I am having a problem with a Maytag dishwasher. It is covered by a
Maytag extended warranty. It failed on December 22, 2011. It is
still not fixed because the needed part is on backorder until
February 15, 2012.

I am VERY disabled with ME, (Myalgic Encephalomyelitis) Hashimoto's
thyroiditis, neurally mediated hypotension, and orthostatic
intolerance. Washing dishes by hand is very difficult for me.

What is the best way for me to contact someone high up in Maytag who
might be able to do something? Thank you in advance for all
replies.
--
When I am in the kitchen, I often kick one of my cat's balls.
After I kick it, he will sometimes play with it for a few
seconds to several minutes. His favorite are the ones that
rattle. He'll play with any ball that makes noise.

On 1/13/2012 3:16 PM, Daniel Prince wrote:
I am having a problem with a Maytag dishwasher. It is covered by a
Maytag extended warranty. It failed on December 22, 2011. It is
still not fixed because the needed part is on backorder until
February 15, 2012.

I am VERY disabled with ME, (Myalgic Encephalomyelitis) Hashimoto's
thyroiditis, neurally mediated hypotension, and orthostatic
intolerance. Washing dishes by hand is very difficult for me.

What is the best way for me to contact someone high up in Maytag who
might be able to do something? Thank you in advance for all
replies.
You will have to talk to someone in Benton Harbor, MI about your
problem. They own Maytag. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whirlpool_Corp.

Paul

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 15:16:48 -0800, Daniel Prince
wrote:

I am having a problem with a Maytag dishwasher. It is covered by a
Maytag extended warranty. It failed on December 22, 2011. It is
still not fixed because the needed part is on backorder until
February 15, 2012.

I am VERY disabled with ME, (Myalgic Encephalomyelitis) Hashimoto's
thyroiditis, neurally mediated hypotension, and orthostatic
intolerance. Washing dishes by hand is very difficult for me.

What is the best way for me to contact someone high up in Maytag who
might be able to do something? Thank you in advance for all
replies.

You can start with their customer service, but then you have to work
up to a supervisor and then a manager, etc. Otherwise, you'd have to
go to corporate headquarters. If you can find out a name of a VP you
may have some luck.

Do you know what the part number is? Chances are it is out of stock
from the local parts depot and the factory, but it may be possible
that the part is sitting in a warehouse in some other part of the
country, or some service tech's van. Someone like repairclinic.com
may have it. It may be common to another brand also. You have to
find someone willing to track it down.

On 1/13/2012 6:16 PM, Daniel Prince wrote:
I am having a problem with a Maytag dishwasher. It is covered by a
Maytag extended warranty. It failed on December 22, 2011. It is
still not fixed because the needed part is on backorder until
February 15, 2012.

I am VERY disabled with ME, (Myalgic Encephalomyelitis) Hashimoto's
thyroiditis, neurally mediated hypotension, and orthostatic
intolerance. Washing dishes by hand is very difficult for me.

What is the best way for me to contact someone high up in Maytag who
might be able to do something? Thank you in advance for all
replies.

Just curious, which appliance superstore did you buy the dishwasher
extended warranty from? Sears, Best Buy, Lowe's, Home Depot?

This situation is why I never never never never never buy ANY extended
warranty from anyone. Once the retailer has your extended warranty
money, you are at THEIR mercy as to how and WHEN the product will be
repaired. That is never acceptable to me.

You didn't mention which part you need but maybe with a little searching
on the net and Visa card in hand, you might find the part you need and
have it in a day or two.

On Jan 14, 1:41*am, Moe Gasser moe.gas...@flatulators-
anonymous.pffft wrote:
On 1/13/2012 6:16 PM, Daniel Prince wrote:

I am having a problem with a Maytag dishwasher. *It is covered by a
Maytag extended warranty. *It failed on December 22, 2011. *It is
still not fixed because the needed part is on backorder until
February 15, 2012.

I am VERY disabled with ME, (Myalgic Encephalomyelitis) Hashimoto's
thyroiditis, neurally mediated hypotension, and orthostatic
intolerance. *Washing dishes by hand is very difficult for me.

What is the best way for me to contact someone high up in Maytag who
might be able to do something? *Thank you in advance for all
replies.

Just curious, which appliance superstore did you buy the dishwasher
extended warranty from? *Sears, Best Buy, Lowe's, Home Depot?

This situation is why I never never never never never buy ANY extended
warranty from anyone. Once the retailer has your extended warranty
money, you are at THEIR mercy as to how and WHEN the product will be
repaired. That is never acceptable to me.

You didn't mention which part you need but maybe with a little searching
on the net and Visa card in hand, you might find the part you need and
have it in a day or two.

Looking for the part online would at least be a very
interesting excercise. If you find it, then you can call
up the retailer you got the warranty from and lean on
them because the part is available.

" wrote in
:

On Jan 14, 1:41*am, Moe Gasser moe.gas...@flatulators-
anonymous.pffft wrote:
On 1/13/2012 6:16 PM, Daniel Prince wrote:

I am having a problem with a Maytag dishwasher. *It is covered by a
Maytag extended warranty. *It failed on December 22, 2011. *It is
still not fixed because the needed part is on backorder until
February 15, 2012.

I am VERY disabled with ME, (Myalgic Encephalomyelitis) Hashimoto's
thyroiditis, neurally mediated hypotension, and orthostatic
intolerance. *Washing dishes by hand is very difficult for me.

