I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid
Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?

Sorry for the OT post and my lack of $ knowledge. I've got until April 15.

Jim

On 4/7/12 7:01 PM, gonjah wrote:
I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid
Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?

Sorry for the OT post and my lack of $ knowledge. I've got until April 15.

Jim

You might look at their Balanced Index Fund.
http://tinyurl.com/6y3e62
It splits the money roughly 60% stocks and 40% bonds.

On 4/7/12 8:01 PM, gonjah wrote:
I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to
avoid Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?

Sorry for the OT post and my lack of $ knowledge. I've got until April
15.

Jim

I would suggest parking the money in their Money Market ( VMMXX ) fund
at first. You can move it around later when you have more time to
research something to your liking.

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/fun...FundIntExt=INT

for a more targeted forum for investing, try
http://www.city-data.com/forum/investing/

gonjah gonjah.net wrote:
I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?

Sorry for the OT post and my lack of $ knowledge. I've got until April 15.

Jim

You put money in determined by the markets. I don't think things are going
to get better any time soon. Right now I would remain mostly cautious.
Stick half in vanguard retirement fund. Put the other half in whatever year
your retiring, like vanguard retirement 2020 .

Greg

On 4/7/2012 7:44 PM, gregz wrote:
gonjahgonjah.net wrote:
I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?

Sorry for the OT post and my lack of $ knowledge. I've got until April 15.

Jim
You put money in determined by the markets. I don't think things are going
to get better any time soon. Right now I would remain mostly cautious.
Stick half in vanguard retirement fund. Put the other half in whatever year
your retiring, like vanguard retirement 2020 .

Greg

Wow. I had no idea that's what those numbers meant. Do you know what
Expense Ratio I should be looking at?

BTW: I'm 57 and my wife is 52.

On Apr 7, 5:01*pm, gonjah gonjah.net wrote:

I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid
Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?

Don't rush into anything. If you don't know what fund you want now,
just pick the Vanguard Prime Money Market fund because that way you'll
satisfy the IRS for 2011 and will be in a very safe investment. You
can switch to different Vanguard funds later on. A book like Bogle on
Mutual Funds, by Vanguard founder Jack Bogle, can help you select
funds for your needs.

Don't try to select funds according to ratings or performance because
that hasn't worked well. It's a lot more important to select the
right types of funds and proportions of them and to keep your costs
(expense ratios) low.

Also good for information is the BogleHeads.org forum , and
Morningstar.com has several forums, including one for just Vanguard
funds:

http://socialize.morningstar.com/New...s/default.aspx

I strongly suggest you take a look at how different types of funds
have done in the past by going to Morningstar and graphing VTSMX
(total US stock market), VBMFX (total US bond market), and VGTSX
(total foreign stock market). Specify the maximum time period, and
don't just look at the default graph that displays growth of $10,000
but also the share price graph as well (choose the "growth" button to
bring up growth, price, and volatility graphs). You also want to see
the share prices graph to get an idea of the ups and downs -- notice
that the bond fund's share price has been much more steady than those
of the stock funds. You can choose a mix some or all these funds or
even buy all 3 funds packaged together, in different proportions of
stocks vs. bonds, with Vanguard's Target date funds.

gonjah gonjah.net wrote:
On 4/7/2012 7:44 PM, gregz wrote:
gonjahgonjah.net wrote:
I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?

Sorry for the OT post and my lack of $ knowledge. I've got until April 15.

Jim
You put money in determined by the markets. I don't think things are going
to get better any time soon. Right now I would remain mostly cautious.
Stick half in vanguard retirement fund. Put the other half in whatever year
your retiring, like vanguard retirement 2020 .

Greg

Wow. I had no idea that's what those numbers meant. Do you know what
Expense Ratio I should be looking at?

BTW: I'm 57 and my wife is 52.

I would have to look up expense ratio ??

Greg

"larry moe 'n curly" wrote:
On Apr 7, 5:01 pm, gonjah gonjah.net wrote:

I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid
Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?

Don't rush into anything. If you don't know what fund you want now,
just pick the Vanguard Prime Money Market fund because that way you'll
satisfy the IRS for 2011 and will be in a very safe investment. You
can switch to different Vanguard funds later on. A book like Bogle on
Mutual Funds, by Vanguard founder Jack Bogle, can help you select
funds for your needs.

Don't try to select funds according to ratings or performance because
that hasn't worked well. It's a lot more important to select the
right types of funds and proportions of them and to keep your costs
(expense ratios) low.

I selected according to performance, and made a bundle. Timing is of upmost
importance.

Greg

Also good for information is the BogleHeads.org forum , and
Morningstar.com has several forums, including one for just Vanguard
funds:

http://socialize.morningstar.com/New...s/default.aspx

I strongly suggest you take a look at how different types of funds
have done in the past by going to Morningstar and graphing VTSMX
(total US stock market), VBMFX (total US bond market), and VGTSX
(total foreign stock market). Specify the maximum time period, and
don't just look at the default graph that displays growth of $10,000
but also the share price graph as well (choose the "growth" button to
bring up growth, price, and volatility graphs). You also want to see
the share prices graph to get an idea of the ups and downs -- notice
that the bond fund's share price has been much more steady than those
of the stock funds. You can choose a mix some or all these funds or
even buy all 3 funds packaged together, in different proportions of
stocks vs. bonds, with Vanguard's Target date funds.

