On 12/6/2012 9:59 PM, wrote:
On 6 Dec 2012 18:00:12 GMT, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 05:55:01 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 6 Dec 2012 03:49:46 GMT, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:28:31 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:56:42 -0500, wrote:




Most employers would just think this guy is hiding something or he is
going to be a pain in the ass employee and just throw the application
in the trash.

Responsible employers don't ask for personal information they do not
need. They don't take on the risk of keeping it on file. Some states
have privacy laws that require such information to be kept double
locked for security.

Wrong. They invariably ask for this information on the application
for employment.

Wrong, many applications do not even has a space for it these days.

*EVERY* one I filled out last year required my SSN, including ones
online before the interview.

http://www.bbb.org/blog/2011/09/shou...b-application/
Remember: Until someone is about to hire you, they have no need for
your social security number. If they say they need it for a background
check, the job offer can be made contingent on a clean report.

Perhaps you don't think they have a need but they do. You're looking,
they're hiring. Ask yourself, "do I want to **** of the HR droid?".

The BBB suggests that the safest option for job-seeking consumers is
this: Never provide your SSN on a job application until you have a
verifiable job offer from a company you trust.

Good luck with that anymore.


redundant bull**** snipped
I've done hiring in my day and NEVER asked for the SSN/SIN before
offering the job.

I think it might be the norm for the sort of job that the "expert on
everything" might be applying for.

On 12/6/2012 11:35 PM, gregz wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:28:31 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:56:42 -0500, wrote:




Most employers would just think this guy is hiding something or he is
going to be a pain in the ass employee and just throw the application
in the trash.

Responsible employers don't ask for personal information they do not
need. They don't take on the risk of keeping it on file. Some states
have privacy laws that require such information to be kept double
locked for security.

Wrong. They invariably ask for this information on the application
for employment.

Applications for employment sounds like something mcdonalds would do. I
don't think I ever filled out a job application, unless it was something
the post office related to taking vigorous testing. Also never had the
opportunity to negotiate terms, but I have turned down jobs. I liked it
when all job adds included pay scale, back in the day ! My resume does
include my social security number, of course I don't need it anymore, I
hope !!

Greg


Fascinating that the "expert on everything " has only experienced the
hiring process for low level hires. It is unusual for anyone beyond that
level to be required to fill out an application.

On 12/7/2012 8:38 AM, wrote:
On Dec 7, 7:55 am, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Dec 6, 7:01 pm, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:



wrote in message

...

On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 14:07:33 -0500, George
wrote:

On 12/6/2012 9:22 AM, wrote:
On Dec 6, 8:46 am, George wrote:
On 12/5/2012 12:56 PM, wrote:

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 11:57:07 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Doug" wrote in message
On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 23:16:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

stuff snipped

Right, but they don't need that until a job offer is made and
accepted.

Exactly... which is why I tell my daughters when taking an
interview,
they will supply their SS # upon employment.

Good idea. A smart employer should realize that an applicant smart
enough
to care about securing their own personal data might care enough to
protect
company data as well.

Most employers would just think this guy is hiding something or he
is
going to be a pain in the ass employee and just throw the
application
in the trash.

A big box or megacorp definitely would because they are looking for
bodies to meld into their system at the cheapest price. A smart small
business might appreciate that the person has a brain.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

So then you have to ask yourself. How lucky to you feel today?
Is it worth having the prospective employer throw the application
in the trash because you didn't supply the SS#? With unemployment
at 8% I know what my answer would be. But on the other hand
when you can collect unemployment for 2 years, food stamps,
free healthcare, I guess that changes the equation. In fact, maybe
leaving it off is a good idea. One way to go on those job interviews
and make sure you don't get the job.

Like all things in life it isn't a black and white scenario that you
rely on.

After all this is nothing but a business transaction. You are offering
something for sale and someone may want to buy it. Terms and conditions
are a moving target.

It is *exactly* a business transaction. One person has a product to
sell and another has money to buy. Just like a retail transaction,
there are agents in the middle who operate with a set of rules that
they usually have no power to change. If you don't follow the rules,
you lose.

If say it is a position at the big box mart chances are you are going
nowhere if you don't absolutely comply with whatever procedures are in
place. But say it is a skilled or professional position. Then you have
bargaining room. The employer makes an offer and you make a counter
offer. Everytime I accepted a position there was a period of negotiation
with offers and counter offers leading into it. If we agreed the usual
deal on the first day was a request to "stop by HR and give them
information so they can enter you into the payroll system".

Complete nonsense.

Just because YOU never had that experience does NOT mean it's not true or
"complete nonsense".

#
# What experience are you talking about? Finding every
# employee at the big box mart irresponsible? You're right
# that hasn't been my experience and what makes it nonsense
# is that it just isn't true.
# All you are demonstrating with such comments, is that you have spent your
life working at the low end of the food chain.

#
# I'm a degreed EE and had a 17 year career in engineering and
# marketing at Intel. So, you're wrong again, fool

So are you claiming that you and are sockpuppets of the same
poster ?



No, I just misread the post. See, when I'm wrong, I'll admit
it. Actually, k and I don't get along all that well. But
we do agree on one thing. And that is that you're a nonsensical
jerk. I don't see anyone else here that has much use for you
either.


But you and "kwr" often seem like the same person. You both like the
silly schoolyard name calling. The only difference is the degree. "kwr"
likes to look even sillier with every pronouncement being "wrong", "you
are stupid" etc to let everyone know they are the self imagined smartest
person in the world.


As far as the "islander" his comments in this thread are extremely
accurate. Typically entry level and lower level job applicants fill out
applications. Higher level job positions no so much.

wrote in message
...
On Dec 7, 7:55 am, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Dec 6, 7:01 pm, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:



wrote in message

.. .

On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 14:07:33 -0500, George
wrote:

On 12/6/2012 9:22 AM, wrote:
On Dec 6, 8:46 am, George wrote:
On 12/5/2012 12:56 PM, wrote:

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 11:57:07 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Doug" wrote in message
On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 23:16:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

stuff snipped

Right, but they don't need that until a job offer is made and
accepted.

Exactly... which is why I tell my daughters when taking an
interview,
they will supply their SS # upon employment.

Good idea. A smart employer should realize that an applicant
smart
enough
to care about securing their own personal data might care enough
to
protect
company data as well.

Most employers would just think this guy is hiding something or he
is
going to be a pain in the ass employee and just throw the
application
in the trash.

A big box or megacorp definitely would because they are looking for
bodies to meld into their system at the cheapest price. A smart
small
business might appreciate that the person has a brain.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

So then you have to ask yourself. How lucky to you feel today?
Is it worth having the prospective employer throw the application
in the trash because you didn't supply the SS#? With unemployment
at 8% I know what my answer would be. But on the other hand
when you can collect unemployment for 2 years, food stamps,
free healthcare, I guess that changes the equation. In fact, maybe
leaving it off is a good idea. One way to go on those job interviews
and make sure you don't get the job.

