I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

I went online tonight to put a hold on a book at the library. The
library is using the first 4 numbers of my SSN in their "primary
identification" field.

That seems like a violation of security to me.

On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:27:55 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.


How would she get SS credits, otherwise?

I went online tonight to put a hold on a book at the library. The
library is using the first 4 numbers of my SSN in their "primary
identification" field.

That seems like a violation of security to me.

Why? A bank account or real estate transaction requires a SS number.

It does say on the SS card - not to be used for identification or
words similar.

Never heard of asking for the first four numbers. Years ago, maybe
not today, the first three numbers did identify which state the SS
number was issued.

A guy at work showed me how to tell my SS number from my driver's
license number. Forget the method, but he was dead-nut on.

On 12/4/2012 5:27 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

I went online tonight to put a hold on a book at the library. The
library is using the first 4 numbers of my SSN in their "primary
identification" field.

That seems like a violation of security to me.

There are lots of privacy issues.
Some have argued that federal law prohibits using the SSN for other
purposes.
But it's a very convenient unique identifier that separates you from
that other John Smith. Do you really want his arrest record coming up
when they check you out?

On Dec 4, 8:27*pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. *She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. *She is between jobs. *One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. *Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

How is a prospective employer supposed to do
any kind of background checks without even a
SS #? It's typically asked for when applying for a
loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit,
etc. So, I don't see the issue as being unique
or unreasonable in regard to employment.





I went online tonight to put a hold on a book at the library. *The
library is using the first 4 numbers of my SSN in their "primary
identification" field.

That seems like a violation of security to me.

It seems kind of odd and dumb to me too. But I
don't think anyone is gonna get far with 4 digits..

Metspitzer wrote:

she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some
serious damage with your SSN

They want it to run a credit-check on her - get her credit score.

Either that, or a criminal background check.

Here is what I found on-line:

------------
It might cost you the employment opportunity, but I would write "SSN
available upon job offer" in that space. They will need the SSN if they
do background checks, so you will need to provide it for the background
checks if they make an offer. I would prefer to keep that number safe
until hired, but it is not always possible.
------------

Seeing as this is probably for a teaching job, the SSN is probably
needed for a criminal background check.

Other times, probably for credit check - no employer wants to hire
someone who's a financial basket-case.

By the way, I fixed your subject line.

wrote in message
...
On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

How is a prospective employer supposed to do
any kind of background checks without even a
SS #? It's typically asked for when applying for a
loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit,
etc. So, I don't see the issue as being unique
or unreasonable in regard to employment.

Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all require
financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to check
credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible person so
they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to do a
job. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the employer to
ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an
employer to seek SSN....period.

On Tue, 4 Dec 2012 21:30:05 -0500, "Meanie" wrote:

There is no need for an
employer to seek SSN....period.

Are you absolutely certain about that?!

I disagree. Plenty of reasons for them to ask for the SSN.

Oren wrote:

On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:27:55 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.


How would she get SS credits, otherwise?

Application, vs. new hire paperwork. It really shouldn't be required
until you are in the process of being hired, not just applying. That
said, in this age of background checks and whatnot, it may be to your
benefit to provide it if you have a name that is shared by others in the
country to help avoid being confused with that person on such background
checks. Legally they are required to inform you if something bad comes
up on a background check and give you an opportunity to contest it, but
a great many employers violate that law.

On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:48:02 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Oren wrote:

On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:27:55 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.


How would she get SS credits, otherwise?

Application, vs. new hire paperwork. It really shouldn't be required
until you are in the process of being hired, not just applying. That
said, in this age of background checks and whatnot, it may be to your
benefit to provide it if you have a name that is shared by others in the
country to help avoid being confused with that person on such background
checks. Legally they are required to inform you if something bad comes
up on a background check and give you an opportunity to contest it, but
a great many employers violate that law.

My wife does volunteer work for a local police department. They ran
here name and found a person with same name committed a bank robbery.

They got it sorted out, but still required her SSN.