On 4/7/2012 9:07 PM, gregz wrote:
gonjahgonjah.net wrote:
On 4/7/2012 7:44 PM, gregz wrote:
gonjahgonjah.net wrote:
I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?

Sorry for the OT post and my lack of $ knowledge. I've got until April 15.

Jim
You put money in determined by the markets. I don't think things are going
to get better any time soon. Right now I would remain mostly cautious.
Stick half in vanguard retirement fund. Put the other half in whatever year
your retiring, like vanguard retirement 2020 .

Greg
Wow. I had no idea that's what those numbers meant. Do you know what
Expense Ratio I should be looking at?

BTW: I'm 57 and my wife is 52.
I would have to look up expense ratio ??

Greg

I think it has to do with the cost of administering the fund.


"Definition of 'Expense Ratio'

A measure of what it costs an investment company to operate amutualfund
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/expenseratio.asp#. An expense
ratio is determined through an annual calculation, where a fund's
operating expenses are divided by the average dollar value of its assets
under management. Operating expenses are taken out of a fund's assets
and lower the return to a fund's investors."

Sorry for the sloppy cut and paste.

The Vanguard site has some info I need to review too.

On 4/7/2012 9:07 PM, gregz wrote:
"larry moe 'n wrote:
On Apr 7, 5:01 pm, gonjahgonjah.net wrote:
I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid
Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?
Don't rush into anything. If you don't know what fund you want now,
just pick the Vanguard Prime Money Market fund because that way you'll
satisfy the IRS for 2011 and will be in a very safe investment. You
can switch to different Vanguard funds later on. A book like Bogle on
Mutual Funds, by Vanguard founder Jack Bogle, can help you select
funds for your needs.

Don't try to select funds according to ratings or performance because
that hasn't worked well. It's a lot more important to select the
right types of funds and proportions of them and to keep your costs
(expense ratios) low.
I selected according to performance, and made a bundle. Timing is of upmost
importance.

Greg

For now I'll probably follow your advice. I can move it around later
"the stooges" said.

I think I'm afraid I'll forget about it and get stuck with a tax bill.

My wife has a much larger sum in there I need to review too.

Also good for information is the BogleHeads.org forum , and
Morningstar.com has several forums, including one for just Vanguard
funds:

http://socialize.morningstar.com/New...s/default.aspx

I strongly suggest you take a look at how different types of funds
have done in the past by going to Morningstar and graphing VTSMX
(total US stock market), VBMFX (total US bond market), and VGTSX
(total foreign stock market). Specify the maximum time period, and
don't just look at the default graph that displays growth of $10,000
but also the share price graph as well (choose the "growth" button to
bring up growth, price, and volatility graphs). You also want to see
the share prices graph to get an idea of the ups and downs -- notice
that the bond fund's share price has been much more steady than those
of the stock funds. You can choose a mix some or all these funds or
even buy all 3 funds packaged together, in different proportions of
stocks vs. bonds, with Vanguard's Target date funds.

gonjah gonjah.net wrote:
On 4/7/2012 9:07 PM, gregz wrote:
"larry moe 'n wrote:
On Apr 7, 5:01 pm, gonjahgonjah.net wrote:
I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid
Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?
Don't rush into anything. If you don't know what fund you want now,
just pick the Vanguard Prime Money Market fund because that way you'll
satisfy the IRS for 2011 and will be in a very safe investment. You
can switch to different Vanguard funds later on. A book like Bogle on
Mutual Funds, by Vanguard founder Jack Bogle, can help you select
funds for your needs.

Don't try to select funds according to ratings or performance because
that hasn't worked well. It's a lot more important to select the
right types of funds and proportions of them and to keep your costs
(expense ratios) low.
I selected according to performance, and made a bundle. Timing is of upmost
importance.

Greg

For now I'll probably follow your advice. I can move it around later "the stooges" said.

I think I'm afraid I'll forget about it and get stuck with a tax bill.

My wife has a much larger sum in there I need to review too.


Go for it. !!! Before I started moving money around I was scared. I was
moving money around while I was still working. I ran into a situation last
summer, after retirement, that I did not see exactly why I could not
transfer like I wanted too. That cost me some money. There are limitations
on returning to previously owned funds. Usually a three month wait.

Greg


Also good for information is the BogleHeads.org forum , and
Morningstar.com has several forums, including one for just Vanguard
funds:

http://socialize.morningstar.com/New...s/default.aspx

I strongly suggest you take a look at how different types of funds
have done in the past by going to Morningstar and graphing VTSMX
(total US stock market), VBMFX (total US bond market), and VGTSX
(total foreign stock market). Specify the maximum time period, and
don't just look at the default graph that displays growth of $10,000
but also the share price graph as well (choose the "growth" button to
bring up growth, price, and volatility graphs). You also want to see
the share prices graph to get an idea of the ups and downs -- notice
that the bond fund's share price has been much more steady than those
of the stock funds. You can choose a mix some or all these funds or
even buy all 3 funds packaged together, in different proportions of
stocks vs. bonds, with Vanguard's Target date funds.