Like all things in life it isn't a black and white scenario that you
rely on.

After all this is nothing but a business transaction. You are offering
something for sale and someone may want to buy it. Terms and
conditions
are a moving target.

It is *exactly* a business transaction. One person has a product to
sell and another has money to buy. Just like a retail transaction,
there are agents in the middle who operate with a set of rules that
they usually have no power to change. If you don't follow the rules,
you lose.

If say it is a position at the big box mart chances are you are going
nowhere if you don't absolutely comply with whatever procedures are in
place. But say it is a skilled or professional position. Then you have
bargaining room. The employer makes an offer and you make a counter
offer. Everytime I accepted a position there was a period of
negotiation
with offers and counter offers leading into it. If we agreed the usual
deal on the first day was a request to "stop by HR and give them
information so they can enter you into the payroll system".

Complete nonsense.

Just because YOU never had that experience does NOT mean it's not true
or
"complete nonsense".

#
# What experience are you talking about? Finding every
# employee at the big box mart irresponsible? You're right
# that hasn't been my experience and what makes it nonsense
# is that it just isn't true.
# All you are demonstrating with such comments, is that you have spent
your
life working at the low end of the food chain.

#
# I'm a degreed EE and had a 17 year career in engineering and
# marketing at Intel. So, you're wrong again, fool

So are you claiming that you and are sockpuppets of the same
poster ?


#
# No, I just misread the post. See, when I'm wrong, I'll admit
# it. Actually, k and I don't get along all that well. But
# we do agree on one thing. And that is that you're a nonsensical
# jerk. I don't see anyone else here that has much use for you
# either.

LOL
AS IF you speak for others
As to your opinion
Keep signing your posts with
"......fool."

On 12/6/2012 10:39 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 14:07:33 -0500, George
wrote:



Like all things in life it isn't a black and white scenario that you
rely on.

After all this is nothing but a business transaction. You are offering
something for sale and someone may want to buy it. Terms and conditions
are a moving target.

If say it is a position at the big box mart chances are you are going
nowhere if you don't absolutely comply with whatever procedures are in
place. But say it is a skilled or professional position. Then you have
bargaining room. The employer makes an offer and you make a counter
offer. Everytime I accepted a position there was a period of negotiation
with offers and counter offers leading into it. If we agreed the usual
deal on the first day was a request to "stop by HR and give them
information so they can enter you into the payroll system".

+1
Been a long time since I filled out an "application," and I can't
remember if they wanted SSN. In the "resume" world SSN isn't on the
resume, and isn't needed until you're on the payroll.


It still is. I mentioned that my niece is the HR manager in a 800+
employee business. Typical hourly positions involve someone filling out
an application (most are done online on their portal). Other positions
involve someone from her staff calling someone to come in for a 1st
interview to meet whomever they will be reporting to. If there is
interest they make an offer and handle counter offers. If they hire that
person the necessary info to put them in the payroll system is collected
when they arrive on their first day.



But my experience with that is a dozen years old, and
non-governmental, "non-security-check."
The way I see it the SSN isn't exactly "top-secret" anymore, so if I
was filling an application that had it, I would provide it.
Any Joe Shmoe car salesman asks for it to do a credit check.
Do we trust car salesmen?
HR departments vary widely too.
When I took a job running heavy presses and shears at IH in 1968 I was
called to HR after a couple weeks on the job. Stupidest thing I ever
saw.
On the application I had put 1 semester (6 months) of HS at CVS in
Chicago. Honestly saying I was a high school dropout. I also gave
them a GED from the Navy, and a DD-214 showing honorable discharge,
making that meaningless But these jokers called me off the shop floor
because they had found no record of me being a CVS dropout.
I told them my name was different then, and to check under that name,
and never heard from them again. Really lame.

On 12/6/2012 4:05 PM, wrote:
On Dec 6, 2:15 pm, George wrote:
On 12/6/2012 9:02 AM, Attila Iskander wrote:







wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:15:11 -0600, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:26:18 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 11:08:22 -0800, Oren wrote:

Would you work for a company that you could not trust with your SSN?

Would yo work for a company that wants your personal information for
no good reason?

They have good reason, so they ask.

The Stasi had "good reason" for going "Papieren" whenever they felt
like it
too.

Silly moral relativity answer, not to mention a Godwin call.

So what is the sound of an argument entering in one ear, exiting out the
other, and never slowing down in between..
As to your "Godwin call", where did I make any mention of nazis ??
Apparently you're not even up to speed on Godwin..

That they have good reason (in their minds) does not necessarily make it
good reason for you or justify their asking

Bull****. Their job. You want it, or not? Your call.

My experience and expertise,
You want it or not ?
Your call

Unlike you, I was and still am in high enough demand, that It's a
sellers' market for me.
Hell, I don't even discuss $$$ and benies unless they have clearly
stated that here is a job on the table.

But then, unlike you, I'm not an easily replaceable drone..
'

Seems like an "expert" may not know how hiring for responsible job
positions work. The "want it or not" thing is what someone might expect
from the big box mart but responsible jobs involve negotiations.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Which of course is nonsense. What exactly is a "responsible"
job. The big box mart has everything from a cashier, to loss
prevention,
to maintenance, to dept mgr, to GM. Are all of them irresponsible?

Think you know what I meant but I forgot you only think in absolutes...

On 12/6/2012 10:56 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 6 Dec 2012 21:44:25 GMT, wrote:




Moron, neither my opinion, Ed's, nor yours matters. What matters is
the opinion of the hiring entity. It's important for *THEM*. Your
sorry ass loses (to be expected for a loser).


Having been the hiring entity for a number of years, my opinion
matters. I don't ask for the SS# up front.


You don't understand that you are dealing with the self imagined
smartest person in the world who for some reason can only communicate at
a childish name calling level.

On 12/6/2012 10:12 PM, wrote:
On 6 Dec 2012 22:42:36 GMT, wrote:

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 23:40:53 -0600, "NotMe" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:25:49 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in :

BTW, you don't think a SSN is needed for tax reasons? boggle

Not at the time a person is *applying* for a job, no, it's not needed for
tax reasons.

Applicatoins also have the information needed to do any background
checks for employment. Why would you want to work for a company that
you can't trust with your SSN? Considering the number of people who
have your SSN, isn't this a little silly?

A lot of information is needed to complete the employment process including
personal and professional references. I don't and won't supply those unless
and until there is a determination of a skill set and other match for the
position.

Fair enough but note that you *will* be excluded from consideration by
many employers. I refused to supply this information, once, before
even a phone interview. That was the last I heard from the company.


It's unreasonable for an employer to expect that data at the get go.

It doesn't matter what *you* think is reasonable.

The name of the game is protecting your information. I have had experience
where someone else used my data obtained from a contract recruiter to pose
as me including signing my name and professional license number to federal
documents.

You've already lost. That horse is *long* gone. Do yourself a favor
and don't **** off prospective employers for no reason.