What is the best way for me to contact someone high up in Maytag
who might be able to do something? *Thank you in advance for all
replies.

Just curious, which appliance superstore did you buy the dishwasher
extended warranty from? *Sears, Best Buy, Lowe's, Home Depot?

This situation is why I never never never never never buy ANY
extended warranty from anyone. Once the retailer has your extended
warranty money, you are at THEIR mercy as to how and WHEN the product
will be repaired. That is never acceptable to me.

You didn't mention which part you need but maybe with a little
searching on the net and Visa card in hand, you might find the part
you need and have it in a day or two.

Looking for the part online would at least be a very
interesting excercise. If you find it, then you can call
up the retailer you got the warranty from and lean on
them because the part is available.


Interesting approach.

On 1/14/2012 12:53 PM, Red Green wrote:
wrote in
:

On Jan 14, 1:41 am, Moe Gassermoe.gas...@flatulators-
anonymous.pffft wrote:
On 1/13/2012 6:16 PM, Daniel Prince wrote:

I am having a problem with a Maytag dishwasher. It is covered by a
Maytag extended warranty. It failed on December 22, 2011. It is
still not fixed because the needed part is on backorder until
February 15, 2012.

I am VERY disabled with ME, (Myalgic Encephalomyelitis) Hashimoto's
thyroiditis, neurally mediated hypotension, and orthostatic
intolerance. Washing dishes by hand is very difficult for me.

What is the best way for me to contact someone high up in Maytag
who might be able to do something? Thank you in advance for all
replies.

Just curious, which appliance superstore did you buy the dishwasher
extended warranty from? Sears, Best Buy, Lowe's, Home Depot?

This situation is why I never never never never never buy ANY
extended warranty from anyone. Once the retailer has your extended
warranty money, you are at THEIR mercy as to how and WHEN the product
will be repaired. That is never acceptable to me.

You didn't mention which part you need but maybe with a little
searching on the net and Visa card in hand, you might find the part
you need and have it in a day or two.

Looking for the part online would at least be a very
interesting excercise. If you find it, then you can call
up the retailer you got the warranty from and lean on
them because the part is available.


Interesting approach.

Hell, get the model number and the part number and post it here. There
are plenty of us that have nothing better to do than to find a source
for you. Seriously! This group is all about helping others (well when
we aren't arguing about other stuff).

Motion made, and seconded.

I'd call my parts house, and check for the OP.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Tony Miklos" wrote in message
...

Hell, get the model number and the part number and post it here. There
are plenty of us that have nothing better to do than to find a source
for you. Seriously! This group is all about helping others (well when
we aren't arguing about other stuff).

Moe Gasser wrote:

Just curious, which appliance superstore did you buy the dishwasher
extended warranty from? Sears, Best Buy, Lowe's, Home Depot?

We bought the warranty from Maytag because it failed just before the
one year factory warranty expired.
--
When a cat sits in a human's lap both the human and the cat are usually
happy. The human is happy because he thinks the cat is sitting on him/her
because it loves her/him. The cat is happy because it thinks that by sitting
on the human it is dominant over the human.

Tony Miklos wrote:

Hell, get the model number and the part number and post it here. There
are plenty of us that have nothing better to do than to find a source
for you. Seriously! This group is all about helping others

The backordered part is W10218837

http://www.appliancepartspros.com/Ap...?pn_=W10218837

The dishwasher model MDB6701AWWW3. My brother says that he has
checked several online sources and it is backordered at all of them.
--
When a cat sits in a human's lap both the human and the cat are usually
happy. The human is happy because he thinks the cat is sitting on him/her
because it loves her/him. The cat is happy because it thinks that by sitting
on the human it is dominant over the human.

On 1/15/2012 11:16 AM, Daniel Prince wrote:
Tony wrote:

Hell, get the model number and the part number and post it here. There
are plenty of us that have nothing better to do than to find a source
for you. Seriously! This group is all about helping others

The backordered part is W10218837

http://www.appliancepartspros.com/Ap...?pn_=W10218837

The dishwasher model MDB6701AWWW3. My brother says that he has
checked several online sources and it is backordered at all of them.

Here is a "buy it now" one on ebay. You can have it in a couple days.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dishwasher-C...-/160636792828

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 14:43:19 -0500, Tony Miklos
wrote:

On 1/15/2012 11:16 AM, Daniel Prince wrote:
Tony wrote:

Hell, get the model number and the part number and post it here. There
are plenty of us that have nothing better to do than to find a source
for you. Seriously! This group is all about helping others

The backordered part is W10218837

http://www.appliancepartspros.com/Ap...?pn_=W10218837

The dishwasher model MDB6701AWWW3. My brother says that he has
checked several online sources and it is backordered at all of them.

Here is a "buy it now" one on ebay. You can have it in a couple days.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dishwasher-C...-/160636792828


Grab it.

http://www.appliancedepot.com/parts/...w10218837.html
has a used one if interested. Both Sears and Repair Clinic show it as
being backordered though.

On 1/15/2012 5:06 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 14:43:19 -0500, Tony Miklos
wrote:

On 1/15/2012 11:16 AM, Daniel Prince wrote:
Tony wrote:

Hell, get the model number and the part number and post it here. There
are plenty of us that have nothing better to do than to find a source
for you. Seriously! This group is all about helping others

The backordered part is W10218837

http://www.appliancepartspros.com/Ap...?pn_=W10218837

The dishwasher model MDB6701AWWW3. My brother says that he has
checked several online sources and it is backordered at all of them.