On 4/7/2012 10:41 PM, gregz wrote:
gonjahgonjah.net wrote:
On 4/7/2012 9:07 PM, gregz wrote:
"larry moe 'n wrote:
On Apr 7, 5:01 pm, gonjahgonjah.net wrote:
I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid
Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?
Don't rush into anything. If you don't know what fund you want now,
just pick the Vanguard Prime Money Market fund because that way you'll
satisfy the IRS for 2011 and will be in a very safe investment. You
can switch to different Vanguard funds later on. A book like Bogle on
Mutual Funds, by Vanguard founder Jack Bogle, can help you select
funds for your needs.

Don't try to select funds according to ratings or performance because
that hasn't worked well. It's a lot more important to select the
right types of funds and proportions of them and to keep your costs
(expense ratios) low.
I selected according to performance, and made a bundle. Timing is of upmost
importance.

Greg
For now I'll probably follow your advice. I can move it around later "the stooges" said.

I think I'm afraid I'll forget about it and get stuck with a tax bill.

My wife has a much larger sum in there I need to review too.

Go for it. !!! Before I started moving money around I was scared. I was
moving money around while I was still working. I ran into a situation last
summer, after retirement, that I did not see exactly why I could not
transfer like I wanted too. That cost me some money. There are limitations
on returning to previously owned funds. Usually a three month wait.

Greg



That's good to know. Thanks!

Jim

On Sat, 07 Apr 2012 19:01:48 -0500, gonjah gonjah.net wrote:

I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid
Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?

Sorry for the OT post and my lack of $ knowledge. I've got until April 15.

Jim


It's called the Doug fund and I can give you the address to mail to.
And the advantage to this fund is you can give money all year around.

Seriously I don't know. I let my cpa wife handle this stuff but I
thought there were some decent sites that might help answer this type
question. I forgot the names right now but I'm sure google will
bring them up. Oh yeah... one is motley fool.

I'd suggest to open your yellow pages phone book, and look for financial
planners. Call four or five of them. Go with the one who sounds easy going,
and who makes sense when he speaks.

In my case, what very small bit of retirement funds I have, I like to
support business and industry. I figure they are doing useful work with my
money. As opposed to government, who are hiring paper shufflers, and hiring
people like DHS and TSA and other agents to take away my freedoms.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"gonjah" gonjah.net wrote in message
net...
I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid
Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?

Sorry for the OT post and my lack of $ knowledge. I've got until April 15.

Jim

In article



I selected according to performance, and made a bundle. Timing is of upmost
importance.


Over the long run, given his age and life expectancy, 30 years or so is
still the long run, timing sucks according to all the studies. The only
time time has anything to do with my investing for retirement is every 6
months when I rebalance. Other than that, I keep an eye on their
Morningstar rating and bail when it hits 3.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

In article

,
Go for it. !!! Before I started moving money around I was scared. I was
moving money around while I was still working. I ran into a situation last
summer, after retirement, that I did not see exactly why I could not
transfer like I wanted too. That cost me some money. There are limitations
on returning to previously owned funds. Usually a three month wait.


Check to make sure it it only previously owned funds. Most now a
days have some hit for selling for any reason in the first 90 days. They
don't want frequent traders running up the costs for everyone else/

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

"gonjah" gonjah.net wrote in message
...

On 4/7/2012 7:44 PM, gregz wrote:
gonjahgonjah.net wrote:
I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid
Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?

Sorry for the OT post and my lack of $ knowledge. I've got until April
15.

You put money in determined by the markets. I don't think things are
going
to get better any time soon. Right now I would remain mostly cautious.
Stick half in vanguard retirement fund. Put the other half in whatever
year
your retiring, like vanguard retirement 2020 .

Wow. I had no idea that's what those numbers meant. Do you know what
Expense Ratio I should be looking at?

In most places, banks offer free investment advice (albeit probably
biased towards bank-owned funds.) The point is that the adviser
can explain technical terms on the spot, and you have the right to
require that all costs be identified. In exchange, you must decide
about "risk" in terms the bank understands.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On 4/7/2012 8:01 PM, gonjah wrote:
I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid
Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?

Sorry for the OT post and my lack of $ knowledge. I've got until April 15.

Jim
You have received a lot of different suggestions, most of which are much
too specific - given that no one knows anything about you other than
your age and that from your questions, you have little knowledge or
experience investing.

Fortunately, from my perspective, you have stumbled on to an excellent
mutual fund family. Vanguard is an extremely well managed fund family
known for low administrative expenses and a slightly more cautious
approach to their portfolios than most of their competitors. I've been
investing in Vanguard funds since the early 1970s and have been
extremely pleased with them.

As some others have suggested, Vanguard itself offers a lot of sound
advice on its web site and through some publications that you can order
from them.

