warm months and
methanol added as antifreeze in the winter.

If this was warm weather I could fill a can with water, tie it to the
hood, and have a hose running it thru the engine. But its been around
zero and below lately, which is what damaged the radiator in the first
place. It seems the antifreeze was too weak and it partly froze.

But at the same time this cold weather will keep the engine cool longer
to move the car. I'm probably just going to run it, one minute at a
time to move it. 5 minutes was probably longer than it will really take
anyhow. I'm only going about 1/2 mile, to move it from blocking a
needed farm roadway to the garage. Had they been able to fix the
radiator right away, I was going to just finish the job that same day.
It only takes a half hour to install it. But right now we cant get to
part of the farm to care for the animals without driving all the way
around and thru a crop field. No fun in the cold!

However tomorrow I'm gonna call a junk yard and see if they got a cheap
used radiator. Never hurts to have a spare. This stuff always breaks
down right before a weekend when everything is closed.

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:34:21 -0500, wrote:

Without coolant the guage will in all likelihood never go up - or the
light come on. Bothe measure COOLANT temperature, not engine
temperature. No coolant, no indication.

Yes, this is correct. The sensor goes right into the coolant. The last
time I changed a sensor, I had to drain the coolant first, or it would
have spilled all over the place.

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:50:16 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:45:45 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@
4ax.com:


2 minutes would likely be safe. 5 would definitely be pushing your
luck.




Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad
being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a
complete system.

Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds
in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding
metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the
head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.


Are you a mechanic???
I am. 30 seconds will not hurt ANYTHING. Period. The thermal mass is
highe enough to take a minute of no or light load running without harm
- even on a lightweight aluminum engine. - in most cases significantly
longer.

The Ccadillac Northstar can be driven 50 miles with absolutely no
coolant, without harm - and it is a FRAGILE engine. They do it by
rotating shutdown of cyls and reducing power output.

I would not run a dry engine for 5 minutes - but I have posted a
solution that works very well and is totally safe for a 5 minute run.
- short circuit pipe..

That's the Cadillac engine I mentioned in another post.

This whole thing does have me asking how it is that air cooled engines
survive as long as they do? Particularly the larger ones on garden
tractors, skid steers, etc?
Yea, I know they have cooling fins, but hey, people use them all the
time when the outdoor summer temperature is in the 90s, and the air is
still. Often they are just sitting at idle. How can they be getting
cooled properly? Yet they seem to last a long time in most cases. Those
find cant be doing much when there is no air movement, and usually no
fan either....

Are they built from stronger metals than a car engine?

In article ,
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:50:16 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:45:45 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@
4ax.com:


2 minutes would likely be safe. 5 would definitely be pushing your
luck.




Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad
being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a
complete system.

Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds
in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding
metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the
head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.


Are you a mechanic???
I am. 30 seconds will not hurt ANYTHING. Period. The thermal mass is
highe enough to take a minute of no or light load running without harm
- even on a lightweight aluminum engine. - in most cases significantly
longer.

The Ccadillac Northstar can be driven 50 miles with absolutely no
coolant, without harm - and it is a FRAGILE engine. They do it by
rotating shutdown of cyls and reducing power output.

I would not run a dry engine for 5 minutes - but I have posted a
solution that works very well and is totally safe for a 5 minute run.
- short circuit pipe..

That's the Cadillac engine I mentioned in another post.

This whole thing does have me asking how it is that air cooled engines
survive as long as they do? Particularly the larger ones on garden
tractors, skid steers, etc?
Yea, I know they have cooling fins, but hey, people use them all the
time when the outdoor summer temperature is in the 90s, and the air is
still. Often they are just sitting at idle. How can they be getting
cooled properly? Yet they seem to last a long time in most cases. Those
find cant be doing much when there is no air movement, and usually no
fan either....

Are they built from stronger metals than a car engine?

Air cooled engines are very hot running in comparison to liquid cooled
engines. They also have to be built to much looser tolerances.

Small air cooled engines like lawn mowers & garden tractors do in fact
have cooling fans... they're integral with the flywheel assembly. They
also almost always employ baffles to force cooling air penetration deep
through the fins. They're always run quite rich to further assist
in cooling as well. (All that unburned fuel carries amazing amounts of
heat away through the exhaust; however this takes a big toll on
efficiency and emissions).[1]

Air cooled aircraft engines also use baffles for the same reason, and
larger ones include 'cowl flaps' to afford some temperature control... and
to mitigate decent overcooling (or 'shock cooling' as they call it). As
the fuel/air mixture is pilot adjustable, these engines are always run
dead rich on the ground and in climb configuration to assist in cooling,
and manually leaned once in cruise to increase efficiency.

Air cooled motorcycles take a beating... they usually have no fan/s or
baffles and can/will really overheat if left idle for long periods, or
ridden slowly downwind long distances with little/no airspeed. Don't
know for sure, but I'm reasonably sure they're normally jetted rich
for the above reasons. (Have heard modern fuel injected motorcycle
computers have some temperature regulation ability through air/fuel
mixture control.)

Erik

[1] This is a major reason you see few (or no) air cooled engines on
newer cars... it's extremely difficult to make them emission compliant.)

On Jan 27, 7:13*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:15:13 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 27, 3:37*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:45:45 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@
4ax.com:

*2 minutes would likely be safe. 5 would definitely be pushing your
luck.

Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad
being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a
complete system.

Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds
in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding
metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the
head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.

I don't know but my hunch is you are correct. *That said since this
newsgroup seems indecisive about exact amount of time (understandable
IMO), I think he is well advised not to take a chance because I
think?? he has more to lose than to gain. *Of course ultimately he
will make that decision. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm sure all the deep knowledge you've demonstrated
about the actual topic will be of great comfort to him on
his 5 minute journey.

Yeah ok.
Now I understand why some put you in their kill file.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually, CL who just claimed he had me kill-filed, just replied to
one of my posts. If he can't figure out how to do it,
I seriously doubt you can.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:13:45 -0600, wrote:


The older cars were more likely to limp a person home than these new
ones. Those fuel pumps seem to be a major flaw on the newer cars too.
When they die, it's all over. Start walking! The old mechanical fuel
pumps usually gave a warning and would still limp a person home most of
the time, not to mention they could be changed on the shoulder of a road
in a half hour or less. What they call "progress" these days is not
always true.


My experience is different. A mechanical pump stranded me by failing
without warning. I replaced 2 electric in-tank pumps after they gave
fair warning by hard starting or fuel starvation at speed.
I don't like in-tank pumps because they're expensive as hell and PITA
to change. A couple hours even if it goes smoothly versus 10 minutes
for a mech pump.
Just my experience.
If your'e on a farm, you should have a chain to pull that car where
you want. Hell, I kept one in my F-100 in Chicago, and pulled cars
with it.