Here is a "buy it now" one on ebay. You can have it in a couple days.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dishwasher-C...-/160636792828


Grab it.

I hope he get's it. I see the seller sold 11 of them and this is the
last one left. Even if he looses a little because it's under warranty,
at least when the back ordered part comes in he should get it free to
keep as a spare.

Just called my parts house. None available, factory order, expected date
about Feb 15. Retail about $170.

Wish I could do more for you. I did call, and that's something, I guess.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Daniel Prince" wrote in message
...
Tony Miklos wrote:

Hell, get the model number and the part number and post it here. There
are plenty of us that have nothing better to do than to find a source
for you. Seriously! This group is all about helping others

The backordered part is W10218837

http://www.appliancepartspros.com/Ap...?pn_=W10218837

The dishwasher model MDB6701AWWW3. My brother says that he has
checked several online sources and it is backordered at all of them.
--
When a cat sits in a human's lap both the human and the cat are usually
happy. The human is happy because he thinks the cat is sitting on him/her
because it loves her/him. The cat is happy because it thinks that by
sitting
on the human it is dominant over the human.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Just called my parts house. None available, factory order, expected date
about Feb 15. Retail about $170.


With the part around $ 170 and the ebay part about $ 90, a new dishwasher
from Lowes can be bought for $ 300 to $ 400. Good thing the thing is under
warranty. If not It would be time to buy a new one. They could bring it
out in a couple of days.

Hard to believe it would take 2 months to get a part. They should pull the
part off a new unit and use it if the washer is only a year old. That part
seems to be used on many washers.

I have found it almost useless to repair anything when the parts are as
expensive as they are. If you can do the work and supply the labor you may
come out ok.

On 1/15/2012 11:16 AM, Daniel Prince wrote:
Tony wrote:

Hell, get the model number and the part number and post it here. There
are plenty of us that have nothing better to do than to find a source
for you. Seriously! This group is all about helping others

The backordered part is W10218837

http://www.appliancepartspros.com/Ap...?pn_=W10218837

The dishwasher model MDB6701AWWW3. My brother says that he has
checked several online sources and it is backordered at all of them.

Here is a second place that shows it in stock.

http://appliancemasters.com/zencart/...ducts_id=17425

The service company repaired the dishwasher on Thursday 1/26/12,
exactly five weeks after it failed. The technician showed me a
place on the ribbon cable that connects the control panel to the
control board. He said the traces were burned in one place.

I asked him if it was burned because of excessive voltage. He said,
"No. It just happens sometimes."

I do not think failures like that "just happen." I think they are
caused by poor design and/or poor manufacturing techniques and/or
poor quality parts.

Years ago, we had a garbage disposer which was controlled by a
switch that was combined with a single outlet. That switch was
rated at 10 amps and it failed after about a year. After three of
those switches failed, we replaced it with a 15 amp rated switch
that was not combined with an outlet. The 15 amp rated switch never
failed.

I think that Maytag is using a ribbon cable with conductors that are
too small or has conductors made from the wrong material (aluminum
instead of copper).
--
When a cat sits in a human's lap both the human and the cat are usually
happy. The human is happy because he thinks the cat is sitting on him/her
because it loves her/him. The cat is happy because it thinks that by sitting
on the human it is dominant over the human.

Daniel Prince wrote:

The service company repaired the dishwasher on Thursday 1/26/12,
exactly five weeks after it failed.

On March 24, 2012, the dishwasher failed again. A service person
came out on March 26. He said that it was the control panel again.
That control panel lasted less than two months. This is the third
control panel that has failed in this dishwasher.

I think that Maytag must be using very poor parts, a very poor
design or very poor manufacturing techniques. Control boards should
last MUCH longer than that. I have owned 12 VCR's. Only one of
them
had an electronic failure and it was more than 11 years old when it
failed.
--
When a cat sits in a human's lap both the human and the cat are usually
happy. The human is happy because he thinks the cat is sitting on him/her
because it loves her/him. The cat is happy because it thinks that by sitting
on the human it is dominant over the human.

On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 03:04:52 -0700, Daniel Prince
wrote:

Daniel Prince wrote:

The service company repaired the dishwasher on Thursday 1/26/12,
exactly five weeks after it failed.

On March 24, 2012, the dishwasher failed again. A service person
came out on March 26. He said that it was the control panel again.
That control panel lasted less than two months. This is the third
control panel that has failed in this dishwasher.

I think that Maytag must be using very poor parts, a very poor
design or very poor manufacturing techniques. Control boards should
last MUCH longer than that. I have owned 12 VCR's. Only one of
them
had an electronic failure and it was more than 11 years old when it
failed.

Yes, it should last years. Just in case, though, I'd check my
connections and ground. I'd even use a different breaker. While the
rest of the house may be OK, this is very odd. One failure, stuff
happens. two failures, sounds strange.

As for using poor parts, Maytag would not be in business if they
replaced the control in every dishwasher, every five weeks or so. I'd
consider putting a surge suppressor in line too.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Just in case, though, I'd check my
connections and ground. I'd even use a different breaker. While the
rest of the house may be OK, this is very odd. One failure, stuff
happens. two failures, sounds strange.

This is the third failure for this dishwasher. The previous
dishwasher also had an electronic failure. It was also a Maytag.

I know enough about electricity to know that I should not even
attempt to change what breaker the outlet for the dishwasher is
plugged into.

