"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

I went for a month without gas service in Ohio after the old line
ruptured. Nothing but a 500 space heater blowing under the bed at
night. I wouldn't leave it on while I was at work, and I was
working
doubles seven days a week.


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Sounds like that got seriously cold. I sometimes wonder if I should
preheat
my bed with a hair dryer for a few minutes, before climbing in.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about posting protocol.

I got a heated mattress pad for Christmas that still has an effective
preheat setting although it meets the Non-Hazardous UL spec.
jsw

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message

The Maytag's motor requires at least 25A to start. Once running it
draws between 500W and 800W. 3750W should be enough, 31A at 120V,
but
the motor needs its high starting current longer than the generator
can provide it unless I push the motor slide in with my toe to
loosen
the drive belt. ...
jsw

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Did you actually try the 3750 on the washing machine?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about posting protocol

Try rereading what I wrote.

I had to stop the wash cycle before it ended and tried to start up on
spin. Instead I advanced the timer to the final spin cycle so it would
empty the tub and then stop completely when finished. Then I rinsed
the soap out manually with a hose and reran the final spin cycle.
jsw

On Jan 11, 9:03*am, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message

The Maytag's motor requires at least 25A to start. Once running it
draws between 500W and 800W. 3750W should be enough, 31A at 120V,
but
the motor needs its high starting current longer than the generator
can provide it unless I push the motor slide in with my toe to
loosen
the drive belt. ...
jsw
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message

...

Did you actually try the 3750 on the washing machine?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about posting protocol

Try rereading what I wrote.

I had to stop the wash cycle before it ended and tried to start up on
spin. Instead I advanced the timer to the final spin cycle so it would
empty the tub and then stop completely when finished. Then I rinsed
the soap out manually with a hose and reran the final spin cycle.
jsw

I can confirm that experience. Neighbor had a 4500W and the
one load it would not run was the washing machine. It could
handle two modern gas furnaces, 5 fridge/freezers, lights, etc
all at the same time, but not the washing machine. Personally,
I would not even attempt it. Doesn't make a lot of sense to
me to push a generator during an outage when you need it
for furnace, freezers, lights, etc. Seems you should be able
to get by for a week or so without running a wash. And if
you lose the generator you're really screwed.

Also, a big problem with these generators is unless you pay
a lot for say a Honda or Yamaha, you don't know what you got.
The typical ones are made from a variety of Chinese engines
and Chinese generators, with just sheet metal and paint
distinguishing them. They go for mabye $700 for a 5KW.
On the other hand, you could pay $4000 for a Honda with
less output. It comes down to price vs reliability, how
essential it is to you, etc. Best low end strategy is
probably to buy a Briggs and Stratton or Troybilt. Even
though I believe they are still made in China or use
major Chinese components, you have a brand name
company which hopefully means somebody is watching
the quality at least a bit.....

And for washing machines there are other options. During
Sandy, Tide was set up here in NJ at Lowes with a tractor
trailer full of washing machines where you could do your wash.
Apparently they go to disaster areas like this to provide the
service.

On Jan 10, 10:14*pm, jon_banquer wrote:
On Jan 10, 6:44*pm, "
wrote:





On Jan 10, 9:10*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

" wrote:

On Jan 10, 6:21 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" ?
wrote:
? Gunner wrote:
?
? ? On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 13:36:54 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
? ? ? wrote:
?
? ? ?
? ? ?"hr(bob) " wrote:
? ? ??
? ? ?? 15 KW is absurdly oversize for a single-family dwelling, except
? ? ?? perhaps for northern Alaska, unless the OP plans on serving his entire
? ? ?? neighborhood. *In that case, he should be worrying about the size of
? ? ?? the conductors he will be running across lawns and streets.
? ? ?
? ? ?
? ? ? * 62.5 A is absurdly oversize? Not if you have electric heat, or need
? ? ?air conditioning for a whole house in the south.
?
? ? Excellent point indeed.
?
? * *200A is the standard electrical service around here.

Which has little to do with what one needs for an emergency
generator. *It's not the service that counts. *It's what you chose
to have powered during a power loss.

* *Some people can live with a candle under an overpass, too.

* I have 200A. *I did fine with a 6KW. * A friend has 300A.

* *Whoopee. I had over a megawatt at the last tower site I worked at. *A
half meg was for one station, the other was five FM stations, the
forestry service, 60 trunked radio base stations and the FBI's regional
base stations. *We kept over a week's supply of diesel on hand at all
times.

Gee, and here the rest of us thought we were talking about
an emergency generator for a house.

*He got by fine with a 4500KW
generator during Sandy. *Enough to run two furnaces,
3 refrigerator/freezers, and lights. *But then I guess some
people need to run all that, plus the jacuzzi, all the ovens, AC,
etc, all at the same time.