On 1/28/2013 8:38 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:13:45 -0600, wrote:


The older cars were more likely to limp a person home than these new
ones. Those fuel pumps seem to be a major flaw on the newer cars too.
When they die, it's all over. Start walking! The old mechanical fuel
pumps usually gave a warning and would still limp a person home most of
the time, not to mention they could be changed on the shoulder of a road
in a half hour or less. What they call "progress" these days is not
always true.


My experience is different. A mechanical pump stranded me by failing
without warning. I replaced 2 electric in-tank pumps after they gave
fair warning by hard starting or fuel starvation at speed.
I don't like in-tank pumps because they're expensive as hell and PITA
to change. A couple hours even if it goes smoothly versus 10 minutes
for a mech pump.
Just my experience.
If your'e on a farm, you should have a chain to pull that car where
you want. Hell, I kept one in my F-100 in Chicago, and pulled cars
with it.



i recently did my 96 vette fuel pump. pull the gas cap, a rubber shroud,
and the top of the tank is right there. 6 bolts, pull up on a steel rod,
and it's in your hand. 10 minutes tops. of course, it did strand me 150
miles from home, so that was a pain.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 08:55:44 -0700, chaniarts
wrote:


i recently did my 96 vette fuel pump. pull the gas cap, a rubber shroud,
and the top of the tank is right there. 6 bolts, pull up on a steel rod,
and it's in your hand. 10 minutes tops. of course, it did strand me 150
miles from home, so that was a pain.


That's a handy design. I was busy with work so had my mechanic
replace the one on my '88 Celebrity. 2.8. It did strand me briefly.
Had to let the pump cool off. It ran fine about 15 miles to the mech.
He couldn't believe I got there because it was only putting out 2-3
psi. Tank had to be dropped. Think it cost me $4-5 bills.
My daughter's '93 Grand Am 3.3 would stall with the tank less than 1/4
full when the gas sloshed. I did that myself. About 3 hours work, no
lift, but the pump was about $250.
Just put a new tank in my '97 Lumina because it was holed with rust.
About 3 hours, no lift. Put the old pump back in with a new sock.
The pump is near $300 so I'm not about to replace it when it's working
fine.
Some vehicles, like your Vette, have access to the pump with just a
little work. Most you have to drop the tank. The tank in the Grand
Am and Lumina don't even sit under the trunk, as you might think
because of filler location. They're strapped up under the rear seat.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:36:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 27, 7:13*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:15:13 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 27, 3:37*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:45:45 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@
4ax.com:

*2 minutes would likely be safe. 5 would definitely be pushing your
luck.

Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad
being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a
complete system.

Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds
in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding
metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the
head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.

I don't know but my hunch is you are correct. *That said since this
newsgroup seems indecisive about exact amount of time (understandable
IMO), I think he is well advised not to take a chance because I
think?? he has more to lose than to gain. *Of course ultimately he
will make that decision. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm sure all the deep knowledge you've demonstrated
about the actual topic will be of great comfort to him on
his 5 minute journey.

Yeah ok.
Now I understand why some put you in their kill file.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually, CL who just claimed he had me kill-filed, just replied to
one of my posts. If he can't figure out how to do it,
I seriously doubt you can.


First off, I didn't say I would. Second, you're beginning to sound
like an idiot who deserves it. Third, with my reader, I found kill
files not as good as I had hoped years ago.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:13:45 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:59:17 -0500, wrote:

I remember Cadillac advertizing from some time back that their engine
control system would allow the vehicle to run in limp home mode without
coolant in the engine's cooling system. Of course I recall top fuel
dragsters run without a cooling system at all but they rebuild the
engine after every run or two. ^_^

TDD
And they fill the coolant passages with solid heat absorbing material.

What the heck would a "solid heat absorbing material" be?

Hard Blok engine filler from Summit Racing is one.

Moroso makes one as well - and then there is GE Blockguard.

Hard Blok appears to be an iron filled epoxy (at least it is a 2
component product)

Cadillac has a special V8 engine that shuts off 4 cylinders for the limp
home mode. I just read about that recently. I forget what they call
the engine, but it seems they are very costly and hard to repair.

Like I said before, it is called a Northstar -and it's a lot more
complex than just shutting off 4 cyls for limp home.

What I wish is that all the fuel injected vehicles would have a second
fuel pump to get people home. So many of those in-tank pumps fail
leaving the driver stranded. That happened to me about 7 years ago, it
was a bitter cold night, around 20 below zero. I was out in the country
about 6 miles from home and nearly froze to death. That was before I
owned a cellphone. I probably would have frozen but halfway home I
found a barn filled with cattle, and it was fairly warm in there. I
stayed in the barn till I was warm, then walked the rest of the way
home, barely making it. After that was when I got a pre-paid cellphone
just for emergencies.

A second fuel pump is just twice as much to go wrong.
The older cars were more likely to limp a person home than these new
ones. Those fuel pumps seem to be a major flaw on the newer cars too.
When they die, it's all over. Start walking! The old mechanical fuel
pumps usually gave a warning and would still limp a person home most of
the time, not to mention they could be changed on the shoulder of a road
in a half hour or less. What they call "progress" these days is not
always true.

They could also leak gasoline all over the engine and start a fire,
pump all of the oil out of the crankcase, blowing the engine, or pump
half a tank of gasoline into the crankcase - also blowing the engine.

They could vapour lock (and often did) and the valves could stick,
causing the pump to stop pumping and the engine to stop. They failed a
LOT more often than today's electrics. The average car in the sixties
and seventies went through 2 or 3 pumps, minimum, in their lifespan,
and only a SMALL fraction exceeded 100,000 miles before ending up in
the scrapyard. Go back to the forties, and pump rebuilds were required
every 2 years or so.
By the way, I dont know much about dragsters, but I've been to many
demolition derbys and am amazed how long most of those engines run with
no coolant after a radiator is blown. Of course they are all headed to
the scrap yard anyhow once the show is over.

Even more imprssive is how long an engine will often run with NO OIL
and NO COOLANT in some of the "engine blow competitions" held at car
shows etc. A few years ago one went over 27 minutes, at full throttle,
before it stopped. Half an hour later, one crank and away it went
again.

My old Pontiac TranSport 3.8 dumped all of it's antifreeze on the road
before I bought it. It ran untill it seized (about 20 miles). I bought
it - knowing it needed an engine - and it started and ran quietly but
with high emissions that would never pass - No blown head gasket, or
damaged bearings. Either rings or valve seals had definitely failed.