Metspitzer wrote:
I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

I went online tonight to put a hold on a book at the library. The
library is using the first 4 numbers of my SSN in their "primary
identification" field.

That seems like a violation of security to me.

May be, but it's the law.

"U.S. law requires companies to employ only individuals who may legally work
in the United States - either U.S. citizens, or foreign citizens who have
the necessary authorization ... E-Verify is an Internet-based system that
allows businesses to determine the eligibility of their employees to work in
the United States."

In other words, U.S. law says that only certain people can legally work in
the U.S. and the approved way to ascertain that is to check the proffered
SSN with the government.

On Tue, 4 Dec 2012 21:30:05 -0500, "Meanie" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

How is a prospective employer supposed to do
any kind of background checks without even a
SS #? It's typically asked for when applying for a
loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit,
etc. So, I don't see the issue as being unique
or unreasonable in regard to employment.

Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all require
financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to check
credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible person so
they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to do a
job. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the employer to
ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an
employer to seek SSN....period.

No need for the PROSPECTIVE employer to have your SSN - but once you
are hired he needs it for with-holding taxes etc.
A hotel, car rental, library, credit card company, bank, or anyone NOT
directly involved in my "social security" does NOT get my number - and
is told in no uncertain terms that asking for it is treading on thin
ice.

On Tue, 4 Dec 2012 21:30:05 -0500, "Meanie" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

How is a prospective employer supposed to do
any kind of background checks without even a
SS #? It's typically asked for when applying for a
loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit,
etc. So, I don't see the issue as being unique
or unreasonable in regard to employment.

Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all require
financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to check
credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible person so
they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to do a
job. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the employer to
ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an
employer to seek SSN....period.

Many would disagree with you. Bad credit shows sloppiness, at least.
I wouldn't hire anyone with crappy credit for a position where any
trust was needed. BTW, you don't think a SSN is needed for tax
reasons? boggle

On 12/4/2012 8:30 PM, Meanie wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

How is a prospective employer supposed to do
any kind of background checks without even a
SS #? It's typically asked for when applying for a
loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit,
etc. So, I don't see the issue as being unique
or unreasonable in regard to employment.

Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all require
financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to check
credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible person so
they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to do a
job. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the employer to
ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an
employer to seek SSN....period.


I am retired now but one of the first things that we did when someone
applied for employment was to run their SS# against the ones that were
already on file for current employees. You might find it surprising but
several times that SS# was already being used by one of our employees.
We then had to find out if the current employee was the actual owner of
that SS# or if the applicant was or neither of them was.

On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 22:41:56 -0500, wrote:




They need the SSN to run the E verify and fill out the I-9

Right, but they don't need that until a job offer is made and
accepted.

On Tue, 4 Dec 2012 21:04:35 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:




May be, but it's the law.

"U.S. law requires companies to employ only individuals who may legally work
in the United States - either U.S. citizens, or foreign citizens who have
the necessary authorization ... E-Verify is an Internet-based system that
allows businesses to determine the eligibility of their employees to work in
the United States."

In other words, U.S. law says that only certain people can legally work in
the U.S. and the approved way to ascertain that is to check the proffered
SSN with the government.


OK, but if you have 1000 applicants and one finalist to make an offer,
you only need that one number, not all the others that will be sitting
in a file drawer for a long time.

On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 02:17:45 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 23:16:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 22:41:56 -0500, wrote:




They need the SSN to run the E verify and fill out the I-9

Right, but they don't need that until a job offer is made and
accepted.

Why would you bother to offer a job to someone until you found out
they were employable.


I assume every applicant is employable. I may ask a couple of
questions first, check age if they look young. It takes very little
time to verify.

We lose 25% of applicants when we say we will do a drug test. Many
just turn around and walk out the door. There is no need for me to
keep a file full of potential identity theft for no good reason.

On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 02:21:14 -0500, wrote:




OK, but if you have 1000 applicants and one finalist to make an offer,
you only need that one number, not all the others that will be sitting
in a file drawer for a long time.