Your decision to invest in mutual funds is a good one for someone who
does not have a lot of money to invest and does not know much about the
market. The advantages of a mutual fund is that the well managed ones
are advised by people who are less likely to make major errors choosing
stocks than are total laymen, and the funds own shares in many more
securities than you would be likely to own as an individual, thereby
spreading the risk if one or some of those securities bomb. The
disadvantage is that you are forfeiting control over precisely which
securities you own and are paying a management fee that somewhat reduces
potential profits. (However, don't forget that if you were buying
shares of individual stocks, you would be paying brokerage commissions
that in many cases are a larger percentage of the investment price than
you pay as a mutual fund expense - especially for purchases of a small
number of shares, also known as odd lot purchases.)

Vanguard funds generally have an expense ratio lower than their
competitors offering similar funds.

I completely disagree with the one poster who indicated that timing is
everything and that you can make a bundle by "timing the market" -
knowing when to buy low and sell high. The bottom line is that even the
experts can not and do not consistently predict accurately how
individual stocks, much less the entire market will move. Many well
done analyses have shown that the overwhelming percentage of people who
trade frequently end up making less money than those who largely buy and
hold and ride out the downturns. Every time you sell at a profit, you
are going to be paying capital gains taxes. If you sell in less than
one year, the "short term capital gains" are taxed at the same rate as
bank interest and ordinary dividends. After one year, the "long term"
capital gains tax rate will usually be lower than the taxes you pay on
your other sources of income. A lot depends upon when you believe you
may need or want to sell in order to have access to the dollars you
invested versus wanting to live off the dividends/interest/capital gains
that a particular investment earns for you. That time frame is known as
your investment horizon. If it is very short, only a few months, you
are unlikely to make substantially more in a risky investment than you
would make in something much safer.

You also really need to try to understand your own tolerance for risk.
Can you sleep well at night knowing that your investment may
periodically dip 5%, or maybe 10%, or even more lower than the price you
paid when you bought it? Or would you "sell low" because you are too
afraid that the price will never come back before you need to reclaim
the money you invested? That's known as your risk tolerance.
Everyone's personal circumstances differ, as do their investment
horizons and risk tolerances. There is no one size fits all investment.

I also am not a fan of investment advisers for small investors. If you
are even modestly intelligent, you can teach yourself what you need to
know to avoid the worst mistakes. Investment advisers are likely either
to push the products that make the largest sales commissions for them,
or if they are independent of any investment house and charge an hourly
flat rate for advice, you may spend money to hear the same advice you
will read on your own.

One final thought, which I didn't see referred to in any of the other
postings. Mutual funds come in 2 flavors, no-load funds and funds that
charge fees either when you buy or when you sell the shares of those
funds. The funds with fees (often call front loaded when the fees are
charged at the time of purchase) often claim that they provide a higher
percentage of income to their investors than do no-load funds. The
truth however, is that when all the management costs and investor
expenses are factored into the equations that calculate true investment
yield for the investor, the difference between no-load funds and loaded
funds disappears and in many cases, the no-load funds provide a higher
net yield than their loaded counterparts. In many cases the difference
between the 2 types is substantially less than 1% averaged across an
entire category of funds or fund family. If you will be buying and
selling frequently, the no-load funds are much cheaper as you are not
penalized by a commission for every transaction. Vanguard funds are all
no-load funds.

In summary, do some reading, try to understand your own needs and
attitudes, and don't sweat it if you make a little mistake. I don't
want to demean the amount that you are investing, but $5K-$10K is not
going to make the difference between being able to retire or not, and in
any case, you can't make such a big mistake with any well regarded
mutual fund family that you are likely to lose more than 20-30% of your
investment and the likelihood is that you would at worst be likely to
lose a lot less, and more likely make more after taxes than you would in
a money market account or CD. One final word of advice - do not be
greedy! You are more likely to win the lottery than you are turn your
modest investment into major money over the next 2-3 decades. Slow and
steady and sleep well at night with whatever decision you make. Good luck!

On 4/8/2012 6:48 AM, Doug wrote:
On Sat, 07 Apr 2012 19:01:48 -0500, gonjahgonjah.net wrote:

I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid
Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?

Sorry for the OT post and my lack of $ knowledge. I've got until April 15.

Jim

It's called the Doug fund and I can give you the address to mail to.
And the advantage to this fund is you can give money all year around.

Seriously I don't know. I let my cpa wife handle this stuff but I
thought there were some decent sites that might help answer this type
question. I forgot the names right now but I'm sure google will
bring them up. Oh yeah... one is motley fool.

Yup. Having a CPA for a wife is a real plus.

My wife trusts me. BBA gawk I didn't want to spend one more second in
a classroom. I haven't opened a serious financial text since graduation.
I'd much rather watch paint dry,.

On 4/8/2012 10:53 AM, Peter wrote:
On 4/7/2012 8:01 PM, gonjah wrote:
I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid
Fed income taxes

Anyone have a suggestion on which Vanguard fund they would pick?

Sorry for the OT post and my lack of $ knowledge. I've got until
April 15.