I put in a rebuilt that only lasted about 60,000 miles (just under
100,000km)

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:37:24 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:40:17 -0500, Frank
wrote:

On 1/26/2013 9:45 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:


wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 20:15:00 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 16:44:49 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 26, 7:32 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 18:02:56 -0600, wrote:
I had to remove my car's radiator to get it repaired. That may take
several days to a week, since the repair shop is real busy. I
want to
move the car to a differerent place on the property. It will take 5
minutes at most to start it and move it. Is it safe to run an engine
without coolant for a short time like this? It's an 80's car with
6 cyl
engine if that matters. I dont think it can get real hot in that
amount
of time, but I thought I'd ask. I'm handy with cars, but no
mechanic.

Yet another troll from HomoGay.

Yeah, sure looks like it. 5 mins to move it on his property?
In 5 mins you could go 2.5 miles at 15mph.

Hey dickhead, I'm sure I'm not the first person who has had to wait for
auto parts and needed to move a vehicle. I'm asking a serious question.
I do not have another way to move it. It's assholes like you that ruin
newsgroups. just went into my kill file.

He's been in mine (and a lot more) a LOOONG time.

Hi,
Oil also cools engine. But I don't know how long the oil alone can keep
the temp in safe range.

I'm not reading everything in thread, but water could function as
temporary coolant, drained and disposed of. What's the big deal? I'm
old enough to remember when just water was used in warm months and
methanol added as antifreeze in the winter.

If this was warm weather I could fill a can with water, tie it to the
hood, and have a hose running it thru the engine. But its been around
zero and below lately, which is what damaged the radiator in the first
place. It seems the antifreeze was too weak and it partly froze.

But at the same time this cold weather will keep the engine cool longer
to move the car. I'm probably just going to run it, one minute at a
time to move it. 5 minutes was probably longer than it will really take
anyhow. I'm only going about 1/2 mile, to move it from blocking a
needed farm roadway to the garage. Had they been able to fix the
radiator right away, I was going to just finish the job that same day.
It only takes a half hour to install it. But right now we cant get to
part of the farm to care for the animals without driving all the way
around and thru a crop field. No fun in the cold!

However tomorrow I'm gonna call a junk yard and see if they got a cheap
used radiator. Never hurts to have a spare. This stuff always breaks
down right before a weekend when everything is closed.
For the price of a new aftermarket rad, why even bother fixing or
buying used?????? Under 2 hundred bucks will buy a new quality rad
for most vehicles.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:53:26 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:50:16 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:45:45 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@
4ax.com:


2 minutes would likely be safe. 5 would definitely be pushing your
luck.




Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad
being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a
complete system.

Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds
in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding
metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the
head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.


Are you a mechanic???
I am. 30 seconds will not hurt ANYTHING. Period. The thermal mass is
highe enough to take a minute of no or light load running without harm
- even on a lightweight aluminum engine. - in most cases significantly
longer.

The Ccadillac Northstar can be driven 50 miles with absolutely no
coolant, without harm - and it is a FRAGILE engine. They do it by
rotating shutdown of cyls and reducing power output.

I would not run a dry engine for 5 minutes - but I have posted a
solution that works very well and is totally safe for a 5 minute run.
- short circuit pipe..

That's the Cadillac engine I mentioned in another post.

This whole thing does have me asking how it is that air cooled engines
survive as long as they do? Particularly the larger ones on garden
tractors, skid steers, etc?

How about aircraft????

Yea, I know they have cooling fins, but hey, people use them all the
time when the outdoor summer temperature is in the 90s, and the air is
still. Often they are just sitting at idle. How can they be getting
cooled properly? Yet they seem to last a long time in most cases. Those
find cant be doing much when there is no air movement, and usually no
fan either....

Are they built from stronger metals than a car engine?
Nope - usually crappy aluminum aloys

On Jan 28, 1:59*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:53:26 -0600, wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:50:16 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:45:45 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@
4ax.com:

*2 minutes would likely be safe. 5 would definitely be pushing your
luck.

Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad
being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a
complete system.

Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds
in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding
metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the
head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.

Are you a mechanic???
I am. *30 seconds will not hurt ANYTHING. Period. The thermal mass is
highe enough to take a minute of no or light load running without harm
- even on a lightweight aluminum engine. - in most cases significantly
longer.

The Ccadillac Northstar can be driven 50 miles with absolutely no
coolant, without harm - and it is a FRAGILE engine. They do it by
rotating shutdown of cyls and reducing power output.

I would not run a dry engine for 5 minutes - but I have posted a
solution that works very well and is totally safe for *a 5 minute run..
- short circuit pipe..

That's the Cadillac engine I mentioned in another post.

This whole thing does have me asking how it is that air cooled engines
survive as long as they do? *Particularly the larger ones on garden
tractors, skid steers, etc?

How about aircraft????

Yea, I know they have cooling fins, but hey, people use them all the
time when the outdoor summer temperature is in the 90s, and the air is
still. *Often they are just sitting at idle. *How can they be getting
cooled properly? *Yet they seem to last a long time in most cases. Those
find cant be doing much when there is no air movement, and usually no
fan either....

Are they built from stronger metals than a car engine?

Nope - usually crappy aluminum aloys- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's ok to move your car around without coolant. Not for 5 minutes
though. But you shouldn't need that long. Get everything out of the
way, start the car, move it immediately, shut it off. You'll be fine.

On 1/27/2013 3:33 PM, Doug wrote:


The problem with some here is that they take everything so literally.
He probably just said 5 minutes to be conservative.


I agree with you. For instance I called for a concrete delivery and the
guy wouldn't accept "enough for a sidewalk" and actually insisted on how
much I wanted. Then he asked me when I wanted it and he would not accept
"next week". I just can't understand it...

Words mean something. Especially when the only form of communication
being used is words. Clearly none of us can see or know the OPs
situation so the only thing to go with is what was conveyed.

Five minutes is a long time so the only reasonable assumption is that
that time was chosen for a reason. I pictured maybe he needs to start
the car and back down a long driveway, wait for traffic and then pull
into another driveway or a space across the street maybe doing some more
maneuvering along the way.

If the OP had said say "30 seconds" then a reasonable person might
assume a simple back out of a space and off the edge of the driveway or
something similar operation.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:03:47 -0500, George
wrote:

On 1/27/2013 3:33 PM, Doug wrote:


The problem with some here is that they take everything so literally.
He probably just said 5 minutes to be conservative.


I agree with you. For instance I called for a concrete delivery and the
guy wouldn't accept "enough for a sidewalk" and actually insisted on how
much I wanted. Then he asked me when I wanted it and he would not accept
"next week". I just can't understand it...

Words mean something. Especially when the only form of communication
being used is words. Clearly none of us can see or know the OPs
situation so the only thing to go with is what was conveyed.

Five minutes is a long time so the only reasonable assumption is that
that time was chosen for a reason. I pictured maybe he needs to start
the car and back down a long driveway, wait for traffic and then pull
into another driveway or a space across the street maybe doing some more
maneuvering along the way.