* *Some people have more needs than others, but an asshole like you just
likes to damn them. *Try having elderly, ill relatives in the home.
More than one.

They each need a seperate furnace? *Appliances? *Sump
pump?

*Hell, why not run the furnace and AC at the same time too.

* *You're the only one who is stupid enough to do that in a home, but
it's done for humidity control in some commercial buildings.

I've seen homes with electric start power plants that will provide
? 400A 208 three phase.

Sure you have.

* *yawn................... *I repaired the controls after a lightning
strike, repaired their gate controls, installed a new master TV antenna
system and their C-band Satellite TV system. *I guess that you've never
know any multi millionares with a nice home.

Having joined a major silicon valley company in the
early 80s, and spent 17 years there, I know quite a few.
*I know one really, really well.

Or were trusted enough to
be on their property.

Now we're getting to your pay grade.

**The last I heard was that they had closed the

nursery and were cleaning the land to build 500 new homes, self
financed. *Well, it looks like the widow sold the land to Centrex after
he died:

http://www.centex.com/communities/fl/mt-dora/sullivan-ranch-60s/51349...

* *He and his wife also owned the number one country nightclub in
Orlando for a couple decades:

Wow! *They owned a whole frigging country nightclub in Orlando?
Why didn't you say so sooner? * * Now I'm
really impressed! *Is that what needed 400 amps in an outage?
To run that big old honking disco ball?

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1998-10-31/business/9810301044_1_...

? They also had diesel powered water pumps for each of the 14" water wells
? for their nursery that they would fire up during power outages.

A home with a 400A service, nursery and multiple 14" wells with diesel
pumps? * *Around here we call that a business or a farm, not a
residence.

* *Actually, it was a private residence that was next door to a few
thousand acre nursery. *Both had their own electric services & wells.
The house was three story and had an elevator that ran on three phase..
Let's see you run that with your toy.

LOL. *You must think we're really dumb here.
We have residences around here that are three story
and have an elevator. *And let
me assure you, it does not take a 400A, three phase service
to run an elevator, fool. *In fact, they don't require anything
extraordinary at all. *Nothing more than a stove or central
AC. * You really don't have a grasp on power issues at all,
do you? *But feel free to keep digging yourself a deeper
hole. *It's amusing.

*They also had six other houses on
the property that existed when they bought other large farms. *Each of
those had their own electric service as well. *They were all rented by
people who worked at their nursery.

Who the hell cares. * Just further proof that you've commingled a
business, multiple residences and God knows what else
into one abortion, then pretend a house needs 400A three phase.

What a marooon!

"Wow! *They owned a whole frigging country nightclub in Orlando?"

Read the article and check where out where the country nightclub
Terrell is bragging about is located:

Any idea how bad South Orange Blossom Trail in Orlando is?

This pretty well sums it up:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...ossom%20trail- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

LOL. That's a hoot. And about that he's bragging? That 400A
three phase must have been to light up all the red lights and the
disco ball.

wrote in message
...
On Jan 11, 9:03 am, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
...
I can confirm that experience. Neighbor had a 4500W and the
one load it would not run was the washing machine. It could
handle two modern gas furnaces, 5 fridge/freezers, lights, etc
all at the same time, but not the washing machine. Personally,
I would not even attempt it. Doesn't make a lot of sense to
me to push a generator during an outage when you need it
for furnace, freezers, lights, etc. Seems you should be able
to get by for a week or so without running a wash. And if
you lose the generator you're really screwed.

My strategy is to have spares of the few things I really need. I have
a small, noisy Kohler generator that is one-hand portable up a ladder,
a 1600W one that's two-hand portable for short distances, and the 3750
Coleman that I can barely lift into the car. All were used, cheap, and
ran enough to show they were repairable. I didn't realize how much
stuff Americans dump into landfills until I lived in Germany, where
they don't create 1/4 as much trash.

I tested the Coleman for max capacity on a nice sunny day with no
storms predicted. It will run my window air conditioner as long as the
A/C can cycle normally. The starting load is too much when I don't
wait long enough for the pressure to drop after shutting it off.
Likewise I have to loosen the head outlet pipe on my 1/2HP air
compressor to let the generator start it.
jsw

On Jan 11, 1:01*am, "Existential Angst" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jan 10, 1:36 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

"hr(bob) " wrote:

15 KW is absurdly oversize for a single-family dwelling, except
perhaps for northern Alaska, unless the OP plans on serving his entire
neighborhood. In that case, he should be worrying about the size of
the conductors he will be running across lawns and streets.

62.5 A is absurdly oversize? Not if you have electric heat, or need
air conditioning for a whole house in the south. Ny neighbors have an
18 KW propane generator, but they are too cheap to have the tank filled..