As for using poor parts, Maytag would not be in business if they
replaced the control in every dishwasher, every five weeks or so. I'd
consider putting a surge suppressor in line too.

We put a surge suppressor on the dishwasher years ago. If I
remember correctly the surge suppressor is rated at 900 joules.
Should we use a surge suppressor with a higher rating?

We live in Los Angles county and do not have much lightning here. We
are a long way from the nearest power substation. I do not think we
get many surges.
--
When a cat sits in a human's lap both the human and the cat are usually
happy. The human is happy because he thinks the cat is sitting on him/her
because it loves her/him. The cat is happy because it thinks that by sitting
on the human it is dominant over the human.

On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:49:36 -0700, Daniel Prince
wrote:


I know enough about electricity to know that I should not even
attempt to change what breaker the outlet for the dishwasher is
plugged into.

Simple enough job if you know what to do. Perhaps a friend can do it
for you. May not be the culprit, but given your frequency of
problems, worth a shot. Check the ground too.





We put a surge suppressor on the dishwasher years ago. If I
remember correctly the surge suppressor is rated at 900 joules.
Should we use a surge suppressor with a higher rating?

We live in Los Angles county and do not have much lightning here. We
are a long way from the nearest power substation. I do not think we
get many surges.

I'm not sure what size you would need. I've read that they do lose
their ability over time if you do get some spikes. I think you were
smart to put it in though.

Daniel Prince wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Just in case, though, I'd check my
connections and ground. I'd even use a different breaker. While the
rest of the house may be OK, this is very odd. One failure, stuff
happens. two failures, sounds strange.

This is the third failure for this dishwasher. The previous
dishwasher also had an electronic failure. It was also a Maytag.

I know enough about electricity to know that I should not even
attempt to change what breaker the outlet for the dishwasher is
plugged into.

As for using poor parts, Maytag would not be in business if they
replaced the control in every dishwasher, every five weeks or so. I'd
consider putting a surge suppressor in line too.

We put a surge suppressor on the dishwasher years ago. If I
remember correctly the surge suppressor is rated at 900 joules.
Should we use a surge suppressor with a higher rating?

We live in Los Angles county and do not have much lightning here. We
are a long way from the nearest power substation. I do not think we
get many surges.

Did the did the suppressor blow out ??? If not, you had no surge. Is it a
three legged suppressor ?

Boards and dishwashers are a bad mix. I'm glad I don't use my dishwasher.

Greg

gregz wrote:

Did the did the suppressor blow out ??? If not, you had no surge.

How can I tell? The suppressor does has a red LED on it. The LED
is lit when the suppressor is plugged in.

Is it a three legged suppressor ?

I do not know what this means. The suppressor has a three prong
plug.

Today I plugged an outlet tester into the dishwasher outlet and it
indicated that the hot and neutral lines are reversed. Could that
be causing the problem?

If I made an appliance that could be damaged by reversed wiring, I
would require all installers and repair people to check the outlet
and sign a card indicating that they had done so. None of the
repair persons have checked the outlet.
--
When a cat sits in a human's lap both the human and the cat are usually
happy. The human is happy because he thinks the cat is sitting on him/her
because it loves her/him. The cat is happy because it thinks that by sitting
on the human it is dominant over the human.

On 3/29/2012 1:50 AM, Daniel Prince wrote:


Today I plugged an outlet tester into the dishwasher outlet and it
indicated that the hot and neutral lines are reversed. Could that
be causing the problem?


Yes. It can also kill someone.

Personally, I'd put the dishwasher outlet on a GFCI breaker.

Hugh Jass wrote:

On 3/29/2012 1:50 AM, Daniel Prince wrote:


Today I plugged an outlet tester into the dishwasher outlet and it
indicated that the hot and neutral lines are reversed. Could that
be causing the problem?


Yes. It can also kill someone.

Personally, I'd put the dishwasher outlet on a GFCI breaker.

I received an email from someone who said these three things:

1. Reversed hot and neutral are a human safety problem. Does not
harm electronics.

2. But then a 900 joules protector (using only 300 joules and never
more than 600) typically makes surge damage easier.

3. He basically said that Maytag had been taken over by Business
school graduates who cut costs and quality to increase short term
profits.

I agree with points one and point three. I do not see how point two
can be true. I think that a surge suppressor works by absorbing the
energy of a surge or spike and converting it into heat. If a surge
suppressor absorbs some energy then there would be less energy
available to damage the electronics.
--
When a cat sits in a human's lap both the human and the cat are usually
happy. The human is happy because he thinks the cat is sitting on him/her
because it loves her/him. The cat is happy because it thinks that by sitting
on the human it is dominant over the human.

On 3/29/2012 4:52 PM, Daniel Prince wrote:
Hugh wrote:

On 3/29/2012 1:50 AM, Daniel Prince wrote:


Today I plugged an outlet tester into the dishwasher outlet and it
indicated that the hot and neutral lines are reversed. Could that
be causing the problem?


Yes. It can also kill someone.

Personally, I'd put the dishwasher outlet on a GFCI breaker.

I received an email from someone who said these three things:

1. Reversed hot and neutral are a human safety problem. Does not
harm electronics.

2. But then a 900 joules protector (using only 300 joules and never
more than 600) typically makes surge damage easier.

3. He basically said that Maytag had been taken over by Business
school graduates who cut costs and quality to increase short term
profits.