If the OP had said say "30 seconds" then a reasonable person might
assume a simple back out of a space and off the edge of the driveway or
something similar operation.



I just tossed out an approximate number. It's been moved, took me just
seconds over 2.5 minutes. Everything is fine. Nothing even seemed to
get hot, no steam, etc.... Was about 1/2 mile and into the garage. It
was about 20deg outdoors, so it takes longer to get stuff hot.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:38:16 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

If your'e on a farm, you should have a chain to pull that car where
you want. Hell, I kept one in my F-100 in Chicago, and pulled cars
with it.

Got lots of chains and a tractor to pull, but you cant pull it into a
garage, and it's uphill in front of garage with no one to help push
except my old body an another old guy with health problems. Yea, I could
have pulled it near the garage w/chain and drivin it into the garage I
suppose, but it's done and no problems. And pushing with a tractor
tends to **** things up.

On 1/28/13 2:53 AM, wrote:

This whole thing does have me asking how it is that air cooled engines
survive as long as they do? Particularly the larger ones on garden
tractors, skid steers, etc?
Yea, I know they have cooling fins, but hey, people use them all the
time when the outdoor summer temperature is in the 90s, and the air is
still. Often they are just sitting at idle. How can they be getting
cooled properly? Yet they seem to last a long time in most cases. Those
find cant be doing much when there is no air movement, and usually no
fan either....

Are they built from stronger metals than a car engine?


Deutz builds some fairly large air cooled engines for stationary
use. The largest one on their site is just over 170 HP.
One for mobile machinery use is rated at 322 HP. I didn't check to see
if that's maximum or continuous.
They used to sell Deutz engines for irrigation use at my workplace
years ago. One of the advantages is the engines could run hotter and be
more fuel efficient.
Wisconsin used to build air cooled gasoline engines.
Minneapolis-Moline used them on their combines. Also long ago.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:17:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:36:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 27, 7:13*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:15:13 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 27, 3:37*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:45:45 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@
4ax.com:

*2 minutes would likely be safe. 5 would definitely be pushing your
luck.

Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad
being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a
complete system.

Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds
in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding
metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the
head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.

I don't know but my hunch is you are correct. *That said since this
newsgroup seems indecisive about exact amount of time (understandable
IMO), I think he is well advised not to take a chance because I
think?? he has more to lose than to gain. *Of course ultimately he
will make that decision. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm sure all the deep knowledge you've demonstrated
about the actual topic will be of great comfort to him on
his 5 minute journey.

Yeah ok.
Now I understand why some put you in their kill file.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually, CL who just claimed he had me kill-filed, just replied to
one of my posts. If he can't figure out how to do it,
I seriously doubt you can.


First off, I didn't say I would.

Nor did he say you would, just that he doubts you can.

Second, you're beginning to sound like an idiot who deserves it.

Go fer it. Don't like the heat... It is pretty dumb to announce it
and even worse to announce it then obviously not follow through
(Trader's point).

Third, with my reader, I found kill
files not as good as I had hoped years ago.

Seems Trader was right all along.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:56:07 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:17:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:36:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 27, 7:13*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:15:13 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 27, 3:37*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:45:45 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@
4ax.com:

*2 minutes would likely be safe. 5 would definitely be pushing your
luck.

Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad
being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a
complete system.

Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds
in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding
metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the
head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.

I don't know but my hunch is you are correct. *That said since this
newsgroup seems indecisive about exact amount of time (understandable
IMO), I think he is well advised not to take a chance because I
think?? he has more to lose than to gain. *Of course ultimately he
will make that decision. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm sure all the deep knowledge you've demonstrated
about the actual topic will be of great comfort to him on
his 5 minute journey.

Yeah ok.
Now I understand why some put you in their kill file.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually, CL who just claimed he had me kill-filed, just replied to
one of my posts. If he can't figure out how to do it,
I seriously doubt you can.


First off, I didn't say I would.

Nor did he say you would, just that he doubts you can.

Second, you're beginning to sound like an idiot who deserves it.

Go fer it. Don't like the heat... It is pretty dumb to announce it
and even worse to announce it then obviously not follow through
(Trader's point).

Third, with my reader, I found kill
files not as good as I had hoped years ago.

Seems Trader was right all along.


Just looking to get into another war on words I guess.
If it makes you feel happy, sure I'm wrong and you're right. Hopefully
that will SHUT you up for now.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:02:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:56:07 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:17:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:36:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 27, 7:13*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:15:13 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 27, 3:37*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:45:45 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@
4ax.com:

*2 minutes would likely be safe. 5 would definitely be pushing your
luck.

Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad
being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a
complete system.

Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds
in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding
metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the
head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.

I don't know but my hunch is you are correct. *That said since this
newsgroup seems indecisive about exact amount of time (understandable
IMO), I think he is well advised not to take a chance because I
think?? he has more to lose than to gain. *Of course ultimately he
will make that decision. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm sure all the deep knowledge you've demonstrated
about the actual topic will be of great comfort to him on
his 5 minute journey.

Yeah ok.
Now I understand why some put you in their kill file.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually, CL who just claimed he had me kill-filed, just replied to
one of my posts. If he can't figure out how to do it,
I seriously doubt you can.


First off, I didn't say I would.

Nor did he say you would, just that he doubts you can.

Second, you're beginning to sound like an idiot who deserves it.

Go fer it. Don't like the heat... It is pretty dumb to announce it
and even worse to announce it then obviously not follow through
(Trader's point).

Third, with my reader, I found kill
files not as good as I had hoped years ago.

Seems Trader was right all along.


Just looking to get into another war on words I guess.

With you? You always come disarmed. Where's the fun in that?

If it makes you feel happy, sure I'm wrong and you're right. Hopefully
that will SHUT you up for now.

Of course I'm right but not because I'm smart, rather you're so damned
dumb.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:28:11 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:02:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:56:07 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:17:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:36:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 27, 7:13*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:15:13 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 27, 3:37*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:45:45 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@
4ax.com:

*2 minutes would likely be safe. 5 would definitely be pushing your
luck.

Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad
being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a
complete system.

Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds
in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding
metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the
head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.

I don't know but my hunch is you are correct. *That said since this
newsgroup seems indecisive about exact amount of time (understandable
IMO), I think he is well advised not to take a chance because I
think?? he has more to lose than to gain. *Of course ultimately he
will make that decision. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm sure all the deep knowledge you've demonstrated
about the actual topic will be of great comfort to him on
his 5 minute journey.

Yeah ok.
Now I understand why some put you in their kill file.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually, CL who just claimed he had me kill-filed, just replied to
one of my posts. If he can't figure out how to do it,
I seriously doubt you can.


First off, I didn't say I would.

Nor did he say you would, just that he doubts you can.

Second, you're beginning to sound like an idiot who deserves it.