The location in the discussion thread is NYC. * If he has electric
heat
there, which I don't believe is the case since he has nat gas, then
*electric heat is a problem of it's own that needs fixing. *Who in
their
right mind would size an emergency generator to run electric heat
for a house?

AC could be an issue, but it's not as vital in most cases as heat is.
And instead of spending buckoo bucks on a big honking genset, it
might be better to buy a window AC for $100 for an emergency, no?
I would think most people can get by with a lot less during an
extended
outage, instead of trying to power life as usual.
=================================================

Don't forget, this is a LARGE house, with a fair-sized shop, with
bigger-than-avg equipment.

In another post, I did address the "life-as-usual" issue, and have made
reference numerous times to the "gamble" of choosing a wattage for a
generator. * I freely admit to being really spooked by Sandy, and proly
over-bought as a result, but it may pay off in the next power event, ESP.
shop-wise. *As I pointed out, shop-wise, I will be shedding loads like
crazy, depending on what I'm running, even with 15 kW..

Also, ito of gas draw, I did some inneresting experiments that I'll post on
separately. *But here, just note that just because the motor is 22 hp, 15
kW, dudn't mean it's ALWAYS sucking up 22 hp worth of gas -- it will RARELY
do that.
Just like a 300 hp car is using only 15 hp cruising at 60 mph on level
highway -- the SAME hp, btw, that a 100 hp car is using, on the same
highway. *The demand for the full 300 hp is very rare.... *unless you are a
drug dealer....

At lower power demands, or idle, it will indeed be using more no-load gas
consumption than a smaller genset, but proly not a biggie, and certainly not
a gas service issue.

Bottom line is, you pay one way or the other.

Another way to have gone was to have STAGED generators -- bitty ones for
light stuff, with bigger ones coming on for heavier stuff. *I was even
considering a smaller dedicated generator just for the cycling air
compressor, as that gives the system a bit of a shock. *We'll see how stable
this genset is with cycling loads like that.

As far as operating it inside, portability and all that, it IS portable, now
that it's on a dolly.....
And I'm keeping it inside for now mostly for experiments and the monthly 10
min run -- I can easily move it outside for protracted runs. This unit is
not much heavier than, say, the 8,750 W Black Max at Sam's club.
Plus, I will be monitoring *CO closely, to assess the practical viability
and safety of running it inside. *More on that in another post, really some
inneresting stuff.
But moving it, running it outside is no big deal.

Bottom line, 15 kW isn't as much as you think -- see my other post on this.
And it's all a gamble, anyway. *Just too much crazy weather going on around
here, too much nail-biting. *So ahm broke now, and may never even use this
thing, but at least my nails will grow back.
--
EA

"I freely admit to being really spooked by Sandy, and proly
over-bought as a result, but it may pay off in the next power event,
ESP.
shop-wise. As I pointed out, shop-wise, I will be shedding loads like
crazy, depending on what I'm running, even with 15 kW.. "

No way do I think you over-bought.

What about running generators in parallel?

I found this:

http://www.woodward.com/egcp2.aspx

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Sounds like that got seriously cold.


It was about 20 degrees in the house till I got the new gas service I
installed inspected and my service turned back on.


I sometimes wonder if I should preheat
my bed with a hair dryer for a few minutes, before climbing in.


Only if you mean in the open, under the bed and not close to carpet
od the box springs.


I had a similar moment when the draft inducer fan in my furnace wore out.
Wore right through the side of the housing, a sight to see. Anyhow. I tried
to heat for a couple days with gas range burners, and electric heaters. Not
very successful, for sure.

Jim Wilkins wrote:

? "Michael A. Terrell" ? wrote in message
? m...
?
? I went for a month without gas service in Ohio after the old line
? ruptured. Nothing but a 500 space heater blowing under the bed at
? night. I wouldn't leave it on while I was at work, and I was
? working
? doubles seven days a week.
?
?
"Stormin Mormon" ? wrote in message
...
? Sounds like that got seriously cold. I sometimes wonder if I should
? preheat
? my bed with a hair dryer for a few minutes, before climbing in.
?
? Christopher A. Young
? Learn more about posting protocol.

I got a heated mattress pad for Christmas that still has an effective
preheat setting although it meets the Non-Hazardous UL spec.


I have to sleep in a hospital bed these days, and have trouble
keeping sheets on the bed at night because my feet are 24 inches above
my back. I bet I'd slide right into the floor with another layer.

Sounds like that got seriously cold.


It was about 20 degrees in the house till I got the new gas service I
installed inspected and my service turned back on.
CY: I'd call that cold. I've been in houses that were in the 40s indoors,
but that's colder than that. Guess I was in one which had the pipes freeze.

mes wonder if I should preheat
my bed with a hair dryer for a few minutes, before climbing in.


