The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

--
Stephanie: What did you do today?
Leonard Hofstadter: Well, I'm a physicist, so I just thought about stuff.
Stephanie: That's it?
Leonard Hofstadter: I wrote some of it down.

In article ,
Metspitzer wrote:

The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

I almost got run over by one backing out of parking space without
looking a couple of days ago. They ARE quiet.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:18:39 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Metspitzer wrote:

The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

I almost got run over by one backing out of parking space without
looking a couple of days ago. They ARE quiet.

Washington state is loosing gas taxes from these green cars, because
they pay lesser taxes by not buying enough fuel at the pump.

Now the creatures want to place a tax per mile on the green cars to
make-up the difference.

Insanity ...

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:03:42 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:18:39 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Metspitzer wrote:

The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

I almost got run over by one backing out of parking space without
looking a couple of days ago. They ARE quiet.

Washington state is loosing gas taxes from these green cars, because
they pay lesser taxes by not buying enough fuel at the pump.

Now the creatures want to place a tax per mile on the green cars to
make-up the difference.

Insanity ...

You don't want greenies to pay for their share of the roads? I sure
do! Double! ...unless they're packing heat. ;-)

On 1/10/13 5:14 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

"Safety is our highest priority" ???????????
So why are the geniuses proposing a 54 mpg standard for vehicles?

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:24:21 -0600, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:

On 1/10/13 5:14 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

"Safety is our highest priority" ???????????
So why are the geniuses proposing a 54 mpg standard for vehicles?

Herding sheep is their highest priority.

On 1/10/2013 6:18 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
Metspitzer wrote:

The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

I almost got run over by one backing out of parking space without
looking a couple of days ago. They ARE quiet.


I rode in a new Prius and it was surprising how high the road noise was.

Quiet outside, noisy inside

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
Metspitzer wrote:

The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

I almost got run over by one backing out of parking space without
looking a couple of days ago. They ARE quiet.

Baseball cards.

Greg

On 01/10/2013 03:18 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:

I almost got run over by one backing out of parking space without
looking a couple of days ago. They ARE quiet.

HA! You beat me to this post, and mine happened just two days ago.

Jon

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:52:34 -0500, Frank
wrote:

On 1/10/2013 6:18 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
Metspitzer wrote:

The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

I almost got run over by one backing out of parking space without
looking a couple of days ago. They ARE quiet.


I rode in a new Prius and it was surprising how high the road noise was.

Quiet outside, noisy inside
The busy little 4 cyl in a Prius is hardly silent from outside either
- unless you are talking road noise when in electric only mode.

My old electric Fiat was far from silent when accelerating from a dead
stop either. AC motors are a bit quieter, but if the frequency of the
switching is set "right" they can produce significant sound as well.

On 1/10/2013 3:14 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.


Guess they picked that number to keep the noise down in a 20 MPH school
zone.

On 1/10/2013 5:14 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

--
Stephanie: What did you do today?
Leonard Hofstadter: Well, I'm a physicist, so I just thought about stuff.
Stephanie: That's it?
Leonard Hofstadter: I wrote some of it down.


I believe the darn things should sound like the flying cars from "The
Jetsons". ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjy-fnsmWR4

TDD

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:19:44 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 1/10/2013 5:14 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

--
Stephanie: What did you do today?
Leonard Hofstadter: Well, I'm a physicist, so I just thought about stuff.
Stephanie: That's it?
Leonard Hofstadter: I wrote some of it down.


I believe the darn things should sound like the flying cars from "The
Jetsons". ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjy-fnsmWR4

Get in an accident and they'll fold up like one.

On Jan 10, 4:03*pm, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:18:39 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:





In article ,
Metspitzer wrote:

The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

* *I almost got run over by one backing out of parking space without
looking a couple of days ago. They ARE quiet.

Washington state is loosing gas taxes from these green cars, because
they pay lesser taxes by not buying enough fuel at the pump.

Now the creatures want to place a tax per mile on the green cars to
make-up the difference.

Insanity ...

So you think they should be allowed to use public property and not
help pay for it?

Harry K

On Jan 10, 4:52*pm, Frank wrote:
On 1/10/2013 6:18 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:





In article ,
* Metspitzer wrote:

The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

* * *I almost got run over by one backing out of parking space without
looking a couple of days ago. They ARE quiet.

I rode in a new Prius and it was surprising how high the road noise was.