Rother **** them off and not have to work for idiots than to cave and
end up working for them - wishing you had not - be better off spending
your time looking for a job with a decent company - in MANY cases.


Exactly, if such a trivial thing is a stumbling block then you just
learned why you should decline any offer and move on.

In the case of "krw" there isn't much latitude for the sort of position
they would be filling out an employment application for.

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 11:41:42 -0500, George
wrote:

On 12/6/2012 11:35 PM, gregz wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:28:31 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:56:42 -0500, wrote:




Most employers would just think this guy is hiding something or he is
going to be a pain in the ass employee and just throw the application
in the trash.

Responsible employers don't ask for personal information they do not
need. They don't take on the risk of keeping it on file. Some states
have privacy laws that require such information to be kept double
locked for security.

Wrong. They invariably ask for this information on the application
for employment.

Applications for employment sounds like something mcdonalds would do. I
don't think I ever filled out a job application, unless it was something
the post office related to taking vigorous testing. Also never had the
opportunity to negotiate terms, but I have turned down jobs. I liked it
when all job adds included pay scale, back in the day ! My resume does
include my social security number, of course I don't need it anymore, I
hope !!

Greg


Fascinating that the "expert on everything " has only experienced the
hiring process for low level hires. It is unusual for anyone beyond that
level to be required to fill out an application.

Wrong.

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 11:54:09 -0500, George
wrote:

On 12/7/2012 8:38 AM, wrote:
On Dec 7, 7:55 am, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Dec 6, 7:01 pm, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:



wrote in message

...

On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 14:07:33 -0500, George
wrote:

On 12/6/2012 9:22 AM, wrote:
On Dec 6, 8:46 am, George wrote:
On 12/5/2012 12:56 PM, wrote:

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 11:57:07 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Doug" wrote in message
On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 23:16:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

stuff snipped

Right, but they don't need that until a job offer is made and
accepted.

Exactly... which is why I tell my daughters when taking an
interview,
they will supply their SS # upon employment.

Good idea. A smart employer should realize that an applicant smart
enough
to care about securing their own personal data might care enough to
protect
company data as well.

Most employers would just think this guy is hiding something or he
is
going to be a pain in the ass employee and just throw the
application
in the trash.

A big box or megacorp definitely would because they are looking for
bodies to meld into their system at the cheapest price. A smart small
business might appreciate that the person has a brain.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

So then you have to ask yourself. How lucky to you feel today?
Is it worth having the prospective employer throw the application
in the trash because you didn't supply the SS#? With unemployment
at 8% I know what my answer would be. But on the other hand
when you can collect unemployment for 2 years, food stamps,
free healthcare, I guess that changes the equation. In fact, maybe
leaving it off is a good idea. One way to go on those job interviews
and make sure you don't get the job.

Like all things in life it isn't a black and white scenario that you
rely on.

After all this is nothing but a business transaction. You are offering
something for sale and someone may want to buy it. Terms and conditions
are a moving target.

It is *exactly* a business transaction. One person has a product to
sell and another has money to buy. Just like a retail transaction,
there are agents in the middle who operate with a set of rules that
they usually have no power to change. If you don't follow the rules,
you lose.

If say it is a position at the big box mart chances are you are going
nowhere if you don't absolutely comply with whatever procedures are in
place. But say it is a skilled or professional position. Then you have
bargaining room. The employer makes an offer and you make a counter
offer. Everytime I accepted a position there was a period of negotiation
with offers and counter offers leading into it. If we agreed the usual
deal on the first day was a request to "stop by HR and give them
information so they can enter you into the payroll system".

Complete nonsense.

Just because YOU never had that experience does NOT mean it's not true or
"complete nonsense".

#
# What experience are you talking about? Finding every
# employee at the big box mart irresponsible? You're right
# that hasn't been my experience and what makes it nonsense
# is that it just isn't true.
# All you are demonstrating with such comments, is that you have spent your
life working at the low end of the food chain.

#
# I'm a degreed EE and had a 17 year career in engineering and
# marketing at Intel. So, you're wrong again, fool

So are you claiming that you and are sockpuppets of the same
poster ?



No, I just misread the post. See, when I'm wrong, I'll admit
it. Actually, k and I don't get along all that well. But
we do agree on one thing. And that is that you're a nonsensical
jerk. I don't see anyone else here that has much use for you
either.


But you and "kwr" often seem like the same person.

That simply shows how stupid you are.

You both like the
silly schoolyard name calling. The only difference is the degree. "kwr"
likes to look even sillier with every pronouncement being "wrong", "you
are stupid" etc to let everyone know they are the self imagined smartest
person in the world.

I'm only telling you what everyone else already knows. Perhaps you
too will get the clue some day.

As far as the "islander" his comments in this thread are extremely
accurate. Typically entry level and lower level job applicants fill out
applications. Higher level job positions no so much.

Clearly wrong.

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:07:53 -0500, George
wrote:

On 12/6/2012 10:56 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 6 Dec 2012 21:44:25 GMT, wrote:




Moron, neither my opinion, Ed's, nor yours matters. What matters is
the opinion of the hiring entity. It's important for *THEM*. Your
sorry ass loses (to be expected for a loser).


Having been the hiring entity for a number of years, my opinion
matters. I don't ask for the SS# up front.


You don't understand that you are dealing with the self imagined
smartest person in the world who for some reason can only communicate at
a childish name calling level.

He's now dealing with the dumbest person on the Usenet, George.

On 7 Dec 2012 04:33:23 GMT, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:12:16 -0500, wrote:

On 6 Dec 2012 22:42:36 GMT, wrote:

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 23:40:53 -0600, "NotMe" wrote:


wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:25:49 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in :

BTW, you don't think a SSN is needed for tax reasons? boggle

Not at the time a person is *applying* for a job, no, it's not needed for
tax reasons.

Applicatoins also have the information needed to do any background
checks for employment. Why would you want to work for a company that
you can't trust with your SSN? Considering the number of people who
have your SSN, isn't this a little silly?

A lot of information is needed to complete the employment process including
personal and professional references. I don't and won't supply those unless
and until there is a determination of a skill set and other match for the
position.

Fair enough but note that you *will* be excluded from consideration by
many employers. I refused to supply this information, once, before
even a phone interview. That was the last I heard from the company.


It's unreasonable for an employer to expect that data at the get go.

It doesn't matter what *you* think is reasonable.

The name of the game is protecting your information. I have had experience
where someone else used my data obtained from a contract recruiter to pose
as me including signing my name and professional license number to federal
documents.

You've already lost. That horse is *long* gone. Do yourself a favor
and don't **** off prospective employers for no reason.

Rother **** them off and not have to work for idiots than to cave and
end up working for them - wishing you had not - be better off spending
your time looking for a job with a decent company - in MANY cases.

Utterly absurd.
That's your opinion. You are entitled to it. That and 2 bucks will
buy you a bad cup of coffee.