Go fer it. Don't like the heat... It is pretty dumb to announce it
and even worse to announce it then obviously not follow through
(Trader's point).

Third, with my reader, I found kill
files not as good as I had hoped years ago.

Seems Trader was right all along.


Just looking to get into another war on words I guess.

With you? You always come disarmed. Where's the fun in that?

If it makes you feel happy, sure I'm wrong and you're right. Hopefully
that will SHUT you up for now.

Of course I'm right but not because I'm smart, rather you're so damned
dumb.

smile

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:10:35 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:28:11 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:02:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:56:07 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:17:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:36:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 27, 7:13*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:15:13 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 27, 3:37*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:45:45 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@
4ax.com:

*2 minutes would likely be safe. 5 would definitely be pushing your
luck.

Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad
being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a
complete system.

Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds
in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding
metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the
head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.

I don't know but my hunch is you are correct. *That said since this
newsgroup seems indecisive about exact amount of time (understandable
IMO), I think he is well advised not to take a chance because I
think?? he has more to lose than to gain. *Of course ultimately he
will make that decision. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm sure all the deep knowledge you've demonstrated
about the actual topic will be of great comfort to him on
his 5 minute journey.

Yeah ok.
Now I understand why some put you in their kill file.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually, CL who just claimed he had me kill-filed, just replied to
one of my posts. If he can't figure out how to do it,
I seriously doubt you can.


First off, I didn't say I would.

Nor did he say you would, just that he doubts you can.

Second, you're beginning to sound like an idiot who deserves it.

Go fer it. Don't like the heat... It is pretty dumb to announce it
and even worse to announce it then obviously not follow through
(Trader's point).

Third, with my reader, I found kill
files not as good as I had hoped years ago.

Seems Trader was right all along.


Just looking to get into another war on words I guess.

With you? You always come disarmed. Where's the fun in that?

If it makes you feel happy, sure I'm wrong and you're right. Hopefully
that will SHUT you up for now.

Of course I'm right but not because I'm smart, rather you're so damned
dumb.

smile

The severely retarded usually just smile when someone tells them the
truth.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:40:17 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:10:35 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:28:11 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:02:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:56:07 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:17:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:36:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 27, 7:13*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:15:13 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 27, 3:37*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:45:45 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@
4ax.com:

*2 minutes would likely be safe. 5 would definitely be pushing your
luck.

Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad
being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a
complete system.

Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds
in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding
metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the
head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.

I don't know but my hunch is you are correct. *That said since this
newsgroup seems indecisive about exact amount of time (understandable
IMO), I think he is well advised not to take a chance because I
think?? he has more to lose than to gain. *Of course ultimately he
will make that decision. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm sure all the deep knowledge you've demonstrated
about the actual topic will be of great comfort to him on
his 5 minute journey.

Yeah ok.
Now I understand why some put you in their kill file.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually, CL who just claimed he had me kill-filed, just replied to
one of my posts. If he can't figure out how to do it,
I seriously doubt you can.


First off, I didn't say I would.

Nor did he say you would, just that he doubts you can.

Second, you're beginning to sound like an idiot who deserves it.

Go fer it. Don't like the heat... It is pretty dumb to announce it
and even worse to announce it then obviously not follow through
(Trader's point).

Third, with my reader, I found kill
files not as good as I had hoped years ago.

Seems Trader was right all along.


Just looking to get into another war on words I guess.

With you? You always come disarmed. Where's the fun in that?

If it makes you feel happy, sure I'm wrong and you're right. Hopefully
that will SHUT you up for now.

Of course I'm right but not because I'm smart, rather you're so damned
dumb.

smile

The severely retarded usually just smile when someone tells them the
truth.

I guess you speak from experience. Hope you took your meds lately.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:59:21 -0500, wrote:

Yea, I know they have cooling fins, but hey, people use them all the
time when the outdoor summer temperature is in the 90s, and the air is
still. Often they are just sitting at idle. How can they be getting
cooled properly? Yet they seem to last a long time in most cases. Those
find cant be doing much when there is no air movement, and usually no
fan either....

Are they built from stronger metals than a car engine?
Nope - usually crappy aluminum aloys

Then how do they hold up?

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:52:01 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:13:45 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:59:17 -0500, wrote:

I remember Cadillac advertizing from some time back that their engine
control system would allow the vehicle to run in limp home mode without
coolant in the engine's cooling system. Of course I recall top fuel
dragsters run without a cooling system at all but they rebuild the
engine after every run or two. ^_^

TDD
And they fill the coolant passages with solid heat absorbing material.

What the heck would a "solid heat absorbing material" be?

Hard Blok engine filler from Summit Racing is one.

Moroso makes one as well - and then there is GE Blockguard.

Hard Blok appears to be an iron filled epoxy (at least it is a 2
component product)


Thats weird how something like that would help cool.

Cadillac has a special V8 engine that shuts off 4 cylinders for the limp
home mode. I just read about that recently. I forget what they call
the engine, but it seems they are very costly and hard to repair.

Like I said before, it is called a Northstar -and it's a lot more
complex than just shutting off 4 cyls for limp home.

What I wish is that all the fuel injected vehicles would have a second
fuel pump to get people home. So many of those in-tank pumps fail
leaving the driver stranded. That happened to me about 7 years ago, it
was a bitter cold night, around 20 below zero. I was out in the country
about 6 miles from home and nearly froze to death. That was before I
owned a cellphone. I probably would have frozen but halfway home I
found a barn filled with cattle, and it was fairly warm in there. I
stayed in the barn till I was warm, then walked the rest of the way
home, barely making it. After that was when I got a pre-paid cellphone
just for emergencies.

A second fuel pump is just twice as much to go wrong.

True, but at least there is a backup.

The older cars were more likely to limp a person home than these new
ones. Those fuel pumps seem to be a major flaw on the newer cars too.
When they die, it's all over. Start walking! The old mechanical fuel
pumps usually gave a warning and would still limp a person home most of
the time, not to mention they could be changed on the shoulder of a road
in a half hour or less. What they call "progress" these days is not
always true.

They could also leak gasoline all over the engine and start a fire,
pump all of the oil out of the crankcase, blowing the engine, or pump
half a tank of gasoline into the crankcase - also blowing the engine.

I never seen that happen, but I suppose it could. I did have one
dripping gas once. However I heard from a mechanic that he actually
witnesses a car explode from a shorted in tank fuel pump. He said this
dont happen often, but has happened quite a few times. I personally
dont like the idea of having an electric wire inside a tank of explosive
gas. One spark is all it takes.

They could vapour lock (and often did) and the valves could stick,
causing the pump to stop pumping and the engine to stop. They failed a
LOT more often than today's electrics. The average car in the sixties
and seventies went through 2 or 3 pumps, minimum, in their lifespan,
and only a SMALL fraction exceeded 100,000 miles before ending up in
the scrapyard. Go back to the forties, and pump rebuilds were required
every 2 years or so.