Quiet outside, noisy inside

Sound deadening adds weight

The advocates of them insist they are fine for long distance driving.
Yep if you want to ride a small crackerbox with limited amenities long
distances.

Harry K

On 1/10/2013 10:53 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:19:44 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 1/10/2013 5:14 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

--
Stephanie: What did you do today?
Leonard Hofstadter: Well, I'm a physicist, so I just thought about stuff.
Stephanie: That's it?
Leonard Hofstadter: I wrote some of it down.


I believe the darn things should sound like the flying cars from "The
Jetsons". ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjy-fnsmWR4

Get in an accident and they'll fold up like one.


Don't you just love the sound of the Jetsons car? ^_^

TDD

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:03:42 -0800, Oren wrote:




Washington state is loosing gas taxes from these green cars, because
they pay lesser taxes by not buying enough fuel at the pump.

Now the creatures want to place a tax per mile on the green cars to
make-up the difference.

Insanity ...

Why insanity? They use the roads, wear them out just like the rest of
us. They should pay their fair share to maintain them.

In article ,
Dean Hoffman " wrote:

On 1/10/13 5:14 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

"Safety is our highest priority" ???????????
So why are the geniuses proposing a 54 mpg standard for vehicles?


Always has been. Thus, when air bags were first put in cars, they were
sold as an ALTERNATIVE safety measure for those who wouldn't buckle
their seat belts.. Ooops.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

The Daring Dufas wrote:
-snip-


I believe the darn things should sound like the flying cars from "The
Jetsons". ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjy-fnsmWR4

I agree-- and the start-up, and reverse sounds should be different,
but one should be that 'meet George Jetson' riff.

Jim

On 1/10/2013 6:14 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

--
Stephanie: What did you do today?
Leonard Hofstadter: Well, I'm a physicist, so I just thought about stuff.
Stephanie: That's it?
Leonard Hofstadter: I wrote some of it down.

Sort of reminds me of the old Western Electric company from the early
days when they used to make vacuum cleaners. They had an excellent
unit, that had more suction than the competition, but couldn't sell
them. Why? They were too quiet and the users perceived them to not be
as powerful as the noisy competition!

Per Metspitzer:
The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching.

Riding my bike, I've been startled several times by cars passing
me in electric mode. No close calls yet, but the hazard seems
obvious.

I recall an interview with somebody about a deceased deaf person.
The question arose "How did he die?". The answer was "The same
way the vast majority of deaf people die: he was hit by a car.".

Rang true to me at the time, and now it's been re-enforced.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 1/10/2013 9:02 PM, wrote:

The busy little 4 cyl in a Prius is hardly silent from outside either
- unless you are talking road noise when in electric only mode.

When a Prius stops for a rather short time (like at a red light) the gas
engine stops.

When it starts moving it is powered by battery-electric motor until the
speed gets to a few MPH and the gas engine starts. A Prius is very quiet
at slow speed on electric motor only.

On 1/10/2013 7:03 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:18:39 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Metspitzer wrote:

The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

I almost got run over by one backing out of parking space without
looking a couple of days ago. They ARE quiet.

Washington state is loosing gas taxes from these green cars, because
they pay lesser taxes by not buying enough fuel at the pump.

Now the creatures want to place a tax per mile on the green cars to
make-up the difference.

Insanity ...


What part is insane? The government collects road use taxes on liquid
fuel sales to pay for roads. Since "green" car operators purchase less
or maybe no liquid fuels how do you propose taxes would be fairly collected?

And the cake mix that didn't sell, with just add water. They changed the
directions to add an egg and water, and sales took right off.

I was cleaning carpet for a restaurant, years ago. Using the unscented
detergent. I ran out, and had to use the stinky stuff. The manager came by,
and remarked how that stuff really was working. Not sure it really did any
better.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Art Todesco"
wrote in message ...

Sort of reminds me of the old Western Electric company from the early
days when they used to make vacuum cleaners. They had an excellent
unit, that had more suction than the competition, but couldn't sell
them. Why? They were too quiet and the users perceived them to not be
as powerful as the noisy competition!

Metspitzer wrote:
The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.


Assholes in the government abound! This is a solution is search of a
problem!

How many blind people have been killed or injured by "silent" cars?
Approximately zero.

Makes as much sense as having each Prius tow a steam calliope playing
Hackity-Sack music complete with a scampering monkey soliciting donations.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 11:18:18 -0500, George
wrote:

On 1/10/2013 7:03 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:18:39 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Metspitzer wrote:

The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

I almost got run over by one backing out of parking space without
looking a couple of days ago. They ARE quiet.