Only if you mean in the open, under the bed and not close to carpet
od the box springs.
CY: No, I was thinking to lift the blankets about six inches,and stick my
arm in with a hair dryer in hand. Four or five seconds, there abouts.

I had a similar moment when the draft inducer fan in my furnace wore out.
Wore right through the side of the housing, a sight to see. Anyhow. I
tried
to heat for a couple days with gas range burners, and electric heaters.
Not
very successful, for sure.

CY:I had a warm kitchen ceiling, but not much else was warm.

That's got to do strange things for your circulation
and your pulmonary, also.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...


I got a heated mattress pad for Christmas that still has an effective
preheat setting although it meets the Non-Hazardous UL spec.


I have to sleep in a hospital bed these days, and have trouble
keeping sheets on the bed at night because my feet are 24 inches above
my back. I bet I'd slide right into the floor with another layer.

" wrote:

jon_banquer wrote:
?
? "Wow! They owned a whole frigging country nightclub in Orlando?"
?
? Read the article and check where out where the country nightclub
? Terrell is bragging about is located:
?
? Any idea how bad South Orange Blossom Trail in Orlando is?
?
? This pretty well sums it up:
?
? http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...ossom%20trail- Hide quoted text -


LOL. That's a hoot. And about that he's bragging? That 400A
three phase must have been to light up all the red lights and the
disco ball.


Just because you live in a whorehouse with your mother doesn't mean
everyone has, or wants disco balls and red lights. Jon ignores the fact
that the SOBT is the main road through Orlando and has been 1926 It has
changed a lot since 1998, and not all of it for the better. The whores
disappeared after the naval Training Cernter was closed, but there are
still places you two would hang out. Bob Sullivan would have tossed you
or the CNC closet queen out on your asses. It wasn't a redneck bar or a
gay bar, and a lot of well known country artists used to perform there.
Not that either of you rednecks would know the difference.

Sullivan's Trailway Lounge' was a well known place, and had a lot of
people visiting Orlando from around the world. He was a singer and
opened the place because there was no other place in Orlando that
featured live country music. When it opened in 1969 Orlando was still a
backwards little hick town and 441 was covered with cheap motels for
families heading to Miami for vacation. he had retired from the club
when I knew him, and he had nothing to do with running it. He lived an
hours drive from it, and his other business interests were taking too
much of his time.

You idiots really need to learn the facts before you two douse
yourself in gasoline and play Maroon Roulette with cheap Chinese
lighters.


441 dates back to 1926, and was one of the early roads that was
designated a highways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ays_in_Florida

You two just love to show your ignorance.

On Jan 11, 3:01*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
" wrote:

jon_banquer *wrote:
?
? "Wow! *They owned a whole frigging country nightclub in Orlando?"
?
? Read the article and check where out where the country nightclub
? Terrell is bragging about is located:
?
? Any idea how bad South Orange Blossom Trail in Orlando is?
?
? This pretty well sums it up:
?
?http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...m%20trail-Hide quoted text -

LOL. * That's a hoot. *And about that he's bragging? *That 400A
three phase must have been to light up all the red lights and the
disco ball.

* *Just because you live in a whorehouse with your mother doesn't mean
everyone has, or wants disco balls and red lights. *Jon ignores the fact
that the SOBT is the main road through Orlando and has been 1926 *It has
changed a lot since 1998, and not all of it for the better. *The whores
disappeared after the naval Training Cernter was closed, but there are
still places you two would hang out. *Bob Sullivan would have tossed you
or the CNC closet queen out on your asses. *It wasn't a redneck bar or a
gay bar, and a lot of well known country artists used to perform there.
Not that either of you rednecks would know the difference.

* *Sullivan's Trailway Lounge' was a well known place, and had a lot of
people visiting Orlando from around the world. *He was a singer and
opened the place because there was no other place in Orlando that
featured live country music. *When it opened in 1969 Orlando was still a
backwards little hick town and 441 was covered with cheap motels for
families heading to Miami for vacation. he had retired from the club
when I knew him, and he had nothing to do with running it. *He lived an
hours drive from it, and his other business interests were taking too
much of his time.

* *You idiots really need to learn the facts before you two douse
yourself in gasoline and play Maroon Roulette with cheap Chinese
lighters.

* *441 dates back to 1926, and was one of the early roads that was
designated a highways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ays_in_Florida

* *You two just love to show your ignorance.

Speaking of ignorance and incompetence did you finally fix those badly
leaking roofs yet, Terrell?

The truth about Orlando's Orange Blossom Trail rather than the lies
Terrell is so well known for:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...92675.htmlpage

"Hot Spots: Most Orlando-area murders take place west of Interstate 4
and along Orange Blossom Trail."

Stormin Mormon wrote:

That's got to do strange things for your circulation
and your pulmonary, also.