I agree with points one and point three. I do not see how point two
can be true. I think that a surge suppressor works by absorbing the
energy of a surge or spike and converting it into heat. If a surge
suppressor absorbs some energy then there would be less energy
available to damage the electronics.

Let me guess - the email came from westom. He is an internet nut that
googles for "surge" to compulsively post his misinformation that plug-in
surge protectors don't work and cause warts. If he had posted here his
misinformation would have been challenged.

Your surge protector has high ratings. For a couple of reasons the
amount of energy that can get to a plug-in protector is surprisingly small.

Neither service panel or plug-in protectors work by absorbing energy.
They do absorb some energy in the process of protecting. Plug-in
protectors work by limiting the voltage from the wires going through the
protector to the ground at the protector. The voltage between the wires
going to the protected equipment is safe for the protected equipment.

--
bud--

On Mar 29, 3:35*am, Hugh Jass wrote:
On 3/29/2012 1:50 AM, Daniel Prince wrote:



Today I plugged an outlet tester into the dishwasher outlet and it
indicated that the hot and neutral lines are reversed. *Could that
be causing the problem?

Yes. It can also kill someone.

Personally, I'd put the dishwasher outlet on a GFCI breaker.

After reading thru this thread, it seems to me that the main problem
is poor design on Whirlpool's controller board. I don't think it's an
environment issue, such as a surge or spike. There's a reson why this
part is failing at such a high rate, so that the part is consistently
on backorder. A lot of failures means a lot of parts being used up.
Companies design new products for revenue generating. Rarely does a
company spend alot of money doing retro-engineering. I've worked at
companies that keep throwing parts at problems, instead of doing root-
cause analysis and fixing the problem once and for all.
Unfortunately, most new products utilize a large degree of old design
parts, and problems follow the parts.

On Mar 29, 6:52 pm, Daniel Prince wrote:
I think that asurgesuppressor works by absorbing the
energy of asurgeor spike and converting it into heat. If asurge
suppressor absorbs some energy then there would be less energy
available to damage the electronics.

bud is paid to promote those myths. That myth provides his
income. He will post nasty because he is paid to lie, disparage,
and promote scams. He posts nothing helpful to your problem. He will
only post mockery and insult - to protect sales of his scam products.
It is his job.

A destructive surge is typically hundreds of thousands of joules. A
near zero 900 joules protector means a $4 power strip with ten cent
protector parts can sell for $40 or $150. Even the cigarette industry
would covet those profit margins. bud will not discuss your damage.
His knowledge of electricity is minimal at best. He cannot post
anything relevant. He is only a sales promoter.

Destructive surges are typically once every seven year. Much less
frequent in your venue. Therefore surges obviously do not explain
your failures. But manufacturing defects - the most common reasons
for appliance failure - are explained by a company that must pay for
so many mergers and acquisitions. Typical of any company that
replaced product people with finance people - such as Maytag.
Multiple dishwasher failures strongly suggest manufacturing defect. A
most important point in that previous post was not in your summary.

Your symptoms are classic of manufacturing defects. Nobody can say
more without details. What specific part was damaged? Most failed
parts have no visual indication. Most appliance repairmen would not
even know how identify a failed part. Your best answer can only
speculate based upon what has changed in Maytag and what typically
causes repeat failures. A google search suggested same.
Manufacturing defects traceable either to a production or a design
problem. Nothing on its power cord (especially not near zero 900
joules) will avert or can eliminate those failures.

Appreciate that events started in the 1990s (in Amana, Maytag &
Whirlpool) explains why you and others are suffering so many
manufacturing defects. Failures that did not exist back when product
people were doing the designing.

On Mar 31, 1:25*am, westom wrote:

The best information on surges and surge protection I have seen is at:
http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/IEEE_Guide.pdf
- "How to protect your house and its contents from lightning: IEEE
guide for surge protection of equipment connected to AC power and
communication circuits" published by the IEEE in 2005 (the IEEE is a
major organization of electrical and electronic engineers).
And also:
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/practiceguides/surgesfnl.pdf
- "NIST recommended practice guide: Surges Happen!: how to protect the
appliances in your home" published by the US National Institute of
Standards and Technology in 2001


* bud is paid to promote those myths. *That myth provides his
income. * *He will post nasty because he is paid to lie, disparage,
and *promote scams. He posts nothing helpful to your problem. *He will
only post mockery and insult - to protect sales of his scam products.
It is his job.

1. If pathetic westom had valid technical arguments he wouldn't have
to lie about me.

2. Westom says I am "nasty" at the same time he calls me a company
stooge.

3. My "insults" and "nasty" come from the IEEE and NIST. Westom is
insulted by facts.


* A destructive surge is typically hundreds of thousands of joules. *A
near zero 900 joules protector means a $4 power strip with ten cent
protector parts can sell for $40 or $150.

Westom can't figure out that, for a couple reasons, only a very
limited energy can reach a plug-in protector. The author of the NIST
surge guide investigated and found that with 10m and longer branch
circuits, and the maximum power line surge that has any reasonable
probability of occurring, the energy at the plug-in protector was a
surprisingly small 35 joules. In 13 of 15 cases it was 1 joule or
less. One of my protectors has 3 MOVs each rated 590 joules, 30,000
surge amps. The OP has 3 MOVs rated 300 joules each

Provide a source for a 590 joule, 30kA surge amp MOV for ten cents.

Even on the internet with 13,492,401 sites by lunatics westom can find
anyone that agrees with him that plug-in protectors do NOT work.