On 7 Dec 2012 04:38:56 GMT, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:14:49 -0500, wrote:

On 6 Dec 2012 22:51:16 GMT, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 12:51:29 -0500, wrote:

On 6 Dec 2012 05:44:45 GMT, wrote:

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:28:07 -0600, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:v3o2c8pob4k0ev3a9ona060ulsov79na4j@4ax. com...
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 07:03:43 -0500, "Meanie" wrote:


"IGot2P" wrote in message
...
On 12/4/2012 8:30 PM, Meanie wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

How is a prospective employer supposed to do
any kind of background checks without even a
SS #? It's typically asked for when applying for a
loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit,
etc. So, I don't see the issue as being unique
or unreasonable in regard to employment.

Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all
require
financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to
check
credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible
person
so
they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to
do a
job. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the
employer
to
ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an
employer to seek SSN....period.


I am retired now but one of the first things that we did when someone
applied for employment was to run their SS# against the ones that were
already on file for current employees. You might find it surprising but
several times that SS# was already being used by one of our employees.
We
then had to find out if the current employee was the actual owner of
that
SS# or if the applicant was or neither of them was.

Now that opens a new light and I can see the reason. BUT, I still can't
see
why they cannot wait to do that if/after they hire the person. Yes, it may
avoid a minor hassle of hiring and paperwork, but it isn't difficult, IMO,
to simply move on to the runner up applicant.

Because they're not going to do a pre-employment background check
*after* they hire. sheesh!

Your right

I even took a few English courses in grade school.

Instead they'll do a post-conditional-offer employment check with the
final offer conditional on the results
See how simple that is

No, they won't. They'll pass on your sorry ass for someone who will
follow instructions.

What some people seem to forget

...that they want a job? You probably have forgotten that.
There ARE employers ( and others) out there who will ask for
information they A) don't need and B) have no legal authority to ask
for and will be pricks when told politely they are not getting it.

They clearly believe they have the need for the information. They
also have the legal authority to ask for the information, so your
argument is just as stupid as...

Actually, in Canada they do NOT have the right to ask for it.

Who the **** cares about Canuckistan? You and HomoGay can have it.

...
Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

wrote in message
...
On 7 Dec 2012 04:38:56 GMT, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:14:49 -0500, wrote:

On 6 Dec 2012 22:51:16 GMT, wrote:


They clearly believe they have the need for the information. They
also have the legal authority to ask for the information, so your
argument is just as stupid as...

Actually, in Canada they do NOT have the right to ask for it.

Who the **** cares about Canuckistan? You and HomoGay can have it.

...
Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

Arguable point about "best country in the world"
And Canada has it's share of "goofs".

Google "karen gordon on can.politics for a good example.

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:22:53 -0600, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:

Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

Arguable point about "best country in the world"
And Canada has it's share of "goofs".

_$28 cabbage, $65 chicken, and other insane food prices in Northern
Canada _

"...It’s not just food, either — necessary sundries like diapers and
sanitary napkins are also outrageously expensive."

http://grist.org/list/28-cabbage-65-chicken-and-other-insane-food-prices-in-northern-canada-2/

On Dec 7, 5:43*pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:22:53 -0600, " Attila Iskander"

wrote:
Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

Arguable point about "best country in the world"
* *And Canada has it's share of "goofs".

_$28 cabbage, $65 chicken, and other insane food prices in Northern
Canada _

"...It’s not just food, either — necessary sundries like diapers and
sanitary napkins are also outrageously expensive."

http://grist.org/list/28-cabbage-65-chicken-and-other-insane-food-pri...



Good find, my friend. Where's HomelessGuy when you need him?
According to him, why everything is peachy keen up there in Canada
with a perfect economy and bad
stuff only happens in the USA. At least here peppers and cabbage
don't cost $15 a pound.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:22:53 -0600, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:

Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

Arguable point about "best country in the world"
And Canada has it's share of "goofs".

_$28 cabbage, $65 chicken, and other insane food prices in Northern
Canada _

"...It's not just food, either - necessary sundries like diapers and
sanitary napkins are also outrageously expensive."

http://grist.org/list/28-cabbage-65-chicken-and-other-insane-food-prices-in-northern-canada-2/

Yup
Transportation costs can do that

But hey, if you think you can ship stuff up there and sell it cheaper
there's nothing stopping you for doing so.

wrote in message
...
On Dec 7, 5:43 pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:22:53 -0600, " Attila Iskander"

wrote:
Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

Arguable point about "best country in the world"
And Canada has it's share of "goofs".

_$28 cabbage, $65 chicken, and other insane food prices in Northern
Canada _

"...It’s not just food, either — necessary sundries like diapers and
sanitary napkins are also outrageously expensive."

http://grist.org/list/28-cabbage-65-chicken-and-other-insane-food-pri...
#
#
# Good find, my friend. Where's HomelessGuy when you need him?
# According to him, why everything is peachy keen up there in Canada
# with a perfect economy and bad
# stuff only happens in the USA. At least here peppers and cabbage
# don't cost $15 a pound.


DOH !
Two ignoramuses licking each other's butts

Look at a map, dummy
See those great distances
it costs MONEY to ship stuff across those distances.
Particularly since there are very few if no roads at all, no real lines
either
So the ONLY way to ship stuff in is by air
That COSTS MONEY
PARTICULARLY if you don't have enough volume to make bulk shipments
cost-effective

But no surprise that you two idiots are clueless about simple economics.

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:22:53 -0600, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On 7 Dec 2012 04:38:56 GMT, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:14:49 -0500, wrote:

On 6 Dec 2012 22:51:16 GMT, wrote:


They clearly believe they have the need for the information. They
also have the legal authority to ask for the information, so your
argument is just as stupid as...

Actually, in Canada they do NOT have the right to ask for it.

Who the **** cares about Canuckistan? You and HomoGay can have it.

...
Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

Arguable point about "best country in the world"
And Canada has it's share of "goofs".

Google "karen gordon on can.politics for a good example.
Yup - we have enough of them - so uninformed Yankees who spout off
about "Canuckistan" can stay south of the border - we don't need 'em.
Particularly those who have never been here and spout off about it. A
much larger percentage of Canadians have actually been to the USA than
Americans to Canada. I'd venture to guess even in RAW NUMBERS, more
Canadians have travelled to the USA than Americans to Canada, even
though there are roughly 10 times as many Americans than there are
Canadians.

Most Canadians even have a pretty good idea of the capitals of the
states, and where the states are - while the vast majority of
Americans are pretty ignorant about all things Canadian.

That said, if Americans want to come up here to visit - with a open
mind - they are most welcome to come visit. Just leave your guns at
home. You will be made welcome, and we even accept your Yankee
Greenbacks - no questions asked - whether they are worth more or less
than the Canadian Looney. (we pay or charge the exchange) - unlike
trying to pay for ANYTHING with Canadian money in the vast majority of
the USA.