Jim
You have received a lot of different suggestions, most of which are
much too specific - given that no one knows anything about you other
than your age and that from your questions, you have little knowledge
or experience investing.

Fortunately, from my perspective, you have stumbled on to an excellent
mutual fund family. Vanguard is an extremely well managed fund family
known for low administrative expenses and a slightly more cautious
approach to their portfolios than most of their competitors. I've
been investing in Vanguard funds since the early 1970s and have been
extremely pleased with them.

As some others have suggested, Vanguard itself offers a lot of sound
advice on its web site and through some publications that you can
order from them.

Your decision to invest in mutual funds is a good one for someone who
does not have a lot of money to invest and does not know much about
the market. The advantages of a mutual fund is that the well managed
ones are advised by people who are less likely to make major errors
choosing stocks than are total laymen, and the funds own shares in
many more securities than you would be likely to own as an individual,
thereby spreading the risk if one or some of those securities bomb.
The disadvantage is that you are forfeiting control over precisely
which securities you own and are paying a management fee that somewhat
reduces potential profits. (However, don't forget that if you were
buying shares of individual stocks, you would be paying brokerage
commissions that in many cases are a larger percentage of the
investment price than you pay as a mutual fund expense - especially
for purchases of a small number of shares, also known as odd lot
purchases.)

Vanguard funds generally have an expense ratio lower than their
competitors offering similar funds.

I completely disagree with the one poster who indicated that timing is
everything and that you can make a bundle by "timing the market" -
knowing when to buy low and sell high. The bottom line is that even
the experts can not and do not consistently predict accurately how
individual stocks, much less the entire market will move. Many well
done analyses have shown that the overwhelming percentage of people
who trade frequently end up making less money than those who largely
buy and hold and ride out the downturns. Every time you sell at a
profit, you are going to be paying capital gains taxes. If you sell
in less than one year, the "short term capital gains" are taxed at the
same rate as bank interest and ordinary dividends. After one year,
the "long term" capital gains tax rate will usually be lower than the
taxes you pay on your other sources of income. A lot depends upon
when you believe you may need or want to sell in order to have access
to the dollars you invested versus wanting to live off the
dividends/interest/capital gains that a particular investment earns
for you. That time frame is known as your investment horizon. If it
is very short, only a few months, you are unlikely to make
substantially more in a risky investment than you would make in
something much safer.

You also really need to try to understand your own tolerance for risk.
Can you sleep well at night knowing that your investment may
periodically dip 5%, or maybe 10%, or even more lower than the price
you paid when you bought it? Or would you "sell low" because you are
too afraid that the price will never come back before you need to
reclaim the money you invested? That's known as your risk tolerance.
Everyone's personal circumstances differ, as do their investment
horizons and risk tolerances. There is no one size fits all investment.

I also am not a fan of investment advisers for small investors. If
you are even modestly intelligent, you can teach yourself what you
need to know to avoid the worst mistakes. Investment advisers are
likely either to push the products that make the largest sales
commissions for them, or if they are independent of any investment
house and charge an hourly flat rate for advice, you may spend money
to hear the same advice you will read on your own.

One final thought, which I didn't see referred to in any of the other
postings. Mutual funds come in 2 flavors, no-load funds and funds
that charge fees either when you buy or when you sell the shares of
those funds. The funds with fees (often call front loaded when the
fees are charged at the time of purchase) often claim that they
provide a higher percentage of income to their investors than do
no-load funds. The truth however, is that when all the management
costs and investor expenses are factored into the equations that
calculate true investment yield for the investor, the difference
between no-load funds and loaded funds disappears and in many cases,
the no-load funds provide a higher net yield than their loaded
counterparts. In many cases the difference between the 2 types is
substantially less than 1% averaged across an entire category of funds
or fund family. If you will be buying and selling frequently, the
no-load funds are much cheaper as you are not penalized by a
commission for every transaction. Vanguard funds are all no-load funds.

In summary, do some reading, try to understand your own needs and
attitudes, and don't sweat it if you make a little mistake. I don't
want to demean the amount that you are investing, but $5K-$10K is not
going to make the difference between being able to retire or not, and
in any case, you can't make such a big mistake with any well regarded
mutual fund family that you are likely to lose more than 20-30% of
your investment and the likelihood is that you would at worst be
likely to lose a lot less, and more likely make more after taxes than
you would in a money market account or CD. One final word of advice -
do not be greedy! You are more likely to win the lottery than you are
turn your modest investment into major money over the next 2-3
decades. Slow and steady and sleep well at night with whatever
decision you make. Good luck!

Yeah. It's a just to get our taxes down. This appears to be a
no-brainer. We have a considerably larger amount in a employer
contributed 403B and other investments like equity. We're not set but
better off than most.

All Vanguard IRAs are all no-load I believe. But there maybe exceptions
(?). The one I picked is no-load. If I learned anything from Clark
Howard it's that.

I took the "timing" remark is in context of Greg's experience. On the ER
comment, I finally put 2 and 2 together.

Vanguard's site is pretty good for first time IRA investors from what I
can see. Looking back on it, I could probably come to a reasonable
conclusion just using Vanguard but these comments helped.