For real science read the IEEE and NIST surge guides. Both say plug-in
protectors are effective.

bud will not discuss your damage.

It has been well covered in a 31 post thread that started in January.
I agree with about everyone it is likely bad design or manufacturing.

--
bud--

I have read that a bad computer power supply can damage other
computer components. Could the dishwasher have a bad power supply
that is damaging the control board? It might be mounted under the
tub where it is difficult for the repair technicians to test or
replace it.
--
When a cat sits in a human's lap both the human and the cat are usually
happy. The human is happy because he thinks the cat is sitting on him/her
because it loves her/him. The cat is happy because it thinks that by sitting
on the human it is dominant over the human.

On Apr 2, 3:26 pm, Daniel Prince wrote:
I have read that a bad computer power supply can damage other
computer components. Could the dishwasher have a bad power supply?
that is damaging the control board?

Routine in all computers. A PSU failure causes other damage when
the supply is designed defectively. A manufacturing defect. Did not
even meet standards found in the original IBM PC.

However, a dishwasher designed by cost controllers may eliminate
that routine protection to cut costs as was explained previously.

Considering the large number of reasons that might cause a failure,
then blaming fewer supply problems would only be speculation. Again,
to have a useful answer requires you to provide hard facts. Such as
the failed item inside that controller. Or numbers using a meter
(taken without removing the supply). Without hard technical facts,
then only speculation is possible. A supply failure is just as likely
as many other manufacturing defects.

On 4/2/2012 1:26 PM, Daniel Prince wrote:
I have read that a bad computer power supply can damage other
computer components. Could the dishwasher have a bad power supply
that is damaging the control board? It might be mounted under the
tub where it is difficult for the repair technicians to test or
replace it.

My guess is that the power supply is part of the control board.

Not being able to get parts suggests short supply caused by many
failures from a design or manufacturing problem. Maybe, if you are
lucky, the manufacturer is taking time to fix the real problem. Then
again, maybe the problem is on the control board and you are replacing
the control panel.

About the only other specific is that traces?ribbon-wire was burned
on/at the control panel. The control panel shouldn't have major current
carrying parts (unless there are other connections to the control panel).

--
bud--

On Apr 3, 1:35*pm, bud-- wrote:
On 4/2/2012 1:26 PM, Daniel Prince wrote:

I have read that a bad computer power supply can damage other
computer components. *Could the dishwasher have a bad power supply
that is damaging the control board? *It might be mounted under the
tub where it is difficult for the repair technicians to test or
replace it.

My guess is that the power supply is part of the control board.

I haven't taken apart modern ones to know for sure, but
that seems like a reasonable guess. Along those lines,
as I pointed out before, it's also possible that there is some
other bad component causing the failures. For example,
if that board drives a solenoid and the solenoid is bad,
drawing excessive current, it could cause the driver on
the board to fail.




Not being able to get parts suggests short supply caused by many
failures from a design or manufacturing problem. Maybe, if you are
lucky, the manufacturer is taking time to fix the real problem. Then
again, maybe the problem is on the control board and you are replacing
the control panel.

About the only other specific is that traces?ribbon-wire was burned
on/at the control panel. The control panel shouldn't have major current
carrying parts (unless there are other connections to the control panel).

--
bud--

I would definitely be looking at the board to see if there are any
indications of which components failed. And it's also possible
that the reversed hot and neutral has something to do with it,
though you would think it would not. I know I recently put in a
furnace and the install instructions stated that it would not
operate with the hot and neutral reversed.

After my last post, I got to thinking about the bigger picture.
Aside from the failure problem, what are the other facts.
I know it's under some kind of warranty. How old is the
machine and how much did it cost? Can you extend the
warranty again?
This might be one of those rare cases where paying for
a yearly warranty plan is worth it.

" wrote:

After my last post, I got to thinking about the bigger picture.
Aside from the failure problem, what are the other facts.
I know it's under some kind of warranty. How old is the
machine and how much did it cost? Can you extend the
warranty again?
This might be one of those rare cases where paying for
a yearly warranty plan is worth it.

We bought the dishwasher on 9/22/09. It cost $529.95 plus tax. It
was repaired under the factory warranty about ten months after we
bought it. (That would have been around July 22, 2010.)

The extended warranty is effective from 06/11/2011 to 06/10/2014.
The dishwasher failed again on 12/22/2011. It was repaired on
01/26/2012. It failed the third time on March 24, 2012. The
repairman said it would take about seven days to get the parts (the
control board and the control panel) and that they would be shipped
to us. We received the control panel a few days ago. We have not
yet received the control board.

The service plan says that they are not obligated to renew the
service plan. Since none of the control boards/control panels have
lasted even 17 months, they would be foolish to renew the service
plan. (The average life span was about 9.66 months.) If Maytag
does not improve the quality of the parts, the dishwasher will
probably fail two more times before the end of the service plan.
--
When a cat sits in a human's lap both the human and the cat are usually
happy. The human is happy because he thinks the cat is sitting on him/her
because it loves her/him. The cat is happy because it thinks that by sitting
on the human it is dominant over the human.

On Apr 4, 4:50*pm, Daniel Prince wrote:
" wrote:
After my last post, I got to thinking about the bigger picture.
Aside from the failure problem, what are the other facts.
I know it's under some kind of warranty. *How old is the
machine and how much did it cost? *Can you extend the
warranty again?
This might be one of those rare cases where paying for
a yearly warranty plan is worth it.