Nobody is going to get to the application phase for 1000 prospective
employees to fill one job. You would not even look at that many
resumes. Usually they seldom even consider more than a few, enough to
call them back.

My point is though, you don't need the SS# on the application. Does
not matter if it is 2, 10, 100 or 10,000. Until you have a viable
candidate for the job, you have no need for the SS.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Dec 2012 21:30:05 -0500, "Meanie" wrote:

There is no need for an
employer to seek SSN....period.

Are you absolutely certain about that?!

I disagree. Plenty of reasons for them to ask for the SSN.

....and yet, you're not naming any of them.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Dec 2012 21:30:05 -0500, "Meanie" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

How is a prospective employer supposed to do
any kind of background checks without even a
SS #? It's typically asked for when applying for a
loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit,
etc. So, I don't see the issue as being unique
or unreasonable in regard to employment.

Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all
require
financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to
check
credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible person
so
they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to do
a
job. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the employer
to
ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an
employer to seek SSN....period.

No need for the PROSPECTIVE employer to have your SSN - but once you
are hired he needs it for with-holding taxes etc.
A hotel, car rental, library, credit card company, bank, or anyone NOT
directly involved in my "social security" does NOT get my number - and
is told in no uncertain terms that asking for it is treading on thin
ice.

Agreed. AFTER the hire, it is needed. Prior to, I don't believe it is.

To answer Owen, no, I am not sure bout that. I simply don't find a reason to
request it until an applicant becomes an employee.

As for bad credit indicating sloppy people, I also disagree. Many people
with poor credit history are responsible, just poor money management. I know
several people with this type of history and I can assure you, they aren't
sloppy. IMO, it's similar to the insurance agencies asking the SSN to
determine rates....bull****!

"IGot2P" wrote in message
...
On 12/4/2012 8:30 PM, Meanie wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

How is a prospective employer supposed to do
any kind of background checks without even a
SS #? It's typically asked for when applying for a
loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit,
etc. So, I don't see the issue as being unique
or unreasonable in regard to employment.

Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all
require
financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to
check
credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible person
so
they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to
do a
job. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the employer
to
ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an
employer to seek SSN....period.


I am retired now but one of the first things that we did when someone
applied for employment was to run their SS# against the ones that were
already on file for current employees. You might find it surprising but
several times that SS# was already being used by one of our employees. We
then had to find out if the current employee was the actual owner of that
SS# or if the applicant was or neither of them was.

Now that opens a new light and I can see the reason. BUT, I still can't see
why they cannot wait to do that if/after they hire the person. Yes, it may
avoid a minor hassle of hiring and paperwork, but it isn't difficult, IMO,
to simply move on to the runner up applicant.

"Meanie" wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Dec 2012 21:30:05 -0500, "Meanie" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

How is a prospective employer supposed to do
any kind of background checks without even a
SS #? It's typically asked for when applying for a
loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit,
etc. So, I don't see the issue as being unique
or unreasonable in regard to employment.

Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all
require
financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to
check
credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible person
so
they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to do
a
job. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the employer
to
ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an
employer to seek SSN....period.

No need for the PROSPECTIVE employer to have your SSN - but once you
are hired he needs it for with-holding taxes etc.
A hotel, car rental, library, credit card company, bank, or anyone NOT
directly involved in my "social security" does NOT get my number - and
is told in no uncertain terms that asking for it is treading on thin
ice.

Agreed. AFTER the hire, it is needed. Prior to, I don't believe it is.

To answer Owen, no, I am not sure bout that. I simply don't find a reason to
request it until an applicant becomes an employee.

As for bad credit indicating sloppy people, I also disagree. Many people
with poor credit history are responsible, just poor money management. I know
several people with this type of history and I can assure you, they aren't
sloppy. IMO, it's similar to the insurance agencies asking the SSN to
determine rates....bull****!

I recently requested an auto insurance quote. When he asked for my SS
number I asked him why he needed that.

His answer: "You don't have to give me your SS number if you don't want
to."

I didn't and still got the quote.

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:27:55 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.


How would she get SS credits, otherwise?