It relieves the swelling that occurs when I'm not in bed. It also
causes my kidneys to work harder to remove the excess fluid, and several
trips to the bathroom to keep my bladder from escaping during the night.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

?
? Sounds like that got seriously cold.

It was about 20 degrees in the house till I got the new gas service I
installed inspected and my service turned back on.
CY: I'd call that cold. I've been in houses that were in the 40s indoors,
but that's colder than that. Guess I was in one which had the pipes freeze.


I had no water at that time, because the old galvanized pipe sheared
off at a coupling while digging up the gas line.


mes wonder if I should preheat
? my bed with a hair dryer for a few minutes, before climbing in.

Only if you mean in the open, under the bed and not close to carpet
od the box springs.
CY: No, I was thinking to lift the blankets about six inches,and stick my
arm in with a hair dryer in hand. Four or five seconds, there abouts.


The heat would escape, uless there was so little space that you could
burn the sheets from the hot air. I wouldn't do it. Toss an electric
blanket on top and run it for 15 minutes before you crawl in. A lot
safer, and makes the whole bed warm for you.

On 1/11/2013 9:03 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:

That's got to do strange things for your circulation
and your pulmonary, also.


It relieves the swelling that occurs when I'm not in bed. It also
causes my kidneys to work harder to remove the excess fluid, and several
trips to the bathroom to keep my bladder from escaping during the night.



Have you measured your urine output? My doctor had me keep track of mine
and it averaged 2gal a day. I have a couple of those graduated
urinal bottles that you get at the hospital. Every time Mr. Bladder
woke me up last night it was 500cc/16oz. In 2011 I wound up in the
hospital with pneumonia and after getting home I couldn't seem to get
better then one day I started swelling up. It started in my legs and
crept up to the middle of my abdomen until it looked like I was wearing
clown pants, I also had fluid in my lungs. I called my doctor friend,
told I had tried my roommate's diuretic which had been proscribed for
me before and it helped. I discussed with the doctor what dosages I
needed, he called it in and I started taking a double dose of HCTZ and
Lisinopril which caused me to drop 50lbs in two weeks, over 60lbs in the
month. It was all fluid and my blood pressure dropped so low I was
getting dizzy. My blood pressure tested perfect for a skinny 16 year old
schoolgirl. My BP was so low I had to be careful how fast I stood up. ^_^

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 1/11/2013 9:03 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
?
? Stormin Mormon wrote:
??
?? That's got to do strange things for your circulation
?? and your pulmonary, also.
?
?
? It relieves the swelling that occurs when I'm not in bed. It also
? causes my kidneys to work harder to remove the excess fluid, and several
? trips to the bathroom to keep my bladder from escaping during the night.
?
?

Have you measured your urine output?

Usually around three liters a day in summer, less in winter. I've
had the problem for about 10 years now.

My doctor had me keep track of mine
and it averaged 2gal a day. I have a couple of those graduated
urinal bottles that you get at the hospital. Every time Mr. Bladder
woke me up last night it was 500cc/16oz. In 2011 I wound up in the
hospital with pneumonia and after getting home I couldn't seem to get
better then one day I started swelling up. It started in my legs and
crept up to the middle of my abdomen until it looked like I was wearing
clown pants, I also had fluid in my lungs. I called my doctor friend,
told I had tried my roommate's diuretic which had been proscribed for
me before and it helped. I discussed with the doctor what dosages I
needed, he called it in and I started taking a double dose of HCTZ and
Lisinopril which caused me to drop 50lbs in two weeks, over 60lbs in the
month. It was all fluid and my blood pressure dropped so low I was
getting dizzy. My blood pressure tested perfect for a skinny 16 year old
schoolgirl.


As long as you don't dress like a skinny, 16 year old schoolgirl. ;-)


My BP was so low I had to be careful how fast I stood up. ^_^



Some days I think I need to get a lift chair. The damn computer desk
chairs are the worst. All of them are too low and I have a hell of a
time standing most days. The thick hospital bed mattress is about
right, but two inches higher would help.

Sounds like you just can't win, some times. Elevated legs for edema, but
resulting in kidney action.

Ah, well. I sleep horizontal, but that doesn't seem to give me a full night
sleep without the kidney action. Maybe just as well, gives me a chance to
look for burglars and roof leaks dripping in.

I wonder if infants have it better than we do, sleep all night and someone
changes the diaper in the morning. I'd not want to go back to infancy, I
enjoy my time on the computer, and being able to drive the car. And that
oochy koochy goochy woo routine really got tired in a hurry.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Stormin Mormon wrote:

That's got to do strange things for your circulation
and your pulmonary, also.