We bought the dishwasher on 9/22/09. *It cost $529.95 plus tax. *It
was repaired under the factory warranty about ten months after we
bought it. *(That would have been around July 22, 2010.)

The extended warranty is effective from 06/11/2011 to 06/10/2014.
The dishwasher failed again on 12/22/2011. *It was repaired on
01/26/2012. *It failed the third time on March 24, 2012. *The
repairman said it would take about seven days to get the parts (the
control board and the control panel) and that they would be shipped
to us. *We received the control panel a few days ago. *We have not
yet received the control board.

The service plan says that they are not obligated to renew the
service plan. *Since none of the control boards/control panels have
lasted even 17 months, they would be foolish to renew the service
plan. *(The average life span was about 9.66 months.) *If Maytag
does not improve the quality of the parts, the dishwasher will
probably fail two more times before the end of the service plan.
--
When a cat sits in a human's lap both the human and the cat are usually
happy. *The human is happy because he thinks the cat is sitting on him/her
because it loves her/him. *The cat is happy because it thinks that by sitting
on the human it is dominant over the human.

maytag today is run by beancounters, who only care about money. sadly
thats typical of most businesses today......... profit first, profit
last, and only profit.

importing parts from china only make things worse

I went thru 4 control panel boards on my whirlpool several years ago.
me and the tech became friends as he endlessely replaced them. one
lasted just a week.

the last board he put in number 4 has been good forever. the tech said
this is a upgraded board that will likely last the life of the
machine. so far he has been correct.

they all looked identical.......

On Apr 4, 4:50*pm, Daniel Prince wrote:
" wrote:
After my last post, I got to thinking about the bigger picture.
Aside from the failure problem, what are the other facts.
I know it's under some kind of warranty. *How old is the
machine and how much did it cost? *Can you extend the
warranty again?
This might be one of those rare cases where paying for
a yearly warranty plan is worth it.

We bought the dishwasher on 9/22/09. *It cost $529.95 plus tax. *It
was repaired under the factory warranty about ten months after we
bought it. *(That would have been around July 22, 2010.)

The extended warranty is effective from 06/11/2011 to 06/10/2014.
The dishwasher failed again on 12/22/2011. *It was repaired on
01/26/2012. *It failed the third time on March 24, 2012. *The
repairman said it would take about seven days to get the parts (the
control board and the control panel) and that they would be shipped
to us. *We received the control panel a few days ago. *We have not
yet received the control board.

The service plan says that they are not obligated to renew the
service plan. *Since none of the control boards/control panels have
lasted even 17 months, they would be foolish to renew the service
plan. *(The average life span was about 9.66 months.) *If Maytag
does not improve the quality of the parts, the dishwasher will
probably fail two more times before the end of the service plan.
--

Well, at least you have two more years. In that time, if it is bad
panels that are the root cause, maybe they will have a solution
and you'll wind up with one that will last. This is one of those
rare cases where your were fortunate to to get the extended
warranty. If it goes out of warranty and the same thing happens
again, I'd assemble all your documentation of what happened
and send it to MAytag customer service. It's possible someone
will decide to do something about it and give you some money
back.

A friend of mine bought two square planters for outside that
are about 3 ft high about 3 years ago that cost $280. They
are cast out of some cement/fiber mix and are falling apart.
Spawling from water getting into the material and freezing
is the obvious source, with large chunks just falling off.
Probably another made in China thing.
He emailed the company and they agreed it wasn't right.
They told him to ship them back and they will refund 100%.
You don't find that often, but it does happen.

On Apr 4, 4:50 pm, Daniel Prince wrote:
Since none of the control boards/control panels have
lasted even 17 months, they would be foolish to renew the service
plan.

The people who renew a service plan have no idea how reality works.
They only know that the rules tell them. If somehow who should know
this stuff does not, then the rules will encourage them to renew your
service plan.

Meanwhile, let’s discuss reality. For example, some of the latest
*failed* parts I analyzed were due to thyristor failure. They could
have used the 'dash 6' parts good for 600 volts. Which all
electronics must withstand without damage. But one device used a
'dash 4' part only good for 400 volts. Another used a 'dash 3' part
good for 200 volts. Why?

Well one thyristor is 13.6 cents for the 'dash 4' part. And 15.8
cents for the 'dash 6' part. Why would they use a cheaper part that
means much higher failures? Both parts work for months without
failure in bench tests. According to a bean counter, the cheaper part
was equivalent. A bean counter saved 1.2 cents by using a part that
means some consumers suffer damage monthly or yearly. Anyone trained
where the work gets done knows the ‘dash 6’ part was required.
Generations of experience and engineering standards said so. But a
bean counter is trained is myths taught in business schools. Cost
controls are why the ‘dash 4’ part gets used. Any why some consumers
suffer so many failures because a product oriented management was
replaced by people with business school grasp of reality.

Would you use the ‘dash 3’ part? Or the ‘dash 6’ part that 100
years of experience says must be used.

Any engineer knows that thyristor must be at least 600 volts so that
relays and pumps driven by 120 VAC do not fail. But a bean counter is
incapable of doing what defines a responsible employee. Also called a
patriot. A patriot worries about the product. A communist worries
about myths on the spread sheets.