This was just for the application, not in the pre-hire phase. My
guess is that they use that to run background checks.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Dec 4, 9:30*pm, "Meanie" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote:

I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

How is a prospective employer supposed to do
any kind of background checks without even a
SS #? *It's typically asked for when applying for a
loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit,
etc. *So, I don't see the issue as being unique
or unreasonable in regard to employment.

Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all require
financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to check
credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible person so
they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to do a
job.

Is that so? So a financial institution, say a bank, doesn't need
to make sure the person they are hiring isn't a felon, convicted
of theft, embezlement? A medical facility doesn't need to make
sure the person they are hiring isn't a violent criminal or murderer?
Would you hire someone to work at a hardware store you
owned without doing a background check? You'd probably be
the first person to sue the hospital if they didn't do a background
check and you were then mistreated.



If anything, the applicant should check the history of the employer to
ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an
employer to seek SSN....period.

I say you run your business and life the way you want to.
Let others run their business and lives the way they want to.
If someone is so upset by the request for a SSN from a
prospective employer, then they can go find a job elsewhere.
It's really that simple.

On Dec 5, 5:52*am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 02:21:14 -0500, wrote:

OK, but if you have 1000 applicants and one finalist to make an offer,
you only need that one number, not all the others that will be sitting
in a file drawer for a long time.

Nobody is going to get to the application phase for 1000 prospective
employees to fill one job. You would not even look at that many
resumes. Usually they seldom even consider more than a few, enough to
call them back.

My point is though, you don't need the SS# on the application. *Does
not matter if it is 2, 10, 100 or 10,000. *Until you have a viable
candidate for the job, you have no need for the SS.

I hope you recogize the need to run background checks to
avoid hiring someone who is a fugitive? Or hiring a guy
convicted of embezlement to be your bookkeeper? Or
a night janitor who is a burglar?

Now, would you rather find that out before making the job
offer, when you can just politely tell them that you filled
the position internally. Or would you prefer to wait until
you tell them they have the job, then ask for the SS#, then
do the check, then have to tell them the specific reason
why they are now not getting the job? How about the
candidate turns out to be an axe murderer or a member
of the Bloods convicted of a drive-by? You want to make
that call?

On 12/4/2012 8:45 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:27:55 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as
a substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One
of the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish
her SSN on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some
serious damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to
have to furnish them for a job application.


How would she get SS credits, otherwise?


The OP was only applying for the job, she hadn't been hired yet. I
agree that there's no need for the SSN on the application as long as the
employer is satisfied that the applicant is legally in the country and
meets the relevant employment criteria. If hired, providing the SSN is
entirely reasonable and necessary.

On Dec 5, 8:39*am, Peter wrote:
On 12/4/2012 8:45 PM, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:27:55 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. *She has worked as
a substitute teacher in several schools. *She is between jobs. *One
of the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish
her SSN on job applications. *Since the wrong person could do some
serious damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to
have to furnish them for a job application.

How would she get SS credits, otherwise?

The OP was only applying for the job, she hadn't been hired yet. *I
agree that there's no need for the SSN on the application as long as the
employer is satisfied that the applicant is legally in the country

How exactly does an employer do that easily without a
SSN?




and
meets the relevant employment criteria.

My employment criteria includes not being a fugitive,
having outstanding warrants, being convicted of
embezlement, etc. How does an employer do that
without a SSN? Throw away the application from
everyone with the same name that comes back with
a background check hit?

DerbyDad03 used improper usenet message composition style by
unnecessarily full-quoting:

I recently requested an auto insurance quote. When he asked for my
SS number I asked him why he needed that.

His answer: "You don't have to give me your SS number if you don't
want to."

I didn't and still got the quote.

He was asking for your SSN because he wanted to run a credit check on
you.

Insurance companies correlate your credit score with your level of
trustworthiness and personal responsibility. Apparently, there are
studies that show a good credit score is correlated with a lower car
accident rate - the theory being that if you are take enough care to
keep your finances in control and have a good credit score, you probably
also excercise that level of control (judgement, etc) in your driving.