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 18:43:13 -0600, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Dec 7, 5:43 pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:22:53 -0600, " Attila Iskander"

wrote:
Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

Arguable point about "best country in the world"
And Canada has it's share of "goofs".

_$28 cabbage, $65 chicken, and other insane food prices in Northern
Canada _

"...It’s not just food, either — necessary sundries like diapers and
sanitary napkins are also outrageously expensive."

http://grist.org/list/28-cabbage-65-chicken-and-other-insane-food-pri...
#
#
# Good find, my friend. Where's HomelessGuy when you need him?
# According to him, why everything is peachy keen up there in Canada
# with a perfect economy and bad
# stuff only happens in the USA. At least here peppers and cabbage
# don't cost $15 a pound.


DOH !
Two ignoramuses licking each other's butts

Look at a map, dummy
See those great distances
it costs MONEY to ship stuff across those distances.
Particularly since there are very few if no roads at all, no real lines
either
So the ONLY way to ship stuff in is by air
That COSTS MONEY
PARTICULARLY if you don't have enough volume to make bulk shipments
cost-effective

But no surprise that you two idiots are clueless about simple economics.


Did you find a turd in your cornflakes this morning?

You seem to be calling _everybody_ names here recently. Sure there is
a transport problem.

Some would think something could be done to facilitate a poor
community, like the one mentioned. You could offer something other
than being an asshole.

No need to reply.....

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 18:40:29 -0600, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:


"Oren" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:22:53 -0600, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:

Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

Arguable point about "best country in the world"
And Canada has it's share of "goofs".

_$28 cabbage, $65 chicken, and other insane food prices in Northern
Canada _

"...It's not just food, either - necessary sundries like diapers and
sanitary napkins are also outrageously expensive."

http://grist.org/list/28-cabbage-65-chicken-and-other-insane-food-prices-in-northern-canada-2/

Yup
Transportation costs can do that

But hey, if you think you can ship stuff up there and sell it cheaper
there's nothing stopping you for doing so.
The same is true in "Northern USA" - aka ALASKA.

However, less than 10% of Canadians live in remote areas. Most of
Kansas and Oklahoma are more remote than most of "inhabited" Canada.
Large parts of Texas as well.

And even in southern and central Saskatchewan, "where you can watch
your dog run away for a week" most goods are no more expensive than in
the major cities.

That's what I mean by so many Americans not having a CLUE about
Canada.

I've travelled in and through every province of Canada as well as the
Yukon - and 35 of the lower mainland states as well as Alaska.
A lot of Americans have not seen that much of the USA.
I've also travelled much of Mexico, and I've been in 7 african
countries, as well as several european, and several of the caribean
islands.

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 18:43:13 -0600, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Dec 7, 5:43 pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:22:53 -0600, " Attila Iskander"

wrote:
Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

Arguable point about "best country in the world"
And Canada has it's share of "goofs".

_$28 cabbage, $65 chicken, and other insane food prices in Northern
Canada _

"...Its not just food, either €” necessary sundries like diapers and
sanitary napkins are also outrageously expensive."

http://grist.org/list/28-cabbage-65-chicken-and-other-insane-food-pri...
#
#
# Good find, my friend. Where's HomelessGuy when you need him?
# According to him, why everything is peachy keen up there in Canada
# with a perfect economy and bad
# stuff only happens in the USA. At least here peppers and cabbage
# don't cost $15 a pound.


DOH !
Two ignoramuses licking each other's butts

Look at a map, dummy
See those great distances
it costs MONEY to ship stuff across those distances.
Particularly since there are very few if no roads at all, no real lines
either
So the ONLY way to ship stuff in is by air
That COSTS MONEY
PARTICULARLY if you don't have enough volume to make bulk shipments
cost-effective

But no surprise that you two idiots are clueless about simple economics.

And even more clueless about GEOGRAPHY. The vast mnajority of
Canadians live within miles of a major highway and/or rail line.
Better than 80% of Canadians are closer to major supply lines than
half of Kansans .

Most of what I need can be purchased with 15 miles for within 5-7% of
what most Americans pay for it - some things even less - the odd thing
a bit more. Milk, bread, eggs and meat are slighly less expensive in
the states. Gas is taxed less - so is significantly cheaper - as is
BOOZE

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 15:50:22 -0500, wrote:

On 7 Dec 2012 04:33:23 GMT, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:12:16 -0500, wrote:

On 6 Dec 2012 22:42:36 GMT, wrote:

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 23:40:53 -0600, "NotMe" wrote:


wrote in message
om...
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:25:49 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in :

BTW, you don't think a SSN is needed for tax reasons? boggle

Not at the time a person is *applying* for a job, no, it's not needed for
tax reasons.

Applicatoins also have the information needed to do any background
checks for employment. Why would you want to work for a company that
you can't trust with your SSN? Considering the number of people who
have your SSN, isn't this a little silly?

A lot of information is needed to complete the employment process including
personal and professional references. I don't and won't supply those unless
and until there is a determination of a skill set and other match for the
position.

Fair enough but note that you *will* be excluded from consideration by
many employers. I refused to supply this information, once, before
even a phone interview. That was the last I heard from the company.


It's unreasonable for an employer to expect that data at the get go.

It doesn't matter what *you* think is reasonable.

The name of the game is protecting your information. I have had experience
where someone else used my data obtained from a contract recruiter to pose
as me including signing my name and professional license number to federal
documents.

You've already lost. That horse is *long* gone. Do yourself a favor
and don't **** off prospective employers for no reason.

Rother **** them off and not have to work for idiots than to cave and
end up working for them - wishing you had not - be better off spending
your time looking for a job with a decent company - in MANY cases.

Utterly absurd.
That's your opinion.

No, it's not an opinion.

You are entitled to it. That and 2 bucks will
buy you a bad cup of coffee.

Two bucks?! It had better be hot.

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:18:06 -0500, George
wrote:

On 12/6/2012 10:12 PM, wrote:
On 6 Dec 2012 22:42:36 GMT, wrote:

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 23:40:53 -0600, "NotMe" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:25:49 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in :

BTW, you don't think a SSN is needed for tax reasons? boggle

Not at the time a person is *applying* for a job, no, it's not needed for
tax reasons.

Applicatoins also have the information needed to do any background
checks for employment. Why would you want to work for a company that
you can't trust with your SSN? Considering the number of people who
have your SSN, isn't this a little silly?

A lot of information is needed to complete the employment process including
personal and professional references. I don't and won't supply those unless
and until there is a determination of a skill set and other match for the
position.

Fair enough but note that you *will* be excluded from consideration by
many employers. I refused to supply this information, once, before
even a phone interview. That was the last I heard from the company.


It's unreasonable for an employer to expect that data at the get go.

It doesn't matter what *you* think is reasonable.

The name of the game is protecting your information. I have had experience
where someone else used my data obtained from a contract recruiter to pose
as me including signing my name and professional license number to federal
documents.