I have had vapor lock on older cars nore than once. I still have a car
with a mechanical fuel pump and carb. Well over 200,000 miles. I have
never changed the FP. So those forties cars needed their FP changed
about as often as these new in tank ones. Seems everyone I know is
always changing them. Ive done my share too.

By the way, I dont know much about dragsters, but I've been to many
demolition derbys and am amazed how long most of those engines run with
no coolant after a radiator is blown. Of course they are all headed to
the scrap yard anyhow once the show is over.

Even more imprssive is how long an engine will often run with NO OIL
and NO COOLANT in some of the "engine blow competitions" held at car
shows etc. A few years ago one went over 27 minutes, at full throttle,
before it stopped. Half an hour later, one crank and away it went
again.

Thats amazing!

My old Pontiac TranSport 3.8 dumped all of it's antifreeze on the road
before I bought it. It ran untill it seized (about 20 miles). I bought
it - knowing it needed an engine - and it started and ran quietly but
with high emissions that would never pass - No blown head gasket, or
damaged bearings. Either rings or valve seals had definitely failed.

I put in a rebuilt that only lasted about 60,000 miles (just under
100,000km)

I once got a laen mower where the piston was welded to the cylinder. I
took a block of wood an hammer and pounded down the piston. Cyl was all
grooved up, but it started and ran, just kind of smoky, but I used it
for several years after that.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:46:41 -0600, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:

Deutz builds some fairly large air cooled engines for stationary
use. The largest one on their site is just over 170 HP.
One for mobile machinery use is rated at 322 HP. I didn't check to see
if that's maximum or continuous.
They used to sell Deutz engines for irrigation use at my workplace
years ago. One of the advantages is the engines could run hotter and be
more fuel efficient.
Wisconsin used to build air cooled gasoline engines.
Minneapolis-Moline used them on their combines. Also long ago.

I had an old Bobcat skid steer with an air cooled Wisconsin engine.
Lasted a long time, but I sold it because it other stuff was always
breaking down. Engine still run well. Biggest problem with engine was
the carb likes to stick and needed to be rebuilt fairly often.

It got lots of hard use.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 00:54:06 -0600, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:59:21 -0500, wrote:

Yea, I know they have cooling fins, but hey, people use them all the
time when the outdoor summer temperature is in the 90s, and the air is
still. Often they are just sitting at idle. How can they be getting
cooled properly? Yet they seem to last a long time in most cases. Those
find cant be doing much when there is no air movement, and usually no
fan either....

Are they built from stronger metals than a car engine?
Nope - usually crappy aluminum aloys

Then how do they hold up?
Design. And they do not stand up all that well - many have a
"published life span" of as little as 300 hours.

The heavy duty engines like the OLD Kohler and Wisconsin engines were
heavy cast iron, and ran almost forever - but their horsepower per lb
ratio was disgusting..

The horsepower per cu inch displacement of the small engines is also
very conservative, to put it mildly. (except in the case of the high
rpm super lightweight 2 strokes).

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 01:06:12 -0600, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:52:01 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:13:45 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:59:17 -0500, wrote:

I remember Cadillac advertizing from some time back that their engine
control system would allow the vehicle to run in limp home mode without
coolant in the engine's cooling system. Of course I recall top fuel
dragsters run without a cooling system at all but they rebuild the
engine after every run or two. ^_^

TDD
And they fill the coolant passages with solid heat absorbing material.

What the heck would a "solid heat absorbing material" be?

Hard Blok engine filler from Summit Racing is one.

Moroso makes one as well - and then there is GE Blockguard.

Hard Blok appears to be an iron filled epoxy (at least it is a 2
component product)


Thats weird how something like that would help cool.

It does not help cool. It just makes it take longer to heat up.
Thermal mass is king. With, let's say 5 times as much thermal mass, it
takes 5 times as long to reach a given temperature (and to cool off
afterwards)

Cadillac has a special V8 engine that shuts off 4 cylinders for the limp
home mode. I just read about that recently. I forget what they call
the engine, but it seems they are very costly and hard to repair.

Like I said before, it is called a Northstar -and it's a lot more
complex than just shutting off 4 cyls for limp home.

What I wish is that all the fuel injected vehicles would have a second
fuel pump to get people home. So many of those in-tank pumps fail
leaving the driver stranded. That happened to me about 7 years ago, it
was a bitter cold night, around 20 below zero. I was out in the country
about 6 miles from home and nearly froze to death. That was before I
owned a cellphone. I probably would have frozen but halfway home I
found a barn filled with cattle, and it was fairly warm in there. I
stayed in the barn till I was warm, then walked the rest of the way
home, barely making it. After that was when I got a pre-paid cellphone
just for emergencies.

A second fuel pump is just twice as much to go wrong.

True, but at least there is a backup.

Which is useless if it has also failed.

The older cars were more likely to limp a person home than these new
ones. Those fuel pumps seem to be a major flaw on the newer cars too.
When they die, it's all over. Start walking! The old mechanical fuel
pumps usually gave a warning and would still limp a person home most of
the time, not to mention they could be changed on the shoulder of a road
in a half hour or less. What they call "progress" these days is not
always true.

They could also leak gasoline all over the engine and start a fire,
pump all of the oil out of the crankcase, blowing the engine, or pump
half a tank of gasoline into the crankcase - also blowing the engine.

I never seen that happen, but I suppose it could. I did have one
dripping gas once. However I heard from a mechanic that he actually
witnesses a car explode from a shorted in tank fuel pump. He said this
dont happen often, but has happened quite a few times. I personally
dont like the idea of having an electric wire inside a tank of explosive
gas. One spark is all it takes.

Actually it is EXTREMELY rare - I have NEVER heard of it (and I AM a
mechanic - although not currently earning my living in the trade). In
order for the tank to explode from a spark - or even a BLOW TORCH
inside the tank, the tank would need to be vented to the atmosphere -
and the mixture would need to be EXTREMELY diluted by air. With fuel
vapour density at least 3 or 4 times that of air, the vapour naturally
displaces the air in the tank -The flamability range of gasoline is
from 1.2 to 7.1:1 by weight

They could vapour lock (and often did) and the valves could stick,
causing the pump to stop pumping and the engine to stop. They failed a
LOT more often than today's electrics. The average car in the sixties
and seventies went through 2 or 3 pumps, minimum, in their lifespan,
and only a SMALL fraction exceeded 100,000 miles before ending up in
the scrapyard. Go back to the forties, and pump rebuilds were required
every 2 years or so.