On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 23:16:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 22:41:56 -0500, wrote:




They need the SSN to run the E verify and fill out the I-9

Right, but they don't need that until a job offer is made and
accepted.


Exactly... which is why I tell my daughters when taking an interview,
they will supply their SS # upon employment.

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 05:12:37 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 5, 5:52*am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 02:21:14 -0500, wrote:

OK, but if you have 1000 applicants and one finalist to make an offer,
you only need that one number, not all the others that will be sitting
in a file drawer for a long time.

Nobody is going to get to the application phase for 1000 prospective
employees to fill one job. You would not even look at that many
resumes. Usually they seldom even consider more than a few, enough to
call them back.

My point is though, you don't need the SS# on the application. *Does
not matter if it is 2, 10, 100 or 10,000. *Until you have a viable
candidate for the job, you have no need for the SS.

I hope you recogize the need to run background checks to
avoid hiring someone who is a fugitive? Or hiring a guy
convicted of embezlement to be your bookkeeper? Or
a night janitor who is a burglar?

Now, would you rather find that out before making the job
offer, when you can just politely tell them that you filled
the position internally. Or would you prefer to wait until
you tell them they have the job, then ask for the SS#, then
do the check, then have to tell them the specific reason
why they are now not getting the job? How about the
candidate turns out to be an axe murderer or a member
of the Bloods convicted of a drive-by? You want to make
that call?


Couldn't you "hire subject to" in the offer letter??

On 12/4/2012 8:27 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

I went online tonight to put a hold on a book at the library. The
library is using the first 4 numbers of my SSN in their "primary
identification" field.


It is. I went through the same thing with a co-op we belonged to mainly
to get a group health insurance rate. The decided to use the SSN as the
primary ID in their database. I protested many times and gave them
supporting information. They moved to a "member number" as the primary
field just before we left them.



That seems like a violation of security to me.

On 12/4/2012 8:45 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:27:55 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.


How would she get SS credits, otherwise?

I went online tonight to put a hold on a book at the library. The
library is using the first 4 numbers of my SSN in their "primary
identification" field.

That seems like a violation of security to me.

Why? A bank account or real estate transaction requires a SS number.

It does say on the SS card - not to be used for identification or
words similar.


They used to say that.


Never heard of asking for the first four numbers. Years ago, maybe
not today, the first three numbers did identify which state the SS
number was issued.

A guy at work showed me how to tell my SS number from my driver's
license number. Forget the method, but he was dead-nut on.

"Doug" wrote in message
On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 23:16:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

stuff snipped

Right, but they don't need that until a job offer is made and
accepted.


Exactly... which is why I tell my daughters when taking an interview,
they will supply their SS # upon employment.

Good idea. A smart employer should realize that an applicant smart enough
to care about securing their own personal data might care enough to protect
company data as well.

--
Bobby G.

George wrote:
On 12/4/2012 8:27 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

I went online tonight to put a hold on a book at the library. The
library is using the first 4 numbers of my SSN in their "primary
identification" field.


It is. I went through the same thing with a co-op we belonged to mainly
to get a group health insurance rate. The decided to use the SSN as the
primary ID in their database. I protested many times and gave them
supporting information. They moved to a "member number" as the primary
field just before we left them.



That seems like a violation of security to me.


Here in Massachusetts we use the CORI (Criminal Offender Record
Information) system to check all our new employees before they start work.

The CORI system asks for the LAST four digits of the person's SSN.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

On 12/5/2012 6:53 AM, wrote:
On Dec 5, 8:39 am, Peter wrote:
On 12/4/2012 8:45 PM, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:27:55 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as
a substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One
of the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish
her SSN on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some
serious damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to
have to furnish them for a job application.

How would she get SS credits, otherwise?

The OP was only applying for the job, she hadn't been hired yet. I
agree that there's no need for the SSN on the application as long as the
employer is satisfied that the applicant is legally in the country

How exactly does an employer do that easily without a
SSN?




and
meets the relevant employment criteria.