You've already lost. That horse is *long* gone. Do yourself a favor
and don't **** off prospective employers for no reason.

Rother **** them off and not have to work for idiots than to cave and
end up working for them - wishing you had not - be better off spending
your time looking for a job with a decent company - in MANY cases.


Exactly, if such a trivial thing is a stumbling block then you just
learned why you should decline any offer and move on.

Utter bull**** but it is to be expected from you.

In the case of "krw" there isn't much latitude for the sort of position
they would be filling out an employment application for.

You really are an idiot.

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 15:52:17 -0500, wrote:

On 7 Dec 2012 04:38:56 GMT, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:14:49 -0500, wrote:

On 6 Dec 2012 22:51:16 GMT, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 12:51:29 -0500, wrote:

On 6 Dec 2012 05:44:45 GMT, wrote:

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:28:07 -0600, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:v3o2c8pob4k0ev3a9ona060ulsov79na4j@4ax .com...
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 07:03:43 -0500, "Meanie" wrote:


"IGot2P" wrote in message
...
On 12/4/2012 8:30 PM, Meanie wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Dec 4, 8:27 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I was talking on the phone with my cousin today. She has worked as a
substitute teacher in several schools. She is between jobs. One of
the things she mentioned was that they require her to furnish her SSN
on job applications. Since the wrong person could do some serious
damage with your SSN, I really think it is a bad idea to have to
furnish them for a job application.

How is a prospective employer supposed to do
any kind of background checks without even a
SS #? It's typically asked for when applying for a
loan, credit card, apartment rental, hospital visit,
etc. So, I don't see the issue as being unique
or unreasonable in regard to employment.

Financial institutes, leasing agencies, medical facilities, etc. all
require
financial payment for services and/or goods. They require the need to
check
credit history to ensure they deal with a financially responsible
person
so
they can get paid. An employer does not and simply pays the employee to
do a
job. If anything, the applicant should check the history of the
employer
to
ensure they've never had problems with payroll. There is no need for an
employer to seek SSN....period.


I am retired now but one of the first things that we did when someone
applied for employment was to run their SS# against the ones that were
already on file for current employees. You might find it surprising but
several times that SS# was already being used by one of our employees.
We
then had to find out if the current employee was the actual owner of
that
SS# or if the applicant was or neither of them was.

Now that opens a new light and I can see the reason. BUT, I still can't
see
why they cannot wait to do that if/after they hire the person. Yes, it may
avoid a minor hassle of hiring and paperwork, but it isn't difficult, IMO,
to simply move on to the runner up applicant.

Because they're not going to do a pre-employment background check
*after* they hire. sheesh!

Your right

I even took a few English courses in grade school.

Instead they'll do a post-conditional-offer employment check with the
final offer conditional on the results
See how simple that is

No, they won't. They'll pass on your sorry ass for someone who will
follow instructions.

What some people seem to forget

...that they want a job? You probably have forgotten that.
There ARE employers ( and others) out there who will ask for
information they A) don't need and B) have no legal authority to ask
for and will be pricks when told politely they are not getting it.

They clearly believe they have the need for the information. They
also have the legal authority to ask for the information, so your
argument is just as stupid as...

Actually, in Canada they do NOT have the right to ask for it.

Who the **** cares about Canuckistan? You and HomoGay can have it.

...
Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

You're too funny. Please stay there, with HomoGay.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 18:43:13 -0600, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Dec 7, 5:43 pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:22:53 -0600, " Attila Iskander"

wrote:
Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

Arguable point about "best country in the world"
And Canada has it's share of "goofs".

_$28 cabbage, $65 chicken, and other insane food prices in Northern
Canada _

"...It's not just food, either - necessary sundries like diapers and
sanitary napkins are also outrageously expensive."

http://grist.org/list/28-cabbage-65-chicken-and-other-insane-food-pri...
#
#
# Good find, my friend. Where's HomelessGuy when you need him?
# According to him, why everything is peachy keen up there in Canada
# with a perfect economy and bad
# stuff only happens in the USA. At least here peppers and cabbage
# don't cost $15 a pound.


DOH !
Two ignoramuses licking each other's butts

Look at a map, dummy
See those great distances
it costs MONEY to ship stuff across those distances.
Particularly since there are very few if no roads at all, no real lines
either
So the ONLY way to ship stuff in is by air
That COSTS MONEY
PARTICULARLY if you don't have enough volume to make bulk shipments
cost-effective

But no surprise that you two idiots are clueless about simple economics.


Did you find a turd in your cornflakes this morning?

You seem to be calling _everybody_ names here recently. Sure there is
a transport problem.

Some would think something could be done to facilitate a poor
community, like the one mentioned. You could offer something other
than being an asshole.


Woulda, coulda, shoulda
Takes not brains to spout ignorant cant

No need to reply.....


That's OK
I'll reply where and when I choose.

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 04:35:54 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:




I've been hiring people for the past 40 years. *While it used to be
SOP to have the SS#, it has not been for years now. * *You? *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's interesting? You say it used to be asked for, but
hasn't now for years. What caused the change? And how
could you possibly know what all other employers are or
are not doing all over the country?

I said, it used to be SOP, but is not now. That does not mean that
some companies do not still ask for it. I don't know what every
employer does, but I do know what some do and don't do.

What changed? Identity theft and security of personal information. As
this became more of a problem, enlightened employers decided to change
their methods. Some states used to use your SS for your driver's
licence number also. It certainly seems an easy thing to do, but I
know at leas MA stopped doing it.

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 10:13:58 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Every now and again, one really takes off.

This is such a moment. I don't remember the
last one that took off like this. Was it WD-40
or political?


A republican and democrat applied for a job at the WD-40 lubricant
factory. Which one supplied his SS# on the application?

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 23:08:46 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 04:35:54 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:




I've been hiring people for the past 40 years. *While it used to be
SOP to have the SS#, it has not been for years now. * *You? *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's interesting? You say it used to be asked for, but
hasn't now for years. What caused the change? And how
could you possibly know what all other employers are or
are not doing all over the country?

I said, it used to be SOP, but is not now. That does not mean that
some companies do not still ask for it. I don't know what every
employer does, but I do know what some do and don't do.

*ALL* do, it's just a matter of when in the process. I found that it
was quite early in the hiring process. Of course they ask again for
the I-9.

What changed? Identity theft and security of personal information. As
this became more of a problem, enlightened employers decided to change
their methods. Some states used to use your SS for your driver's
licence number also. It certainly seems an easy thing to do, but I
know at leas MA stopped doing it.

That's an entirely different issue.

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 23:12:05 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 10:13:58 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Every now and again, one really takes off.

This is such a moment. I don't remember the
last one that took off like this. Was it WD-40
or political?


A republican and democrat applied for a job at the WD-40 lubricant
factory. Which one supplied his SS# on the application?

That's easy. The Republican. The question wasn't about applying for
welfare.