I have had vapor lock on older cars nore than once. I still have a car
with a mechanical fuel pump and carb. Well over 200,000 miles. I have
never changed the FP. So those forties cars needed their FP changed
about as often as these new in tank ones. Seems everyone I know is
always changing them. Ive done my share too.

Well, both of my old fuel injected Chryslers went over 240,000km on
the original pump. My 1995 TransSport went over 300,000. My friend's
Honda went over 700,000, and so did my neighbour's GMC pickup.
Personally - and in my immediate family, I have NEVER had an electric
fuel pump fail. The Pontiac used to draw air and stup if I hit
washboard road below 1/4 tank - but that's all.

By the way, I dont know much about dragsters, but I've been to many
demolition derbys and am amazed how long most of those engines run with
no coolant after a radiator is blown. Of course they are all headed to
the scrap yard anyhow once the show is over.

Even more imprssive is how long an engine will often run with NO OIL
and NO COOLANT in some of the "engine blow competitions" held at car
shows etc. A few years ago one went over 27 minutes, at full throttle,
before it stopped. Half an hour later, one crank and away it went
again.

Thats amazing!

My old Pontiac TranSport 3.8 dumped all of it's antifreeze on the road
before I bought it. It ran untill it seized (about 20 miles). I bought
it - knowing it needed an engine - and it started and ran quietly but
with high emissions that would never pass - No blown head gasket, or
damaged bearings. Either rings or valve seals had definitely failed.

I put in a rebuilt that only lasted about 60,000 miles (just under
100,000km)

I once got a laen mower where the piston was welded to the cylinder. I
took a block of wood an hammer and pounded down the piston. Cyl was all
grooved up, but it started and ran, just kind of smoky, but I used it
for several years after that.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 01:09:24 -0600, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:46:41 -0600, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:

Deutz builds some fairly large air cooled engines for stationary
use. The largest one on their site is just over 170 HP.
One for mobile machinery use is rated at 322 HP. I didn't check to see
if that's maximum or continuous.
They used to sell Deutz engines for irrigation use at my workplace
years ago. One of the advantages is the engines could run hotter and be
more fuel efficient.
Wisconsin used to build air cooled gasoline engines.
Minneapolis-Moline used them on their combines. Also long ago.

I had an old Bobcat skid steer with an air cooled Wisconsin engine.
Lasted a long time, but I sold it because it other stuff was always
breaking down. Engine still run well. Biggest problem with engine was
the carb likes to stick and needed to be rebuilt fairly often.

It got lots of hard use.
Extremely heavy lump of cast iron - and bullet-proof.
Some had alloy heads - but most were cast - and compression ratios on
the low side of 6:1

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:18:44 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:40:17 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:10:35 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:28:11 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:02:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:56:07 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:17:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:36:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 27, 7:13*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:15:13 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 27, 3:37*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:45:45 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@
4ax.com:

*2 minutes would likely be safe. 5 would definitely be pushing your
luck.

Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad
being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a
complete system.

Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds
in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding
metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the
head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.

I don't know but my hunch is you are correct. *That said since this
newsgroup seems indecisive about exact amount of time (understandable
IMO), I think he is well advised not to take a chance because I
think?? he has more to lose than to gain. *Of course ultimately he
will make that decision. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm sure all the deep knowledge you've demonstrated
about the actual topic will be of great comfort to him on
his 5 minute journey.

Yeah ok.
Now I understand why some put you in their kill file.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually, CL who just claimed he had me kill-filed, just replied to
one of my posts. If he can't figure out how to do it,
I seriously doubt you can.


First off, I didn't say I would.

Nor did he say you would, just that he doubts you can.

Second, you're beginning to sound like an idiot who deserves it.

Go fer it. Don't like the heat... It is pretty dumb to announce it
and even worse to announce it then obviously not follow through
(Trader's point).

Third, with my reader, I found kill
files not as good as I had hoped years ago.

Seems Trader was right all along.


Just looking to get into another war on words I guess.

With you? You always come disarmed. Where's the fun in that?

If it makes you feel happy, sure I'm wrong and you're right. Hopefully
that will SHUT you up for now.

Of course I'm right but not because I'm smart, rather you're so damned
dumb.

smile

The severely retarded usually just smile when someone tells them the
truth.

I guess you speak from experience.

Well, yes, I've been talking to you long enough.

Hope you took your meds lately.

Of course, twice a day. It's clear that you need real help though,
Douggie. A very long-sleeved jacket would do it.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:38:12 -0500, wrote:

Well, both of my old fuel injected Chryslers went over 240,000km on
the original pump. My 1995 TransSport went over 300,000. My friend's
Honda went over 700,000, and so did my neighbour's GMC pickup.
Personally - and in my immediate family, I have NEVER had an electric
fuel pump fail. The Pontiac used to draw air and stup if I hit
washboard road below 1/4 tank - but that's all.



You either have good luck or you got better pumps. A local mechanic
said 60% of his business is replacing in-tank pumps. My 91 GMC truck
developed a leak in the lines on top of the pump outside of tank. I
replaced that with a used part, but the same pump. Couple weeks later
that pump died, I put in a new one. That lasted a couple months and
died. That's when I sawed a hole in the box because I refused to drop
the tank again. I got a used pump from the junkyard, put it in, and
sold the truck. Main reason I sold it was the pump issues.

A friend has a small Chevy pickup, he's been thru 3 pumps in 2 years.
The first replacement only lasted 2 months. Seems the ones sold at the
parts stores are all crap. I will say that the guy always runs his
truck on almost empty. Puts in 3 gallons at a time, so that may be part
of his problem. But either way, it seems all I hear locally is fuel
pump failures.

I had an 86 Olds compact car which is the one that stranded me on that
very cold night cuz of the pump. The car had other problems too, so
after the pump went, I junked the car.

I like my old carbureted Chevy Caprice with mech fuel pump. It just
keeps going and going with no engine problems. Biggest problems on that
car have been worn front end parts and the brakes seem to have a rather
short lifespan, but I'll live with that.

My next truck is going to have a carb, no matter how old it is.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:30:51 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:18:44 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:40:17 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:10:35 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:28:11 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:02:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:56:07 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:17:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:36:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 27, 7:13*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:15:13 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 27, 3:37*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:45:45 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@
4ax.com:

*2 minutes would likely be safe. 5 would definitely be pushing your
luck.

Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad
being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a
complete system.

Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds
in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding
metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the
head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.

I don't know but my hunch is you are correct. *That said since this
newsgroup seems indecisive about exact amount of time (understandable
IMO), I think he is well advised not to take a chance because I
think?? he has more to lose than to gain. *Of course ultimately he
will make that decision. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm sure all the deep knowledge you've demonstrated
about the actual topic will be of great comfort to him on
his 5 minute journey.

Yeah ok.
Now I understand why some put you in their kill file.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually, CL who just claimed he had me kill-filed, just replied to
one of my posts. If he can't figure out how to do it,
I seriously doubt you can.