My employment criteria includes not being a fugitive,
having outstanding warrants, being convicted of
embezlement, etc. How does an employer do that
without a SSN? Throw away the application from
everyone with the same name that comes back with
a background check hit?
all the job offers i've gotten say: we're offering you this job subject
to passing the following checks: background, fingerprint, citizenship,
etc....

they can make an offer contingent on things, so they don't have to have
the ssn for the application. it just makes it easier (and perhaps
cheaper) on them to do the weeding before the checks, rather than after.

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 06:55:25 -0500, "Meanie" wrote:


"Oren" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 4 Dec 2012 21:30:05 -0500, "Meanie" wrote:

There is no need for an
employer to seek SSN....period.

Are you absolutely certain about that?!

I disagree. Plenty of reasons for them to ask for the SSN.

...and yet, you're not naming any of them.


State and / or Federal Law requirements

Military

Law Enforcement (and Volunteers)

Child Care Center (weed out child molesters)

Government Contracting

Sensitive positions ( rule out chances for employee being compromised
- bribery, etc.)

Rental Agreements (credit worthiness)

Reduce HR work and streamline the application process

Would you work for a company that you could not trust with your SSN?

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 07:01:08 -0500, "Meanie" wrote:

Agreed. AFTER the hire, it is needed. Prior to, I don't believe it is.

To answer Owen, no, I am not sure bout that. I simply don't find a reason to
request it until an applicant becomes an employee.


You can call me OREN :-/ Would that hired employee suddenly fail to
meet standards, then dismissed, be eligible for unemployment benefits?
Seems reasonable to weed them out to begin with.

As for bad credit indicating sloppy people, I also disagree. Many people
with poor credit history are responsible, just poor money management. I know
several people with this type of history and I can assure you, they aren't
sloppy. IMO, it's similar to the insurance agencies asking the SSN to
determine rates....bull****!


Credit history will disqualify a person for many jobs. Same with a
history of domestic violence.

For example:

History of financial problems opens a person up to bribery and
compromise. They get in a pinch to take money to bypass rules,
regulations or the law.

Domestic violence can disqualify a person from the ability to posses
or carry a gun - job requirements.

Easier to know this before they are hired.

On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 11:44:32 -0500, wrote:

Around here, a job application with a SSN left blank would just be
tossed in the trash.

If the application is not completed in its entirety would tell me they
are not a team player :-\

wrote in :

BTW, you don't think a SSN is needed for tax reasons? boggle

Not at the time a person is *applying* for a job, no, it's not needed for tax reasons.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 07:01:08 -0500, "Meanie" wrote:


You can call me OREN :-/ Would that hired employee suddenly fail to
meet standards, then dismissed, be eligible for unemployment benefits?
Seems reasonable to weed them out to begin with.

My apologies. It was a typo and quickly realized after I hit the "send"
button.

Credit history will disqualify a person for many jobs. Same with a
history of domestic violence.

Violence, I can understand and you made valid points in your other reply. I
still don'tthink it's right to disqualify simply for a bad credit report.
Some people make mistakes and are making amends to better their life.
Obtaining a good/better job could be part of doing so. Being judged on that
credit could hinder the improvement procedure.

For example:

History of financial problems opens a person up to bribery and
compromise. They get in a pinch to take money to bypass rules,
regulations or the law.

Domestic violence can disqualify a person from the ability to posses
or carry a gun - job requirements.

Easier to know this before they are hired.

On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:56:42 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 11:57:07 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Doug" wrote in message
On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 23:16:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

stuff snipped

Right, but they don't need that until a job offer is made and
accepted.


Exactly... which is why I tell my daughters when taking an interview,
they will supply their SS # upon employment.

Good idea. A smart employer should realize that an applicant smart enough
to care about securing their own personal data might care enough to protect
company data as well.

Most employers would just think this guy is hiding something or he is
going to be a pain in the ass employee and just throw the application
in the trash.

This hasn't been the case where I live. Perhaps it depends on the
type of job you apply for ????