Responsible employees, as best we can tell, no longer design Maytag
controllers. Did they use the 'dash 3' part or the 'dash 6' part?
Those who know how things work would ask that question and have an
answer. To have an answer means you have learned numbers printed on
each controller part. Unfortunately, we can only speculate what was
inside your Maytag. Most who fix Maytags would now know a why a ‘dash
3’ and ‘dash 6’ part are relevant to controller failure. They only
replace the entire controller. Never ask why management has created
so many failures.

A warranty will never solve the problem. Just cause you anguish
while management remains in denial. Then blames employees, taxes,
foreign competition, immigrants, the market, and unions for their
diminished profits.

On Apr 6, 10:24*pm, westom wrote:
On Apr 4, 4:50 pm, Daniel Prince wrote:

Since none of the control boards/control panels have
lasted even 17 months, they would be foolish to renew the service
plan.

* The people who renew a service plan have no idea how reality works.
They only know that the rules tell them. *If somehow who should know
this stuff does not, then the rules will encourage them to renew your
service plan.

I don't know what you're saying here. It would seem to me
that if I had an appliance that was only a few years old where control
boards were failing about once a year, that is the appliance where
an extended service contract might make sense. It's a $550
dishwasher. If they charged $50 a year for an extended service
plan, it might be worth it to continue it instead of taking the risk
of another failure and then shelling out $550 for a new one.
They can make that evaluation when the current contract is
up. You don't even know what the price for the service contract
is. I agree, in general, the extended warranties or service
contracts are a bad idea. But this is a case where I'd definitely
want to know the price before I made a decision.




*Meanwhile, let’s discuss reality. *For example, some of the latest
*failed* parts I analyzed were due to thyristor failure. *They could
have used the 'dash 6' parts good for 600 volts. *Which all
electronics must withstand without damage. *But one device used a
'dash 4' part only good for 400 volts. *Another used a 'dash 3' part
good for 200 volts. *Why?

* Well one thyristor is 13.6 cents for the 'dash 4' part. *And 15.8
cents for the 'dash 6' part. *Why would they use a cheaper part that
means much higher failures? *Both parts work for months without
failure in bench tests. *According to a bean counter, the cheaper part
was equivalent.

A bean counter wouldn't even know what a thyristor is, let
alone how they are spec'd. It's true
cost constraints are put on engineers all the time and it may
lead them to use lesser grade components. But they would
have to make that choice. The bean counters could make
the choice to buy a part the engineers spec from an
inferior supplier.

In today's economy to stay in business you have to remain
competitive and that means controlling costs wherever
you can. I highly doubt the bean counters at Maytag are
looking at semiconductor specs. What they are likely
doing is telling engineering that they need to keep
costs down. And if they don't the doors wind up closing
and all the employees lose out. I agree that in many
cases it can lead to products that don't last as long as
they used to. But in the end, who is to blame? These
companies are building products with features and at
price points that we consumers want and buy.



A bean counter saved 1.2 cents by using a part that
means some consumers suffer damage monthly or yearly. *Anyone trained
where the work gets done knows the ‘dash 6’ part was required.
Generations of experience and engineering standards said so. But a
bean counter is trained is myths taught in business schools. *Cost
controls are why the ‘dash 4’ part gets used. *Any why some consumers
suffer so many failures because a product oriented management was
replaced by people with business school grasp of reality.

* Would you use the ‘dash 3’ part? *Or the ‘dash 6’ part that 100
years of experience says must be used.

We have no way of knowing what the root cause of failure
here is.




* Any engineer knows that thyristor must be at least 600 volts so that
relays and pumps driven by 120 VAC do not fail. *But a bean counter is
incapable of doing what defines a responsible employee. *Also called a
patriot. *A patriot worries about the product. *A communist worries
about myths on the spread sheets.

*Responsible employees, as best we can tell, no longer design Maytag
controllers.

Boy, you sure take great leaps.



*Did they use the 'dash 3' part or the 'dash 6' part?
Those who know how things work would ask that question and have an
answer. To have an answer means you have learned numbers printed on
each controller part. Unfortunately, we can only speculate what was
inside your Maytag. *Most who fix Maytags would now know a why a ‘dash
3’ and ‘dash 6’ part are relevant to controller failure. *They only
replace the entire controller. *Never ask why management has created
so many failures.

* A warranty will never solve the problem. *Just cause you anguish
while management remains in denial. Then blames employees, taxes,
foreign competition, immigrants, the market, and unions for their
diminished profits.

The existing warranty could solve the problem for the OP.
It still runs for a couple years and it's possible that if it's
indeed the control board design or components that are
the root cause, they could have boards that last out and
one could be in the DW before the warranty expires.

On Apr 7, 10:15*am, "
wrote:
A bean counter wouldn't even know what a thyristor is, let
alone how they are spec'd. *It's true
cost constraints are put on engineers all the time and it may
lead them to use lesser grade components. *But they would
have to make that choice.

Apparently you don't design things. Bean counters routinely select
the parts in many companies. How does that start? First the CEO
comes from the finance side - a bean counter. Then the designs are
changed / modified to use the 'dash 3' part instead of spending two
pennies more for the 'dash 6' version. This is common in companies
that will start having no profits four and more years later.

Once they start having too many warranty clams, the company then
starts finding reasons to stop honoring the warranty. We all should
have learned this trend even from General Motors. Only question is
how long Maytag may keep honoring the warranty before management
starts inventing excuses - to cut costs.

All traceable to bean counters years earlier who have no idea what
the thyristor is or what it does. But he knows the cheaper part goes
out the door working. Therefore that thyristor was the best part.