First off, I didn't say I would.

Nor did he say you would, just that he doubts you can.

Second, you're beginning to sound like an idiot who deserves it.

Go fer it. Don't like the heat... It is pretty dumb to announce it
and even worse to announce it then obviously not follow through
(Trader's point).

Third, with my reader, I found kill
files not as good as I had hoped years ago.

Seems Trader was right all along.


Just looking to get into another war on words I guess.

With you? You always come disarmed. Where's the fun in that?

If it makes you feel happy, sure I'm wrong and you're right. Hopefully
that will SHUT you up for now.

Of course I'm right but not because I'm smart, rather you're so damned
dumb.

smile

The severely retarded usually just smile when someone tells them the
truth.

I guess you speak from experience.

Well, yes, I've been talking to you long enough.

Hope you took your meds lately.

Of course, twice a day. It's clear that you need real help though,
Douggie. A very long-sleeved jacket would do it.


Obvious you need more medicine or more doseage so you better get
yourself checked out soon.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 16:14:03 -0600, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:38:12 -0500, wrote:

Well, both of my old fuel injected Chryslers went over 240,000km on
the original pump. My 1995 TransSport went over 300,000. My friend's
Honda went over 700,000, and so did my neighbour's GMC pickup.
Personally - and in my immediate family, I have NEVER had an electric
fuel pump fail. The Pontiac used to draw air and stup if I hit
washboard road below 1/4 tank - but that's all.



You either have good luck or you got better pumps.

They were all original equipment pumps.
1985 Lebaron, 1988 New Yorker, 1995 TranSport. 92 Civic, and1996 GMC
Pickup. All lasted over 12 years - the Chryslers 0ver 18.
A local mechanic
said 60% of his business is replacing in-tank pumps. My 91 GMC truck
developed a leak in the lines on top of the pump outside of tank. I
replaced that with a used part, but the same pump. Couple weeks later
that pump died, I put in a new one. That lasted a couple months and
died. That's when I sawed a hole in the box because I refused to drop
the tank again. I got a used pump from the junkyard, put it in, and
sold the truck. Main reason I sold it was the pump issues.

When I was actively working as a mechanic we had more problems with
the wiring outside the tank, and rusted lines on the fuel guage unit
than pumps themselves. Hardly had any actual failed pumps on Toyotas
- carbureted or injected - intank or frame mounted pumps.

A friend has a small Chevy pickup, he's been thru 3 pumps in 2 years.
The first replacement only lasted 2 months. Seems the ones sold at the
parts stores are all crap. I will say that the guy always runs his
truck on almost empty. Puts in 3 gallons at a time, so that may be part
of his problem. But either way, it seems all I hear locally is fuel
pump failures.

A LOT of the replacement parts ARE junk. But the cheapassed driver who
can't figure out that filling the top third costs the same as the
bottom third deserves to change a lot of fuel pumps.

I had an 86 Olds compact car which is the one that stranded me on that
very cold night cuz of the pump. The car had other problems too, so
after the pump went, I junked the car.

I like my old carbureted Chevy Caprice with mech fuel pump. It just
keeps going and going with no engine problems. Biggest problems on that
car have been worn front end parts and the brakes seem to have a rather
short lifespan, but I'll live with that.

My next truck is going to have a carb, no matter how old it is.
You can have it. Carburetor rebuilds - leaky floats, sticky and leaky
needle valves, bad accellerator pumps, sticky and malfunctioning
chokes, bad fuel mileage and high exhaust emissions, perculation when
hot - all the problems that have been virtually eliminated by fuel
injection

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 17:28:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:30:51 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:18:44 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:40:17 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:10:35 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:28:11 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:02:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:56:07 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:17:46 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:36:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 27, 7:13*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:15:13 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 27, 3:37*pm, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:45:45 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@
4ax.com:

*2 minutes would likely be safe. 5 would definitely be pushing your
luck.

Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad
being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a
complete system.

Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds
in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding
metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the
head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.

I don't know but my hunch is you are correct. *That said since this
newsgroup seems indecisive about exact amount of time (understandable
IMO), I think he is well advised not to take a chance because I
think?? he has more to lose than to gain. *Of course ultimately he
will make that decision. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm sure all the deep knowledge you've demonstrated
about the actual topic will be of great comfort to him on
his 5 minute journey.

Yeah ok.
Now I understand why some put you in their kill file.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually, CL who just claimed he had me kill-filed, just replied to
one of my posts. If he can't figure out how to do it,
I seriously doubt you can.


First off, I didn't say I would.

Nor did he say you would, just that he doubts you can.

Second, you're beginning to sound like an idiot who deserves it.

Go fer it. Don't like the heat... It is pretty dumb to announce it
and even worse to announce it then obviously not follow through
(Trader's point).

Third, with my reader, I found kill
files not as good as I had hoped years ago.

Seems Trader was right all along.


Just looking to get into another war on words I guess.

With you? You always come disarmed. Where's the fun in that?

If it makes you feel happy, sure I'm wrong and you're right. Hopefully
that will SHUT you up for now.

Of course I'm right but not because I'm smart, rather you're so damned
dumb.

smile

The severely retarded usually just smile when someone tells them the
truth.

I guess you speak from experience.

Well, yes, I've been talking to you long enough.

Hope you took your meds lately.

Of course, twice a day. It's clear that you need real help though,
Douggie. A very long-sleeved jacket would do it.


Obvious you need more medicine or more doseage so you better get
yourself checked out soon.

You really are a dumb****. ...and really proud of it.

My next truck is going to have a carb, no matter how old it is.
You can have it. Carburetor rebuilds - leaky floats, sticky and leaky
needle valves, bad accellerator pumps, sticky and malfunctioning
chokes, bad fuel mileage and high exhaust emissions, perculation when
hot - all the problems that have been virtually eliminated by fuel
injection

Agreed! Fuel injection is much simpler and reliable... and with OBDII
easier to troubleshoot

If your after a truck, get a for real truck... not one of those
expensive 'truck like product' gimmicks that seem to be everywhere
now... go for a Tundra or Tacoma.

Erik

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:59:05 -0800, Erik wrote:


My next truck is going to have a carb, no matter how old it is.
You can have it. Carburetor rebuilds - leaky floats, sticky and leaky
needle valves, bad accellerator pumps, sticky and malfunctioning
chokes, bad fuel mileage and high exhaust emissions, perculation when
hot - all the problems that have been virtually eliminated by fuel
injection

Agreed! Fuel injection is much simpler and reliable... and with OBDII
easier to troubleshoot

If your after a truck, get a for real truck... not one of those
expensive 'truck like product' gimmicks that seem to be everywhere
now... go for a Tundra or Tacoma.

Erik
Or a base F150 or GMC Sierra