Washington state is loosing gas taxes from these green cars, because
they pay lesser taxes by not buying enough fuel at the pump.

Now the creatures want to place a tax per mile on the green cars to
make-up the difference.

Insanity ...


What part is insane? The government collects road use taxes on liquid
fuel sales to pay for roads. Since "green" car operators purchase less
or maybe no liquid fuels how do you propose taxes would be fairly collected?

I agree with you (Keith & Ed) they should pay taxes for road use like
we all do at the pump. How will they record and collect the
information about mileage? Will they demand that you attach some gizmo
to the car and what gives them the authority to do so?

My mileage is taken each year when the smog inspection is done. I see
no simple way other than that... Not all cars are registered at one
time, so it seems to me it would be a nightmare - just sayin'.

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 23:47:38 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 1/10/2013 10:53 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:19:44 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 1/10/2013 5:14 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

--
Stephanie: What did you do today?
Leonard Hofstadter: Well, I'm a physicist, so I just thought about stuff.
Stephanie: That's it?
Leonard Hofstadter: I wrote some of it down.


I believe the darn things should sound like the flying cars from "The
Jetsons". ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjy-fnsmWR4

Get in an accident and they'll fold up like one.


Don't you just love the sound of the Jetsons car? ^_^

Well, sure. I sorta liked Astro's voice, too.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 11:18:18 -0500, George
I agree with you (Keith & Ed) they should pay taxes for road use like
we all do at the pump. How will they record and collect the
information about mileage? Will they demand that you attach some gizmo
to the car and what gives them the authority to do so?

Doesn't the computer in the newer cars keep track of the milage ? Not sure
if all states require an inspection or not. They have to plug into the
computer to pass the inspection . In NC the cars are sent a seperate state
tax bill. It would be easy to send out the tax bill based on the car milage
and tax value as the tax value is based on the 'blue book' value.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:43:19 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 11:18:18 -0500, George
wrote:

On 1/10/2013 7:03 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:18:39 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Metspitzer wrote:

The Department of Transportation is proposing new regulations that
would require hybrid and electric cars to make more noise when their
engines are running. The rules are designed to make it easier for
nearby pedestrians to hear the traditional quiet automobiles when they
are approaching. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the change
would make it easier for hybrid and electric car drivers to share the
road.

"Safety is our highest priority, and this proposal will help keep
everyone using our nation's streets and roadways safe, whether they
are motorists, bicyclists or pedestrians, and especially the blind and
visually impaired," LaHood said in a statement released by the DOT.
Under the requirement, cars would be required to be heard above
typical street noises when they are traveling at speeds less than 18
miles per hour.

I almost got run over by one backing out of parking space without
looking a couple of days ago. They ARE quiet.

Washington state is loosing gas taxes from these green cars, because
they pay lesser taxes by not buying enough fuel at the pump.

Now the creatures want to place a tax per mile on the green cars to
make-up the difference.

Insanity ...


What part is insane? The government collects road use taxes on liquid
fuel sales to pay for roads. Since "green" car operators purchase less
or maybe no liquid fuels how do you propose taxes would be fairly collected?

I agree with you (Keith & Ed) they should pay taxes for road use like
we all do at the pump. How will they record and collect the
information about mileage? Will they demand that you attach some gizmo
to the car and what gives them the authority to do so?

That's the plan, AIUI. In fact, some are suggesting that we all use
them. Makes it easier to herd the sheep, don't ya' know.

Who gives them the authority? Remember, driving is a privilege. The
government owns the roads.

My mileage is taken each year when the smog inspection is done. I see
no simple way other than that... Not all cars are registered at one
time, so it seems to me it would be a nightmare - just sayin'.

GPS is cheap now. Force every car to have one and it gets even
cheaper. After all, Uncle Sam is requiring a black box. What's a GPS
cost on top of that? $.50 for the half that doesn't already have a
GPS?

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:37:36 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:43:19 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 11:18:18 -0500, George
wrote:

On 1/10/2013 7:03 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:18:39 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Metspitzer wrote:


....

Washington state is loosing gas taxes from these green cars, because
they pay lesser taxes by not buying enough fuel at the pump.

Now the creatures want to place a tax per mile on the green cars to
make-up the difference.

Insanity ...