BTW: Excellent post.

This group has been SO helpful to me over the years.

But I knew I was pushing it with a OT post of this nature. I was very
pleasantly surprised.

Thanks to everyone. Very good comments IMHO.

BTW: It's in a moderate risk no-load fund appropriate for my age with a
low ER. The 403B is in a similar fund. I'll sleep well tonight. Now I
can file and get $80 bucks. Casino here I come!

You don't plan to keep your money, then? Casinos lead
to bankrupcy and crime, not retirement.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"gonjah" gonjah.net wrote in message
net...

Now I can file and get $80 bucks. Casino here I come!

gonjah gonjah.net wrote:
This group has been SO helpful to me over the years.

But I knew I was pushing it with a OT post of this nature. I was very pleasantly surprised.

Thanks to everyone. Very good comments IMHO.

BTW: It's in a moderate risk no-load fund appropriate for my age with a
low ER. The 403B is in a similar fund. I'll sleep well tonight. Now I can
file and get $80 bucks. Casino here I come!

Investment advisors will always tend to put themselves in a safe mode when
handing out advice. Luckily when the market was heading downward 2008 , I
went safe. As the market bottomed, I said, how much lower can it go. Much
of my money was put in vanguard capital value fund. It outperformed
everything. As a result, I gained 50% over what I would had had, had I done
nothing. The first thing an investment advisor will say, put more money in.
Sure. When I first started in vanguard, they said diversify. Fools. I lost
money 25 years ago. Should have been all good stock funds. High risk vs low
risk, I say your age and retirement date is not the most important issue.

Greg

On 4/8/2012 12:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
You don't plan to keep your money, then? Casinos lead
to bankrupcy and crime, not retirement.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


I was joking. Almost every time, I went to a casino I eventually lost.
Poker tables *can* be a lot of fun though.

When I sit down at Black-Jack almost every time I'll win then go into a
long losing streak. When I started playing 5card Stud I did much better.
Anyone playing anything other than BJ or table poker is just throwing
money away. Really the same can be said about BJ but that's another story.

Poker, in a casino, is incredibly exciting. You're playing against
other players as opposed to the house. It becomes much more about skill.

On 4/8/2012 1:16 PM, gregz wrote:
gonjahgonjah.net wrote:
This group has been SO helpful to me over the years.

But I knew I was pushing it with a OT post of this nature. I was very pleasantly surprised.

Thanks to everyone. Very good comments IMHO.

BTW: It's in a moderate risk no-load fund appropriate for my age with a
low ER. The 403B is in a similar fund. I'll sleep well tonight. Now I can
file and get $80 bucks. Casino here I come!
Investment advisors will always tend to put themselves in a safe mode when
handing out advice. Luckily when the market was heading downward 2008 , I
went safe. As the market bottomed, I said, how much lower can it go. Much
of my money was put in vanguard capital value fund. It outperformed
everything. As a result, I gained 50% over what I would had had, had I done
nothing. The first thing an investment advisor will say, put more money in.
Sure. When I first started in vanguard, they said diversify. Fools. I lost
money 25 years ago. Should have been all good stock funds. High risk vs low
risk, I say your age and retirement date is not the most important issue.

Greg

My wife's motto is "Buy high and sell low."

"Go with what you know."

My quickest and best gains were in real estate and I enjoy it. You can
touch it and work on it.

gregz wrote:
"larry moe 'n curly" wrote:

Don't try to select funds according to ratings or performance because
that hasn't worked well. It's a lot more important to select the
right types of funds and proportions of them and to keep your costs
(expense ratios) low.

I selected according to performance, and made a bundle. Timing is of upmost
importance.

For the vast majority of people, not really because the success rate
for timing has been so low y wouldn't suffer if they took it for
granite, for all intensive purposes.

The Hulbert Financial Digest, which has been tracking hundreds of
investment newsletters since the 1980s, has found that the vast
majority of market timing newsletters have done worse than the overall
stock market, including the newsletters written by people who have
CFAs or financial PhDs and who know how to spell "utmost" correctly.
Worse, the timers have usually lagged the market even when risk is
factored, which is surprising because timers tend to go to cash (money
market funds) when they feel the market is going to fall, and cash has
lower risk than stocks. Here's one of Hulbert's old NY Times columns
about this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/bu...nd/11stra.html

Stormin Mormon wrote:

I'd suggest to open your yellow pages phone book, and look for financial
planners. Call four or five of them. Go with the one who sounds easy going,
and who makes sense when he speaks.

Most of them are smooth talkers who seem like they're making sense
even when they're selling something ridiculous or bad for the
customer. The worst financial planners play way too much to people's
fears about about taxes or losing money on investments and try to make
financial matters seem more complicated than they actually are, just
to make customers think they can't handle anything on their own but
need a Certified Expert.

It may take as much skill to properly choose a financial planner as to
choose mutual funds. That's not to say financial planning is only
about investing, but it's usually best to avoid retail sales people.