It relieves the swelling that occurs when I'm not in bed. It also
causes my kidneys to work harder to remove the excess fluid, and several
trips to the bathroom to keep my bladder from escaping during the night.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
CY: Wow, what a case of thread drift! I guess we're still talking about
pressure drops, and pipe lengths? How long is a ureter, anyhow?

?
? Sounds like that got seriously cold.
CY: I guess Ohio gets cold, too? I know NYS gets down near zero, sometimes.


It was about 20 degrees in the house till I got the new gas service I
installed inspected and my service turned back on.
CY: I'd call that cold. I've been in houses that were in the 40s indoors,
but that's colder than that. Guess I was in one which had the pipes
freeze.


I had no water at that time, because the old galvanized pipe sheared
off at a coupling while digging up the gas line.
CY: Well, that's two utilities lost. That's even more rough.

mes wonder if I should preheat
? my bed with a hair dryer for a few minutes, before climbing in.

Only if you mean in the open, under the bed and not close to carpet
od the box springs.
CY: No, I was thinking to lift the blankets about six inches,and stick my
arm in with a hair dryer in hand. Four or five seconds, there abouts.


The heat would escape, uless there was so little space that you could
burn the sheets from the hot air. I wouldn't do it. Toss an electric
blanket on top and run it for 15 minutes before you crawl in. A lot
safer, and makes the whole bed warm for you.
CY: Hair dryer, I've already got one. Electric blanket means go out and buy
one. Bit of a difference, there. Due to the economy, and the last
administration (2008-2012) the way they screwed up so badly, I'm not
spending money if I can help it.

Sounds like you'd want to keep and eye on three data points. Fluid input,
output, and body weight. Of course, some fluid is lost through perspiration
and respiration, but the rest is either edema or urinary output.

Type of beverage would make a difference, water versus orange juice versus
beer, versus coffee, or red wine. Some are "water negative" diuretic.

Figured it's time for a subject line change.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...


Have you measured your urine output? My doctor had me keep track of mine
and it averaged 2gal a day. I have a couple of those graduated
urinal bottles that you get at the hospital. Every time Mr. Bladder
woke me up last night it was 500cc/16oz. In 2011 I wound up in the
hospital with pneumonia and after getting home I couldn't seem to get
better then one day I started swelling up. It started in my legs and
crept up to the middle of my abdomen until it looked like I was wearing
clown pants, I also had fluid in my lungs. I called my doctor friend,
told I had tried my roommate's diuretic which had been proscribed for
me before and it helped. I discussed with the doctor what dosages I
needed, he called it in and I started taking a double dose of HCTZ and
Lisinopril which caused me to drop 50lbs in two weeks, over 60lbs in the
month. It was all fluid and my blood pressure dropped so low I was
getting dizzy. My blood pressure tested perfect for a skinny 16 year old
schoolgirl. My BP was so low I had to be careful how fast I stood up. ^_^

TDD

How'd you deal with the 20 degrees indoors? IIRC you said no water, so that
makes it challenging to take a hot shower, flush the toilet, cook food, make
coffee, and all the things men hold dear.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Stormin Mormon wrote:

?
? Sounds like that got seriously cold.

It was about 20 degrees in the house till I got the new gas service I
installed inspected and my service turned back on.
CY: I'd call that cold. I've been in houses that were in the 40s indoors,
but that's colder than that. Guess I was in one which had the pipes
freeze.


I had no water at that time, because the old galvanized pipe sheared
off at a coupling while digging up the gas line.

On Jan 11, 10:45*am, jon_banquer wrote:
What about running generators in parallel?

I found this:

http://www.woodward.com/egcp2.aspx

Bump

Stormin Mormon wrote:

How'd you deal with the 20 degrees indoors? IIRC you said no water, so that
makes it challenging to take a hot shower, flush the toilet, cook food, make
coffee, and all the things men hold dear.


Sponge bath at work, and an electric razor. Thank God that 24 hour
grocery and department stores were becoming common in the mid '80s

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Stormin Mormon wrote:

How'd you deal with the 20 degrees indoors? IIRC you said no water,
so that
makes it challenging to take a hot shower, flush the toilet, cook
food, make
coffee, and all the things men hold dear.


Sponge bath at work, and an electric razor. Thank God that 24
hour
grocery and department stores were becoming common in the mid '80s

Somehow humanity survived like that for millennia, and campers and
soldiers still do today. When we were on winter field exercises we
went in once a week for a shower and laundry. In cold weather that was
enough as our skin stayed dry. Life becomes very simple when you can
ignore food spoilage and the frills of civilization.

Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" ? wrote in message
...
?
? Stormin Mormon wrote:
??
?? How'd you deal with the 20 degrees indoors? IIRC you said no water,
?? so that
?? makes it challenging to take a hot shower, flush the toilet, cook
?? food, make
?? coffee, and all the things men hold dear.
?
?
? Sponge bath at work, and an electric razor. Thank God that 24
? hour
? grocery and department stores were becoming common in the mid '80s

Somehow humanity survived like that for millennia, and campers and
soldiers still do today. When we were on winter field exercises we
went in once a week for a shower and laundry. In cold weather that was
enough as our skin stayed dry. Life becomes very simple when you can
ignore food spoilage and the frills of civilization.


The local Freecycle has people begging for space heaters, claiming
they can't afford to buy them. If they can't afford $20 for a heater,
how can they pay to run the damned things? One woman was complaining
that her kids couldn't stand the 65 degrees in their room. Buy a
blanket, and get on with life.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message

The local Freecycle has people begging for space heaters, claiming
they can't afford to buy them. If they can't afford $20 for a
heater,
how can they pay to run the damned things? One woman was
complaining
that her kids couldn't stand the 65 degrees in their room. Buy a
blanket, and get on with life.

Perhaps their utility has Lifeline rules that they can't be shut off
during winter.

My house hasn't been up to 65F in months. It didn't occur to me that
driving with the window open in winter was unusual until I started
giving someone a ride to work.
jsw

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:57:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" ? wrote in message
...
?
? Stormin Mormon wrote:
??
?? How'd you deal with the 20 degrees indoors? IIRC you said no water,
?? so that
?? makes it challenging to take a hot shower, flush the toilet, cook
?? food, make
?? coffee, and all the things men hold dear.
?
?
? Sponge bath at work, and an electric razor. Thank God that 24
? hour
? grocery and department stores were becoming common in the mid '80s

Somehow humanity survived like that for millennia, and campers and
soldiers still do today. When we were on winter field exercises we
went in once a week for a shower and laundry. In cold weather that was
enough as our skin stayed dry. Life becomes very simple when you can
ignore food spoilage and the frills of civilization.


The local Freecycle has people begging for space heaters, claiming
they can't afford to buy them. If they can't afford $20 for a heater,
how can they pay to run the damned things? One woman was complaining
that her kids couldn't stand the 65 degrees in their room. Buy a
blanket, and get on with life.


Booze or crack expenses really eat up those heater dollars.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

"Jim Wilkins" on Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:56:47
-0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Stormin Mormon wrote:

How'd you deal with the 20 degrees indoors? IIRC you said no water,
so that
makes it challenging to take a hot shower, flush the toilet, cook
food, make
coffee, and all the things men hold dear.


Sponge bath at work, and an electric razor. Thank God that 24
hour
grocery and department stores were becoming common in the mid '80s

Somehow humanity survived like that for millennia, and campers and
soldiers still do today. When we were on winter field exercises we
went in once a week for a shower and laundry. In cold weather that was
enough as our skin stayed dry. Life becomes very simple when you can
ignore food spoilage and the frills of civilization.

I have a house all of my own. With two bathrooms. On is used for
Storage, the other - well, lets just say the Saturday Night Bath has
long been a staple in my life.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Gunner on Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:25:07 -0800 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:57:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" ? wrote in message
...
?
? Stormin Mormon wrote:
??
?? How'd you deal with the 20 degrees indoors? IIRC you said no water,
?? so that
?? makes it challenging to take a hot shower, flush the toilet, cook
?? food, make
?? coffee, and all the things men hold dear.
?
?
? Sponge bath at work, and an electric razor. Thank God that 24
? hour
? grocery and department stores were becoming common in the mid '80s

Somehow humanity survived like that for millennia, and campers and
soldiers still do today. When we were on winter field exercises we
went in once a week for a shower and laundry. In cold weather that was
enough as our skin stayed dry. Life becomes very simple when you can
ignore food spoilage and the frills of civilization.


The local Freecycle has people begging for space heaters, claiming
they can't afford to buy them. If they can't afford $20 for a heater,
how can they pay to run the damned things? One woman was complaining
that her kids couldn't stand the 65 degrees in their room. Buy a
blanket, and get on with life.

Booze or crack expenses really eat up those heater dollars.

Booze, cigarettes, potatoes chips, soda pop, beer, TV dinners,
cable TV, unlimited Cell phone plans,. Don't forget the three
thousand dollars a month for contraception.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:57:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:





The local Freecycle has people begging for space heaters, claiming
they can't afford to buy them. If they can't afford $20 for a heater,
how can they pay to run the damned things? One woman was complaining
that her kids couldn't stand the 65 degrees in their room. Buy a
blanket, and get on with life.

She should get new kids with better tolerance to low temperatures.
Millions of people in cold climates never get their heat up that high
and never have a problem. 65 is quite tolerable and common in Europe
where energy is very expensive. Put a hat on.

Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" ? wrote in message
?
? The local Freecycle has people begging for space heaters, claiming
? they can't afford to buy them. If they can't afford $20 for a
? heater,
? how can they pay to run the damned things? One woman was
? complaining
? that her kids couldn't stand the 65 degrees in their room. Buy a
? blanket, and get on with life.

Perhaps their utility has Lifeline rules that they can't be shut off
during winter.


They have what is called HEAP, which will help pay a part of the bill
but they are really ignorant about taking care of themselves.


My house hasn't been up to 65F in months. It didn't occur to me that
driving with the window open in winter was unusual until I started
giving someone a ride to work.


I do that, as long as there isn't heavy rain, snow or fog.

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" ? on Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:56:47
-0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
?"Michael A. Terrell" ? wrote in message
...
??
?? Stormin Mormon wrote:
???
??? How'd you deal with the 20 degrees indoors? IIRC you said no water,
??? so that
??? makes it challenging to take a hot shower, flush the toilet, cook
??? food, make
??? coffee, and all the things men hold dear.
??
??
?? Sponge bath at work, and an electric razor. Thank God that 24
?? hour
?? grocery and department stores were becoming common in the mid '80s
?
?Somehow humanity survived like that for millennia, and campers and
?soldiers still do today. When we were on winter field exercises we
?went in once a week for a shower and laundry. In cold weather that was
?enough as our skin stayed dry. Life becomes very simple when you can
?ignore food spoilage and the frills of civilization.

I have a house all of my own. With two bathrooms. On is used for
Storage, the other - well, lets just say the Saturday Night Bath has
long been a staple in my life.


Aren't those staples painful? Especially when one pulls out?

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

pyotr filipivich wrote:
I have a house all of my own. With two bathrooms. On is
used for
Storage, the other - well, lets just say the Saturday Night Bath
has
long been a staple in my life.

Aren't those staples painful? Especially when one pulls out?

This is Summer Glau as a Terminator who repaired her bomb-damaged
cheek with a staple gun:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2...n987o1_500.png

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
...
On Jan 11, 10:45 am, jon_banquer wrote:
What about running generators in parallel?

I found this:

http://www.woodward.com/egcp2.aspx

Bump
================================================== ==

Amazing if this thing actually works. I basically understand the net
result: the gen rotational speed must be kept absolutely in sync, but wow,
how this is actually accomplished is beyond me.

But, I guess it's also done "on the Grid", right? When you sell power back
to the utility, your power can't be out of phase with utility power, or
you'd have a dead short. Solar stuff, which uses a solid state inverter,
proly does this relatively automatically.
AND, various substations in the grid have to be in sync.... but they don't
use inverters, afaik

BeatsTF out of me.... a good Q for a sep. thread.
--
EA

Yes, that sounds like you had some local resources. Not homeless, but some
of the same concept.

I've wondered how urban homeless make do. I'm sure I don't want to try it.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Sponge bath at work, and an electric razor. Thank God that 24 hour
grocery and department stores were becoming common in the mid '80s

Some folks on public aid, the taxpayer pays
the electric bill. The heater comes out of thier
cash grant, which they are trying to save,
cause cable TV, beer and cigs are so expensive.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

The local Freecycle has people begging for space heaters, claiming
they can't afford to buy them. If they can't afford $20 for a heater,
how can they pay to run the damned things? One woman was complaining
that her kids couldn't stand the 65 degrees in their room. Buy a
blanket, and get on with life.

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:51:55 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

pyotr filipivich wrote:
I have a house all of my own. With two bathrooms. On is
used for
Storage, the other - well, lets just say the Saturday Night Bath
has
long been a staple in my life.

Aren't those staples painful? Especially when one pulls out?

This is Summer Glau as a Terminator who repaired her bomb-damaged
cheek with a staple gun:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2...n987o1_500.png

What movie was that from? I dont recognize her.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

Trade in African and beaner kids, and
buy some Norwegian kids?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

She should get new kids with better tolerance to low temperatures.
Millions of people in cold climates never get their heat up that high
and never have a problem. 65 is quite tolerable and common in Europe
where energy is very expensive. Put a hat on.

I've known of welfare types and foster kids to max up the heat, and regulate
the room temp by opening windows. Seriously.

I know of one foster mom, her 15 y.o. foster girl did that, with electric
baseboard heat. The foster mom didn't know till the $800 electric bill
arrived. This about 15 or 20 years ago.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...


Perhaps their utility has Lifeline rules that they can't be shut off
during winter.


They have what is called HEAP, which will help pay a part of the bill
but they are really ignorant about taking care of themselves.

The bath isn't too bad, but the 50 pound bags of rice hurt.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

pyotr filipivich wrote:


I have a house all of my own. With two bathrooms. On is used for
Storage, the other - well, lets just say the Saturday Night Bath has
long been a staple in my life.


Aren't those staples painful? Especially when one pulls out?