What part is insane? The government collects road use taxes on liquid
fuel sales to pay for roads. Since "green" car operators purchase less
or maybe no liquid fuels how do you propose taxes would be fairly collected?

I agree with you (Keith & Ed) they should pay taxes for road use like
we all do at the pump. How will they record and collect the
information about mileage? Will they demand that you attach some gizmo
to the car and what gives them the authority to do so?

That's the plan, AIUI. In fact, some are suggesting that we all use
them. Makes it easier to herd the sheep, don't ya' know.


They can suggest all they like. I ain't fallin' for it.

Who gives them the authority? Remember, driving is a privilege. The
government owns the roads.


They do not own my vehicle.

My mileage is taken each year when the smog inspection is done. I see
no simple way other than that... Not all cars are registered at one
time, so it seems to me it would be a nightmare - just sayin'.

GPS is cheap now. Force every car to have one and it gets even
cheaper. After all, Uncle Sam is requiring a black box. What's a GPS
cost on top of that? $.50 for the half that doesn't already have a
GPS?

Uh-huh. One giant database for government abuse and intrusion.

Spit!

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:34:08 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:37:36 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:43:19 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 11:18:18 -0500, George
wrote:

On 1/10/2013 7:03 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:18:39 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Metspitzer wrote:


...

Washington state is loosing gas taxes from these green cars, because
they pay lesser taxes by not buying enough fuel at the pump.

Now the creatures want to place a tax per mile on the green cars to
make-up the difference.

Insanity ...


What part is insane? The government collects road use taxes on liquid
fuel sales to pay for roads. Since "green" car operators purchase less
or maybe no liquid fuels how do you propose taxes would be fairly collected?

I agree with you (Keith & Ed) they should pay taxes for road use like
we all do at the pump. How will they record and collect the
information about mileage? Will they demand that you attach some gizmo
to the car and what gives them the authority to do so?

That's the plan, AIUI. In fact, some are suggesting that we all use
them. Makes it easier to herd the sheep, don't ya' know.


They can suggest all they like. I ain't fallin' for it.

Who gives them the authority? Remember, driving is a privilege. The
government owns the roads.


They do not own my vehicle.

The *do* own the roads it drives on. Hell, some states even claim to
own your driveway and you *can* get a DUI on your own property. Don't
tell me that they haven't the power to make your life miserable.

My mileage is taken each year when the smog inspection is done. I see
no simple way other than that... Not all cars are registered at one
time, so it seems to me it would be a nightmare - just sayin'.

GPS is cheap now. Force every car to have one and it gets even
cheaper. After all, Uncle Sam is requiring a black box. What's a GPS
cost on top of that? $.50 for the half that doesn't already have a
GPS?

Uh-huh. One giant database for government abuse and intrusion.

But of course. All the better to herd sheep. That *is* what people
just voted for.

On 1/11/13 5:54 PM, wrote:

But of course. All the better to herd sheep. That *is* what people
just voted for.

Lining up for an inaugural ball:
http://tinyurl.com/aslbhsx

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:43:19 -0800, Oren wrote:



I agree with you (Keith & Ed) they should pay taxes for road use like
we all do at the pump. How will they record and collect the
information about mileage? Will they demand that you attach some gizmo
to the car and what gives them the authority to do so?

My mileage is taken each year when the smog inspection is done. I see
no simple way other than that... Not all cars are registered at one
time, so it seems to me it would be a nightmare - just sayin'.

Easy enough to do. Many cars already come equipped to do that with
OnStar or BlueLink. They send monthly reports to the owner about the
car, they could also send it to the tax man.

The more difficult part is doing it by state. Truck for many years
have had to record miles traveled and fuel bought in each state
traveled. They then pay the appropriate taxes to each state. It is
now automated with GPS systems, and while that can be put into cars,
it is more expensive. With volume, I bet it is no more than a couple
of hundred bucks per car.

I live in a border town and travel more in the other state than where
my car is registered. With gas, I pay the tax where I buy the fuel.
With electric, I'd pay the tax at home, but wear out the roads
elsewhere.

With an all electric, there should be no smog inspection, but I'm sure
the state will find a way of getting you in to pay the tax.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:03:06 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:



Doesn't the computer in the newer cars keep track of the milage ? Not sure
if all states require an inspection or not. They have to plug into the
computer to pass the inspection . In NC the cars are sent a seperate state
tax bill. It would be easy to send out the tax bill based on the car milage
and tax value as the tax value is based on the 'blue book' value.