On 8 Dec 2012 05:03:48 GMT, wrote:




*ALL* do, it's just a matter of when in the process. I found that it
was quite early in the hiring process. Of course they ask again for
the I-9.


Of course, if hired they ask for it. They have to. No disputed that.


What changed? Identity theft and security of personal information. As
this became more of a problem, enlightened employers decided to change
their methods. Some states used to use your SS for your driver's
licence number also. It certainly seems an easy thing to do, but I
know at leas MA stopped doing it.

That's an entirely different issue.

No, that is why many places no longer ask for the SS and is why many
of us would not give it until needed.

In article ,
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 04:35:54 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:


their methods. Some states used to use your SS for your driver's
licence number also. It certainly seems an easy thing to do, but I
know at leas MA stopped doing it.
IIRC every state should have stopped a few years ago. That was
mandated by the Feds. They still can require you give it, but they can
no longer put it on the DL as your license number. FWIW, MCare was
ordered to do the same thing years ago and hasn't quite gotten around to
it yet. They still use SSN as your account number.. which makes it too
easy for the scammers to file false bills.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On 12/8/2012 12:13 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8 Dec 2012 05:03:48 GMT, wrote:




*ALL* do, it's just a matter of when in the process. I found that it
was quite early in the hiring process. Of course they ask again for
the I-9.


Of course, if hired they ask for it. They have to. No disputed that.


What changed? Identity theft and security of personal information. As
this became more of a problem, enlightened employers decided to change
their methods. Some states used to use your SS for your driver's
licence number also. It certainly seems an easy thing to do, but I
know at leas MA stopped doing it.

That's an entirely different issue.

No, that is why many places no longer ask for the SS and is why many
of us would not give it until needed.


It seems you missed the idea that the expert on everything knows more
than people who have actual experience doing stuff?

On 12/7/2012 6:17 PM, wrote:
On Dec 7, 5:43 pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:22:53 -0600, " Attila Iskander"

wrote:
Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

Arguable point about "best country in the world"
And Canada has it's share of "goofs".

_$28 cabbage, $65 chicken, and other insane food prices in Northern
Canada _

"...It’s not just food, either — necessary sundries like diapers and
sanitary napkins are also outrageously expensive."

http://grist.org/list/28-cabbage-65-chicken-and-other-insane-food-pri...



Good find, my friend. Where's HomelessGuy when you need him?
According to him, why everything is peachy keen up there in Canada
with a perfect economy and bad
stuff only happens in the USA. At least here peppers and cabbage
don't cost $15 a pound.


Not disputing troubled "home guy" but how much do you suppose it adds to
the cost of a crate of produce if you load it on an airplane with 5
other crates and fly it 1,000 miles into the most distant of the
Northwest territories?

On 12/7/2012 8:06 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 18:43:13 -0600, " Attila Iskander"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Dec 7, 5:43 pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:22:53 -0600, " Attila Iskander"

wrote:
Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

Arguable point about "best country in the world"
And Canada has it's share of "goofs".

_$28 cabbage, $65 chicken, and other insane food prices in Northern
Canada _

"...It’s not just food, either — necessary sundries like diapers and
sanitary napkins are also outrageously expensive."

http://grist.org/list/28-cabbage-65-chicken-and-other-insane-food-pri...
#
#
# Good find, my friend. Where's HomelessGuy when you need him?
# According to him, why everything is peachy keen up there in Canada
# with a perfect economy and bad
# stuff only happens in the USA. At least here peppers and cabbage
# don't cost $15 a pound.


DOH !
Two ignoramuses licking each other's butts

Look at a map, dummy
See those great distances
it costs MONEY to ship stuff across those distances.
Particularly since there are very few if no roads at all, no real lines
either
So the ONLY way to ship stuff in is by air
That COSTS MONEY
PARTICULARLY if you don't have enough volume to make bulk shipments
cost-effective

But no surprise that you two idiots are clueless about simple economics.


Did you find a turd in your cornflakes this morning?

You seem to be calling _everybody_ names here recently. Sure there is
a transport problem.

Sees to be a common problem with some of the 10 year old "adults" who
frequent this group...



Some would think something could be done to facilitate a poor
community, like the one mentioned. You could offer something other
than being an asshole.

No need to reply.....

In article ,
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 21:17:44 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

The *fact* is that employers do
want this information

G' ahead and be a pussy and give them what they want, then. I'll
continue to defend my rights to freedom and privacy.

Let me guess; you're unemployed.

No. I haven't been unemployed since I was 17. And since I own my own
successful business, I don't plan to ever apply for a job again in my
life. Just hate the Orwellian nightmare that's unfolding. The
information you so freely give away, will be used by others to bite you
in the ****ing ass, hard. Have fun with that.

On Dec 7, 9:17*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 18:43:13 -0600, " Attila Iskander"





wrote:

wrote in message
....
On Dec 7, 5:43 pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:22:53 -0600, " Attila Iskander"

wrote:
Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

Arguable point about "best country in the world"
And Canada has it's share of "goofs".

_$28 cabbage, $65 chicken, and other insane food prices in Northern
Canada _

"...It’s not just food, either — necessary sundries like diapers and
sanitary napkins are also outrageously expensive."

http://grist.org/list/28-cabbage-65-chicken-and-other-insane-food-pri....
#
#
# Good find, my friend. *Where's HomelessGuy when you need him?
# According to him, why everything is peachy keen up there in Canada
# with a perfect economy and bad
# stuff only happens in the USA. * At least here peppers and cabbage
# don't cost $15 a pound.

DOH !
* *Two ignoramuses licking each other's butts

Look at a map, dummy
See those great distances
it costs MONEY to ship stuff across those distances.
Particularly since there are very few if no roads at all, no real lines
either
So the ONLY way to ship stuff in is by air
* *That COSTS MONEY
PARTICULARLY if you don't have enough volume to make bulk shipments
cost-effective

But no surprise that you two idiots are clueless about simple economics.

*And even more clueless about GEOGRAPHY. The vast mnajority of
Canadians live within miles of a major highway and/or rail line.
Better than 80% of Canadians are closer to major supply lines than
half of Kansans .

Interesting that you'd chime in with the nasty, attacking,
profanity laden ignoramus.




Most of what I need can be purchased with 15 miles for within 5-7% of
what most Americans pay for it - some things even less - the odd thing
a bit more. *Milk, bread, eggs and meat are slighly less expensive in
the states. Gas is taxed less - so is significantly cheaper - as is
BOOZE- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well ain't that special. The obvious point here, that went
right over your head is that HomeLessGuy regularly opens
attacks on the USA for exactly this kind of thing. He finds
something, somewhere, anything to bitch about in the USA.
So, yeah, I'm, fully aware of the remoteness. But still it hard to
figure
how that alone turns a cabbage into $15.