On 4/8/2012 2:07 PM, larry moe 'n curly wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd suggest to open your yellow pages phone book, and look for financial
planners. Call four or five of them. Go with the one who sounds easy going,
and who makes sense when he speaks.
Most of them are smooth talkers who seem like they're making sense
even when they're selling something ridiculous or bad for the
customer. The worst financial planners play way too much to people's
fears about about taxes or losing money on investments and try to make
financial matters seem more complicated than they actually are, just
to make customers think they can't handle anything on their own but
need a Certified Expert.

It may take as much skill to properly choose a financial planner as to
choose mutual funds. That's not to say financial planning is only
about investing, but it's usually best to avoid retail sales people.

I hear the term CPF kicked around a lot these days. I think if I had
millions to invest it might make since.

BTW: The first thing I did was call the bank and asked about IRA's. They
gave me a brochure and a name to call. I talked to a financial planner
who tried to sell me a load-fund. Sirens went off. To his credit: he
told me I could go to Vanguard and do it myself. Conversation over.

gonjah wrote:

Yeah. It's a just to get our taxes down. This appears to be a no-brainer.

Even compared to a Roth IRA? Unlike other IRAs, Roths are never
deductible, but all profits are tax-free, not just tax-deferred, and
there's no requirement to start withdrawing money from the account
after age 70.5 and thereby start pay taxes on that money. Also with
Roth IRAs you can withdraw contributions at any time with no penalty
or tax (not so with the profits).

The Hulbert Financial Digest has found that Morningstar's 5-star funds
have tended to underperform in the future, which isn't unusual for
funds with high ratings, regardless of who does the ratings. Forbes
magazine says its Honor Roll and Best Buy funds also tend to became
underachievers, and it's probably the only publication that very
openly admits that flaw of its rating system. Forbes instead
recommends paying more attention to costs, risk ratings, and asset
allocation.

On 4/8/2012 2:31 PM, larry moe 'n curly wrote:

gonjah wrote:
Yeah. It's a just to get our taxes down. This appears to be a no-brainer.
Even compared to a Roth IRA? Unlike other IRAs, Roths are never
deductible, but all profits are tax-free, not just tax-deferred, and
there's no requirement to start withdrawing money from the account
after age 70.5 and thereby start pay taxes on that money. Also with
Roth IRAs you can withdraw contributions at any time with no penalty
or tax (not so with the profits).

The Hulbert Financial Digest has found that Morningstar's 5-star funds
have tended to underperform in the future, which isn't unusual for
funds with high ratings, regardless of who does the ratings. Forbes
magazine says its Honor Roll and Best Buy funds also tend to became
underachievers, and it's probably the only publication that very
openly admits that flaw of its rating system. Forbes instead
recommends paying more attention to costs, risk ratings, and asset
allocation.

heh I'm looking at it as pay $900 or invest $6000. From that simple
POV it seems like a no-brainer.

If you read all my threads, you would see I haven't opened a financial
text since grad. There's a reason for that. I want someone to say: Trust
me and put your dough here.

Thanks for making me feel like a fool.

gonjah wrote:

I hear the term CPF kicked around a lot these days. I think if I had
millions to invest it might make since.

There are a lot of certifications, and one I've heard of is CFP,
Certified Financial Planner, which has certain college education
requirements and passing a test by the CFP trade group. There are
some other certifications that require no testing, just paying a
registration fee.

BTW: The first thing I did was call the bank and asked about IRA's. They
gave me a brochure and a name to call. I talked to a financial planner
who tried to sell me a load-fund. Sirens went off. To his credit: he
told me I could go to Vanguard and do it myself. Conversation over.

It's rare for a commissioned financial planner to do that because most
just spout lies about how their products are better than Vanguard's,
and a few will even "prove" that their products are cheaper.

On 4/8/2012 2:54 PM, larry moe 'n curly wrote:

gonjah wrote:
I hear the term CPF kicked around a lot these days. I think if I had
millions to invest it might make since.
There are a lot of certifications, and one I've heard of is CFP,
Certified Financial Planner, which has certain college education
requirements and passing a test by the CFP trade group. There are
some other certifications that require no testing, just paying a
registration fee.

BTW: The first thing I did was call the bank and asked about IRA's. They
gave me a brochure and a name to call. I talked to a financial planner
who tried to sell me a load-fund. Sirens went off. To his credit: he
told me I could go to Vanguard and do it myself. Conversation over.
It's rare for a commissioned financial planner to do that because most
just spout lies about how their products are better than Vanguard's,
and a few will even "prove" that their products are cheaper.

Being tax time, he was probably too busy to go through the routine. I
was expecting some pressure but because it was through my CU he maybe
working at some kind of discount.

Don Phillipson wrote:

In most places, banks offer free investment advice (albeit probably
biased towards bank-owned funds.) The point is that the adviser
can explain technical terms on the spot, and you have the right to
require that all costs be identified. In exchange, you must decide
about "risk" in terms the bank understands.