Here in CT we have no safety inspection and emissions is only after
four years old. Even then, it is only every other year for
inspection.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:21:03 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:





Always has been. Thus, when air bags were first put in cars, they were
sold as an ALTERNATIVE safety measure for those who wouldn't buckle
their seat belts.. Ooops.

Seat belts were an option on some cars in the early 60's. No one
bought them so the car companies may no profit on them. They the
government mandated them and the car companies apologized for raising
the price of the car and blamed the government for them being able to
make a couple of extra bucks.

My '62 Corvair had the bolt holes so you could buy aftermarket belts.
IIRC, the attachment system was mandated around that time, belts a
couple of years later in 1965. Wisconsin was first in 1961.

On Jan 11, 10:26*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:21:03 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:



Always has been. Thus, when air bags were first put in cars, they were
sold as an ALTERNATIVE safety measure for those who wouldn't buckle
their seat belts.. *Ooops.

Seat belts were an option on some cars in the early 60's. No one
bought them so the car companies may no profit on them. *They the
government mandated them and the car companies apologized for raising
the price of the car and blamed the government for them being able to
make a couple of extra bucks.

My '62 Corvair had the bolt holes so you could buy aftermarket belts.
IIRC, the attachment system was mandated around that time, belts a
couple of years later in 1965. *Wisconsin was first in 1961.

my wife had a ford falcon of that era that had similar mounting
plates. Bell Labshad some sort of a deal where we the employees could
buy seat belts and then put them in ourselves.

On 01-11-2013 15:35, HeyBub wrote:
Makes as much sense as having each Prius tow a steam calliope playing
Hackity-Sack music complete with a scampering monkey soliciting donations.

I could vote for that! Bread and circuses!

--
Wes Groleau

In any formula, constants (especially those obtained
from handbooks) are to be treated as variables.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 18:57:29 -0600, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:

On 1/11/13 5:54 PM, wrote:

But of course. All the better to herd sheep. That *is* what people
just voted for.

Lining up for an inaugural ball:
http://tinyurl.com/aslbhsx

That's just not right. ROTFLMAO!

On 1/11/2013 11:12 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:43:19 -0800, Oren wrote:



I agree with you (Keith & Ed) they should pay taxes for road use like
we all do at the pump. How will they record and collect the
information about mileage? Will they demand that you attach some gizmo
to the car and what gives them the authority to do so?

My mileage is taken each year when the smog inspection is done. I see
no simple way other than that... Not all cars are registered at one
time, so it seems to me it would be a nightmare - just sayin'.

Easy enough to do. Many cars already come equipped to do that with
OnStar or BlueLink. They send monthly reports to the owner about the
car, they could also send it to the tax man.

The more difficult part is doing it by state. Truck for many years
have had to record miles traveled and fuel bought in each state
traveled. They then pay the appropriate taxes to each state. It is
now automated with GPS systems, and while that can be put into cars,
it is more expensive. With volume, I bet it is no more than a couple
of hundred bucks per car.


Many operators still use reporting of self determined data subject to
audit. They all use IFTA but if they aren't set up with GPS on each
vehicle tied into a reporting system they total up everything and enter
the miles/state and fuel purchases/state and upload that to IFTA.

As an aside our former governor was a big proponent of making all major
roads part of the PA pike. One of his selling points was the untrue
statement that out of state trucks transiting the state cause the most
damage and they "don't pay anything" even though IFTA has been in place
for a very long time to fairly apportion the collected taxes.


I live in a border town and travel more in the other state than where
my car is registered. With gas, I pay the tax where I buy the fuel.
With electric, I'd pay the tax at home, but wear out the roads
elsewhere.

With an all electric, there should be no smog inspection, but I'm sure
the state will find a way of getting you in to pay the tax.


The obvious solution is to require a GPS on each vehicle and have it log
all activity. Later they could even go further and implement time of day
surcharges and other "features". I am for everyone paying their fair
share but am against that idea because of the massive privacy violation
involved. For some reason I can never understand the republicans would
not have an issue.

Per HeyBub:
How many blind people have been killed or injured by "silent" cars?
Approximately zero.

I cannot cite, but somewhere I read a piece where somebody asked
how a deceased deaf person died. The answer was to the effect of
"They died the same way most deaf people die: hit by a car."

It rang true to me then and now, after being surprised by a few
electric cars while riding my bike, it rings even truer.
--
Pete Cresswell