And maybe I'm a bit better informed than you are. Ever
watch Ice Pilots on cable? They follow Buffalo Air that
hauls freight to those very remote locations. And as I
recall, the cost of hauling gasoline to the most remote
airbase in Canada was about equal to the cost of the
gasoline. In other words, for $4 you could send a
gallon of gas. So, .75 pepper, plus maybe $2 to ship
it. Seems a long way from the prices in that link.

On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 08:56:45 -0500, George
wrote:





Not disputing troubled "home guy" but how much do you suppose it adds to
the cost of a crate of produce if you load it on an airplane with 5
other crates and fly it 1,000 miles into the most distant of the
Northwest territories?

Have you been watching Ice Pilots? That Electra sucks a lot of fuel
every mile. In one show they were transporting fuel to some distant
outpost and burned as much as they delivered.

http://www.what2fly.com/operating_co...ectra_l188.php
$11 per mile


Operating Costs Per Hour

Other Related Information



Fuel Cost Per Hour:

$3834.47



Fuel Cost Per Gallon: $5.47



Oil Cost Per Hour:

$4.00



Fuel Type: Jet-A

On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 08:56:45 -0500, George
wrote:

On 12/7/2012 6:17 PM, wrote:
On Dec 7, 5:43 pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:22:53 -0600, " Attila Iskander"

wrote:
Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

Arguable point about "best country in the world"
And Canada has it's share of "goofs".

_$28 cabbage, $65 chicken, and other insane food prices in Northern
Canada _

"...Its not just food, either €” necessary sundries like diapers and
sanitary napkins are also outrageously expensive."

http://grist.org/list/28-cabbage-65-chicken-and-other-insane-food-pri...



Good find, my friend. Where's HomelessGuy when you need him?
According to him, why everything is peachy keen up there in Canada
with a perfect economy and bad
stuff only happens in the USA. At least here peppers and cabbage
don't cost $15 a pound.


Not disputing troubled "home guy" but how much do you suppose it adds to
the cost of a crate of produce if you load it on an airplane with 5
other crates and fly it 1,000 miles into the most distant of the
Northwest territories?

Rom Northern Air Cargo website:
http://www.nacargo.com/shipping/rates.php

The formula to calculate total charges is weight x /lb. rate x current
fuel surcharge x tax = total

For example: a 72 lb. widget from Anchorage to Bethel would be charged
as follows;

72 lb. x .74 (rate) = $53.28
$53.28 x 12% (fuel*) = $59.67
$59.67 x 6.25% (tax) = $63.40 total charges

Effective Date: January 01, 2011

That is AMERICAN North on scheduled flights.

InnCanada, First Air, flying from Resolute to Arctic Bay,1-10KG is
$40/kg11-15Kg is $50/Kg, 16-20 is $67/kg, 21-25 is $83/kg, all the way
up to 41-44KG at $141/kg.

So, you get a pallet of cabbage, weighing 35KG into Resolute and want
to ship it to Arctic Bay, it will cost you $3990 to ship it. Say each
cabbage weighs 1Kg (2.2 lbs) the cost per cabbage is $141.

That's just the "base charge" - on top of that, add a 6.5% NavCanada
surcharge and a 20% fuel surcharge.

Resolute to Arctic Bay is a short hop. 35 Kg to Pond Inlet is $849 per
Kg according to the Domestic Cargo Rates published by First Air at
http://www.firstair.ca/flying/tariff...c-cargo-rates/.

You don't have to take my word for it - you can look it up and read it
yourself. However, the population of Pond Inlet is 1549 people.
Arctic Bay is 823. Resoltute bay is something like 225. Pangnirtung is
1325. And miles of nothing in between.

In comparison, I can ship that same pallet of cabbage today from
Waterloo Ontario to Victoria BC for $387 - guaranteed delivery by 9am
tuesday - or by next friday for $137.

On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 12:58:00 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 08:56:45 -0500, George
wrote:

On 12/7/2012 6:17 PM, wrote:
On Dec 7, 5:43 pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:22:53 -0600, " Attila Iskander"

wrote:
Best country in the world - and goofs like you staying away will help
keep it that way.

Arguable point about "best country in the world"
And Canada has it's share of "goofs".

_$28 cabbage, $65 chicken, and other insane food prices in Northern
Canada _

"...Its not just food, either €” necessary sundries like diapers and
sanitary napkins are also outrageously expensive."

http://grist.org/list/28-cabbage-65-chicken-and-other-insane-food-pri...



Good find, my friend. Where's HomelessGuy when you need him?
According to him, why everything is peachy keen up there in Canada
with a perfect economy and bad
stuff only happens in the USA. At least here peppers and cabbage
don't cost $15 a pound.


Not disputing troubled "home guy" but how much do you suppose it adds to
the cost of a crate of produce if you load it on an airplane with 5
other crates and fly it 1,000 miles into the most distant of the
Northwest territories?

Rom Northern Air Cargo website:
http://www.nacargo.com/shipping/rates.php

The formula to calculate total charges is weight x /lb. rate x current
fuel surcharge x tax = total

For example: a 72 lb. widget from Anchorage to Bethel would be charged
as follows;

72 lb. x .74 (rate) = $53.28
$53.28 x 12% (fuel*) = $59.67
$59.67 x 6.25% (tax) = $63.40 total charges

Effective Date: January 01, 2011

That is AMERICAN North on scheduled flights.

InnCanada, First Air, flying from Resolute to Arctic Bay,1-10KG is
$40/kg11-15Kg is $50/Kg, 16-20 is $67/kg, 21-25 is $83/kg, all the way
up to 41-44KG at $141/kg.

So, you get a pallet of cabbage, weighing 35KG into Resolute and want
to ship it to Arctic Bay, it will cost you $3990 to ship it. Say each
cabbage weighs 1Kg (2.2 lbs) the cost per cabbage is $141.

That's just the "base charge" - on top of that, add a 6.5% NavCanada
surcharge and a 20% fuel surcharge.

Resolute to Arctic Bay is a short hop. 35 Kg to Pond Inlet is $849 per
Kg according to the Domestic Cargo Rates published by First Air at
http://www.firstair.ca/flying/tariff...c-cargo-rates/.

You don't have to take my word for it - you can look it up and read it
yourself. However, the population of Pond Inlet is 1549 people.
Arctic Bay is 823. Resoltute bay is something like 225. Pangnirtung is
1325. And miles of nothing in between.

In comparison, I can ship that same pallet of cabbage today from
Waterloo Ontario to Victoria BC for $387 - guaranteed delivery by 9am
tuesday - or by next friday for $137.
Just found more - from Winnipeg to Edmonton, 1-6kg =$70, 7-97kg is
$10.14/kg, and 486kg and up is $9.68/kg by air.

From Winnipeg to Pangnirtung, 1-5kg is $47
6-98Kg is only 8.95/kg - Pretty reasonable when you come down to it -
but that is from a main city hub, where fuel costs and everything else
are a lot lower - and scheduled flights are used. Those hypothetical
cabbages would get to Pangnirtung from Winterpeg for $312.55 - a cost
of $8.95 each.