I read that in Canada the lowest cost mutual funds tend to be those
from banks, but in the US the situation is the opposite. Here the
typical financial adviser working in a bank is an independent seller
who rents office space from the bank and sells load funds. This is
usually also the situation with credit unions, which is really bad
because customers think credit unions are nonprofit organizations that
hold the customers' interests foremost. One of those sales people in
a bank once told me that an S&P 500 index fund with a 0.88% expense
ratio and 5% sales load was a bargain because so little of the expense
ratio went to management fees, and a 5% commission for a $10,000
investment was a cheap price for the advice I'd be getting.

Sounds true, to me. I've not shopped for financial planners, but your
counsell sounds right.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message
...


Stormin Mormon wrote:

I'd suggest to open your yellow pages phone book, and look for financial
planners. Call four or five of them. Go with the one who sounds easy
going,
and who makes sense when he speaks.

Most of them are smooth talkers who seem like they're making sense
even when they're selling something ridiculous or bad for the
customer. The worst financial planners play way too much to people's
fears about about taxes or losing money on investments and try to make
financial matters seem more complicated than they actually are, just
to make customers think they can't handle anything on their own but
need a Certified Expert.

It may take as much skill to properly choose a financial planner as to
choose mutual funds. That's not to say financial planning is only
about investing, but it's usually best to avoid retail sales people.

On the other hand, my advice to call several financial planners...... might
not hvae been the wisest thing to advise. Glad you have internal warning
sirens.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"gonjah" gonjah.net wrote in message
net...

BTW: The first thing I did was call the bank and asked about IRA's. They
gave me a brochure and a name to call. I talked to a financial planner
who tried to sell me a load-fund. Sirens went off. To his credit: he
told me I could go to Vanguard and do it myself. Conversation over.

"Peter" wrote in message
...
On 4/7/2012 8:01 PM, gonjah wrote:
I've got to put some money ( $5k but less than $10k) in a IRA to avoid
Fed income taxes


hold and ride out the downturns. Every time you sell at a profit, you are
going to be paying capital gains taxes. If you sell in less than one
year, the "short term capital gains" are taxed at the same rate as bank
interest and ordinary dividends. After one year, the "long term" capital
gains tax rate will usually be lower than the taxes you pay on your other
sources of income.

Does the buy and sell and paying capatial gain taxes apply with an IRA ?

Say buying a fund, going in and out of the fund and into and out of a money
market account .

I thought you mainly payed taxes on an IRA when you actually got the money
in your hands.

Ralph Mowery wrote:

Does the buy and sell and paying capital gain taxes apply with an IRA ?

No.

Say buying a fund, going in and out of the fund and into and out of a money
market account .

No tax bills then.

I thought you mainly payed taxes on an IRA when you actually got the money
in your hands.

Yes.

In article ,
gonjah gonjah.net wrote:

O
.


I was joking. Almost every time, I went to a casino I eventually lost.
Poker tables *can* be a lot of fun though.

The key to casinos is to take a certain amount of money and when
gone, leave. I liken that money to the cost of admission to that
particular theme park. However, unlike Disney World, I sometimes get out
of the casino with more than I came in with. Ain't NEVER had that happen
in Orlando (g).

re about skill.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

On 4/8/2012 7:14 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In astnet,
gonjahgonjah.net wrote:

O
.

I was joking. Almost every time, I went to a casino I eventually lost.
Poker tables *can* be a lot of fun though.
The key to casinos is to take a certain amount of money and when
gone, leave. I liken that money to the cost of admission to that
particular theme park. However, unlike Disney World, I sometimes get out
of the casino with more than I came in with. Ain't NEVER had that happen
in Orlando (g).

re about skill.

I can't recall $$ but I do remember having a lucky streak in the Las
Vegas Club BJ table. They have one of those unlimited deck machines
(like 8 decks or something) so counting is just not possible unless
you're rainman. One time at the MGM I played one hand and gained back
everything I lost at the Monte Carlo. I'm really a crappy gambler
because losing money makes me physically ill. I think the most I ever
lost was about $80 (BJ) and I thought I was going to throw-up. Funny
thing was I was up $100 and of course I had to go back. Got greedy. My
Father-in-Law likes to remind me of that day about every time I see him.

Yup, I'm a real big roller.

You know what's really fun is to play the don't pass line at the craps
table. My old boss (a CPA) and I were really cleaning up one afternoon
and we were hooting, hollering and high fiveing. The Pit Boss came over
and told us it's not polite to cheer when you win on the "don't pass"
because that means everyone else is losing. It was an Indian Casino so
you don't get out of line. They'll toss you in a heart beat. So we got
all somber and of course we started losing. So I went to the BJ table
and lost the rest in about 1 min.

I never play anymore. My ex Boss was the bad influence. It was all his
fault.

A couple friends of mine went to Disney in Florida. They said all the food
and concessions were quite expensive. I can imagine leaving with less money.

You could get a Scrooge costume, and go around, doing stickups? Naah, better
not.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...

The key to casinos is to take a certain amount of money and when
gone, leave. I liken that money to the cost of admission to that
particular theme park. However, unlike Disney World, I sometimes get out
of the casino with more than I came in with. Ain't NEVER had that happen
in Orlando (g).

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz